Lightning Rod gets the Impacting Disruption Treatment when? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Lightning Rod gets the Impacting Disruption Treatment when?

SteepledHat.1345SteepledHat.1345 Member ✭✭✭

Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

<13

Comments

  • I'm fine with nerf or even full rework.
    "Lightning Rod": If enemy is struck by CC skill, remove all stability stacks from him and apply debuff called "Lightining Punishiment"(unique debuff, can't cleanse) for 5s.(10~15s icd. the question, should it be AoE or only single-target)
    "Lightning Punishment": Deal x damage if enemy tries to apply stability to himself and also remove that stability.
    Or something...
    Need more IQ plays in the game one way or another...

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    You see, the problem with thief is that it's thief. So it does not get to do damage with interrupts. Neither does something like hammer warrior, with 1 skill on their entire bar that actually hits for something. And to be consistent with the above, elementalist CC skills retained their damage, and can also trait to double/triple said damage with LR.

    Don't we just love consistency.

    Also fear necro.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    should be in interrupt :) and not be able to crit :) and have bugged 3s cd :)

    It was on interrupt...like 7 years ago? But then the devs realized ele didn't have anything like https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Bullet or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Power_Lock ....that almost insta cast at 1200 range is surely juicy...

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why cutting lr even more, I want not even less dmg

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Instead of making LR unusable like PI, I'd rather they just buff PI to be usable again. Something like fixing the bug that causes it to scale with a 0.3 coefficient instead of the intended 0.75 coefficient, then increasing the coefficient to a true 2.0 coefficient would be a decent start. If thats not enough, maybe slightly lower the delay.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Instead of making LR unusable like PI, I'd rather they just buff PI to be usable again. Something like fixing the bug that causes it to scale with a 0.3 coefficient instead of the intended 0.75 coefficient, then increasing the coefficient to a true 2.0 coefficient would be a decent start. If thats not enough, maybe slightly lower the delay.

    Sure! We increase headshot initiative to 8 from 4 and add a 3/4s cast time...there you can have your dmg back

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • SteepledHat.1345SteepledHat.1345 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    You see, the problem with thief is that it's thief. So it does not get to do damage with interrupts. Neither does something like hammer warrior, with 1 skill on their entire bar that actually hits for something. And to be consistent with the above, elementalist CC skills retained their damage, and can also trait to double/triple said damage with LR.

    Hmm, what class does the revered CmC play? Just wondering?

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief Mains: "Why are you bringing up other class's underpowered traits in a thread about thief. We should be encouraging positive changes for all classes!"

    Also Thief Mains: "Our trait sucks, so we should nerf your already underperforming build more... For consistency sake :)"

    Ah... I love the forums.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Thief Mains: "Why are you bringing up other class's underpowered traits in a thread about thief. We should be encouraging positive changes for all classes!"

    Also Thief Mains: "Our trait sucks, so we should nerf your already underperforming build more... For consistency sake :)"

    Ah... I love the forums.

    yes, keep calm and buff sb5 cuz it bugs sometimes.
    But in all honesty they could give ICD to LR... to the weakness part. fighting glass weaver as another glass power build feels like rolling dice and it sucks.
    is this maul 2k? is it 8k? we are about to find out on the next episode of permanent weakness uptime.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Thief Mains: "Why are you bringing up other class's underpowered traits in a thread about thief. We should be encouraging positive changes for all classes!"

    Also Thief Mains: "Our trait sucks, so we should nerf your already underperforming build more... For consistency sake :)"

    Ah... I love the forums.

    yes, keep calm and buff sb5 cuz it bugs sometimes.
    But in all honesty they could give ICD to LR... to the weakness part. fighting glass weaver as another glass power build feels like rolling dice and it sucks.
    is this maul 2k? is it 8k? we are about to find out on the next episode of permanent weakness uptime.

