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Price fixing in Market Mystic Coins

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  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I think it's fine.
    It's a mostly player driven economy and thus shouldn't be artificially restrained.

    It would have been a "mostly player driven economy" if the supply was not artificially restrained by Anet.

    The restraints, such as they are, are not artificial.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Mystic coins have deflated and inflated between 90s and 2g since I started playing. It isn't fixed. It changes based on demand.

    While there are indeed some shortterm dips and spikes in the MC price, the overall longterm trend is visibly upward. It's not level. And before you say "inflation", i'll add that this trend is also upward if you compare it to the market as a whole. There's very, very few commodities on the market with such a longterm steady one-direction trend.

    Assuming I would claim something as stupid as "inflation" as a counter argument when my first argument is good enough. Long term is visibly upward because you're only concerned when it goes up. I've seen it go from 3g back down 90s during PoF because not introducing legendaries. That changed when they continued releasing one every Lv4 episode.

    "Demand" is my argument. Since Anet won't change how to get mystic coins beyond the weekly vendors and login persistence of players, demand is the only leftover factor that will make the prices go up.

    So far, Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 3845 Gold to craft!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set, Runic Armor, or Icebrood Infusion.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:
    When I started this game as a newbie, everything in the game overwhelmed me... Every single drop from monsters seemed like they could be a potential rare drop. Including mystic coins... Mat storage limit was 250. I didn't know what to do with mystic coins and yet I was not willing to sell them on tp coz compared to other materials, the accumulation was slow low... after a long time, I got to know about legendaries so I started hoarding it even when it exceeded 250 , I bought mat storage expansion and continued collecting clovers and coins. But I'm not interested in gold at all and definitely not interested in buying or selling anything on tp. Then it took a while to craft my legendary kudzu. This I believe is the mentality of a new casual player...

    The point I'm trying to explain here is new players are not that much interested in gold and trading post. They don't sell mystic coins unless their mat storage fills up (even then, they might not sell). So don't expect the supply from new players to compensate the demand for mystic coins.

    If u want mystic coin prices to stabilize or get enough for your needs, only way is anet should introduce a new source for mystic coins (coz wvw, cm fractals(always gated with 4k ufe) are not too friendly for average players)

    Start new groups and learn the cm content?

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    Mystic coins have deflated and inflated between 90s and 2g since I started playing. It isn't fixed. It changes based on demand.

    While there are indeed some shortterm dips and spikes in the MC price, the overall longterm trend is visibly upward. It's not level. And before you say "inflation", i'll add that this trend is also upward if you compare it to the market as a whole. There's very, very few commodities on the market with such a longterm steady one-direction trend.

    "Demand" is my argument. Since Anet won't change how to get mystic coins beyond the weekly vendors and login persistence of players, demand is the only leftover factor that will make the prices go up.

    You forget about the 24-30 available from WvW each month, and the 28-31 available from the LLA each month.

    I believe that brings your potential each month to around 75. 🙂

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    I have some coins to sell - I keep hoping the price will go up. There is nothing I really need them for, I am glad for the free money B)

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tukaram.8256 said:
    I have some coins to sell - I keep hoping the price will go up. There is nothing I really need them for, I am glad for the free money B)

    Just the rise from 1.5 gold to 2 gold increased the value of the WvW skirmish track by 3 gold. (From 9 up to 12 gold just from the coins)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • lol, not a demand and supply issue.....
    Many people need/want them, few are available. How is that no a demand and supply issue.
    If you can't afford MC, you won't have a legendary weapon. It's that easy.
    Are you guys the first day on this planet?

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MattDu.7123 said:

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    We don't come here for a level playing field

    And Sorry, I can't let that slide ;) Yes we do, that's why everyone gets upset when they put a pay to win feature into any multiplayer game and the PVP/WvW players want to nerf every profession but their own

    off topic, how do I do the quote bit at the bottom, I like that

    I think its in the settings somewhere. I only see it on a desktop, it doesn't show up on my mobile phone. I'm having a hard time replying to your previous posts. Can't find them 😕 Fair point on the level playing field comment. So annoying that I can't find your previous comment. You posted good info about MC prices...

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • I sell all my coins so I'm thrilled with the price ¯_(ツ)_/¯ without it being the way it is, my gold per month would be almost non existent XD

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kurrilino.2706 said:
    lol, not a demand and supply issue.....
    Many people need/want them, few are available. How is that no a demand and supply issue.
    If you can't afford MC, you won't have a legendary weapon. It's that easy.
    Are you guys the first day on this planet?

