Requesting a brief update on roaming meta. — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Requesting a brief update on roaming meta.

mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
edited March 25, 2021 in WvW

Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

Thx.

Comments

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ^
    Missed a year of stagnation and loss, tis all

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    lots of balance changes in the meantime. I guess all in spvp then?

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    lots of balance changes in the meantime. I guess all in spvp then?

    There's been decent chunk of pvp changes. As for WvW, you could count the number of WvW balances changes made in the past year on 1 hand

    WHAT?!? Did you expect something special would be written here

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @K THEN.5162 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    lots of balance changes in the meantime. I guess all in spvp then?

    There's been decent chunk of pvp changes. As for WvW, you could count the number of WvW balances changes made in the past year on 1 hand

    k good to know. all is the same then. thx. I won't be playing spvp, couldnt be any less interested.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eh, play on what you want to play on and look up a roaming build online if you can't come up with one.
    Thief/Ranger/Engi/Mes, er anything with above-par mobility really are your best options, but a decent player will farm more bags on a profession they're familiar with than a bad thief or ranger.

    You could play condi soulbeast, but if you're going to go condi, ancient seeds on Druid to lock people into those traps you drop is hard to pass up. If you prefer the playstyle of soulbeast, I'd suggest power.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    Wait a minute. I constantly read here about "condition is soooo strong, nerf pls" and there isn't even a top 3 condi build for roaming? Consider me totally surprised.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Wait a minute. I constantly read here about "condition is soooo strong, nerf pls" and there isn't even a top 3 condi build for roaming? Consider me totally surprised.

    things like condi scourge can be a serious threat no doubt, but they are vulnerable to CC and can be focused down in that way. the main problem with condi is that they are very tanky because of trailblazer or dire stats. but if scourge doesn’t have a support with them, enemy can cleanse condis and get bombed quite quickly if 2 ppl focus.

    however tbf, you can make a lot of builds viable by running support tempest, scrapper or FB as support is currently massively overtuned for small fights.

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    Biggest change I can think of is that you can't roam with Banners anymore, they're now tied to the structure you get them from and unequip if you cross the boarder which is great but as far as classes I think roaming is pretty much the same.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Wait a minute. I constantly read here about "condition is soooo strong, nerf pls" and there isn't even a top 3 condi build for roaming? Consider me totally surprised.

    things like condi scourge can be a serious threat no doubt, but they are vulnerable to CC and can be focused down in that way. the main problem with condi is that they are very tanky because of trailblazer or dire stats. but if scourge doesn’t have a support with them, enemy can cleanse condis and get bombed quite quickly if 2 ppl focus.

    however tbf, you can make a lot of builds viable by running support tempest, scrapper or FB as support is currently massively overtuned for small fights.

    To be honest. No, they are more tanky of course, but not tanky at all. You still get above 6k from most power builds on high toughness. The whole "condi is op" topic is utterly stupid still because except for 1-2 builds that massively stack conditions with too few skills condition builds are completely dead.
    If you can't stack 8+ stacks of burning or torment it will be cleansed before it really gets bad.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Wait a minute. I constantly read here about "condition is soooo strong, nerf pls" and there isn't even a top 3 condi build for roaming? Consider me totally surprised.

    things like condi scourge can be a serious threat no doubt, but they are vulnerable to CC and can be focused down in that way. the main problem with condi is that they are very tanky because of trailblazer or dire stats. but if scourge doesn’t have a support with them, enemy can cleanse condis and get bombed quite quickly if 2 ppl focus.

    however tbf, you can make a lot of builds viable by running support tempest, scrapper or FB as support is currently massively overtuned for small fights.

    To be honest. No, they are more tanky of course, but not tanky at all. You still get above 6k from most power builds on high toughness. The whole "condi is op" topic is utterly stupid still because except for 1-2 builds that massively stack conditions with too few skills condition builds are completely dead.
    If you can't stack 8+ stacks of burning or torment it will be cleansed before it really gets bad.

    they have a lot of barrier. i run around on nearly a pure dmg setup and i hardly put a dent in a good scourge’s hp if they know how to time their barriers etc. it’s a rather long fight considering how much dmg i deal to other builds.

    i never said they are OP though. it’s only a select few builds, i’m just saying they are still a threat. cherald is good example too.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    that is my experience. just because you don’t see everyone run it doesn’t mean much. by this logic you’d think 90% of roamers were playing condi mirage before it got nerfed into oblivion..
    most players are bad. i don’t really care what they play lol

