Tagless commanding is hurting wvw and servers — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Tagless commanding is hurting wvw and servers

Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

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Comments

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm not sure I would put this on top of my list for changes in wvw.. :/

  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    This is a case of "don't hate the player, hate the game".

    The system right now is either there is a tag or the game is dead for all intents and purposes. That needs to change.

  • TinkTinkPOOF.9201TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player?

    Wanna Duel?

    "When you power creep the game and make it so that spam gameplay is nearly as effective as deep knowledge and nuance, the quality of players will decrease." -Exedore

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Do commanders still blame pugs when they run private and yet still get one push wiped?
    Asking for science.

    No they blaim the roamers across the map for not being in the squad and then when the roamers join the squad they blaim the roamers for not capping the camps across the map.

    So true...

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    No expansion money as long as Mesmers are trash. - Me

  • @Dravvi.3146 said:
    As a tag for piken square I actually 100% agree with this but one thing you stated does actually bug me a little bit.

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    I won't join the squad

    This is the most common reason for commanders to tag down, solo mentalities of players.

    theyd have to actually tag first in order to detag

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    Claim buff and relinkings are the problem.

    Simply fix those.

    90% pugs just suck, and if you throw one servers pugs 800 extra stats, there are no fights to be had.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    twitch.tv/ribatime
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    everyone knows the pain of a server not having any commanders, or only tags during primetime, but no one owes you anything.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    Guilds follow a tag around AND they can see each others locations across all 4 maps.. what scrubs with their crutches.

    Us pugs get nothing, have no visible way of seeing where each other are on any map. Like i want to be typing locations every minute to keep making sure everyone logging in from moment to moment is aware where the frontline is. Remove tags and give everyone guild EZ mode.

  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @acdspydar.8920 said:
    Sorry mayne, I'm going to run tagless/private and here's why:
    • it shouldn't be my job to lead that map alone
    • not everyone can put up with endless criticism and constant demands to tag up
    • i, as a commander, am a very rude person want to raid? Join the guild.

    This guy gets it. Nobody wants to tag or join his guild. But sadly guild mechanics are a big part of WvW. ALOT of it. Low cost guild siege, tactivators, friendly dots visible on all maps, aura buffs.. I mean yeah WvW is designed for guilds to lead and not to be.. that way.. but whatever. Not all guilds are capable of surviving and often wipe along with the pugs.

    Maybe it shouldn't be so centered around guilds that play maybe once a week but that's just how it is.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @displayname.8315 said:
    Guilds follow a tag around AND they can see each others locations across all 4 maps.. what scrubs with their crutches.

    Us pugs get nothing, have no visible way of seeing where each other are on any map. Like i want to be typing locations every minute to keep making sure everyone logging in from moment to moment is aware where the frontline is. Remove tags and give everyone guild EZ mode.

    You got the solution all wrong though.

    Clearly whats needed there is that every single player runs with a tag up, all the time.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • distant.9403distant.9403 Member ✭✭

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    I have experienced this problem many times, closed or hidden tags, antisocial behavior from players and or commanders in groups or zergs.
    I agree with you generally as a 4-5 week newcomer to wvw and wanting to learn from more experienced people and get that experience from a group that has it, problem is 99% of the time they are too elitist and reluctant to impart their treasured knowledge and experience. I'm not sure why on earth this is and if they are in fact pre-judging other players or 'pugs' before they even know who or what they are about or their skill level and abilities. A worrying trend I also see is it is very hard to find a helpful and balanced guild these days that is ready and willing to 'lower themselves' to be social and helpful or wow to maybe train you a bit. On the other hand though, a good +ve experience I had recently was when I was on a server I transferred from, an open tag commander came on one time and asked for people to join for about 10 -15 mins till there was a group of about 20+ ppl, asked those that have to join discord. The commander gave a quick 5 min tutorial about staying on the tag and how to move etc, and relayed this through the chat for the ones that don't have discord to listen to. Within 20 mins or so we had a pretty good 'tight' squad made of random people which grew to about 45 in then end, of course we all went on to do very well, almost cleaning the whole map, learning a lot from each other and most importantly having a lot of fun together without exclusion or prejudice. The finer points of more skilled wvw play can be learned at a later stage as players learn more and more as they go, but they have to start somewhere. Starting a random squad IMHO hardly ever works like a proper tag does, 300 gold is beyond most ppl too. Besides, some players might also like to be part of a bigger group because they don't want to lead because of the fear of failure or embarrassment or their skill level is not so high, god forbid you might also be a very skilled player and want to join a group to help others in the group by example. The 'culture' at the moment is like 'oh look at that stupid idiot they don't even know this that or the other' I think It's high time all you people that take yourselves way too seriously and think you are better than all the vast majority of others to step down off your high Warclaw and pedestals and remember you once knew little or nothing at all about this game too.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Claim buff and relinkings are the problem.

