Tips to Become a Fearsome Ranger of Roaming Devastation (and friendly wvw love) — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Tips to Become a Fearsome Ranger of Roaming Devastation (and friendly wvw love)

Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

Heya ranger forum, I recently switched to ranger after a lot of years roaming as a core warrior, and I have to say, it's a great class you've got. I'm currently running a WS lb/gs soulbeast, but I've experimented with several power and condi builds and just love how many viable options there seem to be to do a variety of things. So far, I've only explored core and soulbeast, but I'll get to druid eventually.

Anyway, I was hoping some of you would be willing to share some tips to help me learn the class better, and in particular when facing particular classes and/or 1vx situations. I'm not really struggling or anything, rather just looking for ways to improve and otherwise squeeze even more fun out of the class.

First, the build I'm currently running:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlFwAZhsHmJeSXrvzSm2bA-zVIYRU9fKtpAyUI0rEolRgaOIhxfLVZGB-w

Second, the opponents I often struggle with (looking for any tips when using the build linked above, or other builds that might be more suited to the task):

Thieves
Most types, unless I catch them at range with the lb. For them, I've learned not to blow everything at once (which only catches poor or distracted thieves), preferring to let lb2 track them if go into stealth, and then using sic'em after that to really pressure. But I find decent thieves can wreck me pretty hard if they tie me up in melee. This is true with the condi builds I've tried too.

Elementalists
More the really tanky ones that can lead to prolonged fights, but also Fresh Air eles. I have better luck with the latter and enjoy the fights more, but a well played Fresh Air ele can still be beastly. I suspect what I probably need here is a better understanding of ele than of ranger, but any tips you have on putting either type down would be more than welcome.

Third, just anything about the ranger generally that you've found especially fun or effective while roaming around in wvw.

Anyway, this is already a long post. Thanks in advance for anything you're able to share.

I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

Comments

  • http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlRwAZPsQGKOeXrP7Sm2bA-zVIYRU9fIZKF6VB0yIQgHkw4vliMjA-w

    Your missing out on alot of burst not taking marksmen. Charging into a worldy impact will poop on people. Follow up with hilt bash and maul. You have an all in build without the all in damage.
    Bit weaker condi cleanse here so kite often until your burst is up

    As far as ele goes. They are weak to ranged pressure if not running focus. Kite them out and wait for an opportunity to burst into them. Stunning them while water overloading is ideal. If you heavy pressure them after leaving water then they lose some ability to recover. If all else fails run because they cant catch you

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlRwAZPsQGKOeXrP7Sm2bA-zVIYRU9fIZKF6VB0yIQgHkw4vliMjA-w

    Your missing out on alot of burst not taking marksmen. Charging into a worldy impact will poop on people. Follow up with hilt bash and maul. You have an all in build without the all in damage.
    Bit weaker condi cleanse here so kite often until your burst is up

    As far as ele goes. They are weak to ranged pressure if not running focus. Kite them out and wait for an opportunity to burst into them. Stunning them while water overloading is ideal. If you heavy pressure them after leaving water then they lose some ability to recover. If all else fails run because they cant catch you

    Hey, thanks for your reply. I started out with Marksmanship when I began exploring power ranger, but it was before I appreciated how the attack of opportunity and opening strike mechanics worked, and it could be that I chose the wrong traits. The glass canon build i used (using the gear in my original link) actually used Skirmishing. It's got some nice damage, but I'll try out your build.

    I did notice you've got more defense built into your gear than I do though. Guess we'll have to see how good my positioning is using my gear on your build, or do you think I'd be a fool if I didn't use tankier runes and consumables to deal with condi pressure?

    On a related note, I stumbled across some #MRGA videos using a variety of builds that feature a+a/s+wh, or a similar combination. It looks to me like it's usually using WS, SB, and BM at least so,e of the time, but the gear isn't glassy. Is this likely some boonbeast variant? If so, do you have any thoughts on it?

    Link below (it's a super fun video), and thanks again!

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • @Choppy.4183 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlRwAZPsQGKOeXrP7Sm2bA-zVIYRU9fIZKF6VB0yIQgHkw4vliMjA-w

    Your missing out on alot of burst not taking marksmen. Charging into a worldy impact will poop on people. Follow up with hilt bash and maul. You have an all in build without the all in damage.
    Bit weaker condi cleanse here so kite often until your burst is up

    As far as ele goes. They are weak to ranged pressure if not running focus. Kite them out and wait for an opportunity to burst into them. Stunning them while water overloading is ideal. If you heavy pressure them after leaving water then they lose some ability to recover. If all else fails run because they cant catch you

    Hey, thanks for your reply. I started out with Marksmanship when I began exploring power ranger, but it was before I appreciated how the attack of opportunity and opening strike mechanics worked, and it could be that I chose the wrong traits. The glass canon build i used (using the gear in my original link) actually used Skirmishing. It's got some nice damage, but I'll try out your build.

    I did notice you've got more defense built into your gear than I do though. Guess we'll have to see how good my positioning is using my gear on your build, or do you think I'd be a fool if I didn't use tankier runes and consumables to deal with condi pressure?

    On a related note, I stumbled across some #MRGA videos using a variety of builds that feature a+a/s+wh, or a similar combination. It looks to me like it's usually using WS, SB, and BM at least so,e of the time, but the gear isn't glassy. Is this likely some boonbeast variant? If so, do you have any thoughts on it?

    Link below (it's a super fun video), and thanks again!

