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Draconic answers are a success, so ANET can add this!!!

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  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    If your argument is that the community does not allow growth: The community is going to swallow anything as long as it is good, even if before they only insulted and said it would not work.

    Yes but they were never needed before when we had waypoints everywere.
    If you noticed maps after mounts have few waypoints making them necesary.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Arguing for/against mounts is significantly different than what is being presented here. I don't believe that to be a fair comparison to support one's argument.

    In fact, if it is, it is a perfect comparison:

    • You blame the community for not being able to implement the idea.
    • I show you that good ideas that the same community have condemned if they can perform, that it does not depend on it (they always violate the new and in a bad way).

    not, if the case is compare to mount will be like this:

    • we have the actual mounts,
    • then they come with hipotethical "new mounts", theses ones will be just the same as actual ones, but with just half of skills and speed(cheap variant), this is what DRM is to normal content.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Zephire.8049Zephire.8049 Member ✭✭✭

    You claim it won't take much work because maps could be reused but you're ignoring all the work that would be required to.

    • Remove all old NPCs
    • Add any new NPCs
    • Write dialogue for those new NPCS
    • Code the entire mode
    • Balance damage and add scaling to mobs and bosses

    That's a heck of a lot of work even if models and maps can be reused. They also don't have a handy list of NPCs where they can go Select All > Delete so they would have to manually go through each map and find NPCs to remove them—it's a big reason why objects in core Tyria being changed to take condition damage has been put off as it's so much work to find everything on every map. And objects taking condition damage would be a huge QoL improvement for all PvE players instead of spending the same amount of time on something that's super niche.

    Not to mention the increase of resources because instead of one map instance for, say, 75 people, that would be 15 instances for the same amount of people if each party was maxed at five players.

    Also the vast majority of people aren't keen on locking themselves out of playing a game for days (or weeks) in an MMO. For such a mode, people would need to be able to stop at any time and get back to regular Tyria. GW2's demographic largely leans towards 25+ and parents given how it doesn't punish people for not being able to play hours a day every day so any new mode needs to respect players' time. Locking people into something until they finish it is not going to appeal to the vast majority of players.

    Speaking of the majority of players, the majority of players don't raid either between time commitment, the difficulties in finding a group, or both. The interest is there but it's no feasible with the current lack of options in-game. Your suggestion makes both easy in comparison.

    And do you have a plan on how to deal with someone who is toxic and going out of their way to prevent others from moving forward if you also want to lock people into the mode? If you get kicked or choose to leave a raid or fractal for not wanting to deal with that, that's generally 2 hours max that you lost out on, but you want people to spend days on this. A great way to turn people off of your game is to tell them they have to just deal with people who derive joy from antagonizing others and preventing others from progressing.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    Out of curiousity (and for the sake of you having some sort of credibility tbh), can you link your threads/posts about implementing mounts?

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 18, 2021

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    You are totally wrong:
    It is the same as they do in Fractals now (take an existing map, add new elements from other maps and increase the difficulty, both by AR and by stats).

    If you think making a fractal instance requires a minimum programming, you are very wrong. Remember, making fractals out of already existing LS1 dungeons took them several months, and they only had to cut them in two.

    In fact, it is much cheaper to take existing maps and have enemies already created (under the excuse that it is a Fractal) than to create new maps, with new enemies and stories. It's like Obvious.

    No, you can't just apply some type of "fractal type scaling" to an open world map and suddenly make it work with a small and uniform group of players. Open World areas are not uniformly scaled for a set player group of constant size. Some places are okay for solo, other (especially some meta boss events) require a lot more players. There's no way to make an automatic scaling to make such a map a properly balanced instance.

    For example, Tequalt scaling starts at 30 players (i believe). If you let 5 or 10man group enter that map, then either they'll get wiped by tequatl with zero chance of survival, or (if the map gets scaled down) they will roll over most of the other parts of the map. Or both.

    So, basically, you will end with Anet having to manually adjust all the mobs on the map.

    Notice also, that a fractal map has a clear progression path, where you kill mobs/do events in a certain order until you clear the map. Open World maps don;t have any such mechanic, so you would have to add those as well.

