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3/23 PvP Balance

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  • Ovark.2514Ovark.2514 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fashion Mage.3712 said:
    I mean I feel like the obvious solution is often wasted breath here, but instead of completely removing all healing power amulets and somehow thinking a mere sigil would be a suitable replacement, why not introduce new stat sets that have outgoing healing on them as a minor/major stat instead?

    This is what I was going to say. Switch all amulets with major Healing Power into major Benevolence. And maybe add a minor healing power as part of the amulet if need be.

  • Mukluk.9082Mukluk.9082 Member ✭✭

    Thank you for these changes! I had one concern reading this I wanted to bring up.

    If you choose to nerf rune of the trapper, please remember that guardian is not the only class that uses it.

    Back when sic'em sniper was running rampant, a change was made that converted ranger shouts into "commands" so that they couldn't interact with the rune of the soldier anymore. Although this helped with sic'em sniper in a small way, it also killed many other ranger builds that were no where near as busted. I hope that if you choose to nerf rune of the trapper because of the recent guardian epidemic that there won't be collateral damage.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta.

    Does this only apply to non-ranger classes/necromancer specifically or does this mean that ranger will be forever in the gutter or do we get an complete rework with the expansion? Ranger is by design AI-heavy, so there is no space for ranger with this philosophy applied to all classes.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    shield of judgement and charged mists are now garbage. add something else to them or replace them pls.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Albert.3574Albert.3574 Member ✭✭

    DELETE DUO THEN ALL EASY

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    What worries are these quotes (only a few listed below)

    At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.
    Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change
    Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.
    so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports.
    Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.
    It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes.

    So given ANET and CMC track record we can expect some of these '' future ''changes in about a year.

    And lastly

    To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets
    Ahh yes the standard fix instead of actually balancing.

    Thanks ANET. grab yourself a cookie.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    Hello dear Anet.

    I am still too unexperianced to give an opinion about the changes made, but what i can tell is that this are some pretty big changes for 1 patch in my opinion.

    i would like to advocate for more small changes but more frequently and buffing the underperforming specs.

    If you plan on increasing the damage generally, please dont make it too bursty, because bursty meta is very annoying and discouraging for new people.

    Best regards and be healthy

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    i wish, you cared as much about pve and wvw as you do for spvp

    I'd rather PvE did not receive another wave of nerfs (with the compensating buffs planned to follow in the future, but never actually materializing), thank you very much.

    Still, communication is good, i hope devs will keep it up.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good patch overall.

    Though I feel the main issue with the current patching was overlooked, which I believe to be too much revive power in the current patching.

    • Instant revive skills needs to be reviewed. They are potent right now, honestly.
    • Traits linked to revive power need to be reviewed.
    • Normal general revive speed needs to be reviewed.
  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    lol at 12 second CD on Phase Traversal. Thief players that complained about Infiltrator's Arrow please take note, this is what real suffering looks like.

    Ah yes, "real suffering" is when your class is picked 4 times in the finals alone, as opposed to once in the top 4. By a team that didnt even make finals.

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    could anet maybe try BUFFING once in a while?
    we hardly get any balance patches any more, ever since you ruined CCs and hammers last February.
    and when we do get balance its nothing but nerf this, nerf that.
    how about a BUFF for a change?
    how about instead of nerfing everything to the same useless level you buff up the useless things?

    in the very same patch as you say "The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see." you nerf damage even further.
    guardian for example, burn is pretty much the only damage that they have left now,
    and you're taking that away while pointing out that the game is too slow...
    honestly?

    enough with the nerfs.

    there was a time when i used to get excited for balance patches, because i wanted to see what new and interesting builds the flurry of buffs would bring.
    now though i'm almost glad that balance patches never happen, because i dread seeing what Anet nerf to the ground this time.

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭

    yes, remove menders, shouldnt be able to do damage as support, literally kills roles in the pvp, people qq are the ones who cant play anything other then braindead builds thats carried by mender

  • @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi everyone,

    Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

    I'm casual so maybe I am reading things incorrectly. It looks like the goal was to target overperforming specs. But you nerfed some abilities that will impact all builds, not just the ones you listed. This seems counter productive because you are reducing potential alternatives. Would it be possible to switch some of the negatives to the defining skills used in the meta builds so everything else isn't collateral damage.

