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Do not believe the teef mains

Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited March 27, 2021 in PVP

Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

<13

Comments

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    So nerf mesmer then ? Got it.

    Yes, buff shatterstone.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    got hit by a 9k heartseeker last week
    nerf teef

    jokes

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

    Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

    Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

    4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

    Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

    Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

    4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

    I didn't have vuln, but I can't rule out if he was getting might from the support or not since I'm very bad at checking enemy boons. That may have been it.

    He did have assassin signet, so it was likely that in conjunction with might from the support.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To balance this render delay i suggest thieves taking twice as long to cap/decap points

    Ty

  • Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"
    10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

    Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

    Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

    4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

    I didn't have vuln, but I can't rule out if he was getting might from the support or not since I'm very bad at checking enemy boons. That may have been it.

    He did have assassin signet, so it was likely that in conjunction with might from the support.

    That wouldn't be enough, unless Signets bug suddenly returned. Signet only increases power now, and not by that much compared to might. It should still be well outside of 8k range. Unless it was a malicious backstab, but those show up as such, and arent very good. But yeah, under normal circumstances 8k is unachievable.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kondor.2904 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

    Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

    Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

    4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

    Right, I guess I had 50 stacks of vuln on me kappa

    How old is this screenshot? Is this from 2006? 10k backstabs haven't been a thing in a loooong time. Even then they werent much of a thing outside of some people memeing with crit strikes.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tuchanka.5148 said:
    Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"
    10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

    If they're using DnD to backstab you, you can just turn around make it a frontstab. Even the Odds doesn't apply the might bonus to the backstab damage. 10k Backstabs dont happen and thats because they arent possible. If the thief invests everything into damage, they still wont crack 8k on any enemy that isnt affected by a lot of vuln while they have a lot of might. 10k? Short of some damage% amplifiers that other classes can apply (which I don't believe exists anymore after Druid lost its buff), the only way you could do that is on an enemy who unequips all their armour.

  • Abelisk.5148Abelisk.5148 Member ✭✭✭

    Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

    The render lag can't be fixed, but it can be mitigated by reworking stealth to be reveal-on-cast instead of reveal-on-hit which is far more interactive and would be better for the game anyways. Render lag is just one of the many reasons for why this rework is necessary. I can name a couple thief mains who are only "top" thieves purely because they have a regular lag of over 2 seconds. Whether it is something weird with their connection or an intentional exploit, who knows, but the fix is all the same.

    A rework you're not going to get anytime soon, because like many other problems. 'Resources \o/'

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

    How do people keep coming up with more and more unrealistic numbers? Although, do you mean malicious backstab?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

    Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

    Nah, its not. I think they mean 7 malice malicious backstab with full crit strikes. This isnt "paying the price", this is just an unrealistic build. You'll have a much easier time hitting people with photonic blasting module, its less setup and easier to hit. And nah, if you invest for damage on thief, most you get is 5k backstabs. To get more than that, you need to pick crit strikes, and hope that your damage multipliers dont suddenly all turn off because their conditions are no longer fulfilled, only to realise that that happens in every single fight youre in, and youre actually doing less damage.

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tuchanka.5148 said:
    Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"
    10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

    Who is playing off hand dagger?

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

    Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

    Nah, its not. I think they mean 7 malice malicious backstab with full crit strikes. This isnt "paying the price", this is just an unrealistic build. You'll have a much easier time hitting people with photonic blasting module, its less setup and easier to hit. And nah, if you invest for damage on thief, most you get is 5k backstabs. To get more than that, you need to pick crit strikes, and hope that your damage multipliers dont suddenly all turn off because their conditions are no longer fulfilled, only to realise that that happens in every single fight youre in, and youre actually doing less damage.

    Welcome in balanced game then? You have to sacrifice sustain/mobility for damage via skills and traits, sorry, but this is fairly balanced to me.
    It's up to the player then to keep these "conditions up" to deal damage, which then will require S K I L L to do so.
    Why you even bring one of most broken e-speces in the game as comparision to it? Holosmith with rest e-speces are soo poorly designed I'm still surprised that they're allowed anywhere near in PvP and WvW since they were released.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    I made a mistake in the calculation. The base armor is 1888 in PvP - not 1867. So the backstab will not deal 10,403, but only 10,287 damage - big difference!

