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Champions Chapter 3 questions.

Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 10, 2021 in Lore

Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan? Why is Crecia even there to help us? Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war? Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack? Where are the pirates that inhabited the land? Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

Also since when did the spirits of the wild become Bobby, Jim, Cindy and Drake? They are supposed to be ancient spirits, but the writing makes them seem like a couple of dudes from the neighborhood that you meet at Mcdonalds. Even Braham seems to be smarter than them!

Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021

    Well the Charr's biggest threat is the Dragons and they aren't showing much interest in attacking the Citadel. Their attention is being turned to threatened areas and given the portals everywhere, airships and other modes of fast transport, them getting around fast is pretty much just accepted practice now. I don't hae a huge issue with that

    The Order of Whispers not being involved does seem a bit odd. But, then again, attacking Bloodtide doesn't make a lot of sense. Given Jormag's power, why not just portal straight into LA with an army? Bloodtide is hardly well populated and if it's about strategic location for LA, well just go straight ot LA - a surprise attack would probably be better than an advanced assault/siege. Or go into the Dominion and then smash through into LA from there.

    I think trying to find consistencies in the Champions story (or most of the GW2 story) at this point is folly. They've already disregarded the point of much of the writing since LS3/PoF where killing Dragons is a big no no (I mean we saved Jormag and Primordus in LS3Ep6 only to kill them now with no worries about the fallout), just for what appears to be a big Kaiju fight next chapter.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a big Kaiju fight. It's just doing so at a cost

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Well the Charr's biggest threat is the Dragons and they aren't showing much interest in attacking the Citadel. Their attention is being turned to threatened areas and given the portals everywhere, airships and other modes of fast transport, them getting around fast is pretty much just accepted practice now. I don't hae a huge issue with that

    The Order of Whispers not being involved does seem a bit odd. But, then again, attacking Bloodtide doesn't make a lot of sense. Given Jormag's power, why not just portal straight into LA with an army? Bloodtide is hardly well populated and if it's about strategic location for LA, well just go straight ot LA - a surprise attack would probably be better than an advanced assault/siege. Or go into the Dominion and then smash through into LA from there.

    I think trying to find consistencies in the Champions story (or most of the GW2 story) at this point is folly. They've already disregarded the point of much of the writing since LS3/PoF where killing Dragons is a big no no (I mean we saved Jormag and Primordus in LS3Ep6 only to kill them now with no worries about the fallout), just for what appears to be a big Kaiju fight next chapter.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a big Kaiju fight. It's just doing so at a cost

    I think Jormag was just trying to cut off any attempt to leave Lion Arch at this point first. It is common strategy to cut off any escape first before making a direct attack on a enemy's base if they don't want anyone to escape and get word out. Ships and their port defense have always been LA's strongest area of defense and escape so cutting that option out will gain Jormag a advantage before directly attacking

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't want to sound discouraging, but the writing for the story and the dialogue has really been very poor in my opinion. Words like "kitten" being thrown around, Aurene's wording of "we can only be supportive of Braham's choice" when we do not have to be. There is no sense of scale in the world now. Characters can be anywhere within an instant. Except Efram, I do not like any of the new characters. They are too preachy, too full of themselves. Characters do not have consistency; Braham doubting himself in chapter 2 only to make the decision "to become" Primordius's champion in chapter 3.

    The only saving point is that the DRM's themselves are quite varied and I like them. But I usually play them in mute because I cannot stand the dialogue.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan?

    The dialogue prior explains this. Crecia and Malice were setting up a meeting with Olmakhan representatives due to the Flame Legion returning to the fold and not wanting to risk such act harming communication relations with the Olmakhan due to the tense history with Flame.

    The legions aren't supporting in large forces, which is why outside the three named NPCs, it's all Lionguard there, and whatever faction joins in.

    Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war?

    Apparently enough time has passed that Crecia could even hunt down remnant Renegades and Dominion with enough ease.

    Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack?

    Why would the Blood Imperator be defending the Iron capital?

    Where are the pirates that inhabited the land?

    Wiped out back in 1325.

    Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

    They probably want to keep their base a secret, assuming they didn't move in the 9 years since the personal story.

    Also since when did the spirits of the wild become Bobby, Jim, Cindy and Drake? They are supposed to be ancient spirits, but the writing makes them seem like a couple of dudes from the neighborhood that you meet at Mcdonalds. Even Braham seems to be smarter than them!

    Writing all around seems to have dropped sharply for Champions.

    Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

    Because that would require a new map, and Champions got gutted of resources in favor of everyone's nostalgia kitten, Cantha.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 10, 2021

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan?

    The dialogue prior explains this. Crecia and Malice were setting up a meeting with Olmakhan representatives due to the Flame Legion returning to the fold and not wanting to risk such act harming communication relations with the Olmakhan due to the tense history with Flame.

    The legions aren't supporting in large forces, which is why outside the three named NPCs, it's all Lionguard there, and whatever faction joins in.

    Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war?

    Apparently enough time has passed that Crecia could even hunt down remnant Renegades and Dominion with enough ease.

    Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack?

    Why would the Blood Imperator be defending the Iron capital?

    Where are the pirates that inhabited the land?

    Wiped out back in 1325.

    Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

    They probably want to keep their base a secret, assuming they didn't move in the 9 years since the personal story.

    Also since when did the spirits of the wild become Bobby, Jim, Cindy and Drake? They are supposed to be ancient spirits, but the writing makes them seem like a couple of dudes from the neighborhood that you meet at Mcdonalds. Even Braham seems to be smarter than them!

    Writing all around seems to have dropped sharply for Champions.

    Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

    Because that would require a new map, and Champions got gutted of resources in favor of everyone's nostalgia kitten, Cantha.

    I think chapter 3 open up the possibility of the Dominion of Wind as one of the new maps for End of Dragons or the Living World after since the events of Chapter 3 has begun the spark of Tengu becoming more open towards allowing people into the Dominion of Wind as stated by our new Tengu friend Kalidris Sparrowhawk.

    If we don't get a method into reaching Cantha at the end of Champions, access into the Dominion of Wind first maybe where we get our access and reason to go into Cantha during the first part for End of Dragons.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The first DRM does seem to foreshadow more interaction with the Tengu, but we’ll have to see. With that article “discovered” recently that states there will be releases after Champions that will lead us into EoDs, I could see an epilogue or interlude episode taking place in the DoWs.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    @Zola.6197 said:
    The first DRM does seem to foreshadow more interaction with the Tengu, but we’ll have to see. With that article “discovered” recently that states there will be releases after Champions that will lead us into EoDs, I could see an epilogue or interlude episode taking place in the DoWs.

    I honestly do hope we may see DoW accessed before EoD release so they can set up the reason to go to Cantha in the finale of Champions.

    On that note, I am surprised the Tengu PTSD of what happened to them in Cantha lasted this long and only now open themselves up to the possibility of opening their gates.

