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New Necro Elite


Game of Bones.8975

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I think the next Necro Elite should unlock the HAMMER (or mace).

Call it the Tormentor.

I can see one skill splitting the ground and releasing imps (or skeletons) to crawl over the enemy in a 450-600 AoE range causing random conditions such as Torment, Blindness, Fear, Immobilization, etc.

A whack to the head knocks down, interrupts skills, and causes confusion.

You can add your imagination for others.

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Weapons that haven't been unlocked: Mace, Pistol, Sword, Hammer, Longbow, Rifle, and Shortbow.Off-hand only: Shield.

I can't see the shield for a necro.Rifle/Pistol would be fun with the right skills, but I would rather see them with other professions.A longbow/short-bow that rips the soul from the target on a crit may be useful.

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@"Lily.1935" said:Other than a main hand weapon that's just reaper.Nothing in Reaper's kit features Life Stealing.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Life_stealing

And Reaper isn't really designed as a Bruiser.It's supposed to be the DPS spec.

What we need is glasscannon support+damageReaper already fills the support niche and Scourge is support with condition damage.That means, both things you think are needed already have their specializations.Unless Arenanet introduces a terrible -700 Vitality "trade off", a glass cannon builds aren't really possible with Necromancer's design.

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@Fueki.4753 said:And Reaper isn't really designed as a Bruiser.It's supposed to be the DPS spec.Can we define what a bruiser is at this point because I think reaper is 100% designed as a bruiser? It is designed to scale extremely well with power, vita and toughness and has traits to improve crit chance and crit damage for compensation. Even the spec rune has bruiser stats (power and toughness).

In pvp it is not really possible anymore to play it as a bruiser but that more due to amulet removals and nerfs (paladin) but not general reaper design.

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@Fueki.4753 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Other than a main hand weapon that's just reaper.Nothing in Reaper's kit features Life Stealing.

And Reaper isn't really designed as a Bruiser.It's supposed to be the DPS spec.

What we need is glasscannon support+damageReaper already fills the support niche and Scourge is support with condition damage.That means, both things you think are needed already have their specializations.Unless Arenanet introduces a terrible -700 Vitality "trade off", a glass cannon builds aren't really possible with Necromancer's design.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Augury_of_Death

Reaper is anything but a glasscannon. it is one of the most bulky DPS in the game, which is what a bruiser is. a Bulky DPS. A glasscannon is something that takes hits hard, really hard. The reaper can literally walk through most AOE without issue. They have life steal with Augury of death, lots of healing through Soul Eater and Blighter's Boon. Not just that they have damage reduction through "Rise!" and Infusing Terror. They used to have more through cold shoulder but that was changed to DPS boost instead of damage reduction. BEYOND JUST THAT! we also have Relentless Pursuit which reduces debilitating conditions so the reaper can keep trucking forward. They are EXTREMELY tough! And they have Decimate Defenses allowing them to build further into their bulk without sacrificing much of their DPS unilke most other Classes.

To say they are a glasscannon is extremely wrong. If you want to see a glasscannon, look at weaver, tempest, deadeye, and holosmith especially. THOSE are glasscannons. They're vulnerable most the time and in the case of holo and deadeye they create more vulnerabilities for higher DPS. Reaper does not create vulnerabilities in itself for higher DPS. It builds its DPS into its BULK!

As for "Glasscannon aren't possible in necromancer design", Well that's where you're wrong, Kiddo. If we look to other examples of Necromancer's in other games and MMOs, a glasscannon Necromancer usually sacrifices health for great power. We already have something like this. Holosmith photon forge, so that's not out of the question. Take a look at the Diablo 3 Blood lance build or the blood nova build. Both of those are glasscannon builds that use life sacrifice to hit extremely hard. But it goes beyond just that since in GW1 we had multiple glasscannon builds, and glasscannon support especially. The Orders necromancer would sacrifice quite a bit of its own health to buff ally DPS quite a bit. We also had the Minion master which would cause health lose every time they used a skill to have extremely buff minions. We also have the Melee scythe/dagger's necromancer build which burns through most of its health for massive aoe damage, similar to blood nova and extremely difficult to use. Even further than that we have the most popular healer in GW1 at the moment the Blood is power necromancer which sacrifices 33% of their own health to hyper boost ally's energy regeneration.

Glasscannon isn't just in the necromancer's design. Its core to the very makeup of what a necromancer SHOULD BE!

