Make condi engi great again — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Make condi engi great again

ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

June 23, 2015. Judgement Day. The day Anet wiped out all condi engis from the face of the earth by launching nukes at what made them strong. I have been waiting since then for the return, but it has been 6 long, dark years and I am beginning to lose hope. We make do with what condition classes are presented to us: necro, revenant, even thief, but it's just not the same.

What we need is a hero. A hero that will rise up and take a look at what is keeping condi engi shackled in the bonds of uselessness, a hero that will correctly deduce that in a condi meta that is focused on applying as many intensity stacking conditions as possible in the shortest amount of time, the class must be able to do so with its burning tools: flamethrower, pistols, rocket boots, flame turret. Our hero must rightly assume that the condi focused firearms tree is complete doodoo and must be reworked, and that even if the condi engi's burning utilities are buffed, it must have the defensive capabilities, like stunbreaks, to stay alive. Our hero must also understand that none of the elite specs are catered to condition damage at all and could probably swap some unused traits and utilities in those trees to more condi oriented versions, or buff the half kitten condition ones.

I hope this hero is out there, maybe someone who has some pvp experience in a position of power to hear our plight. Until then we wait. It's only been 6 years. How much longer could it be?

<1

Comments

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭

    You will prolly be waiting til the class gets a condi damage based elite specc :p

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    if i never heard this saying again it would be too soon

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • bethekey.8314bethekey.8314 Member ✭✭✭

    In order to ensure our forums are pleasant and safe for all forum members, we expect all contributors to be respectful of one another. Posts that are rude towards or attack another member, single out a player for ridicule, or that accuse someone of inappropriate behavior will be removed.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    Numerically condi engi is fine tbh. It's got good pressure and good sustain. The only buff I really want for condi engi is more or a fix than a buff. I'd like Poison dart volley to consistently land against moving targets. Seeing "miss miss miss" even when you're not blinded is the worst feeling.

    Note: If we get transferrence sigil next patch, assuming core engi doesn't suffer a sustain nerf on the same patch, sage support engi might become viable.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bethekey.8314 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I'd like Poison dart volley to consistently land against moving targets. Seeing "miss miss miss" even when you're not blinded is the worst feeling.

    Did I ever show you this?

    This is before the slight fix in 2019 or something, but it's crazy to think one of core engi's few weapons had a skill this unreliable for so many years.

    My god that hurts to watch LOL

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 28, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    rare functional build like nades holo huh? holly kitten

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Yeah, sure they are. This totally isnt your attempt at a really weird and roundabout ad hominem because you don't have any real argument. The only one biased is you, something noted by multiple people already.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    rare functional build like nades holo huh? holly kitten

    Are you arguing that we haven't reached major powerdip since the february megapatch that caused a previously low-tier build like Nade Holo to suddenly become über-broken just because everything else is even weaker? I figured the Mirage main would appreciate the point. Unless you want to stick with Mirages current state.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I said it before the patch even dropped. All the Feb patch would do is introduce reverse power creep. An admittedly made-up term, the purpose of which was to describe a real phenomenon in an intuitive way.

    Rather than heed any of the constant warnings I threw out, people were more interested in debating semantics, stating that "Reverse power creep isn't a real term". Then the patch dropped. Grenades became broken, necros became unkillable, renegade went from trash to renegod... and the rest is history.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    rare functional build like nades holo huh? holly kitten

    Are you arguing that we haven't reached major powerdip since the february megapatch that caused a previously low-tier build like Nade Holo to suddenly become über-broken just because everything else is even weaker? I figured the Mirage main would appreciate the point. Unless you want to stick with Mirages current state.

    what I ment is that you implied that holo was " rare functional " while in truth it was just kitten broken as kitten.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I said it before the patch even dropped. All the Feb patch would do is introduce reverse power creep. An admittedly made-up term, the purpose of which was to describe a real phenomenon in an intuitive way.

    Rather than heed any of the constant warnings I threw out, people were more interested in debating semantics, stating that "Reverse power creep isn't a real term". Then the patch dropped. Grenades became broken, necros became unkillable, renegade went from trash to renegod... and the rest is history.

    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Yeah, sure they are. This totally isnt your attempt at a really weird and roundabout ad hominem because you don't have any real argument. The only one biased is you, something noted by multiple people already.

    You mean the people that can't accept they were carried by their build? Sure why not. Same goes for you. "Don't have any real argument" yet your argument is traits being "DECIMATED". Based on that I should say that all traits of equal effects on different professions have been "DECIMATED" therefor they are all underpowered? Guess so!

    Sure I don't have an argument since you purposefully didn't quote it. I can easily back it up by the fact that anything who doesn't fit your quota of efficient is garbage, but that is yet already proven wrong by several people who just play core condi already to their own degree of success, we know Holo is easier to play, you don't have to state the obvious.

    Engineer will always be harder to play by design (To which you think it's garbage), Holosmith spits on that for just having the most over the top range/effects/traits.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    We condi engi players will not be defeated. Our time will soon come again, and there will be a reckoning for the 6 years we've had to stand idly by. A reckoning I say. In the name of the blowtorch, the napalm, and the rocket kick amen.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There is an secret condi holo build, don't worry you will see it coming

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    Double posted when I tried to edit again. Rip I may as well make this post useful in the meantime...

    Did you know that Fire bomb hits like a truck if you can actually get the enemy to sit inside the radius? Pretty sure the damage is comparable to a sword of justice, and it's a short cooldown too. A firebomb and acid bomb on node could go a long way toward debunkering the enemy supports on maps with small nodes. Just a theory I've had floating around in my head.

    Mostly I'm just determined to find some way to make bomb kit useful.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    There is an secret condi holo build, don't worry you will see it coming

    Ooh, is it like the one I posted in the elusive "shadow discord". The one that does the double smoldering thing and hits 85% burn duration?
    Uhh... I mean, yeah, secret. Don't worry about it.

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    cough Pre-rework Renegade single handedly got Mad king rune nerfed. cough

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    There is an secret condi holo build, don't worry you will see it coming

    Ooh, is it like the one I posted in the elusive "shadow discord". The one that does the double smoldering thing and hits 85% burn duration?
    Uhh... I mean, yeah, secret. Don't worry about it.

