What I'd like to see change with the Desert Borderland and Overall WVW — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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What I'd like to see change with the Desert Borderland and Overall WVW

When the Desert Borderland first came it addressed some of the wvw issues but also added some of its own.

The main issue is scale. For a map that serves a player vs player game mode, lengthy periods of time travelling cross map is tedious and repetitive. So to address this, increasing the player count or scaling down the zones that interconnect main objectives would ease this strain (preference on increasing player count). It's almost more competitive to give the defending borderlands players a higher player count than their attackers as a sort of home advantage buff. In this way, defending multiple objectives increases in feasibility. In the current state, stalemate is broken because one side is left to reek havoc on one side while the other occupies the defending server. That isn't rewarding gameplay for attackers and is honestly punishment for good defenders. By increasing the defender player count this would push a welcome (subjective) narrative of attackers loosely joining forces or attacking multiple objectives simultaneously to break through the defenders defense while still be challenged at every step.

What I do like about the Desert Borderland is the aesthetic. The current borderlands (eternal included) could really use an aesthetic update too. This update could introduce a change where each third could tell its own story through its own distinct aesthetic that goes beyond red, blue or green. A server wide vote for residents prior to matching would be used to determine which third/color the winning and second place server will pick. What about relinks? End relinks.

Just consolidate the remaining servers. The chaos that is relinks must be done with. I agree that relinks solved the issue of stacked servers like blackgate jade quarry and to a lesser extent Tarnished coast and continues to break up power servers. However, it also fractures communities. The best way to continue to do one and solve the latter is to give control to the players.
Guilds already have player limits. To stay competitive, guilds have to constantly update rosters to make room for more active players. Compound this behavior with multiple guilds joining together to make a.... "Legion" and these two issues will be rectified. You know what else gets rectified, spies. Get caught siege griefing, flipping tactivators, and you'll be released from the "Legion". Inactive for long periods. Released. There would be enough turnover to keep communities fresh with new players and returning veterans.

TLDR
Increase player count accross the board on redbl. With more players overall for the defenders of redbl. Or decrease the map size
Update the other borderlands aesthetically giving each third/color more diversity and character while retaining the geography.
End relinks. Consolidate servers. Give the WvW population control to the players. With turnaround guided by inactivity and griefing.

Comments

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Increasing player count is not an option.
    Anet is already trying to reduce server load by limiting player count.

    Decreasing map size could work.
    The entire Ruins area takes up 30% of the map for no reason.

    End relinks sure....
    People just server transfer lol.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Decreasing map size could work.
    The entire Ruins area takes up 30% of the map for no reason.

    Scaling the map is not an option either. That's a new map because people arent exactly talking about adding a bush here and there, they are talking about entire redesigns.

    Anet has already changed it as far as it can stretch with DBL 2.0.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    Scaling the map is not an option either. That's a new map because people arent exactly talking about adding a bush here and there, they are talking about entire redesigns.

    Anet has already changed it as far as it can stretch with DBL 2.0.

    But yu know what can be an option?

    Slightly altering the locations of the Keeps into a triangle shape and throwing EBG away.
    Then, implement 3 Alpine Borderlands.

    EBGSucks

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

  • Galmac.4680Galmac.4680 Member ✭✭✭

    Just add a few teleport waypoints here and there :) Perhaps I will go on the desert borderlands then. But at the moment I don't like it (although it is really good looking).

    Praise Joko! And make necros great again!

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    Scaling the map is not an option either. That's a new map because people arent exactly talking about adding a bush here and there, they are talking about entire redesigns.

    Anet has already changed it as far as it can stretch with DBL 2.0.

    But yu know what can be an option?

    Slightly altering the locations of the Keeps into a triangle shape and throwing EBG away.
    Then, implement 3 Alpine Borderlands.

    EBGSucks

    ... thats a new map.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • @tridanite.7641 said:
    The main issue is scale. For a map that serves a player vs player game mode, lengthy periods of time travelling cross map is tedious and repetitive.

    The problem was that the WvW community didn't know what was good for them when they begged for a new map. A sizable chunk of the requests were for a bigger map with more travel time because that's what they had seen in some other games.

    And... Arena Net delivered what they asked for! It probably took even longer to develop because they asked for a bigger map.

    The sad thing is that it was an instant flop. It turn out, that even if it was heavily requested, in practice, most players didn't enjoy the increased downtime. And, hence didn't enjoy a bigger map.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

    I like Desert and play on there when I feel like there might be something to do but most of the time there's no response or interest. Those fast travel tools would be nice but you'll spend all of your time doing house keeping work to be able to use anything because no one else is. Also there's no fast travel to run groups and squads into each other in a place like the ruins which would be one of the more fun places to fight if anyone would go there.