    I guess people would just log in daily, do the Ley Line anomaly daily, and maybe do WvW to amass up to 70 ish per day if I couldn’t afford them.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 22, 2021

    @Kurrilino.2706 said:
    lol, not a demand and supply issue.....
    Many people need/want them, few are available. How is that no a demand and supply issue.
    If you can't afford MC, you won't have a legendary weapon. It's that easy.
    Are you guys the first day on this planet?

    "If you can't afford MC, you won't have a legendary weapon. It's that easy."

    I made a leggo (to sell) with a pile of Clovers I obtained directly without any Mystic Coins. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PvE players are absolutely swimming in loot, you can afford it.

    Or you could just… stockpile your login rewards and do the Leyline Guy once a day.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kurrilino.2706 said:
    lol, not a demand and supply issue.....
    Many people need/want them, few are available. How is that no a demand and supply issue.

    You LITERALLY just answered your own question ... they are available for purchase to the people that want them. I mean, let's flip that around ... how IS that a demand and supply issue?

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:
    When I started this game as a newbie, everything in the game overwhelmed me... Every single drop from monsters seemed like they could be a potential rare drop. Including mystic coins... Mat storage limit was 250. I didn't know what to do with mystic coins and yet I was not willing to sell them on tp coz compared to other materials, the accumulation was slow low... after a long time, I got to know about legendaries so I started hoarding it even when it exceeded 250 , I bought mat storage expansion and continued collecting clovers and coins. But I'm not interested in gold at all and definitely not interested in buying or selling anything on tp. Then it took a while to craft my legendary kudzu. This I believe is the mentality of a new casual player...

    The point I'm trying to explain here is new players are not that much interested in gold and trading post. They don't sell mystic coins unless their mat storage fills up (even then, they might not sell). So don't expect the supply from new players to compensate the demand for mystic coins.

    If u want mystic coin prices to stabilize or get enough for your needs, only way is anet should introduce a new source for mystic coins (coz wvw, cm fractals(always gated with 4k ufe) are not too friendly for average players)

    Start new groups and learn the cm content?

    I don't think a new player or casual will often do that or it's easy for them... My point is whether new player be a source to compensate the demand for mystic coins... And yes of course if you want extra coins yourself, u gotta learn cm content but that's not gonna bring down the mc price . Idk 😒

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make multiple free accounts, log in daily, get 20 mcs per account per month. STONKS

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Make multiple free accounts, log in daily, get 20 mcs per account per month. STONKS

    Free accounts don't get login rewards. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Login_rewards

    My mistake, then

  • Another point to add to this ridiculous argument is that you can get 7 mystic clovers every 28 days by simply logging into the game. It is very easy to accumulate the necessary mystic clovers for creating a legendary.

    Also, is anyone going to consider that maybe people are taking a break from the game until the expac drops because Champions story is very dry and DRMs are not fun, which leads to less daily logins and as a result, less mystic coins to sell to the legendary farmers?

  • SASHI.7260SASHI.7260 Member ✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    I like how

    1) Some people not even using the Trading System of the game.
    2) Hoards a majority of the mystic coin market.
    3) Goes into Mail Trading over a 3rd party communication line using MC as major currency.
    4) Inflates the prices so much by limiting the amount in the trading post (as seen on the statistics from gw2bltc - https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19976-Mystic-Coin at 920K Demand over 31K supply as of this posting) because why would I sell it over the TP when I can use it as a conversion method to get other stuffs over a 3rd party communication line (i.e Discord, Reddit) without paying for taxes.
    5) Makes a gigantic WALL @ 2g flat (444K buy order - already half of the demand and was originally at 1.8g but well, gotta inflate those riches) by using the same funds obtained from said 3rd party communication line to make it more expensive over said 3rd party communication line.

    and is still NOT Price Fixing at this point.

    But hey! According to ya savvy economist on this thread, Its simply the basic law of supply and demand right? nothing wrong with it. It's simply the flow on the price. It will always go up when demand goes up.

    Edit : Added a small set of texts somewhere

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Will.9785 said:
    I agree that something needs to be done. Its blatant market manipulation by 1 or 2 guilds with very rich players (i.e. hundreds of thousands of gold).

    This is harmful to the game in the long run. A new player would instantly be turned off by this if they wanted to go for a legendary. It puts what is already a daunting task for many players even further out of reach. Many may not find it worth the effort and leave the game. People need long term goals like this to stay invested in the game but they need to be reasonably within reach. The carrot on the stick approach only works if the person chasing the carrot actually believes they can get it.

    A price of 2-3 gold is not fine. You need around 500 for gen 2 legendaries. That's over 1k gold JUST for the coins.

    Even if you feel like 2-3 gold is fine, at what point does it start to become a problem? Because it can/will reach 3-5 gold before you know it given the manipulation we are seeing right now.

