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Good lord, people still play spvp?

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  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bast.7253 said:
    Stuff.

    I agree with everything here.

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    M+ is also only done by the vast minority of the population playing WoW it's super nicht in popularity.

    Raiding is only done by the vast minority aswell.

    25-30% of WoWs population ever do heroic raiding, this including numbers from boosters and multi boxers by the end of the season.

    4% of the population do heroic raiding during its initial release era.

    M+ has the same statistics.

    PvP only 2% of the population get to 2.4k.

    I mean this is a problem in both games. Very little of the "end content" is done. Most players sit in queuable content and solo content. Hence why SL is bleeding so hard.

    Because it's casual playerbase don't want to play the game anymore.

    I'd agree in the past, WoW offered more. But since they recently ramped the raid difficulty above the averages WoW ability to cater to the bleeding edge. And have turned m+ into a major eSports centric enviroment.

    No ones doing the content anymore. SL raid launch ahs destroyed a vast amount of their guilds.

    Look on the forum sometime I assure you it's not doing as good as you think.

    As far as I'm aware add-ons are allowed in gw2? It's a simple case of no ones making them. Not that they can't make them

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    M+ is also only done by the vast minority of the population playing WoW it's super nicht in popularity.

    Raiding is only done by the vast minority aswell.

    25-30% of WoWs population ever do heroic raiding, this including numbers from boosters and multi boxers by the end of the season.

    4% of the population do heroic raiding during its initial release era.

    M+ has the same statistics.

    PvP only 2% of the population get to 2.4k.

    I mean this is a problem in both games. Very little of the "end content" is done. Most players sit in queuable content and solo content. Hence why SL is bleeding so hard.

    Because it's casual playerbase don't want to play the game anymore.

    I'd agree in the past, WoW offered more. But since they recently ramped the raid difficulty above the averages WoW ability to cater to the bleeding edge. And have turned m+ into a major eSports centric enviroment.

    No ones doing the content anymore. SL raid launch ahs destroyed a vast amount of their guilds.

    Look on the forum sometime I assure you it's not doing as good as you think.

    As far as I'm aware add-ons are allowed in gw2? It's a simple case of no ones making them. Not that they can't make them

    The hell are you talking about?
    Everyone is doing M+, I dont know a single person that doesnt. Maybe casuals dont do 15+ for meta gear, but up to 10 is done by everyone.
    Hc in the beginning is done by guilds, but in the end I see so many casuals in the lfg that I could sit with popcorn and enjoy clownfiesta show whole week. If you would say mythic then Id strongly agree, even if it was <10% of population, cuz its place for hardcore players.
    2.4k is glad, so its normal its only 2%. Look at how many ppl play BGs and those that try arena that are 1.2k-2k (so basically didnt quit after first 10)
    Im sorry, but I wont believe statistics that you just said. Could you link blizz post, cuz I dont see how its possible when counting active accounts. That would mean 80% of the population are roleplayers

    As I mentioned before, its usual way of WoW living. Big start, glads get glad, raiders get hall of fame mythic clear, then its time for casuals and chill. Update hits, ppl come back for new season, new raid and content. And so on. So sl being in worse state than in the launch is pretty much normal.

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2. And there are whiners everywhere, as usual.
    Addons are kinda allowed, game has almost 9 years so its too late to start implementing them, game evolved into different form.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

  • Xentera.4560Xentera.4560 Member ✭✭✭

    Ranked discourages people from playing by design. It was a very shortsighted decision making that is fundamentally flawed right from the start. The whole concept of the more matches your play the more likely you are to be placed on the inferior team by the MMR just screams “Do Not Play”.

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

    Good for you continue having fun with it. I've experienced both, I've done higher than Mythic15+ before, and I used to do Fractal CMs frequently when I was more active. Fractals and raids suffer from eon long droughts of content. After you've done them all, there's not much to look forward too until after a year+ of waiting for one additional new fractal(you haven't hit this point yet). Also Fractals have a glaring flaw of not really having enough themed rewards/cosmetics for the amount of time it's been out as a replacement for dungeons. As far as my opinion goes, WoW does raiding experience better than Gw2, and at least production of repeatable PVE content(M+) better, along with rewards.

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    M+ is also only done by the vast minority of the population playing WoW it's super nicht in popularity.

    Raiding is only done by the vast minority aswell.

    25-30% of WoWs population ever do heroic raiding, this including numbers from boosters and multi boxers by the end of the season.

    4% of the population do heroic raiding during its initial release era.

    M+ has the same statistics.

    PvP only 2% of the population get to 2.4k.

    I mean this is a problem in both games. Very little of the "end content" is done. Most players sit in queuable content and solo content. Hence why SL is bleeding so hard.

    Because it's casual playerbase don't want to play the game anymore.

    I'd agree in the past, WoW offered more. But since they recently ramped the raid difficulty above the averages WoW ability to cater to the bleeding edge. And have turned m+ into a major eSports centric enviroment.

    No ones doing the content anymore. SL raid launch ahs destroyed a vast amount of their guilds.

    Look on the forum sometime I assure you it's not doing as good as you think.

    As far as I'm aware add-ons are allowed in gw2? It's a simple case of no ones making them. Not that they can't make them

    The hell are you talking about?
    Everyone is doing M+, I dont know a single person that doesnt. Maybe casuals dont do 15+ for meta gear, but up to 10 is done by everyone.
    Hc in the beginning is done by guilds, but in the end I see so many casuals in the lfg that I could sit with popcorn and enjoy clownfiesta show whole week. If you would say mythic then Id strongly agree, even if it was <10% of population, cuz its place for hardcore players.
    2.4k is glad, so its normal its only 2%. Look at how many ppl play BGs and those that try arena that are 1.2k-2k (so basically didnt quit after first 10)
    Im sorry, but I wont believe statistics that you just said. Could you link blizz post, cuz I dont see how its possible when counting active accounts. That would mean 80% of the population are roleplayers

    As I mentioned before, its usual way of WoW living. Big start, glads get glad, raiders get hall of fame mythic clear, then its time for casuals and chill. Update hits, ppl come back for new season, new raid and content. And so on. So sl being in worse state than in the launch is pretty much normal.

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2. And there are whiners everywhere, as usual.
    Addons are kinda allowed, game has almost 9 years so its too late to start implementing them, game evolved into different form.

    Let me clear some stuff up here.

    It's statistically proven that the majority of the WoW playerbase do not move past pugs, watch preach gaming he's actually partnering with a tracking site to show these statistics

    It's also proven a large majority of the game actually play 1 expansion prior the current to do the content solo instead of having to group.

    I have played wow for 16 years. I've been in thousands of guilds I've met players all the way up. Read their forums and you will quite litterally quickly learn the playerbase.

    WoW is a 16 year old game. With more collections and completionist events then any other game on the market.

    U seem so set to beleive m+ is done by the majority yet it really isn't. Why? Because alot of players disagree with the fact it's timed.

    SL heavily nerfed m+ read people's replies on it. They're actively refusing to do it. The overall recommendation is to PvP.

    The issue is If your a player in SL and playing SL actively u don't see those players and you can pretend they don't exist all u want. But the quantity of hatred preach gets kinda contradicts you.

    SL is being discussed weather it's going to be cancelled. It won't see a single content release til the same time previous expansions were on 8.2..

    Like what are you trying to argue here. WoW is at a worse point then what it was in BFA.

    SLs m+ participation numbers dropped below BFAs most dead period 4 weeks into the expansion. Lol.

    SL has bled 50% of its playerbase and 61% of its profits in the first months of its launch. Please stop trying to defend it. The numbers, the statistics, the forums, and RIO itself all prove you wrong.

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    How are u unable to see the attraction to WoW and what it's primary core playerbase is today?.

    It has the most armour sets to collect with a great transmog system. With a proper in-depth achievement UI and more. It's major appeal is how much you can collect and more.

    The game has more add-ons to track collections then it does guides lol. It's obvious where its market is. And blizzard has fallen back on that for the last 4 years.

    SL is becoming WoD 2.0, and I'm sorry but it has less content then gw2 does. Overall by a vast majority SLs loot systems and more have been rejected.

    The games bleeding at its heaviest. And the game was more popular in prepatch then it was a month after its launch.

    Towliee actually did a video where people he knows inside blizzard are terrified ATM because of how badly things are going.

    And these are long term wow players their careers are wrapped up in it, they have no reason to lie when it comes to these problems.

    4 years ago id agree with you. Back in legion. But right now the games garbage and wow players are moving to games like gw2 and FFXIV in droves.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

    Good for you continue having fun with it. I've experienced both, I've done higher than Mythic15+ before, and I used to do Fractal CMs frequently when I was more active. Fractals and raids suffer from eon long droughts of content. After you've done them all, there's not much to look forward too until after a year+ of waiting for one additional new fractal(you haven't hit this point yet). Also Fractals have a glaring flaw of not really having enough themed rewards/cosmetics for the amount of time it's been out as a replacement for dungeons. As far as my opinion goes, WoW does raiding experience better than Gw2, and at least production of repeatable PVE content(M+) better, along with rewards.

