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3/23 PvP Balance

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  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    Give the Revs the old Sword 2 (straight line , single target , pierce ) and make it so it does 10% Remaining HP damage per hit , if you have Assasin or Berseker Amulet . Or Rev Speciallized Amulet , with less stats , but increase the effect of 1 major attack to avoid . And a UI icon in the Bar , so we can see which attack it is .
    Second Amulet with even less stats >>2 attack to worry about
    The same to , Reaper + Core , Shroud 4 .
    Both have the most counter-play in all the game - are Slow

    They would be easily be hunted by Thieves and Mesmers and any other high mobility from the next expansion (necro or ranger? which is the boring-est bunker and its better to run ?)

    edit2: Or the Map have resources >> Increase the effect of Sword 2 , 10 sec cd , 2 charges
    If there are more Revs and all use Sword 2 , than the resource can restore , they dont benefit from the bonus .
    Or the bonus map, can have 2 extra resources for each user , but when used they put the user in combat>>cannot benefit from out of combat speed for 3 min

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @otto.5684 said:
    I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

    Btw, have you ever played guardian in pve? I dunno how to tell you this, but condi DH is not remotely viable. The fact that it is the prominent guardian build is condi DH using a kitten troll rune, says it all in terms of how much kitten the values damage and sustain in spvp are. How is this not a clear trigger that something is so kitten wrong in the game’s balance system?!

    I want to be constructive, but a year after you burned the old spvp system to the ground, you are telling me the new system is not working well, and resulted in a slow kitten bunkerish hell game play, which is exactly what veteran players told you will happen. And your solution is to do continue nerfing and removing things. Do you know the the definition of insanity?

    Yep. And some of us knew it would come down to this over 2 years ago and that the problems will only get worse and worse to the point where the game will be stick wars 2. Their balance strategy has always been flawed, and almost nobody has the foresight to see that...

    Some folks believe that this transfusion sigil rework, which is the smartest thing they will have done in the past 2 years, will give us hope...

    Problem is...does anyone here truly believe that they will make transfusion good enough to actually do meaningful support?

    I bet any money, that they will change it from 10% to 15% Outgoing Healing, and call it a day.

    They need to STOP talking to the knuckleheads in discord, pull their eyes away from MAT's and they need to do some hardcore mathematical and scientific research on how to balance games...because this "nerf everything" business is not how to balance a game, and these kids CMC is talking to don't have a clue.

  • Loboling.5293Loboling.5293 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

  • mixxed.5862mixxed.5862 Member ✭✭✭

    @XxsdgxX.8109 said:
    Is this no longer an MMO? If so, why do you keep removing amulets? What is even the point of an attribute system anymore?

    SPvP isn't an MMO. It's a conquest game mode that requires good balancing to make it fun.
    But currently it plays like a boring game of standing on node. No fast-paced rotations, no momentum plays, just try and bog down the game - that's the winning strategy. Mender's plays a big part in that. Straight up removing it is sensible if you offer new options to keep support builds viable.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    I miss Johnathan Sharp , and Josh Peters. :anguished: Also how can you forget Josh Davis aka Grouch, he was sort of a pillar to the Spvp community back then too. A moment of silence for remembrance of the Devs that left the game. :sadpepe:

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi everyone,

    Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

    Condition Guardian Variants

    • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

    Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

    Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

    Minion Necromancer

    • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
    • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

    We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

    Support Core Guardian

    • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
    • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
    • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
    • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

    Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

    Ventari Revenant

    • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
    • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

    Shiro Renegade

    • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

    Power Herald

    • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.
    We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

    Looking Ahead
    The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

    Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

    To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

    That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

    -The Systems Team

    I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

    Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

    You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi everyone,

    Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

    Condition Guardian Variants

    • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

    Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

    Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

    Minion Necromancer

    • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
    • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

    We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

    Support Core Guardian

    • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
    • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
    • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
    • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

    Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

    Ventari Revenant

    • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
    • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

    Shiro Renegade

    • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

    Power Herald

    • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.
    We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

    Looking Ahead
    The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

    Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

    To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

    That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

    -The Systems Team

    I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

    Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

    You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

    Who is actually having fun?
    Certainly not those using low HP professions that need to juggle between dmg, HP and sustain. It easy to talk when the profession you love to play does not relies on stats to be competitive when you don't have access to stealth and fancy blocks, 1200 range teleport and ranged weapon swap. Yeah I can jump on ranger or necro and who gives a kitten about stats, am I right?

