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  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm guessing the Marketing Team isn't so unaware that they have not considered Twitch, especially when this very topic has been discussed on the forums before.
    If a content creator wants goodies to give away to their viewers, I'm sure they are welcome to apply to become an ArenaNet Partner (on Twitch) or an Affiliate (on Twitch).

    https://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/partner-program
    https://welcome.guildwars2.com/en/affiliate-program

    So, it seems ArenaNet supports Twitch and its content creators; it has yet to find reason to support Loot Drops, which is what the OP suggested.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

    marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

    again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

    also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

    take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

    Marketing is promoting or selling a product. And this 10yo aging product is already well know, hence the 10,000,000 accounts created since launch. Twitch gimmicks won’t feed this game, it will only help the twitchers. And yes, most content creators are in it for themselves.

    Even if GW2 wasn’t streamed at all, I guarantee that we would still see the same financials and numbers that we do now. Twitch is a negligible contribution to the grand scheme of GW2.

  • Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact. Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Imagine where Among Us would be today without content creators from Twitch and YouTube. Any game would benefit from having more exposure with Twitch being one such place to obtain it.

  • Dondarrion.2748Dondarrion.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheAgedGnome.7520 said:

    > @Malchemist.1620 said:

    Things you could do for twitch prime loot or loot drops:
    -Exclusive twitch only skins that the player can equip, which would then drive more of the player base into twitch, creating a swirl of new eyeballs everywhere..

    'Exclusive' skins that exclude longtime loyal players will almost certainly be a slap in the face to those players.

    The big reason I really think you guys need to branch out on twitch is because I specifically remember streaming one day, going to raid someone and at the very top of the list I saw Summit1g who was trying out GW2 thanks to his community recommending the game.

    I'd be curious what % of the GW2 base ever even uses Twitch. Your view is its a large untapped reservoir of potential players - my view is that Twitch is already a niche audience and so is merely a tiny subset of potential players. Maybe the Twitchophiles are better at being evangelists for games they like than the average player? Maybe.

    You don't know much about modern gaming if you consider Twitch "niche"...

    Nice ideas OP, I've also seen some games let streamers do something called "drops" so by watching gw2 streams you can earn in game drops, and it doesn't have to be anything exclusive/rare but something useful, say, black lion salvage kit, makeover kit, etc. Small tokens of appreciation to player base and ones that will only boost game popularity and hopefully, as consequence, the player base.

    Northerner @ Dragon Season
    Seafarer's Rest since launch!

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact.

    That is however very dependant on the game itself - some games are far better for this purpose than others. This is also a known fact.

    Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.

    It's not about this game being too old. It's about this game population consisting mostly of players that do not watch twitch. And will not watch twitch unless you will start giving them legendaries for that (and often not even then).

    The thing is, twitch aims mostly for 2 groups of viewers.

    One group are those that watch the streamers, not the games those streamers play. Getting that group to watch GW2 streams is not going to help anyone except the streamer. And, if the streamer is popular, it would probably hurt their viewership, which would cause them to move on and take their followers with them.

    Second group are people that play certain types of very specific content - generally competitive ones.
    Those types of content are extremely niche in gw2. They are also not very visually interesting, so they don't lend themselves well to be streamed. And most of players from those modes that could be pulled to twitch are already there.

    Additionally, it so happens that those types of content are not only niche in gw2, but are currently for the most part abandoned by devs. Putting some effort into revitalizing those types of content would do far more for twitch viewership than tossing some freebies and marketing there. That's because increasing twitch viewership by a slight amount for a content that is abandoned is not going to translate into greater player numbers. On the contrary, it's likely to translate into even more bad PR and dissatisfaction.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • @Malchemist.1620 said:
    marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content.

    Does this solve the issue of them ignoring content? You can't make content without money. Getting more devs hired because they make more money quite literally is the solution to bringing content back to PVP.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    Yes. I read about raids and stuff. And that this is popular on Twitch. (And also some something of this exists or existed for GW2.) But you have to keep in mind: The main target audience of GW2 is actually players that do not play PvP and/or raids. Focus should be on the PvE content (story and stuff) then. Especially when new releases happen and maybe when achievements are done.