    May bad!

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can still 8k backstab but I have to run CS and Executioner on Core, so I assure yu a 100% I'm utterly useless for everything but trying to cheese 1 shots on glass cannons cos 7/10 I try to pull this on a target with Protect and I get myself killed.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • SteepledHat.1345SteepledHat.1345 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tuchanka.5148 said:
    Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"
    10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

    Maybe with crit strikes and Deadly arts executioner. Or, if you sync up a bounding dodge + weakness+low havoc spec on DD. - all against a squish af target with no prot.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

    Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

    Nah, its not. I think they mean 7 malice malicious backstab with full crit strikes. This isnt "paying the price", this is just an unrealistic build. You'll have a much easier time hitting people with photonic blasting module, its less setup and easier to hit. And nah, if you invest for damage on thief, most you get is 5k backstabs. To get more than that, you need to pick crit strikes, and hope that your damage multipliers dont suddenly all turn off because their conditions are no longer fulfilled, only to realise that that happens in every single fight youre in, and youre actually doing less damage.

    Welcome in balanced game then? You have to sacrifice sustain/mobility for damage via skills and traits, sorry, but this is fairly balanced to me.
    It's up to the player then to keep these "conditions up" to deal damage, which then will require S K I L L to do so.
    Why you even bring one of most broken e-speces in the game as comparision to it? Holosmith with rest e-speces are soo poorly designed I'm still surprised that they're allowed anywhere near in PvP and WvW since they were released.

    Oh you don't know how crit strikes work, huh? The player has actually genuinely no influence on these conditions being active. Thats completely beyond their control. And even then, the damage is lower than what other classes do with actual viable build. Its not "balanced", its just thief being unable to do damage in realistic scenarios. And the point was that I compared it to the worst trait in Holosmith, and one of the worst traits in the game. This build is worse than that.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    Alright, already we have a few issues here. There is no weakness on the enemy, so weakening strikes damage multiplier is turned off. You didn't ignore havoc specialist, because 1.15 can only come from it. So lets take those 2 off, shall we?

    10,403 damage

    Actually, 8454 damage if you don't use the traits you said you're not using.

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    I said you can push it to 8k, but its unrealistic because crit strikes is bad and the conditions constantly turn off. Take away Twin Fangs, take away Ferocious Strike, and suddenly you're down to 7k damage, ish. And thats with Assassins Signet.

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    Ah yes, as opposed to the other DPS classes that take a skillbar ... full of defensive skills. Because as it turns out you kinda need those. Assassin's Signet is also just not good enough anymore. Daredevil is not a defensive traitline, its an offensive one. Shadow Arts is also used as an offensive traitline. Its replacing DA. The reason thieves are complaining about not doing damage is because they're not doing damage unless they go a meme-tier build. This is like if they nerfed all holosmith skills by 50%, and then you told them "Oh don't complain, you still have insane burst in Photonic Blasting Module". Except that build is actually better.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

    It's close. Fighting unkillable walls that stat check you into oblivion is fun for no one. It makes you feel as if your skill expression doesn't matter. Meanwhile being ganked from stealth when you're on half hp and getting deleted makes you feel like you lost that fight due to cheese and not due to the opponent outskilling you.

    Looking at League of Legneds as an example... the most dreaded metas by the community seem to be tank metas. Because you've got 8 balls of stats running at each other beating each other over the head with clubs until one side's stats overwhelm the other side. Riveting stuff.

    Meanwhile, on an individual bases, the most hated champions are undoubtably those with high mobility, high burst, and/or stealth.

    Rengar, Teemo, Zed, Talon, The Yasuo brothers ect. see a lot more bans on average than 99% of tanks.

    If I had to call it, I'd say people (on average) hate thief-like classes the most; however when meta shifts happen the metas people tend to hate most are tank metas because it causes gameplay to slow down to a crawl. If i had to guess why, it's because the tanks are widely considered unfun to play in comparison to builds with more mobility and more playmaking potential, and tank metas make you feel like you're punished for not playing a tank.

