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3/23 PvP Balance

Hi everyone,

Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

Condition Guardian Variants

  • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

Minion Necromancer

  • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
  • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

Support Core Guardian

  • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
  • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
  • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
  • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

Ventari Revenant

  • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
  • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

Shiro Renegade

  • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

Power Herald

  • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
  • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
  • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.
We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

Looking Ahead
The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

-The Systems Team

aka cmc
Game Designer on PvP/WvW

Tagged:
<134

Comments

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    A power Guard buff in the future would be nice. Burn DH only came to be because power damage on Guardian is extremely low since the Writ of Persistence nerf and hard to land with low mobility.

    Adding the Sigil of Fire effect to our F1 Virtue of Justice in form of a new trait or removing the immob on True Shot would work wonders in order to make power Guard a little more viable, because as it stands right now most of our weapon skills are nerfed symbols, support skills, control skills or autoattacks, with little to no burst option left without running full glass canon.
    Glad to see Burn DH nerfed though, well done and thank you!

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for the communication and hitting a lot of the strongest meta builds (guard/herald).

    Interested to see how this will change the meta.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    Trading mender's amulet for sigil of transference seems like an elegant solution to the support/bunker problem we have at the moment (albeit less than ideal considering the loss of another amulet). I like that it would bring down the durability of support builds while compensating for the loss in healing output. To that end, perhaps we could see a reduction in healing power on healing based amulets and an increase in % healing to allies?

    It's worth noting that this may push supports towards sage amulet instead of menders, leading to more dps/support hybridization than we have now. If supports can recieve similar healing output with transferrence sigils as they can with mender while running sage, this might end up resulting in a resurgence of support firebrand/ hybrid scourge. Just a thought.

    Marshal amulet should stay but swap the stats to:

    1000 power
    1000 precision
    500 healing power
    500 condition damage

    Give supports an option that says "I want to sacrifice my personal survivability to dish out as much damage as possible". When compared to sage/avatar, this wouldn't be unhealthy.

    Lastly, I'd like to give a big thank you for taking the time to write this out. Communication like this is exactly what we need. Even if it's just the occasional write up like this where we can better understand your thoughts, and the general direction you'd like to move in.

  • mes.4607mes.4607 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    I'm happy to see this communication. BRAVO. Also, YES! The game is way too SLOW right now! Needs to be faster paced (less bunkers/supports).

    Barrier across the board needs to be nerfed. People shouldn't super sustaining themselves with "false" HP

    How the heck do I get 5 stars?
  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will bite any though about having these balance updates move over to WvW?

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Stale.3527Stale.3527 Member ✭✭

    This is really good communication - I only wish for more of this in the future. Nothing I can really complain about here! Thank you!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    I am just satisfied that you consider more the actual in game development than the forum circus, glad to know you're keeping a close eye to AT matches rather than the silver/bronze soloQ "experience" on the forum

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good changes, I agree with the slow pace and waiting for the scourge touch, when support guard is brought down, scourge might be not that mighty as it is now. Especially if you looking for Marshall and menders Amulett to remove, since that's where scourge gets it barrier power

    Let's look how mat looks like

  • No nerfs on Warrior is a win for this patch for me. But anything, please anything, for changes that would allow warriors to not be bound to a single build (in Strength Spellbreaker)!!!
    Berserker needs to return to the meta, not as a cheesy one-shot/glass cannon build. Also, need some way to bring back Core more into the game.

    I digress though. Good job and keep it up.

    Make Banner Warrior for Zergs great again!!!

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • choovanski.5462choovanski.5462 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    gotta think about the goal for balance. that's a hard one for WvW imo. there are so many differing opinions of how the game should be

    i would hate to see guardian nerfed in WvW just because it's popular, and to see the entire mode descend into pirate ships and clouds because melee push is no longer viable anymore.

    maybe I'm bias because I play warrior and like a melee push, I'm sure there are tons of deadeye and ranger players who would argue range cloud gameplay is ideal WvW. some players don't even like the idea of zergs, and think they shouldn't exist at all.

    i feel like what WvW should be is so much more debated than sPvP, that it's just so much harder to balance there. then you have small Vs large scale, customisable stats and all these things- and it just gets messy.

