Get Rid of Glicko PvP Matchmaking System and Change Rating Gain/Loss — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Get Rid of Glicko PvP Matchmaking System and Change Rating Gain/Loss

memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

For the few of us who are still playing PvP (because people are leaving the game mode in droves - just look at the NA leaderboard.... no one above 1900 or even 1800 at this point), ArenaNet seriously needs to adjust the rating gain/loss from winning/losing PvP ranked matches. So many of us are frustrated and get -21 for losing games that cannot be carried and yet our 200 lower rated teammates only lose 8 rating points. It really should be even across the whole team - that way, the better players will win more games and go up over time, whereas the weaker players will continue to lose themselves into their proper division. It's the best you can do with such a low population that 6 minute ranked queues are normal and you still end up with outmatched games. :/

Comments

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've been saying it for awhile now:

    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    This creates two separate fish tanks. The first is unranked, where the reward grinders can grind their rewards. The second is the hardcore pvp player base tank, where we compete in ATs where rating/badges would make sense again.

    Right now so many problem exists because there are 3 fish tanks, where unranked draws in random noob, AT draws in hardcore player base, but then ranked mode draws in both all demographics, which even though it sounds good on paper, ends up just being a complete kitten show and cesspool of cheating, making the rating/badge mean nothing.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    I due queued with my gold 1 friend at 4am
    queued into a guy from top 5 and his duo buddy on alt, my friend lost 20, I lost 35.
    FeelsOkayMan xd
    system is kitten and abused from the start

    And now imagine you would get -20 and those two would get +20 instead of +5 or whatever they got. Imagine how skewed the leaderboard would be, if they could just farm you and your lower rated friend.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Everyone knows the issues with the matchmaking and GLICKO, but the suggestion from the OP is far from a solution and would worsen the whole situation. It would help with nothing but subjective frustration, because people don't understand what GLICKO does, what the matchmaker does, and neither do they understand its uses. That makes 90% of the suggestions on this topic pointless.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    I due queued with my gold 1 friend at 4am
    queued into a guy from top 5 and his duo buddy on alt, my friend lost 20, I lost 35.
    FeelsOkayMan xd
    system is kitten and abused from the start

    And now imagine you would get -20 and those two would get +20 instead of +5 or whatever they got. Imagine how skewed the leaderboard would be, if they could just farm you and your lower rated friend.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Everyone knows the issues with the matchmaking and GLICKO, but the suggestion from the OP is far from a solution and would worsen the whole situation. It would help with nothing but subjective frustration, because people don't understand what GLICKO does, what the matchmaker does, and neither do they understand its uses. That makes 90% of the suggestions on this topic pointless.

    what I ment to say is that it already promotes farming low ranked players during off hours.
    bunch of top tier players duoQ, often on an alts to have lower rating, in the middle of the night AND they make sure to not queue into other good players.
    I often play at night due to my work and I see plenty of shifty kitten going on, kitten. even when I was g3 and queued with silver friend we still ran into plat 3 players from time to time. And despite that its -20/25 per game since LUL middle of the night game.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    I due queued with my gold 1 friend at 4am
    queued into a guy from top 5 and his duo buddy on alt, my friend lost 20, I lost 35.
    FeelsOkayMan xd
    system is kitten and abused from the start

    And now imagine you would get -20 and those two would get +20 instead of +5 or whatever they got. Imagine how skewed the leaderboard would be, if they could just farm you and your lower rated friend.

    I don't know what you are trying to say. Everyone knows the issues with the matchmaking and GLICKO, but the suggestion from the OP is far from a solution and would worsen the whole situation. It would help with nothing but subjective frustration, because people don't understand what GLICKO does, what the matchmaker does, and neither do they understand its uses. That makes 90% of the suggestions on this topic pointless.

    what I ment to say is that it already promotes farming low ranked players during off hours.
    bunch of top tier players duoQ, often on an alts to have lower rating, in the middle of the night AND they make sure to not queue into other good players.
    I often play at night due to my work and I see plenty of shifty kitten going on, kitten. even when I was g3 and queued with silver friend we still ran into plat 3 players from time to time. And despite that its -20/25 per game since LUL middle of the night game.

