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pls deside the scourge nerfs fast

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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Just a headsup, that guy is a known troll. He is the one who goes in "circular conversations", and last time he kept insisting that movement speed in WvW is different than in PvE, even after 8+ people told him its the same. I hate to say it, but if he agrees with you, its almost certainly because youre wrong.

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    And thats what we had before. "Classes hitting each other for 0 damage" is what we have now.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    Because people get outnumbered and die as a result. Without outnumbering? Fights go on endlessly. If you ever saw a fight around tranquility in the temple map between 2 sidenoders, you know it literally never ends.

    I agrre with him,because he is right , instead you .

    You have never agreed with anyone who was right in your life. Mr "Your movement speed is different in WvW".

    Just like you whined that when you tried to cast Black Powder + Heartseeker , the enemy Enginner could drop a 100-nada your location and you couldnt do anything

    More like I pointed out that if a thief did that, I could burst him down, but go on.

    Imagine if you could cast Steal or Shadow portal to get out of the animation :PP

    Oh please, do waste highly valuable cooldowns to fix the mistake you made, that just makes my life easier.

    Or Mirror Blade + Mind Stab is from a un-avoidable burst combo , than you cant see and react to

    Its mirror blade into mind wrack actually, but go on.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Just a headsup, that guy is a known troll. He is the one who goes in "circular conversations", and last time he kept insisting that movement speed in WvW is different than in PvE, even after 8+ people told him its the same. I hate to say it, but if he agrees with you, its almost certainly because youre wrong.

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    And thats what we had before. "Classes hitting each other for 0 damage" is what we have now.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    Because people get outnumbered and die as a result. Without outnumbering? Fights go on endlessly. If you ever saw a fight around tranquility in the temple map between 2 sidenoders, you know it literally never ends.

    I agrre with him,because he is right , instead you .

    You have never agreed with anyone who was right in your life. Mr "Your movement speed is different in WvW".

    Just like you whined that when you tried to cast Black Powder + Heartseeker , the enemy Enginner could drop a 100-nada your location and you couldnt do anything

    More like I pointed out that if a thief did that, I could burst him down, but go on.

    Imagine if you could cast Steal or Shadow portal to get out of the animation :PP

    Oh please, do waste highly valuable cooldowns to fix the mistake you made, that just makes my life easier.

    Or Mirror Blade + Mind Stab is from a un-avoidable burst combo , than you cant see and react to

    Its mirror blade into mind wrack actually, but go on.

    a)You have listed an beautiful list of spells , that could make the Smesmers did 24 k damage . With 0-zero tell to react to . And you backed it up with your legendary math skills
    b)you told us that once the animation started (stealth combo) was initiated , you are doomed vs 100-nada and that you cant anything .

    Both times in these scenarios you whined about that kind of damage . And now you go in circular conversation that people loved Burst :P Your defence at that time "other classes can burst for more , so dont qq for thiefs "

    Edit: Meanwhile , try to reroll to Shiro Rev or Reaper or Core>Lich , if you want more front-loaded Burst :P
    In responce in 3 months from now , those Bunkers will reroll high mmobility classes to kill the infested Rev +Necro frontloaded classes
    (what ? do we have to delete amulets ..so they community changes the playstyle and after 3 months ewe introduce them again ? What is that ? Celestia Amulet tactic ?)

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    sniff

    You're not even funny at this point. Do you understand, that everything was buffed with HoT release, be it directly by +% here and there and indirectly by new sets? A lot of stuff that wasn't "OP" in core days suddenly've got broken damage in HoT, that's not kitten normal and for sure it wasn't skilled. For memes at HoT release I've created super tanky Herald build(WvW) with over 3k toughness, it freaking died in less than second with even prot to trap DH, you couln't even react to it and you say that it was balanced and healthy? Just because something isn't "abused" in current meta, it doesn't mean it's not "broken" one way or another, how many sleepers you think they are? Look at kitten Mirage, nerfed over and over and over again and someone still finds uber annoying build to deal with, same goes for whole HoT and PoF circus e-speces.

