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GW2 WvW current meta is the most boring gaming experience I ever witnessed

Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 12, 2021 in WvW

This minstrel boonball of firebrand - scrapper -revenant and scourge..is the most boring, non interactive, lazy, atrocious gaming experience of my entire life and it's in situations like this that I just log out disgusted....my question is why people are allowed to be super tanky and still do burst damage?

-A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

<1

Comments

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    I disagree. It just need less group healing. If personal healing could be unchanged but healing to other nerfed by 50% it would fix a lot of the problems.

  • Ok I Did It.2854Ok I Did It.2854 Member ✭✭✭

    WvW is crazy now, i haven't played WvW in nearly a year when it got really stale, but i jumped back in last night and on desert borderland the squad i was in was able to PvD a door down, while being fired at by like 6 Ac's the healing ability and boon spam is insane now, WvW needs its own balance team it needs completely separated from the rest of the game, PvE food and stones in WvW make some classes god like. At this point it feels like Anet band-aid fix one issue and introduce 5 more, not all classes are equal in WvW not even close, if they aren't prepared to separate this game mode, its never going to get better.

    Don't say what you mean, it will get you in trouble.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 11, 2021

    Clearly the answer is to nerf damage.
    I don't think lava font has been nerfed yet this year, would be a good place to start.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ok I Did It.2854 said:
    WvW is crazy now, i haven't played WvW in nearly a year when it got really stale, but i jumped back in last night and on desert borderland the squad i was in was able to PvD a door down, while being fired at by like 6 Ac's the healing ability and boon spam is insane now, WvW needs its own balance team it needs completely separated from the rest of the game, PvE food and stones in WvW make some classes god like. At this point it feels like Anet band-aid fix one issue and introduce 5 more, not all classes are equal in WvW not even close, if they aren't prepared to separate this game mode, its never going to get better.

    I don't trust this biased "balance" team..they would end end happily nerf the same ol`classes even if there is nothing left to nerf aka : Elementalist followed by slaps on the wrist for guardian , necro and engi...just QoL rev "fix" and some "out of the madhat" nerf for ranger

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Clearly the answer is to nerf damage.
    I don't think lava font has been nerfed yet this year, would be a good place to start.

    Nah obviously the problem is Obsidian Flesh, for the sake of the game we must increase the CD t o 120s meanwhile we add 1/2s ICD to Purity of Purpose there...balance achieved just as usual

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    Your idea is:
    -(The problem) Hey! That guy was pierced by a metal rod, he's bleeding af!
    -(Your solution) Let's slap a band-aid on his forehead and it's fixed.
    XD
    Problem is, that you can stack duration of boons and you can reapply them quickly af(FB whooshwhoosh boonz and healzzzz), nerf the boon generation, make them rarer and situational as they should be from the very start. You can see people running with 30s+ of prot alone, not mentioning all other boons on players.
    Your "solution" won't a fix a kitten, because very few classes have any kind of boon removal, so you want them to have even more "power" on the field than many others.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Clearly the answer is to nerf damage.
    I don't think lava font has been nerfed yet this year, would be a good place to start.

    Nah obviously the problem is Obsidian Flesh, for the sake of the game we must increase the CD t o 120s meanwhile we add 1/2s ICD to Purity of Purpose there...balance achieved just as usual

    120 hahaha thats silly says anet let's make it 300.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    Your idea is:
    -(The problem) Hey! That guy was pierced by a metal rod, he's bleeding af!
    -(Your solution) Let's slap a band-aid on his forehead and it's fixed.
    XD
    Problem is, that you can stack duration of boons and you can reapply them quickly af(FB whooshwhoosh boonz and healzzzz), nerf the boon generation, make them rarer and situational as they should be from the very start. You can see people running with 30s+ of prot alone, not mentioning all other boons on players.
    Your "solution" won't a fix a kitten, because very few classes have any kind of boon removal, so you want them to have even more "power" on the field than many others.

    making boons rarer won't do a thing as long as everyone stacks and purity of purpose exists. on a per class basis boon uptime is already low anyways lol. its not feasible and won't be effective to nerf them more. crazy thought, you could also give some boon removal to classes that don't have them.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    So you're upset that players have the option of playing like they do in other games instead of GW2's infamous Berserker challenge that's existed since release and was the dominant go-to build even in competitive modes?

    Well that's not true, sometimes the healers took Zealot's.

    It ended up this way because the initial design of the game was very bad and favored only a single role: damage. Since Heart of Thorns more roles were added to all game modes, giving infinitely more play options but somehow its "more stale than ever".

    All that really happened is they made the game actually fun for the non-DPSers.

    And from what I've seen the most popular set is still Marauder's so not much has changed as it may seem.

    Infinitely immortal zergballs has more to do with target caps than what classes or builds they use anyway. You have the same target caps on offensive skills whether you face five players or ten times that many and its just silly.