    Simply fix those.

    90% pugs just suck, and if you throw one servers pugs 800 extra stats, there are no fights to be had.

    Uh thread is about tagless commanding...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Claim buff and relinkings are the problem.

    Simply fix those.

    90% pugs just suck, and if you throw one servers pugs 800 extra stats, there are no fights to be had.

    Uh thread is about tagless commanding...

    Thread is about servers needing a tag or else they won't play. So it would help. But there needs to be some better way to find the battlefront.

  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @displayname.8315 said:
    Guilds follow a tag around AND they can see each others locations across all 4 maps.. what scrubs with their crutches.

    Us pugs get nothing, have no visible way of seeing where each other are on any map. Like i want to be typing locations every minute to keep making sure everyone logging in from moment to moment is aware where the frontline is. Remove tags and give everyone guild EZ mode.

    You got the solution all wrong though.

    Clearly whats needed there is that every single player runs with a tag up, all the time.

    Whatever removes the need for guilds and their WvW mechanics. Since those mechanics are relied on by the whole team, and they clearly don't want to be team players.

  • Dravvi.3146Dravvi.3146 Member ✭✭

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:

    @Dravvi.3146 said:
    As a tag for piken square I actually 100% agree with this but one thing you stated does actually bug me a little bit.

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    I won't join the squad

    This is the most common reason for commanders to tag down, solo mentalities of players.

    theyd have to actually tag first in order to detag

    Thanks for that absolutely incredible insight, it's mind blowing.

  • As a commander there are multiple reasons to go tagless:
    first : if you want to simply do a guild raid, you will go hidden tag there because you usually want to improve your group and fight with friends in a competitive manner against equally competitive people

    second: You want higher quality, now hold on, I know this might seem mean and condescending but I've had it happen that going from open tag accepting both discord and non discord people to a discord only hidden tag loosing around 10 people. That move helped us win the fight because next time we faced the enemy, we did not have people going off tag (doesn't have to be by much to be picked off) and dying rallying the enemies we just killed putting us at an instant disadvantage.
    We were also finally able to stealth without having one or two loosing stealth after two seconds or not have stealth at all ruining the whole point of it.

    Thirdly: this is personal and it might not be every commander but I find it exhausting to always have to think about the people following around the squad because their contribution to the fights can vary greatly due to numbers or simply having a tougher time due to not having boons in some fights more than others, that means it's one more thing for the commander to worry about.

    If you think commanders are just being petty, that may be true in certain cases but anyway, who do you think you are to tell commanders what to do? Commanding is not easy, you have to worry about playing correctly, as well as leading the movement for your squad, worry about cooldowns and when and where to call different abilities at the same time. If commanders find it more fun/ less stressful or anything else to lead tagless then it's their right to do so, if it's an open tag then join discord to get an invite, if it's a guild raid then join the guild to follow them or ask to guest if they are willing to accept you.

    Now I know it sucks for new comers which is why I mostly leave my tag visible but that is not for every commander and not in every situation if you're not happy with it,.... deal with it and tag up I guess.

    I also know that not all of the people not following on discord are bad far from it I've done my fair share of following without being on discord for several reasons however in general, quality will go down a bit which can sometimes hurt a lot and bother commanders.

    Thank you for reading my rant, please be do not be toxic to your commanders if you want more open tags ^^

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't have issue with Private Tags but I agree when there are no Public Tags at all then yes the maps start to feel dead to those not in the squad unless you know where the action is.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I don't have issue with Private Tags but I agree when there are no Public Tags at all then yes the maps start to feel dead to those not in the squad unless you know where the action is.