    Even if the general audience on Twitch might be lower ... the conversion "twitch watcher" -> (turnin into a new) "GW2 player" might still be better in the end. I mean if 10k people watch GW2 some raid stuff and say "cool but I'd still prefer the other games that mainly focus on raiding) and maybe only 10 are starting to play GW2 ... it would be worse then 1k watching PvE content and 50 starting to play GW2. (If less people on Twitch watch PvE content ... but the one that might watch ... are more likely to like the game.)

    I wonder ... did people like Dulfy and AyinMaiden stream? I saw some of the vids on YouTube and Dulfy always had been popular for PvE - for their guides. At least from AyinMaiden it seems her vids on YouTube were cut from some stream.


    Edit: Also Astralporing seems to have hinted at this with his "second group" explanation for Twitch. Maybe a reason why I personally never liked streaming. (Couldn't really get into watching them.) I do not like streamers themselves - too much eccentric some of them. I'd rather play a game instead of watching others playing it. And just watching them is not fun. (Group one.) Also I prefer not the content mentioned as being dominant on Twitch (PvP and raids and stuff) but instead the exploration, JPs and doing achievements and story and stuff.

    I have always prefered classic reviews where someone just explains the core/interesting parts of the game. Instead of playing hours and hours of stuff where I can't really get a good whole impression of the game when it focuses on one aspect while a good review conveys a lot of info in a short amount of time. Have not watched that many reviews - cause reading (text instead of vid) is even faster and more efficient for me. But TotalBiscuit (saw a few of his vids - a shame he died way too early) had great videos.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    Then you clearly do not understand the impact of content creators and streamers to a video game. No matter how old a game is, influencers and creators can breathe new life into things. Its a well known fact. Ignoring that and not doing anything "because the game is too old" is basically saying you'd rather give up on it than see it grow just because its no longer a new shiny. If you truly believe in this game you'd do anything for it.

    First, you assume most gamers don’t know about gw2, or that it’s free to play, that’s why I brought up the age of the game...

    Second, GW2 is almost 10yo and it’s been out long enough for people to know of its existence, but you think twitch and streamers are the holy grail of marketing to bring in players and bring back the millions of players who already started an account that no longer play... wrong.

    Third, this game has major issues. Raid development dropped due to lack of player interest. Wvw is in a black hole with no updates or alliances in years. Spvp has always been a mess and dropped long ago by ESL. Been over a year now since we were told major balance updates would come. Balance update mostly miss the marks and create more issue in wvw and spvp. No mirrored wvw rewards as mentioned. Game engine. Limitations due to engine and old coding. Takes forever and a day to produce an xpac. Certain other poor reputations out in the mmo sphere... but you think free stuff over Twitch will be the bee’s knees of marketing, although Anet is already on twitch regularly, streamers already stream gw2, and the team does giveaways and free stuff all the time... yet it still ranks in the 200 range after all these years and has been the 2nd lowest earner in the NC family. But ignore all the facts thinking free stuff over twitch is where it’s at, compared to substantial things that can be used to market the game in meaningful ways.

    Lastly, you said you were a twitch streamer so have you streamed GW2? Did you apply to be a partner with Anet to help promote the game? Did you host your own GW2 giveaways like other twitchers and youtubers have done over the years? ... and if you haven’t done those things, then why not? I mean if your intention is to grow GW2, as opposed to just wanting free stuff over twitch, don’t you think you should work on being a community leader on twitch for GW2?

  • Malchemist.1620Malchemist.1620 Member ✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    Yes Ayinmaiden streams and I love her content. I also stream alongside her on Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays to do PVE content like raids, fractals, story content, infusion trains and alot more. We stream things as they come out.

    This is not about free loot. Im not sure how many times I have to repeat myself its about marketing. Yall still don't listen to what I have to say and still ignore it and keep throwing out the same arguments every single time I check on this thread.

    -Some marketing is better than no marketing

    -This isn't about free stuff to streamers its about get new people motivated to click the link to try GW2, twitch prime and getting the GW2 higher in the game categories would literally drive more people to watch and get involved. Thats literally how that works.

    -If you go to any MMO youtube content creator who covers GW2 you always see people in the comments asking about Gw2, and the fact that they do not know about it.