    We had so many Tengus before this moment that could have been voice of reason like Kalidris Sparrowhawk is now but I can only guess those Tengu may have been shunned and outcast from the DoW by the Tengu Elders due to their opinions.

    From what Kalidris said about the Tengu Elders, they have been very stubbern with the "Humans, and the other races, will murder them all if given the chance like they did in Cantha" idea to those who isolated themselves in the Dominion of Wind.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:
    On that note, I am surprised the Tengu PTSD of what happened to them in Cantha lasted this long and only now open themselves up to the possibility of opening their gates.

    That is actually reflective of real life.

    Both the Tengu, and Canthan, isolation is paralleled to Japan's Sakoku isolation policy. This policy lasted 214 years, from 1639, to 1853, and had foreigners barred from entering Japan, Japanese citizens barred from leaving Japan, and nearly all outside communication and trade was cut off. It only ended because Admiral Matthew Perry took a fleet of ships to Japan, and basically held them at gunpoint, and forced them to open their borders.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I found it quite telling that the Tengu we helped actually thought that humans ever managed to come close to "almost wiping out the Charr". The things a regime will do or say to try to justify their rule.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:
    On that note, I am surprised the Tengu PTSD of what happened to them in Cantha lasted this long and only now open themselves up to the possibility of opening their gates.

    That is actually reflective of real life.

    Both the Tengu, and Canthan, isolation is paralleled to Japan's Sakoku isolation policy. This policy lasted 214 years, from 1639, to 1853, and had foreigners barred from entering Japan, Japanese citizens barred from leaving Japan, and nearly all outside communication and trade was cut off. It only ended because Admiral Matthew Perry took a fleet of ships to Japan, and basically held them at gunpoint, and forced them to open their borders.

    For Cantha yes but for the Tengu, it slightly different matter since they still allowed their own people to leave and return as long they don't push for opening their gates so they can still maintain trading from outside countries.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan?

    The dialogue prior explains this. Crecia and Malice were setting up a meeting with Olmakhan representatives due to the Flame Legion returning to the fold and not wanting to risk such act harming communication relations with the Olmakhan due to the tense history with Flame.

    So why meet in the Bloodtide coast of all places? Sure why not meet up in a place infested with pirates. Sure that seems like a good meeting place right?!

    The legions aren't supporting in large forces, which is why outside the three named NPCs, it's all Lionguard there, and whatever faction joins in.

    Isn't that my point? Crecia and Malice are Blood and Ash legion heads. What are they doing playing adventurer when they are supposed to back helping the Charr build up defenses?

    Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war?

    Apparently enough time has passed that Crecia could even hunt down remnant Renegades and Dominion with enough ease.

    Enough time has not passed. Looking at the dates from the story, the Drizzlewood coast happened in AE 1333 and the current champions also happen in the same year.AE 1333.

    Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack?

    Why would the Blood Imperator be defending the Iron capital?

    Then why isn't she defending the much further off blood legion homelands? Are they immune from attack? Wasn't blood the most affected by the Civil war as most of Blood defected to the Dominion?

    Where are the pirates that inhabited the land?

    Wiped out back in 1325.

    Who wiped them out? When did we play that?

    Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

    They probably want to keep their base a secret, assuming they didn't move in the 9 years since the personal story.

    I am not talking about opening up their base. They have communicated with the commander earlier.
    Why are they silent now?

    Also since when did the spirits of the wild become Bobby, Jim, Cindy and Drake? They are supposed to be ancient spirits, but the writing makes them seem like a couple of dudes from the neighborhood that you meet at Mcdonalds. Even Braham seems to be smarter than them!

    Writing all around seems to have dropped sharply for Champions.

    I can agree with you on this.

    Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

    Because that would require a new map, and Champions got gutted of resources in favor of everyone's nostalgia kitten, Cantha.

    Still does not make sense lore wise. Is Jormag's power limited in some way or after some distance? Can he open up portals anywhere he pleases? All this needs to be mentioned in the story. Such a shame.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan?

    The dialogue prior explains this. Crecia and Malice were setting up a meeting with Olmakhan representatives due to the Flame Legion returning to the fold and not wanting to risk such act harming communication relations with the Olmakhan due to the tense history with Flame.

    So why meet in the Bloodtide coast of all places? Sure why not meet up in a place infested with pirates. Sure that seems like a good meeting place right?!

    The legions aren't supporting in large forces, which is why outside the three named NPCs, it's all Lionguard there, and whatever faction joins in.

    Isn't that my point? Crecia and Malice are Blood and Ash legion heads. What are they doing playing adventurer when they are supposed to back helping the Charr build up defenses?

    Malice and Crecia aren't playing adventurer. They're the ones meeting Rox, who presumably has to arrive via ship since Olmakhan likely wouldn't own an airship or have an asura gate installed. The dialogue states that Lion's Arch was assaulted and the assault is coming from Bloodtide - why are the icebrood attacking from Bloodtide is the only question here (unlike with Dominion of Winds, as I explain below; there's no "can't make a new map" restriction here, ANet just flat out chose Bloodtide over LA for some reason we aren't privy to).

    Malice and Crecia show up in LA for negotiation with Rox, who arrives via boat. Boat sees Bloodtide under attack, goes to help. Malice and Crecia see Bloodtide under attack, goes to help. The three end up meeting in Bloodtide instead of LA port.

    Simple as that.

    Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war?

    Apparently enough time has passed that Crecia could even hunt down remnant Renegades and Dominion with enough ease.

    Enough time has not passed. Looking at the dates from the story, the Drizzlewood coast happened in AE 1333 and the current champions also happen in the same year.AE 1333.

    Champions is happening over the course of 1333 and 1334 - we're almost a full year from the imprisonment of Bangar. Not sure why you don't think a year isn't enough time, since we're just talking about a single battle front (that we know about), and the entire four legions were not in Drizzlewood. But what I said was explicitly stated in the Ebonhawke DRM - Crecia has taken firm position as Blood Imperator and her first major act as Blood Imperator is hunting down the remnant Dominion and Renegades.

    Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack?

    Why would the Blood Imperator be defending the Iron capital?

    Then why isn't she defending the much further off blood legion homelands? Are they immune from attack? Wasn't blood the most affected by the Civil war as most of Blood defected to the Dominion?

    Why would she need to? It hasn't come under attack. Throughout the entirety of Champions, Crecia has been stationed in the Eye of the North coorderinating the joint response missions at the table - alongside Logan, Phlunt, Aife, Sigfast, and the joining faction representatives. Crecia herself has led forces into battle at both Lake Doric and Ebonhawke.

    She's part of the response forces, not the "I'm staying at home and letting others burn/freeze" forces.

    Presumably the Blood Citadel has an asura gate and enough defences that should it come under attack, it can handle without her immediate position because she has tribunes and centurions stationed there to handle things while she's away. Charr leaders are well known for delegating tasks to tribunes - they don't do everything themselves.

    Where are the pirates that inhabited the land?

    Wiped out back in 1325.

