Icebrood Saga: Champions - Gameplay and rewards — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Icebrood Saga: Champions - Gameplay and rewards

Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 2, 2021 in Living World

I've been thinking about why I can't bring myself to replay this part of the saga. And it's really quite simple. "Champions" for me combines unappealing gameplay with unappealing rewards. This is a deadly combination. I'll play appealing content with unappealing rewards. I'll spend some time playing unappealing content for appealing rewards, until I get those rewards. I'll fawn over appealing content with appealing rewards and play it for a long time. Who doesn't?

Now, these are subjective terms. My "appealing" can be someone else's "unappealing", we all have different preferences. (I'm using these 2 terms because they're the most neutral ones I can think of. The least loaded terms, so as to not predispose people through use of language.)

Now, I'm wondering how other people see these two aspects of the saga (gameplay and rewards).

Icebrood Saga: Champions - Gameplay and rewards 56 votes

Appealing gameplay - appealing rewards
1%
lare.5129 1 vote
Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards
21%
Crono.4197RizelStar.3724Substance E.4852Dark Red Killian.3946HnRkLnXqZ.1870Lord Trejgon.2809bernstein adelheid.8590Felippe.3879Ragi.7291Brandon Uzumaki.1524NotTooFoolish.7412Sakata Gintoki.7583 12 votes
Unappealing gameplay - Appealing rewards
5%
Lavith.8930Naxos.2503Abelisk.5148 3 votes
Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards
71%
maddoctor.2738Pifil.5193Linken.6345Fleabite.7528Manasa Devi.7958Ashantara.8731Ayrilana.1396Glox.5942Blockhead Magee.3092ugrakarma.9416Bellatrixa.3546Raknar.4735wolfyrik.2017hugo.4705voltaicbore.8012Aeslarin.6830Ragazm.6018Nexxus.5347Calisanna.8732Fueki.4753 40 votes

Comments

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    Some big asterisks though:
    1) The /stretch EMOTE is Hilarious and I love it.

    2) The sustained rewards would be better if the DRM CMs filled a better niche and the base ones (non-CMs) weren't so crappy. At current mastery levels base rewards (public option) are worth nothing at all and even cashing in the seals, DRM CMs don't really have that great of an ROI in terms of time played (even less if you're picky about faction).

    3) DRM CM gameplay would be better if they nuked the blasted timer to allow for sub T4 fractal CM/raid play in PuGs. If they removed the timer or perhaps encouraged less frantic gameplay (something other than the timer for the CM that requires more cooperation over frantic gameplay), it might be better, then as long as you take a healer and pick good strategies, they'll be no where near as frustrating and people would be a little more forgiving in terms of comps and taking randos in their party. A simple example of how to achieve this might be to increase the timer dramatically, but decrease it significantly for each full death. Then on FoR CMs people would just ranged and that would be okay. I'm not a game designer though, just an idea. Also massively long iframes and random invulns are REALLY annoying at current timer levels. During Ryland split phase in snowden drifts it's not uncommon for the berserker elite to get behind Ryland's bubble and you can't kill him, usually because he's fighting an NPC, but during that phase it's more beneficial to fight the elites the NPCs are working on too. The For Boss's 30s invulnerablilities where he's spawning the nuke of all hell while you stand in green is frustrating with such small timers because you think "if I could hit this guy more, it wouldn't be so bad). It honestly feels like some really angry dev designed these to try to make the elitists cry, but all they did was make the community hate the game and make the elitists stick their noses up harder at the rest of us.

    I like playing the CMs to an extent, but they feel worthless if you don't get 3/3 gold. Sure you get full item rewards at 2/3 but everyone is just doing them for achieves right now and missing 3/3 is toxic (also feels like wasted time). People bail mid boss fight if they miss time and it effing sucks.

    ALSO, I do better soloing them than in party. The scaling is the nature of the beast, there's so much synergy between players, they have to scale something crazy with more because of top players who exploit synergies, BUT, if I use diviners and a class that can provide a lot of self-boons, my performance is often better than a normal PuG 5-man party and that sucks, an MMO should encourage more cooperation between players/less elitism, especially in content that is designed to be mainly for achieves/LW content, not high-end content.

    Many raiders hate the DRM CMs, I know the elitists on the forums don't say this, but the pulse of the community is that they're more difficult than even some high-end content, with even less rewards.

