Either remove rewards from PvP or just reward winners

It's really stupid design hands down....this kind of philosophy only attracts individuals who couldn't care less about competition, PvP and just waste other people time . Rewarding people for losing makes absolutely no sense, getting better should be your reward and if you can't stand that...then don't go PvP it's that simple

You should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players first of all...not because of the reward itself, how can you expect the gamemode to work when you invite that kind of ideology?

Anet must(!) remove all sources of gold from pvp. Its just boring to play the game with bots

A great idea...if your goal is to kill off SPvP even faster.

@Nilkemia.8507 said:A great idea...if your goal is to kill off SPvP even faster.

What Is Dead May Never Die

rewards helped revive pvp from the brink of death back when we still had the old lobby. i think rewarding only winners is ok tho.

@Nilkemia.8507 said:A great idea...if your goal is to kill off SPvP even faster.

You're supposed to go PvP for prestige not for gold like you'd supposed to go WvW because you enjoy large format fights and finally PvE because you enjoy grinding or whatever. It's ok more than ok to give some form of PvP currency which is highly lucrative like memory of battles are in WvW but...right now the gold rewards in PvP are just too much for simply joining ....you are not supposed to get any pips if you lose in case they'd leave the current system.

In an ideal world gold rewards should go to AT, making it a larger instance for starter but at the same time keeping rewards away from bots and farmers : gold rewards should increase as an incentive but yeah...gold rewards should be removed from Ranked.

Ranked should not even have a leaderboard : It's a random game mode

There is 3times better reward for winning than loosing.

Oh and bots would still work if u remove loosing reward, cuz bots also win around 50% of matches.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

You're supposed to go PvP for prestige not for gold like you'd supposed to go WvW because you enjoy large format fights and finally PvE because you enjoy grinding or whatever. It's ok more than ok to give some form of PvP currency which is highly lucrative like memory of battles are in WvW but...right now the gold rewards in PvP are just too much for simply joining ....you are not supposed to get any pips if you lose in case they'd leave the current system.

In an ideal world gold rewards should go to AT, making it a larger instance for starter but at the same time keeping rewards away from bots and farmers : gold rewards should increase as an incentive but yeah...gold rewards should be removed from Ranked.

Ranked should not even have a leaderboard : It's a random game mode

Prestige? How is that even measured? PvP ranking is at best an indicator of how many game one has played, and isn't good for anything but finishers, which I hardly care about. And if you're about to say PvP rating during the ranked seasons, well, there's a vid for you. Prestige is meaningless as far as I'm concerned.

The system is already designed in a way that winners get more than those who lose, so there's already an incentive to win. And, back when I did play the mode, the gold was just a bonus, for me, the main reward was whatever the reward tracks had, or the ascended shards of glory from pip tracks to get ascended weapons easier. And even that wasn't worth the frustration and toxicity of the mode in general. Gating gold behind tournaments would do little, if anything to make them more appealing.

Probably the only thing I agree with is that leaderboards don't need to exist, since I don't see what purpose they serve or who they serve at all. But overall, these changes would be bad. PvP would lose even more population, and while the bots might get hampered or go away in the best case scenario, that just leaves the wintraders, who'll now wintrade even harder when they find there's no rewards for losing.

And for those that lose, regardless of whether it's their fault or not, whether they were sabotaged by said wintraders or just put up against people they couldn't beat, well, the frustration, toxicity, and blame games are going to get worse, driving more away and digging the grave even deeper.

I almost want to see this happen now just to see how ridiculous it would get.

@Filip.7463 said:There is 3times better reward for winning than loosing.

Oh and bots would still work if u remove loosing reward, cuz bots also win around 50% of matches.

Thanks for clarifying that.

@Arheundel.6451 said:getting better should be your reward and if you can't stand that...then don't go PvPYou should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players

It's very dangerous to frame your ideology of PVP as the only one that matters.Not only do you shun the playerbase who just want to be entertained for offering their time to the gamemode for no reason, you also make it much more effective to just abandon a match the moment it is not going in your favor. You both reduce and toxify the player group willing to put up with your direction.

