Soulbeast Repeatedly Reviving Pet Unconsequentially, Fair? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions Ranger

Soulbeast Repeatedly Reviving Pet Unconsequentially, Fair?

Before I get into this topic, I want to say this: I am not trying to judge this in relativity to other classes, how ranger stands in the pvp meta, or any other external factors. I don't need a compiled argument on why ranger is in an awkward spot and deserves to have near-abusable mechanics. I'm merely questioning whether or not soulbeast's ability to fully revive their pet every 10 seconds using beastmode is fair or legitimate in comparison to the other ranger specs or in combat against other classes, especially when killing some pets and/or taking even a few key hits from them is quite a pain in the posterior.

That said, is it intended, fair, or legitimate for soulbeast to be able to revive and/or full reset their pet without any consequences by entering beastmode and then leaving it? As far as I know, there's no cooldown or lockout penalties to at least the more troublesome part of reviving a pet in doing so, such as adding a penalty skill lockout and/or extending the period of time before being able to leave beastmode when merging with a dead pet, or extending the cooldown of re-entering beastmode after merging and unmerging with a dead pet to rally it. I would certainly not argue that killing a soulbeast's pet should bar them from using beastmode until it's revived by other means (that'd be extremely cruel given some pet healthpools and refusal to avoid area spells), but some penalty on the constant ability to revive a dead pet using beastmode to balance the cost other classes pay to kill said pet would seem fair.

However, that's just my opinion, which I try to balance since I myself am not a ranger main any more: what do you all think of this beastmode revive trick? Is it fair to have, given they cannot juggle pets or heal pets constantly like druids and cores can to avoid pet death, or rather is it legitimate since it's only a duelist trick and they should excel in dueling environments, or does it still deserve some drawbacks to it since it's still a powerful capability? I haven't seen anyone else address this, so I figured I'd at least see what others think of it.

Comments

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    Soulbeast merging already comes with drawbacks of some traits not actually working/having effects when merged so it does not need anymore penalties.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 15, 2021

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:
    Before I get into this topic, I want to say this: I am not trying to judge this in relativity to other classes, how ranger stands in the pvp meta, or any other external factors. I don't need a compiled argument on why ranger is in an awkward spot and deserves to have near-abusable mechanics. I'm merely questioning whether or not soulbeast's ability to fully revive their pet every 10 seconds using beastmode is fair or legitimate in comparison to the other ranger specs or in combat against other classes, especially when killing some pets and/or taking even a few key hits from them is quite a pain in the posterior.

    That said, is it intended, fair, or legitimate for soulbeast to be able to revive and/or full reset their pet without any consequences by entering beastmode and then leaving it? As far as I know, there's no cooldown or lockout penalties to at least the more troublesome part of reviving a pet in doing so, such as adding a penalty skill lockout and/or extending the period of time before being able to leave beastmode when merging with a dead pet, or extending the cooldown of re-entering beastmode after merging and unmerging with a dead pet to rally it. I would certainly not argue that killing a soulbeast's pet should bar them from using beastmode until it's revived by other means (that'd be extremely cruel given some pet healthpools and refusal to avoid area spells), but some penalty on the constant ability to revive a dead pet using beastmode to balance the cost other classes pay to kill said pet would seem fair.

    However, that's just my opinion, which I try to balance since I myself am not a ranger main any more: what do you all think of this beastmode revive trick? Is it fair to have, given they cannot juggle pets or heal pets constantly like druids and cores can to avoid pet death, or rather is it legitimate since it's only a duelist trick and they should excel in dueling environments, or does it still deserve some drawbacks to it since it's still a powerful capability? I haven't seen anyone else address this, so I figured I'd at least see what others think of it.

    The Soulbeast gets a "free" revive because Core Ranger and Druid can just swap pets when their pet is at 10% health and a properly played Ranger can keep their pet from ever dying to anything except maybe to some rogue AoE spam.

