Dragonhunter Didn't Get Touched, What?

It's way more toxic than support Warrior or any Revenant build, why? Just why?

Problem with DH is the Trapper Rune, not DH abilities.

I was expecting DH to be nerfed in some way, but I'm actually glad that it didn't happen. The problem isn't with DH, it's clearly Rune of the Trapper. CMC please!

@Shrapnel.7249 said:Problem with DH is the Trapper Rune, not DH abilities.

100% accurate.

Will this bring about the rise of power DH? Am I finally meta?

What a sad day... Who in their right mind would say that guardians are balanced, also nerf Full Counter even further.. Sad.

Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.

@Shao.7236 said:Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.They could give distortion to SB at this point, FC has a laundry list of stuff so it can pretend it is an invuln but no really, it doesn't do damage or much CC.I wonder if it is worth the one less adrenaline bar and level 2 and 3 bursts .

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.They could give distortion to SB at this point, FC has a laundry list of stuff so it can pretend it is an invuln but no really, it doesn't do damage or much CC.I wonder if it is worth the one less adrenaline bar and level 2 and 3 bursts .

Just give it some damage back and it would be fine.

-Meanwhile in the weaver camp...

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.They could give distortion to SB at this point, FC has a laundry list of stuff so it can pretend it is an invuln but no really, it doesn't do damage or much CC.I wonder if it is worth the one less adrenaline bar and level 2 and 3 bursts .

Or even better, it's called full counter. It should return a certain percentage of damage from the last attack. I said that about a year and a half ago.

@Shao.7236 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.They could give distortion to SB at this point, FC has a laundry list of stuff so it can pretend it is an invuln but no really, it doesn't do damage or much CC.I wonder if it is worth the one less adrenaline bar and level 2 and 3 bursts .

That may be hard for them to code up... Not that I disagree. Still it was easy to allow for the negligible damage because of the 2s daze, but now its just a normal daze length, and last I checked other skills that daze like that tend to do damage post CC nerf.

How about just make it a 0.5s daze and give it a 0.75 coefficient in return. That is auto attack levels of damage.

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:That may be hard for them to code up... Not that I disagree. Still it was easy to allow for the negligible damage because of the 2s daze, but now its just a normal daze length, and last I checked other skills that daze like that tend to do damage post CC nerf.

How about just make it a 0.5s daze and give it a 0.75 coefficient in return. That is auto attack levels of damage.

In theory it shouldn't be hard to code, since I'm pretty sure they must have a variable for "incoming damage" which is used for later calculations with dmg reduction/toughness/hp etc.They can just slap "whatever incoming damage" that triggered Full Counter into "outgoing damage*0.75" made by the skill, BUT I have no idea how they've structured their code and it's events or even the language they've used for engine. On top of that, it's probably uber spaghetti.

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:That may be hard for them to code up... Not that I disagree. Still it was easy to allow for the negligible damage because of the 2s daze, but now its just a normal daze length, and last I checked other skills that daze like that tend to do damage post CC nerf.

How about just make it a 0.5s daze and give it a 0.75 coefficient in return. That is auto attack levels of damage.

Yeah, in theory it's possible, and in theory it should be 100% reflected damage, because it is Full Counter, but in reality they are dealing with spaghetti code.

@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Shao.7236 said:

@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Shao.7236 said:Full Counter daze duration added way too much sustain over time for how freely accessed the skill is.

It already counts as a nearly unstoppable evade, having the extra 2 seconds was like making it 250% more effective than a regular one.They could give distortion to SB at this point, FC has a laundry list of stuff so it can pretend it is an invuln but no really, it doesn't do damage or much CC.I wonder if it is worth the one less adrenaline bar and level 2 and 3 bursts .

Well, there are Healing skills that heal player with damage received - so I'm sure they could to the opposite. I think the idea of returning damage rather than having a set number is pretty neat.

They fixed an exploit that was allowing DH to teleport their traps that was being HEAVILY abused by a certain number of DHs in higher rated games and ATs. My guess is they want to see if it still performs at high levels with the abuse removed.

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:They fixed an exploit that was allowing DH to teleport their traps that was being HEAVILY abused by a certain number of DHs in higher rated games and ATs. My guess is they want to see if it still performs at high levels with the abuse removed.

It's not Sword 2 + Maw that is the problem, it's their 1s 20 000 dmg burning from Sword of Justice that is the problem, also Trapper rune.

@Shroud.2307 said:@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

They surely won't remove the daze.

Spellbreaker is a bruiser spec and an integral part of their playstyle is a focus on CC. Just like daredevil has alot more hard CC than core thief or how scrapper can utilise CC for other effects like additional barrier and vulnerability/weakness application.

And removing the daze would be a mechanical change which carries over to PvE, too. Anet is just adjusting numbers for PvP, but the mechanics of the skills are supposed to be the same across all game modes. Removing daze from full counter in PvP would result to the CC being removed for all game modes.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

If it can do 8k damage again sure then take the daze, just make it deal more in PvE.

@Kodama.6453 said:

@Shroud.2307 said:@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

@Bazsi.2734 said:I was expecting DH to be nerfed in some way, but I'm actually glad that it didn't happen. The problem isn't with DH, it's clearly Rune of the Trapper. CMC please!

I still do not understand, after such a long time, ppl still have faith in CMC... CMC might be good at PvP, but how you know that he understand all the classes and can balance properly?

@Shroud.2307 said:@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

Are you kitten serious? FC Deals DMGGGG, wow that 100 something dmg must be soo high. In many duels, it does not matter whether the opponent triggers all the FC yet war cannot win the matchup.

Guardian DH had its strongest combo and decisive teamfight ender removed with the bug fix on maw into sword 2 port.

This thread is a perfect example of this community complaining about things they don't understand. You lot don't even deserve patches cos you have no idea what's going on anyways

@Shroud.2307 said:@ those discussing Full Counter-It's an evade, grants Stability, is unblockable, Dazes, is on a very low cooldown, and deals damage in an area around the Spellbreaker. With traits it has various other effects, but just looking at the baseline it's still pretty frigging strong. Honestly, it should lose the Daze all together as it is already an extremely strong effect. Giving it a little damage back in compensation would be fine.

Personally I don't have much of a problem with Full Counter. I know how to deal with it, and on Necro even how to make it work against them with Corrupt. But objectively speaking, it is a very low risk/high reward skill that even if in its substantially reduced in strength state, is still very strong.Removing the Daze entirely wouldn't destroy the skill assuming it isn't accompanied by any other nerfs. The way I see it, removing the Daze would level it out, adding a little damage back would still be at a good balance. Anything further and it would start to become bad.

Spellbreaker as a whole, and Warrior in general tbh, are a whole other story. It isn't in great shape and could use buffs here and there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have things that aren't overtuned either. A class/spec can still have overperforming aspects even if much of the class/spec is the opposite.

Sounds like the class needs a overhaul then to fix those issues, because it goes deeper, and if so i hope you guys get a overhaul so you can be fun to play and run with whatever build.