WvW seasons and leaderboards — Guild Wars 2 Forums

WvW seasons and leaderboards

CrimeMaker.8612CrimeMaker.8612 Member ✭✭✭

I personally dislike Server links, I am all for the idea of literally just blow up all the servers and start new ones but there is one really good use that could be made of server links to bring that "old school competitiveness" back to WvW.
Every 2 months there are server links. Arena Net why haven't you thought of starting a WvW season every 2 months with the new links?

*Since past 6 months or so, new rewards were introduced to WvW via reward tracks, pip system, legendary backpiece and now also being able to get legendary armor from WvW as well. Good changes!
*Now when it comes to balance I am not expecting the WvW dev team to do anything about it because since it isn't their job and I don't want this post to be about balance.

~The one thing WvW currently lacks is competitiveness. There are some guilds that still exist who like to be competitive but most players just do not care because there is nothing for them to work towards or move up on like leaderboards.
~Previous WvW seasons were purely about PPT and which server comes first and back in the day when it came to winning seasons it was all just down to coverage. Whichever server had the most coverage that server will win. Players and guild pulled a lot of time during those seasons PPTing and trying to win which lead them to burn out and quit. Also with glicko system the tiers were always locked hence no server moving up or down.

-Server links its a game of shuffle which literally allows different servers to move up a tier or go down depending on how good or bad the links are.
-The 1up and 1down system allows even more shuffling servers allowing tier locks to breaks.
-Now if Arena Net introduces seasons with the server linking; basically new link = start of the new season. I think it will have positive effect on competitive side of WvW.
-There are not going to be tier locks = fighting different server each week = higher chance of winning rather than always loosing = people can still pull over time depending on the score and tier without having to burn themselves off.
-Seasons having new rewards and other things which will allow new players to enter WvW and possibilities of servers getting new commanders which most WvW servers do lack in the current state of the game.

+Leaderboards
*You cant make WvW competitive by just introducing seasons; you also need leaderboards.
*Have different kind of leaderboards because there are different styles to play WvW

-Leaderboard that keep tracks servers weekly wins and loses.
-Leaderboard that keep tracks of which server had the most weekly kills and season total.
-Leaderboard that keep tracks which server captured most camps/towers/keeps/ or which server upgraded other servers camps/towers/keeps the most.
Etc

Now the main thing I wanted to talk about.

Guild vs Guild
*We play a game called Guild wars 2, Guild Wars .. Arena Net so why not make it a thing with seasons..??
*Old players and new competitive players will definitely come into WvW.
*^Same goes for old and new guilds.
*GvG is one thing that hooked me to this game and it could be one amazing thing in this game if taken in the right direction with the right attitude.
*Arena Net has always denied the scene and always wanted it to die out or not be a thing at all but GIVE GvG SCENE A CHANCE AT LEAST!

-Introduce seasons with new links.
-Add a GvG leaderboards.
-Turn Obsidian Sanctum into instanced based map aka mega server Obsidian Sanctum.
-Make a website or place where guilds can sign up to take part in GvG. Arena Net this part can literally be done by GvG community. There are still players who would strongly you support and make a system for you where guilds can sign up and to keep track of guild Win / Loss ratio all you have to do is give us leaderboards.
-GvG scene is small right now but there are people who cast them! all we need is the tools! Give us the tools!

!Give us megaserver Obsidian Sanctum and GvG leaderboards!

MAKE WvW MORE COMPETITIVE PLEASE!.

Comments

  • Tbh, I can get behind this. I rewatched the old Blackgate Season 1 Champ video and it really hit home on how much slower and dead the game is guild wise. If you make the seasons w/ links it doesnt give people a reason to burn out, as there is always next season.

  • GvG is dead; died a few years ago and you know the "Guild Wars" refers to event prior to even GW1

  • Gw2 is casual game.

  • @Freydinand.1073 said:
    Gw2 is casual game.