    I also experienced both i played every singe WoW expasion. For the content it self maybe, blizzard add new raids fairly quickly bit the dungeons are added only on full expasion so every 2 years, in term of gameplay experiance i personelly prefer gw2 since i am tired of all of the waiting and timegated stuff in WoW and the huge problems with the lfg system (which prevent you from enjoying the content you like to), but that is my personal point of view, please dont get me wrong i am not trying to force it .

    Have a great day!

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

    Subjective would be if I said 'I enjoy playing WoW more than gw2'. Or 'gw2 is better game than WoW'. Saying thats its doing better than gw2 means it isnt necessarily better game, just in better state in terms of keeping playerbase. But Ive already noticed that you literally must put your very own personal opinion everywhere, even if its out of context, so its fine.
    PS: you are new to the game, so its normal that you have more fun than in the game you played for X years. But look what I said and what Lucentfir said, have your fun while you still can do it, because then you'll just notice big drought of content.

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    M+ is also only done by the vast minority of the population playing WoW it's super nicht in popularity.

    Raiding is only done by the vast minority aswell.

    25-30% of WoWs population ever do heroic raiding, this including numbers from boosters and multi boxers by the end of the season.

    4% of the population do heroic raiding during its initial release era.

    M+ has the same statistics.

    PvP only 2% of the population get to 2.4k.

    I mean this is a problem in both games. Very little of the "end content" is done. Most players sit in queuable content and solo content. Hence why SL is bleeding so hard.

    Because it's casual playerbase don't want to play the game anymore.

    I'd agree in the past, WoW offered more. But since they recently ramped the raid difficulty above the averages WoW ability to cater to the bleeding edge. And have turned m+ into a major eSports centric enviroment.

    No ones doing the content anymore. SL raid launch ahs destroyed a vast amount of their guilds.

    Look on the forum sometime I assure you it's not doing as good as you think.

    As far as I'm aware add-ons are allowed in gw2? It's a simple case of no ones making them. Not that they can't make them

    The hell are you talking about?
    Everyone is doing M+, I dont know a single person that doesnt. Maybe casuals dont do 15+ for meta gear, but up to 10 is done by everyone.
    Hc in the beginning is done by guilds, but in the end I see so many casuals in the lfg that I could sit with popcorn and enjoy clownfiesta show whole week. If you would say mythic then Id strongly agree, even if it was <10% of population, cuz its place for hardcore players.
    2.4k is glad, so its normal its only 2%. Look at how many ppl play BGs and those that try arena that are 1.2k-2k (so basically didnt quit after first 10)
    Im sorry, but I wont believe statistics that you just said. Could you link blizz post, cuz I dont see how its possible when counting active accounts. That would mean 80% of the population are roleplayers

    As I mentioned before, its usual way of WoW living. Big start, glads get glad, raiders get hall of fame mythic clear, then its time for casuals and chill. Update hits, ppl come back for new season, new raid and content. And so on. So sl being in worse state than in the launch is pretty much normal.

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2. And there are whiners everywhere, as usual.
    Addons are kinda allowed, game has almost 9 years so its too late to start implementing them, game evolved into different form.

    Let me clear some stuff up here.

    It's statistically proven that the majority of the WoW playerbase do not move past pugs, watch preach gaming he's actually partnering with a tracking site to show these statistics

    It's also proven a large majority of the game actually play 1 expansion prior the current to do the content solo instead of having to group.

    I have played wow for 16 years. I've been in thousands of guilds I've met players all the way up. Read their forums and you will quite litterally quickly learn the playerbase.

    WoW is a 16 year old game. With more collections and completionist events then any other game on the market.

    U seem so set to beleive m+ is done by the majority yet it really isn't. Why? Because alot of players disagree with the fact it's timed.

    SL heavily nerfed m+ read people's replies on it. They're actively refusing to do it. The overall recommendation is to PvP.

    The issue is If your a player in SL and playing SL actively u don't see those players and you can pretend they don't exist all u want. But the quantity of hatred preach gets kinda contradicts you.

    SL is being discussed weather it's going to be cancelled. It won't see a single content release til the same time previous expansions were on 8.2..

    Like what are you trying to argue here. WoW is at a worse point then what it was in BFA.

    SLs m+ participation numbers dropped below BFAs most dead period 4 weeks into the expansion. Lol.

    SL has bled 50% of its playerbase and 61% of its profits in the first months of its launch. Please stop trying to defend it. The numbers, the statistics, the forums, and RIO itself all prove you wrong.

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    How are u unable to see the attraction to WoW and what it's primary core playerbase is today?.

    It has the most armour sets to collect with a great transmog system. With a proper in-depth achievement UI and more. It's major appeal is how much you can collect and more.

    The game has more add-ons to track collections then it does guides lol. It's obvious where its market is. And blizzard has fallen back on that for the last 4 years.

    SL is becoming WoD 2.0, and I'm sorry but it has less content then gw2 does. Overall by a vast majority SLs loot systems and more have been rejected.

    The games bleeding at its heaviest. And the game was more popular in prepatch then it was a month after its launch.

    Towliee actually did a video where people he knows inside blizzard are terrified ATM because of how badly things are going.

    And these are long term wow players their careers are wrapped up in it, they have no reason to lie when it comes to these problems.

    4 years ago id agree with you. Back in legion. But right now the games garbage and wow players are moving to games like gw2 and FFXIV in droves.

    I have played WoW since beginning of TBC, theres no need for me to go to the forums. I asked for statistics provided by blizz, because I know what I see while playing. Theres no way that someone playing even 2h a day wont do m+ or even first 3 hc bosses before next raid release. No way. This content has no entry threshold, even roleplayers do those. Collections surely is main reason to play for some ppl, but raids also offer those.
    It is bleeding. Each MMO is bleeding. But bro, imo it isnt even close to fiesta that it was during WoD. If youre following statistics so hard then you should know how it looks every expansions between raid/season releases. And Asmon doing transmog competitions...Hes been doing that for god knows how long, ppl like it, he likes, he is not even close to be good at pvp or pve so why wouldnt he do it xD.
    What content has gw2? Im asking as person that played gw2 simultaneously, since the very beginning, most legends, PvP titles, infusions worth dozens of thousands gold and so on. Only thing that I can do is WvW or sometimes PvP for fun, theres no competition because there are no rewards. First few years surely, but after that theres just no point, WoW is twice as old and you still find things to do and in what you can compete with others.

    Funny thing is that there ARE wow players that have their careers wrapped around MMO. GW2 also had those, eons ago, but while WoW ones might now be in danger, gw2 ones just left long ago. And about leaving to gw2 or ffxiv...I dont know about ffxiv because havent played that, but I know tons of ppl that are leaving gw2 for wow and staying there or just quitting mmo's, meanwhile the other way around is just....too rare. Like asmon chat you mentioned, he often asks about other mmo's. Ppl say that gw2 could be best with its combat mechanic, but then when he asks whether they play it they simply say no. They rather watch someone playing WoW than play gw2 themselves.

    I wont disagree that any of those games have no issues, but hey, at least one of them doesnt feel like half-cementary when you remember how it used to look.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

    Subjective would be if I said 'I enjoy playing WoW more than gw2'. Or 'gw2 is better game than WoW'. Saying thats its doing better than gw2 means it isnt necessarily better game, just in better state in terms of keeping playerbase. But Ive already noticed that you literally must put your very own personal opinion everywhere, even if its out of context, so its fine.

    What is the problem you have with me stating my opinion?

    just in better state in terms of keeping playerbase.

    Thats something which i disagree with, the higher player base does not necessarily means that they are better in keeping the player base. WoW lost 42% of its player base over 2 months period, according to some statistics which you probably already know ...

    The player base might be higher just because more people like tap targeting combat instead of action based , WoW in my opinion is doing very poor job of keeping players playing the game, because of the gearing system, pvp balance , borrowed powers , mandatory contents and so on, but i agree with you that gw2 would be in much better state if they added/updated their content more frequently and thats something which i advocated for in other posts too.

    but I know tons of ppl that are leaving gw2 for wow

    well i know a lot of ppl which also do the opposite (me included ), without official statistics and numbers which show how much people leave/transfer exactly , such sentences are just pointless in my opinion. ofcourse there will be people which leave gw2 and go in WoW and also the oposite depends on what they are searching for in the game. In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content.. Overall both games a great and have their own positivities and negativities

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content..

    Congratulations, you see my point. Casual playstyle. So basically you could play RPG and that would be the very same. Theres no endgame, ANet just abandoned it. Sad thing is that it isnt only about PvP or WvW, its about PvE too. All you can do when they release new 'content' is to do it in one day and then just grind achievs or whatever, sometimes timegated. Thats it, just like you would play solo RPG.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content..

    Congratulations, you see my point. Casual playstyle. So basically you could play RPG and that would be the very same. Theres no endgame, ANet just abandoned it. Sad thing is that it isnt only about PvP or WvW, its about PvE too. All you can do when they release new 'content' is to do it in one day and then just grind achievs or whatever, sometimes timegated. Thats it, just like you would play solo RPG.

    I am doing raids every week and fractions almost every day, with friends and so on. Same thing which you would do in WoW, dungeons or raids. All people which i know in gw2 are doing fractals or raids , its just not that time consuming as in WoW so i dont see where is the difference between the games in that matter?