    (This is also the main reason why boonstrip is usually ineffective. It works quite well at small-scale.)

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 24 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    they nerfed the damage crazily on everything, what do u expect? it's wet noodle wars... but not since yesterday, since like a year or rather longer (my inner time calculator is messed up since corona times)

    all classes feel currently just a bit wrong, bc they don't do their job as they probably used to. if the dmg wasn't nerfed, the same people would just cry about the crazy dmg income that just makes them pop superfast.

    @Hannelore.8153 next level wrong, boonstrip is pretty effective. and really common on good groups. potatoes will just keep claiming that running offmeta is "da wae" and complaining if they get stomped over and over and over and over again.

    also this target cap thing is just a weird joke. barely anything hits more than 5 targets at once, this is the real dumbification of Wvw. nerf stuff, limit options, then cry about stale format. big brain plays....

    @Dawdler.8521 u know that this makes no sense. you can roam in heart of the mists :P there u won't find minstrels, i suppose. nobody is a big fan of these roamerpacks and gankerparties, but they are more common than real roamers these days. like, waaay more common. and there is not real way to fix that. besides... yeah u can say minstrel or any healers aren't allowed, just question is, will the other roamers agree there? these gankergroups probably not "oopsy" in a firebrand, that's the support for 5 people often used for 2-3 (so the firebrands of them can even support each other)

    firebrands still regularly die in peak bombs during zergfights. one mismovement, one strip/corrupt+pull and the "unkillable minstrel boonball tank" gets oneshot. slacking firebrands tend to die way before their groups, which is sad but not uncommon. it's a popular target for focused damage.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zikory.6871 said:
    It's not that simple, nerf Firebrand so 1 can no longer solo support a party and those groups will just run double Firebrand.

    , Scourge, Spellbreaker, Chrono, Scrapper, 4 very prominent WvW classes ..... ... Revenants

    Ah, but a group that runs 2 Guardians per party has a lot less room for all those other nice things..
    That's been one definite bit of power creep for the sustain (stand in a big clump with 40-80 people) crowd.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Zikory.6871Zikory.6871 Member ✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @Zikory.6871 said:
    It's not that simple, nerf Firebrand so 1 can no longer solo support a party and those groups will just run double Firebrand.

    , Scourge, Spellbreaker, Chrono, Scrapper, 4 very prominent WvW classes ..... ... Revenants

    Ah, but a group that runs 2 Guardians per party has a lot less room for all those other nice things..
    That's been one definite bit of power creep for the sustain (stand in a big clump with 40-80 people) crowd.

    It is what it is, its not like double Guardian hasn't already been a thing. Be a sad patch day if it were to happen tho :(
    I mean, keep nerfing sustain, 40-80 people will still have more sustain then 10-30. And those 40-80 will still struggle fighting the same groups.

    [KnT] Knights of the Temple

  • Game needs skills that punish spam, both boonspam and skillspam.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    @Dawdler.8521 u know that this makes no sense. you can roam in heart of the mists :P there u won't find minstrels, i suppose. nobody is a big fan of these roamerpacks and gankerparties, but they are more common than real roamers these days. like, waaay more common. and there is not real way to fix that. besides... yeah u can say minstrel or any healers aren't allowed, just question is, will the other roamers agree there? these gankergroups probably not "oopsy" in a firebrand, that's the support for 5 people often used for 2-3 (so the firebrands of them can even support each other)

    Well if 50 man zergs want to just PvE against keep lords they can go to PvE and do meta achievements too, thats a reasonable solution.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    They should do following:

    • Nerf superspeed potency down to 66%, add to scrapper minor trait where it is 50% more effective on scrapper itself. Do some buffs on superspeed durations on other classes, for example "Eye of the Storm!" duration from 3s -> 4s.
    • Nerf claim buff to ground so blobs would fight for objectives instead of it being yoyo bouncing between one blob winning at theirs and the other winning at theirs.
    • Nerf concentration stat from 1% boon duration per 15 to 1% boon duration per 21 concentration (like precision). This would mostly affect minstrel builds.
    • Buff siege vs siege damage and wall hp a bit, to make up for the siege health buffs few years ago, so there is counterplay to blobs smashing into your keeps other than bringing your own. (attackers already got a buff with nerf of claim buff)
    • Increase upgrade times of keeps and castles by at least 50% and 100% dolyaks respectively. Nothing kills fights more than siege servers upgrading their keeps and castles under 2 hours with minimal effort and then just sitting there.
    • Nerf something from guardian, maybe staff 2 damage (got hit 10k by it just yesterday) and healing.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    twitch.tv/ribatime
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They just need to delete scrapper, it'll fix multiple things at once, just like removing the dodge on mirage.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    Good old days when i remember seeing eles having their nag open on side of screen, drop fire field, blast the kitten out of it to generate might for a push.
    Nowdays, revs presses couple buttons and everyones got a full stack.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    They just need to delete scrapper, it'll fix multiple things at once, just like removing the dodge on mirage.