    It's coming for me through the trees
    Help me someone
    Help me please
    Take my shoes off and throw them in the lake

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:

    Minion Necromancer

    • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

    slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

    While I very much do appreciate the MM reductions does this now imply that this trait actually works and deals strike damage when minions die?
    As far as ive ever been able to recall the strike damage has always been bugged so that its never EVER dealt any form of strike/power damage despite the tool tip saying it should. It makes me wonder if the previous nerf and this one even matter because the trait never dealt damage strike/power damage anyways.

    Its some what bugged me that this trait continues to get nerfed specifically in power coefficients when it deals no power damage in the first place.
    Is there any way of looking into this?
    Or can anyone confirm if this bug has been fixed as far as i know its always been bugged for years now.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    While SoJ needed some adjustment, three 50% nerfs stacked on top of each other (+minor mitigation and sustain nerfs) might be a bit much for Burn DH, especially since you later lament the slow pace and lack of damage in the meta.

    Personally a bit sad to see that Minionmancer, per design, is just not meant to be ever viable in any gamemode, although somewhat understandable for PvP.

    If you remove Mender's anyway in favour of an Outgoing Healing Sigil (which does not affect Barrier), I'd hope to not see Scourge obliterated any further on behalf of Mender Scourge.

    Glad to see Rev getting tuned down a bit.

    Appreciate the communication, although I do find it odd that you want to go as far as deleting any main support Amulets, while nerfing any options that are or are getting popular because they precisely counter people stacking up and bunkering with a support, such as Burn Guard and Scourge.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • It is fine to remove Mender's Amulet and lead supports to use Avatar's Amulet, but instead of removing Marshal amulet just change stats to:

    Power 1000
    Precision 1000
    Healing power 500
    Condition damage 500

    Without vitality or toughness, and without ferocity this amulet wouldn't provide much power damage nor much condition damage nor much tankiness.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    What about WvW? And PvE? I know WvW had a huge balance patch today too (1 change, for engi), but can we have some discussion on that?

    [NUKE]

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    I'm 100% biased considering I main engi, with scrapper and core being my preferred two specializations, but if scrapper is nerfed in WvW then it will be a nearly dead elite spec. Outclassed as a dps and as a support in PvE. Relevant, but still outclassed in PvP (and given how freely nerfs are dished out this is subject to change within a single patch). And stripped of it's role in WvW it'll have no place to shine.

    What scrapper needs isn't a nerf. It needs a rework.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    gotta think about the goal for balance. that's a hard one for WvW imo. there are so many differing opinions of how the game should be

    i would hate to see guardian nerfed in WvW just because it's popular, and to see the entire mode descend into pirate ships and clouds because melee push is no longer viable anymore.

    maybe I'm bias because I play warrior and like a melee push, I'm sure there are tons of deadeye and ranger players who would argue range cloud gameplay is ideal WvW. some players don't even like the idea of zergs, and think they shouldn't exist at all.

    i feel like what WvW should be is so much more debated than sPvP, that it's just so much harder to balance there. then you have small Vs large scale, customisable stats and all these things- and it just gets messy.

    The main targets would be : engineer and necromancer, both of them have been receiving nerf mostly in PvP only where other professions have seen huge meta changing in both modes......elementalist...ranger...warrior....thief...mesmer they been all nerfed in both gamemodes at 60/40 rate where necro and engi have been mostly 80/20 for PvP/WvW.

    I'd like to see some adjustments for engineer : Purity of Purpose needs an ICD and Necromancer for starter needs Lich Form duration reduced to 10s globaly and not just pvp while it's 20s in PvE/WvW....also they may want to look at Reaper's onslaught finally ......a trait granting 40% crit dmg for just pressing F1 where ele needs to invest 3 traits, trigger FA(if running it) and still need to crit first to reach same result....and there is also Deathly Perception granting a 39% crit chance just by pressing F1...this sort of traits allow for something like :

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSQAEO0WgNYA-zVIYSUwDA-w

    A full soldier build with marauder burst...

