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The Insane Cost of the Icebrood Saga Weapon Collections (Update - Still Insane)

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  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

  • @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    But the price of ingots decreases with time - it is now lower than it was when they sold theirs. And after 23rd, when the recipes will change, it will go down again. At new recipe they will certainly not be able to sell the ingots at the same price they sold them originally. So, it's not so sure that even if they knew the recipe will change, they would have gained by waiting till that time before crafting.

    We are speaking of an Account Bound mat(Prismatium Crystal), that you have to run DRMs to obtain, also known as actually playing the content and trusting Arenanet.
    If we had known and left them in Crystal form instead of converting them to Ingots prior to this announcement, we could craft TWICE the amount of Ingots(with twice the amount of the other Non-Account-Bound mats).

    To clarify: We want the ability to get 2 Ingots out of 10 Crystals if we converted said Crystals into Ingots prior to this announcement/change
    Again, this is an Account Bound mat that takes time to obtain, at 8-10mins per DRM for 2(at the moment). If you spent 40 hours farming DRMs over weeks for those just to find out half of this is just got wasted, you would rather not have played the content at all and have done something else.

    What we do with the Ingots(sell, destroy, craft, gift) is irrelevant. The cost of an Ingot on TP is irrelevant. We are not speaking of gold price that fluctuates based on the whims of TP barons, said Crystals are Account Bound mats with no direct value by themselves other than time invested getting them.

    The fact that ArenaNet betrays their most faithful fans in such a way is disgusting.

    Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

    Yes, they have the ability to check if you crafted something. Crafting mistakes happen all the time and customer support has helped with many of those before.

    Doesn't the CS Team ask you to prove your claim by destroying the 'mistake'? Which shows them what you crafted/acquired?
    I would not be too sure they can tell what you have crafted alone. Maybe they can, and maybe they can not.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    The fact that ArenaNet betrays their most faithful fans in such a way is disgusting.

    So, you say they should not have changed anything and left those collections in their previous disgusting state? And that this would have been better, and not a "betrayal of their fans"?

    Then we're back to the original question of whether Anet even knows how many ingots someone crafted.

    Yes, they have the ability to check if you crafted something. Crafting mistakes happen all the time and customer support has helped with many of those before.

    Those crafting mistakes generallly are all about account-bound crafts, and they "validate" those by checking if you have the item in inventory (and ask you to destroy it, before you get the refund). Also, the refund they give is not the mats used for the item, but the correct version of it. Here they can't do that. Ingots are not a bound item, so they don't really know if it was you that crafted them or someone else. And they definitely would not know that about someone that crafted ans sold theirs.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • WindBlade.8749WindBlade.8749 Member ✭✭✭

    There was always a problem with fixing contents that are too expensive or too hard to get compared to what is worth or what was intended but misscalculated, since some player will feet cheated by it, but should a game do not fix itself because some player already craft thing thing ? no, it's should fix it.
    How they can compensate is a case by case thing.

  • Zok.4956Zok.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I have ignored every single collection since Boreal collection.
    It's just not fun to grind for skins, period.

    If you do not want the skins, then don't grind for them and do other things in the game that you like.

    I think the only way that Anet can make grind worth while for the game is to simply introduce gear progression.
    Something past Ascended, and Legendaries will be upgraded to the next tier by default.

    No, this is not a good idea.

    A grind that can be ignored is much better than a grind that is required to experience content/maps/etc.

    Without gear progression, people have no real need to grind anything

    Exactly. This is a good thing in GW2.

    https://www.gw2gh.com/ - A GW2-Guild-Hall.
    Register and check your guild leaderboard to see who is the best in your guild and who finished achievements first.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Now we just need NPC allies in the DRMS to stay alive and not die after a few hits. Constantly reviving NPC allies the entire DRM isn't fun. Please pass that along lol <3

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    At this point, players are being discouraged from playing any content when it comes out and wait half a year to bother. Which will only generate statistics that no one wants to play the content. Then Anet will think "this is bad content, so we shouldn't make content like this again." But what if it was actually good except for the grind balance?

    I don't have faith that Anet can distinct between these issues. This perspective is backed up by history.

    I'm at the brink to not play content at launch, encourage others to avoid all new content outside of a single play through, and now stop encouraging people to try Guild Wars 2. If Anet can't fix mistakes like these right, they can't be trusted to not mess the game up in the future.

    History is repeating itself for a third time since PoF. Another incident like this without at least an expansion between them won't be tolerated.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Turtle Dragon.9241Turtle Dragon.9241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    So, you say they should not have changed anything and left those collections in their previous disgusting state? And that this would have been better, and not a "betrayal of their fans"?