    The whales are trading in legendary weapons. That's their currency. So mystic coin price will be affected by that.
    The mystic coin price is also affected because it's a store of value. Why hold gold? It's a garbage currency.
    Supply of mystic coins is limited, as others have said, so it's price shouldn't fluctuate with market whims.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • @Svarty.8019 said:

    The whales are trading in legendary weapons. That's their currency. So mystic coin price will be affected by that.
    The mystic coin price is also affected because it's a store of value. Why hold gold? It's a garbage currency.
    Supply of mystic coins is limited, as others have said, so it's price shouldn't fluctuate with market whims.

    From what I noticed in the majority of their posts whales mainly trade in mystic coin. They only trade legendaries and crafting materials if the price of the item is sky high(like chak infusion). Gold is a garbage currency? Did they trade their legendaries for mystic coins in the tp when they tanked the price? Whales also hold a ton of gold but mainly trade on other things because of the mailing restrictions.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The whales are trading in legendary weapons.

    ?? m coins needed ONLY for T2 leg weapons, but T2 is acc bound weapons ..
    On T1 you not need any m coins, only 77 m clover that we get enough from wvw/pvp tracks and dayli logins.

    The mystic coin price is also affected because it's a store of value. Why hold gold? It's a garbage currency.

    "hold"? for that purpose? People who play not hold, they spend for many items.

    Supply of mystic coins is limited

    Supply of mystic coins is unlimited. Each day we have wave of dayli logins and drops from cms fractals ..

    as others have said, so it's price shouldn't fluctuate with market whims.

    the price is not "big" now. I don't see any panic if I need buy few stacks.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Chaos.7614Chaos.7614 Member ✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    The whales are trading in legendary weapons.

    ?? m coins needed ONLY for T2 leg weapons, but T2 is acc bound weapons ..

    They trade in gen1 legendaries obviously... MCs are used for clovers, so they are linked in price.

    On T1 you not need any m coins, only 77 m clover that we get enough from wvw/pvp tracks and dayli logins.

    Maybe for you. You need to wait almost a year for logins alone for 77 clovers, and playing PvE only means you either craft clovers directly or farm Drizzlewood for a long time. That means plenty of players use MCs for clover creation.

    The mystic coin price is also affected because it's a store of value. Why hold gold? It's a garbage currency.

    "hold"? for that purpose? People who play not hold, they spend for many items.

    We are entering a inflationary economy in which the value of materials is increasing with no comparable gold farms. That's why he says gold is garbage.

    Supply of mystic coins is limited

    Supply of mystic coins is unlimited. Each day we have wave of dayli logins and drops from cms fractals ..

    Extremely wrong. If we go by your logic, every material in the game is unlimited because you can farm it in some way over time. Supply is determined by how much is being provided on the TP; if it all gets bought out and everyone hoards, supply shrinks. Login rewards and CMs (which very few players do compared to total playerbase) are insufficient to meet demand. This is why that wall hasn't been taken down - the playerbase isn't generating enough MCs to offset demand and the barons aren't willing to sell because their store of value is propped up by that wall.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Chaos.7614 said:
    We are entering a deflationary economy in which the value of materials is increasing with no comparable gold farms. That's why he says gold is garbage.

    Really? When exactly will this start? If you cared to check, most items are on an all-time low. The exception being items which are required for new collections, which increase due to new demand or are limited via time gates in acquisition.

    Which is also why Mystic Coin prices can increase since the end products, legendary T1 weapons, are based to the most extent on 3 resources:

    • T6 materials (at an all-time low as mentioned)
    • precursor (again most are at all-time lows due to exotics being cheap)
    • Mystic Coins (the only resource which is gated and can't be farmed)

    So in order to keep legendary T1 weapons at a similar price, Mystic Coins can rise. Which only offsets the cost to a certain extent, given legendary T1 weapons are also at an all-time low price wise. Which makes this entire complaint even funnier, given currently T1 legendary weapons are the cheapest they have ever been both in crafting as well as purchasing, yet somehow players find ways to complain.

    Going to repeat this because I know some are going to overread it:
    It is the cheapest it has EVER been to craft T1 legendary items, even at the current higher Mystic Coin cost.

    The area where this does not hold true are items where the total Mystic Coins cost is significantly higher value wise than the other materials (T2 weapons, trinkets, etc.). Even with these items the price so far has held steady and not increased past past peaks. Once that happens to a significant extent, we can talk again.

    @Chaos.7614 said:
    This is why that wall hasn't been taken down - the playerbase isn't generating enough MCs to offset demand and the barons aren't willing to sell because their store of value is propped up by that wall.