    Not an asterisk at all, but I would say, never use this instancing formula again, EVER. People accidently phase out of the instance on rez because of the overly helpful popup when you rez at portal and it's caused way more resets than I'd like (also, random DCs cause this issue too). Also, making a group is way more annoying than say Forging steel: In forging steel, because people can join in the middle, you just start the mission and let people join you as they come. For DRMs, you have to sit around, doing nothing, while you gather people. Also, making everyone join your instance before you start it is annoying too. I literally couldn't come up with a more annoying instance formula, even if I tried.

  • Bellatrixa.3546Bellatrixa.3546 Member ✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    The only reason I'm forcing myself to grind DRMs is for the /stretch emote as there was no other way to get it. I really hoped that they'd stick with the initial implementation of emotes (Reward Track end chest as an alternative to make it accessible to players who main other modes), but sadly that hasn't been the case. In fact, I'm annoyed about how WvW Reward Tracks have been ditched since they messed up the Northern Drizzlewood Reward Track, then removed it so it no longer exists instead of just fixing the rewards. I still have the end chest from that reward track just so I can glare at it on a regular basis and be reminded how much WvW is neglected, but that's a whole other topic which goes way beyond rewards. Just another problem I have with IBS to add to the pile.

    The story aspect has caused me to be the least invested I ever have in 10 years of playing Guild Wars. This is something that personally started for me during PoF and has got worse through LS4 to the point that I'm only doing keeping up with story in the hope that I might care about it again, and so that I'm up to date on completion. The fact that DRMs involve repetition of the dialogue, taking up good chunks of the timer to boot, makes it even more tedious and uninvests me even more. I'd much rather have a skippable cutscene so the NPCs will move when the initial events are completed. Certainly in Snowden Drifts, the NPCs could also move faster considering the brevity of the timer in CM. That particular DRM has multiple problems with NPCs refusing to follow you around (for some reason the Deldrimor Dwarf never moves with me but hangs out near the entrance of the boss encounter but I've seen it follow other people in videos), a mob who launches you up and out of bounds of the map so you get forcibly respawned at the entrance to the boss area, another mob who will wander into Ryland's invulnerable dome so you can't do damage to it... While I don't think I'm super awesome at the game, I know I'm competent enough to clear all the other DRMs solo in CM, and this one is a particular thorn in my side, even after watching videos and reading strategies which somehow just won't work for me, mostly due to bad coding or bugs. So yeah, unrewarding gameplay for sure.

    As for rewards, why can't I exchange Tyrian Defence Seals for Prismaticite Crystals so I can at least make the first set of Dragon Slayer weapons before the expansion comes out? Why do the recipes for the next tiers of them also use Prismaticite as currency to unlock them? Especially when the recipes themselves require 5 Prismatium Ingots per weapon (plus the next tier up which will be released on the 9th and presumably require even more)? This would be bad enough for any of the other Living World currencies but given the currency can't be harvested from nodes and you get a measly 5 per reward track completion, it's excessive gating which only demoralises players from bothering to work on these sets. As for the Volcanic Stormcaller weapons, locking a mastery point behind that collection was ridiculous given the rarity of obtaining those weapons. Is something broken with the RNG for those weapon boxes?

    While I mentioned my earlier dissatisfaction with how WvW is treated and that the rewards for that mode are terrible, I'd rather honestly play WvW because, for all its faults, the gameplay makes it worth it. IBS can't even do that.

    Fake Elitists Always Run [FEAR]
    'Giving portals to thieves was the "...Worst idea since someone said, ‘Yeah, let’s take this suspiciously large wooden horse into Troy. Statues are all the rage this season. - Blackadder".'

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    I'm only grinding the crystals to get the weapons since I'm a completionist and there's always the chance that they could be required if Anet adds a legendary trinket at the end of the season like they did the previous two.

  • Fleabite.7528Fleabite.7528 Member ✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    The DRMs - both grind and rewards - are so uninspiring I've stopped playing GW2 for the first time in ages. I have no high hopes for the third instalment, since it's likely more of the grindy, misery-inducing same.

  • Brandon Uzumaki.1524Brandon Uzumaki.1524 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021
    Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    100g for one exotic weapon, yeah no lol.

  • Mungo Zen.9364Mungo Zen.9364 Member ✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    As Anet has let us know that this series of Episodes/Chapters will be 'lite' releases due to the teams working on the Expansion I have changed my mind about DRM.

    As the DRM releases have been improved upon with each release, I am holding out hope that they will polish the set of DRM and story experiences when it has all been released. As such, I have done the minimum to qualify for the Rush Week events and am waiting until they either give the DRM some polish, or they state that it is 'done' to decide if I care to grind the Achievements.