    Of course it does. But they only get +5ish points or even less. That is what GLICKO does and that is a very good thing. When they got +20, that farming would increase exponentially. Not the very few games they lose, they get -35 points or so, which (more or less) evens up.

    You are describing an issue with duoQ, especially when teaming up with different ratings. They did a very hard decision there, making that very unviable. That is a matchmaker-issue though - nothing to do with GLICKO.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @memausz.7264 said:
    For the few of us who are still playing PvP (because people are leaving the game mode in droves - just look at the NA leaderboard.... no one above 1900 or even 1800 at this point), ArenaNet seriously needs to adjust the rating gain/loss from winning/losing PvP ranked matches. So many of us are frustrated and get -21 for losing games that cannot be carried and yet our 200 lower rated teammates only lose 8 rating points. It really should be even across the whole team - that way, the better players will win more games and go up over time, whereas the weaker players will continue to lose themselves into their proper division. It's the best you can do with such a low population that 6 minute ranked queues are normal and you still end up with outmatched games. :/

    Glicko might be fine if they locked in build/character at queue time. Then the algorithm can accurately kitten a player's capability and match them accordingly. There's so much meta around influencing outcomes based on swaps and build modifications, and then you add bots and other forms of manipulation to the mix it's crazy. The game mode would be fine if the matchmaker was useful. I might still play it.

  • Master Ketsu.4569Master Ketsu.4569 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The actual rating algorithm in matchmaking used isn't that bad. The problem lies in how it handles Duo Q / Party Q, failing to take many factors into account.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 1, 2021

    Those poor gold 2 players don't want to be in that match as much as you do, making 'em lose 20 pnts would be very discouraging
    Unlike you saying they're not at wrong rating, they're in the wrong match rather.

    Low population is the source of most problems

    But duo q is a beast it self

    many times i see probably the only 2 1700+ players online playing together instead of fighting each other
    it also makes way easier to get a 3rd guy to help you win a match, but he's in the other team
    least played class, mesmer prolly duo q both as a mesmer as their solo q buddy, he's "magically" mirrored into the other team and your wintrade is done.

    I'd be much more willing to play more pvp if i didnt have to queue dodge plat 2+ more duos so often, sometimes i'm like 1480 rating fighting this duos and I get the feeling i'm the highest rating in my team, feelsbad.

    But duo q gatekeep is real, a lot of ppl wouldnt be able to exploit their way to top 50, I've seen ppl that couldnt reach plat 1 solo, but could duo their way to plat 2 confortably

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:

    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    This creates two separate fish tanks. The first is unranked, where the reward grinders can grind their rewards. The second is the hardcore pvp player base tank, where we compete in ATs where rating/badges would make sense again.

    Right now so many problem exists because there are 3 fish tanks, where unranked draws in random noob, AT draws in hardcore player base, but then ranked mode draws in both all demographics, which even though it sounds good on paper, ends up just being a complete kitten show and cesspool of cheating, making the rating/badge mean nothing.

    I dont like this band-aid fix suggestion, they have to ban the kitten bots not moving rewards from here to there.

    Second suggeation is kinda ok, I'd say tie titles to ATs, they are the reason ppl do all the kitten they do be high as possible in leaderboards

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khalisto.5780 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:

    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    This creates two separate fish tanks. The first is unranked, where the reward grinders can grind their rewards. The second is the hardcore pvp player base tank, where we compete in ATs where rating/badges would make sense again.

    Right now so many problem exists because there are 3 fish tanks, where unranked draws in random noob, AT draws in hardcore player base, but then ranked mode draws in both all demographics, which even though it sounds good on paper, ends up just being a complete kitten show and cesspool of cheating, making the rating/badge mean nothing.

    I dont like this band-aid fix suggestion, they have to ban the kitten bots not moving rewards from here to there.

    Second suggeation is kinda ok, I'd say tie titles to ATs, they are the reason ppl do all the kitten they do be high as possible in leaderboards

    Band-aid?