    The player base could very well be generating enough supply, the demand on the trading post simply grows faster than the supply provided to the TP, especially since not all in-game supply lands on the trading post. Which was actually visible in the first few days of the 2 gold wall when it melted daily by 20-30,000 buy orders. Unfortunately as players started hoarding again, this trend did not continue. That does not tell us that the existing amount of Mystic Coins is insufficient or that the generation into the game needs to increase.

    In fact the amount of Mystic Coins being traded on the TP has continually increased over the last months/years while the listed supply has remained mostly the same.

    As to what @SASHI.7260 mentioned for players generating out of game gold. True, that is likely happening but is also limited in how much earnings it can generate given items in the gray markets are traded at 92.5% of TP value on average, splitting the gain of bypassing the 15% tax between buyer and seller. So it is not as though players can infinitely buy up Mystic Coins. They also do not have to. All it takes is finding the price point where the melt of the demand can be offset without to much loss, while covering the losses with the 7.5% out of game gain. Until more players start hoarding again.

    The rest is simply conversion into a currency used out of game and hoarding of gold in form of safe assets. In fact from a trader perspective, having a less volatile Mystic Coin price is beneficial. It is both very annoying and dangerous to deal with a highly volatile currency. Mystic Coins to traders are a currency with which they work with. Having it increase or decrease in value makes trading more difficult.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Chaos.7614 said:
    They trade in gen1 legendaries obviously...

    so what the point in shadow market for mc if you can buy any T1 wep on TP without any risk?
    But imagine, whaty no any risk. So seller say price in mc count. Buyer go on TP and look how much coast thats. If is cheaper - buy mc from TP, nop mater the price, and make change. If mc coast more, buyer buy t1 wep form TP. easy. I don see only what benefits have seller ? Try sell for less price that on TP?

    MCs are used for clovers, so they are linked in price.

    for people who play and craft for himself like me, they not use mc's fro clovers. I have mostly all T1 weapons. No MC's used. Also have 1k clover in bank.

    Maybe for you. You need to wait almost a year for logins alone for 77 clovers

    yes .. this is MMO game. People already play it more than 8 years. If someone want per one or few weeks craft all leg weapons - let him pay for that.

    We are entering a deflationary economy in which the value of materials is increasing with no comparable gold farms. That's why he says gold is garbage.

    so if 1 ms = 1 gold, is ok, if 1 MS = 5 gold, gold is garbage? No :) it works if another way:)

    Extremely wrong. If we go by your logic, every material in the game is unlimited because you can farm it in some way over time.

    yes. every material in the game is unlimited

    Supply is determined by how much is being provided on the TP

    not supply, one of main values is price. I have more that 2 stack MC and what sell it. But the current price is cheap for my vision.
    So no matter how much MCs ppl get MC. If price small - is stay on hands.

    This is why that wall hasn't been taken down - the playerbase isn't generating enough MCs to offset demand and the barons aren't willing to sell because their store of value is propped up by that wall.

    The playerbase generating enough MCs. Ofc if you ready today pay less that 600 gold for stack. I don't see reason to panic if stack MC; prcie is 2000 gold.

    the playerbase isn't generating enough MCs if person what spend small gold value. But why we should care? leg one of top content. So get gold and by if want.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SASHI.7260 said:
    I like how

    1) Some people not even using the Trading System of the game.
    2) Hoards a majority of the mystic coin market.
    3) Goes into Mail Trading over a 3rd party communication line using MC as major currency.
    4) Inflates the prices so much by limiting the amount in the trading post (as seen on the statistics from gw2bltc - https://www.gw2bltc.com/en/item/19976-Mystic-Coin at 920K Demand over 31K supply as of this posting) because why would I sell it over the TP when I can use it as a conversion method to get other stuffs over a 3rd party communication line (i.e Discord, Reddit) without paying for taxes.
    5) Makes a gigantic WALL @ 2g flat (444K buy order - already half of the demand and was originally at 1.8g but well, gotta inflate those riches) by using the same funds obtained from said 3rd party communication line to make it more expensive over said 3rd party communication line.

    and is still NOT Price Fixing at this point.

    But hey! According to ya savvy economist on this thread, Its simply the basic law of supply and demand right? nothing wrong with it. It's simply the flow on the price. It will always go up when demand goes up.

    Edit : Added a small set of texts somewhere

    Because supply and demand is a much simpler explanation for the rise in cost. And most of us believe that the simplest reason is the most logical.

    Legendary weapons prior to the armory announcement were on a single character only. Meaning that if you had Eternity you could only have the actual Twilight greatsword on one character, even though greatsword is a meta weapon on a number of classes.

    Also, it's not expensive or complicated to change stats on ascended gear and most people don't change their build multiple times in a short period of time.

    So most players don't currently go for legendary weapons unless for the cosmetic due to the above.

    With the announcement of the legendary armory, more players are interested in making a legendary as it will be usable on different classes. So demand went up for mystic coins.