    Do you understand thats rubbish? Grenade kit wasnt buffed with HoT, nor did it get any new sets that affected it. It was simply the same weapon, forever. And it wasnt good, because its damage was too low. And along comes the february megapatch, which nerfs the damage so hard, that the grenade kit, an unusuable weapon since core, during which it was only good, not broken, got nerfed 4 times. HoT absolutely was skilled, as I said, its why the esports was at its best during it. If you died in less than a second with protection, then you made it up, trap DH never had that damage. You also could have not walked into the trap. And yes, when you nerf everything, previously nerfed builds come back, thats how powerdip works.

    The PvP back then was "most popular" only because of it "new shiny e-speces" and nothing beside that, it wasn't healthy in the slightest, or you wanna tell me you enjoyed the most engaging bunker Chronomancers? It was the same thing with PoF, "it new shiny thing". It was fast paced and one-shotting felt "good", oh wait, it didn't feel good to just delete players on left and right with few button presses. I've seen players that were trying to use core classes and they've failed and I utterly felt sorry for them.

    A nice hypothesis, but as is ever so often the case with anything you say, completely wrong. New things get people back for a month, maybe two. But then, it starts to fall off. If it wasnt good, it would fall off fast, as you can see with steam charts on other MMOs when they had less than stellar updates. But when it manages to go strong for 2 full years, then clearly it was good, else people would've quit it. No, it wasnt because it was the "shiny new thing", because in 2017 it already wasnt. It was because it was good.

    On top of that, you're fully aware that there were like 1-2 builds and you defend it? In HoT you had 6 traitlines, tons of skills, runes, sigils, weapons and skills and the best you could use was 1-2 builds? It's a kitten joke to even think that was healthy. In other words with so many possible combinations of choice, you were only capable of "choosing" only one viable build, because anything other than meta was deleted. That's a false illusion of "freedom", keep it up I guess.

    1-2 meta builds per class. Technically thats underselling it, a few classes had more, but yeah, thats a pretty good split for meta builds, and if we include off-meta ones, the number shoots up. Remember, were comparing to now, where its 0-1 meta build per class, and fewer off-meta builds too. Gap between meta and off-meta is larger too.

    Currently you can see more and more different builds that are capable of dealing with meta, imagine trying that in HoT, impossible.

    You absolutely do not. You see fewer and less different builds that are capable of dealing with meta. As I said, other than Revenant, every class has 0-1 meta build, and maybe 1 or 2 off-meta builds. Compared to HoTs 1-2 meta builds, and 3+ off-meta builds, thats embarassing.

    The current damage is NOT LOWER in the slightest, it's still high, but within acceptable spectrum. The damage shifted from Core to E-speces and nothing beside that. It's not like Greande Barrage damage wasn't buffed by 20% pre-PoF, right?

    It undeniably is lower. Were talking about 5k backstabs when the previous lowest was around 7k in core. Were talking about Grenade Kit doing too much damage. And the 20% buff pre-PoF was reverted with the february megapatch. After that, it was the exact same weapon set as in core. And despite being a weapon set that just did ok damage in core, in the post-patch meta, due to the massive powerdip and insane lowering of damage, suddenly it did way too much damage. So much that Grenade barrage was nerfed by 50% compared to core, and poison grenade by 60%.

    Playerbase went into "freefall", because powecreep was disgusting, PvE may be lively, because ehehe big numbers pewpew mobs faster, but in PvP was kitten circus, I highly doubt there are people that enjoy this kind of "playstyle".

    Im afraid youre blaming the wrong thing. The playerbase went into freefall not in HoT. Not in PoF. It got lower in both, but at a fairly constant rate you expect. No, we can pinpoint the moment in time in which it went into freefall very precisely. It was ... after the february megapatch. It was because of powerdip. And it doesnt matter if you doubt it, because we know that to be the case. PvP was more popular during high damage metas. If you ask people nowadays if they prefer pre or post-patch meta, over 60% will tell you they preferred pre-patch meta. And thats without including the people who left because the meta is trash now.

    I can see why people went "nope" after seeing HoT meta, it was funny for few months, but how long are you gonna enjoy PvE combat in PvP environment?

    They didnt. HoT PvP went pretty strong. They went nope after seeing the february megapatch.

    A-net have failed with designs for e-speces and didn't deliver what they've promised and that's a fact. Most e-speces are "core+", the only exception hilariously was Necromancer, which truly does change your playstyle.

    And thats besides the point.