  • fuzzyp.6295fuzzyp.6295 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    Please consider bringing some of these changes over to WvW to help try and balance out the small scale scene. Thanks.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    This is what this community wanted, you all made your bed, now lay in it, and keep on with the amulet removal Anet, great job :+1: look into runes and sigils next, and maybe even weapons. This is why I said time and time again that the February patch was badly executed. They never go in-depth for class balancing to fix the root of the problem. They take the lazy route out. People whine about WvW being a unbalanced mess, well that's basically unfiltered GW2 PvP.

    ah we've got a regular nostradamus here. good for you bud. no one wanted things to turn out this way, how about you get off your high horse cuz you're not fooling anyone.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • XxsdgxX.8109XxsdgxX.8109 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    I'm sorry but this was an atrocious balance patch, it's unbelievable, everything is just a nerf after nerf. Ever since that February 2020 patch the game just stopped being fun and on top of that the balance is still all over the place. Build diversity has never been worse.

  • FIX Ele dagger auto attack plz..........has infinite range and no line of sight

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:
    This is what this community wanted, you all made your bed, now lay in it, and keep on with the amulet removal Anet, great job :+1: look into runes and sigils next, and maybe even weapons. This is why I said time and time again that the February patch was badly executed. They never go in-depth for class balancing to fix the root of the problem. They take the lazy route out. People whine about WvW being a unbalanced mess, well that's basically unfiltered GW2 PvP.

    ah we've got a regular nostradamus here. good for you bud. no one wanted things to turn out this way, how about you get off your high horse cuz you're not fooling anyone.

    You don't have to be Nostradamus to know how that patch was going to affect the gamemode but people on here are too shallow they'd mistake that for baseless future predictions. Because you know, it's not like anet ever released a poorly executed patch/release, and surely they can just deliver the things pvp players have been wanting forever just out of the blue, to the degree akin to a MOBA like LoL or smite, with faster balance patches , pvp focused changes/reworks, that they said they couldn't do before when they actually had a balance team, compared to now., but somehow people are supposed to be convinced and have faith in them delivering such things with significantly less resources than they had before. I'm apparently a regular Nostradamus for looking at the track record and the patch preview before they put out those changes. :+1:

    You can say no one wanted things to turn out this way, but I'm pretty convinced this is exactly what people wanted. It's been a year already, with no signs of getting better and only getting worse., and plenty of remove X threads, and nerf Y threads. Come back down to earth sometime and ground yourself a bit.

  • Dahkeus.8243Dahkeus.8243 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The balance changes and communication are nice and all, but it doesn’t mean much when you have rampant botting and hacking going on with a report system that just doesn’t work.

    Until this is addressed, I don’t see any point in even PvPing with or without good balance adjustments.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Good patch overall.

    Though I feel the main issue with the current patching was overlooked, which I believe to be too much revive power in the current patching.

    • Instant revive skills needs to be reviewed. They are potent right now, honestly.
    • Traits linked to revive power need to be reviewed.
    • Normal general revive speed needs to be reviewed.

    Unless they remove safe finishing in the same patch, reviving should not be nerfed.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Design remove Mender amulet and nerf FB as for me very strange. This is mmo game and support is core of game. Concept then then one dps absoliutly no chance to kill one support class is valid for me. And support doing low dps per long time can kill any dps also ok. The current changes more more point to dps, and remove any chance dominate for support. O may be more, it remove support at all from pvp. Very sad.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Thank you very much for taking the time to adress this balance changes, and also mention what's to come.
    In the past I've been very critic with the aproach this company is making with its userbase. I hope you can prove me wrong, certanly this is a step in the right direction.
    Much love for our competitive devs! <3 whom hasn't forgot us yet!!! :)

  • Abelisk.5148Abelisk.5148 Member ✭✭✭

    Problem is once damage is buffed you get people crying like a baby that thief is broken, mesmer is broken, every roamer is broken.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:
    yes, remove menders, shouldnt be able to do damage as support, literally kills roles in the pvp, people qq are the ones who cant play anything other then braindead builds thats carried by mender

    The problem is though, that the alernatives that remain are Avatar's and Sage's. Meaning supports will do more damage and less healing. Meaning they won't be supports, they will be bruisers at that point. I fail to see how pushing supports towards bruiser amulets will restore roles in PvP my dude.

