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Draconic answers are a success, so ANET can add this!!!

Good day.
Seeing that the Draconic Response missions work at least "well", and can be bether, I wanted to raise an idea that I have been turning around for a long time (please read a few paragraphs before crucifying it, I will be brief):


Imagine ending the story of the Fractals (in any of its 4 difficulties) and in Lion's Arch, outside the Fractals, another azura appears saying that “it is very unstable to study separate fractals, I have found a new mega-fractal”.

This Azura allows you and your team (from 1 to 5 people) to enter this mega-fractal (a version of the previous Lion's Arch, like another dimension) with all the other maps that already exist (maybe with a filter that makes them look more gloomy and dangerous), but without the NPCs and with an ¡¡insane enemies difficulty!!, that increases as you move away from Lion's Arch …and no Fast Travel Points (no fast travel and no self resurrection).

So, the objective is:
Travel in all this public maps, from the center to the edges (increasing the difficulty), fighting against maps full of monsters and bosses of the highest level and difficulty, struggling to go to next map, using all the tools and skills unlocked in PvE, without being able to leave (except to do MvM and PvP, with their respective menus), having to plan strategies, build groups, meeting other players who try survive, to reach the edge. A true adventure that can take days, organizeing teams or meeting new allies.

In this way:

  • With a minimum of extra programming, ANET can recycle ALL maps, but expanding a lot of content and a new mode (already tested in a small version).
  • If your entire team dies, they have to start over from Lion's Arch (they can revive each other, if at least 1 survives).
  • You have to advance in extreme difficulty, and with a real challenge, but with great rewards.
  • If you exchange characters within the mega-fractal, they appear in the same place as the previous one (without affecting the exploration of the PvE map of each character), allowing to reformulate the strategies and functions in the team. Upon exiting the mega-fractal, each character returns to where it was.
  • Meals, armor repair, potions and teamwork take on real importance, having to stock up before starting.

Extras (they are only alternatives to consider, do not condemn the original idea if you do not like one):

1) Clan War:

In this mega-fractal there can be PvP zones where only members of the same clan and group are allies, the others compete for loot and events (giving meaning to GUILD Wars).
1.2) There may be floating fortresses that the clans can capture (but that is not easy, that requires cooperation and several days of invasions). Clans can maintain a permanent 1 fortress, which connects to the clan hall and serves as a Fast Travel Point for their members (if your entire group dies they can return to Lion's Arch or the fortress).
1.2) You can steal the fortress from another clan, but you have to conquer it and defeat the other clan (in several days of fighting, invasions and destruction of key points).
1.3) You can make alliances or clan mergers (temporary or permanent), to share strengths and expand the power of the forces (respecting the extensions and limitations that exist for clans).

2) New world, new events:
In this mega-fractal there would not be the same NPCs and other events as in PvE, but they can be recycled and adding new special and high difficulty events.
2.1) Small and few "safe zones" can be added, with NPCs that allow teams to "rest", repair armor, make/buy food and potions, etc.
2.2) You can create unique bosses and events, which cannot be overcome without a high degree of coordination and teamwork, focused on clans or groups of 1 to 5, which in another game mode could not exist.
2.3) Maybe include just some fighting NPCs, who help in combat randomly and with whom to do special missions.

3) Language flags (totally optional):
That in configuration there is the option -OPTIONAL, I repeat- to mark 1 to 5 language flags (the default languages ​​of the game), to notify those who see you which of these languages ​​you speak. Those who do not want to make differentiation deactivate the option (they do not see or show the flags), those who look for people of their lenguagecan mark the ones they want (example: in my case, I would mark English and Spanish, to denote that I understand both).


I don't even know why I bother to answer, the biggest "argument" most odf you give is:
Your idea is bad for "pretext that has nothing to do with the post or far-fetched nonsense that is irrelevant or asquing by something written textual in the publication!"

The idea is there, don't you like it? "Surprise!", that is how they did not like (and you insulted and discredited the ideas of) the mounts, the "flying" mounts (actuals skyscale), optimizing supp of the Thief (arts of the shadows), optimizing the Inspiration of the Illusionist, nerf the Scourge, aquatic mount, etc., but now all that exists in the game.
(You can still see several of those in my profile ...the ones that DID NOT DELETE due to insults from the community, "thanks again")

What happens is that you always have to throw down the ideas of others, without bothering to read (I saw only 1 person who read well ...and he gave solid arguments and critics), and that is ...the most of you are just horrible people, is everything.

