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Tagless commanding is hurting wvw and servers

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  • displayname.8315displayname.8315 Member ✭✭✭

    Most of these gripes boil down to "we can't do our braindead 1 push bomb without a full stealth bum rush"

    This @$&$ wouldn't cut it when fight guilds were still a thing.

  • Riz.2619Riz.2619 Member

    Everybody is entitled to play the game as they see fit. That means, if the commander wants to go tagless, it's his/her prerogative. If people want to cloud around that group, sadly, it's also within their rights. It's a crappy thing to do...but solidly within their rights. If people want to roam, it's up to them also.

    Honestly as a roamer, I avoid tags like the plague (which they are to me and my playstyle) unless there is a CTA to defend something.
    What I've seen which is worse, is commanders DEMANDING that roamers leave a BL so they can get more people in for their zerg. Not your server pal. There are a few streamers who run PUG commander runs and get really demanding with people who arent going to be on meta builds and in their squads. Well, we don't exist to be your content so you can make money.
    The moral here is, everybody thinks their way of play is the only one that matters. Like it or not, all of it exists.

  • Bristingr.5034Bristingr.5034 Member ✭✭✭

    For TC, it depends on the match up. Some servers literally have tag watchers (still, in 2021). During those match ups, we have to run a private tag.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    As long as their doing stuff on a map I think it's fine. My guild is small and we're basically pugs who keep each other updated on the maps and link up when there's a good fight or something. Sometimes we have to create a tag to fit everyone so we can use Alert Target and other tools but we're not trying to pull a blob. I think people need to use in game tools more, commanders can put the info of what their squad is about with a lit up tag so people can feel the map breathing better and they can ping targets and radar along with voice, and then pugs need to bother to look up stuff and at least be present if they're hanging around in peoples fields so they know to get with it or duck out of the way.

    Solo Pugs kind of need to learn how to tether to a squad at intercept distance to cover downs and run security on support, they'd probably fill their bags faster that way anyway. I don't blame people for not wanting to put up with some personalities though and it should be a given that other people are going to be where the action is so of course people are going to be in the way if you're positioning your core in the most obvious spot.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Join Ruins of Surmia. I usually see commanders beg for players to follow them and take supps to build their sieges.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • GoldenPants.1870GoldenPants.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Stuff like this is why I do not want to tag up, even if I want to try tagging up. >> <<

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    I understand that not everyone wants to join voice but you are free to make own open tag if you want and don't expect other to make magic happen for you.

    ... well tell that to the discord commanders because they - and their fanatic followers - usually dont seem to see it that way.

    When a discord commander tag up its now their border and they need everyone on the border on tag (followed by them openly ridiculing the enemy borderzerg for having everyone on their tag, because of course).

    So no, being free to tag up is often restricted.

    Not really. You're still free to tag up. If you're bothered by someone else telling you to tag down, that's on you when you make it your problem instead of theirs. Pugs will follow the more successful public tag; the one that reads the map better and has a better sense of where the pugs want to move to than the other tag.

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @Cynz.9437 said:

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    On my server commis constantly run open tags however people refuse to join discord and dont follow tag/markers in fights which results in them rallying the enemy over and over. I have experienced few commis that just got fed by it and only invite people who are on voice. I understand that not everyone wants to join voice but you are free to make own open tag if you want and don't expect other to make magic happen for you.

    Example: last night we were fighting another group with a lot of pugs, which usually indicates an open tag, who started out pretty big then progressively got smaller with each engagement as pugs abandoned him. The reason he kept losing fights against us had a lot to do with the pugs who didn't follow him too well and were not running builds for the fights. This led to a discussion on our discord with a few other players who also pugmand sometimes about how when one tags up with pugs like this you have to adjust and play fights differently and not like you have a core group on meta builds that can provide a stable force for pugs to play around. Like, you can't be jumping down from a cliff right in front of another group when half your force is staying up top trying to be "safe". Pugs just don't think they need to cooperate.

    Ultimately I felt for the guy because he wanted to spend his evening reset play time getting meta style "big fights" while also helping out his server. It gets frustrating for such tags which is one of the reasons there are so few of them these days. Not everyone wants to spend their limited game time leading a squad that isn't able to engage in big fights. Winning fights is fun.

  • @acdspydar.8920 said:
    Sorry mayne, I'm going to run tagless/private and here's why:

    • my group is here to have fun, not be your entertainment
    • i, as a commander, am a very rude person with flavorful language
    • everyone has a tag, so it shouldn't be my job to lead that map alone
    • not everyone can put up with endless criticism and constant demands to tag up
    • neither my guild nor myself owe anyone a kitten thing
    • want to raid? Join the guild.

    I'm not the only one who feels this way, so i will say this: stop being entitled and learn to do it yourself. There's plenty of resources and groups available, self included, who are excited to work with new players who want to give WvW their all.