  • @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    yes, remove menders, shouldnt be able to do damage as support, literally kills roles in the pvp, people qq are the ones who cant play anything other then braindead builds thats carried by mender

    The problem is though, that the alernatives that remain are Avatar's and Sage's. Meaning supports will do more damage and less healing. Meaning they won't be supports, they will be bruisers at that point. I fail to see how pushing supports towards bruiser amulets will restore roles in PvP my dude.

    Funny, because Mender isn't "support amulet" either lmao, it's a hybrid amulet.
    The true support amulet would have stats like Vitaility, Healing Power and Concentration, but we have none like that. We never truly had a support amulet I guess.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:t.
    The true support amulet would have stats like Vitaility, Healing Power and Concentration

    this is no exist stat combination in any game content.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Technically minstrel amulet was a thing briefly but it was quickly removed for obvious reasons, although id say magi/clerics (maybe harrier) were probably the closest thing to actual support amulets but they wouldn't work now with damage being nerfed so much

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    yes, remove menders, shouldnt be able to do damage as support, literally kills roles in the pvp, people qq are the ones who cant play anything other then braindead builds thats carried by mender

    The problem is though, that the alernatives that remain are Avatar's and Sage's. Meaning supports will do more damage and less healing. Meaning they won't be supports, they will be bruisers at that point. I fail to see how pushing supports towards bruiser amulets will restore roles in PvP my dude.

    Avatar does not do more dmg, it's the same but more consistent

    Supports can still support, cleansing stab etc... Is not bound to healing amuletts, but with less healing power bunkers are not gonna be that selfsustainisch and with supports doing more dmg we may have a faster game

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Supports can still support, cleansing stab etc...

    who care cleansing and stab for other? this is personal problem for everyone. Ofc if we will get top stats clease or top stability share. Now only top hps ir awarded.

    Is not bound to healing amuletts

    in spvp in bound only on it.

    but with less healing power bunkers are not gonna be that selfsustainisch

    I don't think that this is ok. Support class must be unbreakkble wall for single dps.

    and with supports doing more dmg we may have a faster game

    I don't think that we need faster game, and I don't think taht is depends from that.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    i wish, you cared as much about pve and wvw as you do for spvp

    If this is the type of balancing that PvE and WvW is given (Only Nerfs), I certainly hope neither of these modes are balanced in future

    Tbh. Pve has way to much dmg.
    I remember times, when ele was peak performing at 29k. And raids were still beatable.

    Right now it's extremely annoying to see buff after buff after buff, to damage classes. While this makes raids maybe beatable for bad players, it makes doing mechanics not necessary for good and really good players, because they just burst the bosses down.

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @felix.2386 said:
    yes, remove menders, shouldnt be able to do damage as support, literally kills roles in the pvp, people qq are the ones who cant play anything other then braindead builds thats carried by mender

    The problem is though, that the alernatives that remain are Avatar's and Sage's. Meaning supports will do more damage and less healing. Meaning they won't be supports, they will be bruisers at that point. I fail to see how pushing supports towards bruiser amulets will restore roles in PvP my dude.

    I can only say what Avatar said and add some more people have the weird idea that Healbreaker and Support Tempest are healer in sPvP well they do heal but this is only on their 4th or 5th priority . What they actually are is condi cleans tank with cc which also explain when you look closer why we have so much cc in sPvP. The heal is so low at the moment no build can outheal anything because of this many build went to use their dmg block skill (like I said so often). Because of this initial cc the fight at the beginning also slows down a lot it takes 20-30s before all used their cc and blocks and we can fight normally.

    The other main point is we don't need so much mender any more because Arena.NET reduced the scaling of healing stat if I have mender or not makes max 10% healing on 25% max healing on a player in total = lose of roughly 2.5% total healing on each player daaaa

    Since Feb last year we don't have any real healer build in sPvP any more you can also see this on what sigil and runes they use heal ? no and because if menders go we will simply go for another amulet which then means we also might do some dmg then too.