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    I'm 100% biased considering I main engi, with scrapper and core being my preferred two specializations, but if scrapper is nerfed in WvW then it will be a nearly dead elite spec. Outclassed as a dps and as a support in PvE. Relevant, but still outclassed in PvP (and given how freely nerfs are dished out this is subject to change within a single patch). And stripped of it's role in WvW it'll have no place to shine.

    What scrapper needs isn't a nerf. It needs a rework.

    I don't believe a small ICD on Purity of Purpose will make scrapper useless...at the very least it won't be spammed to death, I'd rather have a meta where each contributes something to the zerg instead than having an "invicible" wall pushing under heavy fire without any care in the world

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Leaa.2943Leaa.2943 Member ✭✭✭

    How come you can clearly see in PvP that condi reve is or was a bit op there and there for they got the nerfs needed. Mean while in WvW this is still a problem in small scale fights but for some reason we just need to deal with it in WvW and hoping for each patch that it finally is gonna change the condi kitten reve. I mean there is no counter for that more then cleanse. You can not stop moving because damage keep on ticking anyway and you die if you stand still. And if you don't have 20 cleanses that reve is gonna screw you over with yet more stacks of Torment. In WvW gear matter and the stats that was so op in PvP, we still have them in WvW but no nerfs at all on condi and more so Torment. Why is that and when will this change?

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:
    Gone over a whole year of basically nothing but nerfs mainly increased cool downs and damage reductions to bring game play to a slow boring crawl and the plan going forward is to just keep nerfing. Decap meta is a symptom of overnerfing where nothing else does stuff, so you play player vs point instead of player vs player. Lessons have not been learned, you won't speed the game up again until you start actually letting people use their non auto attack skills with reasonable regularity. Really the game is more spammy than ever because you run out of skills to use so fast then just spam whatever comes off cool down first since there is nothing else to chose from other than autoing. But yeah moar nurfs totally making game more fun. Also just cut to the chase and remove all amulets other than berserker and sinister because defensive stats on gear are totally the root cause of the boring gameplay.

    sounds like rev main upset that their skills might have actual cooldowns.
    Btw, if someone were to ask me whats the cooldown on Phase Traversal I would take a guess 15-20s, the fact that skills like this were getting away with kitten 5s cd is the reason why rev is played by the best and why the best tend to win.

    As for the general feedback.
    Most damage skills lost ~30-33% dmg
    Most sustain lost ~ 25% output.
    On top of that CC no longer does damage, so overall damage went down closer to ~35-40% while sustain went down much less, instead off removing healing amulets, just nerf the actual passive sustain, its not just supports that heal too much. Everyone does, I as a berk amulet roamer shouldnt be able to heal close to 300k SELF HEALING in a match. Just my thoughts.

    If you're healing for 300K with a berseker amulet during a match, it means ..nobody targeting you and the match being played will most likely end 500 to 100 for your side.

    Did I sign up for a MMO or Call of Duty Fantasy warfare?...I don't know what you guys want at this point....one button=kill? headshot and killstrike?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Heisen.2315Heisen.2315 Member ✭✭✭

    Great nerfs, welcoming patch!

  • Flumek.9043Flumek.9043 Member ✭✭✭

    Great work and communication.

    It feels safe to know that a recent late bloomer like scourge is on the radar and worked on.

  • Novahh.7426Novahh.7426 Member ✭✭

    Alliances lookin fantastic!

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    A really detailed patch with some good changes.

    Mender scourge is something I have mixt feelings about. Alone it is not the best build but it can be fun even in ranked (where it is hard to play with people randomly moving). But combined with something else that has / gives sustain slows the game down a lot.

