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The Eye of the South?

Kovac.4372Kovac.4372 Member ✭✭✭

So we have the Eye of the North ... don't know who built it ... all we know it has this unique magical pool there. So what I'm thinking, what about other "Eyes" being in the world?

Like the Eye of the South somewhere south of Cantha where the humans came from when first arriving to Tyria.

I'm getting some "palantir" (lord of the rings) vibes here.

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s an interesting idea. I guess it depends on who built it because if it was say the Jotun or the Seers, I’m not sure there is any evidence they were anywhere else.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    would be great. Aurene said something about "feelings interconnections".

    Also they could ressurect the leyline map.

    -- Atlantean Sword --
    The secret of steel has always carried with it a mystery. You must learn its riddle, Conan. You must learn its discipline. For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men, not women, not beasts..." [Points to sword] "This you can trust."

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021

    All we know is that no known race of beings was involved with it's construction and that it ironically resembles Arah architecture which is interesting since Arah I believe was constructed by the human Gods and maintained by Humans after they left Tyria.

    Given the location though.. built on a lake and it features a magical pool of all things that is often used to discover information about things we shouldn't know.. in essence secrets if you want to use that word.
    And taking into consideration the familiar architecture to Arah..

    My best guess would be that one of the human Gods created the Eye in secret for some unknown reason.
    Factoring in the whole secret element of it's construction and of course the association with water (it's location and the scrying pool) and of course the nature of all the Gods themselves the most logical God I would suspect to have possibly created the Eye would be Abaddon.

    There's also the irony of the name.. Eye of the North and Abaddon is known for having multiple eyes but I'm not sure where the Eye of the North even gets it's name.. historic text or that was just what mortals decided to call it.

    But yeah my best guess would be Abaddon built it in secret but who knows why.. maybe he knew everything that was going to happen over the years and played his role as both a divine and a villain because he knew it was the only way to save the world from a future threat.. everything he did for the greater good.
    Guess we'll never know eh lol

    If it is associated with Abaddon and there are more of them and the whole Eye name comes from historic texts or something then it probably wouldn't be too far of a stretch to assume that there are may be 6 of them in total.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is a pretty fun idea that I would be down for... If I remember correctly there is some indication of other scrying pools in universe, but I can't remember if that was a line somewhere in the game or lore, or if it was wishful thinking on someone else's part.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2021

    In-universe, since the creators of the Eye of the North are unknown, and there's no mention or visible writing anywhere around in either game, the name was likely dubbed by one of the locals seen in GW1. Humans, norn, and dwarves being the most likely candidates. Norn the least, because they're in the north and live north of the Eye so to them the Eye of the North would be the Eye of the South. So dwarf or human giving it the name makes most sense - of them, Ebon Vanguard.

    Given the lack of records and writing (by all appearances), it's likely named by the people who found the place rather than created it, there is unlikely to be an "Eye of the South" (by name that is). The name is actually pretty descriptive: Eye, because Scrying Pool; of the North, because it's in the north. The name "Eye of the North" is basically just saying "building with a Scrying Pool north of our home". Would make sense the Ebon Vanguard gave it that name - since norn have their own language (which is sadly never once spoken or alluded to other than its existence and that it contains more than one word for "hunt"), they probably called it something else. Given the lore, its name probably would translate into "Forbidden Tower" or something.

    Now if there's other locations like it, pretty much fully depends on who created such. There's only one solid lead we have, which comes from the 2009 PCGamer magazine that gave a bit of lore for EotN and GW2. On the Eye of the North it says:

    The Eye of the North looms over the land, an imposing structure of indeterminate origin. It is not human, dwarven, or asuran in construction, although it resembles the architecture of Arah and other godly sites.
    Norn who settled the Far Shiverpeaks first "discovered" the Eye. They sensed something unnatural about its construction, and assiduously avoided it. In recent years the Ebon Vanguard (a detachment of Ascalonian soldiers, bolstered by refugees and exiles from the charr invasion) made this area its base and became the protector of the structure.
    The Eye is built on a perpetually frozen alpine lake. A single, easily defended entrance leads to a wide circular chamber. To the read of the Eye is a separate chamber dominated by a large pool. The Vanguard suspect the pool to be a scrying device, but it remains dormant. It seems to be waiting for someone in particular...

    The bold being the important part. Now it obviously doesn't match GW2's designs of Arah, but if we look at the one depiction of Orr in GW1, it does bare some resemblance.

    So the implication that was being given is that the Eye was likely built by the same beings who build Arah. While the common belief by humans is that the Six Gods built Arah, there's more than one hint that Arah predates the Six Gods' time on the planet (namely Orrian History Scrolls and The Altar of Glaust - the former mentioning Dwayna arriving at Arah and talking about stones and gates as if Arah already exists; the latter being used by Forgotten before the Six Gods were around and the altar wasn't moved).

    So to direct towards the OP:

    Could more structures built by these people exist? It would seem yes,.

    Would they contain scrying pools? Not necessarily.