    The priority how you play currently Healbreaker or Support Tempest is:

    1.CC
    2.Condi Clean
    3.Block
    4.Hold the ground
    5.Heal
    (depending on the build there is also some boons in between )

    It is not that I like that I hate what they did to this game I wished we had healers back.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    The priority how you play currently Healbreaker or Support Tempest is:

    1.CC
    2.Condi Clean
    3.Block
    4.Hold the ground
    5.Heal

    the 1 2 3 4 is not displayed in top stats pvp result so you not het any one more 1 pip for that.
    any amount of top stats will earn 1 pip, but this is not CC, Condi Clean, Block, Hold the ground ...
    What the point clean condi from someone and not have any profit/bonus and visible personal respect?

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    The priority how you play currently Healbreaker or Support Tempest is:

    1.CC
    2.Condi Clean
    3.Block
    4.Hold the ground
    5.Heal

    the 1 2 3 4 is not displayed in top stats pvp result so you not het any one more 1 pip for that.
    any amount of top stats will earn 1 pip, but this is not CC, Condi Clean, Block, Hold the ground ...
    What the point clean condi from someone and not have any profit/bonus and visible personal respect?

    You know, people should Not care about top stats, because they are not worth mentioning outside of deaths

    At least I care for a healthy gamestate

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:
    The priority how you play currently Healbreaker or Support Tempest is:

    1.CC
    2.Condi Clean
    3.Block
    4.Hold the ground
    5.Heal

    the 1 2 3 4 is not displayed in top stats pvp result so you not het any one more 1 pip for that.
    any amount of top stats will earn 1 pip, but this is not CC, Condi Clean, Block, Hold the ground ...
    What the point clean condi from someone and not have any profit/bonus and visible personal respect?

    It is what you do to win a round you got more pips when you win a round...
    Also holding a control point can give you top defender

    Like I said I don't like this . The reason why I'm play Healbreaker has mostly to do that when you have one and you are good with it your win chance just increase or get balanced when the other side has already one. Most MMOish games have this kind of support which became a mandatory aspect actually in other games you have also split the roles of heal and tank . The way we going now is more like Neverwinter where you can do as support both dmg and heal&boons . So a better way would be changing the Mender amulet where the vitality and toughness will be replaced either (with more heal and concentration) or (with power and precession) - Or doing both with separated amulets.

    I must also say if they don't increase the heal also a bit in a possible hybrid amulet people won't choose it.

    The is also a deeper problems with how classes match up in sPvP you can do all kinds of tricks e.g I'm queuing as mesmer because the class is screw over by Arena.NET, when I'm in and there is no condi clean I go for this when not I play as my non meta condi Tempest which got properly a indirect boost through this patch.

    I'm doing this only this season to prove a point last 5v5 season I ended around silver3/gold1 my target is platin 2 again. Well I'm really low rank now because of 4 loses at the beginning of my placement but my winrate after this is really good

  • HeadCrowned.6834HeadCrowned.6834 Member ✭✭✭

    At some point you will have to stop removing amulets xD. If you gonna remove mender, think about specs that rely on healing power in order to work (druid theoretically).

    Problem with support specs in GW2 could be that they do too much at the same time. Healing, boons, damage mitigation (projectile blocks and stuff), condi cleanse and rezzes. Rather give them good access to for example 2 of these things and tone down the rest. This could also create the opportunity for multiple support specs to be somewhat equally viable instead of always 1 being superior.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 24, 2021

    Another tweaking patch within weeks??? ((surprised pikachu face))
    I mean, actual mechanics changes would be nice but i am well aware that those things take more time to implement and to test (not to mention incoming xpac) so i am thankful for such unusually frequent updates.
    For once things are addressed that actually did need to be looked at given current state of the game. And i am positively surprised that the bot build is also on the agenda.
    Overall thank you.

    @Clownmug.8357 said:
    lol at 12 second CD on Phase Traversal. Thief players that complained about Infiltrator's Arrow please take note, this is what real suffering looks like.

    You can come back when Phase Traversal drains your entire energy, grants no boons, fails due to no valid path bug, has less range and deals no damage.

    Meh~