    Who wiped them out? When did we play that?

    It's part of the meta in the map. And all the hearts - the pirates there are all under Admiral Taidha Covington's command as a major pirate armada. The hearts focus on disrupting the forces, while the events focus on the same; the meta event is about wiping out their command structure so that the Lionguard can disperse and cleanse the region of pirates over time.

    Nine years have passed, the Lionguard have dispersed those pirates that worked for Covington.

    There was implication that the remnants of the Covington armada formed into the Aetherblades, which ended up retreating to the Mists after Season 1 (and apparently to Cantha sometime after, given the EoD teasers).

    Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

    They probably want to keep their base a secret, assuming they didn't move in the 9 years since the personal story.

    I am not talking about opening up their base. They have communicated with the commander earlier.

    Why are they silent now?

    Well, isn't one of the two flag NPCs a Whispers agent (the other being Vigil)? Plus, Pact forces are stationed in the DRMs so it's not like the Orders are completely MIA - they're just, for some reason, not one of the default factions ANet deigned to create for the DRMs. But Logan, Pact Marshal, is there and heading operations for DRMs.

    Not sure why you're focusing on the Whispers if it isn't about their base.

    Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

    Because that would require a new map, and Champions got gutted of resources in favor of everyone's nostalgia kitten, Cantha.

    Still does not make sense lore wise. Is Jormag's power limited in some way or after some distance? Can he open up portals anywhere he pleases? All this needs to be mentioned in the story. Such a shame.

    It's less about making sense lorewise with esoteric restrictions, and more about writing around the development restrictions. Because they gutted IBS's second half for EoD development, they can't make new maps. Because they can't make new maps, any threat to the Dominion of Winds we fight must happen outside of the Dominion of Winds, otherwise we as players cannot stop the threat, they would only be able to say "oh, and icebrood showed up in the Dominion of Winds, but the tengu handled it" which would negate the point of the obvious EoD lead-in where tengu are considering opening their gates to foreigners.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    So why meet in the Bloodtide coast of all places? Sure why not meet up in a place infested with pirates. Sure that seems like a good meeting place right?!

    If the Olmakhan were to come to central Tyria they would almost certainly do so by boat, and Bloodtide Coast is right otuside Lion's Arch and is neutral ground for all races due to it.

    Isn't that my point? Crecia and Malice are Blood and Ash legion heads. What are they doing playing adventurer when they are supposed to back helping the Charr build up defenses?

    No system of government works that way. Even monarchs like Kings and Queens have vast networks of people to handle such matters for them. Its like asking "shouldn't the president of the U.S. be present to help manage the defense!" and the answer is no, that is what generals and such are for.

    Enough time has not passed. Looking at the dates from the story, the Drizzlewood coast happened in AE 1333 and the current champions also happen in the same year.AE 1333.

    Again, Crecia wouldn't be personally needed in the Blood Legion homelands for this.

    Then why isn't she defending the much further off blood legion homelands? Are they immune from attack? Wasn't blood the most affected by the Civil war as most of Blood defected to the Dominion?

    Have you seen any attacks into the Blood Legion homelands? I don't recall that DRM, or any mention of said dialog.

    Who wiped them out? When did we play that?

    Way back in vanilla. There is that whole meta event to kil lthe Pirates, and take down their leader, Taidha Covington.

    I am not talking about opening up their base. They have communicated with the commander earlier.
    Why are they silent now?

    They aren't. They are part of the Pact now, and Logan is already at the Eye of the North helpign coordinate PAct forces with the five races, and the allied factions.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    Second the Olmakhan. Are they immune from dragon attack? Are they so numerous that they can just leave their home, sail across the sea to help us when they needed our help in the first place? The Olmakhan isn't a big nation like the other races. There is no way they have enough troops to defend their homeland and sail the seas across Tyria to lend us aid! Come on!

    Third, one year is not enough time for the Charr to recuperate. Lets talk about what happened, we killed hundreds of Charr, hundreds of Charr followed Bangar, the Charr also has to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon. But yet the Charr are just as strong as ever?

    Forth, the Lionguard then had the interest of clearing up the pirates from the coast but now fail to show up when there is a dragon invasion? Priorities am I right.

    Fifth, I am sorry but good writing would be enough to explain the DRMs. We do not need a new map, what we need is more writing that tells us the extent and limit of Jormag's powers. Can Jormag open up portals everywhere? Is there a way to stop the portals opening up? How many Svanir has Jormag corrupted? Can't we stop more Svanir joining Jormag? Currently, it would make more for them to tell us that the Tengu handled Jormag's minions instead of the half baked story we have.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Second the Olmakhan. Are they immune from dragon attack? Are they so numerous that they can just leave their home, sail across the sea to help us when they needed our help in the first place? The Olmakhan isn't a big nation like the other races. There is no way they have enough troops to defend their homeland and sail the seas across Tyria to lend us aid! Come on!

    Jormag and Primordus's attacks have been concentrated in central Tyria. There have been no known attacks by their forces in Elona, or other places.

    Forth, the Lionguard then had the interest of clearing up the pirates from the coast but now fail to show up when there is a dragon invasion? Priorities am I right.

    Uhh there are Lionguard all throughout the Bloodtide DRM. Hell, we use a Lionguard ship to blast the ice wall formed by the champion.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    backline leadership is a "modern thing",
    in old era kings was frontliners, if u research u find unacountable histories of kings captured in battle.
    even in ww2 we have generals famous for being frontliners, nowadays some armys find weird a frontline leadership even a army general.

    GW2 represent a bit our "old eras",

    -- Atlantean Sword --
    The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    You seem to forget what Lion's Arch is. It's not kingdom or a sizable nation like Kryta but instead a city-state (its also not a HUMAN city) as such its population at its height is unlikely to be even a fraction of the United Legions current lows. However LA is not at a population height as it has also suffered its own debilitating attack less than a decade ago. And let's say the Legions and LA did have comparable populations, its important to remember that the Legion Charr are all soldiers whereas the same cannot be said about the citizens of Lion's Arch.

    I will however concede that the the two Imperators should probably at least have gaurds, though who knows, maybe the Charr would see that as a sign of weakness.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Second the Olmakhan. Are they immune from dragon attack? Are they so numerous that they can just leave their home, sail across the sea to help us when they needed our help in the first place? The Olmakhan isn't a big nation like the other races. There is no way they have enough troops to defend their homeland and sail the seas across Tyria to lend us aid! Come on!

    Jormag and Primordus's attacks have been concentrated in central Tyria. There have been no known attacks by their forces in Elona, or other places.

    Why is that the case? So why not just have all Tyrians move down south while we deal with the dragons?

    Forth, the Lionguard then had the interest of clearing up the pirates from the coast but now fail to show up when there is a dragon invasion? Priorities am I right.

    Uhh there are Lionguard all throughout the Bloodtide DRM. Hell, we use a Lionguard ship to blast the ice wall formed by the champion.