    Please define PvP seasons. Please define WvW season that took place previously. Please define the massive GvG scene this game had. Please define amazing combat system this game has.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrimeMaker.8612 said:

    @Freydinand.1073 said:
    Gw2 is casual game.

    Please define PvP seasons. Please define WvW season that took place previously. Please define the massive GvG scene this game had. Please define amazing combat system this game has.

    PvP Seasons are still casual gaming tbf... I hardly play spvp, and I stayed in platinum (Second Highest division) for the entire season until I decided to stop doing it and decayed all the way to bronze.
    The WvW Seasons was Arena Net trying to make their casual semi-open world pvp look competitive, and it failed miserably for the lack of population balance. No wonder they were completely scratched.
    The "massive GvG scene" that is now dead was made by players, lived by the players, and died by the players. If a small crowd (Yes, the GvG'ers are a very small crowd compared to the whole of GW2 players) created their own game mode and called it competitive, it still don't change that the actual game is casual.
    The combat system of this game is becomming even more dumbed down with each passing day... Unless you are running some glass cannon build you'll be locked in a extremely long (and usually boring) fight due all the passive sustain currently in the game.

    GW2 is a casual game. You like it or not.

    Ferguson's Crossing Mithril Squire (Rank 5001) - PvP Phoenix (Rank 72) - 30k Achievement Points
    Exalted Kawagima, Calamis Fatima, Hanna Flintlocke, Suzuhara Suzuka, Sally Furious Ant, Sabetha Deadeye, Bjarl of Souls, Lilian Mistwalker, Kelvena Riverstream, Zallha Wildhunt

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    are their people who play this game serious like?

    if yes, then it is serious to some. as it is not serious to others.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrimeMaker.8612 said:
    Please define amazing combat system this game has.

    cough had cough

    As for the seasons, I've pitched my idea a few times before for one day tournaments starting from reset, running for the duration of the link to create a season. It would help lessen burn outs and keep scoring competitive each week, as it only takes place at reset for a day which is the biggest day for every server, rest of the week is regular wvw. It doesn't completely balance it out as certain servers still have good off hours coverage, but it's as close as you're going to get, and there's still the opportunity for overtime play as it's only one day and falls into the weekend.

    Heavy rewards don't need to be tied to winning either as most of your rewards now come from skirmish rewards, this would be more of battle for pride. Of course you can offer unique rewards for the seasons, especially if you're going to use leader boards to keep track of stuff, much like say Diablo3 season rewards which uses leader boards and achievements to build up the reward tree for that season, a title, or a mini pet, or glider or back pack skins, etc.

    As for GvG's, that's been dead for a while now, many of the the players scattered to other games and barely playing this one anymore. They probably would think the current combat system is a joke too. So not sure how much work Anet should put into this now, a leader board can easily be done by players in any case. The only thing that Anet really needs to do is make Obsidian Sanctum mega servered, basically hook it up to eotm instead of wvw, the arenas they have offered through guildhalls are garbage through two expansions.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    we should have tournaments again.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Arimas.3492Arimas.3492 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    It declined after the season was over when there weren't any more rewards to be gained. But if they did a new season every linking there would be no downtime at all and with the new rewards system they wouldn't need to do much. Maybe just bonus tickets for winning.

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arimas.3492 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    It declined after the season was over when there weren't any more rewards to be gained. But if they did a new season every linking there would be no downtime at all and with the new rewards system they wouldn't need to do much. Maybe just bonus tickets for winning.

    it PERMANENTLY declined after the tournament was over. Rewards for winning equals rewards for stacking which is what hurt WvW.

    Don't make me dig out the dev quote on tournaments.

  • Blodeuyn.2751Blodeuyn.2751 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2017

    Bonus tickets for winning = bandwagon time. At the very least it means rewarding servers that already dominate.

    We've seen the mess tournaments create, and I'm not willing to go through that again.

    Blodeuyn Tylwyth
    Quaggan OP [QOP], League of Extraordinary Siegers [LEXS]

  • @Blodeuyn.2751 said:
    Bonus tickets for winning = bandwagon time. At the very least it means rewarding servers that already dominate.