    -It is a well known fact by many, people start playing a game by word of mouth and twitch is a PERFECT place for that

    -Your issue of no content for pvp would directly benefit from this move as it will bring in more money, I am not sure why you seem so against it unless you're deliberately trying to be contrary

    Are we gate keeping again? Okay here:

    -I stream GW2 4 days a week. Things from Story, to fractals, to raids, festivals, achievements and any new content.

    -I have applied for partner, and I am currently a GW2 affiliate. I have my own link and have shoutouts on stream to promote gw2 when I can especially when sales happen.

    -I retweet and promote any upcoming events, sales and other things on twitter, discord, and more.

    -I host a biweekly giveaway to promote any upcoming events or content in GW2 by creating a coloring page of said topic so that my community can relax and do something fun and calming. If they can't color, or don't want to, I provide 2 other ways to enter and even have an entry on my stream in case they don't have twitter. I provide a prize for whichever name is drawn randomly, to provide a fair chance to all who get involved.

    -I also host giveaways on live streams when I can provide them to my community almost every day.

    -I have a discord where all gw2 news is posted, dialogue is had about the game and is where I post all giveaways and news.

    -I run a 9 year old guild that started PRE Beta for GW2, and I do my best to run events and get people involved.

    -I also help with a charity group that is based in Guild Wars 2, gamersgivingback, and im the art manager for the team. We do charity events inside Guild Wars 2 throughout the year, and also a stream team event where we fundraise for charities like the Canadian Cancer Society, Multiple Sclerosis Society of Canada, Rainbow Road, and our stream team raises money for World Child Cancer. We do giveaways and prizes throughout these events to promote the event and GW2.

    'I am also a commander and partner with the TP Overflow Guild, where I run infusion trains and METAs twice a week, and lead trains for them and a sister guild of TP.

    -We are also about to start a raid training group for our community and the GW2 community, and getting other GW2 streamers involved.

    Lastly:
    -I love Guild Wars 2. I want it to succeed.

    -I stream, and know the inner workings of content creation because I'm in it. I've been streaming for Guild Wars 2 for 2.5 years, played it since BETA

    -I do giveaways out of my own pocket, and have no monetary gain from doing so.

    -I create coloring pages that take time and effort to draw, but get no return for it because I can't, but that doesn't stop me from posting a new one. The coloring page event is now 1.5 years old.

    -I do not want more free stuff to giveaway. I want a concerted effort to bring in more people and to grow the game further than what it is now.

    Please don't assume that everyone is in it for their own gain. That is far from the truth.

  • Redfeather.6401Redfeather.6401 Member ✭✭✭

    Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

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  • @Swagger.1459 said:
    You keep repeating “Some marketing is better than no marketing”, but Anet already does market the game......

    I never said they don't market. I am referring to marketing on twitch. That is what this convo is about.

  • @Redfeather.6401 said:
    Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

    Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's not like ArenaNet is unaware of Twitch loot drops.
    This isn't the first thread about them.

    Perhaps, those in the know have decided against it; or, they prefer their current Twitch investments. Dunno. /shrug

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Malchemist.1620 said:

    @Redfeather.6401 said:
    Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

    Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

    Yes, YOUR end game goal is more views, and the more popular a game is your viewership goes up. YOU benefit more directly from that. Views don’t mean paying customers, and I guarantee the trickledown from viewer to paying customer is negligible.

    Meanwhile, the end goal of Anet and NC soft isn’t twitch eyeballs, it’s $$$ on their monthly financial reports. And that’s achieved by fixing the game, following through on years old words and promises, updating professions more frequently, balancing professions more frequently, not burning bridges with players, putting out substantial updates and Xpacs in more timely manners... Those are marketable, generate web words of mouth, and translate to $$$... and it’s those things that indirectly increase twitch views at the end of the day. Not the other way around.

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:

    @Redfeather.6401 said:
    Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

    Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

    Yes, YOUR end game goal is more views, and the more popular a game is your viewership goes up. YOU benefit more directly from that. Views don’t mean paying customers, and I guarantee the trickledown from viewer to paying customer is negligible.