    A single ship and a couple of soldiers does not indicate the presence of the Lionguard. Where are the leaders of the Lionguard? Isn't it their duty to protect Lion's arch? The Bloodtide coast mission should have been entirely about the Lionsguard and not the Olmakhan who have somehow sailed across the sea to help Lion's Arch, when the Olmakhan is nothing more than a small village! Have we now reached game of thrones season 8 where the entire world and lore of GW2 has been shrunk down to a couple of characters? Want help in Lake Doric, call Crecia, want help near Lion's Arch? Call Crecia. It is ridiculous. Meanwhile just forget about the humans, forget about the Vigil, about Jhavi (only 1 mission with her LOL!),forget about the order of whispers, the Priory. All we need is Taimi, Crecia, Rytlock and the ever so useless Aurene. Bangar was right after all, our small group seems to have more power than the rest of Tyria combined.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    You seem to forget what Lion's Arch is. It's not kingdom or a sizable nation like Kryta but instead a city-state (its also not a HUMAN city) as such its population at its height is unlikely to be even a fraction of the United Legions current lows. However LA is not at a population height as it has also suffered its own debilitating attack less than a decade ago. And let's say the Legions and LA did have comparable populations, its important to remember that the Legion Charr are all soldiers whereas the same cannot be said about the citizens of Lion's Arch.

    I will however concede that the the two Imperators should probably at least have gaurds, though who knows, maybe the Charr would see that as a sign of weakness.

    Didn't the Charr have a more recent civil war though? If you look at the world map of Drizzlewood coast and the Charr lands, there is a huge gap between the two places. Bangar and the Dominion went into Drizzlewood via the North because Jormag let them through. However the United legions had to go all the way across the Shiverpeak mountains and the human lands before they could reach Drizzlewood. This journey itself would have scattered the Charr. Yet aftet all this and the war, the Charr do not come across as weak or scattered. They are as strong as ever. I would think that they would complain how they have to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon and the fallout of their war before they could have Crecia and Malice run around the world saving everyone. I would think their current state would make them more defensive. Surely a race that has to ensure its survival would close themselves off and focus solely on the defense of their land rather than help everyone else out during a war. We do not see that. What we have is everyone holding hands. The whole of Tyria has now become selfless and that cheapens the whole nastiness of war and battle.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    You seem to forget what Lion's Arch is. It's not kingdom or a sizable nation like Kryta but instead a city-state (its also not a HUMAN city) as such its population at its height is unlikely to be even a fraction of the United Legions current lows. However LA is not at a population height as it has also suffered its own debilitating attack less than a decade ago. And let's say the Legions and LA did have comparable populations, its important to remember that the Legion Charr are all soldiers whereas the same cannot be said about the citizens of Lion's Arch.

    I will however concede that the the two Imperators should probably at least have gaurds, though who knows, maybe the Charr would see that as a sign of weakness.

    Didn't the Charr have a more recent civil war though? If you look at the world map of Drizzlewood coast and the Charr lands, there is a huge gap between the two places. Bangar and the Dominion went into Drizzlewood via the North because Jormag let them through. However the United legions had to go all the way across the Shiverpeak mountains and the human lands before they could reach Drizzlewood. This journey itself would have scattered the Charr. Yet aftet all this and the war, the Charr do not come across as weak or scattered. They are as strong as ever. I would think that they would complain how they have to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon and the fallout of their war before they could have Crecia and Malice run around the world saving everyone. I would think their current state would make them more defensive. Surely a race that has to ensure its survival would close themselves off and focus solely on the defense of their land rather than help everyone else out during a war. We do not see that. What we have is everyone holding hands. The whole of Tyria has now become selfless and that cheapens the whole nastiness of war and battle.

    Joking aside, you keep ignoring inconvenient arguments that have been put forth by the others in this thread and have been arguing in bad faith. I'm not sure it's worth continuing.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Regarding the portals:

    We don't really know what it takes for Jormag to be able to open a portal. It might not be practical for Jormag to open a portal somewhere unless they already have a significant champion present, and they blew the surprise backstab opportunity with Lake Doric. (Presumably, attempting to hit Divinity's Reach directly through that method was something that Jormag viewed as too much of a gamble).

    So Jormag wouldn't be able to get a champion into the Dominion of Winds directly, so they had the portal created somewhere in Caledon and attacked from there. Similarly, I suspect that Frost Legion and Svanir are back to being persona non grata in most major cities, so they won't be able to attack from inside those either. Hoelbrak might be at risk, but it depends on just how far the norn 'we won't judge you based on who you associate with' principle goes - a champion strong enough to create the portals might still be barred from entering Hoelbrak, especially under the circumstances.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @EdwinLi.1284 said:
    On that note, I am surprised the Tengu PTSD of what happened to them in Cantha lasted this long and only now open themselves up to the possibility of opening their gates.

    That is actually reflective of real life.

    Both the Tengu, and Canthan, isolation is paralleled to Japan's Sakoku isolation policy. This policy lasted 214 years, from 1639, to 1853, and had foreigners barred from entering Japan, Japanese citizens barred from leaving Japan, and nearly all outside communication and trade was cut off. It only ended because Admiral Matthew Perry took a fleet of ships to Japan, and basically held them at gunpoint, and forced them to open their borders.

    Which, ironically, kinda proved them right, albeit in a "but the outside world will barge in anyway" fashion.

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:
    I found it quite telling that the Tengu we helped actually thought that humans ever managed to come close to "almost wiping out the Charr". The things a regime will do or say to try to justify their rule.

    Could be a reference to things that happened before the Guild Wars. Humans had a clear upper hand in that war for a long time until Abaddon started getting involved.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:
    I found it quite telling that the Tengu we helped actually thought that humans ever managed to come close to "almost wiping out the Charr". The things a regime will do or say to try to justify their rule.

    Could be a reference to things that happened before the Guild Wars. Humans had a clear upper hand in that war for a long time until Abaddon started getting involved.

    Dunno, man, seems like kinda a stretch. Ascalon, even at its most expanded, seemed to be kinda small compared to the totality of the old Charr territories. Still seems like propaganda or a distortion of history.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:
    I found it quite telling that the Tengu we helped actually thought that humans ever managed to come close to "almost wiping out the Charr". The things a regime will do or say to try to justify their rule.

    Could be a reference to things that happened before the Guild Wars. Humans had a clear upper hand in that war for a long time until Abaddon started getting involved.

    Dunno, man, seems like kinda a stretch. Ascalon, even at its most expanded, seemed to be kinda small compared to the totality of the old Charr territories. Still seems like propaganda or a distortion of history.

    I don't know about that. We know that, at their furthest extent, Ascalon was pushing up into what we now call the "Charr Homelands" region, even during the Guild Wars. Sure, the Wall is technically a defensive measure, but it seems to be a fallback position, and may have been built in response to the Flameseeker Prophecies. There was a point where there was more territory controlled by Ascalon north of the Wall than south of it.