    Maybe. Nature magic isnt a requirement for boonbeaast, but it does help keep boons up.

    And you need reliable condi cleanse or immunity in any build imo

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry I read the title and I had to rub my eyes because I thought someone had typed something strangely funny. WvW Ranger love. I think I nearly choked on my pepsi.

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2021

    @KeyOrion.9506 said:
    Sorry I read the title and I had to rub my eyes because I thought someone had typed something strangely funny. WvW Ranger love. I think I nearly choked on my pepsi.

    I wish I could take credit for being so witty, but I sadly have no idea what you might be referring to (that's how new I am to ranger). Regardless.....

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • Grey.3179Grey.3179 Member ✭✭

    Biff, I have seen you around wvw many times. Love the guild tag, lol. Welcome to the ranger party.

    Thunderfro The Grey ~ Darkhaven by way of BP~ [HART]

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Grey.3179 said:
    Biff, I have seen you around wvw many times. Love the guild tag, lol. Welcome to the ranger party.

    Haha, thanks! I know the HART tag well too. Double thanks if you were one of the rangers who's kindly given me tips in the field as I make my way through every variation of the class I can beg, borrow, steal, or dream up. <3

    I think my next round of experiments is going to focus on modified boonbeast builds, similar to what I saw in the video above. Though I have some ideas of how to make it fit best with how I like to roam.

    Maybe see you out there. ;)

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    pew pew, swap to gs, maul or block, stealth, pew pew rinse and repeat

  • meerfunkuhtron.9725meerfunkuhtron.9725 Member ✭✭
    edited March 9, 2021

    Been a ranger main from the beginning and I'm still learning more things about the class just by switching to a weapon I never tried before. So I'm glad that you're seeing the various potentials that could be found in this class!
    That said, just wanted to add to the discussion. Keep in mind, I'm a returning player so some knowledge might be outdated but I'll do my best to base my responses on my current experience as I've been playing again for almost 2 months now.
    With Marskmanship, I do agree that it adds a high boost when paired with BM. Remorseless is especially nice.
    Though I also agree with the other comment about using Nature Magic (atm, I use a combo of BM, NM, and SB trait lines) if you find yourself lacking in survivability. I find that it helps me sustain damage too since the extra boons and boon duration means I'm getting bonuses to my damage at all times. Against condi especially, that extra protection boon really helps in general because of Second Skin, and I've found that I can almost run without condi removal most of the time- almost!
    NM might also help you with thieves. I remember a time back then when thieves would try to gank me but then my protection boon activates (Protective Ward trait) and I get close to no damage at all from some of their bursts. So that may be something you can try and see if it still works in putting less pressure on you when dealing with them.

    I have a question for you though, since you're running with WS. Is it working for you in terms of dealing with condis? I used to run WS before I took my break, and when I came back, I switched to the others just to try something new. I'm just wondering how well it's still fairing.

  • meerfunkuhtron.9725meerfunkuhtron.9725 Member ✭✭
    edited March 9, 2021

    Just wanted to add... I just watched the video you shared and it was a joy to watch. I'm so happy to see the set-up I used to similarly have still working :3 I've been using LB, as I mentioned, but I've become so frustrated with targeting issues so I might try using Axe/Warhorn again for the memories!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nature Magic is not recommended for power builds, you want to end fights as quickly as possible while maintaning a relatively high sustain/dmg ratio and enough escape tools to avoid ganks .

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:
    Been a ranger main from the beginning and I'm still learning more things about the class just by switching to a weapon I never tried before. So I'm glad that you're seeing the various potentials that could be found in this class!
    That said, just wanted to add to the discussion. Keep in mind, I'm a returning player so some knowledge might be outdated but I'll do my best to base my responses on my current experience as I've been playing again for almost 2 months now.
    With Marskmanship, I do agree that it adds a high boost when paired with BM. Remorseless is especially nice.
    Though I also agree with the other comment about using Nature Magic (atm, I use a combo of BM, NM, and SB trait lines) if you find yourself lacking in survivability. I find that it helps me sustain damage too since the extra boons and boon duration means I'm getting bonuses to my damage at all times. Against condi especially, that extra protection boon really helps in general because of Second Skin, and I've found that I can almost run without condi removal most of the time- almost!
    NM might also help you with thieves. I remember a time back then when thieves would try to gank me but then my protection boon activates (Protective Ward trait) and I get close to no damage at all from some of their bursts. So that may be something you can try and see if it still works in putting less pressure on you when dealing with them.

    I have a question for you though, since you're running with WS. Is it working for you in terms of dealing with condis? I used to run WS before I took my break, and when I came back, I switched to the others just to try something new. I'm just wondering how well it's still fairing.

    If dealing with condi heralds and thieves, it won't be enough even if you dodge most of the incoming burst(condi rev is all about the mace CC rotation and Mallyx leap/aoe - where condi thief is about loaded steal that applies loads of condis followed by pewpew pistol)It really depends on the skill level involved, you can get away with just WS and Bear stance with soulbeast or NM evasive purity core build if the condi rev is bad/average while even average condi thief will wear down these builds.

    There are different variations of condi thief from DE immobilie to core steal or pewpew core, all rely on stealth to get burst and get away so ...I wouldn't know really, I have a dedicated anti-condi soulbeast build with resistance runes and condi based to bypass these dire/trailblazer , it works quite well against condi heralds of all levels but about condit thief...even met a good one in months but I suspect it would ends in a draw or with me running

    There is also condi mirage, extremely rare but still alive and kicking and against that, the anti condi soulbeast still works to a degree but it's an uphill battle, in which case I rely on power druid for mass condi clear and slowy wear down the mesmer.