    Yes, SB can technically do this too with merging but it comes with drawbacks. For Core Ranger and Druid there's a small delay for the pet running to the target after swapping, but for SB there's an even longer delay of having to merge-unmerge and then the pet running to the target combined with it placing a cooldown on Beastmode, which is then unavailable for utility use (e.g to prevent a lethal blow).

    I'd honestly just prefer the SB and pet to share a health pool instead.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 24 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:
    Before I get into this topic, I want to say this: I am not trying to judge this in relativity to other classes, how ranger stands in the pvp meta, or any other external factors. I don't need a compiled argument on why ranger is in an awkward spot and deserves to have near-abusable mechanics. I'm merely questioning whether or not soulbeast's ability to fully revive their pet every 10 seconds using beastmode is fair or legitimate in comparison to the other ranger specs or in combat against other classes, especially when killing some pets and/or taking even a few key hits from them is quite a pain in the posterior.

    That said, is it intended, fair, or legitimate for soulbeast to be able to revive and/or full reset their pet without any consequences by entering beastmode and then leaving it? As far as I know, there's no cooldown or lockout penalties to at least the more troublesome part of reviving a pet in doing so, such as adding a penalty skill lockout and/or extending the period of time before being able to leave beastmode when merging with a dead pet, or extending the cooldown of re-entering beastmode after merging and unmerging with a dead pet to rally it. I would certainly not argue that killing a soulbeast's pet should bar them from using beastmode until it's revived by other means (that'd be extremely cruel given some pet healthpools and refusal to avoid area spells), but some penalty on the constant ability to revive a dead pet using beastmode to balance the cost other classes pay to kill said pet would seem fair.

    However, that's just my opinion, which I try to balance since I myself am not a ranger main any more: what do you all think of this beastmode revive trick? Is it fair to have, given they cannot juggle pets or heal pets constantly like druids and cores can to avoid pet death, or rather is it legitimate since it's only a duelist trick and they should excel in dueling environments, or does it still deserve some drawbacks to it since it's still a powerful capability? I haven't seen anyone else address this, so I figured I'd at least see what others think of it.

    The Soulbeast gets a "free" revive because Core Ranger and Druid can just swap pets when their pet is at 10% health and a properly played Ranger can keep their pet from ever dying to anything except maybe to some rogue AoE spam.

    Pet swap every 15/20 s is not sufficient to keep pets alive in many situations as core ranger/druid, and once a pet is dead it is nearly impossible to recover without going out of combat due to the huge swap penalty. Dead pets are unfortunately an issue for those specs and not just a matter of the ranger misplaying.

    I'd honestly just prefer the SB and pet to share a health pool instead.

    How is that supposed to work? If the ranger merges with a dead pet he also instantly dies, basically making the spec defenseless the moment the player unmerges? Yea, sounds like a really great idea ...

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    It's fine because their core mechanic is tied up with it (traits and abilities) and the penalty was already applied (restricting them to one pet while in combat). I do think there's a case for lowering the penalty for non soulbeasts (e.g. cutting the lockout by 50% or so).

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Its not fair tbh but its also fine too. Base ranger petswap penalty is way overtuned.
    It would be justified if both would be at 10s and like at 20s if your pet is dead before the swap.

    That would easily be balanced and you would still be punished for not paying attention on your pets health.

  • @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

    i see countless people saying 1v1 balance is irrelevant but at the same time call for ranger nerfs.

    anyways, try dueling a condi herald or any type of renegade and see how long your pet stays alive. even mesmer shatters will end up nuking your pet in 1v1. reaper, necro. pet is completely useless most of the time. and yes ofc i’m talking about with WS, only soulbeast can survive without WS. druid needs it for CA charge and core needs it for condi cleanse.

    i started playing druid again last week cus of nostalgia, and oh boy have i realized how amazing it is not having to worry about pets dying on soulbeast. it’s such a stupid and pointless hazzle constantly having to micromanage your dying and crippled pets. and its not even like enemies are target them deliberately. they just die to aoe and cleave. even when i dodge all the condi and aoe myself my pet just facetanks all of it and dies eventually. in melee its not even like i can avoid it because if my pet is on passive it still follows me. but if its on attack mode it’s on enemy and will still get hit by aoe.