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    can someone answer my questions lol? 1. was answered.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 25, 2021

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    can someone answer my questions lol? 1. was answered.

    power and condi rev is fine. guardian has multiple viable builds power and burn.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    Yeah ...those 2-3 de and soulbeast surely make a difference killing that blue uplevel at 3am....good thing rest of the day is dominated by roaming parties of scrappers/tempest/firebrand/condi heralds and reaper/core necro

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    1.No it sucks, they removed pet swap for soulbeast, barely good vs uplevel during a pugfest...you will get zerged down and die these days on a condi bunker
    2.OP in normal hands, vastly so in experienced hands, pivotal part of gank parties
    3.Burn dh and burn core are in a great spot, core condi guard used to be zerg meta not too long ago before scrapper arrival

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    Yeah ...those 2-3 de and soulbeast surely make a difference killing that blue uplevel at 3am....good thing rest of the day is dominated by roaming parties of scrappers/tempest/firebrand/condi heralds and reaper/core necro

    Yeah all those minstrel pocket healer scrappers sure do devastating damage with grenades.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    1.No it sucks, they removed pet swap for soulbeast, barely good vs uplevel during a pugfest...you will get zerged down and die these days on a condi bunker
    2.OP in normal hands, vastly so in experienced hands, pivotal part of gank parties
    3.Burn dh and burn core are in a great spot, core condi guard used to be zerg meta not too long ago before scrapper arrival

    ranger should easily be able to beat condi revenants. if you play WS traitline you’re just farting cleanses left and right. especially with cleansing sigil which cleanses 3 condis. i beat them on my skirmishing build cus i run 2 cleanse sigils.

  • A lot of this is all kitten, the best roaming meta is a player that knows not only his class but the other classes as well, knowing the terrain is enormous plus. Not just where kitten is, but where to exploit for your classes abilities.

    Sure there is cheese out there, nade scrapper, dp/sa thief. But they can still be dealt with if you know how they play.

    The roaming meta is about awareness and skill.

    I play mirage when I roam, it’s no where near a meta build or class. I still bag all these guys running around daily.

  • @bigo.9037 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    that is my experience. just because you don’t see everyone run it doesn’t mean much. by this logic you’d think 90% of roamers were playing condi mirage before it got nerfed into oblivion..
    most players are bad. i don’t really care what they play lol

    I actually don't remember the last time I saw a nade scrapper roaming in wvw. You see a dozen holosmiths for every nade scrapper. Simple fact of the matter is that scrapper can't run from any engagement the way thief, mesmer, ranger can. You have to be willing to accept that you will die from time to time and not be able to ooc any losing fight you want. Most roamers can't handle that, so they don't play scrapper. If you don't factor compensation for fragile egos into your ranking, it isn't going to be accurate.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    You misspelled condiherald

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Make condiherald. Proceed to corpsejump your enemies, you can easily 1v2 or 1v3

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Make condiherald. Proceed to corpsejump your enemies, you can easily 1v2 or 1v3

    cherald is up there in 5th probably, it has no mobility can’t kite or escape. can’t do much vs stealth. loses to soulbeast and thief too, can’t comment on scrapper or holo but i think they are somewhat even.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    1.No it sucks, they removed pet swap for soulbeast, barely good vs uplevel during a pugfest...you will get zerged down and die these days on a condi bunker
    2.OP in normal hands, vastly so in experienced hands, pivotal part of gank parties
    3.Burn dh and burn core are in a great spot, core condi guard used to be zerg meta not too long ago before scrapper arrival

    ranger should easily be able to beat condi revenants. if you play WS traitline you’re just farting cleanses left and right. especially with cleansing sigil which cleanses 3 condis. i beat them on my skirmishing build cus i run 2 cleanse sigils.

    I was answering to the OP in regards to the roaming scene not considering what he can or cannot beat on his own, so I have assumed he wanted to know what are the most common roaming specs and about that....since his time in WvW things have changed greatly, solo roaming is mostly dead, not entirely but mostly so, and these days is all about ganking parties composed up scrappers healbot, tempest, reapers often but also firebrand, condi herads and holosmiths

    Which is why I suggest not to use condi soulbeast because he's most likely planning to use shortbow and these days you need mobility, stealth and burst to survive as solo roamers, sure you can win fights with a shortbow but what's the point in that when you get jumped on by 2-3 people a sec after?