    They should have designed the game accordingly to their current balance ideology.

    If you want curb to the ground anything healing power related...be my guest but then they MUST re-evaluate the elementalist as it was designed with such deficiencies as a result of the healing to allies ability and with that gone...there would be no justification for a lot of stuff...keep that in mind

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi everyone,

    Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

    Condition Guardian Variants

    • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

    Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

    Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

    Minion Necromancer

    • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
    • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

    We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

    Support Core Guardian

    • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
    • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
    • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
    • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

    Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

    Ventari Revenant

    • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
    • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

    Shiro Renegade

    • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

    Power Herald

    • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.
    We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

    Looking Ahead
    The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

    Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

    To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

    That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

    -The Systems Team

    I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

    Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

    Uh, they did a few things to healing/sustain. It just wasnt enough because of powerdip.

    You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

    Actually, how it used to be is better.

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

    All it does is make powerdip as bad as it is. Which is to say, leading to a glacial pace in which no one ever dies without being outnumbered, and an utterly skillless gameplay loop.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

    Exactly incorrect. It used to be possible to play (almost) whatever you want before. Now its absolutely impossible. Build diversity went down across the board. Also its funny you talk kitten about WvW when WvW is much more enjoyable than PvP, just for the simple reason that they only did one bad change to it with the february megapatch, rather than constantly doubling down on the powerdip. At this point I just hope they never do a single balance change to WvW until they finally acknowledge that the february patch was a mistake.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

  • RedAvenged.5217RedAvenged.5217 Member ✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    I’d overwhelmingly would agree, personally, that the ‘feb’ patch was the worst ever. Making stuff useless has not made anything more fun yet and that’s what the patch did in addition to a power dip.

    I also noticed that a lot of people came back to the game for this patch and every single one said it was the worst patch ever and all the experienced players generally agree it was terrible.
    Note: that just what I noticed among people I know and see which would be basically all high level competitive players on Na and whomever I know from Eu on discord.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    We had a few polls, from around the time, and a fair bit later. At the time it was something like 55-45 in favour of pre-patch meta, a few months later it was 66-33 in favour of pre-patch meta. I'll see if I can track them down. But no, its actually a silent majority thats against it, and a vocal minority in favour of it.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Again, because of the polls we had. And the pace right now is glacial, if you don't get a +1, neither dies, thats boring as hell.

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    @RedAvenged.5217 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    I’d overwhelmingly would agree, personally, that the ‘feb’ patch was the worst ever. Making stuff useless has not made anything more fun yet and that’s what the patch did in addition to a power dip.

    I also noticed that a lot of people came back to the game for this patch and every single one said it was the worst patch ever and all the experienced players generally agree it was terrible.
    Note: that just what I noticed among people I know and see which would be basically all high level competitive players on Na and whomever I know from Eu on discord.

    Thanks for the info!

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Again, because of the polls we had. And the pace right now is glacial, if you don't get a +1, neither dies, thats boring as hell.

    Well thats not what i experiance so far, but maybe i am not good enough yet.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:
    It's time for people to realize that the more you nerf your counter...the more nerfs you will receive after

    ^This.

    There will always be a new meta. Always! What history has taught us so far is that once something becomes dominant it gets "tuned down". I am in favor of adjusting under used skills / builds so that they become competitive not vice versa. How balancing in this game works is horrible in my opinion. I think when people look at the patch notes they should be thinking "hey this update I'm going to try this, this, and this because this update made it interesting" not "oh look they nerfed the class / build I like to play" updates should not make people want to leave.

    It takes time to learn any class and to get your own style of play. So when things tend to go away so do the players playing them in most cases. So why is the player being punished? Was it the players fault that the build they were running was meta? Not really, sure they probably knew it was good but it was not their fault it was. Right now play is boring because its predictable. Its predictable because there is not a variety of builds that work in pvp. So instead of reducing the options they need to focus on making so many builds viable that it is hard to chose between them.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left. The february patch caused the largest drop in players in a while.

