Some arguments and counterarguments regarding Player Housing

First Argument:If MMOs are, in part, a role playing experience (and not just murder-hobo/killing spree/grind fest), then it ought to promote opportunities for role play.Housing provides an opportunity for role playing (it contributes to a sense of belonging in and to the world.).So, housing should be considered as a feature.

Second Argument:If a sense of community among the player base is important for MMOs, then it ought to promote activities that allow for the community to develop.Housing provides activities that allow for the community to develop. It can be used to promote content that is not visited often, or to motivate players to participate in areas of the game that they don't usually participate in.So, housing should be considered as a feature.BTW, the argument that Player Housing doesn't contribute to the MMO sense of community fails here.

Counterargument against the notion that player housing is content that no one but the player will see.Players LOVE to show off their houses — on forums, on YouTube, in blogs.

Some secondary benefits,1) For a studio, housing is free publicity for the game given that feature will be showcased on forums, YouTube, etc., etc.2) "Housing is a bridge between players and developers, both of whom become co-creators and teammates. Players aren’t just consuming what developers make, but creating something to share back in return. It fosters goodwill and excitement between the sides and makes communication something other than players complaining about the most recent patch."

What is the community's take on this?

Note: for those interested in the logic of the arguments they have some obvious implicit premises, but they are valid.

I'm all for player housing, but one giant obstacle is in the way for me: space. If these are meant to be custom-built and placed structures for players, would they be placed in the world itself to reinforce immersion in the world, or would they have to be relegated to Runescape style "dimensions" where people go to each others' houses? The latter would probably be the most reasonable and attainable, but it kind of brings away the immersion (and thus roleplaying aspect) if all we can see beyond our houses is the Mists or something that isn't Tyria.

If we have player housing it'll most probably be implemented the same way guild halls are. I really don't see anet making a zone for people to put their houses in, no matter how cool that might be.

You could buy a parcel of land that is accessible via a private instance, kind of the same way home instances are done. No need for they being placed in the world per se. Another option are apartment like buildings in each of the major cities (or within Guild Halls!). The apartment complex is visible in the world, but your apartment has its own private instance.

You get immersion with good role playing, but this requires opportunities for role playing. Raid, WVW, PVP, and some of the PVE content doesn't really contribute to a sense of immersion because it isn't the best venue for role playing This is partly due to the fact that a player's action is inconsequential to the world at large or lack any real permanence (this is in part because this is an MMO). But, player housing (even the home instances) should provide the place to see the change that you have brought to Tyria. Be it thru trophies you have earned, creatures that you have slayed, people you have saved, regions that you protected, etc., etc. These effects can be individualized in private/permanent instances. This allows space for immersion that sometimes lacks in MMOs: a room of one's own surrounded by your achievements (evidence of your actions in this vast world...that is, other than your bank).

What do you think?

The only game that really got player housing right was Ultima Online. It took a lot of real estate to put in the houses, but you could walk around the game and see them all. It allowed for player run vendor shops, and some very cool guild setups. To me any kind of instanced housing is a waste.

@Tukaram.8256 said:The only game that really got player housing right was Ultima Online. It took a lot of real estate to put in the houses, but you could walk around the game and see them all. It allowed for player run vendor shops, and some very cool guild setups. To me any kind of instanced housing is a waste.

Why? Is the opportunity of immersion not enough to warrant some consideration? What about player housing being in the world rather than an instance that you like so much? And why can't instances provide that? I just want a bit more information about your position since it is a common one.

Probably the best way to do housing would be account based and use the Hall of Monuments instance in the Eye of the North area via the existing portal stone item. Just add an event in the Hall of Monuments where a group wants to restore it, but where the player gets do decide a theme related to the game races (norn, human, etc.) or factions (vigil, sunspear, etc.) to get an overall look. The area around pool could display something based on achievements to get that custom feel or scribe decorations could be enabled. Quests could be added for the ghosts to unlock merchants, storage, or crafting stations. Such as the rune merchant ghost that says, "he has no runes to sell". Complete a quest/collection to give his a new purpose or enable him as a merchant.

@"dominus nok.9263" said:Probably the best way to do housing would be account based and use the Hall of Monuments instance in the Eye of the North area via the existing portal stone item. Just add an event in the Hall of Monuments where a group wants to restore it, but where the player gets do decide a theme related to the game races (norn, human, etc.) or factions (vigil, sunspear, etc.) to get an overall look. The area around pool could display something based on achievements to get that custom feel or scribe decorations could be enabled. Quests could be added for the ghosts to unlock merchants, storage, or crafting stations. Such as the rune merchant ghost that says, "he has no runes to sell". Complete a quest/collection to give his a new purpose or enable him as a merchant.

