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Lightning Rod gets the Impacting Disruption Treatment when?

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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Not really, Scrapper is actually more defensive than offensive (or was, nowadays it has some extra damage multipliers it didnt have).

    Its not supposed to be, and never was. It also, ironically, has fewer damage multipliers than before.

    That's my point, daredevil is also supposed to be more defensive than offensive. You might deny it, but daredevil was not designed as a primary damage spec.

    I will deny it, because it was in fact designed as a primary damage spec. But Ill get back to that in a bit.

    It is a bruiser. Absolutely everything in it's design is telling it, but I will provide various examples to point this out more clearly now.

    Ok, since going bit by bit is going to take forever. Lets instead look at Daredevil as it was originally. Pop Quiz. The initial version of Daredevil, before any changes. How many damage reduction traits did that traitline have. If you answered "none", congratulations! You got it correctly. The original Daredevil traitline had 0 damage reducing traits. It only had 1 true defensive trait, and 2 that were borderline. The true defensive one was healing on dodge, the borderline ones were weakness on crit (does provide defense, but also messes with endurance which is an offensive capability), and condi cleanse on dodge (can help survive, but also helps cleanse anti-offense condis like cripple, weak, chill and rarely fear). On the other hand, the traitline had 6 offensive traits.

    Pop quiz, question 2: What current traitline is most like the old Daredevil in its layout? If you answered "Deadly Arts", an offensive traitline, congratulations! You are once again correct. Critical Strikes is a bit further away (it lacks the utility traits that DD has), but its probably the second-closest answer. After all, DA also has a healing trait, and a weakness trait. It trades the condi cleanse for improvs ability to reuse some of the defensive stolen tiems. How odd, isnt it? Its the most like 2 offensive traitlines.

    Now, for comparision, lets look at the one genuine defense-focused traitline thief has. Acrobatics. Acrobatics has 1 vaguely offensive traitline. The rest are all defensive or utility. That is what a primary defense traitline looks like. Incidentally, it is not what Daredevil looks like. At all. In fact, this is the traitline DD is furthest away from.

    Now, as for why your comparision fails, lets go over it briefly.

    Melee weapons always have defense built in. Holos Sword doesnt need it because its a mainhand power weapon and as such can only be played with Engineers shield, a weapon that provides the defense. No one would disagree that Reaper is a DPS spec, but it too has built-in defense. So does Mirage Axe. Hell, so does Spellbreakers dagger.

    I love how misleading you are about the skills. "Fist Flurry -> Has a stun at the end". No mention of it being a pure DPS skill on the first half, and originally having a lot of DPS on the second half. Likewise ignoring that Impact Strike is primarily there for damage, as is impairing daggers. Also ignoring that disrupting daggers were meant to work with the on-interrupt traits, yknow, the ones that actually do damage and nothing else? The only one that really fits your description is Bandits defense, but its not unusual for a DPS spec to have one defensive skill. Holo has 2.

    Pretty much all of those traits were added to DD much later. Some even after PI was nerfed. You also added PI to defense rather than damage (???) and forgot to mention that weakening strikes and staff master are both primarily about damage. Also ignoring bound, or that evades are also for damage purposes, thanks to bound. And not mentioning that 3 of the "defense" traits are all in the minor slot, while you have no choice for defense in the major, and barely one in the grandmaster.

    As for the statlines, you put too much weight on them. Berserker, possibly the most UNGA designed spec, the one that is about damage and absolutely nothing else? Well, would it surprise you to know that it doesn't have Berserkers either? It has Sentinels. The only offensive stat combination it gives is Sinister, and Im pretty sure that was a change made to make Sinister more easily available. Heralds focused more on condition damage despite not really having condition damage. Or hell, by your own logic, Scrapper shouldn't have Berserker. But it does. Yes, Daredevils stats are off. Its not the only spec like that.

    No, actually, it is supposed to be a DPS trait. Thats why it launched with a pretty big modifier, and does nothing but damage. Well, that and the fact that "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy" is genuinely 100% worthless, and results in Daredevil currently having only 2 master traits to choose from.

    No, it really isn't. But considering how often I see this misconception of daredevil being a "dps spec", I understand why people are misunderstanding this trait as well.
    Sure, it could probably use a buff. But it is not supposed to be a great dps tool. Like I said, small rewards for CC are common for bruiser specs.

    It is. The misconception is of Daredevil being a "bruiser spec". I understand as a result why you misunderstand PI as well. Though I don't understand why you ignore its original design or intent. Its supposed to be a great DPS tool. Thats what it was designed as originally. Big damage on condition is common for dps specs.

    And therein lies your issue. "Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is NOT supposed to be.". Daredevil is supposed to be a high damage evasive threat. PI is supposed to be a huge DPS source, thats what it was designed as, and thats the only way it was playable. And soulbeast is more bruiser-y than Daredevil. DPS is the primary purpose of Daredevil, while for Soulbeast durability actually is the primary purpose.