    Yeah, that's a minimal amount of work all right.[/sarcasm]

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @radda.8920 said:

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    If your argument is that the community does not allow growth: The community is going to swallow anything as long as it is good, even if before they only insulted and said it would not work.

    At the pvp level, this community wants absolutely nothing new. If you follow this forum, reddit and the competitive players, they want to stick with their minable cap mode and that's it. Guild wars 1 was a very varied game in terms of pvp, we had tons of different modes, the players were open to a lot of things. But on this game it's a disaster, honestly I have never seen that on any mmo I played.
    The pvp has hardly evolved in 9 long years, never seen it before and it is absolutely not arena's fault

    As for the pve, as soon as you mention the word ''challenge'', 90% of players are complaining that guild wars 2 is not made for that ... this partly explains why the raids were abandoned and that there is so few fractals added.
    the majority of gw2 players want pve which is limited to following a bus and killing motionless bosses without mechanics, it's like that, we have to deal with it or leave this game unfortunately

    that's why I told you that your idea is not bad but there is no chance that it happens because of the players.
    Mounts could be add in the game, because it remains a basic feature that does not require any involvement to improve your skill so the players weren't totally against that

    There is so much misinformation in this response. Let me clear a few things up:

    1. Wanting new pvp content is the #2 thing that is always being discussed in the pvp subforum, 2nd only to #1 being game balance. People definitely want new pvp content.
    2. Saying it is not Arenanet's fault for having pvp not evolve in 9 years is quite the statement when we are promised things like Alliances in wvw and then it never happens.
    3. People in pve LOVE new challenging content. People love getting new fractals or challenges with achievements attached, things like Beetle Races to do, something else to master. Saying otherwise and choosing to example "Why Raids were abandoned" was the absolute most convoluted and misdirecting topic you could that you could possibly chosen. Raids were abandoned not because they are too difficult mechanically, but because they are too much of a hassle IRL to organize. People like challenging content that is solo, for example the Crown Pavilion and figuring out how to beat Liadri ect ect. <- Those kinds of challenges are done on a players own individual time and doesn't require organizing some specific day and time with 9 other people. It's not that people don't like challenging content, it's that they don't like content that is too much of a hassle to organize. This is why guild missions aren't ran regularly although they are actually very easy, because they are a hassle organize.
    4. Saying players just want "to motionless boss kill" is simply not true. When PoF was released it received great praise from the community because a lot of boss content provided was just organized a lot better than any previous content, mechanically. People also widely revere and discuss T4CM fractal boss mechanics. Many people play fractals, because it isn't an ultra difficult activity to organize. Being able to get the title to be in and play with strong 100CM groups is no more difficult than Raiding, it's just its' a lot easier to organize.

    People like and want challenging content. People do not like content that is too much of a hassle to organize before even getting started.

  • Tsakhi.8124Tsakhi.8124 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aavataris.5720 said:
    Good day.
    Seeing that the Draconic Response missions work at least "well", and can be bether, I wanted to raise an idea that I have been turning around for a long time (please read a few paragraphs before crucifying it, I will be brief):


    Imagine ending the story of the Fractals (in any of its 4 difficulties) and in Lion's Arch, outside the Fractals, another azura appears saying that “it is very unstable to study separate fractals, I have found a new mega-fractal”.

    This Azura allows you and your team (from 1 to 5 people) to enter this mega-fractal (a version of the previous Lion's Arch, like another dimension) with all the other maps that already exist (maybe with a filter that makes them look more gloomy and dangerous), but without the NPCs and with an ¡¡insane enemies difficulty!!, that increases as you move away from Lion's Arch …and no Fast Travel Points (no fast travel and no self resurrection).

    So kind of like the upside-down castle in Castlevania: Symphonyof the Night?

    So, the objective is:
    Travel in all this public maps, from the center to the edges (increasing the difficulty), fighting against maps full of monsters and bosses of the highest level and difficulty, struggling to go to next map, using all the tools and skills unlocked in PvE, without being able to leave (except to do MvM and PvP, with their respective menus), having to plan strategies, build groups, meeting other players who try survive, to reach the edge. A true adventure that can take days, organizeing teams or meeting new allies.