    If you also delete the guardian, ranger, thief, herald, ele, mesmer and necro it practically solves all the problems WvWers have! No more imbalance, no more complaints.

    Now you may be wondering "wouldnt that lead to stale gameplay"? No, we're all warriors to begin with. Nothing lost.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    On middle on week on evening all borders have queue. So it is not enough bored. As for me it can be more bored.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What about thieves? Perma stealth, perma evade, one-shot from stealth!? Please nerf teeef! Thanks!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MrForz.1953 said:
    Eh. Boons should have remained scarce to begin with.

    This guy here..get it! For starter boons were supposed to be mostly an ele and guardian thing as justification for the low HP at least that's what the devs stated at launch

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Clearly the answer is to nerf damage.
    I don't think lava font has been nerfed yet this year, would be a good place to start.

    Nah obviously the problem is Obsidian Flesh, for the sake of the game we must increase the CD t o 120s meanwhile we add 1/2s ICD to Purity of Purpose there...balance achieved just as usual

    120 hahaha thats silly says anet let's make it 300.

    The nerfs ele receives are always heavy handed, always nerfs 50% of more in terms of dmg or sustain or CD

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    my question is why people are allowed to be super tanky and still do burst damage?

    Technically... they're not. Pluck out any burster from the boonball and put them against a roamer and they will often fall flat. They are carried by the minstrel, that's true, though it's not exactly the minstrel doing the burst. But the fact that even 1 minstrel can pocket heal in addition to zerg role just show how strong it is. Even in small 2-5 mans half of them are all boons minstrel pocket healers, truly big brain gameplay.

    If zergs can say that thieves and rangers arent allowed, cant roamers say that minstrels arent allowed? It should be fair.

    I've been telling people complaining about thief to only bring meta classes for roaming for a while now, only a few seem to get the joke.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    hmm just thought of something interesting. instead of messing with target caps, what if aoe chose the closest to center then always chose those first targets if they were in the aoe instead of defaulting back to center every tic. that way aoe can potentially get more damage tics vs the same targets and increase the chance of downs.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Current meta is the best.

    -- Atlantean Sword --
    The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 12, 2021

    @MrForz.1953 said:
    Eh. Boons should have remained scarce to begin with.

    Boons spread to much each even outside the party/squad.
    To much boon uptime when mass stacked
    To much boons and skill ending in boons.
    Classes that support others need to boost/heal/support less themselves
    Minstrell gear m8 be in need of a stats % change since hteres less power and heal output.

    But imo one of the major boon balance flaws its the control of condis and boons, for example, Necro needs to reduce boon duration more efectivelly rather than convert to condi, they weill be reconditioned to boons due scrapers and other classes, the key is to shutdown the duration and efectiveness rather being condi or boon converted every sec in a fight....
    Firebrands heals and its boon duration needs to be cutted down, make them whenever cleanse burn or pull burn from alies will increase their stats for x seconds.
    Maybe make some boons stop stacking from diferent sources or harder to stack them.

    Slayers [XD] NSP Guild
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  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    This minstrel boonball of firebrand - scrapper -revenant and scourge..is the most boring, non interactive, lazy, atrocious gaming experience of my entire life and it's in situations like this that I just log out disgusted....my question is why people are allowed to be super tanky and still do burst damage?

    Kill a Firebrand or make them panic and their core should scramble, letting you or your team pull out someone else to kill. Their energy drops exponentially with every key support or go-getter they lose, but it's likely your side wont be down for the attempt so you're probably logging off at the right time.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:


    If zergs can say that thieves and rangers arent allowed, cant roamers say that minstrels arent allowed? It should be fair.

    I second this

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Truth.

    bla bla too short bla

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 is just wrong here in the end. like, u find not many players who play the meta classes well even.

    like, for the amount of players in game, those who are good at meta classes are usually not even enough to get two 40~ish groups filled with them. often its a core of 30/50 players that decides which 50er group wins the battle. people outside of groups have in many times no (positive) effect at all on fights.

    ergo, if map caps are 70 and less than half of a map at prime time or even reset know how to play meta, meta classes are not the issue.

    this btw also explains the "OP" serverguilds of WSR... they have a big player roster who dedicate to use strong stuff, mostly meta with tweaks. on other servers u get pugs that look like meta but run shield warrior, glass zerker spellbreaker, offensemode scrapper, condi firebrand, condi herald - which all just weakens overall zerg and blob powers of your group. ending in nothing working, ppl dying left and right.

    sometimes it's the lag, sometimes player experience, often enough just exactly that issue, that not playing meta without a lot of largescale experience is not very useful.