  • @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

    i see countless people saying 1v1 balance is irrelevant but at the same time call for ranger nerfs.

    anyways, try dueling a condi herald or any type of renegade and see how long your pet stays alive. even mesmer shatters will end up nuking your pet in 1v1. reaper, necro. pet is completely useless most of the time. and yes ofc i’m talking about with WS, only soulbeast can survive without WS. druid needs it for CA charge and core needs it for condi cleanse.

    i started playing druid again last week cus of nostalgia, and oh boy have i realized how amazing it is not having to worry about pets dying on soulbeast. it’s such a stupid and pointless hazzle constantly having to micromanage your dying and crippled pets. and its not even like enemies are target them deliberately. they just die to aoe and cleave. even when i dodge all the condi and aoe myself my pet just facetanks all of it and dies eventually. in melee its not even like i can avoid it because if my pet is on passive it still follows me. but if its on attack mode it’s on enemy and will still get hit by aoe.

    Fair enough. I won't lie, the main reason I even discovered this whole thing and started playing soulbeast again to see if it was legitimate was because an evade-heavy condi soulbeast dueled my rather condi-resistant scourge for what must've been 20 minutes straight, and in the process he revived his pet at LEAST 15 times, which was painful as hell given it was a snow owl applying chill and dealing persistent 1-2.5k hits every two seconds it wasn't dead.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

    i see countless people saying 1v1 balance is irrelevant but at the same time call for ranger nerfs.

    anyways, try dueling a condi herald or any type of renegade and see how long your pet stays alive. even mesmer shatters will end up nuking your pet in 1v1. reaper, necro. pet is completely useless most of the time. and yes ofc i’m talking about with WS, only soulbeast can survive without WS. druid needs it for CA charge and core needs it for condi cleanse.

    i started playing druid again last week cus of nostalgia, and oh boy have i realized how amazing it is not having to worry about pets dying on soulbeast. it’s such a stupid and pointless hazzle constantly having to micromanage your dying and crippled pets. and its not even like enemies are target them deliberately. they just die to aoe and cleave. even when i dodge all the condi and aoe myself my pet just facetanks all of it and dies eventually. in melee its not even like i can avoid it because if my pet is on passive it still follows me. but if its on attack mode it’s on enemy and will still get hit by aoe.

    Fair enough. I won't lie, the main reason I even discovered this whole thing and started playing soulbeast again to see if it was legitimate was because an evade-heavy condi soulbeast dueled my rather condi-resistant scourge for what must've been 20 minutes straight, and in the process he revived his pet at LEAST 15 times, which was painful as hell given it was a snow owl applying chill and dealing persistent 1-2.5k hits every two seconds it wasn't dead.

    i can see that being annoying yea. scourge tends to be somewhat countered by soulbeast in general though, i’m not sure the pet was necessarily the main reason for that. but if he revived his pet 15 times, that goes to show how easily it would’ve died on druid or core lol.

  • @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

    i see countless people saying 1v1 balance is irrelevant but at the same time call for ranger nerfs.

    anyways, try dueling a condi herald or any type of renegade and see how long your pet stays alive. even mesmer shatters will end up nuking your pet in 1v1. reaper, necro. pet is completely useless most of the time. and yes ofc i’m talking about with WS, only soulbeast can survive without WS. druid needs it for CA charge and core needs it for condi cleanse.

    i started playing druid again last week cus of nostalgia, and oh boy have i realized how amazing it is not having to worry about pets dying on soulbeast. it’s such a stupid and pointless hazzle constantly having to micromanage your dying and crippled pets. and its not even like enemies are target them deliberately. they just die to aoe and cleave. even when i dodge all the condi and aoe myself my pet just facetanks all of it and dies eventually. in melee its not even like i can avoid it because if my pet is on passive it still follows me. but if its on attack mode it’s on enemy and will still get hit by aoe.