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The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

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@"Fueki.4753" said:Unless Arenanet introduces a terrible -700 Vitality "trade off", a glass cannon builds aren't really possible with Necromancer's design.

There is no need to have a vitality trade-off to be a glass canon. Just remove the in-built defensive tools from the main mechanism and you got one. I mean, if there is no "2nd health bar" from shroud/shade to shelter the character, you pretty much depend on what defense your utility and weapon skills grant you. Thus you can choose to not take any defensive mean and be an infamous glass canon.

This is where it's funny, ANet's devs could very well remove the "defense" from the next e-spec main mechanism and grant a defensive weapon to this e-spec (like a shield but it could really be anything since "defense" for the necromancer is basically either barrier or an healing source). They could even push it and grant only defensive utility skills to this e-spec. The player would just have to not take those defensive skills or weapon in their build and it would end up being a "glass canon" build. (That's how it work)

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Fueki.4753" said:Unless Arenanet introduces a terrible -700 Vitality "trade off", a glass cannon builds aren't really possible with Necromancer's design.

There is no need to have a vitality trade-off to be a glass canon. Just remove the in-built defensive tools from the main mechanism and you got one. I mean, if there is no "2nd health bar" from shroud/shade to shelter the character, you pretty much depend on what defense your utility and weapon skills grant you. Thus you can choose to not take any defensive mean and be an infamous glass canon.

This is where it's funny, ANet's devs could very well remove the "defense" from the next e-spec main mechanism and grant a defensive weapon to this e-spec (like a shield but it could really be anything since "defense" for the necromancer is basically either barrier or an healing source). They could even push it and grant only defensive utility skills to this e-spec. The player would just have to not take those defensive skills or weapon in their build and it would end up being a "glass canon" build. (That's how it work)

How does removing the health barrier from the spec mechanic affect traits like Unholy Sanctuary? This is the actual problem in my opinion, necromancer traits are designed around the idea of having a class mechanic which grants temporary health, either through the shroud (necro + reaper) or through a barrier (scourge).

They will most likely keep this kind of mechanic to make sure these traits can function with the next elite spec. That is the reason why he said that necromancer most likely won't ever be a full glass cannon.

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@"KrHome.1920" said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:

  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.

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@"Kodama.6453" said:How does removing the health barrier from the spec mechanic affect traits like Unholy Sanctuary? This is the actual problem in my opinion, necromancer traits are designed around the idea of having a class mechanic which grants temporary health, either through the shroud (necro + reaper) or through a barrier (scourge).

They will most likely keep this kind of mechanic to make sure these traits can function with the next elite spec. That is the reason why he said that necromancer most likely won't ever be a full glass cannon.

True, however, Unholy sanctuary have a secondary effect (the health regen while "in shroud") which make the trait viable even if a part of it become seemingly useless. Beside, nothing prevent the spec from having a major trait (whether it's adept, master or grandmaster) giving some barrier when entering shroud (something like: when entering shroud proc lesser [utility skill name]. I mean that's common design at this point).

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:
  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.You are just lacking creativity. For example you could modify the health sacrificing. The 3 GM traits for the spec could be:
  • "when sacrificing health, then gain an equal amount of barrier"
  • "gain evasion for 1s after sacrificing health"
  • "sacrificing health grants superspeed for 3 seconds"

There are tons of possibilities to compensate a sacrifice mechanic.

Signet of Undeath is a "game changing" skill. I am turning team fight losses into victories every day with that single signet. And it is not overpowered because a smart enemy has the chance to focus and kill me when I use it. You sacrifice the health before you finish the cast - this is what balances it.

If ANet would introduce the reaper spec with its intended design (slow horror movie monster with melee shroud) today with all the mobility in the game, I bet you would say "what a garbage, such a spec is not viable". And reaper is yet the strongest necro spec besides the support aspect of scourge.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:
  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.

Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

As to your points necromancer has more than enough sustain to maintain their health into overflow even. We have Parasitic contagion, blood magic as well as the dagger along with skills that just give us large chunks of life like locus signet and blood fiend. Something you might not be aware of because its only revealed through a lot of gameplay with scourge as either a healer or condi in raids or strikes, but Signet of Undeath's cost can be entirely payed for with barrier. So any new health sacrifice skill would follow those same rules. Barrier would be taken first before health is dipped into.

