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Do not believe the teef mains

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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Stalima.5490 said:
    What happened to just pressing your elite spin to win on thief and instantly deleting all characters across all worlds?

    Has someone ever died to daggerstorm? Lol, if so....

    pre-feb dagger storm had dmg coof 5.0
    this is not counting the fact it can also reflect some attacks

    Technically 8.0 actually, it fires 8 daggers each of which did 1.0 damage. At least in theory. In practice, it was janky and often the daggers just didnt hit, and it hit for a lot less.

    I tested DS, it fired only 5 daggers, at least against 1 target, maybe it fire 8 when there is more, but bottom line was that when you stand on top of someone in 1v1, 5 daggers will be thrown at them if memory serves right

    Its just janky like that. It also sometimes hits less than 5 times against one target.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    That made sense when it was indeed the most mobile by a wide margin. Thats what SB5 is about. But now, its barely more mobile than some alternatives. If all you have to give up for the actual ability to fight is losing 1 second on the rotation, then there is no point to ever not do that. There is a reason thief basically wasn't played at all in the hardstuck league. Except to back up a Mesmer.

    Yeah, it went from mandatory to optional depending on comp. This is how a meta should work.

    It went from mandatory, to playable in only one extremely niche comp where it plays second fiddle to Mesmer. Given how terrible of a state Mesmer is in, that should tell you everything.

    The game has revolved around thief for years. The team with the better thief tended to win.

    Thief was borderline mandatory, but that wasnt the case. A thief relied a lot on its team, a good thief with a bad team loses to a bad thief with a good team pretty much every time. Oh and its also not exactly true. In HoT, thief was likewise just not really played, it wasnt very good. In PoF, it was good for most of it, but also had a few off metas.

    If you managed to consistently win the thief 1v1, you opened the map up immensely. If you killed the enemy thief, it automatically won you the sides.
    You might think it's a fun meta where the entire game revolves around who gets the +1 first. But it's not fun for non-thief players.

    Im not saying they should give thief SB5 back. I always wanted the nerf, I just expected them to not do it. But now that thief doesn't have their signature superior mobility anymore, its time to compensate thief by giving them back the ability to duel, deal damage and survive. Because if not, why ever pick thief other than to back up a Mesmer through the usage of AoE stealth?

    What you seem to fail to realize is the sheer amount of utility you're downplaying. Thief lets you hide rotations, keep side-noders on sides by just stealthing up before leaving. You still have unparalleled out-of combat mobilty, even though the gap has closed.
    And yes, it's used in conjunction with mesmer right now. I fail to see how that's a bad thing though.

    Thief lets you hide rotations in theory, in practice not really that valuable right now, especially since it is telegraphed if people see the smoke field. It doesn't really let you keep side-noders on sides. Their mobility is only very slightly ahead now ,to the point where its not worth it anymore. You gain 1 second over ranger, and lose a lot in exchange. And it being used only as a second fiddle to the arguably single worst class right now is a pretty terrible state to be in.

    I'm very fine with thief getting a duelist spec, so long as it doesn't revolve around perma evading or repetitive stealthing. Because that would make it so you can't +1 it. I think S/D is the way to go if you want a duelist spec.

    So you want thief to get a duelist spec ... without the neccessary defense to be a duelist spec? It not focusing on stealth is fine. Stealth is garbage in combat anyway. But unless thief gets a lot of block or invuln, it needs to have evades to have a capable duelist.

    However, I would remove the unblockable on the first 3 skill and keep it on larc strike. Buffing sword autos and reworking acro into a defensive line with traits that reduce damage and give healing on vigor application. Or something along those lines. So thief doesn't have to depend on stealth or evades to live. That's not engaging for anyone.

    Why? It has unblockable for a reason. Also, Acro already is a defensive traitline, thats why its terrible. Damage reduction is worthless without blocks or evades. It being evading absolutely is engaging, its more fun to face a warrior or a ranger than a minion mancer scourge. Also, its not just sword autos that need a damage up, all of thieves weapons do, except maybe DE that just needs some of the jank removed. Oh and then after that everyones damage needs to be upped across the board because the meta is garbage.