    Overall there is no correct answer against condi builds when played well, with stats like dire and trailblazer you should either play a glass cannon +1 build or do your best on a duellist build with as much condi clear as possible

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • meerfunkuhtron.9725meerfunkuhtron.9725 Member ✭✭
    edited March 9, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Overall there is no correct answer against condi builds when played well, with stats like dire and trailblazer you should either play a glass cannon +1 build or do your best on a duellist build with as much condi clear as possible

    I see. Thanks for giving some info. I used to actually run a semi tanky boon bot power Soulbeast that worked quite well against condis. I'm yet to test it again on whether it has viability nowadays.

    Nature Magic is not recommended for power builds, you want to end fights as quickly as possible while maintaning a relatively high sustain/dmg ratio and enough escape tools to avoid ganks .

    I'm in the process of continuing to test my build but so far, I'm seeing positive results with me using NM as a power SB. It might depend on how I play in general, so to me, it's always worth at least testing a bit even if it's not the most recommended out there. Would like to add that I understand why it isn't picked up as much though, and I won't recommend it to players who mainly just want to burst things down as quick as possible (which is not how I play).

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2021

    i’m pretty sure the best way to deal with condi, unless you wanna play mostly sustain, is go full zerk / assassins with rotation defense, like blocks, evades and stealth from weapons that prevent you from being hit in the first place, along with a bunch of condi cleanse. if you go sustain route you won’t be able to beat them easily without cleanse as condi thrives in long fights, and the fight will be long unless you run very offensive stats, as condi usually always comes with dire or trailblazer stats which are very tanky. it’s in your best interest to finish the fight asap. especially since you might not be able to help your team vs that condi build.

    and again, keep in mind, you’re not dying to condi dmg regardless of build most of the time, the problem is things like chill, cripple, slow, immobilize. that’s what actually kills you. so even if you get by with very little condi cleanse cus of second skin you’re gonna lose to a decent condi player rather quickly. especially if they have boon corrupt, which is your biggest enemy if you’re playing with NM instead of WS, since you have 15s between protection procs from the trait.

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021

    @meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:
    I have a question for you though, since you're running with WS. Is it working for you in terms of dealing with condis? I used to run WS before I took my break, and when I came back, I switched to the others just to try something new. I'm just wondering how well it's still fairing.

    For the most part, condis don't cause me too much grief mostly due to damage pressure and mobility. If my heal (which drops 4 condis and can be precast to counter condi damage for a time) and switching to/from beastmode (drops another 2) isn't cutting it, I can stack protection and dolyaks to get -66% condi damage for a time. The latter is really the main play, because it increases the window to apply damage pressure, which puts people on the back foot and reduces pressure on me.

    Keep in mind that I'm (solo) roaming around most of the time, so if I need to cut and run I will. As bigo noted, I still have stealth from lb3, plenty of dodges, and a block/evade from gs4, plus I have decent cc. That combined with the mobility, pressure, and cc, I can handle condi heavy builds of most types through careful planning. Thieves still cause trouble, though.

    @meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:
    Just wanted to add... I just watched the video you shared and it was a joy to watch. I'm so happy to see the set-up I used to similarly have still working :3 I've been using LB, as I mentioned, but I've become so frustrated with targeting issues so I might try using Axe/Warhorn again for the memories!

    I tried something like it last night but couldn't make it work as well as my earlier build. Just couldn't get the burst where I wanted it (may need more tweaking), and the loss of mobility and other perks was hard to get past. May be the build I cooked up, or may be that I just don't know how to play it well yet.

    I might go back to it, but I've got another build idea that will still use lb plus sword with either warhorn or axe in the offhand. It's even weaker to condis, but it's fun to just explore these things.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:
    I have a question for you though, since you're running with WS. Is it working for you in terms of dealing with condis? I used to run WS before I took my break, and when I came back, I switched to the others just to try something new. I'm just wondering how well it's still fairing.

    For the most part, condis don't cause me too much grief mostly due to damage pressure and mobility. If my heal (which drops 4 condis and can be precast to counter condi damage for a time) and switching to/from beastmode (drops another 2) isn't cutting it, I can stack protection and dolyaks to get -66% condi damage for a time. The latter is really the main play, because it increases the window to apply damage pressure, which puts people on the back foot and reduces pressure on me.

    Keep in mind that I'm (solo) roaming around most of the time, so if I need to cut and run I will. As bigo noted, I still have stealth from lb3, plenty of dodges, and a block/evade from gs4, plus I have decent cc. That combined with the mobility, pressure, and cc, I can handle condi heavy builds of most types through careful planning. Thieves still cause trouble, though.

    @meerfunkuhtron.9725 said:
    Just wanted to add... I just watched the video you shared and it was a joy to watch. I'm so happy to see the set-up I used to similarly have still working :3 I've been using LB, as I mentioned, but I've become so frustrated with targeting issues so I might try using Axe/Warhorn again for the memories!

    I tried something like it last night but couldn't make it work as well as my earlier build. Just couldn't get the burst where I wanted it (may need more tweaking), and the loss of mobility and other perks was hard to get past. May be the build I cooked up, or may be that I just don't know how to play it well yet.

    I might go back to it, but I've got another build idea that will still use lb plus sword with either warhorn or axe in the offhand. It's even weaker to condis, but it's fun to just explore these things.