    No to condi soulbeast as solo spec in 2021 and yes to shortbow druid for the much easier disengage, for anything else I only recommend power soulbeast as solo roamer

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyCanuck.4265 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    that is my experience. just because you don’t see everyone run it doesn’t mean much. by this logic you’d think 90% of roamers were playing condi mirage before it got nerfed into oblivion..
    most players are bad. i don’t really care what they play lol

    I actually don't remember the last time I saw a nade scrapper roaming in wvw. You see a dozen holosmiths for every nade scrapper. Simple fact of the matter is that scrapper can't run from any engagement the way thief, mesmer, ranger can. You have to be willing to accept that you will die from time to time and not be able to ooc any losing fight you want. Most roamers can't handle that, so they don't play scrapper. If you don't factor compensation for fragile egos into your ranking, it isn't going to be accurate.

    scrapper has lots of superspeed and projectile reflects, nothing can escape thief but who cares? soulbeast without bird can barely run from anything either unless you heavily outmaneuver them in stealth and escape that way. roaming encompasses 2v2 and 3v3 too, scrapper is really strong there.
    and it nukes things in 1v1 while having crazy sustain even without stealth.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Did it move up in the meta?

    Did we have it? This sis not speed run raid squad, you can take any stat and class, join pug blob or small party and get fun.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    Yeah ...those 2-3 de and soulbeast surely make a difference killing that blue uplevel at 3am....good thing rest of the day is dominated by roaming parties of scrappers/tempest/firebrand/condi heralds and reaper/core necro

    Yeah all those minstrel pocket healer scrappers sure do devastating damage with grenades.

    Pocket healer much?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021

    Norn soulbest in bearform hit +50k. When i see norn soulbest i ALT + F4. :#

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • @bigo.9037 said:

    @CrazyCanuck.4265 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    that is my experience. just because you don’t see everyone run it doesn’t mean much. by this logic you’d think 90% of roamers were playing condi mirage before it got nerfed into oblivion..
    most players are bad. i don’t really care what they play lol

    I actually don't remember the last time I saw a nade scrapper roaming in wvw. You see a dozen holosmiths for every nade scrapper. Simple fact of the matter is that scrapper can't run from any engagement the way thief, mesmer, ranger can. You have to be willing to accept that you will die from time to time and not be able to ooc any losing fight you want. Most roamers can't handle that, so they don't play scrapper. If you don't factor compensation for fragile egos into your ranking, it isn't going to be accurate.

    scrapper has lots of superspeed and projectile reflects, nothing can escape thief but who cares? soulbeast without bird can barely run from anything either unless you heavily outmaneuver them in stealth and escape that way. roaming encompasses 2v2 and 3v3 too, scrapper is really strong there.
    and it nukes things in 1v1 while having crazy sustain even without stealth.

    My post was not arguing nade scrapper isn't strong. It is very strong. It was questioning you ranking them as the number one roaming class in WvW when it is one of the least played dps specs in the game. 95% of the time you see a scrapper it is support, or occasionally flamethrower. It's lack of popularity despite how strong it is has to be tied to something...

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    These types of threads always devolve into: "My class no strong...yours is".....so to end once again this kind of thread: the class you play the best....it's the best roaming class , if a player sucks...he will sucks even if he plays the professions/spec deemed OP by the "forum council"

    You can roam and win on anything if you know what you're doing and what you're facing

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrazyCanuck.4265 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @CrazyCanuck.4265 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    that is my experience. just because you don’t see everyone run it doesn’t mean much. by this logic you’d think 90% of roamers were playing condi mirage before it got nerfed into oblivion..
    most players are bad. i don’t really care what they play lol

    I actually don't remember the last time I saw a nade scrapper roaming in wvw. You see a dozen holosmiths for every nade scrapper. Simple fact of the matter is that scrapper can't run from any engagement the way thief, mesmer, ranger can. You have to be willing to accept that you will die from time to time and not be able to ooc any losing fight you want. Most roamers can't handle that, so they don't play scrapper. If you don't factor compensation for fragile egos into your ranking, it isn't going to be accurate.

    scrapper has lots of superspeed and projectile reflects, nothing can escape thief but who cares? soulbeast without bird can barely run from anything either unless you heavily outmaneuver them in stealth and escape that way. roaming encompasses 2v2 and 3v3 too, scrapper is really strong there.
    and it nukes things in 1v1 while having crazy sustain even without stealth.

