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Toxic players in Fractals..

I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players... Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me. Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

Comments

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Always make your own groups with an "All Welcome" ad in the description, I find this to be the best method of avoiding those kinds of players.
    Not 100% of the time but most of the time it's worked for me.

  • Sounds like they were going to do that even if you were the top player, some people enter groups or make groups, to sell Fractals and Raid Runs, once the boss is nearly killed, they kick the "random person", and invite the friend, just so he can leech the rewards at the end.

    It's idiotic yeah, but luckily rare to see it happen, when you deal with that block everyone in the group and move on, at least you will know who they are if you meet again at a later time.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    Sounds like they were going to do that even if you were the top player, some people enter groups or make groups, to sell Fractals and Raid Runs, once the boss is nearly killed, they kick the "random person", and invite the friend, just so he can leech the rewards at the end.

    It's idiotic yeah, but luckily rare to see it happen, when you deal with that block everyone in the group and move on, at least you will know who they are if you meet again at a later time.

    why would you waste your time to do a try and take the risk of killing the boss if you gonna kick the person? sound more that he was underperforming and got kick for that.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players...

    That's not stone walling. It is literally a method to keep different play styles and experience apart. Your use of terminology suggests you think this to be a bad idea, yet at the same time your further complaint is aimed at exactly this mix causing issues.

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me.

    First off, I disagree with kicking someone mid fight or towards the end of a fractal. From that angle you have my sympathy.

    That said, going downstate once or twice is NOT usually the reason why people get kicked. It is often just the icing on the cake or the proverbial drop that made the bucket overflow. Usually this is the result of someone under-performing grossly AND then failing basic mechanics.

    Now I wasn't there, and you likely were not running arcdps to actually measure your performance and contribution to the group. Which from my perspective would not matter, I already agreed that kicking like this is not something I would agree with. It would shed some light for you personally on if your performance was subpar.

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

    That depends on when you were removed from group and what transpired up to that point. If you were removed after loot and succeeding at a fractal, while unfortunate and unpleasant, this is simply a group removing a weak link (and remember, removal of a player takes a majority vote). The sad reality is: in T4 a lot of players are near useless performance wise. All while not going down or dying at all. Often this is accepted in T4 from more experienced players since it's "only" T4, sometimes a free ride is denied.

    That certainly is a type of toxicity, especially when the group had no requirements in place. Ironically if every player who experienced this actually started monitoring their own performance, this issue would disappear.

    On the flip side, is it toxic to be woefully unprepared and under-performing while expecting others to cover for ones lack of ability? This is the mentality brought in from open world content, where a minority of players does the majority of performance. I will yield in this case though that the game overall does a bad job at preparing or guiding players to actually be effective and outside resources are almost always required.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players... Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me. Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

    Which fractal was it? Did you know if it was because of you underperforming or if they wanted to invite a guildmate? The latter is sadly not bannable for some reason unless they used racial slurs which would result in fast bans.

  • And you are 100 % certain that you weren't just underperforming for a regular T4 pug? And didn't say anything in the chat that might've resulted in that? From my experience, pugs are EXTREMELY lenient when it comes to other pugs. You really have to do a number to get kicked.

    minecrafter

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021

    add toxic in block list and be chill.
    it works and helps.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • I'd agree with starting your own party. Putting all welcome, chill, casual or something in the description usually draws players that want a more relaxed run.

  • @XDeathShadowX.2619 said:
    I'd agree with starting your own party. Putting all welcome, chill, casual or something in the description usually draws players that want a more relaxed run.

    It doesn't always work. I've gotten into passive-aggressive fights with teamates who keep changing the requirements to more elitist ones without my consent, even in parties that I form.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @XDeathShadowX.2619 said:
    I'd agree with starting your own party. Putting all welcome, chill, casual or something in the description usually draws players that want a more relaxed run.

    It doesn't always work. I've gotten into passive-aggressive fights with teamates who keep changing the requirements to more elitist ones without my consent, even in parties that I form.

    Creating a chill run and seeing that a dps is dps racing the healers or keep failing at mechs would lead to a kick. it's not toxic though, the person has to go in a training not a chill run.

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players... Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me. Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

    So more insight of the run would be helpful:
    What was the other player dps and what was yours? (your might average/quickness uptime on boss if you were hfb or alac uptime if alac)
    Look like you managed to fail quite a few mechs to down twice so it also might be why tbh.

