How long will these classes be MEME GODS? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home PVP

How long will these classes be MEME GODS?

I came back because Shadowlands is awful and like being competitive without worrying about gear disparities. Here Necromancers, Revenants, Mesmers, Guardians all just destroying people, absorbing massive damage, soaking it up, siphoning enough life back to mitigate any damage, massive AOE ground burns, CC, Torment stacking....

It's too much! Classes should be as balanced as possible with Counter Classes, right now these specs are broken! It's not good for the game, its poor design and not good for pvp. Every match is some MEME spec garbage team using OP classes and Specs to circumvent actually playing the game competitively.

I play Range, not Soulbeast or Druid.... I have those available I like playing Ranger, Ranger right now is awful in comparison to these classes, unless I hide in the bushes and run away I will be slaughtered. Why even allow us NON MEME specs the ability to que, so we can be Fodder?

There needs to be some Nerfs and sooner rather than later!

Comments

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:
    I hope this is troll post

    Other than mesmer he's not wrong so prob not a troll.
    Things may be different in plat 2-3 and up but the rest meaning 90% of pvp is dominated by the fotm braindead cheese builds aka core necro,burn guard,trapper dh, sb renegade, and some very cancerous ele builds. Every match u join in gold 3 is 2 guard types aside if not more and the same with necros. I had a plat one match with 6 necros, 4 on one side and two the other and their was still 2 guards as well lmao.
    The balance is a joke right now and if anet showed the statistics on what classes have been most played in last 8 months guaranteed its guards,necros and ren's by a huge margin and ele not far behind. U can defend this gbage all u want but anets had to have noticed that the now tiny population has almost completely jumped to these fotm classes for a reason.

    Ok right. Im main holo. Pls nerf core necro, scourge, burn guard, dh, crev, mirage and condi thief. Ty

    If i play class that is countered by condis, that doesnt mean condi classes should be nerfed.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:
    I hope this is troll post

    Other than mesmer he's not wrong so prob not a troll.
    Things may be different in plat 2-3 and up but the rest meaning 90% of pvp is dominated by the fotm braindead cheese builds aka core necro,burn guard,trapper dh, sb renegade, and some very cancerous ele builds. Every match u join in gold 3 is 2 guard types aside if not more and the same with necros. I had a plat one match with 6 necros, 4 on one side and two the other and their was still 2 guards as well lmao.
    The balance is a joke right now and if anet showed the statistics on what classes have been most played in last 8 months guaranteed its guards,necros and ren's by a huge margin and ele not far behind. U can defend this gbage all u want but anets had to have noticed that the now tiny population has almost completely jumped to these fotm classes for a reason.

    Ok right. Im main holo. Pls nerf core necro, scourge, burn guard, dh, crev, mirage and condi thief. Ty

    If i play class that is countered by condis, that doesnt mean condi classes should be nerfed.

    So ur totally ignoring the fact 90% of classes played in pvp are guard/gh, necro and lastly at slightly lower numbers ren's and else's. There a reason so many playing all ran to these fotm classes. I never said if a class counters u it should be nerfed, I fact I believe that's the cause of most nerf threads ie wars and mesmers rally'ing for teef nerfs when in fact just so happens it counters em. I play warrior as much as thief and see so many war mains asking for thief nerfs simply cuz their countered by thief's blinds.
    I'm saying there's a huge disparity in class representation in favor of these classes for obvious reasons.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shieldbash.5304 said:
    I came back because Shadowlands is awful and like being competitive without worrying about gear disparities. Here Necromancers, Revenants, Mesmers, Guardians all just destroying people, absorbing massive damage, soaking it up, siphoning enough life back to mitigate any damage, massive AOE ground burns, CC, Torment stacking....

    It's too much! Classes should be as balanced as possible with Counter Classes, right now these specs are broken! It's not good for the game, its poor design and not good for pvp. Every match is some MEME spec garbage team using OP classes and Specs to circumvent actually playing the game competitively.

    I play Range, not Soulbeast or Druid.... I have those available I like playing Ranger, Ranger right now is awful in comparison to these classes, unless I hide in the bushes and run away I will be slaughtered. Why even allow us NON MEME specs the ability to que, so we can be Fodder?