I like this a lot! All the resources are already there, plus it gives a nod to GW1 (after all this was the place that you got to display your armors and weapons in). Love it!

@"dominus nok.9263" said:Probably the best way to do housing would be account based and use the Hall of Monuments instance in the Eye of the North area via the existing portal stone item. Just add an event in the Hall of Monuments where a group wants to restore it, but where the player gets do decide a theme related to the game races (norn, human, etc.) or factions (vigil, sunspear, etc.) to get an overall look. The area around pool could display something based on achievements to get that custom feel or scribe decorations could be enabled. Quests could be added for the ghosts to unlock merchants, storage, or crafting stations. Such as the rune merchant ghost that says, "he has no runes to sell". Complete a quest/collection to give his a new purpose or enable him as a merchant.

I'd just as well let the Eye of the North stay the Eye of the North, its a some what iconic location for GW and while I'd like to see it restored I don't want to see it changed. And frankly, unless you completely change its lay out, its really not much of a living space and wouldn't likely to appeal to most players that want housing.

Hate Is Fuel.

I agree, it is iconic being a GW1 player myself, but it is a ruin I wish they would do something with. I miss the features it offered. At a minimum Arena-net could offer missions/quests to do a plain restoration of it and add a second portal that could take a player to an instanced house area so that wouldn't have to add to the map.

@Tukaram.8256 said:The only game that really got player housing right was Ultima Online. It took a lot of real estate to put in the houses, but you could walk around the game and see them all. It allowed for player run vendor shops, and some very cool guild setups. To me any kind of instanced housing is a waste.

i agre yet isntance is the most impórtant thing for devls. you cant have 999 plasyers doing things on houses at the same time in the same place. its pron to create bugsd and choke servers, cresting issues. instance are a solution for that.i dont love isntance , (less, if its going to be for a housing feature)but its a solution for idas like this.

The simple fact of the matter is that any player housing would HAVE to be instanced because of how the world maps work. There's really no getting around that. And from my observations it seems most people asking for player housing (I'm completely ambivalent myself) want it for the space for themselves, not to show off to other people..

Hate Is Fuel

We already have the home instance, they just need to actually develop that crap

Even though I love the idea, just think: if they didnt add Guild Halls in real world...try to count the amount of work it would take to make housing system on real world.... an make it work smoothly.

My solution: a "let's use what it already exist" system. a camp/tavern/inn System:

Maybe camp system where players have to leave their characters signed in to have access to area info, quests,participation on events on that area, etc.(maybe paying a small fee to have access to stuff like your bank or renting a crafting station).Even more, you could leave a char at this places in a "sleeping" status = (logging out to switch to another char) so you know you character1 is staying at the DrunkenSylvariHobo Inn in Ascalon while you play with your character2. that would create a cool dynamic possibility.

-Like blocking or "contested" camps/inn: block your possibility to do X, W or Z. So you might have to use another char to clear the block(this one could be alittle way too crazy but who knows hehe)-Discounts if you stay/sign-in: many times there so you are a regular customer or access to special food or materials, (More achievements!)-sleep system: so if sign-in at night-times you get a "rested" buff for karma or xp or loot etc. and in other places they sleep system activates during day-light so you get buffs for signing in at day and so on...Im so full of ideas.

...and so on.

PS: I played Pen & paper rpg games for 15 years. i clearly know how to live things up on roleplay games hehehe :P:+1:What are your ideas!?!

PS2: the real question should be "is any GW2 Mod ever gonna read this XD"

@Tobias.8632 said:We already have the home instance, they just need to actually develop that crap

Yes, this all the way. Just make it like mini guild halls so you could decorate and manage stuff. That's all.Plus we need one mini asura gate in every city (that's not ours) and guild hall that leads to our home. I know that not everyone has home instance stone.

@Kokito.2461 said:Maybe camp system [...]

Heh, something like in Dragon Age: Origins? I'd like that. :)

As for the original question: Well, it certainly would be fun to have player housing, but it's not one of my priorities. There are other things I consider more urgent to enhance the RPG experience, like personalized story content, for instance (based on race, personality choice, and profession).

Yes Housing!!!! gogogoAlso shamelessly plugging my housing Idea here, note that this idea is from before scribing and mountshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Odinius/Player_Housing_Long_Version

@Odinius.9826 said:Yes Housing!!!! gogogoAlso shamelessly plugging my housing Idea here, note that this idea is from before scribing and mountshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Odinius/Player_Housing_Long_Version

This is pretty good! Good job. lol. It could also help in building the community. You could have quests that take place in the instance (e.g., to unlock lands) for which you would need the assistance of other party members (completion of the quest would reward materials for their own housing).