    We've seen the mess tournaments create, and I'm not willing to go through that again.

    Well said and what Anet has argued in the past. I agree, keep the tournaments out for good.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭

    Lets go, tournament hype. The strong shall prevail, the weak shall qq about past tournaments.

    Youre bad at this game if you dont enjoy competitive spirit! So your opinion doesnt matter! Its not even that long of a period and even your ex-WvW, now PvE guilds can become active in WvW again ;)

    Theres really no reason to not have a tournament if they just fix the transferring to winning server thingy.

    Ri Ba - WvW Commander/hard carry
    Making Desolation great again/Alt somewhere
    Diamond Legend

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Burnout lol sounds like wvw is a tough place to be...

  • Honestly people are talking bandwagon... With Arena Net putting servers to FULL pretty fast now and rarely opening them.. even if there is bandwagon it will only be to the linked servers. There are some linked servers which are Very high and close to being Full, there are High servers close to being Very high. The tournament leaderboards will actually bring more players to WvW not only to the Host servers but also to the linked servers. So i dont think bandwagon would be that big of an issue. People are bringing up these past issues are preventing anything fun to happen in WvW. Honestly learn from the past FIX THE ISSUES and bring the seasons back...

  • People are also saying that GvG scene is dead.. My guild literally had GvG at least 2 times since the past month we started raiding hell 1 week we had 4 GvGs... 1 GvG each night and we rally 4 nights. GvG scene just needs a boost to be honest. The biggest boost is Obsidian Sanctum going megaserver mode and Secondary boost is GvG leaderboards. Arena Net i know you arent going to fix Guild hall arenas and not even bother making them bigger... WHY NOT JUST GIVE US OBSIDIAN SANCTUM MEGASERVER???????

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It makes me chuckle to think there's been people on BG alllll this time, bored out of their skulls, waiting for that next tournament.

    It's coming guys, hold fast!

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    It makes me chuckle to think there's been people on BG alllll this time, bored out of their skulls, waiting for that next tournament.

    It's coming guys, hold fast!

    Lol. Though it's amazing how the ques pop so high with new WvW rewards etc. given the large PvE population, it wouldn't shock me if 5 maps were qued for a tourney that offered a new shiny. (Yes, OS would be qued too lol)

    Right now, between the new PvE content and some other factors, a lot of the consistent guilds aren't running. It's mainly the people from each guild running around mostly headless.

    Kinda fun actually. There will be one tag for the four maps that hops some.

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Power > Condition

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    I’m not arguing that wvw and “stuff” doesn’t need work, but nothing in the OP’s list does anything to address the core issues that players complained about pre, during and post tournaments...

    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    I’m not arguing that wvw and “stuff” doesn’t need work, but nothing in the OP’s list does anything to address the core issues that players complained about pre, during and post tournaments...

    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

    you forgot the period between the last tournament and linking, rewards and skirmish... there was even a considerable time between the last tournament and first expansion... Then we got that new abomination content called DBL and the rest is history

    Power > Condition

  • I do not know why people are being so negative about the idea of having tournaments again.. Hey maybe this time it will be fun with relinks, maybe less bandwagoning.. Also someone mention why would i want another tournament in this this garbage condi meta.. well do you have better idea or something to bring new players and old players back to WvW? I dont see the reason why there wont be players in WvW with constant running tournament with every link and 1up 1down system... Also with bringing better leaderboards.. Just think about it..

  • People are talking about how the server that will always will have better rewards and will create more bandwagon... Well who says have weekly rewards??? Have end of the tournament reward.. Also put the limit on how long you have to be part of the specific link to get any reward. The current Relinks are every 2month so basically 8 weeks; the limit could be 5 or 6 weeks.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think tournaments could be a lot of fun.

  • @Israel.7056 said:
    I think tournaments could be a lot of fun.

    You arent wrong.. and that is what exactly WvW community needs right now. Fun, casual yet competitive play and there is GvG leaderboards for the hardcore guilds and players..