PS: I don't bother to answer any more.

<1

Comments

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    wow, 10 seconds to answer and forcefully ask negatively ¬¬
    Yes, they work, at least "well"

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    And faced with a new mode (which, yes, it can come with its defects, but still they work and can work better) you choose to see the negative side
    ...even more, comment negative, at 10 seconds of the publication and without reading the rest, just for being negative.

    Yes, it is forcibly negative, and annoying ¬¬

  • ElijahFitzroy.5762ElijahFitzroy.5762 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    Reading your idea, from my interpretation of it. You basically want to change every map in the game into a T4 fractal or a Raid. (1-5 man).

    First issue I have with this is how can you have multiple groups of 5 in these suggested variations of vanilla maps. When comparing them to fractals you have to remember that they are supposed to be instanced content. With your ideas for PvP in them it would be more like a wvw map with groups being in factions.

    To the PvP I’d say a hard no. ANet has said multiple times they have wvw and PvP for that. They do not want open PvP in the PvE maps and many people in GW2 agree with that. Of course there are people that would also like to have PvP zones or versions of PvE zones with PvP. I am a person that does not want pvp in PvE unless it is WvW.

    Your basic idea would just be a hard mode PvE map with PvP thrown in. I would have to say no to this. Especially since each instance of an alternate map would take up more space on the servers for the few people that want to play hard mode.

    Also please try and be civil. We are simply stating our opinions on what you have presented and it would be helpful if you explained some of your ideas more so that those that are commenting will know more of what you are trying to put forward.

    And my apologies if I have misinterpreted your initial post. If you could explain some more it would be helpful.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    Bleh ignore the negative feedback. This is a good idea, though I'd present it in maybe a simpler format:

    1. Yes, a new type of asura portal near fractals that is a mega fractal, pretty much alternate reality of Tyria where there are no waypoints and you progress outwards into Central Tyria maps that are full of insanely difficult combat encounters.
    2. These combat encounters don't even need to be elaborate new metas or anything, just replace normal mobs with insanely difficult mobs. Anet could even take the easy route on this and simply bolster up the stats of normal mobs. IE: you walk out into Queensdale and a boar charges you and 1shots you into downstate. Of course it would be cooler if Anet took the time to make it sort of like "The Upside Down" of Tyria, with a dark world theme like from Stranger Things, and all of the mobs are just weird strange random demonic fractal creatures that are insanely difficult to deal with.
    3. Of course drops and drop rates would be increased from these creatures.
    4. If your party full wipes, you have to respawn in LA again. There are no way points.
    5. Old World Bosses like Shadow Behemoth or the Fire Shaman would be insanely jacked up difficulty. Everything they do should hit like a raid boss. Anet wouldn't even need to change or add mechanics, just jack up the statistical attributes of these old bosses. Some of those things would be very difficult if they hit like a raid boss and you only had 5 dudes to deal with them. Then the drops for these insane hard mode bosses should be well worth it. I'm talking chances of finding Black Lion Keys, stuff like that.
  • 1) That is why it is necessary that they be PvP ZONES and not the entire map.

    2) PvP is an optional and extra, but aimed at finally materializing the GUILD wars, in a way that does not interfere with the rest.

    3) Yes, it takes up more instance space, which would be minimal. No more than what each instance of the new game modes occupies.
    In addition, it is not a PvP + PvE, it is mainly a PvE of increased difficulty and in cooperative survival mode and with areas focused on clan warfare.

    4) with you I could be "civilized". With the previous 2 who immediately commented on something negative and / or inventory things just to tear down the idea, I will not be "civilized".

    Thank you for your comment and indeed try to dialogue, do not seek to be negative

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Yes, a new type of asura portal near fractals that is a mega fractal, pretty much alternate reality of Tyria where there are no waypoints and you progress outwards into Central Tyria maps that are full of insanely difficult combat encounters.

    Can you provide an example of how that's going to work? Once you use that portal, where will you end up? How exactly are you gonna "block" players from moving about and ignoring fights? Open World maps aren't simple one path maps like in Fractals or Raids, they are large and expansive. There are no "blocks" in place, like bosses to kill in order to open up a new path. Let's say I'm in Queensdale, outside Divinity's Reach, and want to reach the portal leading to Kessex Hills, how are you gonna stop me?

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    I read everything just fine. You should explain your idea more, what does

    fighting and overcoming bosses in very high difficulty.

    even mean? What bosses exactly?