    ABOUT MENDER
    While some people think that removing mender in favor of pushing healing to allies is a good idea, I also have to remind them that it is 100% the treatment druid got in the past. Traits, weapon, healing values, almost everything got changed in favor of pushing effects to the allies. The end result is incomplete and lacking any support capabilities while having a weak sustain compared to any other actual support build. This change would require a LOT of adjustments and is a hard (even if commendable) goal to reach.
    Edit : I support the goal of preventing "bulkier support" and will support this change if you commit to it. I am just concerned about the possible loss of support builds once more for a long period of time.

  • Seteruss.4058Seteruss.4058 Member ✭✭✭

    As a guard main, i'm really happy to see those builds tone down. It was really sick to not be able to react with all this condi fiesta(and no i'm not playing condi)

  • lovemghool.7613lovemghool.7613 Member ✭✭✭

    the moment I see "remove" at this point in time after all the "remove"s you have done so far is the moment I know Anet needs a bigger department to work this out. Lets just say I am glad you are not in charge of the other game modes along with the secret shadow discord meetings.
    but hey thanks for the communication right? you buffed your communication skills.

    now after all the support builds except scrapper have been nerfed could please tell the community what are your expectations of support builds? if you were going to consider removing/replacing menders amulet then why double nerf the skills of support builds? should a support class not exist in pvp? are you not concerned that the build diversity in pvp has gone downhill so much since feb patch? or is this something you are hoping to address once the new expansion is out? since you have started to communicate perhaps it is time to address this; one of the most obvious shortcomings of the feb patch that hit game-wide.

    well good luck to you whatever you plan to develop.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    I'm 100% biased considering I main engi, with scrapper and core being my preferred two specializations, but if scrapper is nerfed in WvW then it will be a nearly dead elite spec. Outclassed as a dps and as a support in PvE. Relevant, but still outclassed in PvP (and given how freely nerfs are dished out this is subject to change within a single patch). And stripped of it's role in WvW it'll have no place to shine.

    What scrapper needs isn't a nerf. It needs a rework.

    I don't believe a small ICD on Purity of Purpose will make scrapper useless...at the very least it won't be spammed to death, I'd rather have a meta where each contributes something to the zerg instead than having an "invicible" wall pushing under heavy fire without any care in the world

    Initially, what scrapper brought to the table that let it stand out from other supports (namely firebrand) was superspeed and cleansing and stealth. Anet heavily nerfed their superspeed by reworking it to proc on heal rather than on blast/leap finishers. (My least favorite scrapper change to this day). The stealth also got toned down, but its' at least still useful thanks to guards helping blast the field with staff 2. Now scrapper's niche is it's ability to convert it's cleansing into boons. I should note that this is the core of scrapper's group utility, and it's largest remaining niche. Granted, it's an incredibly useful niche, but outside of it, it's an incredibly selfish elite specialization by nature. A "small" nerf to this would have much larger ramifications than what one might assume on paper.

    WIth it's boon access stripped, what's stopping someone from simply replacing them with a heal tempest? What else does scrapper bring to the table outside of Purity of Purpose outside of being a Stealth Gyro bot?

    I can understand wanting to bring scrapper in line, but doing so in WvW will be bringing it even further out of line in the game as a whole. It will be left to rot in mediocrity as it has everywhere else, and given Anet's track record with Scrapper, I don't have faith that they will give it any love when it starts underperforming gamewide.

  • Skyroar.2974Skyroar.2974 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2021

    @snoow.1694 said:
    A power Guard buff in the future would be nice. Burn DH only came to be because power damage on Guardian is extremely low since the Writ of Persistence nerf and hard to land with low mobility.

    Adding the Sigil of Fire effect to our F1 Virtue of Justice in form of a new trait or removing the immob on True Shot would work wonders in order to make power Guard a little more viable, because as it stands right now most of our weapon skills are nerfed symbols, support skills, control skills or autoattacks, with little to no burst option left without running full glass canon.
    Glad to see Burn DH nerfed though, well done and thank you!

    I agree with this post. Regardless of how problematic DH Burn was, this update leaves us guardian players without a proper offensive build to play with.