    Dont get me wrong, I am happy that they are making the collections easier too.
    What I am unhappy about is that I am going to lose 600 Crystals because I crafted Ingots before they nerf the recipe. Now this means that I will have to grind this content TWICE.

    Perhaps explaining this with an example is better:
    Say you want to craft your Legendary, and you converted all your T5 Blood into T6 Blood so you have enough of each to craft 1 Gift of Blood.
    Tomorrow, right before you craft it, they nerf the recipe to now require twice the T5 Blood and half the T6 Blood.
    Now you cannot get your Legendary anymore, you now have extra T6 Blood whose price has been halved, and you have to go buy more T5 Blood whose price doubled.
    Would you be happy about this?
    This is my situation basically. If I had not converted, I would be done with the T3 Dragonslayer weapons too, just like you would be done with your Gift of Blood.
    Perhaps this will help people understand why changing existing recipes is an awful idea.

    There are other things they can change other than nerfing the Ingot recipe from 10 to 5.
    They plan to increase daily from 6 Crystals to 10. Why not make that 20? I also said that they could change the PvP/WvW reward track that awards a measly 5 Crystals at the end of the track. They could change that to a good 50 and make the tracks much more attractive.
    Buff things, dont nerf things. A buff to FUTURE Crystals to be earned, not a nerf to existing Crystals already earned.

    Betraying their fans comes from the grind in the first place:
    Imagine if this wasnt a mistake and was actually premeditated, as in "they planned for us to grind then planned to nerf the grind later just to make us pass time"
    Basically, from now on people will stop trusting what Arenanet releases and start saying "let's just not play this content until Arenanet nerfs it".
    What they have done also sets a very dangerous precedence for GW2. This is not WoW. We should not have to grind like this.
    I might as well not have played and waited for it to be nerfed. Why play something if you know Arenanet will just nerf it in the future?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above. Ultimately any Prismaticite Crystals returned would likely go back to whoever has account-bound them (see Restored Boreal weapons which were one-off replacements), which means only people that account-bound the t1/t2 weapons.

    They could have just flooded the reward rate of increased mastery levels. There still would be buyer's remorse though but anyone that has played the game long enough would know that the mastery levels would likely increase crystal drops similar to eitrite ingots. Changing the unobtainable T3 recipes (aka data-mined so people shouldn't preemptively complain about those anyway) and upping the rewarded crystals might not have been enough in their eyes , that's the only case I would see for adjusting the prismatium ingot recipe retroactively on top of that.

    I think at this point the best hope for people that did the entire t2 collection is to get the difference in Prismaticite Crystal after the change (I don't understand the logic of people contacting support right now). I don't think that someone that did a few weapons is going to achieve the same leniency by support.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:
    @Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above.

    I did in a previous comment.

    They should not change the existing recipe, at all.
    This can all be avoided, by not changing the recipe for Ingots from 5 to 10 on Tuesday.

    We end up in a situation where people who have actually done the collections and converted Crystals to Ingots have to grind all over again(ONCE more), while people who have just kept Crystals and done daily only(not bothered with the collection) are DONE.
    This whole discrepancy comes from the fact that they are nerfing the recipe.

    This is the wrong way of doing things.
    Arenanet is
    1. Rewarding players who snoozed the collection by making it easier on them.
    2. Punishing players who actually did the collection by making them grind for it(TWICE) all over again.

    Take a real life example, reward the children who hand in their homework late. Tell those that actually handed their homework early that it didnt count, and to go do it all over again. Does this seem normal to anyone here?

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    @Turtle Dragon.9241 : You should have started out with that point instead of pushing for a "refund" of Prismaticite Crystal which is a logistic nightmare for Arenanet to handle. The amount of backtracking needed to find out who actually obtained the crystals originally would complicate things as Shadowmoon mentioned above.

    I did in a previous comment.

    They should not change the existing recipe, at all.
    This can all be avoided, by not changing the recipe for Ingots from 5 to 10 on Tuesday.

    We end up in a situation where people who have actually done the collections and converted Crystals to Ingots have to grind all over again(ONCE more), while people who have just kept Crystals and done daily only(not bothered with the collection) are DONE.
    This whole discrepancy comes from the fact that they are nerfing the recipe.

    This is the wrong way of doing things.
    Arenanet is
    1. Rewarding players who snoozed the collection by making it easier on them.
    2. Punishing players who actually did the collection by making them grind for it(TWICE) all over again.

    Take a real life example, reward the children who hand in their homework late. Tell those that actually handed their homework early that it didnt count, and to go do it all over again. Does this seem normal to anyone here?