    Thieves are always an issue when mastered due to the unblockable nature of some of its attacks plus basilisk venom elite which can make thieves that much more annoying to fight, some others use dagger storm to apply pressure and recover defenses, all in all fighting thieves is never a joy ride.

    They have plenty of ways to screw you up while you have very few to punish them in case they do a set of mistakes

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Thieves are always an issue when mastered due to the unblockable nature of some of its attacks plus basilisk venom elite which can make thieves that much more annoying to fight, some others use dagger storm to apply pressure and recover defenses, all in all fighting thieves is never a joy ride.

    They have plenty of ways to screw you up while you have very few to punish them in case they do a set of mistakes

    Indeed. I've been watching some videos about them, especially the one from Vallun's helpful series, "How to fight _____" to identify common opening behavior and build tells that will help me a counter them better.

    Positioning myself on or near their port circles (where they'll return), better estimating when they'll steal (daredevils have to be closer), moving through them in melee to mess up their pistol attacks (like how they mess up our ranged attacks), standing on spaces they can't port to, putting terrain to my back, keeping distance from condi thieves (they need to come in close to do much burst, and they have mobility contraints), have all helped a bunch.

    A couple ranger specific things I've picked up include not using Sic Em and rapid fire at the same time unless it seems like an inexperienced thief or one that's blown some defenses. Instead, it's better to use rapid fire when they're about to stealth so it tracks through it (may need to precast stab in case they try to interrupt you as defense) and then use sic em afterwards to further limit their stealth time. I've also found s+a more useful than gs against them in melee. I just slotted durability runes, and that helps take some of the bite out of the initial burst too. (Nature Magic would do the same, I guess, but I'm not running it).

    That all said, it's still a learning curve, and also dependent in the skill of the thieves I'm fighting.

    Since we're on the subject of things that give/gave me trouble, eles are less of a problem now. Picking up on FrownyClown's advice above (and Vallun's video about them), I save my burst for when they're attuned to fire or air, especially if they just left water. Though I haven't tried it, if I was duelling or dealing with an especially annoying ele, I might slot Signet of the Hunt and/or warhorn to ruin their reflects. Fresh Air eles remain the exciting challenge they should be, and I don't mind a bit if they roast me because I know they're taking risks to get that damage, and I can (and have) make them pay for it if I play well.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Thieves are always an issue when mastered due to the unblockable nature of some of its attacks plus basilisk venom elite which can make thieves that much more annoying to fight, some others use dagger storm to apply pressure and recover defenses, all in all fighting thieves is never a joy ride.

    They have plenty of ways to screw you up while you have very few to punish them in case they do a set of mistakes

    Indeed. I've been watching some videos about them, especially the one from Vallun's helpful series, "How to fight _____" to identify common opening behavior and build tells that will help me a counter them better.

    Positioning myself on or near their port circles (where they'll return), better estimating when they'll steal (daredevils have to be closer), moving through them in melee to mess up their pistol attacks (like how they mess up our ranged attacks), standing on spaces they can't port to, putting terrain to my back, keeping distance from condi thieves (they need to come in close to do much burst, and they have mobility contraints), have all helped a bunch.

    A couple ranger specific things I've picked up include not using Sic Em and rapid fire at the same time unless it seems like an inexperienced thief or one that's blown some defenses. Instead, it's better to use rapid fire when they're about to stealth so it tracks through it (may need to precast stab in case they try to interrupt you as defense) and then use sic em afterwards to further limit their stealth time. I've also found s+a more useful than gs against them in melee. I just slotted durability runes, and that helps take some of the bite out of the initial burst too. (Nature Magic would do the same, I guess, but I'm not running it).

    That all said, it's still a learning curve, and also dependent in the skill of the thieves I'm fighting.

    Since we're on the subject of things that give/gave me trouble, eles are less of a problem now. Picking up on FrownyClown's advice above (and Vallun's video about them), I save my burst for when they're attuned to fire or air, especially if they just left water. Though I haven't tried it, if I was duelling or dealing with an especially annoying ele, I might slot Signet of the Hunt and/or warhorn to ruin their reflects. Fresh Air eles remain the exciting challenge they should be, and I don't mind a bit if they roast me because I know they're taking risks to get that damage, and I can (and have) make them pay for it if I play well.

    SA thief will win vs ranger pretty much every time unless the thief is playing really poorly. just saying. there’s not much you can do. best you can hope for is stalling the fight but most likely they will end up wearing you down eventually anyway, i’d suggest just running to safe spot. don’t get me wrong ofc there are plenty of bad thieves so you will probably be fine. but any SA thief who knows what they’re doing will beat you regardless of how well you play. it’s just a matter of them being in stealth too much where you can’t hurt them. unless they screw up SO badly that your rapidfire kills them when they try to stealth despite the fact they have the ability to interrupt you, dodge through the entire cast.

    from what i see the fight usually goes like this:

    thief engages on you first, stealthing up out of your range. you trade a few hits, if you block, they will interrupt it with steal. if you try to use LB you will likely get blinded or interrupted by pistol. but hopefully you get a bit of dmg in. maybe you have to use 1 utility and most likely a heal to recover from their backstab. but before you know it they are already stealthed. if you use sicem now, they will dodge and or use daggerstorm followed by steal or stealth. if you don’t use it, they just stealth. they wait 6-10s so you can’t predict when the next attack will be, you get hit first again.

    this rotation repeats INDEFINITELY until you are out of defensive utilities and heals. most likely you will be around 50% at a time when they have stealth, desperately waiting for heal to come off cooldown but they will strike you first.

    the nature of SA thief is that you just have too much utility to deal with the problems you face. being able to stealth for more than 5s at a time, AT ANY TIME is the biggest problem. they will trade hits, even if it seems like they lose it doesn’t matter, they can just stealth and wear you down little by little every time until you’re out of utilities and defenses.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    Thieves are always an issue when mastered due to the unblockable nature of some of its attacks plus basilisk venom elite which can make thieves that much more annoying to fight, some others use dagger storm to apply pressure and recover defenses, all in all fighting thieves is never a joy ride.