    My good dude, rating/badge tied to 5man would solve most problems concerning match manipulation. And then I assure you no one would care to match manipulate or throw in unranked for rewards. They do that stuff for clout, not for gold rewards. It is enabled due to solo/duo only. Bots stands to gain much much more from farming something like Silverwastes or Drizzlewood rather than pvp matches. The bots are in ranked for reasons other than gold grind.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Khalisto.5780 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:

    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    This creates two separate fish tanks. The first is unranked, where the reward grinders can grind their rewards. The second is the hardcore pvp player base tank, where we compete in ATs where rating/badges would make sense again.

    Right now so many problem exists because there are 3 fish tanks, where unranked draws in random noob, AT draws in hardcore player base, but then ranked mode draws in both all demographics, which even though it sounds good on paper, ends up just being a complete kitten show and cesspool of cheating, making the rating/badge mean nothing.

    I dont like this band-aid fix suggestion, they have to ban the kitten bots not moving rewards from here to there.

    Second suggeation is kinda ok, I'd say tie titles to ATs, they are the reason ppl do all the kitten they do be high as possible in leaderboards

    Band-aid?

    My good dude, rating/badge tied to 5man would solve most problems concerning match manipulation. And then I assure you no one would care to match manipulate or throw in unranked for rewards. They do that stuff for clout, not for gold rewards. It is enabled due to solo/duo only. Bots stands to gain much much more from farming something like Silverwastes or Drizzlewood rather than pvp matches. The bots are in ranked for reasons other than gold grind.

    bots are in pvp cuz its easy to program, all you gotta do is tell the bot to go to X location and die there repeatedly, meanwhile in PVE bot actually has to move around do events, and even then it has to join maps that have ongoing metas, too much work

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    1. I am all for putting some more, maybe even the same rewards into unranked to draw away some bots. I'd reduce it and see if the bot problem changes first.
    2. Yes, more options for teams should be implemented. Swiss tournaments were not the solution.
    3. But I don't get your problem with the current ranked system. If you have a teamQ option. Why not let all the casuals compete as well - if there is no more duoQ, there would also be significantly less issues with matchmaking.

    Either change ATs to be more encouraging for more regular play or introduce a full ranked teamQ. Leave ranked as it is apart from soloQ only. Separate the rankings, maybe put in different titles and spread some random rewards. Also give unranked more rewards trying to draw away bots.

    (I very much doubt the rating of a full teamQ would mean more than in the current ranked system, but I don't really care and would like to see how it turned out. It just sounds pretty chauvinistic.)

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    You know that a lot of people doing this already like we saw in the last season with the 29:0 on the leader board.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    Thats the problem mate, i dont want to stay hours in LFG as in WoW, and WoW has much bigger player base and you still have more hours in LFG than actually playing pvp. YOu have ATs at the moment so you can have your "true" competitive experience there, no need to ruin rated pvp, for those of us which are playing more casually (which i believe is much more ppl than the high end AT players).

    TeamQ only, has a lot of problems of its own, i can give couple of examples if you want:
    1. People will mostly search people with higher rating than them in LFG and shunt people with lower rating,
    2. People will accept you in group only if you play meta build or comp specific build and reject you if you dont,
    3. People will leave after 1 lost match, so you will have to again spend time in LFG in order to replace.

    All of this problems are seen in WoW (which i repeat has much bigger player base) and people are leaving because of it, From the last report which i have seen 42% of the WoW player base stop playing (just in about 2 month period) and very big part of that is because of the pvp and LFG related issues.

    Last month of WoW playing i spended around 100 hours in the game and 60-70 hours were just waiting in LFG searching for teammates , i dont want to experience that anymore, thats why most of the WoW PvP community are asking for soloQ from years, specially the new and casual people , because they are suffering the most from teamQ only system, so i suggest lets learn from other game's mistakes instead of doing the same mistakes which are did there, which would lead to even worse results in pvp participation.

    From what is seen in WoW easily can be concluded that teamQ system only ,work good only for hard core players and it is very punishing from casual and new players, thats why i am strongly against removing soloQ from ranked or making ranked games only at specific hours. About the rewards in ranked as i said i prefer to be able to make gold in ranked pvp, but if they are removed that wont stop me from playing pvp since thats the content which i enjoy the most.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is the best, just from what i have seen teamQ only system is much MUCH worse.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    You know that a lot of people doing this already like we saw in the last season with the 29:0 on the leader board.