    The difference is that WoW have more difficulty levels of same content and the dungeons and raids are designed to be more time consuming, which means that you are forced to spend more hours in the game and makes it more casual unfriendly (not always a good or bad thing depends on the point of view). WoW have more collectables in that regards i would say that wow is much more like playing Solo RPG after you finish mythic 15 and raids , which are finished also very fast after expansion release .

  • Lucentfir.7430Lucentfir.7430 Member ✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content..

    Congratulations, you see my point. Casual playstyle. So basically you could play RPG and that would be the very same. Theres no endgame, ANet just abandoned it. Sad thing is that it isnt only about PvP or WvW, its about PvE too. All you can do when they release new 'content' is to do it in one day and then just grind achievs or whatever, sometimes timegated. Thats it, just like you would play solo RPG.

    I am doing raids every week and fractions almost every day, with friends and so on. Same thing which you would do in WoW, dungeons or raids. All people which i know in gw2 are doing fractals or raids , its just not that time consuming as in WoW so i dont see where is the difference between the games in that matter?

    The difference is that WoW have more difficulty levels of same content and the dungeons and raids are designed to be more time consuming, which means that you are forced to spend more hours in the game and makes it more casual unfriendly (not always a good or bad thing depends on the point of view). WoW have more collectables in that regards i would say that wow is much more like playing Solo RPG after you finish mythic 15 and raids , which are finished also very fast after expansion release .

    You're new there's a lot of old content for you to do, take it from someone that has near 23k hours logged into this game and has played every facet of Gw2 to death. The content is finite. you'll hit that point eventually, but for the time being enjoy it. Once you hit that point you'll see what we're talking about and the many gripes of Gw2.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content..

    Congratulations, you see my point. Casual playstyle. So basically you could play RPG and that would be the very same. Theres no endgame, ANet just abandoned it. Sad thing is that it isnt only about PvP or WvW, its about PvE too. All you can do when they release new 'content' is to do it in one day and then just grind achievs or whatever, sometimes timegated. Thats it, just like you would play solo RPG.

    I am doing raids every week and fractions almost every day, with friends and so on. Same thing which you would do in WoW, dungeons or raids. All people which i know in gw2 are doing fractals or raids , its just not that time consuming as in WoW so i dont see where is the difference between the games in that matter?

    The difference is that WoW have more difficulty levels of same content and the dungeons and raids are designed to be more time consuming, which means that you are forced to spend more hours in the game and makes it more casual unfriendly (not always a good or bad thing depends on the point of view). WoW have more collectables in that regards i would say that wow is much more like playing Solo RPG after you finish mythic 15 and raids , which are finished also very fast after expansion release .

    You're new there's a lot of old content for you to do, take it from someone that has near 23k hours logged into this game and has played every facet of Gw2 to death. The content is finite. you'll hit that point eventually, but for the time being enjoy it. Once you hit that point you'll see what we're talking about and the many gripes of Gw2.

    Ofcourse it is finite , and i dont argue with that, what i am saying is that the content is finite in WoW too, and the WoW content becomes boring the same way as in GW2. The only difference which i see is that the endgame content in WoW is more casual unfriendly than the one in GW2 , but updated more frequently than the one in GW2

    Once you hit that point you'll see what we're talking about and the many gripes of Gw2.

    I hited that exact point in WoW (which is one of the reasons i left WoW)

    So i believe i understand you pretty well, the only thing which i disagreed is that WoW is doing better way too keep the player base and that GW2 end-game content is "non existent" which is not the case in my opinion. What WoW is doing better in my opinion is to hype up the player base to return for few months and then leave again.

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2.

    that is subjective, i personally prefer fractals instead of WoW dungeons and gw2 raid instead of wow raids i find them more fun for me.

    Subjective would be if I said 'I enjoy playing WoW more than gw2'. Or 'gw2 is better game than WoW'. Saying thats its doing better than gw2 means it isnt necessarily better game, just in better state in terms of keeping playerbase. But Ive already noticed that you literally must put your very own personal opinion everywhere, even if its out of context, so its fine.
    PS: you are new to the game, so its normal that you have more fun than in the game you played for X years. But look what I said and what Lucentfir said, have your fun while you still can do it, because then you'll just notice big drought of content.

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    This 'best combat system' sentence should be put right below 'Guild Wars2' on top of the forum site, the most often used argument.
    I mean, I agree, its good. But wouldnt say best, its different, it works, nice. There are other mmo's with different combat system but that doesn't mean theyre bad, just different. Pick your poison. Anyway as tyler1 video said, if you need to stick (addicted) to a game only because it offers combat system that you like the most and meanwhile company is straight forward killing it, its kinda yikes if u ask me. Stay stronk

    I wonder what makes you believe that i am or the others playing the game are "addicted" ... I like the combat system, i like the game, it relaxes me after work and i am having tons of fun in it thats why i play it. For me it has the best combat system and the closest thing to a real balance which i have seen in a mmorpg. If you dont like it then find something which you like and play it, simple as that.

    Did I say that YOU are addicted? I said 'IF you', which means that doesnt apply to everyone, but some people. Trust me, I know tons of people that have already left, or still stay around, that only reason they play gw2 is because of the combat system. Addiction was used as a quote from the video, but during many talks with other people that word was used as well, ppl get addicted to gw2 cuz they have no other options, they dont like WoW casting time, BDO p2w etc. so their only option is gw2 and waiting for new upcoming (hopefully) options.
    You have fun playing the game? Wow bro, nice, keep it up and have fun!

    Also i would like to ask what makes you believe that anet are "killing" their own game?

    I see you have 2 stars and barely 100 comments. I know how it feels for new guy to play gw2, it actually looks like the best game and will surely bring you joy for quite a few months. Problem starts with older players that just got bored or frustrated cuz of balance or lack of content issues. Stick around buddy, see decision making (or rather lack of it) from ANet side and you'll understand

    I'd like to state.

    Fractals + raids + BG. It's basically inline with exactly what WoW SL offers, a expansion double the price of GW2s. And demanding a subscription fee.

    FFXIV offers u trials, a 100 floor dungeon runner and a gambling area + raids.

    We have the mystic fountain and ecto gambling.

    Yet again FFXIV is a sub based game and it's expansions are far more expensive then gw2.

    Regardless whatever u wanna beleive. GW2 is the best money value the genre offers

    The quantity of content is competitive against what the market delievers. The thing is like most mmorpgs people join them to do the part of the game they enjoy and don't do everything.

    If you only do 1 or 2 parts of the content ofcourse it's going to be small. Mmorpgs are built as a rounded product which is susposed to be participated in every way.

    You can blame "niavity of the new player" but it's true. LoL has survived 10 years delieveribg the exact same repeatitive PvP mantra on the same maps. With the same dodgey balancing.

    It's why PvP is the best content a game can offer effectively. It requires minimal amounts of new content. Because effectively the participation is the content.

    If your doing map completion. Mastery completion, doing SPVP doing WvWvW doing fractals, doing raids, doing DRMs, doing dungeons, engaging with other players, doing open world events, creating legendaries Ur effectively got tons of content to Do and every expansions effectively layering ontop more to do.

    You will eventually complete everything if your playing alot of hours every day. But that's the same in every mmorpg. Every mmorpg has the same dip in population.

    You eventually feel like you have "completed" everything. But there's always something u could work on. Rank. 1 pvper is open for a grind for 99% of the playerbase.

    WoWs content relies on people farming a score created by a 3rd party website to retain its players effectively

    You have your opinion, I have mine, and thats fine, thats how the world is created. But Id like to adress WoW that you mentioned.

    In matter of casual play I agree that both games are pretty much the same. Here you have world completition, mastery, two mounts meta achievs, story, fashionwars and so on. There you have achievs, garrison, transmogs, story, items, mounts, collections and so on.

    But when it comes to endgame, I cant see much comparison. In gw2 what you have is fractals that are really barely touched since X years and not much changed, raids that are so niche that I dont even know if >5% of the playerbase does them (also not being updated), story updates that can be done in less than one day and then its just pure grind, sPvP that has so many issues that ppl dont really take leaderboard and rating seriously and at last WvW, mode that is alive only because ppl take care of it. So basically if you want challenges, you usually have to make them yourself (solo'ing fractals, raids in less amount of ppl etc.)
    WoW has higher price, yes, but when it comes to content I think its quite worth it (also you can just buy monthly sub with gold, so it isnt big issue). In terms of endgame you have M+ that is like fractals but better, AND you can compete with other players. You have raids that are released every X months, 3(4) modes, lots of bosses, loot worth your time AND you can compete with other players (or just do achievs, mounts, transmogs). And the best in those 2 is that pretty much everyone is doing both of them, either you play casually 2h a day or 8h hardcore grind. Then you have PvP with mmr system that is pretty much working, and also you can play it casually or compete with others, climb ladder and get rewards (title each season, very rare mount and ofc gear).