    "very high difficulty" is very subjective. There is content that I find highly difficult which others might breeze through.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Yes, a new type of asura portal near fractals that is a mega fractal, pretty much alternate reality of Tyria where there are no waypoints and you progress outwards into Central Tyria maps that are full of insanely difficult combat encounters.

    Can you provide an example of how that's going to work? Once you use that portal, where will you end up? How exactly are you gonna "block" players from moving about and ignoring fights? Open World maps aren't simple one path maps like in Fractals or Raids, they are large and expansive. There are no "blocks" in place, like bosses to kill in order to open up a new path. Let's say I'm in Queensdale, outside Divinity's Reach, and want to reach the portal leading to Kessex Hills, how are you gonna stop me?

    Hrm, I'd imagine the easiest implementation would simply be a closed instance for the 5 players. I have no idea how much additional server power Anet would need in this situation.

    When they use the portal they would immediately appear in that same position on the other side of the portal, in the upside down Lion's Arch, and they can take the portal again to leave.

    Blocking players from map access could be as easy as removing the portals that would normally take the players to other maps, until they kill some designated boss which would open the portal or maybe they must "vanquish" the area first before the portals would open, like in GW1. So the idea is you load into upside down LA and you have to kill EVERYTHING in LA before the north and south portals open to be able to travel to either Genderran or Bloodtide. You could even put a timer on how long the party has to be able to kill the things in the map as to force a bit more of a challenge. Each map could get progressively more difficult and as such, rewards also get better.

    Or alternatively, the party could select the desired level of difficulty which would reflect drop potential. Are you familiar with how Diablo 3 worked with its torment difficulty scale? Anet could use something like that. Let's say that when the party loads into upside down LA, they get to select a scale of difficulty that would reflect the already existent agony and instability scales of 1 to 100 fractals. But.... with the upside down LA, let's say that the fractal scale could be selected up to 200. So we are looking at an open world exploration farm fest for drops, that is the equivalent of T8 fractals, having something like 6x instabilities active all at once. Probably would need to require players to have something like 250 AR to even begin to step into a scale 200, which likely would demand having unlocked things like Fractal God, while having some of the most expensive +AR infusion bonuses possible.

    Hey! it'd be something new to do.

  • That would address it from 2 sides:

    1) Increase the stats of the bosses, yes, but also take advantage of the fact that it is a "fractal" to abuse AR ... increases the difficulty requiring more resistance to agony the further they move away from Lion's Arc.

    2) Take advantage that there is a range of bosses in the game and these mix or increase them. This already requires combat mechanics and team combinations, in this way, the difficulty varies depending on how the team is combined to face a difficulty (and events, if added).

    The idea is, exactly, to leave this point open, since it is a whole new world where to implement what already exists, but raising the base stats and the need for AR ..."imagination is the limit"

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards. As per the usual with people who have something to prove, they need something to flaunt. The tediousness is just so other people wouldn't be willing to go through with it.

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    Perhaps it is even simpler: Use the same instances as now, public and with a certain limit of players , but change the rules for filling in the maps for those in "mega-fractal" mode .

    Basically, loading each map instance (where they exclusively find mega-fractal players, obviously) with other events, enemies and NPCs, keeping the extra load charge to a minimum. In that case, the biggest difference would be that the minimum number of instances of each map would be 2 and not 1 XD

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Blocking players from map access could be as easy as removing the portals that would normally take the players to other maps, until they kill some designated boss which would open the portal or maybe they must "vanquish" the area first before the portals would open, like in GW1.

    That's not how vanquishing worked in GW1, there were no "portals" you could leave a zone any time you wished.
    So this idea is a boring "skip to the boss", "kill the boss", "get rewards", "open portal to next map", rinse and repeat. Just mindless mob killing in open world maps fighting so called "insane difficulty" enemies. What makes Fractal CMs and Raids challenging is the fact that bosses have mechanics and require teamwork. The OP stated:

    With a minimum of extra programming, ANET can recycle ALL maps, but expanding a lot of content and a new mode (already tested in a small version).

    If every open world boss, or at least those required to open up the portals to the next zone, must have entirely new mechanics, then the idea of "minimum extra programming" goes out of the window. And since Anet releases Strike Missions and Fractals so rarely and Raids are dead, I don't think it's reasonable to assume they'd invest so many resources to "upgrade" (or rather create from scratch) so many ex-open world bosses. And that's to actually be challenging, just increasing their health and damage isn't "challenging", it's tedious. Doesn't really deserve any extra rewards

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards. As per the usual with people who have something to prove, they need something to flaunt. The tediousness is just so other people wouldn't be willing to go through with it.