Looking at necromancer's sustain we have much better options than we did in GW1, we have much stronger life stealing and life gain. I was doing some experiments a while back with Blood bank and parasitic contagion, and my health seldom dropped below full. A new spec that sacrifices lots of health would likely utility one or both of these traits to create quite the the menace on the Battlefield. Timing when their burst will occur which would offer a lot of unique play and counter play situations when fighting them.

This also does give us a good idea as to how they would look in raids, being well supported by healing and benefiting from over healing as they could bank that extra heal as the cost for their utility or we could see a scourge + new necromancer partnerships as an alternative to some of the current meta methods. Although I personally would be alright with a new elite spec building barrier on allies which could allow for different party utility.

Health sacrifice would be good for the necromancer. In fact it already has been quite good for them now with just one skill. And there is the offset to the sacrifice you're looking for as well as the high risk I'm looking for. It just needs the power behind it to be worth that extreme risk.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@KrHome.1920 said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:
  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.You are just lacking creativity. For example you could modify the health sacrificing. The 3 GM traits for the spec could be:
  • "when sacrificing health, then gain an equal amount of barrier"
  • "gain evasion for 1s after sacrificing health"
  • "sacrificing health grants superspeed for 3 seconds"

There are tons of possibilities to compensate a sacrifice mechanic.

Signet of Undeath is a "game changing" skill. I am turning team fight losses into victories every day with that single signet. And it is not overpowered because a smart enemy has the chance to focus and kill me when I use it. You sacrifice the health before you finish the cast - this is what balances it.

If ANet would introduce the reaper spec with its intended design (slow horror movie monster with melee shroud) today with all the mobility in the game, I bet you would say "what a garbage, such a spec is not viable". And reaper is yet the strongest necro spec besides the support aspect of scourge.

We don't need to gain anything from sacrificing health as a bonus. I feel the skill should be strong enough on it's own that its worth taking that risk like SoU is now. We also have parasitic contagion and blood bank now to offset the cost. And a partnered healer with blood bank or a scourge would make it so we don't have to dip into our own health because barrier does pay for some of, or all, of the cost of health sacrifice skills.

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@"Lily.1935" said:Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

I'm sorry, but: "What a joke!"55HP (22HP) bip necromancer was (and, outside special gimmicky group comp, probably still is) a corner stone of Urgoz's run (along with edge of extinction rangers). If you've never seen one, I can garantie you that it take sacrificing it's health way better than anything with 500 health point. For the healer who have the back of a low health necromancer it's both a breeze (because you don't need much to keep it alive) and a boon (because it does it's job at a crazy rate).

Too much HP for health sacrifice build just wasn't viable in GW. I don't even know why you'd think otherwise, I mean you're basicaly suggesting that to play sacrifice build that wouldn't use gear/runes to increase it's potency. Along with the increased need for heal due to high health that's just piling handicaps over handicaps. N/Rt builds might be potent for AIs but that's all. It's merely useful to have on a hero when you play alone with a balanced team of heroes. For a player, playing with other players, that can afford to use runes and min-max there is no way you'd play at an average of 500 health point.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

I'm sorry, but: "What a joke!"55HP (22HP) bip necromancer was (and, outside special gimmicky group comp, probably still is) a corner stone of Urgoz's run (along with
edge of extinction
rangers). If you've never seen one, I can garantie you that it take sacrificing it's health way better than anything with 500 health point. For the healer who have the back of a low health necromancer it's both a breeze (because you don't need much to keep it alive) and a boon (because it does it's job at a crazy rate).

Too much HP for health sacrifice build just wasn't viable in GW. I don't even know why you'd think otherwise, I mean you're basicaly suggesting that to play sacrifice build that wouldn't use gear/runes to increase it's potency. Along with the increased need for heal due to high health that's just piling handicaps over handicaps. N/Rt builds might be potent for AIs but that's all. It's merely useful to have on a hero when you play alone with a balanced team of heroes. For a player, playing with other players, that can afford to use runes and min-max there is no way you'd play at an average of 500 health point.

Would you mind linking me those builds? Because what I'm seeing when I search these builds is a 500 average. Not a 55. But Urgos is unfamiliar to me, so I'd be happy to see it.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:
  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.

Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

As to your points necromancer has more than enough sustain to maintain their health into overflow even. We have Parasitic contagion, blood magic as well as the dagger along with skills that just give us large chunks of life like locus signet and blood fiend. Something you might not be aware of because its only revealed through a lot of gameplay with scourge as either a healer or condi in raids or strikes, but Signet of Undeath's cost can be entirely payed for with barrier. So any new health sacrifice skill would follow those same rules. Barrier would be taken first before health is dipped into.

Looking at necromancer's sustain we have much better options than we did in GW1, we have much stronger life stealing and life gain. I was doing some experiments a while back with Blood bank and parasitic contagion, and my health seldom dropped below full. A new spec that sacrifices lots of health would likely utility one or both of these traits to create quite the the menace on the Battlefield. Timing when their burst will occur which would offer a lot of unique play and counter play situations when fighting them.

This also does give us a good idea as to how they would look in raids, being well supported by healing and benefiting from over healing as they could bank that extra heal as the cost for their utility or we could see a scourge + new necromancer partnerships as an alternative to some of the current meta methods. Although I personally would be alright with a new elite spec building barrier on allies which could allow for different party utility.

Health sacrifice would be good for the necromancer. In fact it already has been quite good for them now with just one skill. And there is the offset to the sacrifice you're looking for as well as the high risk I'm looking for. It just needs the power behind it to be worth that extreme risk.

So are you talking about the equivalent of eq nec? which sacrifices its own mana and health and drains it from enemies again and uses skills to recover mana?

In eq nec were mana healers for other classes in cases of needing to use tons of mana to recover for instance while fighting bosses and they could sacrifice their own health recover.

was it like that in gw1?> @Dadnir.5038 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

I'm sorry, but: "What a joke!"55HP (22HP) bip necromancer was (and, outside special gimmicky group comp, probably still is) a corner stone of Urgoz's run (along with
edge of extinction
rangers). If you've never seen one, I can garantie you that it take sacrificing it's health way better than anything with 500 health point. For the healer who have the back of a low health necromancer it's both a breeze (because you don't need much to keep it alive) and a boon (because it does it's job at a crazy rate).

Too much HP for health sacrifice build just wasn't viable in GW. I don't even know why you'd think otherwise, I mean you're basicaly suggesting that to play sacrifice build that wouldn't use gear/runes to increase it's potency. Along with the increased need for heal due to high health that's just piling handicaps over handicaps. N/Rt builds might be potent for AIs but that's all. It's merely useful to have on a hero when you play alone with a balanced team of heroes. For a player, playing with other players, that can afford to use runes and min-max there is no way you'd play at an average of 500 health point.

well if they did it like eq it would work where you sacrifice your health but have tools to get it back quickly and to get rid of aggro fast.

Re edit:Personally i think new elite creates more problems.

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@Axl.8924 said:

@"KrHome.1920" said:The GW1 necro design could be interesting for the new elite spec. A spec that sacrifices health for big impacts. It could work, because such a mechanic would weaken the natural tankiness of necro (shroud and high health pool) to end up as a real glass canon as it is always at low health after big hits. Imagine a spec that uses skills that work like signet of undeath: can kill you when used in the wrong moment, but have extremely game changing effects.

I can imagine it and I doubt it would have any kind of viability in GW2. A GW1's necromancer sacrificing health mainly worked because of 3 things:
  • You sacrificed a %age of health
  • You could reduce your base health to absurdly low level (55hp through gear and up to 22 HP throught -60% death penalty)
  • Regen skills could bring back low HP base character to full almost instantly.

Without taking advantage of the synergy of those 3 points health sacrifice was just barely usable, very far from being "viable". In a game like GW2 with comparatively very large health pool, a core necromancer toolkit totally inadapted and an absolute hate of the community for any skill effect that would be "game changing", it's pretty much impossible to have actual health sacrifice being viable.

Except the health sacrifice builds in GW1 didn't frequently drop their health below the 500 average. 55 didn't take health sacrifice either, at least not any build I've seen. The top build that used it would frequently sacrifice enough to offset the damage with one or 2 heals. The orders necromancer being an old and now unviable one. The current most potent build being the Blood is power Restoration necromancer.

As to your points necromancer has more than enough sustain to maintain their health into overflow even. We have Parasitic contagion, blood magic as well as the dagger along with skills that just give us large chunks of life like locus signet and blood fiend. Something you might not be aware of because its only revealed through a lot of gameplay with scourge as either a healer or condi in raids or strikes, but Signet of Undeath's cost can be entirely payed for with barrier. So any new health sacrifice skill would follow those same rules. Barrier would be taken first before health is dipped into.