    I see your point and I agree that lots of WoW content is provided by 3rd party websites, but thats how this game was created 17 years ago. If gw2 was more friendly to addons maybe we would achieve similar state. But overall, if I think about endgame that both games offer, gw2 is just not rewarding in correct way because its made as casual game. Meta is stable with minor changes, some modes are played only by niche playerbase, unaccessable by most (eg. raids), and updates provide content for 1 day at best except additional grind (and no, that isnt because of EoD inc, it was like that way before). Its fun game for few first years, but the way ANet treats veterans is just disgusting, either in terms of PvE or PvP (/wave @ WvW).
    Also, I agree that at some point you feel that you just completed everything, happens in every MMO (maybe except koreans XD). But I know tons of ppl that take a break from WoW till next raid/season and then they come back. In contrast, I cant remember single situation where any of my friends came back to gw2 because of any update made by ANet.

    M+ is also only done by the vast minority of the population playing WoW it's super nicht in popularity.

    Raiding is only done by the vast minority aswell.

    25-30% of WoWs population ever do heroic raiding, this including numbers from boosters and multi boxers by the end of the season.

    4% of the population do heroic raiding during its initial release era.

    M+ has the same statistics.

    PvP only 2% of the population get to 2.4k.

    I mean this is a problem in both games. Very little of the "end content" is done. Most players sit in queuable content and solo content. Hence why SL is bleeding so hard.

    Because it's casual playerbase don't want to play the game anymore.

    I'd agree in the past, WoW offered more. But since they recently ramped the raid difficulty above the averages WoW ability to cater to the bleeding edge. And have turned m+ into a major eSports centric enviroment.

    No ones doing the content anymore. SL raid launch ahs destroyed a vast amount of their guilds.

    Look on the forum sometime I assure you it's not doing as good as you think.

    As far as I'm aware add-ons are allowed in gw2? It's a simple case of no ones making them. Not that they can't make them

    The hell are you talking about?
    Everyone is doing M+, I dont know a single person that doesnt. Maybe casuals dont do 15+ for meta gear, but up to 10 is done by everyone.
    Hc in the beginning is done by guilds, but in the end I see so many casuals in the lfg that I could sit with popcorn and enjoy clownfiesta show whole week. If you would say mythic then Id strongly agree, even if it was <10% of population, cuz its place for hardcore players.
    2.4k is glad, so its normal its only 2%. Look at how many ppl play BGs and those that try arena that are 1.2k-2k (so basically didnt quit after first 10)
    Im sorry, but I wont believe statistics that you just said. Could you link blizz post, cuz I dont see how its possible when counting active accounts. That would mean 80% of the population are roleplayers

    As I mentioned before, its usual way of WoW living. Big start, glads get glad, raiders get hall of fame mythic clear, then its time for casuals and chill. Update hits, ppl come back for new season, new raid and content. And so on. So sl being in worse state than in the launch is pretty much normal.

    Im not saying its doing good, but definetly better than gw2. And there are whiners everywhere, as usual.
    Addons are kinda allowed, game has almost 9 years so its too late to start implementing them, game evolved into different form.

    Let me clear some stuff up here.

    It's statistically proven that the majority of the WoW playerbase do not move past pugs, watch preach gaming he's actually partnering with a tracking site to show these statistics

    It's also proven a large majority of the game actually play 1 expansion prior the current to do the content solo instead of having to group.

    I have played wow for 16 years. I've been in thousands of guilds I've met players all the way up. Read their forums and you will quite litterally quickly learn the playerbase.

    WoW is a 16 year old game. With more collections and completionist events then any other game on the market.

    U seem so set to beleive m+ is done by the majority yet it really isn't. Why? Because alot of players disagree with the fact it's timed.

    SL heavily nerfed m+ read people's replies on it. They're actively refusing to do it. The overall recommendation is to PvP.

    The issue is If your a player in SL and playing SL actively u don't see those players and you can pretend they don't exist all u want. But the quantity of hatred preach gets kinda contradicts you.

    SL is being discussed weather it's going to be cancelled. It won't see a single content release til the same time previous expansions were on 8.2..

    Like what are you trying to argue here. WoW is at a worse point then what it was in BFA.

    SLs m+ participation numbers dropped below BFAs most dead period 4 weeks into the expansion. Lol.

    SL has bled 50% of its playerbase and 61% of its profits in the first months of its launch. Please stop trying to defend it. The numbers, the statistics, the forums, and RIO itself all prove you wrong.

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    How are u unable to see the attraction to WoW and what it's primary core playerbase is today?.

    It has the most armour sets to collect with a great transmog system. With a proper in-depth achievement UI and more. It's major appeal is how much you can collect and more.

    The game has more add-ons to track collections then it does guides lol. It's obvious where its market is. And blizzard has fallen back on that for the last 4 years.

    SL is becoming WoD 2.0, and I'm sorry but it has less content then gw2 does. Overall by a vast majority SLs loot systems and more have been rejected.

    The games bleeding at its heaviest. And the game was more popular in prepatch then it was a month after its launch.

    Towliee actually did a video where people he knows inside blizzard are terrified ATM because of how badly things are going.

    And these are long term wow players their careers are wrapped up in it, they have no reason to lie when it comes to these problems.

    4 years ago id agree with you. Back in legion. But right now the games garbage and wow players are moving to games like gw2 and FFXIV in droves.

    I have played WoW since beginning of TBC, theres no need for me to go to the forums. I asked for statistics provided by blizz, because I know what I see while playing. Theres no way that someone playing even 2h a day wont do m+ or even first 3 hc bosses before next raid release. No way. This content has no entry threshold, even roleplayers do those. Collections surely is main reason to play for some ppl, but raids also offer those.
    It is bleeding. Each MMO is bleeding. But bro, imo it isnt even close to fiesta that it was during WoD. If youre following statistics so hard then you should know how it looks every expansions between raid/season releases. And Asmon doing transmog competitions...Hes been doing that for god knows how long, ppl like it, he likes, he is not even close to be good at pvp or pve so why wouldnt he do it xD.
    What content has gw2? Im asking as person that played gw2 simultaneously, since the very beginning, most legends, PvP titles, infusions worth dozens of thousands gold and so on. Only thing that I can do is WvW or sometimes PvP for fun, theres no competition because there are no rewards. First few years surely, but after that theres just no point, WoW is twice as old and you still find things to do and in what you can compete with others.

    Funny thing is that there ARE wow players that have their careers wrapped around MMO. GW2 also had those, eons ago, but while WoW ones might now be in danger, gw2 ones just left long ago. And about leaving to gw2 or ffxiv...I dont know about ffxiv because havent played that, but I know tons of ppl that are leaving gw2 for wow and staying there or just quitting mmo's, meanwhile the other way around is just....too rare. Like asmon chat you mentioned, he often asks about other mmo's. Ppl say that gw2 could be best with its combat mechanic, but then when he asks whether they play it they simply say no. They rather watch someone playing WoW than play gw2 themselves.

    I wont disagree that any of those games have no issues, but hey, at least one of them doesnt feel like half-cementary when you remember how it used to look.

    I wouldn't call asmongold a wow streamer anymore very little of his content involves wow gameplay. Only 11% of his viewership play WoW.

    And yes I agree eSports in WoW is much larger. But it's also ruining that game. So it's not all that good

    The games old content is far more popular then the games new content. And WoWs playerbase is a cemetery compared to what it was. They do well with sales. Because people are nostalgic about the game however it's classic versions are 100x more popular.

    Census puts m+s audience at 500k on its peak launchs. And a dwindle to lower then 100k when it's hypes over.

    WoWs playerbase starts at about 4millipn and drops to 2 million over time between launchs.

    It's very obvious from these numbers the majority aren't doing m+. Rio tracks every account in m+. It has the numbers for those who involve themselves with it. Even if you aren't logging or apart of any logs. Your on there.

    I'm sorry.

    But the numbers speak for themselves and even WoW players admit it. There's a reason why SL has bled over 50% of its population within a month.

    You can say u don't understand it all you want. But WoW has 16 years of collectibles and the end game to WoW has been seen as transmog for a long time now.

    During WoD was when the playerbase massively flipped.

    Boosting has become so popular because players will buy themselves through content and not just do it.

    WoW is built on spamming the same dungeons and raids on repeat for 2 years just like gw2 at premise this is accurate.

    Wow doesn't bring any more content to the game then gw2.

    M+ is effectively fractals.
    Raids are raids.
    Open world is open World.

    You get the players who play for fun who play for fun.
    You get the players who play til they "complete" what they won't and go on break.
    You get the players who won't like the game.

    And as I said there are many times in the past where WoW was simply the better option. I'm just saying SL ain't it lol.

  • tacoclaw.8251tacoclaw.8251 Member ✭✭✭

    No monthly fee and no gear grind. I’ll take it. I turned off all chat and text bubbles to get rid of the toxic element and that made a huge positive difference. Harder to coordinate but I don’t care.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

    I understand the concept just fine, I just take the opposing position. Newer players need to give some stock to others' opinions. They're new! They've never played before. They don't know how what, where, why, when, how the game is. They simply don't have the experience to make an accurate or more complete judgement of a game.

    I also stick by my position on gw2. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, what with all the bots, lack of population, bad matchmaking, then mmopvp's are done, they've lost. It's over. There is simply no way that gw2(or any other mmorpg for that matter) competes with battle royale games, FPS and RTS, games that are much better made with respect to multiplayer.