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    cough Pre-rework Renegade single handedly got Mad king rune nerfed. cough

    Idk the build but I know it exists and there are like 10 people that know what it is and it's not from some mystic shadow discords

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    rare functional build like nades holo huh? holly kitten

    Are you arguing that we haven't reached major powerdip since the february megapatch that caused a previously low-tier build like Nade Holo to suddenly become über-broken just because everything else is even weaker? I figured the Mirage main would appreciate the point. Unless you want to stick with Mirages current state.

    what I ment is that you implied that holo was " rare functional " while in truth it was just kitten broken as kitten.

    Yes. Turns out being functional makes you broken when everyone else isnt functional. Thats kinda how it works. Those 2 things are not contradictory. Holo was broken because it was a bad build in a meta where most builds were atrocious. The solution shouldve been big damage buffs across the board.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I said it before the patch even dropped. All the Feb patch would do is introduce reverse power creep. An admittedly made-up term, the purpose of which was to describe a real phenomenon in an intuitive way.

    Rather than heed any of the constant warnings I threw out, people were more interested in debating semantics, stating that "Reverse power creep isn't a real term". Then the patch dropped. Grenades became broken, necros became unkillable, renegade went from trash to renegod... and the rest is history.

    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Yeah, sure they are. This totally isnt your attempt at a really weird and roundabout ad hominem because you don't have any real argument. The only one biased is you, something noted by multiple people already.

    You mean the people that can't accept they were carried by their build? Sure why not. Same goes for you. "Don't have any real argument" yet your argument is traits being "DECIMATED". Based on that I should say that all traits of equal effects on different professions have been "DECIMATED" therefor they are all underpowered? Guess so!

    Oh Im sure there were people "carried by their build", and that that totally is unique to MMOs. Get a grip, mate. You indeed have no argument. I do. Oh and of course you have the "everyone was nerfed equally so its fine" argument. Simple thought experiment: Imagine everyone gets nerfed so that their damage ... is 0. Its an equal nerf, so its fine, right? Yeah, its not. Turns out if you nerf too hard, the game degenerates. Thats what the february patch happened, and thats what it did.

    Sure I don't have an argument since you purposefully didn't quote it. I can easily back it up by the fact that anything who doesn't fit your quota of efficient is garbage, but that is yet already proven wrong by several people who just play core condi already to their own degree of success, we know Holo is easier to play, you don't have to state the obvious.

    There was no argument to quote. You dont have one. You cant back it up at all, as there are no people who play core condi to any success. There was one guy who made it work ... in the random arena in heart of the mists. In ranked? Not at all. But hey, I guess youre just being open to bias.

    Engineer will always be harder to play by design (To which you think it's garbage), Holosmith spits on that for just having the most over the top range/effects/traits.

    Mate, I know you have no argument and as a result you have to cling to your ad hominems, but maybe don't do that to the guy who has been playing only core engineer for a year now. I know Engineer is hard to play. I also know how to play it. And unlike you, I am familiar enough with engineer to know that core condi is unplayable garbage. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Play core condi engineer, and nothing but core condi engineer for a few months, and tell me how your ranking did. Or if you're too much of a coward to do that, because you know it will make you drop rank, simply admit you were wrong, as you so often are.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    Builds can exist, but it doesnt mean they are good. It is literally impossible for condi engi to be good right now. If you equipped every single utility that inflicts burning, it would still pale in comparison to the amount of burns a post nerf dh can do and the engi will have longer cooldowns and with none of the survivability tools that the guard has. Incendiary ammo has a whopping 40 second cooldown for 3 burns compared to something like guard torch 4 which applies the same amount of burns on like a 12 sec cd.

    If you try to diversify your condis with less burn and more bleeds youd have to run something like shrapnel and nades. This route doesn't take flashbang so it is already a kitten build. You'd also have to run FT because that applies the most burning on a single utility which means you have room for just one stunbreak and defensive utility. Weak.

    If you want to run a more balanced build with mediocre burns and some survivability, the build would be so slow to where it could just be ignored in a team fight and easily out sustained by a side noder. Like a ft, eg, elixir s build that Woodstock linked before can burst at maximum 4-5 burns every 40 seconds and is then relegated to pistol attacks and eg autos; maybe like an acid bomb but how hard is that going to hit with a carrion/sage amulet, or even a wizard amulet?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I said it before the patch even dropped. All the Feb patch would do is introduce reverse power creep. An admittedly made-up term, the purpose of which was to describe a real phenomenon in an intuitive way.

    Rather than heed any of the constant warnings I threw out, people were more interested in debating semantics, stating that "Reverse power creep isn't a real term". Then the patch dropped. Grenades became broken, necros became unkillable, renegade went from trash to renegod... and the rest is history.

    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Yeah, sure they are. This totally isnt your attempt at a really weird and roundabout ad hominem because you don't have any real argument. The only one biased is you, something noted by multiple people already.

    You mean the people that can't accept they were carried by their build? Sure why not. Same goes for you. "Don't have any real argument" yet your argument is traits being "DECIMATED". Based on that I should say that all traits of equal effects on different professions have been "DECIMATED" therefor they are all underpowered? Guess so!

    Oh Im sure there were people "carried by their build", and that that totally is unique to MMOs. Get a grip, mate. You indeed have no argument. I do. Oh and of course you have the "everyone was nerfed equally so its fine" argument. Simple thought experiment: Imagine everyone gets nerfed so that their damage ... is 0. Its an equal nerf, so its fine, right? Yeah, its not. Turns out if you nerf too hard, the game degenerates. Thats what the february patch happened, and thats what it did.

    Sure I don't have an argument since you purposefully didn't quote it. I can easily back it up by the fact that anything who doesn't fit your quota of efficient is garbage, but that is yet already proven wrong by several people who just play core condi already to their own degree of success, we know Holo is easier to play, you don't have to state the obvious.

    There was no argument to quote. You dont have one. You cant back it up at all, as there are no people who play core condi to any success. There was one guy who made it work ... in the random arena in heart of the mists. In ranked? Not at all. But hey, I guess youre just being open to bias.

    Engineer will always be harder to play by design (To which you think it's garbage), Holosmith spits on that for just having the most over the top range/effects/traits.

    Mate, I know you have no argument and as a result you have to cling to your ad hominems, but maybe don't do that to the guy who has been playing only core engineer for a year now. I know Engineer is hard to play. I also know how to play it. And unlike you, I am familiar enough with engineer to know that core condi is unplayable garbage. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Play core condi engineer, and nothing but core condi engineer for a few months, and tell me how your ranking did. Or if you're too much of a coward to do that, because you know it will make you drop rank, simply admit you were wrong, as you so often are.