    You're too biased to have a proper discussion with, and you lack the understanding of the inter-class dynamic to understand how nerfs to scourge will be a massive buff to thief.

    What nerfs to scourge? For that matter, scourge is one of the few classes thief does somewhat well against, so if anything that is a nerf to thief. So its funny you say I lack understanding.

    Sic'em is bad, it has no play what do ever.

    I dont know why you keep fixating on Sic Em. I never mentioned Sic Em.

    If you bothered to read, I suggested a Rework to acro in order to let thief get the necessary defensives in order to properly duel.

    There has never been a class that was able to go for a duelist playstyle with just passive defenses. Especially not thief, which has inherently the lowest health in the game, and the second-worst armour.

    Bandits defense is already a block, a pretty good one too.

    Its mediocre. Long cooldown, fairly short block duration. Good for the knockdown though, but sadly not worth a slot. Certainly not enough for a duelist.

    Edit: try using smoke blasts from out of sight.

    Enemy roamers exist.

    It doesn't matter if thieves do well or not into scourge specifically.
    Thieves flourish in a fast paced meta where sides bring enough damage to actually pressure and force cooldowns from one another, meaning the thief gets a quick kill and is free too move.

    So yes, this shows your complete lack of understanding how not only your own class works. But the inter-class dynamics as a whole works.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    decent teef representation in most recent mat. after some of these bunker supports die down teef will be fine. they (and most classes) still need something done about their guttered skills/ traits tho.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @UNOwen.7132
    most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrong

    That made sense when it was indeed the most mobile by a wide margin. Thats what SB5 is about. But now, its barely more mobile than some alternatives. If all you have to give up for the actual ability to fight is losing 1 second on the rotation, then there is no point to ever not do that. There is a reason thief basically wasn't played at all in the hardstuck league. Except to back up a Mesmer.

    Yeah, it went from mandatory to optional depending on comp. This is how a meta should work.

    It went from mandatory, to playable in only one extremely niche comp where it plays second fiddle to Mesmer. Given how terrible of a state Mesmer is in, that should tell you everything.

    The game has revolved around thief for years. The team with the better thief tended to win.

    Thief was borderline mandatory, but that wasnt the case. A thief relied a lot on its team, a good thief with a bad team loses to a bad thief with a good team pretty much every time. Oh and its also not exactly true. In HoT, thief was likewise just not really played, it wasnt very good. In PoF, it was good for most of it, but also had a few off metas.

    If you managed to consistently win the thief 1v1, you opened the map up immensely. If you killed the enemy thief, it automatically won you the sides.
    You might think it's a fun meta where the entire game revolves around who gets the +1 first. But it's not fun for non-thief players.

    Im not saying they should give thief SB5 back. I always wanted the nerf, I just expected them to not do it. But now that thief doesn't have their signature superior mobility anymore, its time to compensate thief by giving them back the ability to duel, deal damage and survive. Because if not, why ever pick thief other than to back up a Mesmer through the usage of AoE stealth?

    What you seem to fail to realize is the sheer amount of utility you're downplaying. Thief lets you hide rotations, keep side-noders on sides by just stealthing up before leaving. You still have unparalleled out-of combat mobilty, even though the gap has closed.
    And yes, it's used in conjunction with mesmer right now. I fail to see how that's a bad thing though.

    Thief lets you hide rotations in theory, in practice not really that valuable right now, especially since it is telegraphed if people see the smoke field. It doesn't really let you keep side-noders on sides. Their mobility is only very slightly ahead now ,to the point where its not worth it anymore. You gain 1 second over ranger, and lose a lot in exchange. And it being used only as a second fiddle to the arguably single worst class right now is a pretty terrible state to be in.