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @CrimeMaker.8612 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    I think tournaments could be a lot of fun.

    You arent wrong.. and that is what exactly WvW community needs right now. Fun, casual yet competitive play and there is GvG leaderboards for the hardcore guilds and players..

    I think I even know how to get people to play:

    1.) New tournament specific achievements with some sort of larger meta achievement reward

    2.) Farmable WvW exclusive mount skins, perhaps tied to the achievements or perhaps just farmable with some new tournament currency.

    3.) Increased ticket caps (say double or triple the current cap) during tournament weeks which could be say 2 weeks out of every month so people get some time to relax in between tournaments.

  • @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Given the choice between

    • Working their hamsters to death and ending up with fewer WvW participants due to burnout versus
    • Doing nothing and suffering slow attrition,

    Then yes, nothing is better.


    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    I really liked tourneys. The first one was what motivated to play WvW at all and I ended up liking it, even so far as to joining a dedicated WvW guild and skirmishing regularly. That doesn't prevent me from understanding that they aren't necessarily good for the long-term health of the game mode.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Given the choice between

    • Working their hamsters to death and ending up with fewer WvW participants due to burnout versus
    • Doing nothing and suffering slow attrition,

    Then yes, nothing is better.


    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    I really liked tourneys. The first one was what motivated to play WvW at all and I ended up liking it, even so far as to joining a dedicated WvW guild and skirmishing regularly. That doesn't prevent me from understanding that they aren't necessarily good for the long-term health of the game mode.

    I see your point but there are players like me who are burning out of the mode because there is no competitiveness or the sense of "teamwork" anymore.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    If they were to do it with links, then lock the links, and lock ALL servers for the length of the tournament. This way, people can't bandwagon to a link either.

  • ThunderPanda.1872ThunderPanda.1872 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes, reason for winning and no varieties would become boring as kitten to anyone.

    The rewards weren't even all that great, but it was still able to generate so much excitement, dedication and competitions. PvP tournaments were child play in comparison.

    Nowadays with the new reward system and stuff, anet could always give another carrot on a stick for people to chase after in between tournament seasons. So people aren't left around doing nothing and getting bored.

    Power > Condition

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes and varieties would become boring as kitten.

    You made a blanket statement... “Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself!”... so we provided a clear response to it... Seriously, nobody is arguing that wvw doesn’t need work, but you stated “nothing”... and that’s not true. I don’t care about “between periods” venting, it’s pointless to discuss.

    A lot of “things” need major work before any new competitions can be on the table.

  • ThunderPanda.1872ThunderPanda.1872 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes and varieties would become boring as kitten.

    You made a blanket statement... “Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself!”... so we provided a clear response to it... Seriously, nobody is arguing that wvw doesn’t need work, but you stated “nothing”... and that’s not true. I don’t care about “between periods” venting, it’s pointless to discuss.

    A lot of “things” need major work before any new competitions can be on the table.

    You should care about that "between period" point. Please think for yourself why people get burned out from tournaments. Or you might as well be a parrot repeating "tournaments burns people out, so no to tournaments" just because that's what everyone says.

    and as for what you said about

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    Last tournament: October 2014.
    HoT Release: October 2015 - A whole kitten year -> and the great WvW update we waited an entire year turned out to be DBL.
    Updates in 2016? I don't know :confused: , nothing memorable... Maybe changing the hated DBL to 2 Alpine and 1 DBL?
    Now we're in year 2017. Linking, rewards and skirmishes (also linking, gliding) - all of them are updates in 2017.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

    This I agree, but so many people are already dismissing that WvW tournament should even return.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    Lag, PvE designed classes, skills and balance, population disparity, same old boring maps (and sure you can come up with more) - these already exist since launch, and none have been addressed, and likely won't be in any foreseeable future at this rate... But it's not like gameplay right now is completely entirely broken... Some balances will need to be addressed of course, but it should not take away the need to give us something that makes WvW (you know the core gameplay called competition?) actually meaningful

    Power > Condition

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes and varieties would become boring as kitten.