    Fair enough. I won't lie, the main reason I even discovered this whole thing and started playing soulbeast again to see if it was legitimate was because an evade-heavy condi soulbeast dueled my rather condi-resistant scourge for what must've been 20 minutes straight, and in the process he revived his pet at LEAST 15 times, which was painful as hell given it was a snow owl applying chill and dealing persistent 1-2.5k hits every two seconds it wasn't dead.

    i can see that being annoying yea. scourge tends to be somewhat countered by soulbeast in general though, i’m not sure the pet was necessarily the main reason for that. but if he revived his pet 15 times, that goes to show how easily it would’ve died on druid or core lol.

    Ehhhhh, condi soulbeasts are usually less problematic for necromancers than power ones (especially scourges, and especially especially my particular scourge build). This guy wasn't a powerhouse or CC train like the usual soulbeast. Matter of fact the only reason he won was due to his near endless on-demand mobility-escapes, powerful heals from snow owl merge and troll unguent alone, and constant poison to an extent that could rival the constant reapplication of a burnguard's burning. The owl npc itself definitely wasn't the defining factor, but it made up a huge aspect of his mobility and healing in merge and a solid amount of chill-pressure and curveball power damage when unmerged, both of which faced no drawbacks from the owl's usually limiting healthpool due to its endless free revivals.

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:
    We've run out of things to nerf on the ranger to such an absurd degree that people have started asking for the class to no longer have a live pet for more than 10% of the fight

    It needs one of those "invisible dog" leash in place of a pet XD

    🍇🍈🍉🍊🍋🍌🍍🥭🥭🍏🍐🍑🍒🍓🥝🍅🥥🥑🍆🥔🥕🌽🌶️🥒🥬🥦🧄🧅🍄🥜🌰🍞🥐🥖🥨🥯🥞🧇🧀🍖🍗🥩🥓🍔🍟🍕🌭🥪🌮🌯🥙🧆🥚🍳🥘🍲🥣🥗🍿🧈🧂🥫🍱🍘🍙🍚🍛🍜🍝🍠🍢🍣🍤🍥🥮🍡🥟🥠🥡🦪🍦🍧🍨🍩🍪🎂🍰🧁🥧🍫🍬🍭🍮🍯🍼🥛☕🍵🍶🍾🍷🍸🍹🍺🍻🥂🥃🥤🧃🧉🧊_ I copied this from someone because it's cute_
    _

  • Soilder.3607Soilder.3607 Member ✭✭✭

    I would say that in situations where it matters, it is unfair. Sometimes when I am roaming in WvW on my Ranger, I encounter someome who has a lot of AoE and can easily kill my pet. I've been using the Snow Owl as of late and, it being a glassy pet, it hits hard and dies readily. Yet I can revive it every 10 seconds with no consequence and allow it to continue dealing damage. This ability does remove much of the drawbacks that existed prior when using a glassy pet. However, Soulbeast has also lost its ability to pet swap, so the ability to merge and revive their pet seems about the only possible solution to pet death.

    It is also only in a 1v1 where being able to frequently revive the pet is problematic. As has always been, once the number of.opponents scales up, the pet stops being useful in a fight and becomes detrimental instead, typically spending the majority of its time dead. This has consequences other than the obvious loss of damage and utility from the pet.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Since they're limited only to the one pet and there are other drawbacks to this as well which others have mentioned I would have to say yes it is fair.
    If there were more restrictions on this particular thing then I would have to argue that Soulbeasts should get their petswap back to compromise for it.

  • frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭

    Today I was playing in wvw with my thief and downed a soulbest, he was with 1/4 hp of the downed state... Its not that the pet healed him, is that instantly came back to life with 3/4 of his lifepool this is crazy! is this a hack, a trait?? what the hell is this?