    To be fair, even a 2k maul is going to sting when you have 13k hp. And an 8k maul is ~75% of it The weakness makes the build playable when getting into melee range with other power builds. Especially ranger who can 100-0 you with maul > hiltbash > maul. The build is underperforming for a good reason.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    It's hitting up to 2K without any mightstacks if you're trolling around on a berserker amulet. So if you land a CC like
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Katabatic_Wind
    you deal 5K+ damage just for CC-ing someone. Not actually interrupting, just for landing CC. And thats why I hate this. At the very least change the damage to interrupt only. Currently it enables a degenerate playstyle of CC-spamming someone to death.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    "Physical. Cause a rupture that deals massive damage when this skill ends."

    Damage done: about 300. :smirk:

    I would like to see Lightning Rod it "only on interrupt" or something like that, yeah. It is too spammy now.
    PI was problematic because you could, well, spam near instant interrupts. It was overnerfed though, there should be some buff (not necessarily damage though).

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    It's hitting up to 2K without any mightstacks if you're trolling around on a berserker amulet. So if you land a CC like
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Katabatic_Wind
    you deal 5K+ damage just for CC-ing someone. Not actually interrupting, just for landing CC. And thats why I hate this. At the very least change the damage to interrupt only. Currently it enables a degenerate playstyle of CC-spamming someone to death.

    Trolling around with golems or in the open arena is the best you can do with a berseker amulet...unless we see a video of you playing berseker dagger weaver against anything with a brain between the ears and I don't remember this community not calling "degenerate" anything remotely threatening on ele, be it FA...be it fire ele...be it LR.

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    Its a 1.0 scaling that can crit. Its not insane, but its not negligable. PIs 300-500 damage is negligable.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    It's hitting up to 2K without any mightstacks if you're trolling around on a berserker amulet. So if you land a CC like
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Katabatic_Wind
    you deal 5K+ damage just for CC-ing someone. Not actually interrupting, just for landing CC. And thats why I hate this. At the very least change the damage to interrupt only. Currently it enables a degenerate playstyle of CC-spamming someone to death.

    Trolling around with golems or in the open arena is the best you can do with a berseker amulet...unless we see a video of you playing berseker dagger weaver against anything with a brain between the ears and I don't remember this community not calling "degenerate" anything remotely threatening on ele, be it FA...be it fire ele...be it LR.

    A video will hardly prove anything. I could just fake the duels with a friend, or edit out my fails etc.

    My main problem is not balance, it's design. The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game, it should have been reworked into something else 14 months ago.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 22, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game

    CMC covered this in a video/interview

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭

    ele doesnt get to do damage pack it up boys, we gotta go home, fresh air is next

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Nope, because that never happened. I mean, remember, during HoT thief was just straight up not good period, and then people started playing even more generally tanky.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @SteepledHat.1345 said:
    Let's see a 3 sec cd? Thoughts on this idea?

    Let's see...:

    1)We move Lightning rod to Master Tier from Grand Master
    2)We add unblockable trait
    3)We reduce the CD of gale and comet to something as spammable as https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Head_Shot from 900 range
    4)We remove cast time/animation from all interrupt skills on ele....just like head shot
    5)We bring back the shocking aura on disable

    PS did they "fix" that anomaly that allow Pulmonary impact to go through stability?

    Did I forget anything?

    Yes. Disabling crit and reducing base damage by about 66% on Lightning Rod. Oh and making all those interrupt and stun skills into 0.25 second dazes instead of 3 second knockdowns or stuns. And likewise for shocking Aura. Oh and making it so if you use any of them, you disable your other skills for 5 seconds.