    Relating that back to Gw2. The classes people hate most are most certainly thief and mesmer. However, when citing the worst meta in the game's history, the one that comes up most often HoT bunker meta.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

    It's close. Fighting unkillable walls that stat check you into oblivion is fun for no one. It makes you feel as if your skill expression doesn't matter. Meanwhile being ganked from stealth when you're on half hp and getting deleted makes you feel like you lost that fight due to cheese and not due to the opponent outskilling you.

    Looking at League of Legneds as an example... the most dreaded metas by the community seem to be tank metas. Because you've got 8 balls of stats running at each other beating each other over the head with clubs until one side's stats overwhelm the other side. Riveting stuff.

    Meanwhile, on an individual bases, the most hated champions are undoubtably those with high mobility, high burst, and/or stealth.

    Rengar, Teemo, Zed, Talon, The Yasuo brothers ect. see a lot more bans on average than 99% of tanks.

    If I had to call it, I'd say people (on average) hate thief-like classes the most; however when meta shifts happen the metas people tend to hate most are tank metas because it causes gameplay to slow down to a crawl. If i had to guess why, it's because the tanks are widely considered unfun to play in comparison to builds with more mobility and more playmaking potential, and tank metas make you feel like you're punished for not playing a tank.

    Relating that back to Gw2. The classes people hate most are most certainly thief and mesmer. However, when citing the worst meta in the game's history, the one that comes up most often HoT bunker meta.

    I've noticed over the years that the tank meta always comes after the assassin meta like out of spite. In the case of GW2 currently there isn't much you can do vs thief decap power, since the base strategy of kill the kitten thing that generally works vs everything else , doesn't work on it. So people have to play as a team to counter it, to counter it you need to guard the point, which means people would be outnumbered, so people play builds that can handle multiple opponents and surprise attacks ,so tanky builds it is.
    The problem with thief as a whole is that it needs hard counter all the while most of the other classes need soft counter, which revolves around maybe changing some skills and traits that would work fine enough vs other builds that you are not trying to counter.
    CMC wants to bring the numerical balance to a bruiser meta (push and pull, you hit me i hit you ) which is proven to be the meta most people enjoy. The problem is that there are allot of mechanical problems that need changes. For example thief would need a full rework along with the passives rework since passives were keeping it in check even though it did more damage, i could mention others like scourge but there the whole concept is broken.
    PS: And yes most thief mains tend to lie, but it is kinda in the name , so it is not really a big surprise.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

    It's close. Fighting unkillable walls that stat check you into oblivion is fun for no one. It makes you feel as if your skill expression doesn't matter. Meanwhile being ganked from stealth when you're on half hp and getting deleted makes you feel like you lost that fight due to cheese and not due to the opponent outskilling you.

    Looking at League of Legneds as an example... the most dreaded metas by the community seem to be tank metas. Because you've got 8 balls of stats running at each other beating each other over the head with clubs until one side's stats overwhelm the other side. Riveting stuff.

    Meanwhile, on an individual bases, the most hated champions are undoubtably those with high mobility, high burst, and/or stealth.

    Rengar, Teemo, Zed, Talon, The Yasuo brothers ect. see a lot more bans on average than 99% of tanks.

    If I had to call it, I'd say people (on average) hate thief-like classes the most; however when meta shifts happen the metas people tend to hate most are tank metas because it causes gameplay to slow down to a crawl. If i had to guess why, it's because the tanks are widely considered unfun to play in comparison to builds with more mobility and more playmaking potential, and tank metas make you feel like you're punished for not playing a tank.

    Relating that back to Gw2. The classes people hate most are most certainly thief and mesmer. However, when citing the worst meta in the game's history, the one that comes up most often HoT bunker meta.

    I've noticed over the years that the tank meta always comes after the assassin meta like out of spite. In the case of GW2 currently there isn't much you can do vs thief decap power, since the base strategy of kill the kitten thing that generally works vs everything else , doesn't work on it. So people have to play as a team to counter it, to counter it you need to guard the point, which means people would be outnumbered, so people play builds that can handle multiple opponents and surprise attacks ,so tanky builds it is.
    The problem with thief as a whole is that it needs hard counter all the while most of the other classes need soft counter, which revolves around maybe changing some skills and traits that would work fine enough vs other builds that you are not trying to counter.
    CMC wants to bring the numerical balance to a bruiser meta (push and pull, you hit me i hit you ) which is proven to be the meta most people enjoy. The problem is that there are allot of mechanical problems that need changes. For example thief would need a full rework along with the passives rework since passives were keeping it in check even though it did more damage, i could mention others like scourge but there the whole concept is broken.
    PS: And yes most thief mains tend to lie, but it is kinda in the name , so it is not really a big surprise.