    My post was not arguing nade scrapper isn't strong. It is very strong. It was questioning you ranking them as the number one roaming class in WvW when it is one of the least played dps specs in the game. 95% of the time you see a scrapper it is support, or occasionally flamethrower. It's lack of popularity despite how strong it is has to be tied to something...

    before me and others started running bm nm soulbeast with gs lb for perma boons nobody gave much attention to soulbeast, then it became popular in wvw just before the big feb patch. condi mirage also wasn’t played by everyone. just because not everyone is running it doesn’t mean it isn’t strong. or even meta worthy. since roaming isn’t competitive game mode, a lot of players run suboptimal builds just because they can, because they’re fun.
    i do the same. all my friends do. most of the time the only players who seek out the very best builds and swap class just to play the best specs are either not very good, or are just trying to learn the ins and outs of a class they aren’t completely familiar with.

  • @K THEN.5162 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    lots of balance changes in the meantime. I guess all in spvp then?

    There's been decent chunk of pvp changes. As for WvW, you could count the number of WvW balances changes made in the past year on 1 hand

    You can count them without either hands.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021

    @moutzaheadin.4029 said:
    A lot of this is all kitten, the best roaming meta is a player that knows not only his class but the other classes as well, knowing the terrain is enormous plus. Not just where kitten is, but where to exploit for your classes abilities.

    Sure there is cheese out there, nade scrapper, dp/sa thief. But they can still be dealt with if you know how they play.

    The roaming meta is about awareness and skill.

    I play mirage when I roam, it’s no where near a meta build or class. I still bag all these guys running around daily.

    This isn't helpful. Everyone knows this. I'm just trying to get an idea about any major balance changes over the last year. Although few balance changes occurred, it seems that solo roaming is dead-er than it was. So i'll be looking to organize a slippery gank squad with a few friends.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 26, 2021

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    1.No it sucks, they removed pet swap for soulbeast, barely good vs uplevel during a pugfest...you will get zerged down and die these days on a condi bunker
    2.OP in normal hands, vastly so in experienced hands, pivotal part of gank parties
    3.Burn dh and burn core are in a great spot, core condi guard used to be zerg meta not too long ago before scrapper arrival

    ranger should easily be able to beat condi revenants. if you play WS traitline you’re just farting cleanses left and right. especially with cleansing sigil which cleanses 3 condis. i beat them on my skirmishing build cus i run 2 cleanse sigils.

    I was answering to the OP in regards to the roaming scene not considering what he can or cannot beat on his own, so I have assumed he wanted to know what are the most common roaming specs and about that....since his time in WvW things have changed greatly, solo roaming is mostly dead, not entirely but mostly so, and these days is all about ganking parties composed up scrappers healbot, tempest, reapers often but also firebrand, condi herads and holosmiths

    Which is why I suggest not to use condi soulbeast because he's most likely planning to use shortbow and these days you need mobility, stealth and burst to survive as solo roamers, sure you can win fights with a shortbow but what's the point in that when you get jumped on by 2-3 people a sec after?

    No to condi soulbeast as solo spec in 2021 and yes to shortbow druid for the much easier disengage, for anything else I only recommend power soulbeast as solo roamer

    Thanks, this is just what I was looking for.

    Just farmed some people in 1vX skirmishes on my Dire/apothecary Soulbeast last night. You have disengage with any bird pet, and I usually roll with Owl. It certainly has more disengage than any guard or necro build. It's as strong as it was a year ago and crushes all of those meta roaming specs u mentioned, mostly due to the immob spam and spammable condi bombs.

    To your point, any 1v4 gets way too unmanageable so I am building a condi immob Druid. I realized ANet only gutted druids in spvp, but in WvW it feels like an actual class. I think this is my #1 choice for roaming with my friends.