    Indeed. When someone goes out of their way to repeat "challenging", "insane difficulty" but provides zero ways of how to accomplish this (other than extra health, extra damage, and addition of higher agony damage) then you are probably right

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards.

    Eh I don't know about that man. I come from a different era of gaming I guess. I like to have things in games that are challenging and fun to smash around in, even if I don't care about the reward. A good example is how I'll go in and run T4s or teach CMs to people just because I'm looking for something to do to burn some time. Sometimes the gaming really is just about the gaming and running some build that you thought up that feels good to play. But again, things get boring if things are too easy and you've ran the content so many times. A big massive upside down Central Tyria is A LOT of content to play in before that would get boring. Sometimes the best reward is just knowing you and your buddies went in and were able to complete it. Kind of like when you beat Mike Tyson in the original Mike Tysons Punch Out for the first time, always a personal milestone for any gamer.

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    By the way, the intention of this is that if it is a challenge, that not everyone can achieve it on a daily basis (as with most events in the game) and that it is worth a new experience:

    Survival mode, co-operative, applying what was previously achieved in PvE and fractals (and, perhaps, not forced, improving the clan experience ...to a true clan war)

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If the idea of "challenge" and "difficulty" for someone is about increasing mob stats, like health and damage, they are free to play in the current open world maps with white gear, or no gear at all. I personally find damage sponges that deal big damage not be challenging, or fun, I'd rather be challenged by actual mechanics. But I guess anyone can have their own opinion on the subject.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Blocking players from map access could be as easy as removing the portals that would normally take the players to other maps, until they kill some designated boss which would open the portal or maybe they must "vanquish" the area first before the portals would open, like in GW1.

    That's not how vanquishing worked in GW1, there were no "portals" you could leave a zone any time you wished.
    So this idea is a boring "skip to the boss", "kill the boss", "get rewards", "open portal to next map", rinse and repeat. Just mindless mob killing in open world maps fighting so called "insane difficulty" enemies. What makes Fractal CMs and Raids challenging is the fact that bosses have mechanics and require teamwork. The OP stated:

    With a minimum of extra programming, ANET can recycle ALL maps, but expanding a lot of content and a new mode (already tested in a small version).

    If every open world boss, or at least those required to open up the portals to the next zone, must have entirely new mechanics, then the idea of "minimum extra programming" goes out of the window. And since Anet releases Strike Missions and Fractals so rarely and Raids are dead, I don't think it's reasonable to assume they'd invest so many resources to "upgrade" (or rather create from scratch) so many ex-open world bosses. And that's to actually be challenging, just increasing their health and damage isn't "challenging", it's tedious. Doesn't really deserve any extra rewards

    Dude you can turn it down a notch. I didn't claim vanquishing in GW1 opened portals. I said the idea could be to vanquish the area before you progressed, which means you have to kill everything, every single creature. And if there was a time limit on the vanquish, you'd need to seriously spend time charting routes through each map that the 5 players would divide into to be able to actually achieve clears under those limits. You're also looking at how some mobs/bosses wouldn't be able to be handled by 1 person or maybe not even with 2. In some situations the players may need a full 5 man regroup to deal with say a Champion Troll Spawn. So these planned routes wouldn't be so easy and it would require a great deal of team play and coordination of when to split to cover more ground and when to regroup.

    The most fun part about this, is that you could toggle and use several different builds during these vanquishes, rather than just a single T4 meta fractal build. We'd be looking at toggling between map explore builds like a P/P Deadeye or anything else that was highly mobility highly self sufficient vs. when you regroup with your team, then use templates to swap to some role that obviously functions better when you're regrouped with your HB and Alac. Then of course even the HB and the Alac is swapping to DH or some otherwise self sufficient build when he has to split to cover an area himself for the sake of time during the vanquish as well.

    I'm telling the idea he presented in this thread is a good idea and could go very deep, providing a lot of extra content and "fun stuff to do with your guild" with minimal programming/coding required on Anet's part. I mean this is essentially just recycling old content with tweaked numbers.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards.