    ANet has not increased the supply of them.

    Meaning that over time, the price was bound to increase to the new equilibrium price.

    ANet does have to be careful with anything that would lower the cost of mystic coins due to the hoarding tendencies of players. They increase the supply too much in an effort to lower the price and players may mass sell off their coins in a race to get the most from it before it hits its new low. Tanking the market for mystic coins which will do who knows what to the other markets as the crash may increase demand for things the mystic coin is used for, especially in large quantities. If they go after the items the mystic coin uses and make them less desirable, that would make players mad who made the item for how it was and may be upset that that was changed. So that's not the way that ANet is likely to go if they feel the cost of the coin on the trading post is too high.

    No one has given any proof that the coins were purchased by players who had nefarious reasons for buying them and not for actual usage or even investment. Someone just getting into the game, I'd say hold onto some mystic coins and possibly even purchase some (for those asking for things that hold value) even if it's not something you'll ever use, the price has been slowly trending up over the years and therefore a purchase today would be much more valuable in a few years when a new player would need gold to buy things they do want if they don't need the mystic coins themselves. I for one hold onto 250 and only dip below when I need the coins for something.

    Most players don't use a third party site for selling their coins or buying items. I know I don't. If an item isn't on the trading post, then oh well. I don't personally want to risk getting a bad middle man and be out my coins and not get the item I want. Yes, those communities do punish and ostracize those who scam others, but unless they've been discovered, they could still be there and that's not something I want to risk.

    Plus, I know the trading post tax is there for a good reason - a gold sink to help keep inflation down to a minimum.

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    comparing the timegated strictly one per day T7 crafting materials and mystic coins, it seems mystic coins price is justified to some extent.
    looking at gw2spidey.net, mystic coin price jumped to 1.83gold on jun 15 2020 jumped up 20 silver with huge volume of buy orders and the buy orders keeps increasing rapidly but the sell orders volume is stagnant(from nov 9 2020 to present day)
    looking at timegated strictly one per day t7 mats,
    Spiritwood plank -> sell orders exceed the buy orders by almost 2x
    Deldrimor steel ingot -> meeting the supply demand scale and sometimes sell orders exceeding buy orders, with one exception around may 11 2020
    Elonian leather square -> unknown spike around may 18 2020 for buy orers otherwise it somehow balances the scale
    Bolt of damask -> the sell orders try to keep up with buy orders but buy orders are higher always..(do ppl play light armor profession more ? idk)

    what really confuses me is that, even though t7 mats are strictly one per day timegated(rarely u get some from some chest - not guaranteed like mystic coins when u do CMs) why are their sell orders volume is atleast acceptable level when compared to mystic coins which makes me think are the buyers keep buying them and just deleting them? or place a buy order for 200k+ mystic coins and delete gw2 account on the same day?(not emphasizing on the last paragraph.. pls ignore.. its just not up for debate X) )

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crystal Paladin.3871 said:
    comparing the timegated strictly one per day T7 crafting materials and mystic coins, it seems mystic coins price is justified to some extent.
    looking at gw2spidey.net, mystic coin price jumped to 1.83gold on jun 15 2020 jumped up 20 silver with huge volume of buy orders and the buy orders keeps increasing rapidly but the sell orders volume is stagnant(from nov 9 2020 to present day)
    looking at timegated strictly one per day t7 mats,
    Spiritwood plank -> sell orders exceed the buy orders by almost 2x
    Deldrimor steel ingot -> meeting the supply demand scale and sometimes sell orders exceeding buy orders, with one exception around may 11 2020
    Elonian leather square -> unknown spike around may 18 2020 for buy orers otherwise it somehow balances the scale
    Bolt of damask -> the sell orders try to keep up with buy orders but buy orders are higher always..(do ppl play light armor profession more ? idk)

    what really confuses me is that, even though t7 mats are strictly one per day timegated(rarely u get some from some chest - not guaranteed like mystic coins when u do CMs) why are their sell orders volume is atleast acceptable level when compared to mystic coins which makes me think are the buyers keep buying them and just deleting them? or place a buy order for 200k+ mystic coins and delete gw2 account on the same day?

    Players hoard mystic coins.

    Players don't typically hoard the other time gated materials.

    Think of hoarding mystic coins like having some stock. People want to sell at the max price. If the price of a stock is generally still rising, most people won't sell. But once it reaches what could be a peak or once it starts to fall, people will start to sell it.

    The same is likely happening with mystic coins. Players don't want to sell their hoard now if in a year, the cost will be say 2 gold, 50 silver.