    Whoohoo, is that why you spend your time only winning 1+ on Mesmer/Thief? Never in your days I have seen you play any of the likes. Still have yet to see "1" Core Engineer in HotM, unranked, ranked or AT's that's not bethekey. For someone that I encounter a lot yet claims to play it, nah. Don't believe it.

    Core Condition outside duration of traits is relatively unchanged, plays the same as before, I know because I've played over 2 years ago for a few months (471 games) while the meta (that everyone wants back because reasons) was the stale power crept to no end. To call Firearms "decimated" for such minor changes is actual bias against everything else that suffers the same changes.

    Why should I care about my rating, I could do like everyone else (probably you included) and use an alt for anything to avoid risks. Been playing whatever the likes I feel in ranked which has been Ventari Renegade as of late with the nerfs, it's keeping me up there just fine and it's extremely sub optimal with the introduced bugs of the tablet, which like Jalis has it's own hilarious inconsistencies nobody wants to acknowledge. As irrelevant as it sounds, your perspective on what makes something good or bad is clouded by generic stats analysis and to me always will be. (Core is far from not having options, the real issues comes from how broken the profession behaves at times such as CD's going down constantly by itself to waste an entire skill, projectiles as shown multiple times before.)

    You don't know me, your elitism doesn't reach me whatsoever and I'll do whatever I want with my Core Engineer, case and point that even after proving more than a few times things are playable (even turned meta twice), nobody gives a damned even if it was high skill high reward, they still wouldn't play it.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAo6lNw8YjsOGKOcL1vLA-zZoKjEKgMTAXHA

    i messed around with something like this with decent success

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    Core condi engi is definately playable. It isn't so weak that a good player can't win games on it. That being said it's definately undertuned. Consider that most people consider core (Pre PoF) to be when the game was at its most balanced, yet even if we were to ignore the game-wide 33% damage nerf, core engi is weaker in overall power due to it being repeatedly nerfed to bring down Holo and Scrapper. You can say the nerfs were necessary, but that doesn't change the fact that the damage has been done and core engi is weaker than it should be. Firearms nerfs wern't the only thing Engi recieved. They've also seen significant nerfs to alchemy, invnetions, and tools.

    Only explosives are arguably stronger than before, but this is offset by the nerfs to grenades, and bombs (shorter fuses removed).

    Core engi is overnerfed. No questions asked.

    I'd be okay with that if some of their skills were just a tad more... functional in PvP. Give Poison dart Volley better tracking and/or velocity so that it can hit moving opponents. That would go a long way to help engi secure kills on moving targets. Add shorter fuses back to the trait Short Fuse. Bomb kit was somewhat usable back when the delay wasn't so egregious.

  • zoopop.5630zoopop.5630 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    It does. Do you even main Engi? Have you ever played around with P/P Engi at all?

    Last time I seen you around was when Condi Rev meta was OP and you made constant post about why it shouldn't need nerfs. Please stop posting on the forums with these insane bias comments that you clearly have no idea of. Condi Engi has sucked kitten for years and it was some what DECENT before all the changes we're made(around a year ago).

    Your view on "fair" and "functional" is twisted. It needs a complete rework if they wont do that then it 100% needs a buff. Imagine playing Engi and having 1 out of your 3 weapons being completely useless/gimmicky? Yet people like you would suggest it's fine due to lack of skills overall and understanding of the game regardless of how often you been playing.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    I said it before the patch even dropped. All the Feb patch would do is introduce reverse power creep. An admittedly made-up term, the purpose of which was to describe a real phenomenon in an intuitive way.

    Rather than heed any of the constant warnings I threw out, people were more interested in debating semantics, stating that "Reverse power creep isn't a real term". Then the patch dropped. Grenades became broken, necros became unkillable, renegade went from trash to renegod... and the rest is history.

    Renegade went from 0 to 100 because of Sevenshot targetting changes, NOTHING else.

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    You're underplaying it massively. Of course it does. Else it wouldn't be so bad that its not even a meme-tier build.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    Yes. Fair is fairness, functional is if the build works at all. Condi Engineer is very fair, because its non-functional. And if we had a rare functional build like grenade holo, it got nerfed immediately.

    You remind me why MMORPG players are the least skillful in all the genres that exists and yet GW2 is barely close to mechanically be one that compares upon any, you still find ways to astonish me with your uncreative bias.

    Yeah, sure they are. This totally isnt your attempt at a really weird and roundabout ad hominem because you don't have any real argument. The only one biased is you, something noted by multiple people already.

    You mean the people that can't accept they were carried by their build? Sure why not. Same goes for you. "Don't have any real argument" yet your argument is traits being "DECIMATED". Based on that I should say that all traits of equal effects on different professions have been "DECIMATED" therefor they are all underpowered? Guess so!

    Oh Im sure there were people "carried by their build", and that that totally is unique to MMOs. Get a grip, mate. You indeed have no argument. I do. Oh and of course you have the "everyone was nerfed equally so its fine" argument. Simple thought experiment: Imagine everyone gets nerfed so that their damage ... is 0. Its an equal nerf, so its fine, right? Yeah, its not. Turns out if you nerf too hard, the game degenerates. Thats what the february patch happened, and thats what it did.

    Sure I don't have an argument since you purposefully didn't quote it. I can easily back it up by the fact that anything who doesn't fit your quota of efficient is garbage, but that is yet already proven wrong by several people who just play core condi already to their own degree of success, we know Holo is easier to play, you don't have to state the obvious.

    There was no argument to quote. You dont have one. You cant back it up at all, as there are no people who play core condi to any success. There was one guy who made it work ... in the random arena in heart of the mists. In ranked? Not at all. But hey, I guess youre just being open to bias.

    Engineer will always be harder to play by design (To which you think it's garbage), Holosmith spits on that for just having the most over the top range/effects/traits.

    Mate, I know you have no argument and as a result you have to cling to your ad hominems, but maybe don't do that to the guy who has been playing only core engineer for a year now. I know Engineer is hard to play. I also know how to play it. And unlike you, I am familiar enough with engineer to know that core condi is unplayable garbage. But go ahead, prove me wrong. Play core condi engineer, and nothing but core condi engineer for a few months, and tell me how your ranking did. Or if you're too much of a coward to do that, because you know it will make you drop rank, simply admit you were wrong, as you so often are.