    Eh I don't know about that man. I come from a different era of gaming I guess. I like to have things in games that are challenging and fun to smash around in, even if I don't care about the reward. A good example is how I'll go in and run T4s or teach CMs to people just because I'm looking for something to do to burn some time. Sometimes the gaming really is just about the gaming and running some build that you thought up that feels good to play. But again, things get boring if things are too easy and you've ran the content so many times. A big massive upside down Central Tyria is A LOT of content to play in before that would get boring. Sometimes the best reward is just knowing you and your buddies went in and were able to complete it. Kind of like when you beat Mike Tyson in the original Mike Tysons Punch Out for the first time, always a personal milestone for any gamer.

    Everything get tedious with repetition. If it didn't, a single raid would keep a game alive forever, and obviously "challenge" doesn't make it last any longer. If raids gave no rewards, i doubt many would do them, which is an achievement considering how miniscule the amount of people who participate in raids is already.

    And you can stuff the "i came from a strange era" trite, since i've played games for around 30 years.

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Since ANet has developped gamestuff in the past, they should make this second game for me with a GW2 skin, but it's not GW2 since it's full of things and mechanics not found in the game that is actually live."
    "GW2 is good, but this different game that ANet should develop and call GW2 will be better."

    I know, Anet has reinvented parts of the game more than once. But those days are long past. When it comes to playable content, it usually comes down to a test or two, which is of course announced as "the new direction the game will take from now on", and if the content proves as a succsess, which includes gemstore sales of course, Anet will in fact continue. If the tests fail, the conent is abandoned. What you suggest isn't just asking to basically make a new game the size of GW2 inside of GW2, it's also quite a lot of work for them, only to find out whether people will like it or not.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards.

    Eh I don't know about that man. I come from a different era of gaming I guess. I like to have things in games that are challenging and fun to smash around in, even if I don't care about the reward. A good example is how I'll go in and run T4s or teach CMs to people just because I'm looking for something to do to burn some time. Sometimes the gaming really is just about the gaming and running some build that you thought up that feels good to play. But again, things get boring if things are too easy and you've ran the content so many times. A big massive upside down Central Tyria is A LOT of content to play in before that would get boring. Sometimes the best reward is just knowing you and your buddies went in and were able to complete it. Kind of like when you beat Mike Tyson in the original Mike Tysons Punch Out for the first time, always a personal milestone for any gamer.

    Everything get tedious with repetition. If it didn't, a single raid would keep a game alive forever, and obviously "challenge" doesn't make it last any longer. If raids gave no rewards, i doubt many would do them, which is an achievement considering how miniscule the amount of people who participate in raids is already.

    And you can stuff the "i came from a strange era" trite, since i've played games for around 30 years.

    Everything you guys are saying is as if you had some incentive that we don't know about, to come into threads with good ideas and shoot them down.

    Of course everything gets tedious with repetition, but do you know why that is? Things are tedious when one is only valuing what happens at the end of the task. It is tedious to work 8 hours at a job because I just want my paycheck and I want to go home. It is tedious to run my fractal runs each night because I am focusing on working towards the reward of Fractal God Title. It is tedious to organize and run raids because I am focused on legendary armor skins. This is what happens when people are baited into always wanting things, only worried about rewards.

    You said you've been gaming for 30 years. Do you not remember what it was like to put in Super Mario Brothers 3 and play it just because it was a fun thing to do? The reason why it was fun is because no matter how good you were, when you hit world 7 and 8, the game was always challenging. There were always ways to try and improve your accuracy or methods of how to beat the game a little bit faster. The last two worlds were always difficult enough to where you could easily mess up and die and kill your time run. It was always just difficult enough to provide a satisfying cerebral experience that required paying attention. The reward wasn't a pot of gold that you could use to buy skins after defeating Bowser, the reward was playing the game and crunching monsters with style.

    For some reason there are a lot of people in these GW2 forums that give responses like you two are, just entirely pessimistically focused on these business model like standards that have absolutely nothing to do what how fun something is to play.

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    If the idea of "challenge" and "difficulty" for someone is about increasing mob stats, like health and damage, they are free to play in the current open world maps with white gear, or no gear at all. I personally find damage sponges that deal big damage not be challenging, or fun, I'd rather be challenged by actual mechanics. But I guess anyone can have their own opinion on the subject.

    My good dude, of course it would be amazing to see an entirely newly designed world with new monsters and new mechanics, like the upcoming EoD expansion is going to be. My purpose in assisting the OP's suggestion here in this thread, was to propose a super easy to configure content recycle that would require a ridiculously small amount of Anet's time invested to be able to do, for what it would be worth to the community. The ideas presented in this thread would just be giving all of the old fractals boys A LOT more to do and aspire towards, concerning utilizing the AR system. If you wanted to bolster the mechanics of monsters during these vanquishes, Anet could give them all permanent Quickness, Alac, Super Speed. That would fundamentally change a lot about how the mechanics felt.