    Meanwhile, the end goal of Anet and NC soft isn’t twitch eyeballs, it’s $$$ on their monthly financial reports. And that’s achieved by fixing the game, following through on years old words and promises, updating professions more frequently, balancing professions more frequently, not burning bridges with players, putting out substantial updates and Xpacs in more timely manners... Those are marketable, generate web words of mouth, and translate to $$$... and it’s those things that indirectly increase twitch views at the end of the day. Not the other way around.

    Then tell me how they should fix that?

    If your answer is "put in more work" or "just get it done" developers need what to survive? What do they need to work on those things? How are anet able to bring on more employees?

    Money.

    They have an income and that is why we get updates. Its why the game is still here. But you know how they get more done? Market more. Do more on twitch. Get more eyeballs to the game website and get more people to play.

    Then and only then can they put the devs who are working on the current game and keeping us entertained to other areas, like alliances, or new pvp maps or changes that will bring the very thing you want.

    These changes do not happen without money. They do not happen because the playerbase tells them to do it. The devs have to live and eat and work and they have to be paid.

    I did not make this post to benefit me. I did not make this post for clout. I did not make this post to get free stuff, and I did not make this post for any gain whatsoever.

    I made this post so that I can voice my opinion and the opinion of the many content creators I play with, some of who have marketing degrees, so that I can try and give some feedback to the devs because I love them, and I love the game and its community and I want it to prosper.

    There was no intention even a little bit that this was to promote me or anyone else, and that is why I never even included any links to any of my sites because that isn't why I'm here.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lord Trejgon.2809 said:
    Did everyone forgot that time when they gave away purple glowy eyes for linking with twitch account?

    Precedence is out there ;)

    Sure it is. And if that trail yielded postive results, I'm thinking they would have done it again. But if they didn't see results from that, they might not be so fast to waste time and energy doing it. My guess is, they tried it, it didn't work and they moved on. I could be wrong of course, but I don't see why they wouldn't do it again if it worked.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

    marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

    again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

    also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

    take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

    I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

  • Malchemist.1620Malchemist.1620 Member ✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

    marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

    again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

    also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

    take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

    I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

    This is true word of mouth works, but thats like the soul of twitch :) I misspoke with that, didn't mean that they don't market, they just don't market on twitch. I think that may have gotten lost in my post though and I apologize.

    If they can find another way to market thats great, this was just a post to provide an opinion on why I think twitch is a good option :)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malchemist.1620 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    so tell me then, would you rather they do nothing on twitch? nothing for marketing?

    marketing means bringing people into the game. people lead to money spent on the game, money spent on the game leads to higher profits, higher profits means more money going into developing the game we all love, and hiring more people to make more content. content doesnt just grow on trees.

    again and i will continue to repeat myself, this isnt about the individual streamers, but about the collective that will generate more influx into gw2. these actions will lead to that.

    also the thought that twitch streamers are deplorable or are in it for their own gain is far from the truth especially when it comes to this community. there are many wonderful content creators that i have had the pleasure of meeting and befriending. Try joining in on some of those communities because it is fun and welcoming.

    take some time and think about my post. I just want what is best for GW2. Marketing to something is better than marketing to nothing.

    I think there are ways to advertise this game that don't involve twitch that I'd prefer. You say they're doing nothing but it's not the case. I'm getting ads when I go to various sites. They even put up giant billboards in cities a year or two ago. But this game has really always worked on word of mouth.

    This is true word of mouth works, but thats like the soul of twitch :) I misspoke with that, didn't mean that they don't market, they just don't market on twitch. I think that may have gotten lost in my post though and I apologize.

    If they can find another way to market thats great, this was just a post to provide an opinion on why I think twitch is a good option :)

    Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon (actually there's no maybe about it lol), but I'd rather not see a bunch of twitch viewers rocking up in here. I've sat and watched twitch chat during promotions and streams and I find that as a whole it's just disruptive bordering on rude. Again it might be a generational thing, but there's are people who'd make this community better and people who'd make this community less welcoming and friendly. It happened a bit when the game went free to play.

    At the end of the day, I'd rather have more people who are community minded and less people who are disruptive. Again, I could be completely wrong. But Twitch is filled with people who are essentially there to watch a train wreck. I'm not sure how healthy it would be for the game.