    Which is most definetly their own fault most of the time though. I dont know how it is on your server but on mine people have zero map awareness, atrocious response times to scout calls and stay on walls in a 10vs5 scenario even when they see 1-3 people attempt an attack.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • WindBlade.8749WindBlade.8749 Member ✭✭✭

    This is litteraly the same kitten logic as to complain about lfg requirement

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @OP I don't think it's that at all. Usually people do this because there's buttholes that put alt accounts on other servers to spy and that causes squads to be less effective. My current WvW guild I was able to join because I saw them running around and i asked to be invited and they invited me. And I run with them once a week when I have time. Sometimes more often. At least here on NA HoD, we've got a pretty good culture.

    I thought the same thing you did, but I get it after I've gotten more used to WvW culture. Usually servers tend to be cohesive, especially in WvW where cooperation can only help you. You're welcome to spend 300g and run your own public tag. We have 2 celebrities that do that often in HoD.

    Also I've tried running my tag a couple times when i was new, often people didn't join me because they didn't know me. Also, I'm not that experienced. Commander experience matters. I'd say an inexperienced one is better than none, but just expect people to drop if you're not successful. I only care about pipz, so I'm easy to please in that regard.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @acdspydar.8920 said:
    Sorry mayne, I'm going to run tagless/private and here's why:

    • my group is here to have fun, not be your entertainment
    • i, as a commander, am a very rude person with flavorful language
    • everyone has a tag, so it shouldn't be my job to lead that map alone
    • not everyone can put up with endless criticism and constant demands to tag up
    • neither my guild nor myself owe anyone a kitten thing
    • want to raid? Join the guild.

    I'm not the only one who feels this way, so i will say this: stop being entitled and learn to do it yourself. There's plenty of resources and groups available, self included, who are excited to work with new players who want to give WvW their all.

    Close thread pls

    Yes, people know you're not the only one who feels that way, which is why most people now don't bother with squads or entitled high maintenance tags.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To be fair, I've yet to see a pug try and play for the sake of the zerg.

    They could have ran like, literally any build which is self sufficient, good durability, and knows how to follow the commander etc.

    But do yu know what I see the most?
    Full Zerker Scourges who often times just end up as Rallybots, because they want loot.

    And the worst offenders are those who are obviously not part of a Squad, but when whole Squad prepares to stealth bomb, they who are not part of the Squad follows the Stealthed group essentially acting as a marker and giving away the bomb.

    So yes, I do think pugs aren't great if they can't even comprehend why, how and when they should act in organised ZvZ.

    I often pug myself, but I don't stick to the zerg.
    I tap keeps, I join the fight after the main force pushes, and I pick off their tail or flip camps.

    If I wanna zerg, I join a call with an actual role like Scrapper or Shoutbreaker, and they usually accept me even as a guildless pug.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    To be fair, I've yet to see a pug try and play for the sake of the zerg.

    They could have ran like, literally any build which is self sufficient, good durability, and knows how to follow the commander etc.

    But do yu know what I see the most?
    Full Zerker Scourges who often times just end up as Rallybots, because they want loot.

    And the worst offenders are those who are obviously not part of a Squad, but when whole Squad prepares to stealth bomb, they who are not part of the Squad follows the Stealthed group essentially acting as a marker and giving away the bomb.

    So yes, I do think pugs aren't great if they can't even comprehend why, how and when they should act in organised ZvZ.

    I often pug myself, but I don't stick to the zerg.
    I tap keeps, I join the fight after the main force pushes, and I pick off their tail or flip camps.

    If I wanna zerg, I join a call with an actual role like Scrapper or Shoutbreaker, and they usually accept me even as a guildless pug.

    You mean any non-soulbeast ranger?

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    You mean any non-soulbeast ranger?

    Rangers actually kind of durable tho.
    Zerker Scourges literally implode on contact, and don't run mobility skills.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    You mean any non-soulbeast ranger?

    Rangers actually kind of durable tho.
    Zerker Scourges literally implode on contact, and don't run mobility skills.

    You can cover mistakes of scourges with scrapper superspeed and stability plus you can convert those scourges easily into the meta WVW scourge by experience. You can't cover someone trying to run a PVE spirit druid , pistol deadeye, or "maximum tagging" greatsword mirage build. The difference is one is actually trying to run remotely a WVW build.

    @RisenHowl.2419 said:
    -who knows what the pug that refuses to communicate is running. If your comp relies on applying 0 conditions so their scrappers can't generate boons and you pick up a pug who wants to roleplay as an ice princess that maximizes chill output, that pug is giving the entire enemy squad free alacrity.

    Some people reading the forums with no WXP could think this is an April Fools joke, but it actually happens.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:

    You mean any non-soulbeast ranger?