    That's the Iron Legion's territory out of the picture. We don't know precisely where the Flame Legion's territory originally was, but if it's even vaguely in line with where it was at the start of GW2, that ended up occupied in the end as well. And they were knocking on Blood Legion's door. We don't know the extent of Ash Legion territory, but given the Ash culture, my gut feeling is that they're somewhat nomadic in their home territory, which means their territory alone probably couldn't sustain the retreating forces of the other three Legions if it came to that, which would basically make losing the Blood Legion homelands a point of no return for the charr. It'd be like Russia losing everything west of the Urals - sure, there's still technically a lot of territory left, but it's not going to have the resources to sustain a war against whoever was powerful enough to take their most fertile and valuable territory off them in the first place.

    I don't think it's unreasonable to think that, from the perspective of an outside observer that's already inclined to regard humans as prone to genocidal impulses, this could look like a trajectory that would lead to the charr being wiped out (or as good as) if something else hadn't happened... like those human warmongers getting distracted by a war with each other. From memory (although I don't really have time to chase up the sources right now), I think there are even the odd indication that the charr themselves thought this was a very real possibility at the time, and that was in part why they were willing to accept any price to turn the war around.

    Now, they weren't in immediate threat of going extinct, to be sure. But another five to ten centuries of Ascalonian expansion combined with a perception of the charr having no rights? Yeah, I could see it.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    You seem to forget what Lion's Arch is. It's not kingdom or a sizable nation like Kryta but instead a city-state (its also not a HUMAN city) as such its population at its height is unlikely to be even a fraction of the United Legions current lows. However LA is not at a population height as it has also suffered its own debilitating attack less than a decade ago. And let's say the Legions and LA did have comparable populations, its important to remember that the Legion Charr are all soldiers whereas the same cannot be said about the citizens of Lion's Arch.

    I will however concede that the the two Imperators should probably at least have gaurds, though who knows, maybe the Charr would see that as a sign of weakness.

    Didn't the Charr have a more recent civil war though? If you look at the world map of Drizzlewood coast and the Charr lands, there is a huge gap between the two places. Bangar and the Dominion went into Drizzlewood via the North because Jormag let them through. However the United legions had to go all the way across the Shiverpeak mountains and the human lands before they could reach Drizzlewood. This journey itself would have scattered the Charr. Yet aftet all this and the war, the Charr do not come across as weak or scattered. They are as strong as ever. I would think that they would complain how they have to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon and the fallout of their war before they could have Crecia and Malice run around the world saving everyone. I would think their current state would make them more defensive. Surely a race that has to ensure its survival would close themselves off and focus solely on the defense of their land rather than help everyone else out during a war. We do not see that. What we have is everyone holding hands. The whole of Tyria has now become selfless and that cheapens the whole nastiness of war and battle.

    Joking aside, you keep ignoring inconvenient arguments that have been put forth by the others in this thread and have been arguing in bad faith. I'm not sure it's worth continuing.

    Please tell me what your opinion is. Isn't that the whole point of the forums. What I did was point out the entire story. Why don't you tell me how the Charr got to Drizzlewood coast. I am all ears. Simple stating "it is your opinion" is not a discussion at all. In fact you have done the very same thing you have accused me of doing, of arguing in bad faith.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    You seem to forget what Lion's Arch is. It's not kingdom or a sizable nation like Kryta but instead a city-state (its also not a HUMAN city) as such its population at its height is unlikely to be even a fraction of the United Legions current lows. However LA is not at a population height as it has also suffered its own debilitating attack less than a decade ago. And let's say the Legions and LA did have comparable populations, its important to remember that the Legion Charr are all soldiers whereas the same cannot be said about the citizens of Lion's Arch.

    I will however concede that the the two Imperators should probably at least have gaurds, though who knows, maybe the Charr would see that as a sign of weakness.

    Didn't the Charr have a more recent civil war though? If you look at the world map of Drizzlewood coast and the Charr lands, there is a huge gap between the two places. Bangar and the Dominion went into Drizzlewood via the North because Jormag let them through. However the United legions had to go all the way across the Shiverpeak mountains and the human lands before they could reach Drizzlewood. This journey itself would have scattered the Charr. Yet aftet all this and the war, the Charr do not come across as weak or scattered. They are as strong as ever. I would think that they would complain how they have to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon and the fallout of their war before they could have Crecia and Malice run around the world saving everyone. I would think their current state would make them more defensive. Surely a race that has to ensure its survival would close themselves off and focus solely on the defense of their land rather than help everyone else out during a war. We do not see that. What we have is everyone holding hands. The whole of Tyria has now become selfless and that cheapens the whole nastiness of war and battle.

    Joking aside, you keep ignoring inconvenient arguments that have been put forth by the others in this thread and have been arguing in bad faith. I'm not sure it's worth continuing.

    Please tell me what your opinion is. Isn't that the whole point of the forums. What I did was point out the entire story. Why don't you tell me how the Charr got to Drizzlewood coast. I am all ears. Simple stating "it is your opinion" is not a discussion at all. In fact you have done the very same thing you have accused me of doing, of arguing in bad faith.

    Nah, I'm bowing out of that part of the conversation for the reasons I already stated, plus I have the joy of extra weekend shifts to deal with.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm just hoping they explain why Primordus and Jormag both want into the Dominion of Winds so bad.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bast.7253 said:
    I'm just hoping they explain why Primordus and Jormag both want into the Dominion of Winds so bad.

    I think Primordus has been doing it for many years. We saw in the core game that Destroyers were burrowing into the area

    Maybe there is something magical in there attracting them or the leyline we saw in LA passes right into the heart of it.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2021

    @Bast.7253 said:
    I'm just hoping they explain why Primordus and Jormag both want into the Dominion of Winds so bad.

    I don’t think it’s meant to be anything beyond “I want to burn/freeze highly populated areas so I get more power” which they established last chapter directly contributes to a positive gain toward their power levels. I don’t think there’s necessarily a tactical reason for selecting these locations to attack beyond looking for more people/things to consume. Whether or not the locations actually make sense boils down to what the devs can do right now.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2021

    @Bast.7253 said:
    I'm just hoping they explain why Primordus and Jormag both want into the Dominion of Winds so bad.

    Unpopular opinion: Primordus is already in there, in small pockets. Jormag doesn't want "in". Both dragons are preparing to fight the DSD. Primordus engages in war games with the tengu to make sure that they are ready for the DSD's minions, since the latter are the closest to Primordus' minions in terms of their fighting techniques and behavior. Jormag used a feint attack against the DoW to bring the tengu into the Pact's fold and, quite possibly, to make sure that the terrestrial races have a way in and out of the DoW once the DSD makes landfall.

    Jormy and Prim view the DoW as a "safe zone" to which the terrestrial races can retreat when the DSD starts flooding the region. It wouldn't surprise me if the Pact establish themselves there and we got to Cantha through a secret asura gate setup inside...