    Close thread pls

    you sound like my kinda guy :) and 100% agree
    Tag up, make friends and EARN a reputation and people will follow instead of having excuses. This is a game and not any other players job to entertain you or provide you with content just get out there and do it

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some of us run private tags cause we just logged on to game with our friends in WvW. I do it so my kids can follow me easier. Trust me, you don't want my tag to be public.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    on the one hand, if u pug that is correct. it gets hard to find content without seeing the tags.

    however, as 20 ppl guildgroup u cannot afford pugs messing up your stealth, giving away your position too early, or rallying the enemy by mindlessly suiciding into them while greeding for killparticipations.

    guilds do closed runs during their guildrun times mainly. and as smaller guilds it simply is better to push into the huge pugclouds, if u - again - don't have a lot of own pugs giving away the direction from where your push will come.

    ideally, there would be people just opentagging beneath the guild. realistically, pugs are extremly stoic and won't follow the opentag but still stick and handicap the guild-tag. therefore it basically is the fault of all the inexperience pugs that guildtags are forced to hide their tags.

    we just don't have that many "players", meaning people who understand the system really. many claim to do, not many can prove this claim tho. there is a lot of people claiming the pugs carry servers, just because they don't see the three hidden tags running around. without these, the enemy guildgroups would just onepush through your pugs, think about that. it's not exactly difficult or hard to farm pugs as coordinated guild, even on small numbers of 15-20. it's just boring and stale, and a lot of (quantity) work, depending on their size.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly, just join the closed tags' guilds and play with them instead of against them. If you're actually good and don't play things which actively hurt your allies (see an above post about perma-chill -> perma alacrity conversions being an issue), nobody will really care so long as you contribute more than you hurt. I play my roaming reaper with [Hate] when I log in and am not even in the guild, nor do I run wells unless we're desperate, and still get the occasional top DPS per fight because I work with them and listen in on Discord. Nobody really cares because generally I'm actively working with the group and have a positive performance metric. I'll just tell Bully to put me in my own squad if I'm playing selfish and other people deserve the spots, and because my personal skill is respected enough and put to good use when we coordinate our engage, I'm a net positive and kept around/always welcome.

    If they're super elitist or a top-end zergbursting group, and nobody else is doing anything, start your own. If you die a lot or don't play/don't want to play a commander class, that's kinda on you. SOMEONE has to.

    Hold no expectations. If you create a tag as a nobody, half the time people won't even join. I've literally gone periods of like an hour and a half straight as the only tag on a queued EBG and still only had like three people join. A lot of pugs are the problem, too. They refuse anything but names they know and constant wins, or they get angry and log out. Nobody wants to command for entitled players like that, and it's why so many people go private.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grand Marshal.4098 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    And the worst offenders are those who are obviously not part of a Squad, but when whole Squad prepares to stealth bomb, they who are not part of the Squad follows the Stealthed group essentially acting as a marker and giving away the bomb.

    Or that one guy who drops a random field on the stealth gyros...

    Seen someone drop shadow refuge on a stealhed grp running to engage before. How well do you think that went lol

  • it's funny how many complain that they can't stealth bomb other groups cuz of pugs lol. All I hear is "I want to be toxic to the other side cuz that's my enjoyment. I like to grief the other side cuz that's what's fun to me."

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    Remember that when two tryhard blobs try to have some pointless fair fight real MVP throw target painters and give some siege support.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:
    All I hear is "I want to be toxic to the other side cuz that's my enjoyment. I like to grief the other side cuz that's what's fun to me."

    That's an ironic comment coming from someone who sends toxic whispers all the time.

  • Valelutra.9128Valelutra.9128 Member ✭✭✭

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:
    it's funny how many complain that they can't stealth bomb other groups cuz of pugs lol. All I hear is "I want to be toxic to the other side cuz that's my enjoyment. I like to grief the other side cuz that's what's fun to me."

    Lol, calling the element of surprise "griefing"

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

    @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    on the one hand, if u pug that is correct. it gets hard to find content without seeing the tags.

    however, as 20 ppl guildgroup u cannot afford pugs messing up your stealth, giving away your position too early, or rallying the enemy by mindlessly suiciding into them while greeding for killparticipations.

    guilds do closed runs during their guildrun times mainly. and as smaller guilds it simply is better to push into the huge pugclouds, if u - again - don't have a lot of own pugs giving away the direction from where your push will come.

    ideally, there would be people just opentagging beneath the guild. realistically, pugs are extremly stoic and won't follow the opentag but still stick and handicap the guild-tag. therefore it basically is the fault of all the inexperience pugs that guildtags are forced to hide their tags.

    we just don't have that many "players", meaning people who understand the system really. many claim to do, not many can prove this claim tho. there is a lot of people claiming the pugs carry servers, just because they don't see the three hidden tags running around. without these, the enemy guildgroups would just onepush through your pugs, think about that. it's not exactly difficult or hard to farm pugs as coordinated guild, even on small numbers of 15-20. it's just boring and stale, and a lot of (quantity) work, depending on their size.