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    You're welcome.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    [ Over in the corner minding their business, playing on full glass amulets for damage and compensating for the lack of sustain with gimmick defenses and LoS ]

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

    As you already said :
    The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left
    The existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

    If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

    Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

    As you already said :
    The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left
    The existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

    If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

    Where are you getting 700 people from? Besides, they dont. Ask them closer, and you realise their idea of stealth is self-contradictory.

    Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

    They should choose what the players want. And the players clearly didnt want the february megapatch.

  • Captain Kuro.8937Captain Kuro.8937 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

    As you already said :
    The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left
    The existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

    If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

    Where are you getting 700 people from? Besides, they dont. Ask them closer, and you realise their idea of stealth is self-contradictory.

    Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

    They should choose what the players want. And the players clearly didnt want the february megapatch.

    So we agree :)
    Pre-Feb for PvP and do something about stealth in WvWvW .
    Now its up to CmC

    Overextending is bad , so on/off till November

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Cal Cohen.2358 said:
    Hi everyone,

    Today’s update included a handful of PvP balance changes and we wanted to share some context behind the decisions we’ve made to the Guardian, Necromancer, and Revenant professions. At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.

    Condition Guardian Variants

    • Permeating Wrath: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Eternal Armory: Reduced burning duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Sword of Justice: Reduced ammunition count from 3 to 2 in PvP only. Increased cooldown between skill uses from 1 second to 5 seconds in PvP only.

    Dragonhunter is the most prevalent version of condition Guardian, but Core also sees a fair amount of play with similar levels of success in the ranked environment. We’re starting with some adjustments to Permeating Wrath, Eternal Armory, and Sword of Justice to tone down the AoE burning pressure that both of these builds bring. Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

    Rune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.

    Minion Necromancer

    • Flesh of the Master: Reduced minion health bonus from 50% to 25% in PvP only.
    • Death Nova: Reduced power coefficient from 0.6 to 0.45 in PvP only.

    We made some small adjustments to minion builds last month, and we’re making a couple more today to bring it more inline. While it’s somewhat interesting how minionmancer matches up against some of the meta side-noders in higher tier play, from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta. Minionmancer has also been overperforming in ranked for quite a while, and as condition Guardians get brought down in power level we want to make sure that players can keep enemy minions in check - so we’re shaving down their overall health and slightly reducing the punishment of killing them in melee range.

    Support Core Guardian

    • "Stand Your Ground!": Increased cooldown from 45 seconds to 60 seconds in PvP only.
    • Pure of Heart: Reduced heal scaling from 0.3 to 0.15 in PvP only.
    • Virtue of Resolve: Reduced heal scaling from 1.4 to 1.0 in PvP only.
    • Shield of Judgment: Reduced protection duration from 4 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.

    Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

    Ventari Revenant

    • Energy Expulsion: Reduced knockback distance from 450 to 100 in PvP only.
    • Blinding Truths: This trait now has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Ventari Revenant is getting a similar adjustment to its knockback that we made to ranger greatsword - maintaining its crowd control while reducing the decap threat. We’re also taking this opportunity to clean up a troublesome interaction between the low cooldown Ventari heal and Blinding Truths by adding an internal cooldown. Lastly, Surge of the Mists is getting a slight cooldown increase as a general defensive shave across all revenant builds. There are some additional concerns about the overall bulk and sustain of the build even outside of its decap potential - we’ll touch a little more on our plans there near the end of the post.

    Shiro Renegade

    • Charged Mists: Reduced energy gain from 25 to 10 in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    Renegade has continued to perform well after the changes to its might generation, and we’re making a few follow-up adjustments. Charged Mists stands out as the trait that enables a lot of Renegade’s most powerful sequences while generally breaking the expectations of Revenant energy costs, and we want to bring it down a bit before further evaluating other key pieces of the build. We were considering whether 10 or 15 energy was the right number (or even some unusual numbers in the middle like 12), but we leaned a bit on the heavier side here while not touching too much else. It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes. Phase Traversal is getting a slight cooldown increase to reduce both the chase potential and overall map mobility of both Renegade and Herald.

    Power Herald

    • Infuse Light: Reduced duration of damage inversion effect from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP only.
    • Phase Traversal: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP only.
    • Surge of the Mists: Increased cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP only.