    They have plenty of ways to screw you up while you have very few to punish them in case they do a set of mistakes

    Indeed. I've been watching some videos about them, especially the one from Vallun's helpful series, "How to fight _____" to identify common opening behavior and build tells that will help me a counter them better.

    Positioning myself on or near their port circles (where they'll return), better estimating when they'll steal (daredevils have to be closer), moving through them in melee to mess up their pistol attacks (like how they mess up our ranged attacks), standing on spaces they can't port to, putting terrain to my back, keeping distance from condi thieves (they need to come in close to do much burst, and they have mobility contraints), have all helped a bunch.

    A couple ranger specific things I've picked up include not using Sic Em and rapid fire at the same time unless it seems like an inexperienced thief or one that's blown some defenses. Instead, it's better to use rapid fire when they're about to stealth so it tracks through it (may need to precast stab in case they try to interrupt you as defense) and then use sic em afterwards to further limit their stealth time. I've also found s+a more useful than gs against them in melee. I just slotted durability runes, and that helps take some of the bite out of the initial burst too. (Nature Magic would do the same, I guess, but I'm not running it).

    That all said, it's still a learning curve, and also dependent in the skill of the thieves I'm fighting.

    Since we're on the subject of things that give/gave me trouble, eles are less of a problem now. Picking up on FrownyClown's advice above (and Vallun's video about them), I save my burst for when they're attuned to fire or air, especially if they just left water. Though I haven't tried it, if I was duelling or dealing with an especially annoying ele, I might slot Signet of the Hunt and/or warhorn to ruin their reflects. Fresh Air eles remain the exciting challenge they should be, and I don't mind a bit if they roast me because I know they're taking risks to get that damage, and I can (and have) make them pay for it if I play well.

    There are far worst ele builds to face than FA scepter : LR d/f , Burning s/f and some tanky burning core d/d ( and I use all 3 of them )

    -LR weavers can easily keep up with superspeed, CC you in lockdown with ranged CC( gale which is unblockable and comet ) once in place LR weaver can quickly rotate earth/air - air/air -fire/air -air/air-air/water and back to earth or water for massive CC dmg and good ones can keep swirling winds+magnetic wave off CD plus stability/barrier/block uptime depending on the utilities used
    -Fire weavers will just burn you to death by just being close to you and at range some will have Signet of Fire at 1/2 cast and sword offers plenty of counterplay vs rangers
    -Bunker weaver water..well this is the ele version of boonbeast so.....
    -Core ele(my variant) has fire/water/earth with cantrips and can stack up to 10k burning dmg with drake's breath alone on top of all other sources of burning/bleed/chill; the earth trait line will make them a nightmare to fight.

    -Don't worry roaming eles are extremely rare...you may meet 2-3 good ones in a year time if unlucky, in that case you'll most likely lose if trying to play fair and square ( which I don't in those cases where I use my power staff druid)

    Then against thieves really your best bet when dealing with pro thieves is core ranger as you rely on pets more than with soulbeast or druid to set up nasty combos, the one I suggest is fairly well known, unlikely used but more than a match for typical soulbeast not invested in boon generation : MM-WS-BM GS/LB with gazelle and bristleback or smokescale or tiger.
    The gazelle is your life saver vs good thieves when using BM line, the insta knockdown when they get close and personal will set up either a juicy combo for you or put the thief on the back door , forcing him in defense mode...allowing you to choose between LB burst/bristleback in case he retreats back or depending on what other pet you use

    General suggestions against SA thieves when they try to play the long game :

    1)Use LB 3 on close AI or enemies , against good thieves always use LB 3 in this way
    2)Do not ever try to use your heal when low while not being stealthed, good thieves will wait it out to interrupt you, at 50% HP use the tip in point 1 then the heal
    3)When they starts stealthing around, start to leg it in the opposite direction, this will force thieves to chase you , that can turn the situation around for you
    4)Count to 3 everytime they stealth depending on the distance from you...then dodge
    5)Watch for basilisk venom, when you it up, count to 3 again and dodge...some times in works and you're fast enough to dodge their steal

    I am not saying you will be able to kill all thieves because in the end you can't kill a thief determined to kite/run all the times but...you can make so they won't kill you either on their own or they may well die if they try, that's how I play in WvW and how my builds are structured: I'll either kill you or I will deny you the kill

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2021

    @bigo.9037 said:
    SA thief will win vs ranger pretty much every time unless the thief is playing really poorly. just saying. there’s not much you can do. best you can hope for is stalling the fight but most likely they will end up wearing you down eventually anyway, i’d suggest just running to safe spot. don’t get me wrong ofc there are plenty of bad thieves so you will probably be fine. but any SA thief who knows what they’re doing will beat you regardless of how well you play. it’s just a matter of them being in stealth too much where you can’t hurt them. unless they screw up SO badly that your rapidfire kills them when they try to stealth despite the fact they have the ability to interrupt you, dodge through the entire cast.