    There needs to be some Nerfs and sooner rather rather than later

    At equal skill level while using a ranger, outside of the busted Lich form, in PvP the situation is 50/50. Nerfing things down to a level where they lose to every cat and dog...it's not the way to balance a MMO and guess what would happen to ranger if those professions get nerfed to no threat level...Ranger would be next on the crying list. What people on the forum hate to admit is there something defined as skill level, this is something we should all accept

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2's PvP has become the literal opposite of being competitive.
    If you want to play competitive PvP, even FF14 would be a far better choice.

  • @Shieldbash.5304 said:
    I came back because Shadowlands is awful and like being competitive without worrying about gear disparities. Here Necromancers, Revenants, Mesmers, Guardians all just destroying people, absorbing massive damage, soaking it up, siphoning enough life back to mitigate any damage, massive AOE ground burns, CC, Torment stacking....

    It's too much! Classes should be as balanced as possible with Counter Classes, right now these specs are broken! It's not good for the game, its poor design and not good for pvp. Every match is some MEME spec garbage team using OP classes and Specs to circumvent actually playing the game competitively.

    I play Range, not Soulbeast or Druid.... I have those available I like playing Ranger, Ranger right now is awful in comparison to these classes, unless I hide in the bushes and run away I will be slaughtered. Why even allow us NON MEME specs the ability to que, so we can be Fodder?

    There needs to be some Nerfs and sooner rather than later!

    Just a FYI Gw2 is in a BFA like state(maybe even much worse) regarding pvp balancing direction. I've been playing SL pvp over GW2 mainly nowadays. Even though it's playing with a inferior/different combat system, it certainly in a better state than Gw2 atm, but I don't ever want to hear someone on here use WoW as an outlet for good competative gameplay . Fun fact if you're climbing their ranked stuff (not tournament) on top of gear advantage people run pvp specific addons, that keep track of all CDs used, and trinket(stunbreak), and even some that kinda just play the game for them.

    For gw2 to get back on the right track(even though it's pretty much in a irrecoverable state), Anet would have to return to buffing classes across the board, and actually having some insightful/in-depth care of every class they balance/tune. Though frankly that's never going to happen and you're heading for a train wreck anyways once they release the new E-specs, since we're only going for nerfs. Then people are going to be like "OMG kitten, THESE SPECS ARE SO BUSTED?" :+1:

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2021

    @Shieldbash.5304 said:
    There needs to be some Nerfs and sooner rather than later!

    I want to be absolutely transparent on this topic. Nerfs is what got us into the mess we have now. I would suggest doing what i've done, and look at these problems not from an emotional point of view, but from a logical and mathematical one.

    There is a reason that balance has not been achieved after 7-8 years of constant tweaking, and not just in this game but in all games in history so far. It's because the idea of "balance" is fundamentally misunderstood concept. It is an extremely nuanced area of physics that's been watered down and distorted over many iterations of oversimplification.

    Let's start with the most basic idea here... what does balance actually mean? Would you say that balance of two objects on a scale means it's "balanced?" What happens when you take this logic further and further to it's logical conclusions?

    I fully explain here, what happens when one follows that logic to it's valid conclusion...but to abridge what was said in that comment; balance is just an illusion. Two objects or skills can never be balanced unless they are equal in every way. Making all things equal in a system is what is called "Homogenization," a term that should sound familiar to you because you've heard it in Thermodynamics, and Chemistry class.

    So now take the above logic a step further. If balance is an illusion, then what do changes in that phase space amount to? Does lowering numbers or increasing numbers have any meaningful changes to the system as a whole? In short, changes in the phase space amount to nothing...absolute pointlessness, that any "nerf" you make is just as impactful as any "buff" you make in this system.

    So you realize that perfect balance is meaningless unless all things are completely homogenous...does that mean gw2 can never be balanced? The answer is that it can, and again you have to go into the fields of mathematics and logical analysis and science to understand why. Think back to the word "Homogenization." If making all things equal is one side of a spectrum, what is the opposite of that behavior? What lies on the other side of the spectrum? The opposite is when all things are infinitely different from one another...this is called "Heterogeneity." A system in which the system is defined by it's differentiation to everything else within the system.

    So you start to realize after some thinking about what mathematics, science and logic is trying to tell you about what's happening here in Guild Wars 2's. That not only is it impossible to achieve balance, but that in trying to achieve perfect balance through homogeneity, you sacrifice build diversity, aka heterogeneity...and until all things are infinitely equal, any small miniscule change will be considered the most optimal choice and balance changes become more and more difficult until you reach such a state sound familiar? It's current gw2 state.