  • Raizel.1839Raizel.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    For now it's the latter, though I hope we get at least a premium something at the end of Icebrood Saga, like it was for previous LS (either new mount or new legendary trinket).

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 3, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    Gonna repeat what I said in multiples post regarding the icebrood saga and champions chapters:
    The four episodes and their maps were cool, sure, I haven't liked some of the things in them, but however, they gave me ton of Gh Decos for the guild hall, some cool emotes and skins; that are for most of them affordable and easily reachable. The metas for any of the episode was interesting: Fighting against a blizzard, killing a frozen lake snake, conquering camps and progressing toward the HQ of the enemy forces. 4 Huge and nice looking maps.

    What brought champions? Non-rewarding repetitive and boring instances happening in core maps. The instance in itself and the mechanic of being like a heart quest asking for saving citizens, extinguish fires, set up turets... isn't a bad thing in itself, the environement is fine. What is wrong is the mechanics tied to the gameplay: Losing ton of times for an escort, in any of the DRM is dull, boring, non satisfying and unnapealing. Those Dragon response missions are long and reward you with nothing, whereas, for the same time invested in T4 fractals, you get shower of gold. I think that every DRM once completion, should reward you with 1 or 2g and multiples material boxes.

    Obviously, that content is just filler, to fill the wait until EOD, but this isn't a reason to rush things , trying to fill everything in those 4 chapters, butcher the polishing and ruining bigger story plots. We are 8 years after the launch of GW2 and the only "unique" destroyer model is the deldrimor wyvern. About svanir, Ha! No, just 2012 models.
    Well at least there is the frost legions and ice construct to spice up the look. The bosses are HP sponge and take long to kill, their HP should be divided by 2.

    What is a big disapointment, because it is the core of the chapter release is the dragon slayer weapons. They are EXOTICS, and however, THEY COST MORE TO CRAFT THAN ASCENDED WEAPONS. Whereas the ascended spirit planks and deldrimor ingots are around 4g on TP, the prismatium ingot EXOTIC are at 25g !!! It's sad because they are nice looking skins, it is ton of content added but unreachable to "poor" players. It is the a big OOF and mistake, the prices should be fixed accordingly to the rarity of the item, an exotic weapon, material or whatever should always cost less than its ascended counterpart. ANET DO SOMETHING TO DECREASE PRICE OF PRISMATIUM INGOT. 5 primastium ingot per weapon, it's 100g an exotic weapon skin it doesn't make any freaking sense.

    About the achievements now, many are just badly designed, the content is already extremely boring and non rewarding, and several achievs ask you to do multiple times each DRM with all challenges on. There is no will of redoing the DRM once you did them once to complete the story steps. There is the joke hidden achiev of saving poultries, but then you return to the list and you see kitten like mastery points tied to complete expensive collections, buying all recipes for those weapons, those aren't content, it's grind.

    I would have prefered having two more maps in verdant cascades with centaurs and seraphs than those four useless "Fillers".
    It has been a huge disapointment to me at least since the start of those chapters, can only pray that primordius doesn't get one shot in one second in chapter 4.

    If I have only one complain about the starting episode, it is the shiverplus emote. It is shiver emote but with snowflakes, no need of it really, it could have been instead a way more useful and interesting emote like /tinker or /meditate like olmakhan. The essences chests feels rewarding, the strikes mechanics are interesting and give more envy to replay than the DRM. Plus, the strikes reward you more than the DRMS.

    Really over time, the LS1 was bad came back again and again, but I'm sorry but LS1 is still better than those lastly added "chapters". I still regret not experiencing the marionette, the knights fight and battle of LA again, those were content. Before redoing the mistake Anet: I am not asking for visions of the past, I am asking for them as fractals, or strikes like how the steel warband is made.


    So Anet, I ask you, don't let the DRMS and those chapters rotting. Once the four chapters are released, return to their DRMS and contents, make it more rewarding, make the weapons skins accessible, and sellable on TP, make it so it worths it redoing the DRMS: Why not rewarding Prismatium Ingot after completing DRM? really? why not? They are a core material used by the related weapons crafting. Why not rewarding 2g on compeltion like steel warband did? Make the DRM reward also Crystals!!! This way it gives more reasons to play them, in order to unlock the big chest in eye of the north! Increase the speed of the Npcs needing to be escorted!!! Can't they be 2x faster? It feels like it is a chore for them to go to the source of the threat, they are waiting for everyone to be killed or? The only one doing it's job is Jhavi taking its raptor in Gandarran DRM!!!