  • Malchemist.1620Malchemist.1620 Member ✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    It depends on the streamer and yeah there are a good bit of negative/rude people, it kinda goes with any community. But in communities that I've been apart of or have seen they are super supportive, down to earth and I love coming into those chats. Like I said its dependent on how the streamer deals with things.

    Guild Wars 2 fostered a great community, and I don't think a few bad apples coming in will ruin that, I think more than likely new players will find something they like, and grow into the game like we all have :)

  • I think that the general view is different.
    They can use their main Gw2 twitch channel for that but it will only attract existing or returning players not new.
    Those big big channels are big because of the streamer not the game they are playing.
    If someone small will play and has a giveaway will be only his regular viewers, the rest of the world wouldnt know.

    The problem with Gw2 is that the game doesnt have new players, for new people its not attractive, its an old 2012 game with not updated graphics. People can agree or disagree but that's the truth that a new player see.
    Postponing Steam release for the new expansion...bad idea, good for the already players but that wont increase the numbers of new players, the visibility of being in Steam and release the new expansion there, could attract many people.

    Uploading videos to youtube is the best way to catch people and re direct them to a twitch channel as youtube videos many times are randomly recommended or associated to another mmo.

    What its for sure is that Anet needs money to continue in the business and they need to invest on marketing, improve their engine and create something new if they want to grow as a company.

  • Caldori.7251Caldori.7251 Member ✭✭

    just to through my two cents in here, i discovered GW2 by getting a Mukluk stream vod recommended in my youtube home page. if not for his twitch stream they would not have sold both expansions(Ultimate ed.) and 100USD in gems. banner ads and email blasts are a fart in the wind compared to happening accross a person showing you why their game is amazing. and i do think it is amazing... so much that i quit my 13 year old account in WoW because Muk showed me how fun the game could be. if he hadn't showed me i would not have made it past lv 10. This can go for any streamer as well.

  • Caldori.7251Caldori.7251 Member ✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:

    @Redfeather.6401 said:
    Two of the games I play do twitch drops and whenever drops are enabled it is quite a boost to viewers and that gets streams noticed by people who don't know what the game is like.

    Exactly :) thank you for this and I agree completely. More eyeballs on the game is the end goal and getting gw2 up there on top categories will only help <3

    Yes, YOUR end game goal is more views, and the more popular a game is your viewership goes up. YOU benefit more directly from that. Views don’t mean paying customers, and I guarantee the trickledown from viewer to paying customer is negligible.

    Meanwhile, the end goal of Anet and NC soft isn’t twitch eyeballs, it’s $$$ on their monthly financial reports. And that’s achieved by fixing the game, following through on years old words and promises, updating professions more frequently, balancing professions more frequently, not burning bridges with players, putting out substantial updates and Xpacs in more timely manners... Those are marketable, generate web words of mouth, and translate to $$$... and it’s those things that indirectly increase twitch views at the end of the day. Not the other way around.

    there is a problem in your line of thinking though... while the dev team is making new content and the qa team is dealing with bugs what is the marketing team doing? how are they getting the word out about all the fantastic work that the devs are doing? when there is a really good balance patch that everyone really likes and it will bring people into the game as you say do they just send out an email blast that say ok GW2 is better come on in? how do you spread word of mouth? well i can tell you a pretty cost effective way to do it... pay a streamer in made up digital currency to do the work for you and then they get to make money as well. as illustrated in the 7 habits of highly effective people... the best deal is a Win-Win deal. arena net gets very cost effective advertising and the streamer gets followers. you would have the streamer have a harder time growing and arena net make all the money. this deal is good for arena net but takes way longer to happen and during that time arena net incurs an opportunity cost of not have a steady influx of users to supply capitol to fund the fixing and development that will make them more money.

    Twitch is not the be all end all, and i barely use it myself but i can tell you i would rather give my money to an awesome dev team and a funny twitch/youtube content creator then have that ad money end up spent on google ad space.

  • There are new players everywhere. I am not sure where you are coming from when you say there are not any in the game right now. Not only do I see new players out in the world, but they come into my chat, and others chats to ask questions and get build suggestions. Its a real thing and I also make an effort to raid new players that are streaming just to give them a welcome to the game, and support them and help them feel like they are one of us.