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

    It's close. Fighting unkillable walls that stat check you into oblivion is fun for no one. It makes you feel as if your skill expression doesn't matter. Meanwhile being ganked from stealth when you're on half hp and getting deleted makes you feel like you lost that fight due to cheese and not due to the opponent outskilling you.

    Looking at League of Legneds as an example... the most dreaded metas by the community seem to be tank metas. Because you've got 8 balls of stats running at each other beating each other over the head with clubs until one side's stats overwhelm the other side. Riveting stuff.

    Meanwhile, on an individual bases, the most hated champions are undoubtably those with high mobility, high burst, and/or stealth.

    Rengar, Teemo, Zed, Talon, The Yasuo brothers ect. see a lot more bans on average than 99% of tanks.

    If I had to call it, I'd say people (on average) hate thief-like classes the most; however when meta shifts happen the metas people tend to hate most are tank metas because it causes gameplay to slow down to a crawl. If i had to guess why, it's because the tanks are widely considered unfun to play in comparison to builds with more mobility and more playmaking potential, and tank metas make you feel like you're punished for not playing a tank.

    Relating that back to Gw2. The classes people hate most are most certainly thief and mesmer. However, when citing the worst meta in the game's history, the one that comes up most often HoT bunker meta.

    I've noticed over the years that the tank meta always comes after the assassin meta like out of spite. In the case of GW2 currently there isn't much you can do vs thief decap power, since the base strategy of kill the kitten thing that generally works vs everything else , doesn't work on it. So people have to play as a team to counter it, to counter it you need to guard the point, which means people would be outnumbered, so people play builds that can handle multiple opponents and surprise attacks ,so tanky builds it is.
    The problem with thief as a whole is that it needs hard counter all the while most of the other classes need soft counter, which revolves around maybe changing some skills and traits that would work fine enough vs other builds that you are not trying to counter.
    CMC wants to bring the numerical balance to a bruiser meta (push and pull, you hit me i hit you ) which is proven to be the meta most people enjoy. The problem is that there are allot of mechanical problems that need changes. For example thief would need a full rework along with the passives rework since passives were keeping it in check even though it did more damage, i could mention others like scourge but there the whole concept is broken.
    PS: And yes most thief mains tend to lie, but it is kinda in the name , so it is not really a big surprise.

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    Actually, no, quite often its not. I mean its up there, noone likes to be ganked and oneshot out of nowhere (which thief can't do anymore, but rogues in other MMOs can do), but people tend to hate certain other classes more. The ones that can just shrug off anything while they keep bashing your face in.

    It's close. Fighting unkillable walls that stat check you into oblivion is fun for no one. It makes you feel as if your skill expression doesn't matter. Meanwhile being ganked from stealth when you're on half hp and getting deleted makes you feel like you lost that fight due to cheese and not due to the opponent outskilling you.

    Looking at League of Legneds as an example... the most dreaded metas by the community seem to be tank metas. Because you've got 8 balls of stats running at each other beating each other over the head with clubs until one side's stats overwhelm the other side. Riveting stuff.

    Meanwhile, on an individual bases, the most hated champions are undoubtably those with high mobility, high burst, and/or stealth.

    Rengar, Teemo, Zed, Talon, The Yasuo brothers ect. see a lot more bans on average than 99% of tanks.

    If I had to call it, I'd say people (on average) hate thief-like classes the most; however when meta shifts happen the metas people tend to hate most are tank metas because it causes gameplay to slow down to a crawl. If i had to guess why, it's because the tanks are widely considered unfun to play in comparison to builds with more mobility and more playmaking potential, and tank metas make you feel like you're punished for not playing a tank.