    Rangers actually kind of durable tho.
    Zerker Scourges literally implode on contact, and don't run mobility skills.

    You can cover mistakes of scourges with scrapper superspeed and stability plus you can convert those scourges easily into the meta WVW scourge by experience. You can't cover someone trying to run a PVE spirit druid , pistol deadeye, or "maximum tagging" greatsword mirage build.

    True, but I can't cover Mr IWantLoot42069 over there if they don't listen to commander and is still killing Boiling Pot number 3 while an enemy zerg is going for the surround.

    Point here is this :
    If yu wanna follow a tag, listen to them.
    Every mistake yu make costs something, at the very least, costs a squad slot to someone who actually listens and follows orders.

    Rack up enough mistakes and yu will be quick to be blacklisted.

    I've seen plenty of players who are perma-banned from tags because they pull dumb stunts like SHIFTING THE CATAPULT AIM 180 DEGREES FOR NO REASON and USING TRANSFUSION, PULLING THEIR DOWNED GROUP INTO FIRE BEFORE DYING THEMSELVES.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    To be fair, I've yet to see a pug try and play for the sake of the zerg.

    They could have ran like, literally any build which is self sufficient, good durability, and knows how to follow the commander etc.

    But do yu know what I see the most?
    Full Zerker Scourges who often times just end up as Rallybots, because they want loot.

    Though I have to say, as someone that rarely zerg, the zerker meta scourge is probably the most durable pug zerger damage build I can run while being "effective", in the sense I am pretty bad on a necro overall but I can still do heavy damage to an enemy zerg that push us by facerolling all the buttons.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    To be fair, I've yet to see a pug try and play for the sake of the zerg.

    They could have ran like, literally any build which is self sufficient, good durability, and knows how to follow the commander etc.

    But do yu know what I see the most?
    Full Zerker Scourges who often times just end up as Rallybots, because they want loot.

    And the worst offenders are those who are obviously not part of a Squad, but when whole Squad prepares to stealth bomb, they who are not part of the Squad follows the Stealthed group essentially acting as a marker and giving away the bomb.

    So yes, I do think pugs aren't great if they can't even comprehend why, how and when they should act in organised ZvZ.

    I often pug myself, but I don't stick to the zerg.
    I tap keeps, I join the fight after the main force pushes, and I pick off their tail or flip camps.

    If I wanna zerg, I join a call with an actual role like Scrapper or Shoutbreaker, and they usually accept me even as a guildless pug.

    Depends on the servers, it seems. (noted these things when links change) Some servers seem to have more pugs willing to get on discord and running semi-standard builds. Also back in the day when server communities were a thing, you would get people broadcasting nonstop on t1 servers to bring so and so build.

    Of course, none of this applies to my home server where people run.... I'd be surprised if they even knew what their build was-- they're just incomprehensibly awful. (It's like glass without the cannon) I would like to say that it probably is just from Open World PvE, but that's probably too generous.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:

    Of course, none of this applies to my home server where people run.... I'd be surprised if they even knew what their build was-- they're just incomprehensibly awful. (It's like glass without the cannon) I would like to say that it probably is just from Open World PvE, but that's probably too generous.

    What irks me the most is that some pugs have the audacity to act like they are entitled a squad spot if they run a certain build. Like look, maybe the squad's full, so why are yu throwing a hissy fit about private tags?

    And there are cases where many of these pugs don't even bother joining the discord to see what the Guild Tag needs (more heals, more support, more Boon etc) and they have the gall to exclaim in Team chat that "UGH TAGLESS COMMANDERS UGH, PUGS NEGLECTED UGH"
    And even better : they don't even ask to join a discord or anything. They just log in, /t "Any tag running" then afk in keeps.

    Jesus christ.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    On my server commis constantly run open tags however people refuse to join discord and dont follow tag/markers in fights which results in them rallying the enemy over and over. I have experienced few commis that just got fed by it and only invite people who are on voice. I understand that not everyone wants to join voice but you are free to make own open tag if you want and don't expect other to make magic happen for you.

    Meh~

  • @Yasai.3549 said:
    And the worst offenders are those who are obviously not part of a Squad, but when whole Squad prepares to stealth bomb, they who are not part of the Squad follows the Stealthed group essentially acting as a marker and giving away the bomb.

    Or that one guy who drops a random field on the stealth gyros...

    Make Banner Warrior for Zergs great again!!!