    Yes I completely agree with the content creators bringing in new eyes. Especially youtube creators. It has a much larger discoverability and they can then find that persons live stream and get involved in their chat. Its something I see at least once or twice a night. Streamer then engages that person, welcomes them in and talks to them, you've basically helped solidify why they should try it out.

    Then when they get in they have almost 9 years of content at their finger tips. Just because we are all veterans doesn't mean that just because we have very little to do, that they won't. They will see it like we did at first, bright eyed and bushy tailed and ready to dive into the content. :)

  • Buran.3796Buran.3796 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuronca.4138 said:

    Those big big channels are big because of the streamer not the game they are playing.
    If someone small will play and has a giveaway will be only his regular viewers, the rest of the world wouldnt know.

    The problem with Gw2 is that the game doesnt have new players, for new people its not attractive, its an old 2012 game with not updated graphics. People can agree or disagree but that's the truth that a new player see.
    Postponing Steam release for the new expansion...bad idea, good for the already players but that wont increase the numbers of new players, the visibility of being in Steam and release the new expansion there, could attract many people.

    Uploading videos to youtube is the best way to catch people and re direct them to a twitch channel as youtube videos many times are randomly recommended or associated to another mmo.

    What its for sure is that Anet needs money to continue in the business and they need to invest on marketing, improve their engine and create something new if they want to grow as a company.

    The most popular games in Twich have a thing in common: they all have high support, which means that the developers release a large amount of patches along the year, at a very fast pace. And is not a surprise, because most of the ones which fill the top 30 are competitive games, which require balancing and frequent changes to keep the things interesting. Yeah, exactly as GW2 (specially WvW/PvP). S/

    By the way, you can't "improve the engine". Sure you can enhance the art (and they recent maps are beautiful, for sure) add some effects and polish the finish, but GW2 engine is a Direct X 9? with no multicore support and that will last forever, because changing that would require re-making the game from 0. Is the same as Bethesda which keeps running the same outdated Embryo Engine since forever just changing a bit the aesthetics because thet's the engine in which they made Oblivion and changing it would force them to re-learn how to program all their complex side-quest from 0. That's why most of RPG/MMO developers stay with the same engines for decades.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @Malchemist.1620

    “ They have an income and that is why we get updates. Its why the game is still here. But you know how they get more done? Market more. Do more on twitch. Get more eyeballs to the game website and get more people to play.

    Then and only then can they put the devs who are working on the current game and keeping us entertained to other areas, like alliances, or new pvp maps or changes that will bring the very thing you want.”

    Sorry, no. That’s not reality.

    You invest in, update, fix, and improve your product, then market your product, then collect extra money and repeat the process. It’s not throw tons of money at marketing an aging product with unaddressed major issues hoping you get enough money to invest in, update, fix, and improve your product.

    You figure out why 9,000,000+ account holders don’t use your product anymore, not shovel money into the marketing abyss hoping to get a couple of players...

    And Twitch and twitchers are not the marketing saviors of this game like you are making it out to be. You are failing to see the strength of reinvesting in a product and player retention. You are solely focused on marketing schemes involving throwing away money and time on twitch and twitchers thinking it’s some magic bullet of marketing for gw2. It’s not.

    And there isn’t a magic bullet. It’s called reinvest in your product then market the product to generate buzz and positive word of mouth... That feeds your twitchers at the end of the day. It’s not the other way around.

    Edit- And again for clarity.

    The equation is not shovel money into marketing with hopes of getting enough money to update, improve, and fix your product.

    You update, improve, and fix your product, then market those updates, improvements, and fixes to your product.

  • Inculpatus cedo.9234Inculpatus cedo.9234 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There's only so much money in the Marketing budget.
    What should they stop doing to put more into Twitch, like Loot Drops?
    Stop giving Gems to Twitch and YouTube content creators for giveaways?
    Stop advertising the Art Show on Twitch?
    Stop supporting/advertising player-run events?
    Stop promotions/contests/give-aways?

    Maybe, this time, the powers that be (could be NCSoft) will decide that this is a good idea; they haven't when it's been brought up in the past.

    Good luck on the suggestion; at least, this time, there was some acknowledgement!