    I know you'll come back with some response to make make everything I've said somehow look negative. But I'd like you explain to me how not different it would feel to approach a group or 4 or 5 Cursed Shore zombies, the ones with hammers that knock you down, when they had perma Quick, Alac, Super Speed and jacked up attributes on top of instabilities and AR damage to boot. Tbh it would feel like an entirely different game man.

    All of this would also really put build/gear templates to use. Some areas depending on what types of mobs are there and what instabilities are in effect, would greatly encourage if not demand, swapping to different builds to engage the situations in the map. It would be a lot of fun.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Dude you can turn it down a notch. I didn't claim vanquishing in GW1 opened portals.

    It's in the part I quoted, that you also quoted:

    Blocking players from map access could be as easy as removing the portals that would normally take the players to other maps, until they kill some designated boss which would open the portal or maybe they must "vanquish" the area first before the portals would open, like in GW1.

    As I said earlier I'm not a mind reader, I only respond to what's written and that's exactly what you claimed.

    The ideas presented in this thread would just be giving all of the old fractals boys A LOT more to do and aspire towards, concerning utilizing the AR system.

    What ideas exactly?
    "Start in LA", "gets more difficult when you move outwards", "will be insanely difficult", "extra rewards", "vanquish like in GW1", "will put the build system to good use", "players will split up", "no waypoints", "back to LA if you die", that's all presented so far, in one sentence.
    There are no ideas presented so far in this thread, just assumptions and claims. I even specifically asked for an example how would this all work, but alas so far got no answer, just wishful thinking.

    Anet could give them all permanent Quickness, Alac, Super Speed. That would fundamentally change a lot about how the mechanics felt.

    I'm sure fighting those Moas in Queensdale while they have Quickness, Alacrity and Super Speed is gonna make them super challenging.

  • I'm confused. Is it instanced content, which is limited to 10 players, or Open World content, that allows many players?
    If it allows GvG, is it another form of World vs. World (with even more PvE content [which is not very popular])?

  • I did not understand the second thing you said, but regarding the first:

    It is adding a second version of the PvE maps, in a co-operative survival mode with AR, which basically only changes the rules to populate each instance, replacing the normal with much more difficult enemies and some new rules.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    DRM is a "cheap"/budget episode, this should not be a "new normal" lolz.

    is a reutilized map packed with dialogues, to resemble a "normal episode" this is inferior even to a new fractal.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    Everything you guys are saying is as if you had some incentive that we don't know about, to come into threads with good ideas and shoot them down.

    Of course the idea seems good to you. That's fine. Not everyone will agree with your assessment.

    For some reason there are a lot of people in these GW2 forums that give responses like you two are, just entirely pessimistically focused on these business model like standards that have absolutely nothing to do what how fun something is to play.

    Because, at the end of the day, Anet is a business that is accountable to their shareholders. Whether or not something is fun to play, in your opinion, is irrelevant. What is relevant is what content can Anet produce that will bring in the largest amount of income/profit. It may well be that your idea has already been discussed at the studio and discounted as being too costly or something that their internal metrics show to be not profitable.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • DeanBB.4268DeanBB.4268 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OP

    Like others who have responded, the description of your idea is very confusing.

    How/why is this linked to Fractals at all?

    Is it a "team (1-5)" [sounds like instanced?] or "public (meeting other players)" [sounds open-world?], both are mentioned.

    One player can do it, yet teamwork, taking days to accomplish it, and fighting beefed-up world bosses are all mentioned.

    And, amazingly enough, requires very little work for Anet to implement!

    X__________________________
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  • The episode may "be cheap", but the game system is what can be used (already being tested) to implement this mode
    ...do not mix things up (which, by the way, would not be a "new normal", but an alternative, such as PvP, MvM, Fractals, etc).

  • If you talk about investment (and only from that point of view), then this is the best idea in the world:

    • Take what is already done and mix
    • Alter the filling of the maps, leaving the bases intact.
    • Have a lot of new "content", built on updating what has been recycled to a new series of mechanics, cheap to implement and program

    PS: To that you add skins, themes and accesses. Ready, for sale

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    You are totally wrong:
    It is the same as they do in Fractals now (take an existing map, add new elements from other maps and increase the difficulty, both by AR and by stats).