  • @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @XDeathShadowX.2619 said:
    I'd agree with starting your own party. Putting all welcome, chill, casual or something in the description usually draws players that want a more relaxed run.

    It doesn't always work. I've gotten into passive-aggressive fights with teamates who keep changing the requirements to more elitist ones without my consent, even in parties that I form.

    Creating a chill run and seeing that a dps is dps racing the healers or keep failing at mechs would lead to a kick. it's not toxic though, the person has to go in a training not a chill run.

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players... Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me. Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

    So more insight of the run would be helpful:
    What was the other player dps and what was yours? (your might average/quickness uptime on boss if you were hfb or alac uptime if alac)
    Look like you managed to fail quite a few mechs to down twice so it also might be why tbh.

    This was the First and last (for myself) boss of the run. No prior wipes. I can appreciate and understand being kicked for underperformance. For initiating confrontation. Toxicity. Etc.. The list goes on. There was NO conversation that transpired during before or after. The only message in chat was the VTK notification. How could one not post on the forums after such an infuriating experience?...

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Riptide.2851 said:

    @Fangoth.4503 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @XDeathShadowX.2619 said:
    I'd agree with starting your own party. Putting all welcome, chill, casual or something in the description usually draws players that want a more relaxed run.

    It doesn't always work. I've gotten into passive-aggressive fights with teamates who keep changing the requirements to more elitist ones without my consent, even in parties that I form.

    Creating a chill run and seeing that a dps is dps racing the healers or keep failing at mechs would lead to a kick. it's not toxic though, the person has to go in a training not a chill run.

    @Riptide.2851 said:
    I que for T4 Fractals. Said nothing of "exp req" or dwd or any other lingo this community has to stonewall returning or new players... Anyways. Last boss down to 10%, downed state twice but no death. Vote to kick me. Maybe this infuriates me more than it should, but I do believe this community has a problem with an almost extreme level of toxicity and exclusivity when it comes to Fractals and now Raiding.. I pre-ordered GW2 when playing Gw1 and have been an active member of this community when not on a year long hiatus every now and then.

    So more insight of the run would be helpful:
    What was the other player dps and what was yours? (your might average/quickness uptime on boss if you were hfb or alac uptime if alac)
    Look like you managed to fail quite a few mechs to down twice so it also might be why tbh.

    This was the First and last (for myself) boss of the run. No prior wipes. I can appreciate and understand being kicked for underperformance. For initiating confrontation. Toxicity. Etc.. The list goes on. There was NO conversation that transpired during before or after. The only message in chat was the VTK notification. How could one not post on the forums after such an infuriating experience?...

    I understand that it annoys you but if you cannot find why you get kick your problem will remain and some group might tolerate that problem and others will kick you for the same reason on your next attempts.
    Some players are on voice so you won't necessarly get to see what they say. if my raid static LFG and we get a DPS below half our lowest DPS he will get kick without warning. Yes it's annoying but its so common that no one will say "sorry you're underperforming", and none want to create a macro for that.

    so What were you playing?
    if DPS:
    What was your DPS compared to other DPS players?
    What was your CC and was it fine for your class?

    if alac:
    what was the group alac uptime?
    what was your DPS compared to other DPS players?
    Were you the one dealing the most CC?
    if needed: was you cleans ok? Was stab on time? was your strip on time?

    if HFB:
    what was the group might average?
    what was the group quickness uptime?
    What was your CC and was it fine?
    if needed: was you cleans ok? Was stab on time?

    if BS:
    what was the group banner uptime?
    what was your DPS compare to other DPS players?
    What was your CC and was it fine?

    (look at dps/boon/cc on boss obviously)
    Also having mech log on arc can make you see if you failed important mechs.
    Answering these questions will help you way more than straight away calling out players toxic.
    And no it's the others duty to tell you what you're doing wrong, some does some don't. But at the end of the day its your own responsability to collect the necessary data to assess what you did wrong and plan what to change to improve your next run.

    If everything above was fine/acceptable (by pug standard, not self standard, yeah I've seen people think doing half their job, if not less, is acceptable), maybe one of their friend/guild member came online. Some put priority on their guild and friend and there is not much you can do about that except blocking them to make sure you don't join their group again.