    In addition to the other general Revenant changes, Herald is also getting a minor adjustment to Infuse Light. Infuse Light is another case that we’re evaluating for a functional change, but in the meantime, we’re taking the opportunity to slightly reduce the duration as another shave to their defensive capabilities.
    We’re being a bit cautious with directly reducing Revenant damage (both here and with Renegade) while looking at speeding up the general pace of the meta.

    Looking Ahead
    The thing most notably missing from today’s update is Scourge. When today’s changes were being finalized internally, Mender Scourge was starting to show some strong results in automated tournaments, but it wasn’t too widely played yet. There was some consideration to whether it warranted early adjustments, but we usually like to gather more data (including reviewing future win rate statistics and observing gameplay) before acting. Ultimately, we decided against rushing anything in for today. Given what we’ve seen since then, it’s something that we want to address sooner rather than later and we’re currently looking into some adjustments for the next release.

    Something else that we’ve been evaluating is the state of Mender Amulet. The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see. Mender plays a big part in this, both through the strength of the bulkier support builds that have been meta recently (both Spellbreaker and now Core Guardian, compared to previous metas with Tempest) as well as the more sustain-oriented side node builds that tend to stalemate fights. The other main component of combat pacing is the amount of damage available. Looking back at something like pre-nerf grenade Holosmith, for all of the problems it had, it was very good at pushing damage and combating bunker play. We’re wary of bringing damage back up to that level and want to start with some adjustments to sustain before re-evaluating damage.

    To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets and adding an improved version of Sigil of Transference (increased outgoing healing) to make up some of the healing loss for support builds. This would also include a few adjustments for healing sources that are most heavily impacted by this shift (notable among those are Selfless Daring and Elemental Bastion, as well as Call of Valor which does not benefit from transference). Overall, some sources would heal allies for a bit more and some would heal for a bit less than they do with Mender, but the self-healing of support builds would be lower. Side node builds that currently play Mender would also be pushed into Avatar amulet, hopefully resulting in fewer stalemates and increased kill potential. We still want dedicated support builds to be a viable choice, and we’d be keeping a close eye on the impact of these changes going forward, but we think that given the current state of the game Mender creates more problems than it solves and it's worth looking at.

    That’s all for today. Thanks for reading, and we’ll see you in-game!

    -The Systems Team

    I just saw this and thought it was extremely funny. It is admission of failure on every level. “We removed all damage options from the game and it is now too bunkerish to the extent that people are playing decap builds.” Solution? Let’s nerf support builds and remove amulets. How did that work out in the past?

    Trying to prove what here exactly? You had quite the expectation to imagine the game would be super a-okay from the start of this balance. Let's completely ignore that nothing outside cooldowns were done to healing/sustain skills and that base health pools haven't changed (That's actually what goes above most people head.).

    You're overly confident into claiming like many that everything is wrong and nothing ever worked when we're not even at the final stage. As if you or anyone would know how the game should exactly be. (Certainly not like it used to be.)

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Having Health Pools to be identical as before keeps a consistent foundation within the game, it's not hard to figure out.

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Loboling.5293 said:
    This is painful to watch... I used to love this game, mostly for pvp and wvw, with the story chapters keeping me busy in between...

    I don't even know what to say, but I figured if I didn't even voice my complaint on this thread, I'd feel like I didn't even try to save my old favorite mmo.

    The pvp has gotten stale, wvw has gotten stale and the content releases have been awful... I'm sorry, I really liked a lot of the people working on this game, most of them are gone now anyway, but I still feel bad being so disappointed with a game I used to hail as the best.

    Gonna just leave a video from back when pvp was good, maybe the current devs can use it for inspiration to remember what made the twitch based pvp in gw2 so good.

    I wish I had some ideas how to get back there, but I don't know how to fix this anymore, it seems like the company has lost it's steam, but I do appreciate reaching out to the community like this. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother logging in to comment. I'd just be gone. Not coming back, but I hope things improve. If they can bring that intense feeling to pvp again, I'd come back at least for that. But there is no content I enjoy anymore in gw2 sadly.

    Great day and thanks for reaching out for feedback. At least, you are doing some good work by communicating with your players.

    Edit: I'm not saying season 2 was best at all, but I found this video and it reminded me of the old feeling I used to get in those intense twitch moments that turn games.