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭

    @frareanselm.1925 said:
    Today I was playing in wvw with my thief and downed a soulbest, he was with 1/4 hp of the downed state... Its not that the pet healed him, is that instantly came back to life with 3/4 of his lifepool this is crazy! is this a hack, a trait?? what the hell is this?

    Sounds like he rallied off something (player, guards, some random mobs) or another player used a res skill.

  • Gotejjeken.1267Gotejjeken.1267 Member ✭✭✭

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    well, imagine if mesmer couldn’t use any shatters for 40s if you killed all their clones. or if you reveal thief once, they can’t stealth for 40s. or kill necro minion they can’t use them for 40s.

    AI is ALREADY weak from the get go, useless 90% of the time, and the fact that core and druid are so severely punished for DARING to take on any class with the tiniest amount of aoe or condis is just ridiculous. druid is straight up unviable because it relies on passive pet healing to charge CA, but it’s a legitimate struggle to keep your own pets alive despite the fact that druid is supposed to be a spec that gets extra healing.

    so no, considering magic is a thing in gw2, i don’t think it’s unreasonable in lore terms OR balance terms soulbeasts can revive pets.

    imo, they give core and druid an easier time reviving their pet or keeping them alive. maybe just decrease the cooldown on pet death to 10s, or 5s and call it a day, since we all know anet is too lazy to rework anything these days and we’ll never see anything other than number tweaks.

    I don't disagree that soulbeast has some ground to retain the ability to revive pet in such fashion, but I would never dream of comparing it to mesmer clones or thief stealth. That's just nonsensical. Clones were made to die, and stealth was made to be broken by reveal due to hitting enemies applying reveal onto you. I would not argue rangers are punished for taking on condi classes if they run wilderness survival, that's only an issue if you're purposely giving up defenses for more boonage or damage. WIlderness survival's monopoly on ranger cleanses is a different beast.
    Anywho I totally sympathize with druid, used to main it before they gutted the healing countless times over instead of addressing the actual broken traits that were making it the cheese unkillable sidenode duelist it was. Don't shortsell ranger pets though, they may not be strong in direct combat but in duels they're great for keeping pressure when enemies move behind cover or using their command (or sometimes even normal skills) to really dish out some pain, debilitation, pressure, or control.
    Anyway I'm not saying ranger's top tier but don't act like it's the weakest or most handicapped class in the game (there's not a real correct answer to that but there are many more possibly correct answers and ranger never strikes me as the biggest victim in that category).

    i see countless people saying 1v1 balance is irrelevant but at the same time call for ranger nerfs.

    anyways, try dueling a condi herald or any type of renegade and see how long your pet stays alive. even mesmer shatters will end up nuking your pet in 1v1. reaper, necro. pet is completely useless most of the time. and yes ofc i’m talking about with WS, only soulbeast can survive without WS. druid needs it for CA charge and core needs it for condi cleanse.

    i started playing druid again last week cus of nostalgia, and oh boy have i realized how amazing it is not having to worry about pets dying on soulbeast. it’s such a stupid and pointless hazzle constantly having to micromanage your dying and crippled pets. and its not even like enemies are target them deliberately. they just die to aoe and cleave. even when i dodge all the condi and aoe myself my pet just facetanks all of it and dies eventually. in melee its not even like i can avoid it because if my pet is on passive it still follows me. but if its on attack mode it’s on enemy and will still get hit by aoe.

    Fair enough. I won't lie, the main reason I even discovered this whole thing and started playing soulbeast again to see if it was legitimate was because an evade-heavy condi soulbeast dueled my rather condi-resistant scourge for what must've been 20 minutes straight, and in the process he revived his pet at LEAST 15 times, which was painful as hell given it was a snow owl applying chill and dealing persistent 1-2.5k hits every two seconds it wasn't dead.

    i can see that being annoying yea. scourge tends to be somewhat countered by soulbeast in general though, i’m not sure the pet was necessarily the main reason for that. but if he revived his pet 15 times, that goes to show how easily it would’ve died on druid or core lol.