    You made a blanket statement... “Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself!”... so we provided a clear response to it... Seriously, nobody is arguing that wvw doesn’t need work, but you stated “nothing”... and that’s not true. I don’t care about “between periods” venting, it’s pointless to discuss.

    A lot of “things” need major work before any new competitions can be on the table.

    You should care about that "between period" point. Please think for yourself why people get burned out from tournaments. Or you might as well be a parrot repeating "tournaments burns people out, so no to tournaments" just because that's what everyone says.

    and as for what you said about

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    Last tournament: October 2014.
    HoT Release: October 2015 - A whole kitten year -> and the great WvW update we waited an entire year turned out to be DBL.
    Updates in 2016? I dunno, nothing memorable... Maybe changing the hated DBL to 2 Alpine and 1 DBL?
    Now we're in year 2017. Linking, rewards and skirmishes (also linking, gliding) - all of them are updates in 2017.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

    This I agree, but so many people are already dismissing that WvW tournament should even return.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    Lag, PvE designed classes, skills and balance, population disparity, same old boring maps (and sure you can come up with more) - these already exist since launch, and none have been addressed, and likely won't be in any foreseeable future at this rate... But it's not like gameplay right now is completely entirely broken... Some balances will need to be addressed of course, but it should not take away the need to give us something that makes WvW (you know the core gameplay called competition?) actually meaningful

    Nobody can change the past. It’s pointless to discuss the past. You, the devs, nor I... have a time machine to rework the past...

    I care about going forward... and things need work going forward if you want any type of healthy competition... It makes ZERO rational sense to host any competition at this point because of the unaddressed issues this mode faces.... Let that sink in a bit.

  • ThunderPanda.1872ThunderPanda.1872 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes and varieties would become boring as kitten.

    You made a blanket statement... “Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself!”... so we provided a clear response to it... Seriously, nobody is arguing that wvw doesn’t need work, but you stated “nothing”... and that’s not true. I don’t care about “between periods” venting, it’s pointless to discuss.

    A lot of “things” need major work before any new competitions can be on the table.

    You should care about that "between period" point. Please think for yourself why people get burned out from tournaments. Or you might as well be a parrot repeating "tournaments burns people out, so no to tournaments" just because that's what everyone says.

    and as for what you said about

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    Last tournament: October 2014.
    HoT Release: October 2015 - A whole kitten year -> and the great WvW update we waited an entire year turned out to be DBL.
    Updates in 2016? I dunno, nothing memorable... Maybe changing the hated DBL to 2 Alpine and 1 DBL?
    Now we're in year 2017. Linking, rewards and skirmishes (also linking, gliding) - all of them are updates in 2017.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

    This I agree, but so many people are already dismissing that WvW tournament should even return.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    Lag, PvE designed classes, skills and balance, population disparity, same old boring maps (and sure you can come up with more) - these already exist since launch, and none have been addressed, and likely won't be in any foreseeable future at this rate... But it's not like gameplay right now is completely entirely broken... Some balances will need to be addressed of course, but it should not take away the need to give us something that makes WvW (you know the core gameplay called competition?) actually meaningful

    Nobody can change the past. It’s pointless to discuss the past. You, the devs, nor I... have a time machine to rework the past...

    I care about going forward... and things need work going forward if you want any type of healthy competition... It makes ZERO rational sense to host any competition at this point because of the unaddressed issues this mode faces.... Let that sink in a bit.

    And so how are we (the people who wants to see some form of competition such as tournaments) not looking into the future? We are worried about whether any competition will ever return to the gamemode (even after addressing some major balance issues). Tournament claim tickets were replaced with skirmish tickets, historian (the tournament merchant) was replaced with historian (the skirmish merchant). Repeated statements and the parrots repeating on how "People burned out from WvW after tournament", and e.t.c. All these new moves seem to indicate that anet no longer wish to run anymore tournaments.