    My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

    edit: to use your own analogy , it's if an assignment is given and you finished it before the teacher or professor's deadline , didn't upload or submit it before hand, but then the minimum length or requirements for the assignment is lowered.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:

    My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

    Every single person who has done the collections has made the Ingots.
    Each and every one of them will have to grind this all over again for the next collection.
    I was on my way to do the collections too, I am at 120 Ingots, need 160.

    I am hoping everyone gets a refund, those who did the collections and those who also crafted the Ingots.
    I am even more hoping that Arenanet does the right thing and does not change the recipe from 10 to 5, while increasing the FUTURE rewards instead such as daily from 6 to 20 or PvP/WvW reward tracks from 5 to 50.

  • Turtle Dragon.9241Turtle Dragon.9241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    edit: to use your own analogy , it's if an assignment is given and you finished it before the teacher or professor's deadline , didn't upload or submit it before hand, but then the minimum length or requirements for the assignment is lowered.

    No, because I could still hand over the same done assignment. Not do it all over again.
    Like I said, the people who held on to their Crystals instead of converting them into Ingots for the Collections are the winners here.
    Those who converted their Crystals now have to grind TWICE, for the 3rd Collection.

    Do you want to reward people who do not do content? Is that the way to go Arenanet? I dont mind, let me know, I will do it too.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    My point is : I'm not sure how many people are in your situation where they made Prismatium Ingots (in a large number, not something low such as 5 ingots) and did not sell or use them. I suspect most people would use or sell them after making them if they didn't leave them in crystal form.

    Every single person who has done the collections has made the Ingots.
    Each and every one of them will have to grind this all over again for the next collection.
    I was on my way to do the collections too, I am at 120 Ingots, need 160.

    I am hoping everyone gets a refund, those who did the collections and those who also crafted the Ingots.
    I am even more hoping that Arenanet does the right thing and does not change the recipe from 10 to 5, while increasing the FUTURE rewards instead such as daily from 6 to 20 or PvP/WvW reward tracks from 5 to 50.

    As mentioned by multiple other people, since Prismatium Ingots aren't accountbound someone that finished the collection didn't necessarily make the ingots themselves. Someone could have skipped DRM grinding entirely and flipped the TP, done whatever PVE farm is popular nowadays (not sure what it is because I'm not a huge fan of openworld) and bought the ingots.

    Realistically speaking, other than your special case I expect that if there's a refund of any sort it will be for people that bound the T1/T2 skins to their account since it removed it from the economy (key point).

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    Perhaps explaining this with an example is better:
    Say you want to craft your Legendary, and you converted all your T5 Blood into T6 Blood so you have enough of each to craft 1 Gift of Blood.
    Tomorrow, right before you craft it, they nerf the recipe to now require twice the T5 Blood and half the T6 Blood.
    Now you cannot get your Legendary anymore, you now have extra T6 Blood whose price has been halved, and you have to go buy more T5 Blood whose price doubled.
    Would you be happy about this?

    Would i be happy? Probably not. Would i demand compensation? Also i wouldn't. Especially if i thought earlier that there was something wrong with Gift of Blood before, and the change would address it.

    I definitely was not demanding any compensation when Anet introduced precursor crafting, for example, even though before that happened i overpaid for Dusk when i was crafting Twilight. I didn't demand compensation when Anet changed ascended recipes and introduced "patches" right before i was about to craft a set. Even if i didn't actually like that last change.

    Thing is, in games like this stuff changes with time. Don't expect everything to stay the same.

    This is my situation basically. If I had not converted, I would be done with the T3 Dragonslayer weapons too, just like you would be done with your Gift of Blood.
    Perhaps this will help people understand why changing existing recipes is an awful idea.

    Not first time this happened. And most likely not the last time either. When you converted ingots for t3 set, that isn't even in the game yet, knowing full well that people were complaining about those recipes and asking Anet to Do Something(TM), you were basically gambling. First, gambling on the datamined recipe to stay unchanged (which is by no means a guarantee), Second, gambling on Anet not listening to the community and not addressing the problem. Well, you lost that gamble, but that's not Anet's fault.

    There are other things they can change other than nerfing the Ingot recipe from 10 to 5.
    They plan to increase daily from 6 Crystals to 10. Why not make that 20?

    First option helps both those that already farmed some ingots (but did not convert yet), and those that will still be farming them. Second option helps only the latter, but without doing anything for the former. No matter which one they'd choose, someone would complain.

    I also said that they could change the PvP/WvW reward track that awards a measly 5 Crystals at the end of the track. They could change that to a good 50 and make the tracks much more attractive.