    So, to make sure I'm understanding: The starting area is in the center and you're trying to work your way outwards, towards a fringe of sorts, where you're able to proceed to the next area and the only way you can leave this instance is in the event of a wipe? If this is the case, what happens if there's a disconnect? What happens if there's an emergency? Can you continue on without the person, like normal, or do you have to wait?

    In this way:

    • With a minimum of extra programming, ANET can recycle ALL maps, but expanding a lot of content and a new mode (already tested in a small version).
    • If your entire team dies, they have to start over from Lion's Arch (they can revive each other, if at least 1 survives).
    • You have to advance in extreme difficulty, and with a real challenge, but with great rewards.
    • If you exchange characters within the mega-fractal, they appear in the same place as the previous one (without affecting the exploration of the PvE map of each character), allowing to reformulate the strategies and functions in the team. Upon exiting the mega-fractal, each character returns to where it was.
    • Meals, armor repair, potions and teamwork take on real importance, having to stock up before starting.

    Extras (they are only alternatives to consider, do not condemn the original idea if you do not like one):
    1) Clan War:

    <--snip because Clan wars is basically a modified WvW scenario

    I mean, you may not respond, but I'm trying to understand.

    "How so big the sea hills how so deep the blue beneath.
    Hail from the main and comest thou home."

    Sigrdrífumál
    Նոտ ենուղ պատիենծե
    Will work for hugs and head pets.
    Also food.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 19, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    @Aavataris.5720 said:

    @radda.8920 said:

    For years I suggested mounts in forums, each time I was insulted and discredited with silly things ...now there are mounts and they work very well.

    If your argument is that the community does not allow growth: The community is going to swallow anything as long as it is good, even if before they only insulted and said it would not work.

    At the pvp level, this community wants absolutely nothing new. If you follow this forum, reddit and the competitive players, they want to stick with their minable cap mode and that's it. Guild wars 1 was a very varied game in terms of pvp, we had tons of different modes, the players were open to a lot of things. But on this game it's a disaster, honestly I have never seen that on any mmo I played.
    The pvp has hardly evolved in 9 long years, never seen it before and it is absolutely not arena's fault

    As for the pve, as soon as you mention the word ''challenge'', 90% of players are complaining that guild wars 2 is not made for that ... this partly explains why the raids were abandoned and that there is so few fractals added.
    the majority of gw2 players want pve which is limited to following a bus and killing motionless bosses without mechanics, it's like that, we have to deal with it or leave this game unfortunately

    that's why I told you that your idea is not bad but there is no chance that it happens because of the players.
    Mounts could be add in the game, because it remains a basic feature that does not require any involvement to improve your skill so the players weren't totally against that

    There is so much misinformation in this response. Let me clear a few things up:

    1. Wanting new pvp content is the #2 thing that is always being discussed in the pvp subforum, 2nd only to #1 being game balance. People definitely want new pvp content.
    2. Saying it is not Arenanet's fault for having pvp not evolve in 9 years is quite the statement when we are promised things like Alliances in wvw and then it never happens.
    3. People in pve LOVE new challenging content. People love getting new fractals or challenges with achievements attached, things like Beetle Races to do, something else to master. Saying otherwise and choosing to example "Why Raids were abandoned" was the absolute most convoluted and misdirecting topic you could that you could possibly chosen. Raids were abandoned not because they are too difficult mechanically, but because they are too much of a hassle IRL to organize. People like challenging content that is solo, for example the Crown Pavilion and figuring out how to beat Liadri ect ect. <- Those kinds of challenges are done on a players own individual time and doesn't require organizing some specific day and time with 9 other people. It's not that people don't like challenging content, it's that they don't like content that is too much of a hassle to organize. This is why guild missions aren't ran regularly although they are actually very easy, because they are a hassle organize.
    4. Saying players just want "to motionless boss kill" is simply not true. When PoF was released it received great praise from the community because a lot of boss content provided was just organized a lot better than any previous content, mechanically. People also widely revere and discuss T4CM fractal boss mechanics. Many people play fractals, because it isn't an ultra difficult activity to organize. Being able to get the title to be in and play with strong 100CM groups is no more difficult than Raiding, it's just its' a lot easier to organize.