    In the beginning, Anet had two main experienced PvP devs : John Peter and Johnatan Sharp , both used feedback from official tournaments and streams with top players at the time....no amulet removals...no hammer nerfes...game was fun.

    Then those two devs left and for a good time Anet didn't have a solid direction for PvP.......it was then than Anet made the grave mistake of considering forum feedback, that opened the flood gates for the whiners with removal and hard nerf requests.

    GW2 had a decent PvP at the time because the devs then were not afraid to speak the truth: GIT GUD and L2P, once John Peter literally told some players to l2p on stream, that's the kind of devs you need for a healthy game balance, you don't and I repeat you do not balance the game around the low common denominator.

    Every major patch since that time is a consequence of the previous balance shift

    As if people didn't just play whatever the meta gave them. It's possible to play w/e you wish now, not something we could before. We didn't have meaningful skill splits nor was there any reason to keep stats combo's that would create more problems, you can easily tell from WvW how toxic and overly used some stats are, grateful they don't exist or were removed from PvP so we can actually have fun.

    You do realise the Feb 2020 patch was 14 month ago. Is the overhaul a 5 year process?! You understand that when the Feb patch was made it was supposed to be a final product not a rough “alpha” with the final product coming years later.
    And if the devs don’t know the consequences of the changes they put forth, and have to wait for month of players testing, this is an admission of failure.

    I am an accountant. If I file your tax return and tell you let us wait and see how the IRS responds, I would be out of business soon.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Captain Kuro.8937 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Boy, we wanted bringing down damage was the goal, it was done. Clearly we have to bring the latter of healing as well because SHOCKER they've took a step by step process to make sure they're not nerfing anything for no reason. It shouldn't come off as a surprise that untouched stuff (Healing/Sustain skills + Healing Power) is overdoing it, however that we're complaining about the removal of amulets when nobody is using Sage/Avatar is a pretty sad fact. Maybe you should get over there and nerf every single healing skills in the game that over perform one by one so that Mender/Marshal's never OP but the Sage/Avatar are even more useless.

    Who is "we"? Its certainly not the playerbase, given how overwhelmingly negative the reception of the february megapatch ended up being. For that matter, there was no "untouched" stuff, it just turns out when you lower damage by a lot, healing of any kind is going to be too good. Especially if you keep doubling down on powerdip and nerfing more and more damage.

    Are there any statistics of how many people approve and do not approve that patch, because it looks like you believe that everybody dont like the February patch but i have seen many which actually do. I dont think a vocal minority on forums is representing the whole pvp cominutity.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying is it good or bad since i dont know what was it before that mega patch, but in terms of combat pace i really enjoy it at the moment, i am just curious why are you so curtain that none approve the February patch?

    Didnt people asked for damage lowering down since people were dying too fast ?

    Alright, didnt find the one from right around that patch, but here is one from June: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/107420/do-you-find-the-game-more-fun-to-play-now-or-before-revamp/p1
    58% in favour of pre-patch.

    And one from November: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/118841/how-about-we-get-the-pre-february-meta-back-and-call-it-a-day

    63% in favour ofpre-patch.

    Thank you for the links and the info

    It would be nice if more people voted there since i think that is too small portion of the pvp player base

    To a degree, yes. They asked for slightly lower damage. They didnt ask for powerdip like we got. And even then, people asked for lower damage on specific builds, not across the board.

    I understand what you mean, thanks again for the info!

    They should nerf stealth across across all classes in WvWvW . Every few months , it attracts numerous amount of conversations and Views (more than the entire pvp population , lol)

    Which has turned out to be the vocal minority. Stealth already isnt particularly good, nowadays you barely see thieves, its all holos and all kinds of necros and rangers.

    As you already said :
    The forums always will be a small portion. But, well, if you want to see what the people not on the forum thought, well, just consider most of them left
    The existance of such mechanics caused the largest drop in WvWvW players in a while.

    If 63% wants the Pre-Feb patch and 700 people wants the Stealth to behave as other games , then by nerfing the stealth in WvW and increase the damage in PvP , it will lead in a Win-Win situation for the game

    Where are you getting 700 people from? Besides, they dont. Ask them closer, and you realise their idea of stealth is self-contradictory.