    The dmg was pretty high back in hot, as you could still kill fairly fast, but it wasn-t as broken op as pof. Its the main reason people like me reminisce for hot days where dmg was decent not too high mechanics for spammin certain things linke insta evade 1 shot from stealth.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Once again, gonna call doubt. Core condi necro has around 30k hp, doesnt it? A thief can do maybe 10k in 5 seconds, so how are you getting killed in 5 seconds? Nvm the whole entering shroud thing,

    My build has 24k hp and i will make a log for you next time when i fight thief in 1vs1

  • georgessj.4198georgessj.4198 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    i get more and more games where i play against more than 2 scourges in ranked, i like the idea of removing marshall and menders but i think this will be not enaugh, maybe take a look at the corruption it takes.

    but pls make the nerfs fast, letting this class alone feels even worse than before, because so many run it now

    Why a quick one? I got tired when everybody was a rev and the game was a rev roulette (whoever has the most revs wins) same goes when our 80% rev population (not counting mesm bots) rerolled to guardian for quite some months.
    I say its only fair to give scourge some time. Besides its smart that since they cant balance the game they are using a troll op supercharge class rotation system.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @georgessj.4198 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    i get more and more games where i play against more than 2 scourges in ranked, i like the idea of removing marshall and menders but i think this will be not enaugh, maybe take a look at the corruption it takes.

    but pls make the nerfs fast, letting this class alone feels even worse than before, because so many run it now

    Why a quick one? I got tired when everybody was a rev and the game was a rev roulette (whoever has the most revs wins) same goes when our 80% rev population (not counting mesm bots) rerolled to guardian for quite some months.
    I say its only fair to give scourge some time. Besides its smart that since they cant balance the game they are using a troll op supercharge class rotation system.

    Doesn't excuse broken stuff. If something is broken it needs changes, but we need changes to happen more often.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Just a headsup, that guy is a known troll. He is the one who goes in "circular conversations", and last time he kept insisting that movement speed in WvW is different than in PvE, even after 8+ people told him its the same. I hate to say it, but if he agrees with you, its almost certainly because youre wrong.

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    And thats what we had before. "Classes hitting each other for 0 damage" is what we have now.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    Because people get outnumbered and die as a result. Without outnumbering? Fights go on endlessly. If you ever saw a fight around tranquility in the temple map between 2 sidenoders, you know it literally never ends.

    I agrre with him,because he is right , instead you .

    You have never agreed with anyone who was right in your life. Mr "Your movement speed is different in WvW".

    Just like you whined that when you tried to cast Black Powder + Heartseeker , the enemy Enginner could drop a 100-nada your location and you couldnt do anything

    More like I pointed out that if a thief did that, I could burst him down, but go on.

    Imagine if you could cast Steal or Shadow portal to get out of the animation :PP

    Oh please, do waste highly valuable cooldowns to fix the mistake you made, that just makes my life easier.

    Or Mirror Blade + Mind Stab is from a un-avoidable burst combo , than you cant see and react to

    Its mirror blade into mind wrack actually, but go on.

    a)You have listed an beautiful list of spells , that could make the Smesmers did 24 k damage . With 0-zero tell to react to . And you backed it up with your legendary math skills

    Under the old system, in theory, yes.

    b)you told us that once the animation started (stealth combo) was initiated , you are doomed vs 100-nada and that you cant anything .

    Thats what auto-defense traits are for.

    Both times in these scenarios you whined about that kind of damage . And now you go in circular conversation that people loved Burst :P Your defence at that time "other classes can burst for more , so dont qq for thiefs "

    No, I didnt, but I suppose if you dont create that strawman, your argument falls apart. The only one going in circles is you, once again. And yes, people preferred the old meta, thats not deniable, its just a fact.

    Anyway, if you could stop trolling again, that would be great. The forums were much more enjoyable when you werent around.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Once again, gonna call doubt. Core condi necro has around 30k hp, doesnt it? A thief can do maybe 10k in 5 seconds, so how are you getting killed in 5 seconds? Nvm the whole entering shroud thing,

    My build has 24k hp and i will make a log for you next time when i fight thief in 1vs1

    Go ahead, and dont fudge the numbers.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Once again, gonna call doubt. Core condi necro has around 30k hp, doesnt it? A thief can do maybe 10k in 5 seconds, so how are you getting killed in 5 seconds? Nvm the whole entering shroud thing,

    My build has 24k hp and i will make a log for you next time when i fight thief in 1vs1

    Go ahead, and dont fudge the numbers.