    Ehhhhh, condi soulbeasts are usually less problematic for necromancers than power ones (especially scourges, and especially especially my particular scourge build). This guy wasn't a powerhouse or CC train like the usual soulbeast. Matter of fact the only reason he won was due to his near endless on-demand mobility-escapes, powerful heals from snow owl merge and troll unguent alone, and constant poison to an extent that could rival the constant reapplication of a burnguard's burning. The owl npc itself definitely wasn't the defining factor, but it made up a huge aspect of his mobility and healing in merge and a solid amount of chill-pressure and curveball power damage when unmerged, both of which faced no drawbacks from the owl's usually limiting healthpool due to its endless free revivals.

    Using this logic though you could say the only reason necros win is the double health pool or shade uptime in the case of scourges. If they win because of a class mechanic, they won.

    Though if you're having a prolonged fight with a SB they probably have built wrong, even putting stock in WS as a SB is playing it too safe as you lose a lot of damage. If you meet a bunker core or druid though at best you are going to stalemate them, at worst they have many more options than your typical SB to use on you.

  • SB already face the drawback of no pet swap, to drop their ICD to merge is an unnecessary nerf, and would make it largely unplayable with birds and tigers. Personally I think this thread is just grief. I think Rangers should actually have the ability to Rez their own pets in combat. Even if you had to sit there and facetank the opponent. Should be faster than a dead player but not so fast that it isn’t still punishment.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021

    @FalsePromises.6398 said:
    Before I get into this topic, I want to say this: I am not trying to judge this in relativity to other classes, how ranger stands in the pvp meta, or any other external factors. I don't need a compiled argument on why ranger is in an awkward spot and deserves to have near-abusable mechanics. I'm merely questioning whether or not soulbeast's ability to fully revive their pet every 10 seconds using beastmode is fair or legitimate in comparison to the other ranger specs or in combat against other classes, especially when killing some pets and/or taking even a few key hits from them is quite a pain in the posterior.

    That said, is it intended, fair, or legitimate for soulbeast to be able to revive and/or full reset their pet without any consequences by entering beastmode and then leaving it? As far as I know, there's no cooldown or lockout penalties to at least the more troublesome part of reviving a pet in doing so, such as adding a penalty skill lockout and/or extending the period of time before being able to leave beastmode when merging with a dead pet, or extending the cooldown of re-entering beastmode after merging and unmerging with a dead pet to rally it. I would certainly not argue that killing a soulbeast's pet should bar them from using beastmode until it's revived by other means (that'd be extremely cruel given some pet healthpools and refusal to avoid area spells), but some penalty on the constant ability to revive a dead pet using beastmode to balance the cost other classes pay to kill said pet would seem fair.

    However, that's just my opinion, which I try to balance since I myself am not a ranger main any more: what do you all think of this beastmode revive trick? Is it fair to have, given they cannot juggle pets or heal pets constantly like druids and cores can to avoid pet death, or rather is it legitimate since it's only a duelist trick and they should excel in dueling environments, or does it still deserve some drawbacks to it since it's still a powerful capability? I haven't seen anyone else address this, so I figured I'd at least see what others think of it.

    It deserves to be able to revive its pet seeing as how Mirages can infinitely revive their clones for IH spam, and Necromancers can generate several minions at alarming cycle rate as well. It would be out of place and dumb and underpowered if a Soulbeast who now cannot swap pets in combat, had a dead pet that it couldn't change if the pet died. If other AI generating classes can infinitely spam their AI, then Ranger should be able to as well.

    You either leave it the way it is now where it revives pet in and out of merge, or you return its ability to swap between pets and make it so merge doesn't instantly revive but does still allow pet death timers to tick.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "Soulbeast Repeatedly Reviving Pet Unconsequentially, Fair?"

    The answer: Yes! Yes! Yes! and again Yes! It is fair! It is not only fair, but it is what it is supposed to be.
    Do you know the sentence of Anet? "It is what was intended to be" :)