    Can other scrying pools exist? They most certainly do, even Bahltek was making one.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As far as we know it’s not something that has parallels or one for each direction. It’s just called north because it’s in the far north from tyria. So there’s no precedent or hint, but it would be cool seeing one in the south

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    In-universe, since the creators of the Eye of the North are unknown, and there's no mention or visible writing anywhere around in either game, the name was likely dubbed by one of the locals seen in GW1. Humans, norn, and dwarves being the most likely candidates. Norn the least, because they're in the north and live north of the Eye so to them the Eye of the North would be the Eye of the South. So dwarf or human giving it the name makes most sense - of them, Ebon Vanguard.

    Given the lack of records and writing (by all appearances), it's likely named by the people who found the place rather than created it, there is unlikely to be an "Eye of the South" (by name that is). The name is actually pretty descriptive: Eye, because Scrying Pool; of the North, because it's in the north. The name "Eye of the North" is basically just saying "building with a Scrying Pool north of our home". Would make sense the Ebon Vanguard gave it that name - since norn have their own language (which is sadly never once spoken or alluded to other than its existence and that it contains more than one word for "hunt"), they probably called it something else. Given the lore, its name probably would translate into "Forbidden Tower" or something.

    Now if there's other locations like it, pretty much fully depends on who created such. There's only one solid lead we have, which comes from the 2009 PCGamer magazine that gave a bit of lore for EotN and GW2. On the Eye of the North it says:

    The Eye of the North looms over the land, an imposing structure of indeterminate origin. It is not human, dwarven, or asuran in construction, although it resembles the architecture of Arah and other godly sites.
    Norn who settled the Far Shiverpeaks first "discovered" the Eye. They sensed something unnatural about its construction, and assiduously avoided it. In recent years the Ebon Vanguard (a detachment of Ascalonian soldiers, bolstered by refugees and exiles from the charr invasion) made this area its base and became the protector of the structure.
    The Eye is built on a perpetually frozen alpine lake. A single, easily defended entrance leads to a wide circular chamber. To the read of the Eye is a separate chamber dominated by a large pool. The Vanguard suspect the pool to be a scrying device, but it remains dormant. It seems to be waiting for someone in particular...

    The bold being the important part. Now it obviously doesn't match GW2's designs of Arah, but if we look at the one depiction of Orr in GW1, it does bare some resemblance.

    So the implication that was being given is that the Eye was likely built by the same beings who build Arah. While the common belief by humans is that the Six Gods built Arah, there's more than one hint that Arah predates the Six Gods' time on the planet (namely Orrian History Scrolls and The Altar of Glaust - the former mentioning Dwayna arriving at Arah and talking about stones and gates as if Arah already exists; the latter being used by Forgotten before the Six Gods were around and the altar wasn't moved).

    So to direct towards the OP:

    Could more structures built by these people exist? It would seem yes,.

    Would they contain scrying pools? Not necessarily.

    Can other scrying pools exist? They most certainly do, even Bahltek was making one.

    It always feels like there's been a potential opportunity to expand more on the Artesian Waters in Arah. Something beyond Zhaitan resting beneath the city.

    I'm definitely not a lore expert but didn't the waters exist before the gods arrived? Isn't that what drew the Gods to Tyria from the Mists anyway? Is the assumption that it was really Zhaitan's magic that did that? Because it feels like it's left pretty open.

    It's a shame that in all of this Saga dealing with the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Eye of the North we still haven't gotten anymore lore on the Scrying pool or the original creators. I suppose there's still time but the story feels pretty focused on Primordus and Jormag right now.

  • @Bast.7253 said:
    It always feels like there's been a potential opportunity to expand more on the Artesian Waters in Arah. Something beyond Zhaitan resting beneath the city.

    The only link between zhaitan and Artesian waters was that by corrupting artesian Waters, Zhaitan corrupted entire Orr

    I'm definitely not a lore expert but didn't the waters exist before the gods arrived? Isn't that what drew the Gods to Tyria from the Mists anyway? Is the assumption that it was really Zhaitan's magic that did that? Because it feels like it's left pretty open.

    Not sure about the part of artesian Waters "being the thing that drew the Gods to Tyria", but I do not recall any mention that Zhaiontan's magic was anyhow responsible for creation of it. He just exploited it to his advantage. (As for link between Artesian Waters and human gods, it is the place where the gods have first set foot on tyria)

    It's a shame that in all of this Saga dealing with the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Eye of the North we still haven't gotten anymore lore on the Scrying pool or the original creators. I suppose there's still time but the story feels pretty focused on Primordus and Jormag right now.

    It feels like basically same deal as in Eye of the North expansion - we don't know a thing on how or why, but it's a decent place for a base of operations.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    So the implication that was being given is that the Eye was likely built by the same beings who build Arah. While the common belief by humans is that the Six Gods built Arah, there's more than one hint that Arah predates the Six Gods' time on the planet (namely Orrian History Scrolls and The Altar of Glaust - the former mentioning Dwayna arriving at Arah and talking about stones and gates as if Arah already exists; the latter being used by Forgotten before the Six Gods were around and the altar wasn't moved).