    from what i see the fight usually goes like this:

    thief engages on you first, stealthing up out of your range. you trade a few hits, if you block, they will interrupt it with steal. if you try to use LB you will likely get blinded or interrupted by pistol. but hopefully you get a bit of dmg in. maybe you have to use 1 utility and most likely a heal to recover from their backstab. but before you know it they are already stealthed. if you use sicem now, they will dodge and or use daggerstorm followed by steal or stealth. if you don’t use it, they just stealth. they wait 6-10s so you can’t predict when the next attack will be, you get hit first again.

    this rotation repeats INDEFINITELY until you are out of defensive utilities and heals. most likely you will be around 50% at a time when they have stealth, desperately waiting for heal to come off cooldown but they will strike you first.

    the nature of SA thief is that you just have too much utility to deal with the problems you face. being able to stealth for more than 5s at a time, AT ANY TIME is the biggest problem. they will trade hits, even if it seems like they lose it doesn’t matter, they can just stealth and wear you down little by little every time until you’re out of utilities and defenses.

    For sure. My goal is more improving my skill to put myself in the best possible position, rather than fooling myself into thinking every match will be balanced or to my advantage. Cuts the other way too in that I'm still a bit scrubby with ranger but I've been able to put people down who are more skilled with their classes, just because of build advantage.

    What you described notwithstanding, even good players can be outplayed if they stick to a routine and you don't. Let's face it, especially when roaming around in wvw, we don't always bring our best play to the start of a random fight. If I can develop some good counters to common openers, I may be able to squeak out some wins by punishing lazy game play (and I have, in fact). And, even if I can only delay long enough for a friendly lb ranger or thief to +1 the fight to my advantage and secure the win, I'll take it. 😀

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
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  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 17, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    General suggestions against SA thieves when they try to play the long game :

    1)Use LB 3 on close AI or enemies , against good thieves always use LB 3 in this way
    2)Do not ever try to use your heal when low while not being stealthed, good thieves will wait it out to interrupt you, at 50% HP use the tip in point 1 then the heal
    3)When they starts stealthing around, start to leg it in the opposite direction, this will force thieves to chase you , that can turn the situation around for you
    4)Count to 3 everytime they stealth depending on the distance from you...then dodge
    5)Watch for basilisk venom, when you it up, count to 3 again and dodge...some times in works and you're fast enough to dodge their steal

    I am not saying you will be able to kill all thieves because in the end you can't kill a thief determined to kite/run all the times but...you can make so they won't kill you either on their own or they may well die if they try, that's how I play in WvW and how my builds are structured: I'll either kill you or I will deny you the kill

    Thanks for these. Your comments about pets also reminded me of another key thing I've learned, which is to ummerge (I've been running soulbeast mostly) when I don't need or can't use the merge skills. Like when I want to pressure people breaking LoS, to tag downs when I'm too vulnerable to close, or when I just need to counter pressure while focusing my attention on avoiding their pressure.

    Fair points about ele. I don't know them well, but I appreciate their big tells. I tend to range fire attuned eles, while preferring to melee air eles. Speed Runes is one of the things I've been experimenting with, which has helped my mobility a lot. Haven't come across solid eles since I started playing with Durability Runes though.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    General suggestions against SA thieves when they try to play the long game :

    1)Use LB 3 on close AI or enemies , against good thieves always use LB 3 in this way
    2)Do not ever try to use your heal when low while not being stealthed, good thieves will wait it out to interrupt you, at 50% HP use the tip in point 1 then the heal
    3)When they starts stealthing around, start to leg it in the opposite direction, this will force thieves to chase you , that can turn the situation around for you
    4)Count to 3 everytime they stealth depending on the distance from you...then dodge
    5)Watch for basilisk venom, when you it up, count to 3 again and dodge...some times in works and you're fast enough to dodge their steal

    I am not saying you will be able to kill all thieves because in the end you can't kill a thief determined to kite/run all the times but...you can make so they won't kill you either on their own or they may well die if they try, that's how I play in WvW and how my builds are structured: I'll either kill you or I will deny you the kill

    Thanks for these. Your comments about pets also reminded me of another key thing I've learned, which is to ummerge (I've been running soulbeast mostly) when I don't need or can't use the merge skills. Like when I want to pressure people breaking LoS, to tag downs when I'm too vulnerable to close, or when I just need to counter pressure while focusing my attention on avoiding their pressure.

    Fair points about ele. I don't know them well, but I appreciate their big tells. I tend to range fire attuned eles, while preferring to melee air eles. Speed Runes is one of the things I've been experimenting with, which has helped my mobility a lot. Haven't come across solid eles since I started playing with Durability Runes though.