    Even with a 3 second cooldown, to say that Lightning Rod is vastly superior to Pulmonary Impact is an understatement. Lightning Rod would still be a good trait. Pulmonary Impact is still an unusable trait.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Rod_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    It already does negligible dmg...and that's not reason you pogchamps keep dieing..but whatever you want to believe, you'd die regardless if using LR or not ...the trait has already been nerfed 3 times now ...4 if we include the removal or shocking aura on disable, overall LR weaver already doesn't work at ToP for obvious reasons and at the level it does work......well...at that level even a core ele would work amazingly

    It's hitting up to 2K without any mightstacks if you're trolling around on a berserker amulet. So if you land a CC like
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Katabatic_Wind
    you deal 5K+ damage just for CC-ing someone. Not actually interrupting, just for landing CC. And thats why I hate this. At the very least change the damage to interrupt only. Currently it enables a degenerate playstyle of CC-spamming someone to death.

    Trolling around with golems or in the open arena is the best you can do with a berseker amulet...unless we see a video of you playing berseker dagger weaver against anything with a brain between the ears and I don't remember this community not calling "degenerate" anything remotely threatening on ele, be it FA...be it fire ele...be it LR.

    A video will hardly prove anything. I could just fake the duels with a friend, or edit out my fails etc.

    My main problem is not balance, it's design. The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game, it should have been reworked into something else 14 months ago.

    Yeah, everyone here totally has faith in Anet reworking this grandmaster trait to something useful while making the mage class actually keep any sort of semi-decent damage somehow. Look at those 300 cd passive defense procs and how they were reworked. It all turned out awesome didn't it? The only thing that nerfing LR would accomplish is make damage ele absolutely unusable once again, like it has been for the majority of this game's life. The squishy mage class having zero damage has been one of the biggest jokes in GW2 since the start.

  • Hi there. WvW player here, so maybe I'm out of my depth, but I fail to see how lightning rod can pose such a threat. I don't even run it on my build when I run air, mostly because the ferocity and damage availability of fresh air is awesome. I mean, to make a comparison, look at the base damage of weaver's other skills:

    Lightning Rod: 253
    Flame Uprising: 916 with all ticks
    Cauterizing Strike: 587
    Quantum Strike: 773
    Earthen Vortex: 458
    Twin Strike: 550
    Pyro Vortex: 1,335
    Lava Skin: 484
    Shearing Edge: 367
    Natural Frenzy: 864

    So even if they do plink away for 253 every time they use Polaric Leap, that is hardly going to be a prime source of damage. Personally my big hitter is going form Fire/Earth and doing this:

    Lava Skin -> Flame Uprising -> Earthquake (swap to air) -> Pyro Vortex while stunned (swap to air) -> Quantum Strike -> Ride the Lightning

    With 3,728 base damage before stats and modifiers, I'll bake an enemy cake out of you with this. Running Lightning Rod would remove 16.7% crit damage, 8 vulnerability, and Quantum Strike + Ride the Lightning in exchange for 253 damage on Earthquake and an optional Polaric Leap. It's not an even trade.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game

    CMC covered this in a video/interview

    Source? I'm interested in his reasons.

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    Hi there. WvW player here, so maybe I'm out of my depth, but I fail to see how lightning rod can pose such a threat. I don't even run it on my build when I run air, mostly because the ferocity and damage availability of fresh air is awesome. I mean, to make a comparison, look at the base damage of weaver's other skills:

    Lightning Rod: 253
    Flame Uprising: 916 with all ticks
    Cauterizing Strike: 587
    Quantum Strike: 773
    Earthen Vortex: 458
    Twin Strike: 550
    Pyro Vortex: 1,335
    Lava Skin: 484
    Shearing Edge: 367
    Natural Frenzy: 864

    So even if they do plink away for 253 every time they use Polaric Leap, that is hardly going to be a prime source of damage. Personally my big hitter is going form Fire/Earth and doing this:

    Lava Skin -> Flame Uprising -> Earthquake (swap to air) -> Pyro Vortex while stunned (swap to air) -> Quantum Strike -> Ride the Lightning

    With 3,728 base damage before stats and modifiers, I'll bake an enemy cake out of you with this. Running Lightning Rod would remove 16.7% crit damage, 8 vulnerability, and Quantum Strike + Ride the Lightning in exchange for 253 damage on Earthquake and an optional Polaric Leap. It's not an even trade.