    Finally, mmos. All this discussion about ff14, WoW, and gw2 shows me that mmorpgs are on an irreversible decline. mmos, as with online games, are critically dependant on population and the quality of communities to function. And they've pretty much lost population to battle royale games. mmos had their era in the 2000s, but those days aren't coming back. I look at it like this, when an mmo declines one of two things happen: it goes on automated life-support supported by a niche holdover community(gw1 for example) where the game is basically all-but-dead in a vegetative state or it gets the axe. Either way, that mmo will never be the same again, it will never be as popular as it once was. It will be a shell. People and communities eventually move on to other things. People need to accept the fact that one of the two things may happen to their mmo of choice, despite the hours and time they've spent on it.

    Edit: The last sentence is a key reason why I don't invest in mmos as much as I used to. People just end up investing more than what they get out of it and it's going to decline anyway! mmos simply do not respect your time. gw does do a better job at this, but at the end of the day it's still an mmo.

  • frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭

    I like PvP, my PC cannot run better MMOS, and in WvW my duels are constantly interrupted by jerks. I just can pray to the broken algorythm to not match me with braindeads, bots, or wintraders and have a little fun?

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    In my opinion for casual play and multicharacter playing GW2 is better option, because there much less grind required in order to be viable in the high end content (in terms of pvp you dont even need to level and farm gear). For hardcore play WoW is probably the better option because it has more content..

    Congratulations, you see my point. Casual playstyle. So basically you could play RPG and that would be the very same. Theres no endgame, ANet just abandoned it. Sad thing is that it isnt only about PvP or WvW, its about PvE too. All you can do when they release new 'content' is to do it in one day and then just grind achievs or whatever, sometimes timegated. Thats it, just like you would play solo RPG.

    I am doing raids every week and fractions almost every day, with friends and so on. Same thing which you would do in WoW, dungeons or raids. All people which i know in gw2 are doing fractals or raids , its just not that time consuming as in WoW so i dont see where is the difference between the games in that matter?

    The difference is that WoW have more difficulty levels of same content and the dungeons and raids are designed to be more time consuming, which means that you are forced to spend more hours in the game and makes it more casual unfriendly (not always a good or bad thing depends on the point of view). WoW have more collectables in that regards i would say that wow is much more like playing Solo RPG after you finish mythic 15 and raids , which are finished also very fast after expansion release .

    You're new there's a lot of old content for you to do, take it from someone that has near 23k hours logged into this game and has played every facet of Gw2 to death. The content is finite. you'll hit that point eventually, but for the time being enjoy it. Once you hit that point you'll see what we're talking about and the many gripes of Gw2.

    Ofcourse it is finite , and i dont argue with that, what i am saying is that the content is finite in WoW too, and the WoW content becomes boring the same way as in GW2. The only difference which i see is that the endgame content in WoW is more casual unfriendly than the one in GW2 , but updated more frequently than the one in GW2

    Once you hit that point you'll see what we're talking about and the many gripes of Gw2.

    I hited that exact point in WoW (which is one of the reasons i left WoW)

    So i believe i understand you pretty well, the only thing which i disagreed is that WoW is doing better way too keep the player base and that GW2 end-game content is "non existent" which is not the case in my opinion. What WoW is doing better in my opinion is to hype up the player base to return for few months and then leave again.

    My issue with current WoW is that it invalidates the previous patch completely, new raid comes boom all the new expansion stuff disappears its only the new patch stuff that matters, whatever you did doesn't matter here get your catch up gear at this point it works like GW 2 but worse since it is kinda horizontal with the free loot but with heavy grind to get them +5% to +10% damage from RNG drops, ou and do our kitten new thing to get them islands towers or whatever, you can't skip it even if its boring.
    Blizzard have one really big thing over Arenanet Marketing. They can sell ice to the Inuit, they did get away with supporting human right violations, that is kitten next level.

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 10, 2021

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

    I understand the concept just fine, I just take the opposing position. Newer players need to give some stock to others' opinions. They're new! They've never played before. They don't know how what, where, why, when, how the game is. They simply don't have the experience to make an accurate or more complete judgement of a game.

    I also stick by my position on gw2. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, what with all the bots, lack of population, bad matchmaking, then mmopvp's are done, they've lost. It's over. There is simply no way that gw2(or any other mmorpg for that matter) competes with battle royale games, FPS and RTS, games that are much better made with respect to multiplayer.

    Finally, mmos. All this discussion about ff14, WoW, and gw2 shows me that mmorpgs are on an irreversible decline. mmos, as with online games, are critically dependant on population and the quality of communities to function. And they've pretty much lost population to battle royale games. mmos had their era in the 2000s, but those days aren't coming back. I look at it like this, when an mmo declines one of two things happen: it goes on automated life-support supported by a niche holdover community(gw1 for example) where the game is basically all-but-dead in a vegetative state or it gets the axe. Either way, that mmo will never be the same again, it will never be as popular as it once was. It will be a shell. People and communities eventually move on to other things. People need to accept the fact that one of the two things may happen to their mmo of choice, despite the hours and time they've spent on it.

    Edit: The last sentence is a key reason why I don't invest in mmos as much as I used to. People just end up investing more than what they get out of it and it's going to decline anyway! mmos simply do not respect your time. gw does do a better job at this, but at the end of the day it's still an mmo.

    Mmorpg PvP has been dead for a decade you are soo far late with such a statement. I don't know if you have reliesed but a massive amount of companies have gone to lengths to build prior PvP genre games..

    GW2 has bots.
    ESO has instability and bots
    Wow has excessive use of boosting.
    Rifts Devs litterally stated they aren't going to try balance PvP anymore. And removed support for it.
    FFXIV don't have a PvP scene to start with.
    Most Asian mmorpgs are litteral a handful of whales 1 shotting each other.

    GW2 having interesting classes and good combat gives gw2 a half decent PvP experience on the side of also having open world content and PvE options.

    If your here only for PvP. I question to exactly why... Mmorpgs are the worst form of main PvP you could likely access..

    Look at even streamers. Majority of the PvP focused players are gone.. u just see variety streamers on gw2 now. And that's because that's what it does well.

    Being able to log on and enjoy some PvP or PvE content with some friends in a enviroment which doesn't push chores on you.

    Mmorpgs aren't on a decline. PvP in mmorpgs are on the decline because of how many new genres and more surround PvP as a only end game.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

    I understand the concept just fine, I just take the opposing position. Newer players need to give some stock to others' opinions. They're new! They've never played before. They don't know how what, where, why, when, how the game is. They simply don't have the experience to make an accurate or more complete judgement of a game.

    I also stick by my position on gw2. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, what with all the bots, lack of population, bad matchmaking, then mmopvp's are done, they've lost. It's over. There is simply no way that gw2(or any other mmorpg for that matter) competes with battle royale games, FPS and RTS, games that are much better made with respect to multiplayer.

    Finally, mmos. All this discussion about ff14, WoW, and gw2 shows me that mmorpgs are on an irreversible decline. mmos, as with online games, are critically dependant on population and the quality of communities to function. And they've pretty much lost population to battle royale games. mmos had their era in the 2000s, but those days aren't coming back. I look at it like this, when an mmo declines one of two things happen: it goes on automated life-support supported by a niche holdover community(gw1 for example) where the game is basically all-but-dead in a vegetative state or it gets the axe. Either way, that mmo will never be the same again, it will never be as popular as it once was. It will be a shell. People and communities eventually move on to other things. People need to accept the fact that one of the two things may happen to their mmo of choice, despite the hours and time they've spent on it.

    Edit: The last sentence is a key reason why I don't invest in mmos as much as I used to. People just end up investing more than what they get out of it and it's going to decline anyway! mmos simply do not respect your time. gw does do a better job at this, but at the end of the day it's still an mmo.

    Mmorpg PvP has been dead for a decade you are soo far late with such a statement. I don't know if you have reliesed but a massive amount of companies have gone to lengths to build prior PvP genre games..

    GW2 has bots.
    ESO has instability and bots
    Wow has excessive use of boosting.
    Rifts Devs litterally stated they aren't going to try balance PvP anymore. And removed support for it.
    FFXIV don't have a PvP scene to start with.
    Most Asian mmorpgs are litteral a handful of whales 1 shotting each other.

    GW2 having interesting classes and good combat gives gw2 a half decent PvP experience on the side of also having open world content and PvE options.

    If your here only for PvP. I question to exactly why... Mmorpgs are the worst form of main PvP you could likely access..

    Look at even streamers. Majority of the PvP focused players are gone.. u just see variety streamers on gw2 now. And that's because that's what it does well.

    Being able to log on and enjoy some PvP or PvE content with some friends in a enviroment which doesn't push chores on you.

    Mmorpgs aren't on a decline. PvP in mmorpgs are on the decline because of how many new genres and more surround PvP as a only end game.

    This^ if u like pvp play why the f.... would u chose a mmo for such as they are literally the worst version of pvp u could play.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2021

    It isn't bunker meta but it feels like bunker meta.

    There's a good reason why that's the case. Cooldowns are getting higher, dps builds are getting nerfed left and right. Nade holo, Herald, Renegade, burn DH, Soulbeast, every iteration of dps ele... We're reaching a point where you deal less dps for picking dps traits than you deal for picking sustain traits.

    Take renegade for example. We recently nerfed vindication, significantly reducing the amount of might stacks they get to run around with. Yes, this toned down the rediculous damage they did with sevenshot, but this also starts to encourage renegades to trait into Righteous Rebel over Vindication.