    I have no problem to say when i am wrong in something mate

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Hence why in WoW blizzard don't balance BGs. Because BG gameplay and arena gameplay simply don't play the game trying to balance em both is impossible because 1 will always feel bad.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @Daddy.8125 said:
    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    I just memed a couple games on Conjure Frost bow Staff Ele ... Takes 3-4 players to kill me in like 2-3 minutes. spamming conjure frostbow 1. Only thing that actually killed me was a Reaper...took him a while because i also had a bucket load of CC's.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Barrier cannot be stolen or boon ripped, but you were specifically talking about boon ripping so that what my argumentation turned around.

    As for the bonus damage that warrior have against barrier in tactic it create more balance issues than it solve because it doesn't give the increased damage against barrier itself but against foes that have barrier. While it may be balance against someone that have 5000 point of barrier (something that you can find on scourge), against someone that have 200 point of barrier (weaver for example) it's an overkill buff to damage. If anything ANet shouldn't put more of this into the game.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Lucentfir.7430 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @Xentera.4560 said:
    I’m honestly getting sick of all the threads about “pls nerf x”. How much more boring do u want this game mode to be?!!
    Scourge was nerfed repeatedly for the past 3 years to the degree of almost being unplayable. The reason u see it more often now is because anet also nerfed everything else. It’s becoming a boring, frustrating, viscious cycle.
    How bout instead of any more nerfs we balance some underperforming classes?

    Games with 2-3+ scourges are making the game boring. It makes the comps repeatitive.

    Variety is the spice of life.

    And the solution to that is buffing everyone else, not nerfing Scourge. Were already in horrible powerdip. Lets not double down on it.

    What you mean?. I see people killing others in seconds in some cases.

    Maybe if they're afk Glass Cannon Eles, but for regular players? Not really, they don't die even if they use their active defense poorly.

    The issue is because of builds such as scourge heavy damage comps are rarely used. Once nerfed it's likely we will see more burst mesmers etc etc opening up and the higher burst and damage comps.

    "Heavy damage comps" are rarely used because they don't exist. The highest a glass cannon can do is medium damage.

    But a glass cannon thief build or mesmer build can still blow someone up. It's just Ur basically useless when people are stacking scourge and tanky brawlers.

    They can't. A thief will have a hard time bursting someone for even 50% of their HP (and will usually have to be content with 25-35% as a glass cannon), and Mesmer can only just barely crack 50% now. Mesmer wasn't played since February ever, for a reason.

    Also your concept would put alot more pressure on the balancing comparitively. Rebalancing 99% of the professions would likely lead to another proffession being over buffed.

    If the alternative is to keep increasing powerdip, hurting the game more and more, thats still worth it. Alternatively admit the february megapatch was an unmitigated disaster, and revert everything since and including it.

    What you talking? I'm a revenant using the current renegade build and I've had a thief kill me in seconds. And that isn't even as a glass cannon build lol

    Gonna call hard doubt on that.

    You say 5k. Yet there's proof there's a thief build that can do 11k. The reason it isn't used is because they'd get blown up seconds after using it if another enemy showed up.

    There isnt. One guy did the math, but his math had a number of errors, in reality the max you can do realistically is around 8k with a completely unplayable build that will almost always do a lot less damage because its damage modifiers turn off.

    The current renegade build has 16922 health. Glass cannon mesmer as 15k hp.

    The Renegade build also has an extra 600 armour, and a number of damage reduction traits. On you, the standard 5k backstab turns into a 3k backstab. Hence the hard doubt.

    Your looking at classes that even Ur thief damage can 3 shot.

    Lets ignore that Renegade can't be 3-shot, or even remotely. There is one other issue. Thief can't use backstab more than once per fight, realistically. Almost all of their damage comes from that. They can "3-shot" you in the same sense a Warrior can 3-shot you with 3 eviscerates. In reality, thief does a 5k burst, and then does probably around 2k DPS before running away.

    If your three shotting people. U aren't "medium damage"..

    Good that no one is, and not even remotely.

    The problem is how hard some of these builds can bunker that's the issue. Not the damage output.

    The damage output is the issue, most builds arent even bunkering that much.