    Yes, they could. And they probably should. That's a separate issue however.

    Buff things, dont nerf things. A buff to FUTURE Crystals to be earned, not a nerf to existing Crystals already earned.

    It's a buff to existing crystals already earned. It's just you unwisely decided to spend yours in advance for a content that is not yet implemented.

    Betraying their fans comes from the grind in the first place:
    Imagine if this wasnt a mistake and was actually premeditated, as in "they planned for us to grind then planned to nerf the grind later just to make us pass time"

    Then they would have gone with your choice, not with the solution they actually implemented. They would not have buffed the past grind like they did.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2021

    I probably spent around 6K on the ingots and I’m perfectly okay with taking a loss here.

    If Anet has made ingots cost more crystals instead, would those who had previously crafted them be fine with forking over more crystals for the ingots which they had already crafted? Probably not. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.

  • Turtle Dragon.9241Turtle Dragon.9241 Member ✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    Not first time this happened. And most likely not the last time either. When you converted ingots for t3 set, that isn't even in the game yet, knowing full well that people were complaining about those recipes and asking Anet to Do Something(TM), you were basically gambling. First, gambling on the datamined recipe to stay unchanged (which is by no means a guarantee), Second, gambling on Anet not listening to the community and not addressing the problem. Well, you lost that gamble, but that's not Anet's fault.

    No no, I converted Ingots for the T2 set. I would be halfway done with the T3 set AS WELL if I had not converted Ingots for the T2 set. I am losing BECAUSE I WORKED ON THE COLLECTION instead of just ignoring it. I currently have 120 Ingots(need 160 for the T2 set). I would have 240 Ingots right now if I did not convert them for the T2 collection, that means I would be 80 Ingots(halfway through the T3 collection) if I did not do the content(collection) and ignored it.

    Those who already finished the T2 collection are in worse shape, as they would also be fully done with the T3 collection as well. 160 Ingots to 320 Ingots. 160 for T2, 160 for T3.

    Doing content is NOT gambling.

    Is content(Collections) released meant to be ignored until nerfed? Or is it meant to be done?

    What I really want them to do for me, is uncovert the 120 UNUSED Prismatium Ingots I have crafted prior to this announcement back to 1200 Prismatium Crystals, 6000 Orichalcum Ingots, 6000 Mithril Ingots, 1200 Ectos. I am willing to destroy the current 120 Prismatium Ingots I hold. Customer support should be helping with that just like "every other crafting mistake people have made in the past". Instead, like Maryth.9372 said previously, they are declining to help with this.

  • Out of curiosity Turtle Dragon, have you contacted Support yet? Maybe they can help you? Though in all honesty, I say wait and see. Maybe they will refund, maybe they won't, nobody knows until Tuesday. In the meanwhile your time is better spent elsewhere versus going back and forth here, since I sort of doubt much will change at the moment.

    Also your analogy with the blood, I'd sell the T6 mats since they're more expensive and buy the lower priced T5 mats.

  • @Doodleplex.3752 said:
    Out of curiosity Turtle Dragon, have you contacted Support yet? Maybe they can help you? Though in all honesty, I say wait and see. Maybe they will refund, maybe they won't, nobody knows until Tuesday. In the meanwhile your time is better spent elsewhere versus going back and forth here, since I sort of doubt much will change at the moment.

    Also your analogy with the blood, I'd sell the T6 mats since they're more expensive and buy the lower priced T5 mats.

    The difference is Prismatium Crystals are Account Bound, so I cannot just do that, I will have to re-grind the Prismatium Crystals instead.
    Consider 8 mins per DRM for just 2 Crystals(being 600 down), you understand why I do not wish to go through this daunting task again.

  • Based on your response, I'll assume no, you haven't contacted support. I would suggest doing that first then. That's honestly what I would do if I were you.

  • @Doodleplex.3752 said:
    Based on your response, I'll assume no, you haven't contacted support. I would suggest doing that first then. That's honestly what I would do if I were you.

    Maryth.9372 has, and got declined twice. My situation is a bit different. It does not hurt for me to try too though, good point.

  • @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    2 Boreal sets. 1 Tengu. 2 Stormcaller sets. 5 Dragon Slayer sets including Fiery and Icy ascended weapons.

    The total so far to craft all of these cost about 10,500 Gold coins to complete!

    The Fiery and Icy weapons alone add 6,650 G by themselves. Compare that to the sets from Season 4, Stellar weapons at 864 G and the Heroic Dragonsblood weapons 576 G. Why do devs think this was okay?