    Relating that back to Gw2. The classes people hate most are most certainly thief and mesmer. However, when citing the worst meta in the game's history, the one that comes up most often HoT bunker meta.

    I've noticed over the years that the tank meta always comes after the assassin meta like out of spite. In the case of GW2 currently there isn't much you can do vs thief decap power, since the base strategy of kill the kitten thing that generally works vs everything else , doesn't work on it. So people have to play as a team to counter it, to counter it you need to guard the point, which means people would be outnumbered, so people play builds that can handle multiple opponents and surprise attacks ,so tanky builds it is.
    The problem with thief as a whole is that it needs hard counter all the while most of the other classes need soft counter, which revolves around maybe changing some skills and traits that would work fine enough vs other builds that you are not trying to counter.
    CMC wants to bring the numerical balance to a bruiser meta (push and pull, you hit me i hit you ) which is proven to be the meta most people enjoy. The problem is that there are allot of mechanical problems that need changes. For example thief would need a full rework along with the passives rework since passives were keeping it in check even though it did more damage, i could mention others like scourge but there the whole concept is broken.
    PS: And yes most thief mains tend to lie, but it is kinda in the name , so it is not really a big surprise.

    Yeah, except, thief is just generally bad right now. People arent playing tanky to counter thief, because noone plays thief in the first place. They play tanky because thats the best strategy. Thief just sucks ever since they nerfed Shortbow 5, since that was the entire reason theif was good. Thief doesnt need a rework at all. Now that SB5 is nerfed, they just need massively increased fighting capability. Make them capable of winning 1v1s.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    Just don't trust anyone who still has mains in this 8 year old game, period. Get to multiclassing already... does wonders for objectivity.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    That made sense when it was indeed the most mobile by a wide margin. Thats what SB5 is about. But now, its barely more mobile than some alternatives. If all you have to give up for the actual ability to fight is losing 1 second on the rotation, then there is no point to ever not do that. There is a reason thief basically wasn't played at all in the hardstuck league. Except to back up a Mesmer.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    Uh, no, those are still absolute meme builds. They're less unplayable now because they keep nerfing everything down over and over, but they're very much so still bad. Its why you didnt see them in the hardstuck league basically at all. Sides, I don't play thief, not anymore. I play Engineer. Thief got boring when it became a pure decap and +1-bot, and now its not even that, its just fodder. Not even an enjoyable kill because its too easy.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

    An opener with the build above will deal:
    922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

    10,403 damage

    No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

    Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

    The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

    how kitten dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.
    You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

    Ah yes, because thieves are totally using every defensive trait (hence why they're not using their only defensive traitline, acrobatics), and totally not using every good offensive trait available. No Crit Strikes are not good. There is a reason even when people were playing double burst core, they were not using crit strikes. Its about as useful as Illusions is on core shatter, to put it in the perspective of a class you do actually understand.

    U rly try to go against this anti teef nonsense, try to argue, try to explain.

    But u will never be succesfull vs this hating teef community, vs these fakenews.

    After they killed core and DD they will hate on DE now ...

    In every mmo the most hated class is the class which has a lot invisibility and mobility

    There is not a single profession in this game that's not hated for reason or another, every day there are couple of nerf threads or bashful post about some profession. That's the nature of MMO these days

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    imo the class i hate the most are the stun lockers/ skill denial types. i'm looking at you gw1 warrior/ mesmer. altho i mostly played war, so.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the most hated classes are the ones that ignore fundamental rules of the game. This is why people hate mesmer despite it being kitten.
    1 Skills with no cast times.
    2 dodge while controlled
    Any class that has I can do X to you but you cant do X to me cuz im me is going to be hated.
    Ahh it reminds of of good old rogue from neverwinter online

  • @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... 🥴

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... 🥴

    If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.
    /s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s
    All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.
    Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... 🥴

    If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

    Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

    /s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

    Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

    All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

    They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

    Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

    Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... 🥴

    If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

    Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

    /s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

    Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

    All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

    They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

    Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

    Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.

    You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.
    Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.
    I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Raiden The Beast.3016 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    I still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

    It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.

    DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

    This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... 🥴

    If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

    Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

    /s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

    Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

    All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

    They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

    Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

    Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.

    You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

    Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

    Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

    If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

    I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

    You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.