    I think I have shown in detail that daredevil is indeed quite focused on defense and CC. Daredevil is a bruiser spec, it is Anet's answer to the question "how can we make thief into a tank and still make it thematically fitting?".

    You haven't. Its a DPS spec. It was Anet's answer to the question "how can we make thief buy the original acrobatics again". Daredevil isn't and never was intended to be a tank. Hence why it originally had practically no defense. What it was meant to be, was a new take on the existing S/D playstyle, that is evasive glass cannon.

    And this answer has been an evasion tank. Thematically, something similar like Shen from League of Legends. Daredevil is a bruiser, which is still using the defensive mechanics which are flavoured for thief, which to some large part are evasions/dodges.

    Once again, false. Thematically, Daredevil is similar most to Fizz or Kha'Zix from League. Its a DPS spec.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .
    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec or a Defensive one (based on what you choose) .

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait
    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal
    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction
    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option - PI or +15% increase
    Defense > Gain more endurance when you Steal , which is a diffensive option . ("Mug" is classified as Offensive)
    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option-10% damage or an offensive +15% .But mostly people use the Defensive option

    If people use the Unhindered Combatant , then the spec is classified as "Defensive" with 83,3% of defensive traits

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .
    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .
    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive . They dont other Utility , but straight up Survibility
    Blind/Weakness/slow/Stun count as Utility/Survibiliy spells , because the enemy wont have time to attack/deal more damage to your Friend .

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage-50% defense ) or an 83,3% Defensive option is up to you . But most use the latter

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .
    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .
    If Mug can do now 635 with 0,75 conf , then with 2.0 conf it could do 1600?
    1600+872 frontloaded damage + 450(crit) from Headshot =?

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).
    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .
    If we mix it with 5 Might =150 Power , he can reach 3200 , whch hold true in the thing i said : "2900-3300"

    And Dash is a defensive option .
    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .
    You are wrong about that too :)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .

    I win again ?:)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    Now you can wisper me ingame , to agree if Dash is an offensive or defensive tool :)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    There there , its ok child :)

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    There there , its ok child :)

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    I think you're missing his point. He's saying that Pulminary Impact hits for ~1000. This is the delayed damage you take after being interrupted.

    This is separate from the damage caused by the interrupt skill. It is also separate from damage caused by other traits, or any additional conditions applied in conjunction with the crowd control skill.

    He's arguing that PI does 1k damage while you're arguing that PI + headshot + steal (mug) =/= 1k damage. You're arguing two completely different points.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results
    Then equip the Berseker Amulet

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

    Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

    Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results
    Then equip the Berseker Amulet
    Do the same with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm (spoilers , it stills does 42 damage , even with Berseker Amulet)

    I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results
    Then equip the Berseker Amulet

    He's right. Damage in GW2 is not like healing. There are no base values. We have weapon strength and damage coefficients. The reason why you still deal damage with no gear is because all level 80 characters have 1000 power an 5% crit chance.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

    Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results
    Then equip the Berseker Amulet

    I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

    Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭

    nerf lightning rod this spec that has 12k hp is 99% melee range and is lgiht armor is overperforming into my holo that has just as many 5k crits that lightning rod does but from 900 range and is just as fast without even trying to spec into it and actually has condi cleanse D:

    I'm a well known nobody.
    Former member of [MnF], [DnT], [dP], and [Hg]. Winner of the 2018 ERP Tournament.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

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    @FrownyClown.8402 said:
    Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

    Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

    ahaha that was a good times :)
    Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

    PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

    Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

    It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)
    I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

    Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

    1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

    Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

    You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefest
    But in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

    Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?
    Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?
    Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

    Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

    With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

    Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did that little. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

    And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

    Ok, lets be real. Its not.

    Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

    This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

    Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

    This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

    Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

    This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

    Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

    Correct.

    Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

    Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

    Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

    Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

    But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

    Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

    If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

    Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

    I am not.

    If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

    Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

    And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

    No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

    I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .
    I am sorry you where wrong :)

    Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

    If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

    Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

    You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .
    I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

    I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

    I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

    Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

    The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

    The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

    I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

    Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

    And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

    Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

    I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

    You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf
    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .
    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014
    So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

    Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

    And Dash is a defensive option .

    It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

    Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

    Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

    Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

    Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

    The bots , have the same armor as players .
    If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .
    If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

    They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

    Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

    Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

    Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .
    I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

    No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

    As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

    Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

    Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

    Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

    1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

    There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

    Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

    Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

    Look on PI :
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvP
    Damage: 199 (0.75)
    199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 872
    0,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .
    So you are wrong again :)

    Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

    No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

    It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have
    It used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 2.0 you had

    Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

    Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

    Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results
    Then equip the Berseker Amulet

    I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

    Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

    You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .
    Do the same with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vault

    Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November