This is a bad idea. rewards can be adjusted, but participants should get something for even finishing the match. There is no way to guarantee you can even drop into the pvp lobby and point at 10 people who are there just for the Smell of The Game™

@Arheundel.6451 this solves nothingbots still get ~50% win-rate so it doest solve bot issue. and people that dont care about winning now, wont suddenly start caring.And if they lose they drop ranking, have easier games and win later anyways. Pointless change.

Prestige is irrelevant for most people. People are driven by progress (and no: getting good is not what progress means). That's scientifically proven. Your prestige based game mode would be dead in the blink of an eye.

Besides that: Bots would still win games because the game would still need some form of matchmaking for different skill levels (or call it A.I. levels in terms of bots).

I disagree. Losing streaks are real, no matter your skill level. These are already emotionally degrading, but if there is no participation reward at all this will only feel worse.And having no reward at all for losing matches will only increase the level of toxicity that there is already in ranked.The current system is fine. The rewards for winning are already significantly better and the great majority of achievements already do not progress at all on lost matches.

the biggest offenders that run bot programs probably have their bots spread out across the entire game mode and most likely other games as well. it all translates into $/hr, so anything that hurts their bottom line is a good thing and might cause them to run their bots somewhere else.

Rewards are keeping this mode semi-alive.Removing them would be nothing but detrimental.

If people suddenly no longer got rewards for playing it, many of them would leave.

That would make the actual problems in PvP worse:The difference between people in a match would grow, causing even worse imbalance and in matches.Queues times would increase.

And then even more people leave, making the problems even worse.

Cant a simple anti bot type of action be added to pvp q'ing to make it so a human has to physically be there to start a match.

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the biggest offenders that run bot programs probably have their bots spread out across the entire game mode and most likely other games as well. it all translates into $/hr, so anything that hurts their bottom line is a good thing and might cause them to run their bots somewhere else.

Bots can be kept out with a captcha. There is no need to change the reward systems for this.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Nilkemia.8507 said:A great idea...if your goal is to kill off SPvP even faster.

Yeah good thinking and all, I agree but you don't make numers with this kind of thinking, and that's what a company as Anet is interested in, so to make more numbers you are forced to make rewards to incentivize people to play your content.

Restricting rewards to winning teams wont make match quality improve. People will throw if they are behind 3 minutes into a game, bots wont disappear but will become even more problematic, toxicity will increase causing casual players to just quit for good. If you want matches to be competitive you need the game to be designed and balanced for that specific purpose, which gw2 is not.

The ideology being discussed in this thread concerning rewards in wealth and incentive is completely off the mark and entirely wrong.

The truth is that truly competitive players don't care how much or how little gold they make. What they are really after is clout. Even if the MAT had absolutely no rewards, the truly competitive, the best players, would still go to compete over clout.

In other words, adjusting rewards has absolutely nothing to do with anything outside of the idea that:

1. Increasing wealth rewards brings in non competitive AP/Skin/Gold hunters who will leave and never come back once they've obtained a goal.
2. Decreasing wealth rewards will make those players disappear.
3. Remove all rewards entirely, and you'd see who the real pvp community was by who stayed to continue playing for the game and for clout.

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's really stupid design hands down....this kind of philosophy only attracts individuals who couldn't care less about competition, PvP and just waste other people time . Rewarding people for losing makes absolutely no sense, getting better should be your reward and if you can't stand that...then don't go PvP it's that simple

You should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players first of all...not because of the reward itself, how can you expect the gamemode to work when you invite that kind of ideology?

Could have been a good idea 3 years ago. Enacting this now would be like pulling the plug on life support.

GW1 had an actual prestige system through titles which could be grinded, but good players could grind them exponentially faster. (Consecutive wins doubled the points each round for 8v8, and after every 5 round in 4v4). You cannot remove rewards before something like that is in place.

@TheQuickFox.3826 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the biggest offenders that run bot programs probably have their bots spread out across the entire game mode and most likely other games as well. it all translates into $/hr, so anything that hurts their bottom line is a good thing and might cause them to run their bots somewhere else.

it would help.