    As is to be expected with the storyline, the Free Peoples of Tyria will think that all of this was their own idea and won't even entertain the notion that the Five Terrestrial Dragons have been playing the long game with the animal, the DSD, in order to draw it out of the water and into a position of vulnerability on land. Then the Twins will spring their trap.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

    Or you can follow my blog, The Lyssa Mystery.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Can someone tell me how in the Bloodtide coast, a land that is across the Shiverpeak mountains, we have "reinforcements" from the Charr and the Olmakhan? Why is Crecia even there to help us? Isn't the Charr just recovering from a civil war? Wouldn't Crecia be required back in Ascalon in case the Black Citadel comes under attack? Where are the pirates that inhabited the land? Where is the order of whispers? Wouldn't they be the first to rely on for reinforcements?

    Also since when did the spirits of the wild become Bobby, Jim, Cindy and Drake? They are supposed to be ancient spirits, but the writing makes them seem like a couple of dudes from the neighborhood that you meet at Mcdonalds. Even Braham seems to be smarter than them!

    Also why couldn't Jormag open up a portal inside the dominion of winds? Is he afraid of the sharp Tengu weapons? Can't he open a portal on the other side of the wall? So many questions.

    There was a meeting with the Olmakahn on neutral ground. Lion's Arch is as neutral as it comes. Historically, nearly all meetings of this nature were held there, so I don't see why anyone would be surprised by it.

    Lion's Arch has portals for fast travel, a conventional shipyard, and an airship dock, plus waypoints, and Charr have choppers.

    Crecia is the Blood Imperator and wouldn't be responsible for Black Citadel, only Blood Keep in Grothmar. The currently leader of the Black Citadel is probably Mia Kindleshot, who we haven't seen since Drizzlewood Coast as far as I know.

    The Pirates were defeated by the future Pact Commander many years ago, before even the Zhaitan campaign started. Remember that older maps are stuck in time, which is the whole reason we have DRMs to begin with.

    The Order of Whispers is likely no longer based in Bloodtide Coast. Their base was invaded by Zhaitan. The same attack happened on Vigil and Priory headquarters, but the Order of Whispers couldn't just stay there after that since unlike the other Orders they depend entirely on their secrecy. Its unknown where they moved to, especially after they blew half the place up to defend against the attack.

    The Spirits of the Wild chose Norn as their representatives. They were always going to be kind of dorky.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 24 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    The entire Blood Legion army can't follow Crecia around all the time. When she shows up for Lake Doric and Ebonhawke DRMs, she has an army. When she was at Lion's Arch, she was going alone (likely a small unit with her that was fighting off-screen tbh) for negotiations. You don't bring an army to negotiations.

    The Bloodtide Coast DRM caught Crecia and Malice off-guard. They didn't show up to the invasion, the invasion showed up to them.

    That said, the High Legions aren't like most modern or historical governments where they stay out of personally fighting wars, and are far closer to your typical historical fiction leaderships which stand on a hill overwatching the perceived main battles alongside the generals. (We can probably thank figures like Alexander for this depiction.)

    Second the Olmakhan. Are they immune from dragon attack? Are they so numerous that they can just leave their home, sail across the sea to help us when they needed our help in the first place? The Olmakhan isn't a big nation like the other races. There is no way they have enough troops to defend their homeland and sail the seas across Tyria to lend us aid! Come on!

    As said by others, the DRMs are centralized in Central Tyria's region. There's no attacks ever established in far off distances like the Blood Legion Homelands, Far Shiverpeaks, or Elona. So like with Kralkatorrik, the Olmakhan don't need to defend their home because no one is attacking their home.

    Third, one year is not enough time for the Charr to recuperate. Lets talk about what happened, we killed hundreds of Charr, hundreds of Charr followed Bangar, the Charr also has to deal with the ghosts of Ascalon. But yet the Charr are just as strong as ever?

    We have zero indication of the damage the battle in Drizzlewood did, but think of it like this: lore would paint the High Legions to be a few million at least. Do you honestly believe that they got decimated so much in a single battlefront? While it's probable there were other battlefronts, there is no solid mention of such - and what we see happening in Drizzlewood, while bad for the High Legions, is hardly a nation-wrecking catastrophe.

    Forth, the Lionguard then had the interest of clearing up the pirates from the coast but now fail to show up when there is a dragon invasion? Priorities am I right.

    They are very much present in that DRM - in fact, all NPCs that aren't the random faction ally, are Lionguard. As I've already mentioned in this thread.

    Fifth, I am sorry but good writing would be enough to explain the DRMs. We do not need a new map, what we need is more writing that tells us the extent and limit of Jormag's powers. Can Jormag open up portals everywhere? Is there a way to stop the portals opening up? How many Svanir has Jormag corrupted? Can't we stop more Svanir joining Jormag? Currently, it would make more for them to tell us that the Tengu handled Jormag's minions instead of the half baked story we have.

    It's one thing to tell players that stuff is happening. It's another thing to create actual gameplay content. Good writing won't develop new content. I won't say that this release had good writing - in fact, I'm of the opinion the entire Champions releases have been pretty poor writing in general (the best writing is Jormag's lines, imo, though Anet needs to fix the timing for interruptions).

    That said, I don't see how any of your questions deal with the Dominion of Winds being attacked.

    Can Jormag open portals everywhere? We've only seen portals opened where powerful icebrood were already at, so I'd argue not "everywhere".
    Is there a way to stop the portals from opening? Seems not, but you can force them closed.
    How many Svanir has Jormag corrupted? ANet's never given us exact numbers for any population, but it's probably safe to say it's similar ratio to norn population as NC to sylvari population (approx 15%). Assuming you're referring to the Sons of Svanir and not Icebrood Svanir... Anet of S3 writing, why did you make that so confusing.
    Can't we stop more Svanir joining Jormag? Technically no, because Svanir by very nature of being called such have joined Jormag. Can we stop more people from deciding to follow Jormag? No more than you can prevent people from adopting a new faith.

    And no, it would not be better to say "Jormag attacked the tengu but they handled it" instead of showing us Jormag attacking the tengu.

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Why is that the case? So why not just have all Tyrians move down south while we deal with the dragons?

    Do you think you could evacuate all of France in a timely, organized manner? Just drop everything in the nation and head on over to Spain, Italy, and Germany?

    Probably not.

    And Central Tyria's even bigger, with larger population.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Okay first off, no King or Queen or President has EVER gone into battle alone. Crecia is not a "general", she is the leader of the blood legion akin to a President. It does not make any sense for the leader of the blood legion to go around the world while leaving her homeland behind. Her duty is to the blood legion and not Lion's arch. Lion's arch has humans to defend it or did we now forget about humans existing on Tyria? Charr had a civil war and they are still stronger than the humans? LOL!

    The entire Blood Legion army can't follow Crecia around all the time. When she shows up for Lake Doric and Ebonhawke DRMs, she has an army. When she was at Lion's Arch, she was going alone (likely a small unit with her that was fighting off-screen tbh) for negotiations. You don't bring an army to negotiations.