  • Lucio.4190Lucio.4190 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Something tells me that you are cherry picking the events of the story to get sympathy. It could be as simple as running around the cliff side room causes the boss to teleport everywhere, making everyone else have a harder time trying to dps the boss. Or doing the same thing with Mia Trin, again making the boss much harder for everyone. Or the end bosses in underground, not pulling the boss under the buckets, allowing the boss to regen. I would kick someone at 10% in all these cases to guarantee the kill for the group, and prevent a wipe which would waste everyones time. At some point you were more a liability than a asset for the groups success, that why you were kicked, not some mythical "these group were selling the fractal" excuse.

    Even if you're right about the reason, I don't agree that should be a reason to kick. In that opinion we will probably agree to disagree (I guess).
    If you have someone in the group that goes Down a couple of times, but still makes it and the group kills the boss, I'd say the fight was successful with room for improvement. Why should it be a problem if it takes 5-10 more minutes, as long as you're successful?

    Of course, a party could have some requirements and say "We have high demands in this group". I would personally avoid joining that party.
    But if the party don't say anything, at least please explain that "You need to think like this... There's potential in your build, but you can improve by doing this and move like that... and please, the boss needs to be kept in this area".
    How can there be improvement if you don't know what to improve?

    I don't play much Fractals and I will probably do some mistakes because I don't know the mechanics. Also, it gets more difficult later. If I was being kicked all the time, I would never learn and Fractals would never get new players either.
    If a player has exotic or ascended gear, they've probably played enough and knows how to fight, when they get used to the enemies they will also become a valuable asset to the team.

    I've been to a couple of fights where everyone was pretty new and we had at least 10 retries on the boss until we made it.
    Two minutes tactical meeting solved everything: "Okay, this will not do.. We need to work as a team and this is how we do it".
    Is that too much? Please, help me understand.

  • Fangoth.4503Fangoth.4503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lucio.4190 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Something tells me that you are cherry picking the events of the story to get sympathy. It could be as simple as running around the cliff side room causes the boss to teleport everywhere, making everyone else have a harder time trying to dps the boss. Or doing the same thing with Mia Trin, again making the boss much harder for everyone. Or the end bosses in underground, not pulling the boss under the buckets, allowing the boss to regen. I would kick someone at 10% in all these cases to guarantee the kill for the group, and prevent a wipe which would waste everyones time. At some point you were more a liability than a asset for the groups success, that why you were kicked, not some mythical "these group were selling the fractal" excuse.

    Even if you're right about the reason, I don't agree that should be a reason to kick. In that opinion we will probably agree to disagree (I guess).
    If you have someone in the group that goes Down a couple of times, but still makes it and the group kills the boss, I'd say the fight was successful with room for improvement. Why should it be a problem if it takes 5-10 more minutes, as long as you're successful?

    Of course, a party could have some requirements and say "We have high demands in this group". I would personally avoid joining that party.
    But if the party don't say anything, at least please explain that "You need to think like this... There's potential in your build, but you can improve by doing this and move like that... and please, the boss needs to be kept in this area".
    How can there be improvement if you don't know what to improve?

    I don't play much Fractals and I will probably do some mistakes because I don't know the mechanics. Also, it gets more difficult later. If I was being kicked all the time, I would never learn and Fractals would never get new players either.
    If a player has exotic or ascended gear, they've probably played enough and knows how to fight, when they get used to the enemies they will also become a valuable asset to the team.

    I've been to a couple of fights where everyone was pretty new and we had at least 10 retries on the boss until we made it.
    Two minutes tactical meeting solved everything: "Okay, this will not do.. We need to work as a team and this is how we do it".
    Is that too much? Please, help me understand.

    chill run != training
    you're describing a traing not a chill run ;)
    i a chill run it is expected for people to know mech and do descently at it while being fine with lower dps because boon arn't necessarly there (eg runing a druid instead of an hfb) and playing dps classes that are not made for fractal. but still the overall level should be correct.
    for mech discovery you go to/create training run. for class discovery you read class guide and go practice on golem

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    dont forget: you can run wiht only guild members and close any random pug criticizm/toxity

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 18, 2021

    @Lucio.4190 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    Something tells me that you are cherry picking the events of the story to get sympathy. It could be as simple as running around the cliff side room causes the boss to teleport everywhere, making everyone else have a harder time trying to dps the boss. Or doing the same thing with Mia Trin, again making the boss much harder for everyone. Or the end bosses in underground, not pulling the boss under the buckets, allowing the boss to regen. I would kick someone at 10% in all these cases to guarantee the kill for the group, and prevent a wipe which would waste everyones time. At some point you were more a liability than a asset for the groups success, that why you were kicked, not some mythical "these group were selling the fractal" excuse.