    It is a good thread because in the end of the day Elementalist and Thief are currently the hardest professions to read for a ranger regardless of the experience, those are same of the highest skill ceiling professions in the game, meaning they can can have several attack patterns at their disposal when mastered , the good players of those can switch between attack plans with little to no delay and it's hard for a ranger to keep up...because by contrast ranger is far more predictable.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    General suggestions against SA thieves when they try to play the long game :

    1)Use LB 3 on close AI or enemies , against good thieves always use LB 3 in this way
    2)Do not ever try to use your heal when low while not being stealthed, good thieves will wait it out to interrupt you, at 50% HP use the tip in point 1 then the heal
    3)When they starts stealthing around, start to leg it in the opposite direction, this will force thieves to chase you , that can turn the situation around for you
    4)Count to 3 everytime they stealth depending on the distance from you...then dodge
    5)Watch for basilisk venom, when you it up, count to 3 again and dodge...some times in works and you're fast enough to dodge their steal

    I am not saying you will be able to kill all thieves because in the end you can't kill a thief determined to kite/run all the times but...you can make so they won't kill you either on their own or they may well die if they try, that's how I play in WvW and how my builds are structured: I'll either kill you or I will deny you the kill

    Thanks for these. Your comments about pets also reminded me of another key thing I've learned, which is to ummerge (I've been running soulbeast mostly) when I don't need or can't use the merge skills. Like when I want to pressure people breaking LoS, to tag downs when I'm too vulnerable to close, or when I just need to counter pressure while focusing my attention on avoiding their pressure.

    Fair points about ele. I don't know them well, but I appreciate their big tells. I tend to range fire attuned eles, while preferring to melee air eles. Speed Runes is one of the things I've been experimenting with, which has helped my mobility a lot. Haven't come across solid eles since I started playing with Durability Runes though.

    Zephyrite runes is an interesting choice if you build around it too

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Zephyrite runes is an interesting choice if you build around it too

    I didn't even know those existed. While more superspeed looks fun, I'm not sure it could compete with permanent +66% speed. Better for bursts, I suppose, and cheaper runes too.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Zephyrite runes is an interesting choice if you build around it too

    I didn't even know those existed. While more superspeed looks fun, I'm not sure it could compete with permanent +66% speed. Better for bursts, I suppose, and cheaper runes too.

    I think speed rune got nerfed to 50% might be pvp only

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Zephyrite runes is an interesting choice if you build around it too

    I didn't even know those existed. While more superspeed looks fun, I'm not sure it could compete with permanent +66% speed. Better for bursts, I suppose, and cheaper runes too.

    I think speed rune got nerfed to 50% might be pvp only

    Yep, just pvp. Remains to be seen if they extend that to wvw, but fingers crossed that they don't.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    I don't particularly enjoy skirmishing against good players with a glassy power build. Maybe it's just a style thing, I don't know. They will projectile-hate or LOS the ranged burst, spike you with condis, and stick on you. For 1v1's, or situations where people aren't paying attention to you, I think it's fine. Good Holos, Thieves, DH's, and Revs are a nightmare. Picking off zerglings as they're running back to suckle the zerg teat is trivial.

    I've really been enjoying condi SB and Druid builds for serious skirmishing and dueling. Both with a combination of Dire and Apothecary gear. Both provide amazing support if you're roaming with buddies via healing and immobilizing. The SB will be doing a lot more damage and overall feels sturdier because of Dolyak Stance, whereas the Druid is there for dazes and Hentai spam. Both are best played with Trapper Runes, although they're not at all required.

    Tldr: for roaming and small gang engagements, sustainey condi builds feel superior.

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    I don't particularly enjoy skirmishing against good players with a glassy power build. Maybe it's just a style thing, I don't know. They will projectile-hate or LOS the ranged burst, spike you with condis, and stick on you. For 1v1's, or situations where people aren't paying attention to you, I think it's fine. Good Holos, Thieves, DH's, and Revs are a nightmare. Picking off zerglings as they're running back to suckle the zerg teat is trivial.

    I've really been enjoying condi SB and Druid builds for serious skirmishing and dueling. Both with a combination of Dire and Apothecary gear. Both provide amazing support if you're roaming with buddies via healing and immobilizing. The SB will be doing a lot more damage and overall feels sturdier because of Dolyak Stance, whereas the Druid is there for dazes and Hentai spam. Both are best played with Trapper Runes, although they're not at all required.

    Tldr: for roaming and small gang engagements, sustainey condi builds feel superior.

    Thanks for that. I actually started with condi builds on ranger, but found thieves ate my lunch pretty quickly, and the lack of mobility prevented escapes when things got hot. I can see how the extra stealth from Trapper runes could help with that though.

    My latest jam has been a super glassy build, and it's been pretty fun. True, if you get focused, it gets rough, but the stealth I do have, plus mobility, evades, and eventually damage pressure (when I shake some heat) make it worthwhile.

    Druid remains the one line I haven't really explored yet. I mostly solo roam, and I just don't like what is has to offer for what I'm giving up. And yet, I can't deny the three selectable traits are yummy.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    I don't particularly enjoy skirmishing against good players with a glassy power build. Maybe it's just a style thing, I don't know. They will projectile-hate or LOS the ranged burst, spike you with condis, and stick on you. For 1v1's, or situations where people aren't paying attention to you, I think it's fine. Good Holos, Thieves, DH's, and Revs are a nightmare. Picking off zerglings as they're running back to suckle the zerg teat is trivial.

    I've really been enjoying condi SB and Druid builds for serious skirmishing and dueling. Both with a combination of Dire and Apothecary gear. Both provide amazing support if you're roaming with buddies via healing and immobilizing. The SB will be doing a lot more damage and overall feels sturdier because of Dolyak Stance, whereas the Druid is there for dazes and Hentai spam. Both are best played with Trapper Runes, although they're not at all required.

    Tldr: for roaming and small gang engagements, sustainey condi builds feel superior.

    Thanks for that. I actually started with condi builds on ranger, but found thieves ate my lunch pretty quickly, and the lack of mobility prevented escapes when things got hot. I can see how the extra stealth from Trapper runes could help with that though.