    35% damage reduction to condi damage lets you stay in fights longer against condition builds. More time alive = more damage dealt.

    On Holo, we nerfed nades... Several times, with the last nerf arguably being a bit more than was necessary. Yes, it toned down a build that was overperforming relative to everything else, but it also encouraged Holos to start running tankier utilities over grenades. We're starting to see more Elixir Gun, Slick shoes, Elixir U and Elixir S.

    And of course you have thieves running SA over DA or CS

    Little changes like this add up over time, resulting in a sort of death by a thousand cuts (or death by a thousand nerfs). With each nerf to dps the game gets more bunekry.
    Players start to see fewer payoffs for good plays in terms of damage dealth, making it feel like their abilities have little impact. So they say "bunker meta" when in reality dealing dps simply feels unrewarding right now.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

    I understand the concept just fine, I just take the opposing position. Newer players need to give some stock to others' opinions. They're new! They've never played before. They don't know how what, where, why, when, how the game is. They simply don't have the experience to make an accurate or more complete judgement of a game.

    I also stick by my position on gw2. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, what with all the bots, lack of population, bad matchmaking, then mmopvp's are done, they've lost. It's over. There is simply no way that gw2(or any other mmorpg for that matter) competes with battle royale games, FPS and RTS, games that are much better made with respect to multiplayer.

    Finally, mmos. All this discussion about ff14, WoW, and gw2 shows me that mmorpgs are on an irreversible decline. mmos, as with online games, are critically dependant on population and the quality of communities to function. And they've pretty much lost population to battle royale games. mmos had their era in the 2000s, but those days aren't coming back. I look at it like this, when an mmo declines one of two things happen: it goes on automated life-support supported by a niche holdover community(gw1 for example) where the game is basically all-but-dead in a vegetative state or it gets the axe. Either way, that mmo will never be the same again, it will never be as popular as it once was. It will be a shell. People and communities eventually move on to other things. People need to accept the fact that one of the two things may happen to their mmo of choice, despite the hours and time they've spent on it.

    Edit: The last sentence is a key reason why I don't invest in mmos as much as I used to. People just end up investing more than what they get out of it and it's going to decline anyway! mmos simply do not respect your time. gw does do a better job at this, but at the end of the day it's still an mmo.

    Mmorpg PvP has been dead for a decade you are soo far late with such a statement. I don't know if you have reliesed but a massive amount of companies have gone to lengths to build prior PvP genre games..

    GW2 has bots.
    ESO has instability and bots
    Wow has excessive use of boosting.
    Rifts Devs litterally stated they aren't going to try balance PvP anymore. And removed support for it.
    FFXIV don't have a PvP scene to start with.
    Most Asian mmorpgs are litteral a handful of whales 1 shotting each other.

    GW2 having interesting classes and good combat gives gw2 a half decent PvP experience on the side of also having open world content and PvE options.

    If your here only for PvP. I question to exactly why... Mmorpgs are the worst form of main PvP you could likely access..

    Look at even streamers. Majority of the PvP focused players are gone.. u just see variety streamers on gw2 now. And that's because that's what it does well.

    Being able to log on and enjoy some PvP or PvE content with some friends in a enviroment which doesn't push chores on you.

    Mmorpgs aren't on a decline. PvP in mmorpgs are on the decline because of how many new genres and more surround PvP as a only end game.

    First off, no I am not late. mmorpg pvp still had life then due to the investment in "esports" and ranked leagues which brought a short spike of players for a time in order to compete with other rising genres. (See core gw2 and HoT) Now it's dead. Second, I already quit. I am not in this for pvp whatsoever. Were it that people actually READ before they post, I've said as such.

    Honestly, I'm really only in this for the living world and the trickle of friends that still play gw2. I've done everything else...for years! (I think 8k hours is enough don't you think!) And no, mmo's in general are in decline. pve included. pve is simply in better shape because of all the money being invested in putting out cosmetics and occasional content. That, at the very least, maintains the game. But just like resources have dried up for pvp, there's no reason to think that they won't dry up for pve as well.

    Again, if WoW is struggling mightily, imagine everything else.

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @voltaicbore.8012 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    The largest wow streamer does transmog events. They are larger then the games events in popularity.

    Lol I've never played WoW and never will, but I still watch Asmon.

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Why is this such a difficult concept for you to understand? The person who said that is actually being logically consistent: their position is that people unfamiliar with the game/spvp shouldn't give much stock to anyone's opinion other than their own, and should form that personal opinion on the basis of their own experience of the mode. You keep trying to make this about agreeing or disagreeing with your opinion on the state of the mode, which wasn't the point of that comment to begin with.

    Since BDO's been mentioned and I play that game as well, I can say that BDO is not directly p2w in the sense that you can buy direct upgrades to combat abilities, but you can pay your way past a ton of inconveniences involved with grinding out the in-game money needed to get upgrades. And unlike GW2, your gear and level matter a ton in BDO. So ultimately it's p2w, but you still need a significant amount of work, RNG, and knowledge of how the game works to actually take advantage of what your money bought you. Over time the game also hands out most of these conveniences in sufficient number that you can be mostly f2p and still have enough of the right resources to look and play a lot like a whale, at least for a few main characters that you play. You just have to make sure you're around to cash in on those handouts.

    As for combat balance, 1v1 in BDO basically devolves into 1 of 2 options: (1) whoever lands the first cc wins, as there are no stun breaks in that game, or (2) whoever is playing a class that is notoriously OP through exploiting bugs (blocks are supposed to work against every non-grappling attack, but some attacks straight up ignore them, and other blatant balance issues). Can't say anything about large-scale pvp in BDO as I haven't done it myself, but I hear it's like WvW in the sense that there are heavily favored classes due to group utility, and many others are just plain useless. To top it all off, BDO has no build diversity. The goal is to train up every single passive and active ability available to your class, since you have access to all of them at once. There really is no sense of counterplay in most small scale fights, there's pretty much no answer to getting ganked suddenly in the open world. The only way you survive is if the person trying to gank you is bad, or is below your level/gear and has no business picking a fight with you in the first place.

    While GW2 doesn't have those specific issues, I agree balance is still a joke in sPvP. Much of this has to do with the fact that the game forces us to pick and choose our passives and actives, so it's much easier for the devs to make nominally targeted changes that have unexpected consequences. I don't have much more to say that others haven't already said more intelligently, so I'll just leave it at that.

    I stopped playing ranked for mmr anywhere from 10 to 15 seasons ago, lost count. I came back to playing ranked just because it's still the fastest way for me to work up another weight of legendary armor, as I loathe WvW and don't feel like raiding for it in PvE. I'm stuck in gold 3 it seems, as I don't take any measures to queue at a more favorable time or otherwise preserve my rating. I'm certainly not having a lot of fun, but there's a good amount of gold to be had in farming the Byzantium chests, and of course reward tracks as well. I'm certain a significant portion of people putting in a lot of hours into ranked are in the same boat as I am.

    I understand the concept just fine, I just take the opposing position. Newer players need to give some stock to others' opinions. They're new! They've never played before. They don't know how what, where, why, when, how the game is. They simply don't have the experience to make an accurate or more complete judgement of a game.

    I also stick by my position on gw2. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, what with all the bots, lack of population, bad matchmaking, then mmopvp's are done, they've lost. It's over. There is simply no way that gw2(or any other mmorpg for that matter) competes with battle royale games, FPS and RTS, games that are much better made with respect to multiplayer.

    Finally, mmos. All this discussion about ff14, WoW, and gw2 shows me that mmorpgs are on an irreversible decline. mmos, as with online games, are critically dependant on population and the quality of communities to function. And they've pretty much lost population to battle royale games. mmos had their era in the 2000s, but those days aren't coming back. I look at it like this, when an mmo declines one of two things happen: it goes on automated life-support supported by a niche holdover community(gw1 for example) where the game is basically all-but-dead in a vegetative state or it gets the axe. Either way, that mmo will never be the same again, it will never be as popular as it once was. It will be a shell. People and communities eventually move on to other things. People need to accept the fact that one of the two things may happen to their mmo of choice, despite the hours and time they've spent on it.

    Edit: The last sentence is a key reason why I don't invest in mmos as much as I used to. People just end up investing more than what they get out of it and it's going to decline anyway! mmos simply do not respect your time. gw does do a better job at this, but at the end of the day it's still an mmo.

    Mmorpg PvP has been dead for a decade you are soo far late with such a statement. I don't know if you have reliesed but a massive amount of companies have gone to lengths to build prior PvP genre games..

    GW2 has bots.
    ESO has instability and bots
    Wow has excessive use of boosting.
    Rifts Devs litterally stated they aren't going to try balance PvP anymore. And removed support for it.
    FFXIV don't have a PvP scene to start with.
    Most Asian mmorpgs are litteral a handful of whales 1 shotting each other.

    GW2 having interesting classes and good combat gives gw2 a half decent PvP experience on the side of also having open world content and PvE options.

    If your here only for PvP. I question to exactly why... Mmorpgs are the worst form of main PvP you could likely access..

    Look at even streamers. Majority of the PvP focused players are gone.. u just see variety streamers on gw2 now. And that's because that's what it does well.