    I've been dropped by thief's very quickly several times there's no hard doubt about it. The games pace feels pretty fast most situations

    Once again, with your build, Im gonna call doubt. Even the glassiest thief, fighting you when youre not fighting back, will probably need 10+ seconds to kill you. If you fight back, they cant kill you at all. So your idea of "being dropped by thieves quickly" is nonsense. Unless you meant to add "when I was on 20% hp". The game pace feels glacially slow in all situations. CMC even mentioned it in the patch notes as their big problem.

    We don't need to run around with every proffession 2 shot bursting one another. That's not "skillful". Being able to spam 1 faster then another player just means u can play a flashy game of snap.

    Thats the beauty of it though. That isnt what happened. What we had was the threat of being 2-touched. But you rarely ever got 2-touched. The average fight lasted 30 seconds to a minute. Its much like fighting games. High damage forces you to play as cleanly as possible with as few mistakes as possible, if you make a mistake, you eat a lot of damage. That is skillful. Its why fighting games are such a hard genre. Now? You can make mistake after mistake, since damage is so low, you cant really be punished for that. And since damage is so low, you just spam off cooldown. That is indeed skillless.

    If your butchering people faster then they can react. It's no longer skillful. And it seems like that's what you want in the game which is ridiculous.

    Again, didnt really happen, the threat was there, but it was just a threat.

    WoW is currently quite litterally bleeding to death currently for introducing the PvP meta you proclaim this game needs.

    I dont play WoW, but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess that youre completely misrepresenting the situation. Aaaand its not. Seems the general consensus is that the meta isnt ideal, but its better than the low-damage tank meta they had before by a mile. Gee, I wonder why.

    Plus, yknow, GW2 PvP is currently quite literally bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta you proclaimed this game needs.

    Didn't say the game needed the current meta. And no it isn't bleeding to death for introducing the PvP meta.

    If you believe this games biggest reason for quitting is it's PvP meta your wrong I'm afraid.

    In WoW the reason the PvP meta is killing the game is because BiS gearing for PvE content is currently earnt by PVP.

    I am not misrepresenting the problem. Lol. WoW on SL launch was heavily over the Top. As the characters were balanced with borrowed power in mind. Borrowed power which hadn't been unlocked.

    There's a litteral video taking the p*ss out of WoWs SL pvp because of how one shotty it is.

    And my build is the build on metabattle lol. I dunno how far up the PvP ladder you are. But I'm afraid your gonna have to accept the fact that yea maybe Ur correct under perfectly played circumstances these classes aren't doing this.

    Take a silver/gold game and these players aren't playing perfectly. And mistakes or lack of utilising defensives properly will mean u die faster.

    And no. WoW has a certain population of the playerbase who like the current what they call "fast meta". And it isn't. WoWs lead Dev went on call with one of the bigger wow players and said it's OTT but they don't want to overnerf it.

    WoW isn't "fast meta" it's become twitch reaction based. Something a mmorpg litterally should NEVER be introducing.

    Go look up WoW Boomkin PvP convoke the spirits.

    This ability fires 16 spells at full damage over 3 seconds at 0 resource usuage.. you can also manage it as it won't target CC'd players so can cc one and then convoke the other for a strong ST burst.

    Look up the 3 rogue Arena team.

    And definitely look up the paladin + Boomkin combo.

    This isn't misrepresented. Maybe that's how you want a game to look like. But insta dying before even reaching a target isn't fun.

    Why are you being dishonest? WoW bleeding players isn't because of PvP meta, as a mater of fact it's actually one of the best things going for it right now in the expansion. Fun fact for people that don't play WoW they purposefully neutered the reward output for PVE/M+/Raids(and even nerfed gear level to boot) so you get less loot overall for completing them, which is why the valor system got put in place(even though it's pretty tedious if you're doing them through callings). PVP gearing on the other hand is the best source for gear right now because they have a vendor you can buy gear from and upgrade, for honor(currency), then if you want to push for higher end gear you do rated and get rated pieces of gear which you can upgrade by pushing your rating via rated Arena/Battlegrounds and using both honor and another currency from ranked (conquest).