Looking at necromancer's sustain we have much better options than we did in GW1, we have much stronger life stealing and life gain. I was doing some experiments a while back with Blood bank and parasitic contagion, and my health seldom dropped below full. A new spec that sacrifices lots of health would likely utility one or both of these traits to create quite the the menace on the Battlefield. Timing when their burst will occur which would offer a lot of unique play and counter play situations when fighting them.

This also does give us a good idea as to how they would look in raids, being well supported by healing and benefiting from over healing as they could bank that extra heal as the cost for their utility or we could see a scourge + new necromancer partnerships as an alternative to some of the current meta methods. Although I personally would be alright with a new elite spec building barrier on allies which could allow for different party utility.

Health sacrifice would be good for the necromancer. In fact it already has been quite good for them now with just one skill. And there is the offset to the sacrifice you're looking for as well as the high risk I'm looking for. It just needs the power behind it to be worth that extreme risk.

So are you talking about the equivalent of eq nec? which sacrifices its own mana and health and drains it from enemies again and uses skills to recover mana?

In eq nec were mana healers for other classes in cases of needing to use tons of mana to recover for instance while fighting bosses and they could sacrifice their own health recover.

was it like that in gw1?

Yes, that was one function the necromancer did for their party. They would recover mana, which is the BiP we were talkinga bout. https://gwpvx.gamepedia.com/Build:N/Rt_Blood_is_Power_Healer_Hero the build is there.

This wasn't the only type of build necromancer's used health sacrifice for since Minion masters and Party support necromancers would frequently use other skills which cost a large bit of life. Health sacrifice wasn't uncommon and used as a means to either make the skill used rather cheap to cast or be quite powerful in its effect. Since GW2 doesn't have a real energy system it would mean that self sacrifice skills would have a strong impact.

Necromancers didn't just have % sacrifice in GW1 either, but life loss skills which I'd personally count as health sacrifice since the end result was the same.

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To make the new Necro a full DPS spec I would expect the following:

A DPS weapon with a wee bit of CC. This could be Hammer, Longbow, or dual Maces.

A set of utility skills that provide some defensive boons like Resistance, Stability, and swiftness. Could be stances, could physical skills, could be something entirely new. Not talking 100% upkeep here, just a small amount of each boon to help a DPS spec do its job, they could be offensive in nature as well in that they could inflict an opposing condition on a target, thus requiring a target in order to gain the boon.

Shroud provides instead of a 50% damage reduction provides 50% damage increase (25% in Competitive play), ranged skills if the new weapon is a ranged weapon otherwise melee range. Shroud skills would obviously have a fear on them cause it is necro but beyond that I have no clue other than big deeps. That right there is how you make Necro a glass cannon btw, just invert the shroud benefits.

Traitline absolutely should not offer any stat gain like Reaper's Onslaught unless it is on a minor trait, otherwise there should be traits for life stealing under certain conditions and improved Life Force generation under certain conditions.

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a) Necro's next elite spec will be OP and much celebrated/derided: Awesome new weapon that works great.b) Core Necro will be crippled to balance the new elitec) Core Necro will be uncrippled but a core mechanic will be amputated but presented as an improvement while new elite spec will be crippled so new weapon works like core off-hand weapons.d) New elite spec will be crippled in another way while being buffed in an unexpected, unnecessary direction but a previous elite will be nerfed.e) Players are confused and wonder what was the point but PvP and WvW balance churn keeps things lively in those game modes.f) Tool tip updatesg) Speculation on next elite spec adds fuel to debate on profession standings

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@Anchoku.8142 said:a) Necro's next elite spec will be OP and much celebrated/derided: Awesome new weapon that works great.b) Core Necro will be crippled to balance the new elitec) Core Necro will be uncrippled but a core mechanic will be amputated but presented as an improvement while new elite spec will be crippled so new weapon works like core off-hand weapons.d) New elite spec will be crippled in another way while being buffed in an unexpected, unnecessary direction but a previous elite will be nerfed.e) Players are confused and wonder what was the point but PvP and WvW balance churn keeps things lively in those game modes.f) Tool tip updatesg) Speculation on next elite spec adds fuel to debate on profession standings

I think it will be similar except add in the new elite will be nerfed hard until its crippled after trying to give it a new role and then say It was always meant to be this way

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