  • They won't do anything. ANET wants you to buy more accounts for log in rewards which makes them money and looks good on the books for active accounts xD

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    They won't do anything. ANET wants you to buy more accounts for log in rewards which makes them money and looks good on the books for active accounts xD

    Well, if there is a reason Anet won't do anything, it's because this isn't a problem in the first place. That logic doesn't even make sense because they give MC's away for nothing for just logging in ... if the reason Anet won't do anything is because they want revenue, they WOULDN'T be giving these away on logging in to begin with.

    Let's put it this way ...it's about $50 to buy a new account ... right now that's just shy of 1400G on the exchange ... so almost 700 MC's ... anyone that is simply buying a second account just to get MC's is waiting 3 years for a break even on their investment with a daily log in and year to get enough MC's to make a legendary. In otherwords ... that's kind of a dumb way to go about buying your way into MC's.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    It’s currently $30 right now although players can wait until the 50% off sales to get them cheaper. I bought multiple copies of the game from the Amazon marketplace for $13 about five years ago. This was back when there were still physical copies.

    You also need to factor in all of the other ways that a new account can help you earn profit. Laurels being a very low effort way as you can buy the material bags with them for quick gold. Players can also get into what’s left of ascended material crafting and do the daily refinement for whatever is still profitable.

    I’m sure someone could go and do the math and would find that the break even for buying a new account is certainly still under a year. Alt accounts have been the primary way that I earn gold in this game as I couldn’t be bothered to grind for gold. They are still a very viable way to obtain mystic coins.

    Edit:

    I did some rough math using T6 bags in exchange for laurels. A player can earn just shy of 61 gold per account every 28 days from login rewards alone. This comes to about 4.5 to 9.5 months, depending on whether they wait for a sale or not, until they break even.

    This time can be shortened further with ascended crafting, home instance farming, charged quartz, etc. I would take into account how much time it takes to do those activities versus spending that time to grind through other farms.

  • It's blatant market manipulation.

    High wealth individuals are propping up the market price of MCs to fuel RMT trading with gold sellers.

    I'm frankly amazed Anet are not doing anything. I've heard multiple rumours of people who do nothing but flip items and sell stacks of MC to RMTs for real world $$.

  • KelyNeli.4516KelyNeli.4516 Member ✭✭✭

    I dont think you could manipulate the market so aggressively.
    The cause of this is more trivial. There are less and less newbie players selling their coins and a lot of more advanced ones who got ascended gear and try to make legendary eq.

  • SASHI.7260SASHI.7260 Member ✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Seera.5916 said:
    Where is the proof that it's not simple supply and demand?

    Just look at the statistics and that gigantic wall for the Mystic Coin (I already provided the link on my previous comment). It's not hard to see. Especially if you are a BIT aware on whats happening outside of the Trading post (such as on reddit and discords).

    Someone went mad cause they got banned on the Trading Discord for RMT that they sold 32+ Chak Egg Sac at max gold value just to get enough liquid gold to put a giant wall on Mystic Coin just to kitten the market. Now said WALL keeps moving from 1.8g to 2.0g because of that trend. (Obviously you would defend that "How I know its not just random people but only one person? Can you show proof?" and my answer to this one is simple, I do not have. Just numbers to look at.)

    The price on Mystic Coins at that time was floating at 1.5-1.7 per piece. Ever since that wall came up. it went from 1.8 to 2.0g in just a span of like what? 3-4 months? And now it fixed itself at above 2.0g since there are 3 sets of walls preventing it to go down (444,732 on 2g, 17,554 on 2g5c, 89,988 at 2g,10c)

    Tell me if that is NOT market manipulation (Obviously me pointing at the fact that people erect WALLS of buy order that is not feasible by the market to overcome based on the supply and demand statistics). Or are you implying that hoarding and market manipulation is supply and demand?

    If you really want a theoretical / speculative answer then this manipulation is directly involved with Legendary Armory since those rich people who only trade outside of the Trading Post started hoarding legendary weapons. How to hoard a lot more? Simple, inflate the currency they are using (Mystic Coin) since by doing that, they could pay LESS Mystic Coin for 1 Legendary Weapon (only at most around 900 MC per Legendary Weapon)

    This would ALL be avoided for years if Player Trading via Mail/Guild Bank was NOT ALLOWED at the very start. There is a reason why Player Trading was not implemented here and there is a reason why TP has a 5% posting fee and 10% selling fee. And that is to avoid this very incident.

    Edit: Woops. Did not know that would BOLD the letters up

  • @Vilin.8056 said:

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Vilin.8056 said:
    One thing to consider with with Mystic Coin price hikes is that it deals a blow to all new and developing Guild Halls which still require many hundreds of coins to complete several essential upgrades, especially for WvW enhancements, while things gonna get worse as time pass by.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_Enhancements#List_of_guild_enhancements
    no any mystic coins

    Hopefully we could find an alternative to these requirements.

    let imagine that they are .. 100 mc? 200 mc? welcome on TP. It is cheap for player who play. Don't have time to play ? gems->gold>mc also welcome.