    I'm very fine with thief getting a duelist spec, so long as it doesn't revolve around perma evading or repetitive stealthing. Because that would make it so you can't +1 it. I think S/D is the way to go if you want a duelist spec.

    So you want thief to get a duelist spec ... without the neccessary defense to be a duelist spec? It not focusing on stealth is fine. Stealth is garbage in combat anyway. But unless thief gets a lot of block or invuln, it needs to have evades to have a capable duelist.

    However, I would remove the unblockable on the first 3 skill and keep it on larc strike. Buffing sword autos and reworking acro into a defensive line with traits that reduce damage and give healing on vigor application. Or something along those lines. So thief doesn't have to depend on stealth or evades to live. That's not engaging for anyone.

    Why? It has unblockable for a reason. Also, Acro already is a defensive traitline, thats why its terrible. Damage reduction is worthless without blocks or evades. It being evading absolutely is engaging, its more fun to face a warrior or a ranger than a minion mancer scourge. Also, its not just sword autos that need a damage up, all of thieves weapons do, except maybe DE that just needs some of the jank removed. Oh and then after that everyones damage needs to be upped across the board because the meta is garbage.

    You're too biased to have a proper discussion with, and you lack the understanding of the inter-class dynamic to understand how nerfs to scourge will be a massive buff to thief.

    What nerfs to scourge? For that matter, scourge is one of the few classes thief does somewhat well against, so if anything that is a nerf to thief. So its funny you say I lack understanding.

    Sic'em is bad, it has no play what do ever.

    I dont know why you keep fixating on Sic Em. I never mentioned Sic Em.

    If you bothered to read, I suggested a Rework to acro in order to let thief get the necessary defensives in order to properly duel.

    There has never been a class that was able to go for a duelist playstyle with just passive defenses. Especially not thief, which has inherently the lowest health in the game, and the second-worst armour.

    Bandits defense is already a block, a pretty good one too.

    Its mediocre. Long cooldown, fairly short block duration. Good for the knockdown though, but sadly not worth a slot. Certainly not enough for a duelist.

    Edit: try using smoke blasts from out of sight.

    Enemy roamers exist.

    It doesn't matter if thieves do well or not into scourge specifically.

    Yes it rather does? Changes to a single class only help another class if it countered them or replaced them, and Scourge does neither.

    Thieves flourish in a fast paced meta where sides bring enough damage to actually pressure and force cooldowns from one another, meaning the thief gets a quick kill and is free too move.

    And you think Scourge is responsible for that, and not the fact that were in a major powerdip scenario where the damage just isnt there? Also, its less about how much damage they do, its how much they can take. Thieves damage is low, for +1s to be effective, the enemy needs to not be able to take that many hits.

    So yes, this shows your complete lack of understanding how not only your own class works. But the inter-class dynamics as a whole works.

    Not really? It shows that you don't understand how metas work, or thief, or anything inbetween. You seem to think that scourge is responsible for the low damage meta and not the, yknow, low damage, especially given that scourge wasnt a sidenoder, so the logic fails alltogether. You also seem to not realise that even in that case, the fact that thief is barely faster but a lot worse otherwise remains. What does it matter if thief gets there 1 second faster if ranger and rev are 2+ times more effective once they are there?

  • Frodox.1283Frodox.1283 Member ✭✭

    Tbh currently the best thing u can do is change class. I like thief and I've played quite some matches in PvP, but lately it was just pain(although I was doing mostly fine), I've decided to change to berserk and it's much more fun, I mean the burst dmg is just far better and I can almost one shot them with berserk burst attack soo the thing is, don't play teef in PvP rn, why bother for low rewards? Thief currently isn't good, playable? Yes. Enough dmg to 1v1/ effective +1? Not so much. Mobility? If your shadowstep is on cooldown u're not hard to catch. So I mean if u like to hurt yourself or u're up for a real challenge sure go for it, but currently u could just swap to another class that's in better shape. I'm not a PvP main nor have I played/tried everything to truly judge so this is based on few of my crappy builds and personal exp.