    My opinion is just don't do them. I know that is a bitter pill for completionists. I WANT to do them but the fact that they EXTREMELY impractical is just pretty obvious. If they were at least attractive enough for the skins I might think a little more about it. IMO the Tengu weapons are just UGLY and the Boreal's weren't much better. The only ones I do like are the Commander's. I will make those for the skins and just forget about the rest, at least for the time being. Maybe next year.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

    Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

    Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

    And if costs were instead increased, would it be fair for all players with existing legendary equipment to fork over however much gold that they increased by?

    I remember back in 2013 the refinement recipe for silk was increased to three scraps. Should everyone who had crafted those scraps prior been required to pay the difference of what they owed?

    Players want compensation when something is made cheaper but then shouldn’t the game get compensation when something is more expensive?

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

    Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

    And if costs were instead increased, would it be fair for all players with existing legendary equipment to fork over however much gold that they increased by?

    I remember back in 2013 the refinement recipe for silk was increased to three scraps. Should everyone who had crafted those scraps prior been required to pay the difference of what they owed?

    Players want compensation when something is made cheaper but then shouldn’t the game get compensation when something is more expensive?

    Not comparable. What even?

    I am totally FOR people coming out on top for investing early when they make something harder to craft. Because that is the opposite scenario. Making new players pay for old missed episodes IS a thing.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    one small thing also looks very very strange. Dragon ice, dragon fire recipes is ancient ... It it looks very suspicion.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

  • DAN.7314DAN.7314 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

    Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

    And if costs were instead increased, would it be fair for all players with existing legendary equipment to fork over however much gold that they increased by?

    I remember back in 2013 the refinement recipe for silk was increased to three scraps. Should everyone who had crafted those scraps prior been required to pay the difference of what they owed?

    Players want compensation when something is made cheaper but then shouldn’t the game get compensation when something is more expensive?

    Not comparable. What even?

    I am totally FOR people coming out on top for investing early when they make something harder to craft. Because that is the opposite scenario. Making new players pay for old missed episodes IS a thing.

    This is exactly like all the people who sold the ingots early and have made a hefty profit. Good for them. But Anet is nerfing the quantity needed for collections going forward, and for those who have already completed any of the collections it sucks (whether they bought the ingots or grinded them out).

    I didn't buy any ingots myself (grinded all my crystals out), and completed 2 of the 3 collections (128 ingots). I am happy to see the amount of resources necessary for these collections to go down, but the fact I put all that effort in only to get nerfed is pretty insulting.

    128 ingots took 1,280 crystals. With the price of crystals needed to make ingots being halved I would have been able to craft 256 ingots. You will only need 208 ingots to craft the first 3 collections, and yet I'll still going to be short.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:
    I don't care about people who don't want compensation for their loss. They are entitled to that. I care about people who want compensation. Those people are also entitled to that.

    Imagine if Anet decides to cut the costs of all Legendary crafting requirements in half. Many people won't be happy. Yes these examples are comparable, so don't @ me.

    And if costs were instead increased, would it be fair for all players with existing legendary equipment to fork over however much gold that they increased by?

    I remember back in 2013 the refinement recipe for silk was increased to three scraps. Should everyone who had crafted those scraps prior been required to pay the difference of what they owed?

    Players want compensation when something is made cheaper but then shouldn’t the game get compensation when something is more expensive?

    Not comparable. What even?

    I am totally FOR people coming out on top for investing early when they make something harder to craft. Because that is the opposite scenario. Making new players pay for old missed episodes IS a thing.

    It is completely comparable. It's just hypocritical that when a change benefits someone, they don't have an issue but when it doesn't benefit them then they have an issue.

    When a recipe for an item is made to take less materials, those that already spent their materials on those items want compensation to bring them back to where they would have been had the newer version of the recipe been available from the beginning. When a recipe for an item is made to take more materials, those that already spent their materials on the items would be against any action which would force them to give up additional materials to bring them to where they would have been had the newer version of the recipe been available from the beginning.

    If you traded an item with a player and then later it became significantly cheaper, would you go to that player and ask for compensation? If you traded an item with a player and then later it became significantly expensive, how would you feel if that player came to you asking for compensation?

    Just because something occurs which puts you in a worse situation, this doesn't mean that you're entitled to some compensation. In the end, the likelihood of being compensated those crystals/ingots is next to zero so all this arguing back and forth really isn't going to go anywhere. I've made my stance and you can agree or disagree with it. It's safe to assume that you'll continue to disagree with it. That's fine.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    I think good principles of the real world should still apply.
    We are afterall still customers and Arenanet is still a business.
    The most important role of a business is to make their customers happy and try to retain them.
    At the end of the day, it is true that a company can do whatever they want, they could even say no even if every single one of their customer is complaining about it.
    But everybody knows that a business without good faith towards their customer is doomed to fail.