    Another reason why WoW is bleeding players is because there's nothing to do for the next 4 months since 9.1 isn't coming until then, and maybe a contributing factor, but blizzard is pushing out the way you buy game time if you're not running a sub. I get the feeling you don't play WoW pvp very much and just use the easiest thing that was complained about a few months ago. Fun fact too about convoke it becomes less effective at nuking people down with more targets to hit it can be LoS'd, and a 3 minute cooldown that can be interrupted. My druid main friend especially hates fighting Shamans with the earth elemental pet. You'll bring Paladins, Rogues and Druids into this but why don't you bring up Windwalker Monks, Arms Warriors, Shadow priests, and Fire mages Ele shamans? Wonder what your opinion on all those are?

    Gw2's combat system is vastly superior to WoW's system, twitch based gameplay also works here because on top of the number of defensive tools in your arsenal/build. you also have the baseline defensive of directional evasion (haha just dodge lmao) as much people like to meme about that because of a high burst meta back then , it's an essential tool to surviving pvp situations. Gw2 combat is hard, your gear grind is through knowledge(via classes, interactions, understanding your own class) and learning the animations, Not to mention nitt picking this detail from WoW , in Gw2 things won't hit you unless you're actually within their striking range, or projectiles actually make contact with you. Final note BFA WoW pvp was total garbage, SL PvP was something I legitimately enjoyed for the time I was playing it, because it didn't feel like a total slog,

    i think ur the one being dishonest, the Arena Forum,s are full of far more complaints about the pvp meta then actually people being positive surrounding it.. and far more quitting stating about the pvp meta. then there are those appraising it.

    they're screeching at blizzard to balance pvp. type nerf convoke into their post search.. i wonder how many posts u'l;l get

    He whined that theif could do 17k burst back then , while mesmers could do 24k
    He tried to go into circullar conversation , that the Problem with the game was with Memsers burst + 100-nades that where un-avoidable , and the community should whine about then , instead than Thief .
    Can you imagine if the company saw theses converstions and re-thought about the "dps arm race" and tried to scale it down ?:P
    Tell him to use Power Rev/Necro ,if he wants more burst , just like the victims should play Thief to learn how to counter Thief

    That actually doesn't suprise me in the slightest. I find most people want a burst meta back til they find out that their favourite class aren't the ones face rolling each other. And they love to screech it's more "skill based"

    Just a headsup, that guy is a known troll. He is the one who goes in "circular conversations", and last time he kept insisting that movement speed in WvW is different than in PvE, even after 8+ people told him its the same. I hate to say it, but if he agrees with you, its almost certainly because youre wrong.

    Even tho I'd argue a longer fight is more skill based then one another aslong as the longevity of the fight is down to the ability to utilise the class. Ofcourse if it's just down to classes hitting each other for 0 damage then it'd be a worthwhile case.

    And thats what we had before. "Classes hitting each other for 0 damage" is what we have now.

    But I'm yet to see fights last that long. I watched plenty of SPVP and more and I'm not seeing anyone suffering the problems they proclaim 🤣

    Because people get outnumbered and die as a result. Without outnumbering? Fights go on endlessly. If you ever saw a fight around tranquility in the temple map between 2 sidenoders, you know it literally never ends.

    I agrre with him,because he is right , instead you .

    You have never agreed with anyone who was right in your life. Mr "Your movement speed is different in WvW".

    Just like you whined that when you tried to cast Black Powder + Heartseeker , the enemy Enginner could drop a 100-nada your location and you couldnt do anything

    More like I pointed out that if a thief did that, I could burst him down, but go on.

    Imagine if you could cast Steal or Shadow portal to get out of the animation :PP

    Oh please, do waste highly valuable cooldowns to fix the mistake you made, that just makes my life easier.

    Or Mirror Blade + Mind Stab is from a un-avoidable burst combo , than you cant see and react to

    Its mirror blade into mind wrack actually, but go on.

    a)You have listed an beautiful list of spells , that could make the Smesmers did 24 k damage . With 0-zero tell to react to . And you backed it up with your legendary math skills

    Under the old system, in theory, yes.

    b)you told us that once the animation started (stealth combo) was initiated , you are doomed vs 100-nada and that you cant anything .

    Thats what auto-defense traits are for.

    Both times in these scenarios you whined about that kind of damage . And now you go in circular conversation that people loved Burst :P Your defence at that time "other classes can burst for more , so dont qq for thiefs "

    No, I didnt, but I suppose if you dont create that strawman, your argument falls apart. The only one going in circles is you, once again. And yes, people preferred the old meta, thats not deniable, its just a fact.

    Anyway, if you could stop trolling again, that would be great. The forums were much more enjoyable when you werent around.