    Whatever the forums chooses , so the company should follow , right ? :)

    They should choose what the players want. And the players clearly didnt want the february megapatch.

    So we agree :)
    Pre-Feb for PvP and do something about stealth in WvWvW .
    Now its up to CmC

    No we don't. You will find not nearly as many players agree with your strange idea of stealth as you think. Simply rever the february megapatach and everything since, and thats it. Well maybe do something about the zerg meta in WvW, and the fact that some classes arent viable in it.

  • Strider.7849Strider.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    gotta think about the goal for balance. that's a hard one for WvW imo. there are so many differing opinions of how the game should be

    i would hate to see guardian nerfed in WvW just because it's popular, and to see the entire mode descend into pirate ships and clouds because melee push is no longer viable anymore.

    maybe I'm bias because I play warrior and like a melee push, I'm sure there are tons of deadeye and ranger players who would argue range cloud gameplay is ideal WvW. some players don't even like the idea of zergs, and think they shouldn't exist at all.

    i feel like what WvW should be is so much more debated than sPvP, that it's just so much harder to balance there. then you have small Vs large scale, customisable stats and all these things- and it just gets messy.

    Ranger main here. I would NOT want to see pirate ship meta return. Further I would not like to see this removal-of-everything balance brought to WvW. Real PvP shouldn't be about fighting 100% predictable opponents with low value/impact skills. WvW may have more numbers, but sPvP is more of a zerg spam fest as a result of these changes.

    Even with tons of variety/options/food in WvW, there is no one build beats all. sPvP is in such a joke state right now it went from previously boring to watch to now including boring to play. I hope you hamsters keep running on your wheels thinking your whack-a-wall sPvP makes you good players.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider.7849 said:

    @choovanski.5462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    1) Thank you for all your hard work. While not all of us agree with some of the decisions your team has made the effort is appreciated especially given Covid times.
    2) Can there be some targeted buffs next round coughs in warrior?
    3) Can there be some WvW love as well instead of just PvP balances (both nerfs and buffs)?

    Assuming they keep the same approach of using stats and gameplay data, consider zerg gameplay primarily...and preferably ignore all the forum drama, first considering that 2/5 of a zerg is firebrand...2/4 is scrappers and 1/4 is scourge/reapers, the first balance efforts should be directed at that...rest can follow

    gotta think about the goal for balance. that's a hard one for WvW imo. there are so many differing opinions of how the game should be

    i would hate to see guardian nerfed in WvW just because it's popular, and to see the entire mode descend into pirate ships and clouds because melee push is no longer viable anymore.

    maybe I'm bias because I play warrior and like a melee push, I'm sure there are tons of deadeye and ranger players who would argue range cloud gameplay is ideal WvW. some players don't even like the idea of zergs, and think they shouldn't exist at all.

    i feel like what WvW should be is so much more debated than sPvP, that it's just so much harder to balance there. then you have small Vs large scale, customisable stats and all these things- and it just gets messy.

    Ranger main here. I would NOT want to see pirate ship meta return. Further I would not like to see this removal-of-everything balance brought to WvW. Real PvP shouldn't be about fighting 100% predictable opponents with low value/impact skills. WvW may have more numbers, but sPvP is more of a zerg spam fest as a result of these changes.

    Even with tons of variety/options/food in WvW, there is no one build beats all. sPvP is in such a joke state right now it went from previously boring to watch to now including boring to play. I hope you hamsters keep running on your wheels thinking your whack-a-wall sPvP makes you good players.

    Yeah...cut the legs and arms of the opponent then proceed to beat the kitten out of him...main purpose of nerf requests is to turn challenges into free wins...hope it stays limited to pvp

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @otto.5684 said:

    You do realise the Feb 2020 patch was 14 month ago. Is the overhaul a 5 year process?! You understand that when the Feb patch was made it was supposed to be a final product not a rough “alpha” with the final product coming years later.
    And if the devs don’t know the consequences of the changes they put forth, and have to wait for month of players testing, this is an admission of failure.

    I am an accountant. If I file your tax return and tell you let us wait and see how the IRS responds, I would be out of business soon.

    I can not express my dissapoint properly at anet at there lack of pvp updates/managment since feb of 2020 update.
    This guy has a nice example of it.