    So to direct towards the OP:

    Could more structures built by these people exist? It would seem yes,.

    Would they contain scrying pools? Not necessarily.

    Can other scrying pools exist? They most certainly do, even Bahltek was making one.

    I always assumed it was the race of Seer's that made the Eye in gw1 when I played and give gw2 new lore my bet is on them even more.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bast.7253 said:
    It always feels like there's been a potential opportunity to expand more on the Artesian Waters in Arah. Something beyond Zhaitan resting beneath the city.

    I'm definitely not a lore expert but didn't the waters exist before the gods arrived? Isn't that what drew the Gods to Tyria from the Mists anyway? Is the assumption that it was really Zhaitan's magic that did that? Because it feels like it's left pretty open.

    It's a shame that in all of this Saga dealing with the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Eye of the North we still haven't gotten anymore lore on the Scrying pool or the original creators. I suppose there's still time but the story feels pretty focused on Primordus and Jormag right now.

    The Gods were indeed drawn to the Artesian Waters and not Zhaitan, I never mentioned they were drawn to Zhaitan though? And it isn't left open, it's answered explicitly in the personal story:

    Trahearne: Human myth says that when the Six Gods came to Tyria, they built the city of Arah. The "source" must be the place where they first set foot on Tyria.
    PC: A place so powerful that it drew the attention of Gods from deep in the Mists? It must be amazing.
    Trahearne: No matter what our personal beliefs, the source of Orr might be the only thing powerful enough to cleanse Orr. We must go there and see for ourselves.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Silence_(story)#Dialogue

    The source being the Artesian Waters as clarified in another dialogue line in that instance.

    And we did get one small tidbit of lore about the Eye of the North in Episode 2:

    Aurene: The Eye of the North. A confluence of energies drew me here. It's a place of tremendous power, connected through time.

    Aurene: So you're drawn to the Scrying Pool as well? Its waters connect many threads in the Mists. Threads throughout time.
    Aurene: I believe that power drew me to this place. But I'll need more time to understand it.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voice_in_the_Deep#Eye_of_the_North

    This Scrying Pool is species, and is somehow connected to the Mists. Also seems to be on top of a ley-line hub or otherwise similar to The Artesian Waters as a confluence of energies.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Bast.7253 said:
    It always feels like there's been a potential opportunity to expand more on the Artesian Waters in Arah. Something beyond Zhaitan resting beneath the city.

    I'm definitely not a lore expert but didn't the waters exist before the gods arrived? Isn't that what drew the Gods to Tyria from the Mists anyway? Is the assumption that it was really Zhaitan's magic that did that? Because it feels like it's left pretty open.

    It's a shame that in all of this Saga dealing with the Northern Shiverpeaks and the Eye of the North we still haven't gotten anymore lore on the Scrying pool or the original creators. I suppose there's still time but the story feels pretty focused on Primordus and Jormag right now.

    The Gods were indeed drawn to the Artesian Waters and not Zhaitan, I never mentioned they were drawn to Zhaitan though? And it isn't left open, it's answered explicitly in the personal story:

    Trahearne: Human myth says that when the Six Gods came to Tyria, they built the city of Arah. The "source" must be the place where they first set foot on Tyria.
    PC: A place so powerful that it drew the attention of Gods from deep in the Mists? It must be amazing.
    Trahearne: No matter what our personal beliefs, the source of Orr might be the only thing powerful enough to cleanse Orr. We must go there and see for ourselves.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Silence_(story)#Dialogue

    The source being the Artesian Waters as clarified in another dialogue line in that instance.

    And we did get one small tidbit of lore about the Eye of the North in Episode 2:

    Aurene: The Eye of the North. A confluence of energies drew me here. It's a place of tremendous power, connected through time.

    Aurene: So you're drawn to the Scrying Pool as well? Its waters connect many threads in the Mists. Threads throughout time.
    Aurene: I believe that power drew me to this place. But I'll need more time to understand it.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Voice_in_the_Deep#Eye_of_the_North

    This Scrying Pool is species, and is somehow connected to the Mists. Also seems to be on top of a ley-line hub or otherwise similar to The Artesian Waters as a confluence of energies.

    No, I've just seen people suggest that the reason they were drawn to Tyria and the Artesian waters was because of Zhaitan's magic seeping up from underneath Arah or something.

    I guess what I was getting at is the possibility that the Artesian waters in Orr and the Scrying pool are of the same substance, or perhaps the scrying pool itself was created with water from the Artesian Spring. We just used the Artesian Waters to cleanse Orr but I wonder if it doesn't have some capability to behave as a scrying pool as well.

    And we got a little bit from Aurene, but that was pretty early on. I was hoping we would continue to get more as the story progressed but it's just been Aurene and Jormag's cryptic bickering all saga.