    Whoohoo, is that why you spend your time only winning 1+ on Mesmer/Thief? Never in your days I have seen you play any of the likes. Still have yet to see "1" Core Engineer in HotM, unranked, ranked or AT's that's not bethekey. For someone that I encounter a lot yet claims to play it, nah. Don't believe it.

    ... I have not played Mesmer ever. I have only played thief up until last year. We have also never faced each other, among other things because we're on opposite servers. And I wonder why you never see Core Engineer in ranked. Could it be, gasp, thats its bad?

    Core Condition outside duration of traits is relatively unchanged, plays the same as before, I know because I've played over 2 years ago for a few months (471 games) while the meta (that everyone wants back because reasons) was the stale power crept to no end. To call Firearms "decimated" for such minor changes is actual bias against everything else that suffers the same changes.

    "Outside duration of traits", spoken like someone who has never played the build and doesn't have even the slightest understanding of it. The traits were the entire reason they worked. And the nerfs were massive, usually over 66% lowered duration. If you think these are "minor" changes, then you're just wearing your bias on your sleeve, as you openly state "I have no clue about condi engineer and should really shut my mouth and not talk about it". Plus, blowtorch also got a big nerf, and that was the most critical skill. And no, no other class "suffered the same changes". Lets compare it to, say, Condi Necro. Condi necro had its bleeding on crit trait nerfed to be 1 second instead of 2. It maintained its duration increase. Thats a lot better than what Engineer got.

    Why should I care about my rating, I could do like everyone else (probably you included) and use an alt for anything to avoid risks. Been playing whatever the likes I feel in ranked which has been Ventari Renegade as of late with the nerfs, it's keeping me up there just fine and it's extremely sub optimal with the introduced bugs of the tablet, which like Jalis has it's own hilarious inconsistencies nobody wants to acknowledge. As irrelevant as it sounds, your perspective on what makes something good or bad is clouded by generic stats analysis and to me always will be. (Core is far from not having options, the real issues comes from how broken the profession behaves at times such as CD's going down constantly by itself to waste an entire skill, projectiles as shown multiple times before.)

    Idk, someone like you seems quite prideful. It is merely a guess. And yes, its "clouded by stat analysis, aka the only objective thing that you cant be clouded by". If anything, your perspective is clouded by your bias.

    You don't know me, your elitism doesn't reach me whatsoever and I'll do whatever I want with my Core Engineer, case and point that even after proving more than a few times things are playable (even turned meta twice), nobody gives a damned even if it was high skill high reward, they still wouldn't play it.

    I dont think you know what elitism means. It doesnt mean "calling out my bad takes", for example. You wont do anything with core engineer. Youve never played it, you will never play it. You have never proven anything that is playable or meta. People would play it if it was good. People played core engineer before. Or Weaver.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    It does. Do you even main Engi? Have you ever played around with P/P Engi at all?

    Last time I seen you around was when Condi Rev meta was OP and you made constant post about why it shouldn't need nerfs. Please stop posting on the forums with these insane bias comments that you clearly have no idea of. Condi Engi has sucked kitten for years and it was some what DECENT before all the changes we're made(around a year ago).

    Your view on "fair" and "functional" is twisted. It needs a complete rework if they wont do that then it 100% needs a buff. Imagine playing Engi and having 1 out of your 3 weapons being completely useless/gimmicky? Yet people like you would suggest it's fine due to lack of skills overall and understanding of the game regardless of how often you been playing.

    You should re check your claims of me saying condi rev didn't need nerfs. Because it's the complete opposite, I even gave warnings that they should be careful with it and take care of Herald (which they did 2 years later).

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/88528/those-mallyx-changes-anet-please-be-careful-yikes-its-happening/p1

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/111012/how-to-properly-nerf-herald-condition-and-mallyx-very-simple#latest

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/99273/qol-buff-and-nerf-wishlist-request-for-revenant-skills-traits-but-for-the-new-patch#latest

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/92454/qol-buff-and-nerf-wishlist-request-for-revenant-skills-traits-31-december-2020/p1

    Outside damage, condi engi p/p hasn't changed apart of Healing Turret. If it could survive in the past power crept meta, it can survive the current one now.

    (2 years ago.)

    As a reminder, I'm not even that good with it yet I made it far enough. Blah blah I can hear it, everyone is bad, never have anyone that's competent.

    @UNOwen.7132 I saw someone with the exact UNOwen name, couldn't remember the numbers. If that ain't you, too bad. I was wrong, but your claims of me never playing Engineer are just as wrong. Anyway, I'm done arguing here since no one ever bother to research anything and spew random lies, like I said. There's no reason trying to prove anything when it doesn't matter in the first place to anyone.

    I'll sure take the time to enjoy Engineer since there's no better time than now when you don't have kitten like Tetherbreaker existing.

    Btw I played Weaver day one and had fun with power. If 1.2k games on ele is not enough to prove, idk what will.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    It does. Do you even main Engi? Have you ever played around with P/P Engi at all?

    Last time I seen you around was when Condi Rev meta was OP and you made constant post about why it shouldn't need nerfs. Please stop posting on the forums with these insane bias comments that you clearly have no idea of. Condi Engi has sucked kitten for years and it was some what DECENT before all the changes we're made(around a year ago).

    Your view on "fair" and "functional" is twisted. It needs a complete rework if they wont do that then it 100% needs a buff. Imagine playing Engi and having 1 out of your 3 weapons being completely useless/gimmicky? Yet people like you would suggest it's fine due to lack of skills overall and understanding of the game regardless of how often you been playing.

    Outside damage, condi engi p/p hasn't changed apart of Healing Turret. If it could survive in the past power crept meta, it can survive the current one now.

    "Outside of the one thing that is critical to it, as well as a number of survivability traits and skills, it totally hasnt changed". You realise how stupid that is, right? And no, because while we are in a power dip meta (like power creep, but in reverse and worse), Condi Engineer was already bad, and nerfed much harder than the other builds.

    (2 years ago.)

    As a reminder, I'm not even that good with it yet I made it far enough. Blah blah I can hear it, everyone is bad, never have anyone that's competent.

    He says, showing a video from 3 years ago. One in which he was doing poorly. And barely managed to kill a terrible warrior player after having to use the teleport gate to his advantage.