    Also do something regarding LFG toxicity. DRM are another selective group content where players ask for specific roles and classes, beyond that first toxic filter, if you fail completing the three challenges of the DRM CM (generally the time limit) you face a second line of toxicity where others yell that they got their time wasted! Oh GOD. Really, in this world already in rush of everything, does now, playing a game have to stress you and push you to be the fastest and most efficient of the world?
    This toxicity can be solved by removed the timer CM or by increasing by 7 mins at least the timer, this way no pressure, less metabuild selection required.

    Because let's be honest Anet, the Strikes, the DRM, you never gonna convert the Casual/Chill/Events/Story and Rp pvers into raiders. This is your biggest failed experiment.
    I did an experiment, I asked in chat, Who for raid? me me me me. Who for fractals t4 daily? me me me me me. Who for dungeon? me me me me. Who for strikes? me me. Who for DRM? nobody.
    Each new iteration of Anet of a group content went worse than the previous one. Well apart fractals, fractals are nicely rewarding and balanced, there is a mini story like dungeon but you have tiers of difficulties and scaling rewards regarding them. I only regret that abyssal aren't more accessible, dropable outside of CM fractals.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    Instanced content + rewards I don't really care about.
    Couple that with the fact that most of the new weapon skins are being tied to crafting with new overpriced ingedients.

    *...the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.* - Andrew Gray, February 3, 2020

  • Atomos.7593Atomos.7593 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    I think that the idea of soloable, repeatable content was a nice change, but the quality and implementation of the DRMs poor. It feels like it was an experiment to try to also change up the traditional new map and open world content that typically comes with living world episodes.

    I don't mind this experiment too much because, in my opinion, the Icebrood Saga was trending in a bad direction anyway. However now that we have had this experiment, I would like ArenaNet to go back to what has historically worked quite well again, from the new EoD expansion and onwards, in delivering a new map with the new living world episodes.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    100g for one exotic weapon, yeah no lol.

    This has been a bit of a slap in the face given how some of these are more expensive than an ascended weapon. Can you at least make the progression worthwhile if you're going to flush our money the toilet?

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    The weapon set collections are not rewarding. It's like winning something and getting the instructions to build the prize and a bill for the materials. There were so many gold sink weapon collections throughout the IBS but the finale will truly take the overpriced cake.

    The faction unlock bonus events are dull and the rewards from those are pretty awful too.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    Many raiders hate the DRM CMs, I know the elitists on the forums don't say this, but the pulse of the community is that they're more difficult than even some high-end content, with even less rewards.

    :sweat_smile: Okayyyy... perhaps I should dig back into raiding then since it's so easy. ;)

    Seriously, the DRM CMs are super easy if you have a HFB, an Alac and three good damage dealers. I play them daily as HFB or DPS with PUGs, often with KP groups, and rarely have faced any issues. When you have a good team that knows the mechanics, knows how and when to dodge and avoid AoE, and deals proper damage, the bosses melt before your eyes.

  • Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    The drm CM are actually really easy if you just enter them solo. The enemy scaling is extremely forgiving, to the point it feels you're not even playing on cm at all. In fact, it feels that the mobs don't obtain any extra HP if you compare them to their normal version.
    Just use a power reaper and you will see the enemy mobs die with just a single soul spiral and/or a couple of reaper shroud auto attacks. It's that easy, that know the reaper dps rotation is not even needed.
    Once i discovered that, I actually started to enjoy the drm and i play a couple of them everyday now.

    Regarding the rewards. I think the materials needed for every craftable weapon is absolutely excessive. As it's absolutely impossible to complete them with your own personal effort. Not to mention the absolute insane amount of prismatium ingots needed for the T2 alone.
    It would have been acceptable if the Cm's would give straight up Ingots, corruped and Destroyer lodestones as rewards. Also, it's time that we will be able to obtain the amalgamated draconic lodestones as daily reward trough the completition of something.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 4, 2021

    The DRMs are "easier" solo due to scaling and some random players using terrible builds such as movement signet longbow camping rangers , longbow camping dragonhunters, greatsword mesmers, longbow warriors, or staff camping reapers. So you have the tradeoff of wasting time soloing the pre-event which doesn't scale for players or wasting time on boss. On average if you join a public DRM it takes 8-15 minutes depending on what farce of a build people run and whether you get lucky with people actually finishing the pre-event or just afking at spawn. The CM version should only be attempted solo or with a comped group (using waystation or CC consumables) as the only added reward is tyrian defense seals. I would rather the CM versions cut down on dialogue too, nobody does CM version for dialogue.