    Even if you're right about the reason, I don't agree that should be a reason to kick. In that opinion we will probably agree to disagree (I guess).
    If you have someone in the group that goes Down a couple of times, but still makes it and the group kills the boss, I'd say the fight was successful with room for improvement. Why should it be a problem if it takes 5-10 more minutes, as long as you're successful?

    Of course, a party could have some requirements and say "We have high demands in this group". I would personally avoid joining that party.
    But if the party don't say anything, at least please explain that "You need to think like this... There's potential in your build, but you can improve by doing this and move like that... and please, the boss needs to be kept in this area".
    How can there be improvement if you don't know what to improve?

    I don't play much Fractals and I will probably do some mistakes because I don't know the mechanics. Also, it gets more difficult later. If I was being kicked all the time, I would never learn and Fractals would never get new players either.
    If a player has exotic or ascended gear, they've probably played enough and knows how to fight, when they get used to the enemies they will also become a valuable asset to the team.

    I've been to a couple of fights where everyone was pretty new and we had at least 10 retries on the boss until we made it.
    Two minutes tactical meeting solved everything: "Okay, this will not do.. We need to work as a team and this is how we do it".
    Is that too much? Please, help me understand.

    I was not there, but I have puged many fractals, and have seen many clown fiestas. But when fractals should take up to 15 minutes to complete, tacking on another 10 minutes is a horrible RoI. And we still do not know which encounter it was, for all we know it was Ai, and the op was refusing to stack for tidal burden. That mechanic can wipe a group, and Ai already is a long fight with all the RP phase transistions.
    Edit: Checked the dailies for the date of the original post, appears the boss probably was 100 with fratity and stick together. 10% should be when ai is doing her second water DM with pug dps. The kick probably prevented a wipe from tidal burden.

  • Lucio.4190Lucio.4190 Member ✭✭✭

    As I understand, there's always two sides of every story and both have different purpose of playing Fractals, Raid or Dungeon.
    Also, both see the other side as toxic. Ruining their gaming experience.
    On one side, we have the casual player and the beginners. Lots of patience with other players and focus is on just "making it to the finish line".
    On the other side, we have the grinding party that needs to succeed on x amount of rounds before each update to max out the RoI.

    Am I missing out on something, or did I get it all wrong?

  • ShadowCatz.8437ShadowCatz.8437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    Sounds like they were going to do that even if you were the top player, some people enter groups or make groups, to sell Fractals and Raid Runs, once the boss is nearly killed, they kick the "random person", and invite the friend, just so he can leech the rewards at the end.

    It's idiotic yeah, but luckily rare to see it happen, when you deal with that block everyone in the group and move on, at least you will know who they are if you meet again at a later time.

    How do you block people after you have been kicked? As far as I know I can not see any traces from Party as this vanish when group have been left independent of being kicked or people leaves group (when group have been disbanded). It is annoying during DRM runs when you might want to say something and don't even recall who is who and just want to thank for a good run with those people in group (party).

  • Fully agree with Shadowmoon. Without any context this is a worthless thread. There are a lot of average T4 players that are not team players; they kinda wander around and do their own thing running homebrew builds that do very little damage or offer little group utility. I've seen a lot of signet builds over the past several years where I've just noped the heck out of the group realizing that they're going to tolerate things like Death Carapace or Adrenal Health - things that don't qualify as "DPS," except in the lowest standard possible.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @ShadowCatz.8437 said:

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    Sounds like they were going to do that even if you were the top player, some people enter groups or make groups, to sell Fractals and Raid Runs, once the boss is nearly killed, they kick the "random person", and invite the friend, just so he can leech the rewards at the end.

    It's idiotic yeah, but luckily rare to see it happen, when you deal with that block everyone in the group and move on, at least you will know who they are if you meet again at a later time.

    How do you block people after you have been kicked? As far as I know I can not see any traces from Party as this vanish when group have been left independent of being kicked or people leaves group (when group have been disbanded). It is annoying during DRM runs when you might want to say something and don't even recall who is who and just want to thank for a good run with those people in group (party).

    Even if you block people simply because they are kitten, it doesn't help because blocking doesn't protect you from them rejoining another group, antoher day with you xx.