    Just like server performance, population balance, skill balance, and any unaddressed issues, a competition (such as tournament) is also in that same list of priority.

    Nobody here in this thread (so far), is cussing anet out for something in the past. So why should we pretend that everything in the past was irrelevant. Why don't you look and learn from the past and maybe that will help you look into your bright and grandiose future? You probably should let this sink in a bit.

    Power > Condition

  • @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Swagger.1459 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @ThunderPanda.1872 said:

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:
    ANet's data found that while participation skyrocketed during seasons/tourneys, people burnt out in greater numbers afterward. Between the arguments about server stacking and fair fights, alliances rising and falling, and some people discouraging newbies as being unhelpful, it seems to have been a short-term success and a long-term failure. (It's also a ton of work for them to setup.)

    As a result, they haven't been inclined to start a new one.

    Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself! - Yes, just like the huge content drought after the tournaments that completely saved the gamemode...!

    Of course, as others have pointed out, we haven't had "nothing."

    Yes. I said it. We had nothing in the period between end of season 2 and beginning of HoT expansion. Unless you consider those golem weeks and the addition of guild sieges something extremely significant for the length of that time period.

    But I still want to say that DBL mess was what truly killed the population, there was definitely something wrong when 100 people would rather queue for ebg than play on DBL

    Burnt out because of tournaments? More like burnt out because WvW had no variety, no meaning, no changes. After getting a taste of the excitement of tournaments and its adrenaline pumping competition, standard day-to-day WvW that got no changes and varieties would become boring as kitten.

    You made a blanket statement... “Yea, so lets have nothing, and population will save itself!”... so we provided a clear response to it... Seriously, nobody is arguing that wvw doesn’t need work, but you stated “nothing”... and that’s not true. I don’t care about “between periods” venting, it’s pointless to discuss.

    A lot of “things” need major work before any new competitions can be on the table.

    You should care about that "between period" point. Please think for yourself why people get burned out from tournaments. Or you might as well be a parrot repeating "tournaments burns people out, so no to tournaments" just because that's what everyone says.

    and as for what you said about

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    Linking, rewards and skirmishes are hardly “nothing”... and we were told clearly that participation has increased since those updates.

    Last tournament: October 2014.
    HoT Release: October 2015 - A whole kitten year -> and the great WvW update we waited an entire year turned out to be DBL.
    Updates in 2016? I dunno, nothing memorable... Maybe changing the hated DBL to 2 Alpine and 1 DBL?
    Now we're in year 2017. Linking, rewards and skirmishes (also linking, gliding) - all of them are updates in 2017.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    When fundamental issues are addressed, then I’m all for some type of war/campaign/tournament, but first things first...

    This I agree, but so many people are already dismissing that WvW tournament should even return.

    @Swagger.1459 said:
    You want a wvw tournament, or seasons, filled with super lag... pve designed classes, skills and balance... condition issues still not addressed... population balance disparities despite linking... same old boring maps... (and I’m sure I can come up with more)... ??? Yeah, sounds like a healthy base to host competitions on right?

    Lag, PvE designed classes, skills and balance, population disparity, same old boring maps (and sure you can come up with more) - these already exist since launch, and none have been addressed, and likely won't be in any foreseeable future at this rate... But it's not like gameplay right now is completely entirely broken... Some balances will need to be addressed of course, but it should not take away the need to give us something that makes WvW (you know the core gameplay called competition?) actually meaningful

    Nobody can change the past. It’s pointless to discuss the past. You, the devs, nor I... have a time machine to rework the past...

    I care about going forward... and things need work going forward if you want any type of healthy competition... It makes ZERO rational sense to host any competition at this point because of the unaddressed issues this mode faces.... Let that sink in a bit.

    Honestly the biggest problem right now is the population. The only time you see a boost in population is when there is a new patch for WvW which is every 6 months? And after that it just drains out... tournaments are going to be a good way to bring back old and introduce new players and especially if there is leaderboards attached to tournaments for the casual and competitive community.