    Also if you pay attention to Arenanet's Guildchat they stated that the timer on CM was tacked on sort of as an afterthought which explains why some timers are tighter than expected (low QA if it is not designed in) despite extremely lax timers on the first few. The original intent was added mobs.

    If I had to suggest a rework I would say have tier 3 and/or tier 2 of dragon slayer weapons as ascended weapons to avoid more salvage fodder. Arenanet had that in place for the upgraded Boneskinner weapons which cost similar to make. I remember writing something similar for the Charged Stormcaller weapons but people were claiming to salvage them for memories of otter...

    The reward structure could use work too, Volcanic Stormcaller weapons should not be that rare from DRMs if there's an optional mastery point behind the collection and they're exotics. It ends up that the largest price drop on Volcanic Stormcaller weapons came from the supply boxes (which they are labeled rare in) which is counterintuitive. In all my time doing them I have only had one weapon drop and it was not the box unlike some other people claim, it was a weapon.

    I'll reserve commentary on Prismatium Ingots until after all of Champions is out since eitrite ingots used to be far harder to obtain as well. A current QOL issue is that unless you only use a character specifically for DRMs only you are likely to lose the one-hour long prismaticite crystal bonus especially if you don't alternate between Primordus/Jormag missions, the bonus could reset at daily reset instead. The 480 crystals you need for dragon slayer weapon collection is steep prior to the addition of the bonus but currently to obtain the upgraded tier crimson/azure ones is not realistic without perusing the trading post (1600+ crystals: 2 per recipe , 50 each weapon x 32 weapons).

    If you just do daily DRMs you're going to have roughly one ingot a day , maybe three every two days if you mine a home node. That's over three months of daily DRMs + home node for the crimson and azure weapons under current bonus , closer to five months once you include the basic dragon slayer weaponset.

    Unless you're extremely lucky or lacking tyrian defense seals, it's almost always currently better to do any type of content after the first two daily DRM and just buy the prismaticite. That's fundamentally flawed.

  • Blockhead Magee.3092Blockhead Magee.3092 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    Its all bland filler content. It won't be any better for the next chapter(s) either.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    Many raiders hate the DRM CMs, I know the elitists on the forums don't say this, but the pulse of the community is that they're more difficult than even some high-end content, with even less rewards.

    :sweat_smile: Okayyyy... perhaps I should dig back into raiding then since it's so easy. ;)

    Seriously, the DRM CMs are super easy if you have a HFB, an Alac and three good damage dealers. I play them daily as HFB or DPS with PUGs, often with KP groups, and rarely have faced any issues. When you have a good team that knows the mechanics, knows how and when to dodge and avoid AoE, and deals proper damage, the bosses melt before your eyes.

    When you're talking about this dream team, was it a PuG? i'm asking because I've followed this formula and most of the time we've failed. ESPECIALLY in snowden drifts. Also, what region are you? I've only pugged these, and it's been flipping awful. I almost did it solo yesterday, but most of the time, people die and dead people do 0 damage. In that scenario, other people are a drag. The opposite of what is healthy for an MMO. But I think, they should make them more like something that's not balanced around these hyper metas.

    Also what % of mechanics are you skipping with HFB active defenses + alac? Just curious.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    a nightmare, I've never seen such bad arena content since the start of guild wars 1

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    When you're talking about this dream team, was it a PuG?

    Yes. You can put requirements (KP) in LFG as well as what roles you are looking for (HFB, Alac, DPS). No big deal.

    i'm asking because I've followed this formula and most of the time we've failed.

    When people don't know the mechanics, the team is bound to fail. I've seen it happen, too. That's why I ask for KP (LI, Frac KP, Bone KP) to encrease the chance of getting capable teammates who know how to dodge and when, how to stick together for boons and work their way through mobs faster, and most importantly how to deal high enough damage to make it a smooth experience.

    Also, what region are you?

    Europe.

    Also what % of mechanics are you skipping with HFB active defenses + alac? Just curious.

    It's not about skipping mechanics^, it's about battlefield awareness and a fast kill. For instance, when your damage dealers get pushed around due to a lack of Stability, especially when they get hit in the middle of their most efficient damage rotation, that can drag on the fight longer than necessary. (Edit: Also, I don't really play Revenant, but I think its boon rips are quite efficient against Ryland in the Snowden Drifts mission.)