    Let's find out if Arenanet still has good faith now, shall we?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    I think good principles of the real world should still apply.
    We are afterall still customers and Arenanet is still a business.
    The most important role of a business is to make their customers happy and try to retain them.
    At the end of the day, it is true that a company can do whatever they want, they could even say no even if every single one of their customer is complaining about it.
    But everybody knows that a business without good faith towards their customer is doomed to fail.

    Let's find out if Arenanet still has good faith now, shall we?

    They do but I dont want them to put in the man hours to look in who to compesate and not.
    It will take quite some time to investigate every single account that traded these ingots.
    Easier to compensate the accounts that did not trade and only crafted their own but only doing that part would not be fair to the others.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:
    @Ayrilana.1396

    The responsibility is always on the seller/manufacturer, never on the buyer, specially when the mistake/miscalculation was on the seller's end.
    If someone bought something from a store at half the price because the store put the wrong bar code on said item, they are not asked to pay the real price of said item.
    If on the other hand, someone paid more than the price of the item, the store will reimburse the person the difference in good faith.

    This is how it has always worked, no matter where you go.

    In-game example:
    If someone bought a gemstore item for 3000 gems, then tomorrow it immediately goes on sale at 2000 gems discounted price, everyone here knows to email support, and they WILL refund you the difference in gems in good faith.
    If ArenaNet somehow made a mistake and labeled an item worth 2000 gems for 200 gems instead, whoever managed to buy it for 200 will just get away with the "freebie".
    Arenanet will update the price, explaining the mistake, but they will not ask for the 1800 gems difference from those who "got lucky".

    Even in the Silk situation, yes these people are entitled to compensation, but nobody is going to ask for compensation on something as trivial as Silk. Prismatium Crystals are a different matter. At a rate of 8 mins for 2, and several people being down 500+, that is a lot of hours lost, more than a day's(24hours) worth.

    Arenanet has already admitted that they made a miscalculation regarding this. I will quote, from the annoucement for you

    We wanted the final meta-achievement tier to be an optional bonus challenge round, but we miscalculated the full scope of the requirements.

    The difference being that that is in the real world which is generally consumer leaning. It leads to good will for a company to offer consumers price difference compensation within a certain time period of a purchase if the price decreases. That's not the same situation as it's a recipe in a game.

    Whether they made a miscalculation or not really doesn't have anything to do with this.

    I think good principles of the real world should still apply.
    We are afterall still customers and Arenanet is still a business.
    The most important role of a business is to make their customers happy and try to retain them.
    At the end of the day, it is true that a company can do whatever they want, they could even say no even if every single one of their customer is complaining about it.
    But everybody knows that a business without good faith towards their customer is doomed to fail.

    Let's find out if Arenanet still has good faith now, shall we?

    They do but I dont want them to put in the man hours to look in who to compesate and not.
    It will take quite some time to investigate every single account that traded these ingots.
    Easier to compensate the accounts that did not trade and only crafted their own but only doing that part would not be fair to the others.

    Or just compensate the players that used them. The ones who craft just to sell got their quick gold. In fact, making account bound materials suddenly tradeable after refined is a mistake. It always ends up being a mistake. Gen 1 legendaries never learned from.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Bandini.6185Bandini.6185 Member ✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    I saw the recipes for the new weapons and I just... laughed.
    You may have solved the problem of the prismatium Ingots, but these collections still need a huge amount of lodestones. For being able to craft the ascended version, you need the exotic first which means :

    • 160 destroyer lodestones for exotic fire collection
    • 320 destroyer lodestones for ascended fire collection
    • 160 destroyer and corrupted lodestones for ascended fire collection (amalgamated draconic lodestones)

    giving a total of 640 destroyer and 160 corrupted lodestones for fire ascended collection (the other way round for ice ascended collection).

    I'm not sure I've looted so many lodestones in my entire life on gw2. Presently, I'm still struggling with Charged Stormcaller weapons (6/16) which need 320 destroyer and corrupted lodestones (plus a nice 320 charged lodestones).

    Though being a completionist and an AP hunter, I don't think I will be doing any of these ascended collections soon (or ever).

  • Jong.5937Jong.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah, this Dragon Slayer stuff is just, frankly nuts xD. That's fine, I won't do it. But I actually enjoyed the Boreal weapon collections. They felt a bit like a precursor "journey". This.......!