    @UNOwen.7132 I saw someone with the exact UNOwen name, couldn't remember the numbers. If that ain't you, too bad. I was wrong, but your claims of me never playing Engineer are just as wrong. Anyway, I'm done arguing here since no one ever bother to research anything and spew random lies, like I said. There's no reason trying to prove anything when it doesn't matter in the first place to anyone.

    Agatha Christie novels are popular, you shouldn't be surprised my nick is one you've seen before. And you're the only one who never bothers to research, were just trying to explain to you why youre wrong again.

    I'll sure take the time to enjoy Engineer since there's no better time than now when you don't have kitten like Tetherbreaker existing.

    Are ... are you suggesting that engineers biggest enemy was tetherbreaker? I mean I get it, you dont play the class, you dont understand it, and you wont play it, but tetherbreaker? Warrior is and has always been one of the easier matchups on Engineer.

    Btw I played Weaver day one and had fun with power. If 1.2k games on ele is not enough to prove, idk what will.

    Thats not an argument against anything Ive said, did you even read?

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 29, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    It does. Do you even main Engi? Have you ever played around with P/P Engi at all?

    Last time I seen you around was when Condi Rev meta was OP and you made constant post about why it shouldn't need nerfs. Please stop posting on the forums with these insane bias comments that you clearly have no idea of. Condi Engi has sucked kitten for years and it was some what DECENT before all the changes we're made(around a year ago).

    Your view on "fair" and "functional" is twisted. It needs a complete rework if they wont do that then it 100% needs a buff. Imagine playing Engi and having 1 out of your 3 weapons being completely useless/gimmicky? Yet people like you would suggest it's fine due to lack of skills overall and understanding of the game regardless of how often you been playing.

    Outside damage, condi engi p/p hasn't changed apart of Healing Turret. If it could survive in the past power crept meta, it can survive the current one now.

    "Outside of the one thing that is critical to it, as well as a number of survivability traits and skills, it totally hasnt changed". You realise how stupid that is, right? And no, because while we are in a power dip meta (like power creep, but in reverse and worse), Condi Engineer was already bad, and nerfed much harder than the other builds.

    Conditions are bloated compared power, still claiming that the nerfs "decimated" the class even though current blow torch under normal builds goes up to 11k burn instead of the old overkill 18k+.

    I can still evade spam just as much, nothing changed.

    (2 years ago.)

    As a reminder, I'm not even that good with it yet I made it far enough. Blah blah I can hear it, everyone is bad, never have anyone that's competent.

    He says, showing a video from 3 years ago. One in which he was doing poorly. And barely managed to kill a terrible warrior player after having to use the teleport gate to his advantage.

    Never said it was good, although you're surprisingly confident in talking kitten against a resistance spam spellbreaker vs condition engineer. Inb4 don't hit FC, gonna backseat someone that played something day one.

    @UNOwen.7132 I saw someone with the exact UNOwen name, couldn't remember the numbers. If that ain't you, too bad. I was wrong, but your claims of me never playing Engineer are just as wrong. Anyway, I'm done arguing here since no one ever bother to research anything and spew random lies, like I said. There's no reason trying to prove anything when it doesn't matter in the first place to anyone.

    Agatha Christie novels are popular, you shouldn't be surprised my nick is one you've seen before. And you're the only one who never bothers to research, were just trying to explain to you why youre wrong again.

    Said I wouldn't argue. Wiki has the numbers, they're insignificant in the long run of consistent plays. You can say Agatha Christie novels are popular but I never heard of them and they're not part of my culture.

    I'll sure take the time to enjoy Engineer since there's no better time than now when you don't have kitten like Tetherbreaker existing.

    Are ... are you suggesting that engineers biggest enemy was tetherbreaker? I mean I get it, you dont play the class, you dont understand it, and you wont play it, but tetherbreaker? Warrior is and has always been one of the easier matchups on Engineer.

    No it was the only thing people played on every sidenode and it was even more evade spam that than a thief on acrobatics or said engineer build with vigor and adrenal implant combined, except it did unblockable damage. It's BORING to fight, even with Throw Mine.

    Btw I played Weaver day one and had fun with power. If 1.2k games on ele is not enough to prove, idk what will.

    Thats not an argument against anything Ive said, did you even read?

    Weaver was good day one, however you're saying it used to be good, like what? The "had" fun part is me saying that it was "good", while all you could hear is Weaver has a wet noodle for attacks, even to this day. Weaver is a better bruiser than Revenant with all the weakness.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @zoopop.5630 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Yeah yeah yeah sure, except not. Y'all living in the past and should start innovating. It sure was bad before feb but after feb there was a lot of slack given to a lot of underpowered stuff. Work at it. Engineer doesn't need buffs coming to Conditions or it's sustain.

    Actually it was better before the february megapatch, since that one just decimated a lot of traits in the Firearms traitline, which condi engie relied on. It definitely needs buff. Plus, anything that is actually functional nowadays gets nerfed.

    You're blowing it out of proportions. It doesn't.

    Your view on "functional" is different from "fair".

    It does. Do you even main Engi? Have you ever played around with P/P Engi at all?

    Last time I seen you around was when Condi Rev meta was OP and you made constant post about why it shouldn't need nerfs. Please stop posting on the forums with these insane bias comments that you clearly have no idea of. Condi Engi has sucked kitten for years and it was some what DECENT before all the changes we're made(around a year ago).

    Your view on "fair" and "functional" is twisted. It needs a complete rework if they wont do that then it 100% needs a buff. Imagine playing Engi and having 1 out of your 3 weapons being completely useless/gimmicky? Yet people like you would suggest it's fine due to lack of skills overall and understanding of the game regardless of how often you been playing.

    Outside damage, condi engi p/p hasn't changed apart of Healing Turret. If it could survive in the past power crept meta, it can survive the current one now.

    "Outside of the one thing that is critical to it, as well as a number of survivability traits and skills, it totally hasnt changed". You realise how stupid that is, right? And no, because while we are in a power dip meta (like power creep, but in reverse and worse), Condi Engineer was already bad, and nerfed much harder than the other builds.

    Conditions are bloated compared power, still claiming that the nerfs "decimated" the class even though current blow torch under normal builds goes up to 11k burn instead of the old overkill 18k+.

    Because of condi cleanse and them being overtime. The point youre missing is that if a build was bad pre-patch, and has its damage nerfed by over 66% while everyone else only lost 30%, its going to be bad.

    I can still evade spam just as much, nothing changed.