    But when it comes to this poster's suggestion to add power damage to F1, I'd argue that it should happen not as a trait, but as a baseline effect for the entire profession instead. It's always a bit odd - and unsatisfying - that guardian's offensive profession mechanic is kind of meaningless/ underwhelming to power builds. F1 applying burning only (passively or actively) seems, to me, like an outdated design choice from 2012 as a reference to GW1's Paragon hybrid damage concept, except it kind of doesn't works very well in GW2 due to how the attribute system works - it's either too strong (burn builds rely mostly on the passive procs as their main source of condition damage), or too subtle and obscure (power builds don't care about that except to fuel their traits that grant +damage/ critical against burning foes). Giving a Sigil of Air/ Fire kind of effect to Guardian's F1 would make that profession mechanic far more satisfying to a wider variety of builds across all game modes, while also contributing to bring power guardians back to pvp.

  • I mean I feel like the obvious solution is often wasted breath here, but instead of completely removing all healing power amulets and somehow thinking a mere sigil would be a suitable replacement, why not introduce new stat sets that have outgoing healing on them as a minor/major stat instead?

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    I'm 100% biased considering I main engi, with scrapper and core being my preferred two specializations, but if scrapper is nerfed in WvW then it will be a nearly dead elite spec. Outclassed as a dps and as a support in PvE. Relevant, but still outclassed in PvP (and given how freely nerfs are dished out this is subject to change within a single patch). And stripped of it's role in WvW it'll have no place to shine.

    What scrapper needs isn't a nerf. It needs a rework.

    I don't believe a small ICD on Purity of Purpose will make scrapper useless...at the very least it won't be spammed to death, I'd rather have a meta where each contributes something to the zerg instead than having an "invicible" wall pushing under heavy fire without any care in the world

    Initially, what scrapper brought to the table that let it stand out from other supports (namely firebrand) was superspeed and cleansing and stealth. Anet heavily nerfed their superspeed by reworking it to proc on heal rather than on blast/leap finishers. (My least favorite scrapper change to this day). The stealth also got toned down, but its' at least still useful thanks to guards helping blast the field with staff 2. Now scrapper's niche is it's ability to convert it's cleansing into boons. I should note that this is the core of scrapper's group utility, and it's largest remaining niche. Granted, it's an incredibly useful niche, but outside of it, it's an incredibly selfish elite specialization by nature. A "small" nerf to this would have much larger ramifications than what one might assume on paper.

    WIth it's boon access stripped, what's stopping someone from simply replacing them with a heal tempest? What else does scrapper bring to the table outside of Purity of Purpose outside of being a Stealth Gyro bot?

    I can understand wanting to bring scrapper in line, but doing so in WvW will be bringing it even further out of line in the game as a whole. It will be left to rot in mediocrity as it has everywhere else, and given Anet's track record with Scrapper, I don't have faith that they will give it any love when it starts underperforming gamewide.

    That just speaks to the need of a rework of Scrapper then no? Specifically the interaction of Alchemy with Purge Gyro. I'm personally of the belief that no further nerfs (or amulet removals) are needed. What is needed now is to start tweaking parts of the classes back up.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not touching Scourge and Rune of the Trapper and just watching them is a mistake in my opinion.

    You could have at least reduced the Sand Shade AoE radius and removed the Stealth part of the rune.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for communication. When you adjust mender scourge please find a way that only affects this particular build.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i wish, you cared as much about pve and wvw as you do for spvp

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    Did I sign up for a MMO or Call of Duty Fantasy warfare?...I don't know what you guys want at this point....one button=kill? headshot and killstrike?

    There is a large time-to-kill range between what we have now and one-shots. I can't speak for everyone, but I just want them to meet in the middle between what we have now and what we had prior to the February 25th 2020 patch. I'd like certain specs that have been nerfed into complete obscurity to be made whole again.

  • @Nimon.7840 said:
    i wish, you cared as much about pve and wvw as you do for spvp

    If this is the type of balancing that PvE and WvW is given (Only Nerfs), I certainly hope neither of these modes are balanced in future