    I believe you never leveled a guild hall:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_1:_Supply_Capacity
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_2:_WvW_Experience
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_3:_Movement_Speed
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_4:_Power
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_5:_Precision
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_6:_Toughness
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_7:_Vitality
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Objective_Aura_8:_Magic_Find

    I'm not even including cost for guild traders.

    That would be another 225 MC for the guild traders on top of the 780 you listed for the war room. Not to mention another 50 MC for upgrading the guild tavern. So 1055 total. And I've leveled one basically solo and assisted two others. I still practically a reflex to farm every flax node I cross plus at least one farm on a daily basis.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    They won't do anything. ANET wants you to buy more accounts for log in rewards which makes them money and looks good on the books for active accounts xD

    I am sure ANET don't have that plan. Also 99.9999% player also don't see reason buy second acc ONLY for MC's
    Need MC's buy it from TP. Is is cheap now. Don't have gold ? play or buy gems. Not see problem.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SASHI.7260 said:
    speculative answer then this manipulation is directly involved with Legendary Armory since those rich people who only trade outside of the Trading Post started hoarding legendary weapons.

    oh, if someone need leg weapon as Leg weapon - person can cfraft T1, and not spend 250 mc for T2. For that needed cms value is 0

    How to hoard a lot more? Simple, inflate the currency they are using (Mystic Coin) since by doing that, they could pay LESS Mystic Coin for 1 Legendary Weapon

    as I say people who play gw2 and don't try it do per one day need zero Mcs

    This would ALL be avoided for years if Player Trading via Mail/Guild Bank was NOT ALLOWED at the very start.

    doing that person get risk to lose all. Using TP fee is guarantee no be lose 100% So if someone like risk - don't see reason not allowed that. It absolutely not disturb me.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.2946 said:
    So 1055 total.

    so it less that 3000 gold ? easy. Also keep that make for evryone his own guild is not strong requirement. Same whit leg weapons.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The price of MC's going up simply means logging in is becoming more profitable. That is awesome! If you want to stick it to the people you think are manipulating the market you can simply not buy them and hold on to the free ones you get logging in. There really isn't a problem here. Just some text walls of people that want to pay less than market value for MC's.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • Seera.5916Seera.5916 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SASHI.7260 said:

    @Seera.5916 said:
    Where is the proof that it's not simple supply and demand?

    Just look at the statistics and that gigantic wall for the Mystic Coin (I already provided the link on my previous comment). It's not hard to see. Especially if you are a BIT aware on whats happening outside of the Trading post (such as on reddit and discords).

    Someone went mad cause they got banned on the Trading Discord for RMT that they sold 32+ Chak Egg Sac at max gold value just to get enough liquid gold to put a giant wall on Mystic Coin just to kitten the market. Now said WALL keeps moving from 1.8g to 2.0g because of that trend. (Obviously you would defend that "How I know its not just random people but only one person? Can you show proof?" and my answer to this one is simple, I do not have. Just numbers to look at.)

    The price on Mystic Coins at that time was floating at 1.5-1.7 per piece. Ever since that wall came up. it went from 1.8 to 2.0g in just a span of like what? 3-4 months? And now it fixed itself at above 2.0g since there are 3 sets of walls preventing it to go down (444,732 on 2g, 17,554 on 2g5c, 89,988 at 2g,10c)

    Tell me if that is NOT market manipulation (Obviously me pointing at the fact that people erect WALLS of buy order that is not feasible by the market to overcome based on the supply and demand statistics). Or are you implying that hoarding and market manipulation is supply and demand?

    If you really want a theoretical / speculative answer then this manipulation is directly involved with Legendary Armory since those rich people who only trade outside of the Trading Post started hoarding legendary weapons. How to hoard a lot more? Simple, inflate the currency they are using (Mystic Coin) since by doing that, they could pay LESS Mystic Coin for 1 Legendary Weapon (only at most around 900 MC per Legendary Weapon)

    This would ALL be avoided for years if Player Trading via Mail/Guild Bank was NOT ALLOWED at the very start. There is a reason why Player Trading was not implemented here and there is a reason why TP has a 5% posting fee and 10% selling fee. And that is to avoid this very incident.

    Edit: Woops. Did not know that would BOLD the letters up

    One person can't manipulate a market this large. Anything one person did would be quickly corrected unless the price they raised it to was the actual equilibrium price and they just shortened the time it took the item to get there.

    So again where is the proof that it is market manipulation and not simple supply and demand?