  • Redfeather.6401Redfeather.6401 Member ✭✭✭

    So one of the games I play is doing a twitch drop campaign this weekend. If you watch participating streams for an hour total you get a crate per day. The amount of streamers they got for this game now is way more than usual. Way more. I think it really works.

    Click on your name up top. Click the little icon with the down arrow for preferences. Click Signature Settings to the right.

  • Nilkemia.8507Nilkemia.8507 Member ✭✭✭

    Seems to me that ArenaNet has already been doing something along the lines of what the OP is suggesting, or has at least tried. If it was going to make a serious impact, it'd have done so by now.

    @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:
    There's only so much money in the Marketing budget.
    What should they stop doing to put more into Twitch, like Loot Drops?
    Stop giving Gems to Twitch and YouTube content creators for giveaways?
    Stop advertising the Art Show on Twitch?
    Stop supporting/advertising player-run events?
    Stop promotions/contests/give-aways?

    More or less this...although, there are other problems with Twitch as well. After all, not too long ago, there was this, among other things. There's a reason "Twitch thot" is a term.

    So, I know this'll make me seem like a bunghole, and I probably am being one.... but no. No, no, no. Let's try making the game better or fixing it up so people will come and stick around. They already tried Twitch. They do it on Youtube as well, at least the Living World trailers. Maybe they could try Odysee too?

  • Thanks all for the feedback. This was just a suggestion. <3

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @Malchemist.1620 said:
    Twitch is a massive marketing tool that has a plethora of new customers to bring in. Content creators are also a huge way to bring those people in as they may have people watching them that dont play GW2. a common misconception of streamers is that people watch streams for the game, and while that is somewhat true, most people watch streamers for the streamer/content creator.

    I think the one thing that it may have gotten lost in the post is that this isn't all about loot drops, but just getting eyeballs to look towards the prime loot screen is a huge thing on twitch. everyone sees loot there, like for instance I see loot all the time for games like GTA5, Fall Guys, indie games of all types and more. the more people see those notifications the more likely they are to click on the advertisement and redeem the prize you get from it.

    It may also get older players who haven't logged into the game in awhile to come back to redeem the skin, and then see oh hey stuff has been added/changed maybe i should check that out.

    as for loot drops, its a good way to bring in existing/new/incoming players to content creators that can find a community to join, have questions answered, and get referral links to the game if they decide to buy. I personally know a ton of people who look for streamers/content creators who are playing games they are looking into to watch how the game is in real time.

    its a sound decision all around, no matter if some go to twitch or not. but with millions of eyes, you're bound to get a few to try the game out and thats the goal here. :)

    Yes, it’s a massive market and GW2 ranks in the 200 viewership rank range. New players come and go all the time, with 10,000,000+ accounts created since launch, but with a fraction of that number for actual players and monthly concurrency numbers.

    The devs already do stuff on twitch and some marketing campaign with free stuff won’t make this game, that’s been around for almost 10 years, more popular. And the devs have given out a bunch of free stuff over the years already, so more free stuff won’t do jack for the bottom line.

    A more sound decision would have been to release xpacs more frequently and address some of the games very big shortcomings. And twitch is meaningless to that equation. Word of mouth, or in this case words on the web, carry more weight than free stuff on twitch.

    Now don’t get me wrong, I spent many years and a lot of $ on this game, but twitch stuff carries far less meaning and weight compared to updates and improvements to the game, along with a few other really important areas that gamers really care about.

    And out of curiosity, how long have you played gw2? Do you own the 2 xpacs? How much $ have you spent on this game?

    Im a beta veteran who has played with no breaks in the game and have spent thousands on the game. Im scared to know that number honestly lol

    I have both expacs and at max mastery. I've been here for awhile.

    The end goal is to get more new players to try the game. And this is a smart way to do so.

    Anet gives free stuff already and this is where we are at almost 10 years later, so why is it “a smart way to do so”?

    GW2 has some great elements, but the reputation isn’t stellar in the mmo sphere, so how important is a free X compared to, let’s say, a substantial update?

    Because half the time they are done through niche markets and the other half of the time they are region locked, twitch is massive, simple and accessible and it can work well for any game related marketing move.