    The solution, is that because gw2 is inherently a heterogenous game in design, you should go toward the other direction...balancing for heterogeneity...which is basically just making expanding build diversity. How to do that is tough to understand because build diversity is also a nuanced topic...but it involves knowing a science called complexity theory...which is just studies of non-linear dynamic systems (basically the study of how all systems in the world actually work, including games and behavior of agents playing these games)

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:
    I hope this is troll post

    Other than mesmer he's not wrong so prob not a troll.
    Things may be different in plat 2-3 and up but the rest meaning 90% of pvp is dominated by the fotm braindead cheese builds aka core necro,burn guard,trapper dh, sb renegade, and some very cancerous ele builds. Every match u join in gold 3 is 2 guard types aside if not more and the same with necros. I had a plat one match with 6 necros, 4 on one side and two the other and their was still 2 guards as well lmao.
    The balance is a joke right now and if anet showed the statistics on what classes have been most played in last 8 months guaranteed its guards,necros and ren's by a huge margin and ele not far behind. U can defend this gbage all u want but anets had to have noticed that the now tiny population has almost completely jumped to these fotm classes for a reason.

    Ok right. Im main holo. Pls nerf core necro, scourge, burn guard, dh, crev, mirage and condi thief. Ty

    If i play class that is countered by condis, that doesnt mean condi classes should be nerfed.

    So ur totally ignoring the fact 90% of classes played in pvp are guard/gh, necro and lastly at slightly lower numbers ren's and else's. There a reason so many playing all ran to these fotm classes. I never said if a class counters u it should be nerfed, I fact I believe that's the cause of most nerf threads ie wars and mesmers rally'ing for teef nerfs when in fact just so happens it counters em. I play warrior as much as thief and see so many war mains asking for thief nerfs simply cuz their countered by thief's blinds.
    I'm saying there's a huge disparity in class representation in favor of these classes for obvious reasons.

    Im ignoring the fact that 90% of classes in LOW tier are guard/dh and necro, because p+ should know how to deal with condis at least a bit. Also, there is no much necros and guards in higher tier - there is a lot of revs. Why? Cuz rev counters most popular class - guard. That doesnt mean rev should be nerfed. (Rev should be nerfed but not for the reason of farming guard)

    People ran to guard and necro cuz they are easy af to play - while some people play hard classes and dont perform as well as easy to play classes.

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Before mesmers, rangers and thieves got nerfed they were all memes. No way you can forget condi Mirage, boonbeast, etc. Honestly, Gw2 pvp has been all about memes since HOT.

    Anet will probably keep nerfing but I would rather have them tune up the weak classes and leave everything else be. I'm seeing more lost games cause of player mistakes rather than some OP build completely shredding a team.

    DH, crev, flamethrower scrapper, etc can all be beat with the right counters. They're not OP

  • That would be fine with me, bringing the weaker specs up to par is always better then nerfing the OP ones!

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Of the 4 classes that OP complains about, the only one that Ranger should legitimately struggle playing into is Revenant.

    "How long will these classes be meme gods" -> proceeds to cite mesmer. This should be a sign of the quality of debate here.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Players will always complain about the most irrelevant of things even in a perfect balance and no matter how hard you try to explain it, you'll be pointed at with the same blame.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 16, 2021

    @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    It's all fun and games, but let's not forget about the most OP class! Nerf teeef! Thank you!

    The only post that matters. Gimme that sweet, sweet sandbag class.

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Players will always complain about the most irrelevant of things even in a perfect balance and no matter how hard you try to explain it, you'll be pointed at with the same blame.

    Not only that, no matter how effective their complaining is, there will always be people that lose to the watered down, nerfed version and continue to complain about it, and people that continue to make even the most toothpick builds look strong by their smart play.

    There will never be consensus or complete balance, especially if EoD is adding new class types to the mix.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • @Shao.7236 said:
    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Players will always complain about the most irrelevant of things even in a perfect balance and no matter how hard you try to explain it, you'll be pointed at with the same blame.

    Yep. Even in perfect homogenous state, there are always variables, that are outside of the game that aren't balanced, and this is just a consequence of living in a Heterogenous world governed by these physical laws. One would have to break fundamental laws of physics to get to such a state. This is also one reason why it's in gw2's favor to balance towards heterogeneity... it's like playing to it's strengths rather then trying to fight against them.