    The forums are live-er with of us here .
    It doesnt require great maths for the tactic , you are trying to use now . Try to be-firend with people , so they stir/push the company for more damage . And when they buff all classes , you will do same "other clases have more things , so dont qq about Thief " with circullar conversations .

    You whined about other claases , just like you tried to persued me that Mesmer could do 24 k , with mirror blade into mind wrack , just in the previous post . r he Engin nada , he could burst you down while you tried Black-Heartseerker .
    You did the Same about Rapid Fire and 40k Burn Guardians + Necro Axe 2 that could do 10k/with Spine 50% Hp proc :P

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle. And ofcourse I'm talking before messing up.

    But again Ive been flattened very quickly messing up in gw2 now. Lol.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    You clearly haven't. Yes, a gank makes it easier, but its far from required. You can also just wait for the enemy to mess up, waste their defense, and then rush them down. Assassins have the easiest time of course, but mages, bruisers, even ADCs can do it. Tanks, maybe not, but thats why theyre tanks.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    Because people rotate around to prevent it. You dont get the opportunity for long 1v1s to begin with. But if you ever feel like witnessing it, look out for high level play on temple. You might be able to spot it when tranquility spawns. If 1 player from each team goes down to tranquility, and the match is otherwise even? They'll stay deadlocked in an infinite 1v1 down there until the end of the game. No one coming to back them up, and as a result, neither of them dying. Or they realise there is no point in fighting and just do synchronised dancing.

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    You said you were playing Renegade, yes? Yeah no, even if you went literally afk, it'd take a while to kill you. Let alone by a Warrior.

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    It absolutely is glacially paced, CMC even said as much in the patchnotes as something thats a huge problem. And the video you showed showed a bad build doing that against enemies that forgot how to press buttons. Its bad because if they just survive the initial burst, which is trivial, his damage evaporates.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Yeah no. The games at the highest level are glacial, and for a good reason.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    No, you see fights lasting forever even if one players makes a bunch of mistakes. Look at some top tier play some time, it will be Enlightening.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    Again, on renegade, literally impossible.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    Once again, on Renegade, literally impossible. Pre-feb Mesmer wouldn't even have been able to do that, and that was before the powerdip.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    No, but I'd appreciate if you stopped using strawmen to hide your lack of an actual argument. What I want is a skillful games where you can punish mistakes sufficiently. Right now, I can kitten up my dodge, mistime my Elixir S, use my healing skill too early ... and I still am not at any risk of dying in a 1v1. Thats boring. Its boring if I can mess up repeatedly and it doesnt matter because damage just doesnt exist. If I have to essentially be afk, just to potentially die? Why even play the game then? No, what you want is the current state. Where mistakes dont matter. Where you can kitten up over and over and not get punished. Because when the game was skillful, as it was pre-february, it was too hard for you.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Another strawman. Whats actually happening is people wait to burst when they make a mistake, then that "burst" does less than 25% of their hp in damage, they recover easily, and the fight goes on ad infinitum.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele
    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P
    -30% less defence , for +30% increase damage , seems fair

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    Just like your Enginner , that need to get a 4 sec Burn trait , in a Crit tree

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .
    And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .
    Its a Win Win situation .
    Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .
    When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay
    Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness Amuelts
    And if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

  • Just had a game with 3 scourges on one side and 2 + 1 guard support on the other. You can imagine the rest....

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .
    And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .
    Its a Win Win situation .
    Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .
    When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay
    Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness Amuelts
    And if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .

    Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

    Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .
    And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .
    Its a Win Win situation .
    Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .
    When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay
    Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness Amuelts
    And if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .

    Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

    Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

    All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :P
    You want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this meta
    As you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .
    And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .
    Its a Win Win situation .
    Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .
    When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay
    Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness Amuelts
    And if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .

    Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

    Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

    All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :P

    And yet they're barely slower. And better in every other regard.

    You want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this meta

    Its not? Its something, helps you survive when outnumbered, besides the point is to make thief a sidenode duelist, if were gonna buff everyones damage up, thief also needs survivability boosts, so no removing of any, and just adding more.