    ... evade spam? Again, I know you dont know Engineer, but Engineer doesn't really spam evades. Its not Ranger or Weaver.

    (2 years ago.)

    As a reminder, I'm not even that good with it yet I made it far enough. Blah blah I can hear it, everyone is bad, never have anyone that's competent.

    He says, showing a video from 3 years ago. One in which he was doing poorly. And barely managed to kill a terrible warrior player after having to use the teleport gate to his advantage.

    Never said it was good, although you're surprisingly confident in talking kitten against a resistance spam spellbreaker vs condition engineer. Inb4 don't hit FC, gonna backseat someone that played something day one.

    He played poorly, and Warriors "resistance spam" is not an issue.

    @UNOwen.7132 I saw someone with the exact UNOwen name, couldn't remember the numbers. If that ain't you, too bad. I was wrong, but your claims of me never playing Engineer are just as wrong. Anyway, I'm done arguing here since no one ever bother to research anything and spew random lies, like I said. There's no reason trying to prove anything when it doesn't matter in the first place to anyone.

    Agatha Christie novels are popular, you shouldn't be surprised my nick is one you've seen before. And you're the only one who never bothers to research, were just trying to explain to you why youre wrong again.

    Said I wouldn't argue. Wiki has the numbers, they're insignificant in the long run of consistent plays. You can say Agatha Christie novels are popular but I never heard of them and they're not part of my culture.

    "They're insignificant", mate, the numbers literally are how the game works. And if you've never heard of Agatha Christie novels, thats on you. They're the second-most popular murder mystery classics out there.

    I'll sure take the time to enjoy Engineer since there's no better time than now when you don't have kitten like Tetherbreaker existing.

    Are ... are you suggesting that engineers biggest enemy was tetherbreaker? I mean I get it, you dont play the class, you dont understand it, and you wont play it, but tetherbreaker? Warrior is and has always been one of the easier matchups on Engineer.

    No it was the only thing people played on every sidenode and it was even more evade spam that than a thief on acrobatics or said engineer build with vigor and adrenal implant combined, except it did unblockable damage. It's BORING to fight, even with Throw Mine.

    ... what? At no point was Warrior the only thing played on sidenote. It also didn't really spam evades, its more of a block thing.

    Btw I played Weaver day one and had fun with power. If 1.2k games on ele is not enough to prove, idk what will.

    Thats not an argument against anything Ive said, did you even read?

    Weaver was good day one, however you're saying it used to be good, like what? The "had" fun part is me saying that it was "good", while all you could hear is Weaver has a wet noodle for attacks, even to this day. Weaver is a better bruiser than Revenant with all the weakness.

    It really, really wasn't.

  • bethekey.8314bethekey.8314 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 30, 2021

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Builds can exist, but it doesnt mean they are good. It is literally impossible for condi engi to be good right now.

    Good is subjective. I think for the majority of people in this rather non-competitive, low population PvP that GW2 has, core engineer can be "good". I fully believe that if I cared to devote time to playing in ranked, I could easily get top 25 with the build I posted. I agree it's definitely not among the "best" builds, however.

    I'm only saying this because I believe you saying it's "impossible" is hyperbole, and the community doesn't need more of that right now.

    If you equipped every single utility that inflicts burning, it would still pale in comparison to the amount of burns a post nerf dh can do and the engi will have longer cooldowns and with none of the survivability tools that the guard has. Incendiary ammo has a whopping 40 second cooldown for 3 burns compared to something like guard torch 4 which applies the same amount of burns on like a 12 sec cd.

    There's condi burst that stacks high and there's condi burst that stacks wide (in number of conditions). Engineers have almost always been the latter and guardians the former. I don't think the comparison you're making is entirely fair. I do agree that guardians seem to stack burn excessively at times.

    If you try to diversify your condis with less burn and more bleeds youd have to run something like shrapnel and nades. This route doesn't take flashbang so it is already a kitten build. You'd also have to run FT because that applies the most burning on a single utility which means you have room for just one stunbreak and defensive utility. Weak.

    If you want to run a more balanced build with mediocre burns and some survivability, the build would be so slow to where it could just be ignored in a team fight and easily out sustained by a side noder. Like a ft, eg, elixir s build that Woodstock linked before can burst at maximum 4-5 burns every 40 seconds and is then relegated to pistol attacks and eg autos; maybe like an acid bomb but how hard is that going to hit with a carrion/sage amulet, or even a wizard amulet?

    I actually win most of the side node fights with the build, but your mileage may vary. The build also isn't about burst; it's about sustained, varied condition and power pressure. A constant 2/3 burns + bleeds + poison with 1800+ condition damage goes a long way and is often harder to deal with than a singular giant 10 burn stack.

    In order to ensure our forums are pleasant and safe for all forum members, we expect all contributors to be respectful of one another. Posts that are rude towards or attack another member, single out a player for ridicule, or that accuse someone of inappropriate behavior will be removed.

  • The funny part about this is that even the elixir gun is now better as a power weapon in pvp because of aristocracy runes... it has some surprising damage output as power zerker dps despite being a support condition weapon...

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    @bethekey.8314 said:

    .

    Good is relative. Something is good when it can keep up with the current meta against halfway decent players. If you want to call that my subjective take on what makes a build good, then that's ok. To that end, I don't think my claim that it is impossible to be good on a condi engi is hyperbole at all. I think it is empirically true if you look at the numbers. If you want to say comparing condi engi to a burn guard is unfair, that's fine. We can compare it to any condi class. Necro? Mirage? Revenant? All can perform well in the current meta with much more damage, survivability, mobility. Even non meta builds like condi zerker and thief perform their roles better. We can go into more depth about each of these if you want.

    If you want to compare your style of build to something of a similar role, we can look at the fire weaver. Fire weaver has infinitely more sustain, can apply way more burning on a way shorter cooldown along with more power damage abilities, it has the mobility, blinks, more cc, more defensives, it really isn't even close. I would go so far as to say that every class has some kind of viable condi build except engi, and I don't think winning "most of the side node fights with the build" against "the majority of people in this rather non-competitive, low population PvP that GW2 has" is adequate enough. I want condi engi to be good, and it's been 6 years since any kind of viable condi engi build has existed.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    Burn and 100-nades , lacks counterplay .
    Power Wrench , reducing the cds of mortal kit ...constant ...waterfield+smoke would be Op for Bunkers (/breaths horsingly heavily)
    If in PvP we use 700-650 weapon skill weapons , then each time an enemy switch weapons , drop a 400 skill version weapon on the ground that we equip . Or we can choose a 500 of an ally .And we cannot benefit from Protection as long as we have that weapon +does self damage after 2 min (so Bunkers wont camper with Dagger/Pistol > Blind Field + from the Elite kit blind ) .