    That all depends on the server. Even before we were the link our pugs knew what to do and would have to give up a good spot for a guild group to wipe in. I've been linked to a server though where I've seen pugs mostly have no clue or awareness of their own side and will mess up fields. Guild groups need to read the room and see if there's already something good going on in a spot, or stop complaining about their do or die stealth attempts getting stepped on. If they're tagless and don't tell anyone on the map in that area what they're trying to do then they're just in the way and depending on the server, would have done better to leave it to the pugs and try for a split attempt.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • Our guild runs hidden tag majority of the time because it's more enjoyable for us. shrugs There are players who target our driver and stay with our group which is fine and some have become a staple in our runs whether in the guild or not. Open tags just aren't that fun as an organized group, because you're trading consistent known behavior that's been established for close to a decade now from your party/squad, for inconsistent behavior that can at times be outright detrimental and/or incompatible with the way we want to run.

    It's not so much other people's skills are 'trash' as it is we want to play the game in a certain manner surrounded by like-minded fellows that can vibe with it and us. That's more or less it.

    Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion.
    Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 not sure if it really depends on the server. i have by now contacts into several servers, and they basically report the same issues from everywhere. pugclouds are extremly similar everywhere. and u can as well tell by how other servers play, that they might have similar issues.

    u may be correct that pug quality varies, but only very few times the pugs don't mix up really. mostly, its pugs from two different servers, and not a lot of pugs always bandwagon to the t1 server. those bandwagon pugs however surely are the "better" ones, but also a elemental part of the problem. they are still usually big time unable to coordinate with guilds, which is why t1 is considered one of the worst tiers (and bc u are basically stuck there. with active ppters, no way u can drop, no matter how hard u try)

    they whole wvw system would just need overhauls., mechanical ones. the system is bad and that's leading to this kind of problem first hand.

    like, if there'd be Wvw-guilds as set guild "usage", Wvw-guilds alliances-style forming matchupcores instead of the toxic link-tier system, then they coulda add also "guildlead XY is on orange border" and the icon could be adapted towards [hidden, shown-closed, opentag, openvoice] for registered Wvw-guilds amongst that server.

  • @Valelutra.9128 said:

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:
    it's funny how many complain that they can't stealth bomb other groups cuz of pugs lol. All I hear is "I want to be toxic to the other side cuz that's my enjoyment. I like to grief the other side cuz that's what's fun to me."

    Lol, calling the element of surprise "griefing"

    "surprise" yeah call it what you want. what it really is, is (i cant say what it is ill get banned) but yeah if thats how you have to fight then you .........

  • charrboiledeggs.8164charrboiledeggs.8164 Member ✭✭
    edited April 10, 2021

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @charrboiledeggs.8164 said:
    All I hear is "I want to be toxic to the other side cuz that's my enjoyment. I like to grief the other side cuz that's what's fun to me."

    That's an ironic comment coming from someone who sends toxic whispers all the time.

    I tend to lack the ability to care.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    @kash.9213 not sure if it really depends on the server. i have by now contacts into several servers, and they basically report the same issues from everywhere. pugclouds are extremly similar everywhere. and u can as well tell by how other servers play, that they might have similar issues.

    u may be correct that pug quality varies, but only very few times the pugs don't mix up really. mostly, its pugs from two different servers, and not a lot of pugs always bandwagon to the t1 server. those bandwagon pugs however surely are the "better" ones, but also a elemental part of the problem. they are still usually big time unable to coordinate with guilds, which is why t1 is considered one of the worst tiers (and bc u are basically stuck there. with active ppters, no way u can drop, no matter how hard u try)

    they whole wvw system would just need overhauls., mechanical ones. the system is bad and that's leading to this kind of problem first hand.

    like, if there'd be Wvw-guilds as set guild "usage", Wvw-guilds alliances-style forming matchupcores instead of the toxic link-tier system, then they coulda add also "guildlead XY is on orange border" and the icon could be adapted towards [hidden, shown-closed, opentag, openvoice] for registered Wvw-guilds amongst that server.

    I would like targeting to stay group only but I'd like Alert Target and mini map pinging within some radius to alert all friendlies, maybe just quicker and quieter alerts. I'd join squad and stuff but I'm not going to stay tight on tag and I don't want to be a distracting dot. I'd definitely join an open squad that just called out stuff while they do their own thing, I usually respond to stuff.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @Nocturnal Lunacy.8563 said:
    Going tagless cuz you "think" pugs aren't good enuf to join your squad. What makes you so perfect that you think you have the right to judge somebody else in a game that carries the player? New players are turned off or xfer to other servers cuz all the commanders won't allow them to follow. I rarely see a tag on my server. I won't join the squad but when my server is lacking in population cuz the commanders won't let them join.

    I have every right to judge you however I please and even say that you're "not good enuf", be it game or real life. If you can't deal with it, it's not my problem.
    New players should ask questions about the game mode and stuff, that's the first thing they should do, but they go full yolo and do whatever and wonder why people don't want them in WvW.
    People go tagless, because they want to play together with very few people or specific people, they don't want to deal with some random abc screwing their tactics.
    Beside that, you could be still "useful" to the server and do something like scouting or killing enemy dollies or killing enemy players that try to touch your stuff.
    You people are so lazy these days it's really annoying, just sit behind walls and wait for tag whole day, while your t3 corner gets taken by 10ppl and you have like 30 ppl afking...
    Tag is not everything.