  • atheria.2837atheria.2837 Member ✭✭✭

    @CrimeMaker.8612 said:
    I personally dislike Server links, I am all for the idea of literally just blow up all the servers and start new ones but there is one really good use that could be made of server links to bring that "old school competitiveness" back to WvW.
    Every 2 months there are server links. Arena Net why haven't you thought of starting a WvW season every 2 months with the new links?

    *Since past 6 months or so, new rewards were introduced to WvW via reward tracks, pip system, legendary backpiece and now also being able to get legendary armor from WvW as well. Good changes!
    *Now when it comes to balance I am not expecting the WvW dev team to do anything about it because since it isn't their job and I don't want this post to be about balance.

    ~The one thing WvW currently lacks is competitiveness. There are some guilds that still exist who like to be competitive but most players just do not care because there is nothing for them to work towards or move up on like leaderboards.
    ~Previous WvW seasons were purely about PPT and which server comes first and back in the day when it came to winning seasons it was all just down to coverage. Whichever server had the most coverage that server will win. Players and guild pulled a lot of time during those seasons PPTing and trying to win which lead them to burn out and quit. Also with glicko system the tiers were always locked hence no server moving up or down.

    -Server links its a game of shuffle which literally allows different servers to move up a tier or go down depending on how good or bad the links are.
    -The 1up and 1down system allows even more shuffling servers allowing tier locks to breaks.
    -Now if Arena Net introduces seasons with the server linking; basically new link = start of the new season. I think it will have positive effect on competitive side of WvW.
    -There are not going to be tier locks = fighting different server each week = higher chance of winning rather than always loosing = people can still pull over time depending on the score and tier without having to burn themselves off.
    -Seasons having new rewards and other things which will allow new players to enter WvW and possibilities of servers getting new commanders which most WvW servers do lack in the current state of the game.

    +Leaderboards
    *You cant make WvW competitive by just introducing seasons; you also need leaderboards.
    *Have different kind of leaderboards because there are different styles to play WvW

    -Leaderboard that keep tracks servers weekly wins and loses.
    -Leaderboard that keep tracks of which server had the most weekly kills and season total.
    -Leaderboard that keep tracks which server captured most camps/towers/keeps/ or which server upgraded other servers camps/towers/keeps the most.
    Etc

    Now the main thing I wanted to talk about.

    Guild vs Guild
    *We play a game called Guild wars 2, Guild Wars .. Arena Net so why not make it a thing with seasons..??
    *Old players and new competitive players will definitely come into WvW.
    *^Same goes for old and new guilds.
    *GvG is one thing that hooked me to this game and it could be one amazing thing in this game if taken in the right direction with the right attitude.
    *Arena Net has always denied the scene and always wanted it to die out or not be a thing at all but GIVE GvG SCENE A CHANCE AT LEAST!

    -Introduce seasons with new links.
    -Add a GvG leaderboards.
    -Turn Obsidian Sanctum into instanced based map aka mega server Obsidian Sanctum.
    -Make a website or place where guilds can sign up to take part in GvG. Arena Net this part can literally be done by GvG community. There are still players who would strongly you support and make a system for you where guilds can sign up and to keep track of guild Win / Loss ratio all you have to do is give us leaderboards.
    -GvG scene is small right now but there are people who cast them! all we need is the tools! Give us the tools!

    !Give us megaserver Obsidian Sanctum and GvG leaderboards!

    MAKE WvW MORE COMPETITIVE PLEASE!.

    1. Many of us know the links have failed, but we can't convince Anet of that even on maps where two sides have 30 and 60-80 and 25 - boggles the mind.
    2. Many of us have asked for tournaments to be returned in their glory without gimmicks, as they were.

    Sigh. Five years plus and I won't give up hope for a better WvW and server identity to be honored not dismissed.

  • Links arent as failed, so much as how Anet determines Server Population has failed. Though I dislike links, How Anet determines server population is 100x worse.

  • Links could be made better with tournaments and more fun but honestly after this latest relinks I lost all hope and wanna go back to old server system.

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