  • Trinnitty.8256Trinnitty.8256 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    They won't do anything. ANET wants you to buy more accounts for log in rewards which makes them money and looks good on the books for active accounts xD

    Well, if there is a reason Anet won't do anything, it's because this isn't a problem in the first place. That logic doesn't even make sense because they give MC's away for nothing for just logging in ... if the reason Anet won't do anything is because they want revenue, they WOULDN'T be giving these away on logging in to begin with.

    Let's put it this way ...it's about $50 to buy a new account ... right now that's just shy of 1400G on the exchange ... so almost 700 MC's ... anyone that is simply buying a second account just to get MC's is waiting 3 years for a break even on their investment with a daily log in and year to get enough MC's to make a legendary. In otherwords ... that's kind of a dumb way to go about buying your way into MC's.

    A new Account is $15.00 when on sale. {edit} Don't forget to add in the laurel log in reward can be used to convert to gold. So you get 2 gold a day if you do 3 Dailys, mystic coins and laurels. the daily mystic forger also gives 1 mystic coin for no effort.

    The biggest problem is and has always been mystic coins being used as a currency to bypass 500 gold mail transfer limit and to bypass the trading post maximum sale price limit on poorly implemented super low drop rates on some items. Also avoiding TP tax on big gold items.

  • I have always thought that allowing to convert laurels to MC could be a good idea to fix this problem (in addition to the actual ways to obtain MC). I mean, laurels are time gated, there are not other ways to obtain them apart from loging daily and most of us have a ton of them without any use... I'm not an economist, of course it would have some negative consecuences but... it could be a solution. It's just a personal opinion.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    They won't do anything. ANET wants you to buy more accounts for log in rewards which makes them money and looks good on the books for active accounts xD

    Well, if there is a reason Anet won't do anything, it's because this isn't a problem in the first place. That logic doesn't even make sense because they give MC's away for nothing for just logging in ... if the reason Anet won't do anything is because they want revenue, they WOULDN'T be giving these away on logging in to begin with.

    Let's put it this way ...it's about $50 to buy a new account ... right now that's just shy of 1400G on the exchange ... so almost 700 MC's ... anyone that is simply buying a second account just to get MC's is waiting 3 years for a break even on their investment with a daily log in and year to get enough MC's to make a legendary. In otherwords ... that's kind of a dumb way to go about buying your way into MC's.

    A new Account is $15.00 when on sale. {edit} Don't forget to add in the laurel log in reward can be used to convert to gold. So you get 2 gold a day if you do 3 Dailys, mystic coins and laurels. the daily mystic forger also gives 1 mystic coin for no effort.

    The biggest problem is and has always been mystic coins being used as a currency to bypass 500 gold mail transfer limit and to bypass the trading post maximum sale price limit on poorly implemented super low drop rates on some items. Also avoiding TP tax on big gold items.

    OK ... that doesn't change the fact that this doesn't have anything to do with Anet wanting revenue through new account sales since it's not the way anyone wanting to 'buy' MC's would do so in the first place. Also, MC price isn't a problem that Anet needs to fix. It's COMPLETELY driven by supply and demand, EVEN if that's some use for the MC's outside of crafting.

    Abuse from people that tell you how to play is not a reason to change a class in a game that is designed and works to allow you to play how you want.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trinnitty.8256 said:
    A new Account is $15.00 when on sale.

    have one more account it make from game - job. So more easy buy gems - convert and buy it asap if you need. Only 0.0000001 will be do that "monkey bussiness" wiht second acount

    The biggest problem is and has always been mystic coins being used as a currency to bypass 500 gold mail transfer limit and to bypass the trading post maximum sale price limit on poorly implemented super low drop rates on some items. Also avoiding TP tax on big gold items.

    This market is small. How man ppl buy chak infusion ? 1 ? 3 ? 5 ? totaly all use tp for common things. So there is no any "biggest problem"

    @Mannah.4012 said:
    I have always thought that allowing to convert laurels to MC could be a good idea to fix this problem (in addition to the actual ways to obtain MC).

    for that? need more - buy from TP without any timegate

    As I say many people as me have a lot of MC on hand, but 2 gold is cheap and funny price.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    That sounds more like a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

    there is no any "solution". Why ? because there is no any problem. Welcome on TP

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Just add trade fees for Orders to prevent Walls shenanigans.

  • Nurgle.6597Nurgle.6597 Member ✭✭
    edited February 26, 2021

    There are indeed people manipulating the markets and something should be done. There's a wp video ( where these people openly talk about what they do, hearing that they have millions of gold manipulating the market while I'm just playing the game normally and never had more that 1k gold in my 6 years of play time was sickening. Made the whole game seem pointless to me, the rich only get richer while the rest of us play in the mud (just like in real life).