    I made the basic Dragon Slayer collection, so I could buy the next tier recipes while they were available from the faction vendor, but this time I won't even be buying the recipes. Just buy supply boxes for support marks and take my chances on getting more of the equally ridiculous Volcanic Stormcaller weapons!! I have a grand total of one of those after 100+ DRMs and that came from a Deldrimor Supply Box!

  • Jong.5937Jong.5937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @Fire Attunement.9835 said:
    Hi all, I just wanted to jump in and point you toward this post regarding some upcoming changes.

    Thanks to all of you for your feedback!

    Hi Fire,

    Just to add my two penneth about where this is still out of kilter! The cost to craft the ascended version of these weapons is now not too bad. A bit expensive, but do-able. The lower tier are still far to expensive though - pretty much the normal cost of an ascended weapon, even if you farm the Prismaticite.

    I do realise these weapons are entirely optional and people are at liberty to skip. But it is a shame if even those who normally do commit to these things just walk away due to the excessive grind and exorbitant cost.

    Personally, I think, like Boreal weapons, the "Ingots" (Prismatium, in this case) should be account bound and the ingredients, largely, farmed - i.e., in this case, just convert Prisimaticite Crystals to Ingots for very little gold. This would drastically reduce the cost of the unfinished azure/crimson weapons while still requiring people commit to farming DRMs to make them. If you want to make them more widely available and give players an opportunity to profit, you could make these weapons saleable on the TP before they are bound, as with restored boreal weapons.

    Of course changing the ingot recipe would also affect the ascended weapons, but a minor tweak to the ascended weapon recipe would fix the cost of those.

    I realise this is all a little late and any change at this time would cause upset to the few who have already committed to these weapons, but that is true already. I really don't think the changes made so far are going to see a significant increase in the crafting of these weapon sets, which is a shame for those who took the time to design them!

    tl;dr: Boreal weapons (apart from the whole including the lower tier weapon in the recipe thing) got this tiering right. Just use that! :)

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bandini.6185 said:
    I saw the recipes for the new weapons and I just... laughed.
    You may have solved the problem of the prismatium Ingots, but these collections still need a huge amount of lodestones. For being able to craft the ascended version, you need the exotic first which means :

    • 160 destroyer lodestones for exotic fire collection
    • 320 destroyer lodestones for ascended fire collection
    • 160 destroyer and corrupted lodestones for ascended fire collection (amalgamated draconic lodestones)

    giving a total of 640 destroyer and 160 corrupted lodestones for fire ascended collection (the other way round for ice ascended collection).

    I'm not sure I've looted so many lodestones in my entire life on gw2. Presently, I'm still struggling with Charged Stormcaller weapons (6/16) which need 320 destroyer and corrupted lodestones (plus a nice 320 charged lodestones).

    Though being a completionist and an AP hunter, I don't think I will be doing any of these ascended collections soon (or ever).

    You don't need to make the whole set. That said, the non-Prismatium Ingot pricing could have been further backloaded to the ascended when it was designed as I suspect the T2 ones were meant to make players learn to CC and if they're too expensive people won't even do them. Right now the T2 Crimson and T3 Fiery cost similarly. Current pricing if you get the crystals yourself is around 15-20g for T1, 30-40g for T2. 50-60g for T3. Each Prismatium Ingot runs around 4-6.5g.

    For example for sword which is one of the most common weapons:
    https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-94241;1-94479;1-94843
    and for axe
    https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-94261;1-94476;1-94716

  • Jong.5937Jong.5937 Member ✭✭✭

    I do think the problem, as I described above, is mixing, in Prismatium ingots, the farmed DRM currency and a whole lot of other materials. That made it impossible to make T2 weapons require DRM participation without making them hugely expensive.

    It's all the more annoying as they managed to avoid this last time around.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:

    You don't need to make the whole set. That said, the non-Prismatium Ingot pricing could have been further backloaded to the ascended when it was designed as I suspect the T2 ones were meant to make players learn to CC and if they're too expensive people won't even do them. Right now the T2 Crimson and T3 Fiery cost similarly. Current pricing if you get the crystals yourself is around 15-20g for T1, 30-40g for T2. 50-60g for T3. Each Prismatium Ingot runs around 4-6.5g.

    As I said, I give the point of view of a completionist and an AP hunter, which means I craft the whole set or nothing :) I wouldn't bother to complain if I just wanted to craft a weapon (though 100g for an ascended still seems expensive).

    The problem with these collections is that you don't get lodestones very often. Supply of destroyer lodestones on TP wouldn't be enough for 10 players. It goes up to 32 players if you consider the cores in addition...

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Running the numbers the changes don't really effect the overall cost of completion. My calculations didn't include Prismaticite Crystals. Lowering orichalcum but nearly doubling the mithril evened out the overall cost.