    Being able to log on and enjoy some PvP or PvE content with some friends in a enviroment which doesn't push chores on you.

    Mmorpgs aren't on a decline. PvP in mmorpgs are on the decline because of how many new genres and more surround PvP as a only end game.

    First off, no I am not late. mmorpg pvp still had life then due to the investment in "esports" and ranked leagues which brought a short spike of players for a time in order to compete with other rising genres. (See core gw2 and HoT) Now it's dead. Second, I already quit. I am not in this for pvp whatsoever. Were it that people actually READ before they post, I've said as such.

    Honestly, I'm really only in this for the living world and the trickle of friends that still play gw2. I've done everything else...for years! (I think 8k hours is enough don't you think!) And no, mmo's in general are in decline. pve included. pve is simply in better shape because of all the money being invested in putting out cosmetics and occasional content. That, at the very least, maintains the game. But just like resources have dried up for pvp, there's no reason to think that they won't dry up for pve as well.

    Again, if WoW is struggling mightily, imagine everything else.

    Well, WoW is struggling because it's nearly two decades old and has increasingly been gutted in favor of systems driven low effort content with about 10% of the profit it brings in seemingly being funneled into creating decent content. The environment artists seem to be the only talented ones left in that studio - or at least the only ones that really care. (And maybe the encounter designers that design boss fights.)

    Just my opinion. GW2 has always been light on in-game earnable rewards but it's a free to play business model. Compare that with WoW that's 15 dollars a month with MILLIONS of players and huge corporate backing with multiple other IP's and even in my saltiest days with Guild Wars 2 - they still push out an impressive amount of content for not having a sub. I mean this new part of the Saga is certainly the weakest and the rewards in general in this game are still terrible on average, but if you do a 30 minute dungeon run in Guild Wars 2 you earn a little gold, materials, and have an extremely dismal chance at obtaining something valuable for the trading post. You do a 30 minute dungeon run in WoW and you likely get... 0 gear to upgrade.. a few silver worth of random junk items clogging up your bags, and if you're extremely lucky something a few ilvl's higher that will be replaced so quickly that it's pointless.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭


    this next piece is dedicated to all participants

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Nilkemia.8507Nilkemia.8507 Member ✭✭✭

    I quit SPvP in January of 2020 and never looked back after being accused of match manipulation and apparently reported enough to where I got kicked out of the game in the middle of the match that was still even and I was participating in. So, ironically, whoever on the staff did that was guilty of match manipulation themselves, causing my team to likely lose. It'd have been one thing if they waited until after the match was over to do that, but that showing of hypocrisy on their part helped me realize this mode was ultimately not worth the trouble. I walked away from PvP and WvW and never looked back, and it was one of the smartest decisions I've ever made.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

    I mean considering they are out and have been out just not in our region; Lost Ark, Elyon. I'd say those are doing pretty well, especially considering Lost Ark is still probably one of the more popular MMOs in South Korea right now.

    Or if we want to use 2015 as a start year Black Desert Online is another one, and Albion Online is adequately successful in its sphere of interest. I'm curious to know what criteria you use to determine "great"? Objectively there have been more than enough MMORPGs that are good/great to occupy people's time and interest, even if you personally don't like them. Like I can't stomach ESO, I wouldn't say its a bad MMORPG, though. You can have whatever opinion you want as to the quality of any one particular MMORPG, that doesn't mean it is universally terrible.

    GW2, from my perspective, no longer fulfills the criteria that would keep me playing it. It isn't just about how vehemently I disagree with ANet's handling of the game, its multiple things that just make me uninterested in giving a kitten about the game despite my 15~ years with the franchise as a whole starting with GW1, but that won't stop me from recommending it to someone who might be looking for an MMORPG where they won't have to worry about literally anything ever. That, to me, is a pro and a con to it but its also why I don't want to come back to it and why in my opinion GW2 probably has the worst player retention out of the other MMORPGs that it is compared to, even including BDO.

    So like I said before, these days you just have to try and find where you fit, take a hard look at what you actually want out of an MMORPG and try to find something and ultimately if you can't find it then you may want to consider that maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing, at least for right now. Might need to just take a break until other MMOs release/are ported to our region, which there are several coming this year so you won't have to wait too long.

  • Nihil.9817Nihil.9817 Member ✭✭

    4 reaper spin weeeeeee : )
    i love this free mmr anet has been giving me

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

    I mean considering they are out and have been out just not in our region; Lost Ark, Elyon. I'd say those are doing pretty well, especially considering Lost Ark is still probably one of the more popular MMOs in South Korea right now.

    Or if we want to use 2015 as a start year Black Desert Online is another one, and Albion Online is adequately successful in its sphere of interest. I'm curious to know what criteria you use to determine "great"? Objectively there have been more than enough MMORPGs that are good/great to occupy people's time and interest, even if you personally don't like them. Like I can't stomach ESO, I wouldn't say its a bad MMORPG, though. You can have whatever opinion you want as to the quality of any one particular MMORPG, that doesn't mean it is universally terrible.

    GW2, from my perspective, no longer fulfills the criteria that would keep me playing it. It isn't just about how vehemently I disagree with ANet's handling of the game, its multiple things that just make me uninterested in giving a kitten about the game despite my 15~ years with the franchise as a whole starting with GW1, but that won't stop me from recommending it to someone who might be looking for an MMORPG where they won't have to worry about literally anything ever. That, to me, is a pro and a con to it but its also why I don't want to come back to it and why in my opinion GW2 probably has the worst player retention out of the other MMORPGs that it is compared to, even including BDO.

    So like I said before, these days you just have to try and find where you fit, take a hard look at what you actually want out of an MMORPG and try to find something and ultimately if you can't find it then you may want to consider that maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing, at least for right now. Might need to just take a break until other MMOs release/are ported to our region, which there are several coming this year so you won't have to wait too long.

    My point is the big mmos are the same mmos that were released a decade or close to a decade ago. All the popular big mmos have been out for many yrs and non of the resent ones have been able to stack up. Its been said many times by many content creators that its hard to creat new content cuz all the popular mmos are ones that have been around for so long. A new mmo that actually competes with the big three being wow, gw2 and ff14 needs to happen.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

    I mean considering they are out and have been out just not in our region; Lost Ark, Elyon. I'd say those are doing pretty well, especially considering Lost Ark is still probably one of the more popular MMOs in South Korea right now.

    Or if we want to use 2015 as a start year Black Desert Online is another one, and Albion Online is adequately successful in its sphere of interest. I'm curious to know what criteria you use to determine "great"? Objectively there have been more than enough MMORPGs that are good/great to occupy people's time and interest, even if you personally don't like them. Like I can't stomach ESO, I wouldn't say its a bad MMORPG, though. You can have whatever opinion you want as to the quality of any one particular MMORPG, that doesn't mean it is universally terrible.

    GW2, from my perspective, no longer fulfills the criteria that would keep me playing it. It isn't just about how vehemently I disagree with ANet's handling of the game, its multiple things that just make me uninterested in giving a kitten about the game despite my 15~ years with the franchise as a whole starting with GW1, but that won't stop me from recommending it to someone who might be looking for an MMORPG where they won't have to worry about literally anything ever. That, to me, is a pro and a con to it but its also why I don't want to come back to it and why in my opinion GW2 probably has the worst player retention out of the other MMORPGs that it is compared to, even including BDO.

    So like I said before, these days you just have to try and find where you fit, take a hard look at what you actually want out of an MMORPG and try to find something and ultimately if you can't find it then you may want to consider that maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing, at least for right now. Might need to just take a break until other MMOs release/are ported to our region, which there are several coming this year so you won't have to wait too long.

    My point is the big mmos are the same mmos that were released a decade or close to a decade ago. All the popular big mmos have been out for many yrs and non of the resent ones have been able to stack up. Its been said many times by many content creators that its hard to creat new content cuz all the popular mmos are ones that have been around for so long. A new mmo that actually competes with the big three being wow, gw2 and ff14 needs to happen.

    A new mmo is something not many hope to pull off and compete in the current world of online gaming. Most likely lost in the Amazon of failed mmos.

    OR, perhaps a pantheon of mmo enthusiasts can revive the classic mmo....

    lol, maybe something cool will happen this coming end of summer, beginning of fall

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 16, 2021

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

    I mean considering they are out and have been out just not in our region; Lost Ark, Elyon. I'd say those are doing pretty well, especially considering Lost Ark is still probably one of the more popular MMOs in South Korea right now.

    Or if we want to use 2015 as a start year Black Desert Online is another one, and Albion Online is adequately successful in its sphere of interest. I'm curious to know what criteria you use to determine "great"? Objectively there have been more than enough MMORPGs that are good/great to occupy people's time and interest, even if you personally don't like them. Like I can't stomach ESO, I wouldn't say its a bad MMORPG, though. You can have whatever opinion you want as to the quality of any one particular MMORPG, that doesn't mean it is universally terrible.

    GW2, from my perspective, no longer fulfills the criteria that would keep me playing it. It isn't just about how vehemently I disagree with ANet's handling of the game, its multiple things that just make me uninterested in giving a kitten about the game despite my 15~ years with the franchise as a whole starting with GW1, but that won't stop me from recommending it to someone who might be looking for an MMORPG where they won't have to worry about literally anything ever. That, to me, is a pro and a con to it but its also why I don't want to come back to it and why in my opinion GW2 probably has the worst player retention out of the other MMORPGs that it is compared to, even including BDO.