    If ever LoL allow you to move your character with ASWD and use skills with Left click (for MMo players) , then we should get Burn increase :P
    Or 6 years from now , when a 8 year kid from Hong Kong , get paid from me to say a beautiful 3 word phrase a tournament . American Army have scenarios for even Allien invasion

    Sorry Ncsoft , that agreement was not made "(
    Nov

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 And so I've been playing it ranked/AT and been winning and losing like I would on any professions, SoloQ and DuoQ. I got screens that can be easily shared and working on getting content to just randomly stitch for an upload.

    Core P/P works as you'd expect it and heavily reminds me of pre-feb patch so no matter, I'll keep disagreeing with your "decimated" statement on the traits, it's relatively the same as players are only asked to be consistent and clever, shocker. While on the adventure I've also came across people who disagree that Core Engi is unplayable, it's underrated rather.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    Core condi engi is unplayable.

  • @ellesee.8297 said:
    Core condi engi is unplayable.

    It's 2021 and I still don't understand what's so "enjoyable" about using condi focused builds, it's the lowest of lowest playstyle I've ever seen in any game.
    Also, it's near impossible to make core class like Engi or Ele to become "viable", since both of it's e-speces are built on top of it(core+), so any changes like buffing core will automatically buff them. A-net would need to redesign whole e-speces kitten from scratch lol.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    Core condi engi is unplayable.

    It's 2021 and I still don't understand what's so "enjoyable" about using condi focused builds, it's the lowest of lowest playstyle I've ever seen in any game.
    Also, it's near impossible to make core class like Engi or Ele to become "viable", since both of it's e-speces are built on top of it(core+), so any changes like buffing core will automatically buff them. A-net would need to redesign whole e-speces kitten from scratch lol.

    People enjoy different things. Some people like doing dot damage. Some people like doing power damage. Some people like to heal. Whether or not you think one kind of playstyle is the "lowest" is irrelevant.

    It is not impossible to buff condi engi without making meta engi builds more powerful. Condi engi's problem is that no singular tool it has is sufficient enough to pressure an opponent. Therefore it has to pile on multiple utilities to actually deal damage which leaves no room for any defensives. Or it runs the standard defensive loadout that all engis run and deals negligible damage. Buffing condi utilities like flamethrower/bomb kit/rocket kick/flame turret would have absolutely zero impact on prot or nade holo.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    For me core condi engi is actually playable and viable. I would rank it A-/B tier. The problem is you have to tryhard asf to do the same dmg than other condi build like prenerfed dh, condi herald, condi thief, condi ranger.
    Here is my version of core condi engi :

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    If I had god powers and could make any changes I wanted to condi engi, they would be as follows:

    • Incendiary Ammo now the 5 skill on flamethrower kit. Cooldown reduced to 30 seconds from 40. Duration reduced to 10 seconds from 45. Smoke Vent becomes the toolbelt and is also a stunbreak at a 35 second cooldown.
    • Poison Dart Volley attack speed, accuracy, and sounds now identical to the thief's pistol sneak attack. Renamed to Poison Round Volley. Graphically it would look like the thief's pistol sneak attack but with green streaks instead of red.
    • Fire Bomb applies a burn on the initial explosion.
    • Bomb Kit 1-5 fuse time reduced to 0.5 seconds from 1.
    • Rocket Kick applies 3 burns instead of 2.
    • Throw Napalm duration increased to 5 seconds from 3.
  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:
    @UNOwen.7132 And so I've been playing it ranked/AT and been winning and losing like I would on any professions, SoloQ and DuoQ. I got screens that can be easily shared and working on getting content to just randomly stitch for an upload.

    Core P/P works as you'd expect it and heavily reminds me of pre-feb patch so no matter, I'll keep disagreeing with your "decimated" statement on the traits, it's relatively the same as players are only asked to be consistent and clever, shocker. While on the adventure I've also came across people who disagree that Core Engi is unplayable, it's underrated rather.

    "Its relatively the same, you just do around 80% less damage while everyone else only does around 33% less damage, oh and your survivability and CC is terrible". You know, its also funny you try to argue that its not unplayable to people who, unlike you, know the class and the build. It is unplayable.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    If I had to rate each core engi build.

    Core Condi: Playable/Viable. But you need to put in more effort to get past it's skill floor than other classes, and then you need to go even further to surpass them. Not necessarily a bad thing though, some people like the challenge. PDV still needs to be updated to actually land against moving targets tho. This alone would be enough to elevate the build to good spot. Similar to how fixing bloodborne path/Sevenshot on Renegade made it a lot stronger.

    Core Power Engi: Neutered. It got shafted with one too many collateral nerfs. Bomb kit shorter fuses removed, Grenade nerfs, rifle nerfs. This build has to go full glass to have comparable damage to bruiser builds from other classes, and since you're running nades, you will be lacking in mobility or stunbreaks and/or cleanse as well. If running rifle, you will also have no blocks or evades in your build so you are an easy focus target.

    Core Support Engi: Barely on the cusp of being playable. In my experience this build is outclassed by med scrapper, which is already an off-meta support build. That said, it is capable of outputting a decent amount of chip healing in teamfights while cleansing allies. While scrapper can get away with running mender, I'd rather go sage on this build to buff the pressure of pistol and e-gun. I only run this over scrapper as a counterpick to 2+ necro comps. A well timed Moa into a lich or shroud can swing a fight.

    Core Bunker Engi: Also playable/underrated. Similar to the condi build, but with more emphasis on survival. If built for it, you can be a real pain to remove from a node while also having knockbacks to force a cap over time. Acid bomb and napalm together offer great node pressure while the blind field from mortars can shut down pressure from the opponent. You've also got multiple skills that inflict poison which should help you slowly chip away at the opponent's health in bunker v bunker matchups.

  • ellesee.8297ellesee.8297 Member ✭✭✭

    It's a little frustrating when I list why condi engi is so bad and people have responded with things like "uh no condi engi is good" without addressing any of my points or posting gameplay videos of double capping and clicking skills. The title of the thread is make condi engi great again and not can condi engi beat bronze players. Condi engi won the first gw2 world tournament even when it wasn't the go to meta build for engi. I want it to have that kind of representation.