    ^) The only case I am aware of that allows skipping mechanics is the Brisban boss fight. If you manange to CC it fast and keep it from coming down the ramp, you will skip all the lava font phases and adds that spawn.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    When you're talking about this dream team, was it a PuG?

    Yes. You can put requirements (KP) in LFG as well as what roles you are looking for (HFB, Alac, DPS). No big deal.

    i'm asking because I've followed this formula and most of the time we've failed.

    I refuse to put KP requirements in LFG. No one learns if that happens. I'm fine failing every now and then, but if I feel like I have to ask for KP in order to pass the content, then imo, it's not valuable. Because I'm restricting who I'm playing with as opposed to learning to play with them. You're basically admitting these are raid-level content by saying this, because people do that with raid content. Thanks for proving my point ; )

    When people don't know the mechanics, the team is bound to fail. I've seen it happen, too. That's why I ask for KP (LI, Frac KP, Bone KP) to encrease the chance of getting capable teammates who know how to dodge and when, how to stick together for boons and work their way through mobs faster, and most importantly how to deal high enough damage to make it a smooth experience.

    It's not just dodging though. When i tried solo'ing in melee range in snowden, there's just too many mechanics to dodge everything. Using a different CM as an example, the TP boss's wave hits before it physically hits your character, so it's impossible to judge (I've even tried dodging just before it hits my character and it didn't work), has CC attached AND hits many times. I think up 5, maybe more? The only way to absorb it complete is with a really strong active mitigation or a ton of guards pulsing aegis.

    These are downright ridiculous mechanics that require VERY SPECIFIC and RESTRICTIVE comps, even surpassing raids in terms of mechanic strength. I think the only PuGs that I've succeeded in TP with were ones with at least 3 guaradians, probably due to all the passive aegis. That shouldn't be a thing. At all. When there's 9 different professions to choose from and your party size is 5, and more than half of it seems to have to be a certain class in order to succeeed, that's downright broken.

    Also, what region are you?

    Europe.

    Figures. Pugs in Europe seems stronger than NA. this isn't the first time I've had conversations with people on these forums from EU and they're talking about a completely different community

    Also what % of mechanics are you skipping with HFB active defenses + alac? Just curious.

    It's not about skipping mechanics^, it's about battlefield awareness and a fast kill. For instance, when your damage dealers get pushed around due to a lack of Stability, especially when they get hit in the middle of their most efficient damage rotation, that can drag on the fight longer than necessary. (Edit: Also, I don't really play Revenant, but I think its boon rips are quite efficient against Ryland in the Snowden Drifts mission.)

    What you described was skipping mechanics. Aegis and stab are hard counters to mechanics, they're essentially a skip. Which really if you think about it, is dumb. because not all classes can bring stab, so either the mechanic is a class/comp check, or is just there to annoy you. A real mechanic, imo require active player effort. LIke the egg on the Tp boss. Though even that's a bit off -> it's skill kind of a DPS check in a game with tons of different stat combos.

    ^) The only case I am aware of that allows skipping mechanics is the Brisban boss fight. If you manange to CC it fast and keep it from coming down the ramp, you will skip all the lava font phases and adds that spawn.

    Interesting, good to know.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    When you're talking about this dream team, was it a PuG?

    Yes. You can put requirements (KP) in LFG as well as what roles you are looking for (HFB, Alac, DPS). No big deal.

    i'm asking because I've followed this formula and most of the time we've failed.

    I refuse to put KP requirements in LFG. No one learns if that happens. I'm fine failing every now and then, but if I feel like I have to ask for KP in order to pass the content, then imo, it's not valuable. Because I'm restricting who I'm playing with as opposed to learning to play with them. You're basically admitting these are raid-level content by saying this, because people do that with raid content. Thanks for proving my point ; )

    When people don't know the mechanics, the team is bound to fail. I've seen it happen, too. That's why I ask for KP (LI, Frac KP, Bone KP) to encrease the chance of getting capable teammates who know how to dodge and when, how to stick together for boons and work their way through mobs faster, and most importantly how to deal high enough damage to make it a smooth experience.

    It's not just dodging though. When i tried solo'ing in melee range in snowden, there's just too many mechanics to dodge everything. Using a different CM as an example, the TP boss's wave hits before it physically hits your character, so it's impossible to judge (I've even tried dodging just before it hits my character and it didn't work), has CC attached AND hits many times. I think up 5, maybe more? The only way to absorb it complete is with a really strong active mitigation or a ton of guards pulsing aegis.