    In fact, it is much cheaper to take existing maps and have enemies already created (under the excuse that it is a Fractal) than to create new maps, with new enemies and stories. It's like Obvious.

    P.D .: I can't even believe that your comment has a like, there you see people who want to tear down new ideas just because.

  • @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    If your argument is that the community does not allow growth: The community is going to swallow anything as long as it is good, even if before they only insulted and said it would not work.

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @DeanBB.4268 said:

    1) Through the use of AR, the difficulty is increased and narrative coherence is saved by using the "fractal" wildcard.

    2) The cooperative survival system needs to limit the group on which survival depends, but maintaining an instance is cheaper when multiple players are kept in it. So:

    • If your group dies, they start from the beginning or a fortress.
    • You can see other groups, sharing the instance, as well as disarm and arm new groups.

    The best of both.

    3) This is the survival mode, long games against difficult enemies, advancing as far as possible. In terms of quantity, you can enter alone, but by necessity you will end up aleandote with other players (something that they already demonstrated, if it happens in the Draconic Responses).

    4) It is much cheaper to take the base of already built maps and plant on the same enemies already built (with some changes or recombinations), than to have to create new maps, with their own stories, elements, mechanics and rules.

    ALL of this can be deduced from the original post.
    Now explain it "with pears and apples", but it is only a matter of wanting to understand.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Arguing for/against mounts is significantly different than what is being presented here. I don't believe that to be a fair comparison to support one's argument.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Dear OP, this is the most rediculous idea i have read in this forum for a long time.
    This would be like creating a 2nd game running at the same time for like 8 people world wide who would play this thing.

    If you read the forum carefully you will figure that the vast majority absolutley hates the response missions already
    Building huge conetent around them would cause a riot

  • @kharmin.7683 said:
    Arguing for/against mounts is significantly different than what is being presented here. I don't believe that to be a fair comparison to support one's argument.

    In fact, if it is, it is a perfect comparison:

    • You blame the community for not being able to implement the idea.
    • I show you that good ideas that the same community have condemned if they can perform, that it does not depend on it (they always violate the new and in a bad way).
  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not to detract from the work involved, but implementing mounts was a massive QoL for everyone who purchased the expansion (which was probably the reason why they were implemented in the first place), but probably not the level of development that would be involved with what is being proposed here which, to be frank, seems to me to be for a niche audience. That's why I don't believe that the comparison is valid.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Aavataris.5720Aavataris.5720 Member ✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    It was you who focused on the community being the problem, now I find it cynical and hypocritical to CONVENIENTLY discard an example that proves otherwise
    ...based on the level of production, right? That makes no sense

    PS: You made that point (the dependency on the community) and I showed that it is not true with an example (the mounts today do work despite what the community said in past, so you have no argument) ...but: "Ok, werever u say", you insist because conveniently "you don't believe"

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good luck with your request.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Cobra.6509Cobra.6509 Member ✭✭✭
    1. DRM are not a success. They are tedious and not fun. And no one does CMs after they made the achievements.
    2. For me the instance should be like old fractals where if you pay attention its easy to do it. Not like the new fractal ones where damage will follow you no matter you will do.
    3. Your idea can be good but not with harder mobs but with clever mobs, with clever mini events clever bosses where higher skills can make a difference. It's easy to deliver mobs with more HP and dmg and make him see you in stealth or make him curb his arrow and hit you every time, whatever side you dodge, but make the mob behave normal and do a challenged content is harder.
    4. Rewards, fractals have also good rewards that's why peoples are farming them. Otherwise peoples will farm the achievements and forget about it like dungeons(some of them are really good), strikes or DRM. All this content wasted because Anet didn't think it thru.
    5. For me the best way to do new instanced content in GW2 is do good fractals and create new rewards for them. Scrap all other instanced content dungeons, raids, strikes, DRMs , use what is good from them to make new fractals, be it mechanics, bosses or rewards.
  • @kharmin.7683 said:
    Good luck with your request.

    Since they insults everyone who disagrees them, they'll need it.

    As for the actual premise, I would much rather developmental resource be put into something... better. Like actual fractals and revitalizing dungeons.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    If your argument is that the community does not allow growth: The community is going to swallow anything as long as it is good, even if before they only insulted and said it would not work.