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ok I Did It.2854 said:
    WvW is crazy now, i haven't played WvW in nearly a year when it got really stale, but i jumped back in last night and on desert borderland the squad i was in was able to PvD a door down, while being fired at by like 6 Ac's the healing ability and boon spam is insane now, WvW needs its own balance team it needs completely separated from the rest of the game, PvE food and stones in WvW make some classes god like. At this point it feels like Anet band-aid fix one issue and introduce 5 more, not all classes are equal in WvW not even close, if they aren't prepared to separate this game mode, its never going to get better.

    That's right. There's been zero balance in over a year. Draw your own conclusion.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We did see anet hit one support build but they hit it in a way to make support over all stronger lol.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • I generally disagree with this post. Yes my favorite meta was early vanilla... but this meta is still 10x better than HoT was. Anyone whos calling this meta boon ball must not have been around for HoT when they introduced boon spam without any strong aoe boon rip (at least scourges and Spellbreakers exist now). In general I don't think this meta is that bad. A concentrated bomb is still gonna down people and if its not, then your group is just bad tbh or your builds suck. Also for the first time probably ever, every class has a viable build in large scale combat. If we remove all support options in the game, we are just gonna revert back to extreme pirate shipping... Is that really better? This meta is far better than both pirate ship during late vanilla and its better than toilet bowl during HoT.

    I really have seen any of these unkillable blobs running around. Yes the damage classes like scourges and revs get "carried" by the support classes. THATS THE POINT OF HAVING SUPPORT, so your damage dealing classes don't have to sacrifice damage output for personal survivability. I think reducing protection uptime in general would be good for the game as well as removing purity of purpose, but otherwise, I personally don't see the need for drastic changes to the meta. I much prefer the current meta over anything we've had over the last 5 years. Its a good balance between groups being able to sustain without them being anywhere near unkillable. A good spike in Winds should be more than enough to down people. Again if its not, then there's coordination issues within your group.

  • Rasfar.6921Rasfar.6921 Member ✭✭

    Get your theory craft charts ready, new balance is out!

    Throw Mine: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

    Surely this will shake things up a bit...
    cmon

  • the boons its not the problem or heals, lern to play mesmer for boonstrip, reve for spike, dh for dps meele, don't play classes with old meta, lern this new mode,u sound like the old comannders when release pof , they took a lot for time for catch the new meta, come on bored?, you just like only do ppt

  • Svarty.8019Svarty.8019 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    There are way too many strips.

    This post contains my opinion.

  • Coldtart.4785Coldtart.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    Combat where everything either instantly kills or does effectively zero damage makes everything too boring and predictable. It's never about good plays winning fights, just bad plays getting people killed.

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    There are way too many strips.

    there are more boon output then there are strips what?

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Salt Mode.3780 said:

    @Svarty.8019 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    There are way too many strips.

    there are more boon output then there are strips what?

    svarty still play necro on PS? i thought necro wanted more boon strip not less

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:
    This minstrel boonball of firebrand - scrapper -revenant and scourge..is the most boring, non interactive, lazy, atrocious gaming experience of my entire life and it's in situations like this that I just log out disgusted....my question is why people are allowed to be super tanky and still do burst damage?

    yeah log off i agree

  • @hobotnicax.7918 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Rev and Scourge use minstrel now?

    They don't, but they are carried by it. I agree with OP, WvW has become simply very boring and dum.bed down..

    interesting you say this yet players from core days are finding the current game too hard and have rq again. I wouldnt agree the game is dumbed down at all but the opposite compared to how the game was on release

  • allshallperish.4620allshallperish.4620 Member ✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    game needs more boon strip. the decision to nerf them was really dumb.

    no, when you got 10 necros with hands u can stop anything, add a few mesmer and warriors and u got plenty of strip, and the fact up have been upvoted 8 times shows the complete lack of knowledge and understanding.

  • allshallperish.4620allshallperish.4620 Member ✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021

    @Ok I Did It.2854 said:
    WvW is crazy now, i haven't played WvW in nearly a year when it got really stale, but i jumped back in last night and on desert borderland the squad i was in was able to PvD a door down, while being fired at by like 6 Ac's the healing ability and boon spam is insane now, WvW needs its own balance team it needs completely separated from the rest of the game, PvE food and stones in WvW make some classes god like. At this point it feels like Anet band-aid fix one issue and introduce 5 more, not all classes are equal in WvW not even close, if they aren't prepared to separate this game mode, its never going to get better.

    its not crazy now, its simple. You got good players and you got bad players. You have casuals and lesser casuals, If you cant kill the enemy with 6 ac then you simply lack some basic stuff, ability maybe, numbers most definetly or coordination i,.e commander. Taking a t3 keep is almost impossible 80% of the time.