    The Bloodtide Coast DRM caught Crecia and Malice off-guard. They didn't show up to the invasion, the invasion showed up to them.

    Why is Crecia so far away from Ascalon? And why on earth would we need help from the olmakhan. They are like a small fishing village.

    My problem with this is that it makes the world very very small. Let’s look at Drizzlewood coast and Ascalon. In between these two we have the shiverpeaks, the human lands. The game is moving us across these vast distances so quickly. Even in the in game time, the war was fought and won within a single year. The charr are back on their feet in the same year. And now we have crecia in lake Doric, in the bloodtide coast, basically wherever the game wants her to be.

    As said by others, the DRMs are centralized in Central Tyria's region. There's no attacks ever established in far off distances like the Blood Legion Homelands, Far Shiverpeaks, or Elona. So like with Kralkatorrik, the Olmakhan don't need to defend their home because no one is attacking their home.

    But is that a 100 % certain? Is mighty tyria now taking help from a fishing village across the sea? And just like my previous comment about the world being made smaller, now it seems that the olmakhan can be anywhere and everywhere.

    We have zero indication of the damage the battle in Drizzlewood did, but think of it like this: lore would paint the High Legions to be a few million at least. Do you honestly believe that they got decimated so much in a single battlefront? While it's probable there were other battlefronts, there is no solid mention of such - and what we see happening in Drizzlewood, while bad for the High Legions, is hardly a nation-wrecking catastrophe.

    So if the high legions were about a few million, why did they need our help to win the war? Not only the commander, even Logan and cas fought alongside the legion. And after all this, the war had no impact on the charr?

    Forth, the Lionguard then had the interest of clearing up the pirates from the coast but now fail to show up when there is a dragon invasion? Priorities am I right.

    They are very much present in that DRM - in fact, all NPCs that aren't the random faction ally, are Lionguard. As I've already mentioned in this thread.

    When you played the DRM did you feel that the lionguard were an actual army mobilizing and putting together the defense of lions arch? No. You could have replaced the NPCs with quaggans and nothing would have changed. Make me feel like the lions guard is an actual faction that is active.

    Fifth, I am sorry but good writing would be enough to explain the DRMs. We do not need a new map, what we need is more writing that tells us the extent and limit of Jormag's powers. Can Jormag open up portals everywhere? Is there a way to stop the portals opening up? How many Svanir has Jormag corrupted? Can't we stop more Svanir joining Jormag? Currently, it would make more for them to tell us that the Tengu handled Jormag's minions instead of the half baked story we have.

    It's one thing to tell players that stuff is happening. It's another thing to create actual gameplay content. Good writing won't develop new content. I won't say that this release had good writing - in fact, I'm of the opinion the entire Champions releases have been pretty poor writing in general (the best writing is Jormag's lines, imo, though Anet needs to fix the timing for interruptions).

    One of the reasons I play games and mmos is because I want to feel like I’m living in this fantasy world. It doesn’t matter if I do a boring quest like kill 20 wolves if the story and the characters keep me interested. Gw2 has enough content. The champions release is pretty good imo. But it’s missing fantasy. I don’t feel like tyria is under attack. I don’t feel like the factions are coming together and defending tyria. All I see are a few prominent characters who seem to be doing everything.

    Can Jormag open portals everywhere? We've only seen portals opened where powerful icebrood were already at, so I'd argue not "everywhere".

    I would think this would be the first steps we would research. Find the dragon’s limits and weaknesses. But we have done no such thing. I know as much about Jormag now as I knew when I picked Norn as a new character. The game has added nothing new about Jormag.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Why is Crecia so far away from Ascalon? And why on earth would we need help from the olmakhan. They are like a small fishing village.

    My problem with this is that it makes the world very very small. Let’s look at Drizzlewood coast and Ascalon. In between these two we have the shiverpeaks, the human lands. The game is moving us across these vast distances so quickly. Even in the in game time, the war was fought and won within a single year. The charr are back on their feet in the same year. And now we have crecia in lake Doric, in the bloodtide coast, basically wherever the game wants her to be.

    A. Because the Olmakhan's most direct route into Tyria is via the ocean, which would take them to the waters around Lion's Arch. She is meeting them there because its most convenient for them.
    B. Crecia can move around quickly because there are a lot of Asuran gateways, and waypoints, in central Tyria for people to utilize. Crecia can just waypoint to the Black Citadel, take the Asura gate to Lion's Arch, and from there reach any major city instantly via the other asura gates. The world IS small because they canonically have large scale teleportation based transportation systems.
    C. We don't NEED the help of the Olmakhan, nor did Crecia call them to ask them for help. Meeting the Olmakhan was part of a negotiations effort to have the Olmakhan possibly rejoin the greater Charr society in a more direct way, or at least establish more formal diplomatic relations between the two. That the Icebrood attacked, and the Olmakhan decided to help fight Jormag and Primrodus' minions is unrelated to the reason why they were called.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:

    One of the reasons I play games and mmos is because I want to feel like I’m living in this fantasy world. It doesn’t matter if I do a boring quest like kill 20 wolves if the story and the characters keep me interested. Gw2 has enough content. The champions release is pretty good imo. But it’s missing fantasy. I don’t feel like tyria is under attack. I don’t feel like the factions are coming together and defending tyria. All I see are a few prominent characters who seem to be doing everything.

    I would disagree with this. Isn’t that exactly what’s going with the DRMs, destroyers/ Icebrood attacking several points in Tyria. We also have random allied factions showing up during these missions.

    Also NPCs in the EOTN talk about Primordus attacking the centaur lands too.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2021

    as soon as we have braham as a champion of primordius, I think we should no longer seek any consistency in the story of this game
    the mission with braham and the wild spirits was the most ridiculous i have done in 8 years. Honestly I think I even preferred to plant panels during the LS 1.
    The dialogues of Alladin and the Little Mermaid are more elaborate.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    Why is Crecia so far away from Ascalon? And why on earth would we need help from the olmakhan. They are like a small fishing village.

    My problem with this is that it makes the world very very small. Let’s look at Drizzlewood coast and Ascalon. In between these two we have the shiverpeaks, the human lands. The game is moving us across these vast distances so quickly. Even in the in game time, the war was fought and won within a single year. The charr are back on their feet in the same year. And now we have crecia in lake Doric, in the bloodtide coast, basically wherever the game wants her to be.

    Why would Crecia be in Ascalon, that's not her home. It's not needing help of Olmakhan, it's building relations, and even if they're a small fishing village, they showed they're strong in the fight against Kralkatorrik anyways.

    As for traversing far distances in short time: asura gates allow instant transportation.

    So if the high legions were about a few million, why did they need our help to win the war? Not only the commander, even Logan and cas fought alongside the legion. And after all this, the war had no impact on the charr?

    It's less of need and more of it was offered so why not use it. The Commander had a personal stake in the matter, and Logan/Kasmeer were there as part of the peace treaty accords.