    Since WvW isn't open world and there's no reason to even look at most of the map on any map really, any extended amount of time trying to get back to a fight or to initiate one is going to change your mood about that map. Since WvW isn't open world, there's nothing else to do on the map except to pick a fight and currently on Desert there are no lanes to bring the three sides into a fun area to maintain a fight or a front for a good length of time.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

    Careful to not make assumptions. The travel is localized to the keeps themselves. Not getting to them.

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    Increasing player count is not an option.
    Anet is already trying to reduce server load by limiting player count.

    Decreasing map size could work.
    The entire Ruins area takes up 30% of the map for no reason.

    End relinks sure....
    People just server transfer lol.

    Correct they'd need to get a handle on server load.
    People already server transfer. Except what is different is the reason. I'm specifficaly talking about relinks causing rifts in communities that could establish themselves but instead get torn apart. Had fun playing with these people for 2months? Well hopefully you win the lottery to play with them again or spend money to do so. Neither of those options are positive.

  • alcopaul.2156alcopaul.2156 Member ✭✭✭

    at least desert map is newer than ebg and alpines, which were already there since 2012.

    Your Math Tèacher [MATH]
    Digital Headhuntaz [aBrA]

  • @tridanite.7641 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

    Careful to not make assumptions. The travel is localized to the keeps themselves. Not getting to them.

    That's why you need to keep the shrineS active to your side. Like I said you don't know the map.

    The only thing I see that need to change is if the enemy has all 3 of your shrine they can use the fast travel as well.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:

    @tridanite.7641 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

    Careful to not make assumptions. The travel is localized to the keeps themselves. Not getting to them.

    That's why you need to keep the shrineS active to your side. Like I said you don't know the map.

    The only thing I see that need to change is if the enemy has all 3 of your shrine they can use the fast travel as well.

    This isnt really the issue of the size of DBL though. Its the distance between objectives, the locations of the objectives and the size of objectives that is the core issues. Fast travel over keeps on condition you hold shrines does little for that.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:

    @tridanite.7641 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    Obviously, you do not know the desert map very well because you do not know how to "fast travel" on the Desert Map.
    Fast travel on desert map is very well designed, you have to maintain the shrines to access the fast travel. If you do not know the map works, you got to learn it. not try to make changes to it because you don't know how to travel on it.

    Careful to not make assumptions. The travel is localized to the keeps themselves. Not getting to them.

    That's why you need to keep the shrineS active to your side. Like I said you don't know the map.

    The only thing I see that need to change is if the enemy has all 3 of your shrine they can use the fast travel as well.

    And all the shrine system does is make it easier to avoid coming into contact with enemy players, thus adding to why many people avoid that map. The entire map feels like it's designed to actively aid avoiding player contact.
    Anet should take a long hard look at the activity stats on desert bl in comparison to the others, swallow their pride and delete the thing.

    1 million + WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2021

    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

    We voted too keep it because the devs said if we voted to get rid off it we would never get a new wvw map again.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2021

    But at this point it seams like we never are getting a new map anyway so best would be to remove it and have 3 alpine maps again as they atleast are fun to fight on

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2021

    @Sansar.1302 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

    We voted too keep it because the devs said if we voted to get rid off it we would never get a new wvw map again.

    I voted for it to stay because I like it. At this stage, Devs have many other more important things to do, don't give them more things to worry about.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    there's no fast travel to run groups and squads into each other in a place like the ruins which would be one of the more fun places to fight if anyone would go there.

    DBL ruins are so overstuffed with glitter that the area is prone to going comatose in a fight of any size.
    That was why they disabled the megalazor in the first place.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Celsith.2753Celsith.2753 Member ✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

    It may interest you but the lack of activity in comparison to the other maps clearly shows that no amount of cajoling, begging in team chat, calling people noobs who are 'too afraid of redbl', demanding that people play in a map they don't enjoy, or insisting that every one just needs to, 'learn the map', is going to make players choose to play there.
    Just delete it and help reduce the blood pressure of those three people per server who are screaming in /t every time no one will come help them on their beloved empty map.

    1 million + WvW kills
    Diamond No Life
    [HUNT] Predatory Instinct

  • @Celsith.2753 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

    It may interest you but the lack of activity in comparison to the other maps clearly shows that no amount of cajoling, begging in team chat, calling people noobs who are 'too afraid of redbl', demanding that people play in a map they don't enjoy, or insisting that every one just needs to, 'learn the map', is going to make players choose to play there.
    Just delete it and help reduce the blood pressure of those three people per server who are screaming in /t every time no one will come help them on their beloved empty map.

    Not on my Red Borderland there's plenty of activities. My Redborderland is always awesome, theres always a lot of fights, defending and attacking alike, we have 3 ways fights in Fire and Air keep too. I can always get to where I want in time, and do things I like. Sneaking as an invaders to take the keeps on RedbL is also super fun.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:

    @Celsith.2753 said:

    @SweetPotato.7456 said:
    There are small maps, for instant take SMC and fight on the wall and harassed anyone trying to pass by.
    and There are big maps, more challenges with many ways to travel around. a strong squad that won't have to keep porting back from the spawn, will win on Red Borderland

    BTW: This is a competitive map, knowing the map/terrain wins half the battle. I do not think that asking for the map to be change is fair play.