    People like and want challenging content. People do not like content that is too much of a hassle to organize before even getting started.

    I totally disagree with you, you have to live in a parallel dimension.
    Already, pve players who are doing T4 / cm fractals and raid, it should barely represent 10/15% of the community if i am generous. Most gamers run away from this type of content or can't even get past t2 / t3 fractals.

    Then I don't know if we're playing the same game, you and me, but the level is extremely low overall. Players who know how to cc correctly,avoid, move into space or adapt their build can be counted on the fingers of one hand. For example on bosses like drakkar or the jormag claw, I'm always amazed to see the number of players on the ground, it's terrible ....
    the same for instantiated content, if you don't do research with ' '250 li / 250 kp "You struggle to finish the missions. No the level is extremely low, I don't see how a majority of these players could ask for a challenge when they already spend their time dying on a childish content

    Finally, you just have to see on this forum, at the slightest update, you instantly have dozens of subjects crying out loud. The latest example being DRM, how many times have I seen gamers complaining that it was too hard instead of trying to improve.

    Not frankly my experience in game and on the forums is the opposite of your message. I still see a large majority of players who barely know how to play basic content and want absolutely no difficulty, just good rewards ... players who want challenge, it must represent 5/10% of the community so too few people to make arena want to realease difficult missions / bosses. They target players who will bring them money, that's why the content adapts to this type of player and has no difficulty at all.

    As for POF, the level of this extension is very low, we are light years away from HOT in its early days. Metas do not require any organization, you can do all the major events by rolling your head on the keyboard. The only small difficulties come from the djinns and the hydras with bounties . Other than that, I don't know what you're talking about in terms of the challenge and the mechanics ...
    Just after the release of hot, the level had risen so much that many players cried on the forum. it led to a drastic drop of the difficulty in game to gradually arrive at the level of the saga: zerg bus spam 1, no more raid, one fractal every year.

    But let's be clear, I don't despise players who are not good or don't want difficulty. It's just that we have to stop saying that the community asks for the challenge, it's a pure lie or a denial of reality.
    you just have to get used to it and enjoy the atmosphere of the game, it's the only interesting thing left in pve. And on the pvp side, the game is dead and buried.

  • Katary.7096Katary.7096 Member ✭✭✭

    When the suggestion starts off with the assumption that DRMs are being received positively I have to wonder where the author got their information from. In a game where Fractals, Raids and Strike Missions are not successful enough to see consistent support, OP's idea would be dead on arrival.

    @radda.8920 said:
    The pvp has hardly evolved in 9 long years, never seen it before and it is absolutely not arena's fault

    When the developers tried to evolve sPvP they came up with stuff like Minstrel bunker Chrono and Stronghold, how are they not responsible for that?

  • @Aavataris.5720 said:

    1) That is why it is necessary that they be PvP ZONES and not the entire map.

    2) PvP is an optional and extra, but aimed at finally materializing the GUILD wars, in a way that does not interfere with the rest.

    3) Yes, it takes up more instance space, which would be minimal. No more than what each instance of the new game modes occupies.
    In addition, it is not a PvP + PvE, it is mainly a PvE of increased difficulty and in cooperative survival mode and with areas focused on clan warfare.

    4) with you I could be "civilized". With the previous 2 who immediately commented on something negative and / or inventory things just to tear down the idea, I will not be "civilized".

    Thank you for your comment and indeed try to dialogue, do not seek to be negative

    One thing I would like to point out that many people misinterpret. “Guild wars” the actual wars happened before even the original guild wars game story happened. Guild wars doesn’t happen in the games. So please read into the lore before you say that there needs to be “guild wars” in guild wars 2.

    I’m not seeking to be negative. I’m simply giving my opinion. Sadly your idea is not to my tastes. If perhaps it was a suggestion for WvW. Then I would be happy to add things but bringing PvP and PvE together is not my forte. Even if it’s an “option” I don’t particularly like the idea of someone poking me to fight while I’m fighting hard/raid level bosses.