    These are downright ridiculous mechanics that require VERY SPECIFIC and RESTRICTIVE comps, even surpassing raids in terms of mechanic strength. I think the only PuGs that I've succeeded in TP with were ones with at least 3 guaradians, probably due to all the passive aegis. That shouldn't be a thing. At all. When there's 9 different professions to choose from and your party size is 5, and more than half of it seems to have to be a certain class in order to succeeed, that's downright broken.

    Also, what region are you?

    Europe.

    Figures. Pugs in Europe seems stronger than NA. this isn't the first time I've had conversations with people on these forums from EU and they're talking about a completely different community

    Also what % of mechanics are you skipping with HFB active defenses + alac? Just curious.

    It's not about skipping mechanics^, it's about battlefield awareness and a fast kill. For instance, when your damage dealers get pushed around due to a lack of Stability, especially when they get hit in the middle of their most efficient damage rotation, that can drag on the fight longer than necessary. (Edit: Also, I don't really play Revenant, but I think its boon rips are quite efficient against Ryland in the Snowden Drifts mission.)

    What you described was skipping mechanics. Aegis and stab are hard counters to mechanics, they're essentially a skip. Which really if you think about it, is dumb. because not all classes can bring stab, so either the mechanic is a class/comp check, or is just there to annoy you. A real mechanic, imo require active player effort. LIke the egg on the Tp boss. Though even that's a bit off -> it's skill kind of a DPS check in a game with tons of different stat combos.

    ^) The only case I am aware of that allows skipping mechanics is the Brisban boss fight. If you manange to CC it fast and keep it from coming down the ramp, you will skip all the lava font phases and adds that spawn.

    Interesting, good to know.

    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I refuse to put KP requirements in LFG. No one learns if that happens.

    While that is true, there are days were I just don't have the nerve to go through "trial and error". ;)

    It's not just dodging though. When i tried solo'ing in melee range in snowden, there's just too many mechanics to dodge everything.

    There are safe spots, though. For instance, the spot where Ryland stands is safe, you can stack there while he is in his casting animation.

    the TP boss's wave hits before it physically hits your character, so it's impossible to judge

    Which is why stability is so valuable in those cases.

    I've even tried dodging just before it hits my character and it didn't work

    Yes, there are situation where jumping or dodging don't do the trick, like when Ryland's cone-shaped pushes hit you.

    These are downright ridiculous mechanics that require VERY SPECIFIC and RESTRICTIVE comps, even surpassing raids in terms of mechanic strength.

    Perhaps I really should give raids a try again if what you say is true. I remember them being extremely stressful while DRMs are relaxing to me in comparison. But truth be told, I have not raided in years, so perhaps I've improved in the meantime?

    I think the only PuGs that I've succeeded in TP with were ones with at least 3 guaradians

    Oof.

    What you described was skipping mechanics. Aegis and stab are hard counters to mechanics, they're essentially a skip. [...]

    Ah, okay. We have a different understanding of "skipping mechanics" then. =)

    ^) The only case I am aware of that allows skipping mechanics is the Brisban boss fight. If you manange to CC it fast and keep it from coming down the ramp, you will skip all the lava font phases and adds that spawn.

    Interesting, good to know.

    I just discovered this one yesterday and tried it again today: it works. :lol: It makes it easier, but takes about just as long as doing the actual mechanics, because the boss constantly runs in and out of the restricted area.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 5, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Linken.6345 said:
    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

    This assumes a healer, I was moving when i was messing with it solo. he has a massive frontal cleave attack as an auto.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    ^) The only case I am aware of that allows skipping mechanics is the Brisban boss fight. If you manange to CC it fast and keep it from coming down the ramp, you will skip all the lava font phases and adds that spawn.

    Interesting, good to know.

    I just discovered this one yesterday and tried it again today: it works. :lol: It makes it easier, but takes about just as long as doing the actual mechanics, because the boss constantly runs in and out of the restricted area.

    It's quicker to abuse this if everyone has a ranged weapon.

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

    This assumes a healer, I was moving when i was messing with it solo. he has a massive frontal cleave attack as an auto.

    No it dont assume any healer, you can move around out of the cone attack in melee range.

  • Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    I'm certainly enjoying DRMs more than Strikes. I don't see myself playing them in 4 months, but I still repeated some of them many times more than Strikes.