    So like I said before, these days you just have to try and find where you fit, take a hard look at what you actually want out of an MMORPG and try to find something and ultimately if you can't find it then you may want to consider that maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing, at least for right now. Might need to just take a break until other MMOs release/are ported to our region, which there are several coming this year so you won't have to wait too long.

    My point is the big mmos are the same mmos that were released a decade or close to a decade ago. All the popular big mmos have been out for many yrs and non of the resent ones have been able to stack up. Its been said many times by many content creators that its hard to creat new content cuz all the popular mmos are ones that have been around for so long. A new mmo that actually competes with the big three being wow, gw2 and ff14 needs to happen.

    A new mmo is something not many hope to pull off and compete in the current world of online gaming. Most likely lost in the Amazon of failed mmos.

    OR, perhaps a pantheon of mmo enthusiasts can revive the classic mmo....

    lol, maybe something cool will happen this coming end of summer, beginning of fall

    Lost Ark Western release.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 17, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    And on the other side you have players if not many top 10 that says GW2 has the best combat no matter the balance. It's okay, it ain't for you. You can go back to whatever makes you happier.

    The point isn't about the combat, yes GW2 has a very good combat system...however it is horribly underutilized and ANet has done a poor job of handling it from a balance and PvP perspective. Even PvE as well; Open World PvE in GW2 is the most braindead of braindead gameplay you can get out of an MMORPG, even compared to tab target ones and the significantly grindy ones. BDO for example, big time grind in that game, spend hours in a rotation of the same mobs and yet you still have to hit more buttons doing that open world PvE than you do in GW2 open world PvE and yet GW2 has "the best combat".

    Point is...they could do better, they just apparently refuse to.

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    Between the shoddy glicko matchmaking system, the bots, the community toxicity, I cannot fathom why people still continue to play this at all, even for fun. I left this sinking ship at august of last year and never looked back.

    My point is this: _It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, folks. It ain't getting better, it's time to move on. _ If people want pvp, they go to the older mmorpg titles .

    Well from all of the mmorpgs on the market which I have tried , gw2 has the best pvp in my opinion. Thats why i play it and i believe many other people too...

    If you dont like it , i think nobody forces you to play it...

    To any new players which happens to read this, dont trust any sorce like this (including me) just try it by your self and make your own judgement.

    If what you say is true then...that is just SAD. If this is the best pvp that mmorpgs can offer, then just stick a fork in it. Wrap it up. Move on. Also, you say "don't trust any source like this (including me)" but then yet advise to "try it by yourself and make your own judgement". So which is it?...

    Personally, I would rather be _direct_when I make a case to new players. To me it's take my argument as is or leave it. Simple as that.

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    When players say Gw2 has the best combat, best pvp...this is all I hear

    And goodness gracious....that man needs a therapist...

    To be fair its one of the best yeah but of a dying and stale genre. mmo's just aren't as popular as they once were, course the fact there hasn't been a lot of new ones and a lot of modern ones that did release failed hard. A lot of players have just moved on to other genres.

    Considering all of the MMORPGs releasing this year and likely next, if there are people who still say that its a dead genre or there are no MMORPGs to play then the genre isn't the problem; they are. Not to mention people just get horrendously unrealistic expectations for MMORPGs, any game really, and that tends to drive a big drop in population early into any MMORPGs life. They either want it to be something that it isn't, or they cook up some idea in their head about what it will have or be (based on no factual information) and that ends up not being true so they end up disappointed.

    Lets see how Elyon, Sword of Legends Online, Lost Ark and New World go. Not to mention WoW TBC Classic is launching likely in the coming months so that is another thing to look forward to, along with FFXIV Endwalker expansion. Really not a shortage of MMOs to play, especially not after all of those things release.

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Gw2 has the best pvp system: no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked, and it has great combat. Just need a real pvp game mode now like arenas.

    Lost Ark will be having a word with you later this year.

    @avey.4201 said:
    gw2 has a platformer style character system with skill based attacks so it is the best you can get, but the balance is on the level of intentionally sabotaged.

    Like above, Lost Ark might end up being a replacement here.

    For context on both those comments, Lost Ark has a system for its Arena PvP where your gear is literally irrelevant. The only thing you need is to have your weapons equipped and you can allocate your stat points where you want them through a UI window. So if ones criteria for a good PvP system is no gear grind, no level grind, everything unlocked and has a great combat system...Lost Ark sorta checks all those boxes.

    Well ur right there are some possible good mmos on the horizon and alot have released over the last yrs but prob is most flop or are not nearly as good as expected and end up dead fairly fast, I should said tho mmo genre of good mmos is dying haha

    Thats still a very subjective assertion, though. I'd argue that FFXIV is a great MMO, just don't play it for PvP. WoW is a great MMO, but people here have a severe aversion to gear treadmill MMOs but its a good MMO if you want decent PvE and PvP and a lot of cosmetic collecting. GW2, as much as I may have a very negative bias towards it these days, is a great MMO if you are an extremely casual player. No gear to worry about, but definitely on the lower end of the PvE difficulty compared to other MMOs.

    You just gotta find where you fit, and sometimes you may have to come to the conclusion that maybe you just don't fit with MMOs anymore if literally none of the current ones are satisfying to you.

    Yeah so what ur saying is all the great mmos are how old, how many mmos released within last 5 yrs been great?

    I mean considering they are out and have been out just not in our region; Lost Ark, Elyon. I'd say those are doing pretty well, especially considering Lost Ark is still probably one of the more popular MMOs in South Korea right now.

    Or if we want to use 2015 as a start year Black Desert Online is another one, and Albion Online is adequately successful in its sphere of interest. I'm curious to know what criteria you use to determine "great"? Objectively there have been more than enough MMORPGs that are good/great to occupy people's time and interest, even if you personally don't like them. Like I can't stomach ESO, I wouldn't say its a bad MMORPG, though. You can have whatever opinion you want as to the quality of any one particular MMORPG, that doesn't mean it is universally terrible.

    GW2, from my perspective, no longer fulfills the criteria that would keep me playing it. It isn't just about how vehemently I disagree with ANet's handling of the game, its multiple things that just make me uninterested in giving a kitten about the game despite my 15~ years with the franchise as a whole starting with GW1, but that won't stop me from recommending it to someone who might be looking for an MMORPG where they won't have to worry about literally anything ever. That, to me, is a pro and a con to it but its also why I don't want to come back to it and why in my opinion GW2 probably has the worst player retention out of the other MMORPGs that it is compared to, even including BDO.

    So like I said before, these days you just have to try and find where you fit, take a hard look at what you actually want out of an MMORPG and try to find something and ultimately if you can't find it then you may want to consider that maybe MMORPGs just aren't your thing, at least for right now. Might need to just take a break until other MMOs release/are ported to our region, which there are several coming this year so you won't have to wait too long.

    My point is the big mmos are the same mmos that were released a decade or close to a decade ago. All the popular big mmos have been out for many yrs and non of the resent ones have been able to stack up. Its been said many times by many content creators that its hard to creat new content cuz all the popular mmos are ones that have been around for so long. A new mmo that actually competes with the big three being wow, gw2 and ff14 needs to happen.

    But waiting and waiting and assuming any will specifically match WoW and FFXIV shouldn't be the goal. Not only do both of those MMOs have brand recognition purely due to their names, but they are fairly easily accessible as well as being pretty content rich despite the misgivings of either of their communities in regards to such. Thats like the many years people were trying to wait around for the next WoW killer, and then the next one and the next one and the next one. Never happened. WoW and FFXIV do have competition within the genre, but I can imagine that its difficult to see due to not only all of the marketing both of them do, but also the playerbase that they retain over all other MMORPGs. There is a reason WoW continues to put out the content that it does, there is a reason FFXIV continues to as well. If they slack off or don't change with the times, as they both have a few times over, then they'd get overtaken by other games. Why do you think WoW had that visual update to character models and otherwise during the WoD expansion? Why do you think FFXIV is considering its own visual overhaul in the coming years? Why do you think they constantly add new systems, new methods of gameplay, new mechanics, new classes, raids, dungeons, etc,etc? Because if they don't people don't play and they go elsewhere, which should all be very obvious. ESO does the same thing, BDO as well, even TERA at the very least still releases new classes sometimes. Know the only MMORPG you listed in the "big three" that does none of those things and has terrible player retention because of it? wink

    Point being, like I said before, try to find something that you enjoy and play that. Or play multiple MMOs, or cycle between them depending on whatever you're in the mood for. There is competition in the genre, people just need to stop having unrealistic expectations out of these coming MMORPGs and take them as they are rather than expect them to "kill" any particular MMO like WoW or BDO (like people thought Bless Online would do) or whatever. You think Lost Ark looks cool? Play that. Enjoy it. Don't expect it to "kill" anything or replace anything or overtake anything. We live in a time of options, take your pick.

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    Lost Ark Western release.

    Also this. Yes. Gimme.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    Stop quoting everything because it's tagging me to this terrible thread.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    What ellesee said, aaaaand this game is still dead