    They ended up 69 (nice) to 1. :wink: And of course it already happens. But now imagine they had achieved a rating of 3195 with this without ever playing any real competitive match, just dodging other teams and playing at night.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    i think this might work if there could be multiple ATs running simultaneously and they started every hour. reduce max teams to 16 (for some reason its 100). what would really get people interested and entice back our lost population is some real money on the line. nothing crazy maybe something like $50 per player for 1st place ($25 for 2nd, $10 for third), but only do this for one AT 3 times per day.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    1. Remove rewards from ranked and put them into unranked.
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.

    i think this might work if there could be multiple ATs running simultaneously and they started every hour. reduce max teams to 16 (for some reason its 100). what would really get people interested and entice back our lost population is some real money on the line. nothing crazy maybe something like $50 per player for 1st place ($25 for 2nd, $10 for third), but only do this for one AT 3 times per day.

    It would be nice if we had ATs every hour with division cap, if you win that AT you'd instanlty go up a division, farming legendary amulet i found out it was very discouraging if your level of skill is less than g3, after playing 2 or 3 ATs in a all welcome party and win less than 1 game per AT.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    Thats the problem mate, i dont want to stay hours in LFG as in WoW, and WoW has much bigger player base and you still have more hours in LFG than actually playing pvp. YOu have ATs at the moment so you can have your "true" competitive experience there, no need to ruin rated pvp, for those of us which are playing more casually (which i believe is much more ppl than the high end AT players).

    You said you are playing casually so you probably aren't deep enough into the community to recognize how much match manipulation & botting is happening in the ranked mode solo/duo only. If you had recognized it, you'd be agreeing with me once you realized solid 5 man queues full of humans is the only way to stop garbage match making.

    TeamQ only, has a lot of problems of its own, i can give couple of examples if you want:
    1. People will mostly search people with higher rating than them in LFG and shunt people with lower rating,
    2. People will accept you in group only if you play meta build or comp specific build and reject you if you dont,
    3. People will leave after 1 lost match, so you will have to again spend time in LFG in order to replace.

    Looks like you don't run ATs often, if you ever have at all. Nothing you've said here is even remotely true.

    1. No one searches higher rating than them in LFG because LFG groups are labeled things like "Plat +" and everyone in the Plat + community knows each other, so if people join who are not Plat +, they get kicked. If people join who you don't know, you badge check. Same goes for w/e LFG you post. It's actually rather easy to form a team for AT in the LFG. If you had ever tried it even once, you'd already know this.
    2. No one boots anyone out based on "meta builds" they boot people out based on the merit of your personal reputation and/or current rating.
    3. People don't leave after 1 loss. In all the time I've spent in ATs, which is a lot of time at this point, I've seen that happen maybe twice. Maybe it's a problem for "Anyone Join Groups", but groups who are even Gold + do not have this problem. People at Gold + levels who join an AT know what they're getting themselves into beforehand. They are joining not for big rewards but rather for good games, and they have an open willingness to get trashed by Plat + teams because they want to learn and get better. <- This is the difference between yolo/duo gamble dice throw ranked reward casual play, and competitive AT team play. And might I add HOW MUCH LOWER the toxicity is in AT play for this very reason.

    All of this problems are seen in WoW (which i repeat has much bigger player base) and people are leaving because of it, From the last report which i have seen 42% of the WoW player base stop playing (just in about 2 month period) and very big part of that is because of the pvp and LFG related issues.

    Stop comparing this to WoW. What's going on here is nothing like WoW. It really isn't.

    Last month of WoW playing i spended around 100 hours in the game and 60-70 hours were just waiting in LFG searching for teammates , i dont want to experience that anymore, thats why most of the WoW PvP community are asking for soloQ from years, specially the new and casual people , because they are suffering the most from teamQ only system, so i suggest lets learn from other game's mistakes instead of doing the same mistakes which are did there, which would lead to even worse results in pvp participation.