    I really don't need more weapons, all I care are materials. New skins might be something nice for other players though.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @NotTooFoolish.7412 said:
    I'm certainly enjoying DRMs more than Strikes. I don't see myself playing them in 4 months, but I still repeated some of them many times more than Strikes.

    I really don't need more weapons, all I care are materials. New skins might be something nice for other players though.

    Why do you play Drms then?
    All the materials you get in them is used for said weapons you say you dont need.
    Edit
    A better use of your time if you care about materials would be drizzlewood

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

    This assumes a healer, I was moving when i was messing with it solo. he has a massive frontal cleave attack as an auto.

    No it dont assume any healer, you can move around out of the cone attack in melee range.

    Does that look like I was talking about the cone? I wasn't. His autos hit like a truck and you can't just sidestep them.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2021
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

    This assumes a healer, I was moving when i was messing with it solo. he has a massive frontal cleave attack as an auto.

    No it dont assume any healer, you can move around out of the cone attack in melee range.

    Does that look like I was talking about the cone? I wasn't. His autos hit like a truck and you can't just sidestep them.

    Use the weapon sigil or play necro chrono and alac that can destroy boons.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    There is only 2 attacks you have to dodge from ryland.
    the big circle aoe you have to dodge when it fill about 90% and his frontal cone if you cant side step out of it
    all others are easily done by just moving.

    This assumes a healer, I was moving when i was messing with it solo. he has a massive frontal cleave attack as an auto.

    No it dont assume any healer, you can move around out of the cone attack in melee range.

    Does that look like I was talking about the cone? I wasn't. His autos hit like a truck and you can't just sidestep them.

    Boon removal.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2021
    Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    I have a couple of issues with the rewards. The DRMs mostly feel like small dungeon paths. But when I look into my inventory at the end, I often feel I could have done a Legendary Bounty instead. I would have had more fun, better loot in a fraction of the time.

    The NPCs in the DRMs loot EXP baseline, something that I should not be grateful for. But looking back at Kourna I actually am grateful for this fact. Is it much? When I want to level my Dragon Slayer Masteries, I join a Drizzlewood Coasts map. Leveling with DRMs would take significantly longer.

    The loot table of the NPCs are rather disappointing, they cannot drop gear :S. (example: Destroyer Soldier)

    I was hoping for the two Masteries, which enhance the rewards. They do not change anything with the regular NPCs, just add a little bonus loot (Seal + Prismaticite Crystal) in the final chest. The more challenge-motes are active, the more bonus-loot.

    If you are not interested in those super-expensive weapon collections, you are mostly fighting for the seals. If there is nothing at the seal-vendor you are interested in, you are free to purchase Supply Boxes or Beads of Liquid Karma (8 seals, 500 karma each). I only run the public versions, as none of my PVE guilds are interested in this content at the moment. So I get 6-8 Seals per run. The dailies reward +5 seals each. My usual routine is one of the daily DRMs, which results in two daily chests (slayer + mission). So I end up between 16 and 18 seals.

    If I play any other content, I usually get more and more useful rewards.

  • NotTooFoolish.7412NotTooFoolish.7412 Member ✭✭
    edited March 7, 2021
    Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Why do you play Drms then?
    All the materials you get in them is used for said weapons you say you dont need.
    Edit
    A better use of your time if you care about materials would be drizzlewood

    It's new, I'm joining the community for the events. I don't play much these days. Otherwise I would be raiding instead of using all the other content.
    I do agree Drizzlewood is the right place for people in need of materials. It is a bit time consuming I you want to complete the whole chain.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Appealing gameplay - appealing rewards

    any news may for update Icebrood Saga Material bag and Prismaticite Crystal and other stuff recalculate?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Manasa Devi.7958Manasa Devi.7958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Unappealing gameplay - Unappealing rewards

    @lare.5129 said:
    any news may for update Icebrood Saga Material bag and Prismaticite Crystal and other stuff recalculate?

    Things are getting better. Maybe someone can make a new poll when the Saga is over. Now is too soon, I think, with new things still coming up.

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Appealing gameplay - unappealing rewards

    DRM gameplay is pretty okay and the length is completely fine given the majority of the player base has no problem meta farming for 3 hours at a stretch

    Where they blew it tremendously is the rewards

    I have no idea how they got strikes so correct and then kitten the bed so spectacularly with DRM's

    The fact that people still do fractals after all these years means they will do party instanced content if you give them a reason to

    That reason just needs to not be karma weapons from the game's release or hilariously expensive crafting nesting doll weapons