@Bazsi.2734 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:It's really stupid design hands down....this kind of philosophy only attracts individuals who couldn't care less about competition, PvP and just waste other people time . Rewarding people for losing makes absolutely no sense, getting better should be your reward and if you can't stand that...then don't go PvP it's that simple

You should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players first of all...not because of the reward itself, how can you expect the gamemode to work when you invite that kind of ideology?

Just remove all forms of gold from PvP and add another type of esthetical reward that would count as prestige and at the same time you solve the bots problem or anybody who is not really invested in the game mode

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Arheundel.6451 this solves nothingbots still get ~50% win-rate so it doest solve bot issue. and people that dont care about winning now, wont suddenly start caring.And if they lose they drop ranking, have easier games and win later anyways. Pointless change.

Bots exist wherever there is gold to be made, remove the gold and you remove the bots and you are left only with those interested in the gamemode. Make the fashion rewards enticing enough and you attract an interested crowd; God knows back in GW1 how many PvErs and similar tried their best to improve, get better and finally start winning and farm fame...all to get that animal emote, that simple emote reward was coveted by the hardcore and casuals, both ready to put in the work.

That was the main reason behind the success of GW1 PvP, you played alongside individuals who were there for the prestige ...and not for the legendary amulet, the gold etc

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Arheundel.6451 this solves nothingbots still get ~50% win-rate so it doest solve bot issue. and people that dont care about winning now, wont suddenly start caring.And if they lose they drop ranking, have easier games and win later anyways. Pointless change.

If pvp gave no gold I would not play it. And Im not a bot. Also 3/3 of my friends would not play pvp either so here is that.Not because we play pvp specifically for gold, we enjoy pvp. But if I enjoy fractals, dungeons, raids AND pvp. I will do what I enjoy AND find profitable.Removing rewards from pvp wont ever fix bot issues, if there are skins to be gained people will bot to get those skins, as long as they cant get banned it doesnt matter.And honestly im SHOCKED they dont get banned. Like, they HAVE to buy expansions to trade, if you ban bots, they make new acc, buy expansions and thus make money for anet.

@"Arheundel.6451" said:It's really stupid design hands down....this kind of philosophy only attracts individuals who couldn't care less about competition, PvP and just waste other people time . Rewarding people for losing makes absolutely no sense, getting better should be your reward and if you can't stand that...then don't go PvP it's that simple

You should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players first of all...not because of the reward itself, how can you expect the gamemode to work when you invite that kind of ideology?

There used to be barely any rewards in pvp - it wasn't so great and, imo, one of the main reasons why this mode kind of died (p2w balance mentality is other). Botting will be always there, if anything support and punishment should be improved.

I would like to point out that no matter how good you are, you are going to lose matches. It gets even worse in higher rating where you can face full team of top players while having golds on your team - you can't beat that. Wintrading is also an issue. You want players to be punished because they got wintrader on their team or AFker? You really think it is ok?

"You should go PvP because you enjoy fighting other players first of all" - i will be blatant here and will pretend i talk for many (veteran) players: the game that we really enjoyed so much that we gladly would walk into pvp, enjoy combat and spends days and nights in that mode despite gaining no rewards (outside of few dyes and skins lol) is gone. Nowadays you don't fight other players, you fight AoE spam on the nodes.This may not apply to everyone but the only thing that keeps me personally in pvp is a bit of nostalgia of old times, easy daily 2g and a bit of joy of getting to plat while murdering all those FOTM specs no matter how much company trashes my build/class.

What will keep newer players in pvp? It is huge time sink just to get murdered over and over and over and over by veteran players. I don't think it will help pvp in any way beside promoting botting even more.

Also, i don't want to be THAT kind of person but if you are tired of bots what you personally can do, today, without waiting for some miracle from Anet is to get good build, get better on your class, get better at rotation, learn other classes and win enough matches to get out of bot rating. I don't see bots in plat. Just some toxic players xD