    I imagine Malyx/Herald is probably still a menace because it only got gutted in spvp as well.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:
    thief is still nr 1, followed by power nades scrapper and power soulbeast in nr 3.
    everything else is pretty even though afaik.

    actually let me elaborate on this it’s a little bit more complicated.

    nades scrapper is probably nr1 for roaming in small groups as it brings direct support with projectile blocks vs rangers, it also has gyro and i think can easily be equipped to res and stomp more easily, on top of the nutters damage that nades do.

    soulbeast shares spot nr 2 with thief as it has a ton of single target burst dmg with decent sustain unless enemy is running reveal or has boon strip which is why thief counters soulbeast.

    thief is nr 2 even though it doesn’t have the insane single target burst as soulbeast or the very high aoe damage as nades scrapper, and it is usually forced to play somewhat defensive but it is very good at keeping consistent pressure on a target with unblockable steal + boon rip and other cc, without being able to get focused down as they have too many ways to avoid getting pressured themselves because of evades and stealth. thief does win 1v1 against pretty much everything though. also bonus points for being able to leave pretty much any fight they want cus of stealth and mobility.

    And to further elaborate on that, for every nade scrapper there is at least 20 daredevils and 30 soulbeasts so being number 1 is clearly relative.

    Yeah ...those 2-3 de and soulbeast surely make a difference killing that blue uplevel at 3am....good thing rest of the day is dominated by roaming parties of scrappers/tempest/firebrand/condi heralds and reaper/core necro

    Yeah all those minstrel pocket healer scrappers sure do devastating damage with grenades.

    Yea I sometimes will fail to change equipment templates and try to grenade burst people in their face to less than spectacular results.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    Still afk repairing walls since 2017.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?

    No.
    It was never a meta roamer and it's still bad. Low Condition application and dependency on Traps, Skirmishing and weapons like Axe, Torch, and Dagger mean you sacrifice most of your defensive options and mobility to have only moderate damage.
    Condition is best used as a Druid because Ancient Seeds carries it against literally anything besides Thief. Equip Shortbow, Entangle, and Iboga and/or Jacaranda and you can face->keyboard. That doesn't mean it's OP either mind you, as it's still vulnerable in similar ways to core or Soulbeast. Just that it's much harder to deal with.

    1. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?

    Call to Anguish had its radius increased which makes it a little easier to pull people in, otherwise it hasn't changed. It's still good against the average player.
    Anything with high mobility and moderate cleanse played by someone who knows what they're doing will make quick work of it, but it's still very low risk and counters any melee dependent or low mobility builds.
    Boonhate and the general nature of it being painful to be in the vicinity of make it a very good small scale build though. It may not do as well in some 1v1's assuming the opponent is decent, but in all small group fights it'll be very strong, especially with Tormenting runes which will give you huge sustain the more targets you have.

    1. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Burn Guard is meme-y, I don't recommend it unless you're playing in a larger group. It tends be strongest between 10 and 15 players where it's less likely to get constantly cleansed, but more likely to cleave people out with SoJ and Purging Flames.
    In smaller groups and solo it's too easy to deal with unless who you're playing with have enough CC's or cover Conditions to compliment you.
    Power Guard is good in 1v1's and decent in small groups, but not great. If you want to play Guard for roaming I recommend pretty much anything DH as it's in a similar boat to CHerald- low risk, noob stomper, good group utility, and still dangerous against better players. Power Firebrand is also quite good, although uncommon and difficult to play. It has a lot of multi-hits and tends to behave similarly to something like Flamethrower Engi in that it doesn't do a whole lot of damage with a couple hits so people will try to tank it and get deleted when everything lands. It's a "okay this doesn't hurt mu-HOLY F" thing.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?

    No.
    It was never a meta roamer and it's still bad. Low Condition application and dependency on Traps, Skirmishing and weapons like Axe, Torch, and Dagger mean you sacrifice most of your defensive options and mobility to have only moderate damage.
    Condition is best used as a Druid because Ancient Seeds carries it against literally anything besides Thief. Equip Shortbow, Entangle, and Iboga and/or Jacaranda and you can face->keyboard. That doesn't mean it's OP either mind you, as it's still vulnerable in similar ways to core or Soulbeast. Just that it's much harder to deal with.

    1. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?

    Call to Anguish had its radius increased which makes it a little easier to pull people in, otherwise it hasn't changed. It's still good against the average player.
    Anything with high mobility and moderate cleanse played by someone who knows what they're doing will make quick work of it, but it's still very low risk and counters any melee dependent or low mobility builds.
    Boonhate and the general nature of it being painful to be in the vicinity of make it a very good small scale build though. It may not do as well in some 1v1's assuming the opponent is decent, but in all small group fights it'll be very strong, especially with Tormenting runes which will give you huge sustain the more targets you have.