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Core Condi: Playable/Viable. But you need to put in more effort to get past it's skill floor than other classes, and then you need to go even further to surpass them. Not necessarily a bad thing though, some people like the challenge. PDV still needs to be updated to actually land against moving targets tho. This alone would be enough to elevate the build to good spot. Similar to how fixing bloodborne path/Sevenshot on Renegade made it a lot stronger.

    How? How is it playable? I've brought up the fact that engi's condi utilities deal very little damage on their own so if you take just 1 with defensives, you deal no damage, and if you take multiple with few defensives, you just die with maybe a meme kill. But let's not address any points and say that poison dart volley of all skills is the culprit. Making that weak skill more accurate is just a 1:1 comparison with seven shot, a skill that does incredible damage.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 31, 2021

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    It's a little frustrating when I list why condi engi is so bad and people have responded with things like "uh no condi engi is good" without addressing any of my points or posting gameplay videos of double capping and clicking skills. The title of the thread is make condi engi great again and not can condi engi beat bronze players. Condi engi won the first gw2 world tournament even when it wasn't the go to meta build for engi. I want it to have that kind of representation.

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Core Condi: Playable/Viable. But you need to put in more effort to get past it's skill floor than other classes, and then you need to go even further to surpass them. Not necessarily a bad thing though, some people like the challenge. PDV still needs to be updated to actually land against moving targets tho. This alone would be enough to elevate the build to good spot. Similar to how fixing bloodborne path/Sevenshot on Renegade made it a lot stronger.

    How? How is it playable? I've brought up the fact that engi's condi utilities deal very little damage on their own so if you take just 1 with defensives, you deal no damage, and if you take multiple with few defensives, you just die with maybe a meme kill. But let's not address any points and say that poison dart volley of all skills is the culprit. Making that weak skill more accurate is just a 1:1 comparison with seven shot, a skill that does incredible damage.

    It's playable because, for all it's flaws it does one thing very well. Condi engi is proficient at wearing down opponents through a battle of attrition. A burst spec it is not, but it can unload an endless stream of pressure on you by roatating through it's cooldowns, easily applying 5 seperate damaging conditions at a time. This is a lot harder to cleanse than a single stack of conditions, even if the overall damage of all conditions combined does less burst damage than a single burning condition from a guardian.

    Pairing well with this playstyle, condi engi actually has some very solid sustain built into its kit. You have the pulsing heals of Super Elixir, some minor sustain from the alchemy traitline, regen and minor healing from med kit 5 -> 3 -> 4, a second heal-skill from suply crate + a toolbelt that heals and cleanses 14 conditions, and a low cooldown heal in bandage self (14 second cd if going a bunker varient with tools over firearms). All of these sources of healing add up to make condi engi deceptively durable. This helps them to outlast their opponents in a drawn out fight.

    In spite of all this, the class still has glaring weaknesses that leave it on the lower played end of the spectrum. It takes far more effort to see success on condi engi than on other condi builds. Why spend time learning 5 different weapon sets, making intelligent use of combo fields, and generally interacting with your opponent when you could just play burn DH, rotate through your PvE rotation and land multiple kills with a single dragon's maw?

    How frustrating is it to spend all fight outplaying a DH just for them to finally catch you in a dragon's maw and instantly win the fight? You don't have any single high impact skill that instantly turns a fight into your favor.

    Even post nerf DH still blows core engi's burst damage out of the water with burning alone. The effort to reward ratio is much higher on other builds than on condi engi. If that wasn't bad enough, you also have to accept that, despite being on the weaker end, there's no guarantee that another nerf isnt' lurking behind the corner. So long as Holo and Scrapper remain competetive, core engi isn't safe from nerfs. All these problems combined are why its playrate is so low.

    That being said, for those willing to put up with the nuisances of learning it, there are some neat things you can pull off to win games with it. That's why I say it's playable. You can win games as a condi core engi if you're willing to accept that you will need to put in more effort and/or be more skilled than your opponent to see equal results.

    It's an uphill battle, but that does not mean it's impossible.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    It's a little frustrating when I list why condi engi is so bad and people have responded with things like "uh no condi engi is good" without addressing any of my points or posting gameplay videos of double capping and clicking skills. The title of the thread is make condi engi great again and not can condi engi beat bronze players. Condi engi won the first gw2 world tournament even when it wasn't the go to meta build for engi. I want it to have that kind of representation.

    I think this one is for me. Double capping? Idgaf, I don't play unranked to win but to fight. So if someone runs to the same node as I do, I am not running the whole map to avoid that. I am not here to cap nodes.
    Clicking skills? Sure, my f1, f3 and #6 all have keybindings, but since I m playing the build in unranked, add in all the differents cd of every kits, that's too much brain effort for me. I only do that If I am 200% tryharding. But again it's unranked....
    And bronze players? Not only. I've been playing this build in unranked for like 2 months now and have been winning 1v1 (and some rare time 2v1) vs mid/high plat1.
    I think your frustration comes from the fact that you (and most people on this forum) have a binary vision of a build. It's either "good" and rekt 75% of the other builds, or it's either non "good". There is no middle ground. What you call "good" is what I call broken or close to broken.
    I started playing this game in 2015, so I wasn't there during the first world tournament. But after playing this game for 6 years, I have come to an empirical theory which is "The more overrepresented a spec is, the more broken it is, compared to the underrepresented ones".
    When I read this:

    @ellesee.8297 said:
    What we need is a hero. A hero that will rise up and take a look at what is keeping condi engi shackled in the bonds of uselessness, a hero that will correctly deduce that in a condi meta that is focused on applying as many intensity stacking conditions as possible in the shortest amount of time, the class must be able to do so with its burning tools: flamethrower, pistols, rocket boots, flame turret.

    I can't help myself from thinking that it's probably this same hero who thought that condi bomb mirage was "good" when POF was released.
    And you can already stack high amounts of burn/poison/confusion + cover condi but it's not just as simple as let's say condi thief.
    You don't want condi engi to be good. You want it to be broken, just say it.

  • Eugchriss.2046Eugchriss.2046 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    will need to put in more effort and/or be more skilled than your opponent to see equal results.

    This is exactly the issue. Most don't want to. I mean, why try harder when you can do the same stuff with less effort?