    You should actually try LFGing an AT team in GW2 instead of assumin everything is like WoW. You'd see that the LFG AT team will fill up usually within about 2 or 3 minutes with a Gold + listing. You go Plat + and it starts turning into 10+ minute organization through LFG. You go Plat 2 + and then it begins turning into a 20+ minute organize sometimes requiring personal invites to fill the roster.

    I also think it's hilarious that you say "we should learn from other games" yet you literally said "WoW's population is much higher. WoW does not have solo queue pvp." Did it ever occur to you that the reason why GW2's population was so low is because the conversion to solo/duo drove people off with the problems it created? If you had been an avid player all of these years and had somewhere near 20,000 games played, you'd already recognize this fact. Many players up and left GW2 pvp when they realized how much math manipulation solo/duo ranked brought into the game.

    If you don't know what smurfing, synching, throwing, multi box botting, win trading is, you have no idea what's going on my man. The leaderboards are ruined in GW2 because of all this. The solo queue mode you love so dearly as a casual player is almost entirely responsible for enabling these problems. If you don't understand why, well that's a topic for a different thread.

    From what is seen in WoW easily can be concluded that teamQ system only ,work good only for hard core players and it is very punishing from casual and new players, thats why i am strongly against removing soloQ from ranked or making ranked games only at specific hours. About the rewards in ranked as i said i prefer to be able to make gold in ranked pvp, but if they are removed that wont stop me from playing pvp since thats the content which i enjoy the most.

    And that's why I said that the hardcore players can go do their 5 man in ATs, and then everyone else can go to Unranked with Ranked rewards for their mixed queue system. You aren't understanding that the suggestion I propose would help players like yourself. It would put the try hards in a different fish tank where they are trying to compete for clout of rating and badges and MAT wins. Everyone else can have fun making their gold and getting pips for shards and w/e in Unranked that has Ranked rewards shuffled to it.

    Look man, it sounds like you want to compete for rating which is why you argued against me to begin with. But honestly, if you don't want that rating enough to take 3 minutes form a team through an LFG to help support the purpose of the rating actually reflecting real player skill in a 5 man environment rather than a bunch of dice throw gambling in yolo/duo, maybe you shouldn't be worried about rating at all. Because the rest of us want a system that means something again, where matches are clean.

    Solo queue is casual man. Rating has no place in a casual environment full of bots and synch queue match manipulation. Sorry but it doesn't.

    Rating/Badge system needs to be slid over to AT monthly seasons that begin and end with MAT. Ranked rewards can be slid over to Unranked.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is the best, just from what i have seen teamQ only system is much MUCH worse.

    You haven't seen anything. You keep referencing WoW and saying things that if you had ever played a 5 man team even once, you'd know weren't true. I mean, say what you want man. Just stop making assumptions about what's going on in GW2 based off of WoW. These are two very different lists of problems.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Megametzler.5729 said:

    @Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

    @Megametzler.5729 said:
    That will promote farming lower rated players during off-hours and make the leaderboard significantly less accurate.

    You know that a lot of people doing this already like we saw in the last season with the 29:0 on the leader board.

    They ended up 69 (nice) to 1. :wink: And of course it already happens. But now imagine they had achieved a rating of 3195 with this without ever playing any real competitive match, just dodging other teams and playing at night.

    This is another good supporting point to what I was saying.

    These player who do this could not queue dodge other good teams who aren't afraid to fight them in an AT. No more easy dodging the players who threaten you. This is how it should be.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    Thats the problem mate, i dont want to stay hours in LFG as in WoW, and WoW has much bigger player base and you still have more hours in LFG than actually playing pvp. YOu have ATs at the moment so you can have your "true" competitive experience there, no need to ruin rated pvp, for those of us which are playing more casually (which i believe is much more ppl than the high end AT players).

    You said you are playing casually so you probably aren't deep enough into the community to recognize how much match manipulation & botting is happening in the ranked mode solo/duo only. If you had recognized it, you'd be agreeing with me once you realized solid 5 man queues full of humans is the only way to stop garbage match making.