    1. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Burn Guard is meme-y, I don't recommend it unless you're playing in a larger group. It tends be strongest between 10 and 15 players where it's less likely to get constantly cleansed, but more likely to cleave people out with SoJ and Purging Flames.
    In smaller groups and solo it's too easy to deal with unless who you're playing with have enough CC's or cover Conditions to compliment you.
    Power Guard is good in 1v1's and decent in small groups, but not great. If you want to play Guard for roaming I recommend pretty much anything DH as it's in a similar boat to CHerald- low risk, noob stomper, good group utility, and still dangerous against better players. Power Firebrand is also quite good, although uncommon and difficult to play. It has a lot of multi-hits and tends to behave similarly to something like Flamethrower Engi in that it doesn't do a whole lot of damage with a couple hits so people will try to tank it and get deleted when everything lands. It's a "okay this doesn't hurt mu-HOLY F" thing.

    Nice breakdown thanks man. I'll give a shot to the DH and power FB. I'm currently running the Immob Druid and it's a lot of fun. It has a lot of utility.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?

    nope, but they are basically unkillable against Power/condi classes, depending on which enemy you face

    1. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?

    it is still ok, but nothing overpowered or in a need of nerf

    1. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Guard builds can be ran everywhere. Burn/power dh/core or burn fb... everything is in solo/group/zerg fights viable

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @moutzaheadin.4029 said:
    A lot of this is all kitten, the best roaming meta is a player that knows not only his class but the other classes as well, knowing the terrain is enormous plus. Not just where kitten is, but where to exploit for your classes abilities.

    Sure there is cheese out there, nade scrapper, dp/sa thief. But they can still be dealt with if you know how they play.

    The roaming meta is about awareness and skill.

    I play mirage when I roam, it’s no where near a meta build or class. I still bag all these guys running around daily.

    This isn't helpful. Everyone knows this. I'm just trying to get an idea about any major balance changes over the last year. Although few balance changes occurred, it seems that solo roaming is dead-er than it was. So i'll be looking to organize a slippery gank squad with a few friends.

    I disappeared for a couple of years and came back a few months ago. The advice is pretty solid, even if experienced roamers know it anyway.

    I mostly solo roam, which can limit your options a bit. But I've seen solo roamers of just about every class doing well when they know their build and the builds they're facing. Running with 3-4 friends adds in the additional dimension of your group comp. Here I've seen every class have a place and do really well, including the builds you asked about (team support is great, aoe pressure is great, coordinated burst is great, etc, etc).

    Sounds like you have some experience with wvw, so just know the game hasn't changed so much that what you know is obsolete. If your group is organized and knows their stuff, you'll dominate most of the people out there, even if they're using the freshest and most overturned builds and you're not.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    Great that's all we need. Another gank group running around targeting solo players and dropping c a n c e r on them. That's perfectly healthy for wvw.

    Why would you assume s/he's doing that? Wvw has always had room for a lot of playstyles and different sized groups doing a range of things.

    Just yesterday I heard about a 12 person group running around ebg just flipping camps... and nothing else. I don't get it, but whatever floats their boat.

    You obv don't spend much time in wvw either that or youre always in a zerg.

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:

    @mistsim.2748 said:
    Back after about a year. just trying to get an idea of what's hot right now for small gang or outnumbered fights. Looking to roam with 3-4 friends.
    1. Before I left I was playing a condi bunker Soulbeast to great effect. Did it move up in the meta?
    2. Was Malyx rev roamer gutted, or still decent?
    3. Any decent roaming guard builds? Burn guard? Looking at this marauder core build - can I run that in small gangs as well or just zergs?

    Thx.

    Great that's all we need. Another gank group running around targeting solo players and dropping c a n c e r on them. That's perfectly healthy for wvw.

    Why would you assume s/he's doing that? Wvw has always had room for a lot of playstyles and different sized groups doing a range of things.

    Just yesterday I heard about a 12 person group running around ebg just flipping camps... and nothing else. I don't get it, but whatever floats their boat.

    You obv don't spend much time in wvw either that or youre always in a zerg.

    I almost exclusively solo roam, and have for the last eight years or so (with a couple year hiatus in the middle). So, now that we've established that you jump to conclusions, perhaps it's worth reconsidering your assumption about the OP.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)