    WvW is an unbalanced mess, you get to do PvE numbers in there 90% of the time. In PvP damage is toned down, and the combo you described is just not something most players would get hit by. If I was up against you as an LR ele for example, I'd just interrupt said combo with one of my many readily available CC-s at Flame Uprising. And from that point on it doesn't matter that you can land 15-20K damage combos on short cooldowns, because my 4-5K damage CC-s would ruin those.
    If you pop cooldowns to block or cover with stability, I just hang back for a few seconds, then jump back into your face and keep spamming my interrupts.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    When ele stealths and ports around like a b

  • Any semi descent player in PvP has tools to deal with stun (Earthquake). You better bait the enemy player countering an incoming burst and keep it for later. A rotation of 6 skills + weapon swap has almost no chance to land in full and in the contrary will make you predictable.

  • Or just you know...change the actual mechanic to something else.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    how about we undo all the instant damage nerfs like shattered aegis, power block, and static discharge. maybe keep impacting disruption a non crit but up the base damage.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭✭

    U want to nerf dead class. Nice.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich) utilities spells ?

    by glory you mean thief running at you spamming auto-attack and mindlessly interrupt any attempt to do anything even cast auto-attack?

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich) utilities spells ?

    by glory you mean thief running at you spamming auto-attack and mindlessly interrupt any attempt to do anything even cast auto-attack?

    Ah , didn't remembered that could trigger on auto attack :(

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    That's what thieves are crying about to get back......

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    ICDs are the wrong way to go. Always.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game

    CMC covered this in a video/interview

    Source? I'm interested in his reasons.

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    Hi there. WvW player here, so maybe I'm out of my depth, but I fail to see how lightning rod can pose such a threat. I don't even run it on my build when I run air, mostly because the ferocity and damage availability of fresh air is awesome. I mean, to make a comparison, look at the base damage of weaver's other skills:

    Lightning Rod: 253
    Flame Uprising: 916 with all ticks
    Cauterizing Strike: 587
    Quantum Strike: 773
    Earthen Vortex: 458
    Twin Strike: 550
    Pyro Vortex: 1,335
    Lava Skin: 484
    Shearing Edge: 367
    Natural Frenzy: 864

    So even if they do plink away for 253 every time they use Polaric Leap, that is hardly going to be a prime source of damage. Personally my big hitter is going form Fire/Earth and doing this:

    Lava Skin -> Flame Uprising -> Earthquake (swap to air) -> Pyro Vortex while stunned (swap to air) -> Quantum Strike -> Ride the Lightning

    With 3,728 base damage before stats and modifiers, I'll bake an enemy cake out of you with this. Running Lightning Rod would remove 16.7% crit damage, 8 vulnerability, and Quantum Strike + Ride the Lightning in exchange for 253 damage on Earthquake and an optional Polaric Leap. It's not an even trade.

    WvW is an unbalanced mess, you get to do PvE numbers in there 90% of the time. In PvP damage is toned down, and the combo you described is just not something most players would get hit by. If I was up against you as an LR ele for example, I'd just interrupt said combo with one of my many readily available CC-s at Flame Uprising. And from that point on it doesn't matter that you can land 15-20K damage combos on short cooldowns, because my 4-5K damage CC-s would ruin those.
    If you pop cooldowns to block or cover with stability, I just hang back for a few seconds, then jump back into your face and keep spamming my interrupts.

    Don't get too lost in the details. I react to what my opponent does, just like everyone else. The point is that Lightning Rod isn't overpowering, especially when Ele launches attacks three times stronger than that with regular consistency. That 0.95 modifier is a bit deceptive: the skill uses unarmed weapon strength (690.5) for its strikes. That's why its listed damage is so low.