    My latest jam has been a super glassy build, and it's been pretty fun. True, if you get focused, it gets rough, but the stealth I do have, plus mobility, evades, and eventually damage pressure (when I shake some heat) make it worthwhile.

    Druid remains the one line I haven't really explored yet. I mostly solo roam, and I just don't like what is has to offer for what I'm giving up. And yet, I can't deny the three selectable traits are yummy.

    It's pretty easy to build, you can check out Vallun's roaming guide. Mix of Trailblazer and Apothecary, and it does great in 1vX.

    On the SB, I run with Snow Owl. So you always have a 1200 disengage, and a 5500 heal with resistance (plus the regular heal). You get two stealths + SS from Healing Spring and Poison Trap, and Dolyak is pretty god tier. I haven't lost to any thief 1v1 because of my sustain and immense condi pressure, although they can always leave if they want.

  • @mistsim.2748 said:
    I don't particularly enjoy skirmishing against good players with a glassy power build. Maybe it's just a style thing, I don't know. They will projectile-hate or LOS the ranged burst, spike you with condis, and stick on you. For 1v1's, or situations where people aren't paying attention to you, I think it's fine. Good Holos, Thieves, DH's, and Revs are a nightmare. Picking off zerglings as they're running back to suckle the zerg teat is trivial.

    I've really been enjoying condi SB and Druid builds for serious skirmishing and dueling. Both with a combination of Dire and Apothecary gear. Both provide amazing support if you're roaming with buddies via healing and immobilizing. The SB will be doing a lot more damage and overall feels sturdier because of Dolyak Stance, whereas the Druid is there for dazes and Hentai spam. Both are best played with Trapper Runes, although they're not at all required.

    Tldr: for roaming and small gang engagements, sustainey condi builds feel superior.

    Can you post a build for your condi SB? I’ve been mostly an open word player using Lord Hizens build with d/d and d/t and all trailblazers. I’ve been enjoying smaller skirmishes on WvW and roaming and want to get into it more without having to re-gear. I do have an ascended SB to use instead of the torch.

    I’ve tried this one even though it’s for pvp but it works decently well. It sounds like some things might have been changed since the updates:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/gbmb49/condition_soulbeast_pvp_build_guide/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title

    Thanks!

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    @OneJune.9126 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    I don't particularly enjoy skirmishing against good players with a glassy power build. Maybe it's just a style thing, I don't know. They will projectile-hate or LOS the ranged burst, spike you with condis, and stick on you. For 1v1's, or situations where people aren't paying attention to you, I think it's fine. Good Holos, Thieves, DH's, and Revs are a nightmare. Picking off zerglings as they're running back to suckle the zerg teat is trivial.

    I've really been enjoying condi SB and Druid builds for serious skirmishing and dueling. Both with a combination of Dire and Apothecary gear. Both provide amazing support if you're roaming with buddies via healing and immobilizing. The SB will be doing a lot more damage and overall feels sturdier because of Dolyak Stance, whereas the Druid is there for dazes and Hentai spam. Both are best played with Trapper Runes, although they're not at all required.

    Tldr: for roaming and small gang engagements, sustainey condi builds feel superior.

    Can you post a build for your condi SB? I’ve been mostly an open word player using Lord Hizens build with d/d and d/t and all trailblazers. I’ve been enjoying smaller skirmishes on WvW and roaming and want to get into it more without having to re-gear. I do have an ascended SB to use instead of the torch.

    I’ve tried this one even though it’s for pvp but it works decently well. It sounds like some things might have been changed since the updates:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/gbmb49/condition_soulbeast_pvp_build_guide/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title

    Thanks!

    yup that's the one I use! spvp, and small skirmishes in wvw. should win any 1v1.

  • Dao Jones.6720Dao Jones.6720 Member ✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @OneJune.9126 said:
    I’ve tried this one even though it’s for pvp but it works decently well. It sounds like some things might have been changed since the updates:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/gbmb49/condition_soulbeast_pvp_build_guide/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title

    Thanks!

    yup that's the one I use! spvp, and small skirmishes in wvw. should win any 1v1.

    Out of curiosity, have you made any changes to this build based on your experience? I really want to make Condi Soulbeast work, and I ended up building a very similar build to this one before I found this thread. (Mine was more stance focused, and used Sic ‘em for some burst instead of Poison Trap.)

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dao Jones.6720 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @OneJune.9126 said:
    I’ve tried this one even though it’s for pvp but it works decently well. It sounds like some things might have been changed since the updates:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/gbmb49/condition_soulbeast_pvp_build_guide/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_title

    Thanks!

    yup that's the one I use! spvp, and small skirmishes in wvw. should win any 1v1.

    Out of curiosity, have you made any changes to this build based on your experience? I really want to make Condi Soulbeast work, and I ended up building a very similar build to this one before I found this thread. (Mine was more stance focused, and used Sic ‘em for some burst instead of Poison Trap.)

    The only change I made was adding about 700 healing power because in wvw you can. I didn't build for condi duration, instead I used Dire + Apothecary and it was great.

    You pretty much want Snow Owl all the time for the heal and disengage, although if you wanna just bunker down in one place, Jacaranda is better. Alpine Wolf against power builds.

    I went with Healing Spring for the 3 leap finishers, poison trap, Entangle, Dolyak is necessary, and vulture.

    In terms of runes, Thorns will give you the most pure damage, but Trapper will allow more resets.