    And the war did have impact on the charr. ArenaNet just spares the mass playerbase who don't care about the nitpickings of politics and paper pushing to details. We never learned the details of Elona's recovery, either. Or even the Pact's after either PS or HoT.

    When you played the DRM did you feel that the lionguard were an actual army mobilizing and putting together the defense of lions arch? No. You could have replaced the NPCs with quaggans and nothing would have changed. Make me feel like the lions guard is an actual faction that is active.

    Honestly, yes I did. Any argument of "you could have replaced them" is purely because they had no voiced lines. Would have been nice if they did, but ANet likes to limit their VA budget by episode, and Champions on a whole has had a good amount of VAs involved.

    One of the reasons I play games and mmos is because I want to feel like I’m living in this fantasy world. It doesn’t matter if I do a boring quest like kill 20 wolves if the story and the characters keep me interested. Gw2 has enough content. The champions release is pretty good imo. But it’s missing fantasy. I don’t feel like tyria is under attack. I don’t feel like the factions are coming together and defending tyria. All I see are a few prominent characters who seem to be doing everything.

    Blame End of Dragons. They gutted the Champions content and quality for that expansion so many people so desperately desire for some esoteric reason.

    But I'd disagree that the DRMs aren't showing Tyria being under attack, or that factions aren't coming together. Could be done better? Of course - blame EoD for it not being done better - but is it being done enough to show it's happening and letting us experience it? Yes.

    I would think this would be the first steps we would research. Find the dragon’s limits and weaknesses. But we have done no such thing. I know as much about Jormag now as I knew when I picked Norn as a new character. The game has added nothing new about Jormag.

    IBS actually added a lot about Jormag, especially in Episodes 1 and 2.

    Not so much in Champions, other than the Frozen stuff, though.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    A. Because the Olmakhan's most direct route into Tyria is via the ocean, which would take them to the waters around Lion's Arch. She is meeting them there because its most convenient for them.

    Does make one wonder why, after the events of Season 4, the Olmakhan haven't bothered to requisition an asura gate. Too expensive? Could just use Rata Primus remains I imagine, if it isn't a new Chernobyl. Maybe too many still wanting isolation? But plenty showed up in FotFW, Thunderhead, and Dragonfall, so I don't think that's really the case anymore (esp. given how GW2 writing goes).

    Even if the Olmakhan haven't set up an asura gate, why wouldn't there be one closer, like in Sun's Refuge, that they can travel faster to than taking a boat to LA.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 19, 2021

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    Does make one wonder why, after the events of Season 4, the Olmakhan haven't bothered to requisition an asura gate. Too expensive? Could just use Rata Primus remains I imagine, if it isn't a new Chernobyl. Maybe too many still wanting isolation? But plenty showed up in FotFW, Thunderhead, and Dragonfall, so I don't think that's really the case anymore (esp. given how GW2 writing goes).

    Even if the Olmakhan haven't set up an asura gate, why wouldn't there be one closer, like in Sun's Refuge, that they can travel faster to than taking a boat to LA.

    Probably a combination of just wanting to remain "low tech" in general, and some lasting distrust of the asura from what the inquest did.

    As for why there isn't a gate in something like Sun's Refuge, not sure. Maybe the Sunspears just don't want it, and/or are too busy trying to get the coalition government settled down to worry about having a gateway outsiders can come in from.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    My problem with this is that it makes the world very very small. Let’s look at Drizzlewood coast and Ascalon. In between these two we have the shiverpeaks, the human lands. The game is moving us across these vast distances so quickly. Even in the in game time, the war was fought and won within a single year. The charr are back on their feet in the same year. And now we have crecia in lake Doric, in the bloodtide coast, basically wherever the game wants her to be.

    Charr now have airships and copter, even if they dont have, the pact have and can lend one.

    The DRMs try represent a "world iminent colapse" and primordus invading everything. So probably the "allies" have free pass on portals, or lend airships more easily. So humans probably dont bother with a Charr Emperor traveling their lands in a "world emergency" scenario.

    on LS3 Almorra get us a free rid on her destination - i dont remember to which place, but i remember that was very far distance(divinity reach i guess), until the bloodstone incident. Remember that Heart of Magumma is supposedly in a extreme distance too. In HoT we have this too, people "teleporting" to the the heart of the jungle.

    Due do game nature in general this is an inevitable impression, i have same impression with Caithe's journey "wow this girl run like a centaur, from Magumma Wastes to the heart of jungle always ahead of us". Or the ship we take on Crystal Oasis to Istan, if o look on the map, is a big journey and lots of lands to circunvent using sea route.

    -- Atlantean Sword --
    The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dunno how often either the Pact or Lion's Arch would willingly loan airships to other nations for internal conflicts, even if said conflict had the potential to include the influence of EDs.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Tazer.2157Tazer.2157 Member ✭✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Tazer.2157 said:
    My problem with this is that it makes the world very very small. Let’s look at Drizzlewood coast and Ascalon. In between these two we have the shiverpeaks, the human lands. The game is moving us across these vast distances so quickly. Even in the in game time, the war was fought and won within a single year. The charr are back on their feet in the same year. And now we have crecia in lake Doric, in the bloodtide coast, basically wherever the game wants her to be.

    Charr now have airships and copter, even if they dont have, the pact have and can lend one.

    The DRMs try represent a "world iminent colapse" and primordus invading everything. So probably the "allies" have free pass on portals, or lend airships more easily. So humans probably dont bother with a Charr Emperor traveling their lands in a "world emergency" scenario.

    on LS3 Almorra get us a free rid on her destination - i dont remember to which place, but i remember that was very far distance(divinity reach i guess), until the bloodstone incident. Remember that Heart of Magumma is supposedly in a extreme distance too. In HoT we have this too, people "teleporting" to the the heart of the jungle.

    Heart of thorns was beautifully set up. It had a trailer that showed the pact moving into the jungle with airships and then crashing down. In the maps, we see the wreckage of air ships. We did not simply portal to the jungle but traveled there. Drizzlewood coast did not give us any sort of an indication of a journey. Apart from a few helicopters, we were just there. A few helicopters aren't enough to justify the amount of soldiers that went into the war efforts.

    Due do game nature in general this is an inevitable impression, i have same impression with Caithe's journey "wow this girl run like a centaur, from Magumma Wastes to the heart of jungle always ahead of us". Or the ship we take on Crystal Oasis to Istan, if o look on the map, is a big journey and lots of lands to circunvent using sea route.

    Caithe's journey is still better than the current situation. I want the writers to take cues from the Zaithan story line. I think it was very well done. Loads of new characters, different choices and world building. Obviously it would take time to implement different choices in a living world release, but they need to make the world seem more alive. Drizzlewood coast has a very cool meta but that is about it. There is no exploration, there are no interesting NPCs. It is basically a farm simulator where players come in and out quickly without any sort of interaction.