    This change amounts to nothing other than stating "players who farmed DRMs up to this point wasted half their time".

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    they probably ran some calculation base on the mean value of players liquidatable assets of the entire population, which is gonna be skewed thanks to the barrons

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bandini.6185 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    You don't need to make the whole set. That said, the non-Prismatium Ingot pricing could have been further backloaded to the ascended when it was designed as I suspect the T2 ones were meant to make players learn to CC and if they're too expensive people won't even do them. Right now the T2 Crimson and T3 Fiery cost similarly. Current pricing if you get the crystals yourself is around 15-20g for T1, 30-40g for T2. 50-60g for T3. Each Prismatium Ingot runs around 4-6.5g.

    As I said, I give the point of view of a completionist and an AP hunter, which means I craft the whole set or nothing :) I wouldn't bother to complain if I just wanted to craft a weapon (though 100g for an ascended still seems expensive).

    The problem with these collections is that you don't get lodestones very often. Supply of destroyer lodestones on TP wouldn't be enough for 10 players. It goes up to 32 players if you consider the cores in addition...

    this is just my conspiracy theory, do you remember the recent removal of Spirit Shard drops from champ mobs after their *review*? I think they want to force players to spend their shards by upgrading from the lower grades

    [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]     [TTS] [KA] [SI]     [RIP Fashion Wars 2005-2018]
    Praise the Inevitable Eternal Transcendent King Palawa Ignacious Joko, the Beloved and Feared Undying Eternal Monarch of All !!!
    ... til Aurene ate him for dessert 😭
  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    Gen 1 Legendaries being tradable was intended too. They regret that decision.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @Bandini.6185 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    You don't need to make the whole set. That said, the non-Prismatium Ingot pricing could have been further backloaded to the ascended when it was designed as I suspect the T2 ones were meant to make players learn to CC and if they're too expensive people won't even do them. Right now the T2 Crimson and T3 Fiery cost similarly. Current pricing if you get the crystals yourself is around 15-20g for T1, 30-40g for T2. 50-60g for T3. Each Prismatium Ingot runs around 4-6.5g.

    As I said, I give the point of view of a completionist and an AP hunter, which means I craft the whole set or nothing :) I wouldn't bother to complain if I just wanted to craft a weapon (though 100g for an ascended still seems expensive).

    The problem with these collections is that you don't get lodestones very often. Supply of destroyer lodestones on TP wouldn't be enough for 10 players. It goes up to 32 players if you consider the cores in addition...

    this is just my conspiracy theory, do you remember the recent removal of Spirit Shard drops from champ mobs after their *review*? I think they want to force players to spend their shards by upgrading from the lower grades

    They removed those drops, because they made Spirit Shards farmable even when you didn't finish the masteries. There were more Spirit Shards to go around.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    Gen 1 Legendaries being tradable was intended too. They regret that decision.

    Did they state that they regretted it? I thought they made Gen 2 account bound due to players' requests.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    Gen 1 Legendaries being tradable was intended too. They regret that decision.

    Did they state that they regretted it? I thought they made Gen 2 account bound due to players' requests.

    Certainly not.

    Icebrood Saga weapon collections cost 10500 Gold to craft! Including new Fiery/Icy Weapons!
    *Does not include Volcanic Stormcaller set.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Eloc Freidon.5692 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Turtle Dragon.9241 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    This is all just shifting buyers remorse onto Anet. If the ingots were really too expensive to make/buy, then you wouldn't have done it. Any gold spent on this was of your own volition.

    Arenanet themselves have acknowledged that they made a mistake.
    If your car has a defect, and the manufacturer admits to it, they recall it and make amends at no cost to you. That is the right thing to do.

    The original price of the weapons wasn't a defect. It was intended. Anet just changed their mind later.

    Gen 1 Legendaries being tradable was intended too. They regret that decision.

    Did they state that they regretted it? I thought they made Gen 2 account bound due to players' requests.

    Certainly not.

    Well if you're so sure then you must have a source?

    I spent the past 30 min trying to find something about their motivations and couldn't so I wouldn't blame you if you didn't want to provide one. In the end, whether there's a source or not wouldn't really matter.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So after crafting these and testing them out, I think I like the Icy set more than the Fiery one. There are just too many sets that follow a similar theme as the Fiery but the Icy skins are ones that I may actually use. It feels worth it to have decent looking skins with not over the top effects.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Icebrood Saga Material also updated and we have 50 Prismaticite Crystal from each bag?
    the data is obsolete https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Icebrood_Saga_Material ?
    or still that reward track is useless? any info?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.