    As you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

    Can. The threat of it happening is there. But as I explained before, its the threat thats important, not it happening. Then again I dont know why I bother. You have shown that you are strictly opposed to learning, and would rather remain proudly ignorant rather than humbly knowledgable. So, do everyone a favour, and never post about topics you dont understand again.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

  • Killthehealersffs.8940Killthehealersffs.8940 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .
    And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .
    Its a Win Win situation .
    Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .
    When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay
    Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness Amuelts
    And if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    But you want more damage to your class .

    Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

    Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

    All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :P

    And yet they're barely slower. And better in every other regard.

    You want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this meta

    Its not? Its something, helps you survive when outnumbered, besides the point is to make thief a sidenode duelist, if were gonna buff everyones damage up, thief also needs survivability boosts, so no removing of any, and just adding more.

    As you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

    Can. The threat of it happening is there. But as I explained before, its the threat thats important, not it happening. Then again I dont know why I bother. You have shown that you are strictly opposed to learning, and would rather remain proudly ignorant rather than humbly knowledgable. So, do everyone a favour, and never post about topics you dont understand again.

    And yet Thief is faster
    If Thief need 30% damage reduction + the Acro tree to survive teamfights , then it doesnt need damage
    Its no longer Assasin , but a Bruiser

    So if he has that Survibility in teafights , then the whole Argurment , that Moba = die in 1-2 sec , is invalid
    Either he will have =3-% more damage to Fight the single noder , or 30% reduction for teamfights :P

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

    You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

    This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

    Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

    Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

    That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

    Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

    Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

    Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

    You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

    Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

    This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

    This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

    Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

    Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

    That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

    That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

    Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

    No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

    Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

    As mentioned above, they'Re not.

    Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

    You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

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    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

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    @Daddy.8125 said:

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    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

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    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

    You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

    Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

    This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

    This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

    Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

    Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

    That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

    That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

    Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

    No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

    Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

    As mentioned above, they'Re not.

    Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

    You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

    Or self-subtain need a nerf .
    Lets nerf Bunk and classes that have 30% damage reduction :P

    1) at the "Shout your favorite Team" section show a 8 sec lighthearted speedrun Sion killing kill Dragon>lvl up>Dab>Tower>Base>Win 2)Also tips when the enemy Hit the Tower,Inhibitor-Dragon -simple 9 yearwords (what is Soul?)3) Show a card "C9 aim is CC in mass battle""vs "TL kill the sqissy"

  • Daddy.8125Daddy.8125 Member ✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

    You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

    Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

    This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

    This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

    Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

    Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

    That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

    That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

    Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

    No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

    Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

    As mentioned above, they'Re not.

    Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

    You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

    well u may not fight 5 on 5 but i wouldnt say i've experienced many 1 on 1s... normally atleast someone on one side gets involved.. unless we're talking Solo queues with 0 Communication?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Daddy.8125 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Snip!

    Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

    What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

    Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

    Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

    Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

    Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

    Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

    Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

    Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

    Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

    NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their well rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

    As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

    I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

    Nope, barrier is not a boon.

    Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

    Not sure what youre referring to?

    How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

    Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

    Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

    If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

    Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

    If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

    U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

    Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

    The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

    Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period before the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

    Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

    The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it should work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

    The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

    I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

    GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

    And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

    I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

    Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

    Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

    Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

    In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

    Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

    Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

    Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

    If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

    I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

    If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

    Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

    The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

    However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

    I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

    It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

    If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

    Tip :
    Tell him :
    "How about removing the damage reduction from https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Marauder's_Resilience + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weakening_Strikes + https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant (all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibility
    and
    put 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

    Since when do you want to buff thief?

    You are trying :P
    Telling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

    Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

    Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

    10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

    Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

    Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

    Edit , what ?
    We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :P
    So we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

    So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

    "In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"
    So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .
    That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

    You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

    I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

    I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

    It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

    The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

    Which was already the case before.

    For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

    If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

    It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

    Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

    There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

    Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

    But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

    You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

    The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

    So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

    If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

    Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

    It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

    That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

    Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

    No, thats the same as case 1.

    If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

    As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

    You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

    Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

    This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

    This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

    Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

    Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

    That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

    That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

    Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

    No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

    Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

    As mentioned above, they'Re not.

    Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

    You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

    well u may not fight 5 on 5 but i wouldnt say i've experienced many 1 on 1s... normally atleast someone on one side gets involved.. unless we're talking Solo queues with 0 Communication?

    You dont experience many of them right now, because they are infinite and pointless, so someone will always rotate around to +1. But, thats the issue. On the other hand, when 1v1s actually finished? It wasnt uncommon to see a sidenoder duel reach a conclusion.