    It took a bit, but I think I figured out what you're talking about. I was confused, because if you're hitting for 5k on lightning Rod, then it would mean that you were hitting for 15k with Quantum Strike and 18k with Natural Frenzy. Complaining about lightning rod at that point would be straining at the gnat while swallowing the camel. Turns out, you're talking about a very specific skill (Katabatic Wind). That one, alongside of Pile Driver, are exceptions to the rule that CC doesn't do damage. I'm sure Pile Driver is intended because it is on staff, but I'm not sure how Katabatic Wind managed to squeeze by the balance patch. It isn't good to base balance around the exception, though. If Katabatic Wind proves to be such a problem when combined with LR, I'd rather put it in line with other CCs before obliterating LR.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'll say bump up the base damage and remove the ability to crit, then put more damage elsewhere.
    It's an auxiliary damage source, but it shouldn't contribute to 40% damage of an LR build.

    The reason PI was nerfed was because that one skill, even though it couldn't crit, was so spammable that it actually contributed to a bulk of the build's damage.
    It was overnerfed for sure, but being able to deal 2k damage per interrupt and be able to chain dazes is abit much.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    Eh, daredevil is supposed to be as much offensive as scrapper. They are bruiser specs with the primary function of durability and CC, damage is a secondary role for these elite specs by design.

    PI is not really supposed to be a dps trait in the first place. Think more of it as "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy", just like the trait from scrapper which puts vulnerability and weakness on the enemy if you stun or daze them or spellbreaker inflicting immobilize if they stun or daze an enemy.

    Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is supposed to be. But these are not supposed to be huge dps sources, like the trait from soulbeast which gives you 10% extra damage on CCed enemies, since this is an actual offensive trait line (dps is the primary target of soulbeast, not durability and CC).

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .
    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:
    The biggest change last february was to make CC deal no damage. After saying they aim to remove damage from all CC, why is LR still in the game

    CMC covered this in a video/interview

    Source? I'm interested in his reasons.

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    Hi there. WvW player here, so maybe I'm out of my depth, but I fail to see how lightning rod can pose such a threat. I don't even run it on my build when I run air, mostly because the ferocity and damage availability of fresh air is awesome. I mean, to make a comparison, look at the base damage of weaver's other skills:

    Lightning Rod: 253
    Flame Uprising: 916 with all ticks
    Cauterizing Strike: 587
    Quantum Strike: 773
    Earthen Vortex: 458
    Twin Strike: 550
    Pyro Vortex: 1,335
    Lava Skin: 484
    Shearing Edge: 367
    Natural Frenzy: 864

    So even if they do plink away for 253 every time they use Polaric Leap, that is hardly going to be a prime source of damage. Personally my big hitter is going form Fire/Earth and doing this:

    Lava Skin -> Flame Uprising -> Earthquake (swap to air) -> Pyro Vortex while stunned (swap to air) -> Quantum Strike -> Ride the Lightning

    With 3,728 base damage before stats and modifiers, I'll bake an enemy cake out of you with this. Running Lightning Rod would remove 16.7% crit damage, 8 vulnerability, and Quantum Strike + Ride the Lightning in exchange for 253 damage on Earthquake and an optional Polaric Leap. It's not an even trade.

    WvW is an unbalanced mess, you get to do PvE numbers in there 90% of the time. In PvP damage is toned down, and the combo you described is just not something most players would get hit by. If I was up against you as an LR ele for example, I'd just interrupt said combo with one of my many readily available CC-s at Flame Uprising. And from that point on it doesn't matter that you can land 15-20K damage combos on short cooldowns, because my 4-5K damage CC-s would ruin those.
    If you pop cooldowns to block or cover with stability, I just hang back for a few seconds, then jump back into your face and keep spamming my interrupts.

    Don't get too lost in the details. I react to what my opponent does, just like everyone else. The point is that Lightning Rod isn't overpowering, especially when Ele launches attacks three times stronger than that with regular consistency. That 0.95 modifier is a bit deceptive: the skill uses unarmed weapon strength (690.5) for its strikes. That's why its listed damage is so low.