Another suggestion would be a housing system similar to Runes of Magic. When you enter home area it will spawn you inside your house. You begin with a single roomed hut and you can expand your home by collecting materials (in Runes of Magic, you just buy a bigger one). You can decorate the interior in any way you like. The only cons to this method would be the nodes. You can't really place the gathering nodes inside a house.

I love the idea of player housing in MMOs, but it's hard to make it fit in right in EQ style games where the world is mostly managed by game devs, which GW2 is. It works a lot better in sandbox MMOs that are largely player-ran like Ultima Online and SW Galaxies.

I think it would be great if they would at least update the personal instances to make them useful and fun to be in.

I would love to have player housing. In this case, I see it as something like a guild hall, but on a much smaller scale. Decorations you can craft or earn, though the Scribe profession would either have to be reworked, or not involved due to the costs built into it.

(But honestly, if my character can make swords, axes, bows, and rifles; I think they can figure out how to make a table and chairs.)

@Einlanzer.1627 said:I love the idea of player housing in MMOs, but it's hard to make it fit in right in EQ style games where the world is mostly managed by game devs, which GW2 is. It works a lot better in sandbox MMOs that are largely player-ran like Ultima Online and SW Galaxies.

I think it would be great if they would at least update the personal instances to make them useful and fun to be in.

Yea, I would be OK with that. Home instances, if nowhere else, should reflect the difference that my player character has made in the world. A place where you can be surrounded by your achievements (e.g., decorations, or merchants that move in). Plus, some NPC's dialogue needs to be a bit more than a few lines to reflect the change you have brought upon Tyria.

I admit I like the home instances but still could see a nice intermixing of home instance and an open area inside of that where people could create housing. That way both sides could be accommodated. For me though, housing only makes sense if it adds value, aka just as a decoration doesn't add value, it needs to have a function. Will use another example, housing in Skyrim mad sense whereas housing in ESO does not. One allowed me to build/decorate/gather/craft/store/material sync and the other was just a decorate/material sync. As far as open world vs instance housing, concern with open world is without predesignating an area for this you are left where is this place in the existing world and a lot of other details from there. And I do know people that love to craft virtual homes so I get the interest.

@TheGrimm.5624 said:I admit I like the home instances but still could see a nice intermixing of home instance and an open area inside of that where people could create housing. That way both sides could be accommodated. For me though, housing only makes sense if it adds value, aka just as a decoration doesn't add value, it needs to have a function. Will use another example, housing in Skyrim mad sense whereas housing in ESO does not. One allowed me to build/decorate/gather/craft/store/material sync and the other was just a decorate/material sync. As far as open world vs instance housing, concern with open world is without predesignating an area for this you are left where is this place in the existing world and a lot of other details from there. And I do know people that love to craft virtual homes so I get the interest.

I get your point, but function here is a bit ambiguous and depending on what you mean by function it will impact whether housing has value (assuming that value has to be tied to function). It is a personalized area in a world that isn't generally personalized. It provides the opportunity for immersion. You could say, that its function can be to add role playing opportunities, or to tie your character to the world, or to provide a personalized experience. If fun is valuable (I'm guessing this is why we play), and housing can provide fun, then it is valuable.

I just stumbled onto this post so thought I would add my two pennies worth.

To me, player housing is a critical piece of end game content. The possibilities, if implemented correctly, are endless. From crafting to designing to building and so forth. Each xpac and LS update, add more items (funiture, plants, etc etc) with the added race aspect (char, norn) and I will keep coming back to change it up.

I have seen a lot of players say that player housing needs to add "value". In other words, it needs merchants and nodes per say. To me this is subjective as everyone is different. If I could have a place that I could decorate and call my own, that in itself adds value to me. And I would spend countless hours doing it.

Looking at other modern day MMO's that I think have done a great job.Wildstar - Instanced, with tonnes of possibilities.
Final Fantasy online - Districts, with houses and apartments. You can start in a room and work your way up to a full blown house.Black Desert Online - Instanced with an open world aspect built in. The decorating here was really good fun.

What i would like to see in GW2 is a separate story tangent which deals with player housing. The story begins and we are presented with a choice of shack in our home instance. As the story progresses we get the ability to upgrade the said shack to bigger and better houses.The only real hurdle I can see with this is how they handle the instances if you swap from norn to char to human. Do they get rid of the race home instances, and create a race agnostic home instance and then you get to choose inside the instance what type of race you would like to focus on?

I cannot really comment on the role playing aspect, as I am not into that much. I do however love inviting my friends into my houses so that they can explore. And I also love jumping into other peoples houses to see how they have decorated it up.

I suppose from my point of view, I can only hope that player housing in GW2 happens. It would certainly increase my play time of 30 mins per day to xx minutes per day.