    ArenaNet gives us choices, big map, small maps, go to the one you like. Red borderland is one of the map that is actually interesting enough to keep me want to go back to WvW no-a-days. every server already become "xx server" no one is interested to defend anything, no one wants to play when there isn't a tag running with a zerg to zerg down everything they see in their path. Everyone has an alt account that they play when one of their account is on low time (no one playing time)

    Please do not destroy what little is left that is interesting for players who like the Red Borderland.

    Learn the map, please do no try to destroy it, it was VOTED to stay as one of the WvW map, it's not hard to travel around it once you know which path to take to go where.

    Thank you.

    It may interest you but the lack of activity in comparison to the other maps clearly shows that no amount of cajoling, begging in team chat, calling people noobs who are 'too afraid of redbl', demanding that people play in a map they don't enjoy, or insisting that every one just needs to, 'learn the map', is going to make players choose to play there.
    Just delete it and help reduce the blood pressure of those three people per server who are screaming in /t every time no one will come help them on their beloved empty map.

    Not on my Red Borderland there's plenty of activities. My Redborderland is always awesome, theres always a lot of fights, defending and attacking alike, we have 3 ways fights in Fire and Air keep too. I can always get to where I want in time, and do things I like. Sneaking as an invaders to take the keeps on RedbL is also super fun.

    What sever are you on? here it is totaly dead and have been for the longest time (Piken)
    Think i can run around there 4 an hour without seeing any one.
    Biggest problem is that every week 1 of 3 servers are missing their home alpine and many then wait so they get home alpine next week.

  • Sylvyn.4750Sylvyn.4750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Celsith.2753 said:
    It may interest you but the lack of activity in comparison to the other maps clearly shows that no amount of cajoling, begging in team chat, calling people noobs who are 'too afraid of redbl', demanding that people play in a map they don't enjoy, or insisting that every one just needs to, 'learn the map', is going to make players choose to play there.
    Just delete it and help reduce the blood pressure of those three people per server who are screaming in /t every time no one will come help them on their beloved empty map.

    Someone posted current stats on this in another thread, and DBL isn't that far off the activity level of ABL...sure a bit less, but not half as much.

  • Sweetpotato. Stop liking your own comments.

  • SweetPotato.7456SweetPotato.7456 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2021

    Sorry, I deleted the post, because it does not contribute to the thread.

  • I love the Desert BL!! But they are such a disadvantage when it's your own bl its impossible to defend things since its so big you cant to places not to mention so many dislike it they refuse to defend it. Since there is no plan on fixing things in wvw until the xpac just remove it and let us have the 3 Alpine Bls back

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    desert border needs to be flattened more. and all "ruins" and this borderlands bloodlust thing needs to get just removed.

    plus, the spawn is just placed the worst way possible. imagine the alpines had their spawn BEHIND the nc ... lmfao, u could never defend garri in time. just freaking trading nc and spawn locations would help desert to be a lot more playable.

    outside of that, DBL isn't that horrible designed. the elite mobs like the wyvern have still no use at all, but yeah, idk.

    if we just upgrade EotM to full map (real map with participation and ppt score contribution), then it'd help to have the players stretched out more also.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Decreasing map size could work.
    The entire Ruins area takes up 30% of the map for no reason.

    Scaling the map is not an option either. That's a new map because people arent exactly talking about adding a bush here and there,

    It's funny you should mention that. I think one reason the red map failed was the collision detection on exposed roots and bushes. Just turn it off, please!

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    It's funny you should mention that. I think one reason the red map failed was the collision detection on exposed roots and bushes. Just turn it off, please!

    Nah no one was tripping over roots and bushes.
    People were getting stuck on stairs and cliff faces.

    The most infamous flight of stairs is the one West of Air Keep, leading up to the North Air Shrine.
    That flight of stairs have so many wonky hit detection yu can auto run and be walking into an invisible wall if yu do not turn yur character at a specific angle.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    They put so much work on revamping desert bl for nothing that no surprise they lost interest in WvW balancing.

    Imagine making a bad map for years, then fixing it for years, just for it to stay unpopular. Just existance of Desert map holds WvW back because all the effort put in it and lot of the HoT tactics, siege and upgrade times being designed around it. There is no way shield gen would exist unless Desert bl didn't have so many impossible-to-reach treb/AC spots. We also went from 5 maps to 3 (both eotm and red bl dead)

    I have some good moments on the map, for example fighting in massive canyons is always entertaining: even on alpine, but frankly HoT balancing was otherwise a mess.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    twitch.tv/ribatime
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~