    It took a bit, but I think I figured out what you're talking about. I was confused, because if you're hitting for 5k on lightning Rod, then it would mean that you were hitting for 15k with Quantum Strike and 18k with Natural Frenzy. Complaining about lightning rod at that point would be straining at the gnat while swallowing the camel. Turns out, you're talking about a very specific skill (Katabatic Wind). That one, alongside of Pile Driver, are exceptions to the rule that CC doesn't do damage. I'm sure Pile Driver is intended because it is on staff, but I'm not sure how Katabatic Wind managed to squeeze by the balance patch. It isn't good to base balance around the exception, though. If Katabatic Wind proves to be such a problem when combined with LR, I'd rather put it in line with other CCs before obliterating LR.

    Just off the top of my head, Comet and Tornado also kept their damage. There might be more but I cba to check every ele skill. And even those that didn't, they are still dealing up to 3K damage with LR procs. If a hammer warrior gets to deal no damage while chaining you down with CC-s, ele shouldn't be able to either.
    I wouldn't mind if the chain was 1 CC for setup, then a burst, then CC again... it's currently possible to just spam CC and whittle down the enemy unless they have stability on cooldown. You can mudslide into them to nullify simple stunbreaks, you have 2 unblockable CC-s to get through blocks, dagger/focus weaver is way too loaded with CC.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why do we keep comparing LR to PI?

    One is a grandmaster trait in a dps traitline centered around critical strikes. (Hence why it can crit)

    The other is a master trait trait in a defensive traitline centered around mobility and evasion.

    Yes, PI was overnerfed, but even if Anet decides to buff it, it should not necessarily have the same power as LR.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    Eh, daredevil is supposed to be as much offensive as scrapper. They are bruiser specs with the primary function of durability and CC, damage is a secondary role for these elite specs by design.

    Not really, Scrapper is actually more defensive than offensive (or was, nowadays it has some extra damage multipliers it didnt have). Daredevil was always primarily a traitline you picked for damage and mobility. Hell, it used to provide practically no defense. Both of the damage reduction traits and the extra health traits are later additions. Damage is Daredevils primary role. CC secondary, and defense tertiary.

    PI is not really supposed to be a dps trait in the first place. Think more of it as "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy", just like the trait from scrapper which puts vulnerability and weakness on the enemy if you stun or daze them or spellbreaker inflicting immobilize if they stun or daze an enemy.

    No, actually, it is supposed to be a DPS trait. Thats why it launched with a pretty big modifier, and does nothing but damage. Well, that and the fact that "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy" is genuinely 100% worthless, and results in Daredevil currently having only 2 master traits to choose from.

    Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is supposed to be. But these are not supposed to be huge dps sources, like the trait from soulbeast which gives you 10% extra damage on CCed enemies, since this is an actual offensive trait line (dps is the primary target of soulbeast, not durability and CC).

    And therein lies your issue. "Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is NOT supposed to be.". Daredevil is supposed to be a high damage evasive threat. PI is supposed to be a huge DPS source, thats what it was designed as, and thats the only way it was playable. And soulbeast is more bruiser-y than Daredevil. DPS is the primary purpose of Daredevil, while for Soulbeast durability actually is the primary purpose.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Why do we keep comparing LR to PI?

    Similar concepts, similar purpose.

    One is a grandmaster trait in a dps traitline centered around critical strikes. (Hence why it can crit)

    The other is a master trait trait in a defensive traitline centered around mobility and evasion.

    Daredevil is an offensive (or dps if you want) traitline, not a defensive one. Its centered around mobility and damage. And master traits are not supposed to be inherently weaker than grandmaster traits, merely more straightforward.

    Yes, PI was overnerfed, but even if Anet decides to buff it, it should not necessarily have the same power as LR.

    Correct. Since its harder to proc, delayed and does not come with an additional fairly significant effect, it should have more power. Usually I'd say that should be partially offset by Thieves mobility forcing them to be less effective at doing damage, but since the SB5 nerf, thats not even the case, so straight up just more.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.