    At the pvp level, this community wants absolutely nothing new. If you follow this forum, reddit and the competitive players, they want to stick with their minable cap mode and that's it. Guild wars 1 was a very varied game in terms of pvp, we had tons of different modes, the players were open to a lot of things. But on this game it's a disaster, honestly I have never seen that on any mmo I played.
    The pvp has hardly evolved in 9 long years, never seen it before and it is absolutely not arena's fault

    As for the pve, as soon as you mention the word ''challenge'', 90% of players are complaining that guild wars 2 is not made for that ... this partly explains why the raids were abandoned and that there is so few fractals added.
    the majority of gw2 players want pve which is limited to following a bus and killing motionless bosses without mechanics, it's like that, we have to deal with it or leave this game unfortunately

    that's why I told you that your idea is not bad but there is no chance that it happens because of the players.
    Mounts could be add in the game, because it remains a basic feature that does not require any involvement to improve your skill so the players weren't totally against that

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Good luck with your request.

    Since they insults everyone who disagrees them, they'll need it.

    As for the actual premise, I would much rather developmental resource be put into something... better. Like actual fractals and revitalizing dungeons.

    Yeah, that's kinda why I bowed out now. No longer worth my effort.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Yggranya.5201Yggranya.5201 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Yggranya.5201 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    What you describe is not a real challenge, nor extreme difficulty, it's real boredom and extreme tediousness. It might've looked great in your mind before you typed it, but seeing your suggestion written makes me only fall asleep.

    Not to mention that the "difficulty" or "challenge" isn't the goal here, just the great rewards.

    Eh I don't know about that man. I come from a different era of gaming I guess. I like to have things in games that are challenging and fun to smash around in, even if I don't care about the reward. A good example is how I'll go in and run T4s or teach CMs to people just because I'm looking for something to do to burn some time. Sometimes the gaming really is just about the gaming and running some build that you thought up that feels good to play. But again, things get boring if things are too easy and you've ran the content so many times. A big massive upside down Central Tyria is A LOT of content to play in before that would get boring. Sometimes the best reward is just knowing you and your buddies went in and were able to complete it. Kind of like when you beat Mike Tyson in the original Mike Tysons Punch Out for the first time, always a personal milestone for any gamer.

    Everything get tedious with repetition. If it didn't, a single raid would keep a game alive forever, and obviously "challenge" doesn't make it last any longer. If raids gave no rewards, i doubt many would do them, which is an achievement considering how miniscule the amount of people who participate in raids is already.

    And you can stuff the "i came from a strange era" trite, since i've played games for around 30 years.

    Everything you guys are saying is as if you had some incentive that we don't know about, to come into threads with good ideas and shoot them down.

    Of course everything gets tedious with repetition, but do you know why that is? Things are tedious when one is only valuing what happens at the end of the task. It is tedious to work 8 hours at a job because I just want my paycheck and I want to go home. It is tedious to run my fractal runs each night because I am focusing on working towards the reward of Fractal God Title. It is tedious to organize and run raids because I am focused on legendary armor skins. This is what happens when people are baited into always wanting things, only worried about rewards.

    You said you've been gaming for 30 years. Do you not remember what it was like to put in Super Mario Brothers 3 and play it just because it was a fun thing to do? The reason why it was fun is because no matter how good you were, when you hit world 7 and 8, the game was always challenging. There were always ways to try and improve your accuracy or methods of how to beat the game a little bit faster. The last two worlds were always difficult enough to where you could easily mess up and die and kill your time run. It was always just difficult enough to provide a satisfying cerebral experience that required paying attention. The reward wasn't a pot of gold that you could use to buy skins after defeating Bowser, the reward was playing the game and crunching monsters with style.

    For some reason there are a lot of people in these GW2 forums that give responses like you two are, just entirely pessimistically focused on these business model like standards that have absolutely nothing to do what how fun something is to play.

    I do play games cause it's fun. The challenge in ye olden games came from the more simplistic design, like getting killed from one hit without some protection/upgrades. This suggestion would be a waste of time, since the wannabe "challenge" is never popular, especially since all it has amounted to is "more health/damage". Those old games had mechanincs you deal with, not bullet sponges you wail on for 10 minutes and the only rewards was that you completed the mission and moved forward, not some petty little gold reward or whatever the "great rewards" are supposed to be. Honestly, i can't see myself playing something like this, regardless what you or anet think about it, and i don't need any business models to prove it sucks. If someone finds drudgery fun, then good for them. I know i don't. Getting "great rewards" is the pinnacle of valuing the end result instead of the journey.

    Not to mention yet another attempt to stuff some open world free for all to gank people in their guild.