    TeamQ only, has a lot of problems of its own, i can give couple of examples if you want:
    1. People will mostly search people with higher rating than them in LFG and shunt people with lower rating,
    2. People will accept you in group only if you play meta build or comp specific build and reject you if you dont,
    3. People will leave after 1 lost match, so you will have to again spend time in LFG in order to replace.

    Looks like you don't run ATs often, if you ever have at all. Nothing you've said here is even remotely true.

    1. No one searches higher rating than them in LFG because LFG groups are labeled things like "Plat +" and everyone in the Plat + community knows each other, so if people join who are not Plat +, they get kicked. If people join who you don't know, you badge check. Same goes for w/e LFG you post. It's actually rather easy to form a team for AT in the LFG. If you had ever tried it even once, you'd already know this.
    2. No one boots anyone out based on "meta builds" they boot people out based on the merit of your personal reputation and/or current rating.
    3. People don't leave after 1 loss. In all the time I've spent in ATs, which is a lot of time at this point, I've seen that happen maybe twice. Maybe it's a problem for "Anyone Join Groups", but groups who are even Gold + do not have this problem. People at Gold + levels who join an AT know what they're getting themselves into beforehand. They are joining not for big rewards but rather for good games, and they have an open willingness to get trashed by Plat + teams because they want to learn and get better. <- This is the difference between yolo/duo gamble dice throw ranked reward casual play, and competitive AT team play. And might I add HOW MUCH LOWER the toxicity is in AT play for this very reason.

    All of this problems are seen in WoW (which i repeat has much bigger player base) and people are leaving because of it, From the last report which i have seen 42% of the WoW player base stop playing (just in about 2 month period) and very big part of that is because of the pvp and LFG related issues.

    Stop comparing this to WoW. What's going on here is nothing like WoW. It really isn't.

    Last month of WoW playing i spended around 100 hours in the game and 60-70 hours were just waiting in LFG searching for teammates , i dont want to experience that anymore, thats why most of the WoW PvP community are asking for soloQ from years, specially the new and casual people , because they are suffering the most from teamQ only system, so i suggest lets learn from other game's mistakes instead of doing the same mistakes which are did there, which would lead to even worse results in pvp participation.

    You should actually try LFGing an AT team in GW2 instead of assumin everything is like WoW. You'd see that the LFG AT team will fill up usually within about 2 or 3 minutes with a Gold + listing. You go Plat + and it starts turning into 10+ minute organization through LFG. You go Plat 2 + and then it begins turning into a 20+ minute organize sometimes requiring personal invites to fill the roster.

    I also think it's hilarious that you say "we should learn from other games" yet you literally said "WoW's population is much higher. WoW does not have solo queue pvp." Did it ever occur to you that the reason why GW2's population was so low is because the conversion to solo/duo drove people off with the problems it created? If you had been an avid player all of these years and had somewhere near 20,000 games played, you'd already recognize this fact. Many players up and left GW2 pvp when they realized how much math manipulation solo/duo ranked brought into the game.

    If you don't know what smurfing, synching, throwing, multi box botting, win trading is, you have no idea what's going on my man. The leaderboards are ruined in GW2 because of all this. The solo queue mode you love so dearly as a casual player is almost entirely responsible for enabling these problems. If you don't understand why, well that's a topic for a different thread.

    From what is seen in WoW easily can be concluded that teamQ system only ,work good only for hard core players and it is very punishing from casual and new players, thats why i am strongly against removing soloQ from ranked or making ranked games only at specific hours. About the rewards in ranked as i said i prefer to be able to make gold in ranked pvp, but if they are removed that wont stop me from playing pvp since thats the content which i enjoy the most.

    And that's why I said that the hardcore players can go do their 5 man in ATs, and then everyone else can go to Unranked with Ranked rewards for their mixed queue system. You aren't understanding that the suggestion I propose would help players like yourself. It would put the try hards in a different fish tank where they are trying to compete for clout of rating and badges and MAT wins. Everyone else can have fun making their gold and getting pips for shards and w/e in Unranked that has Ranked rewards shuffled to it.

    Look man, it sounds like you want to compete for rating which is why you argued against me to begin with. But honestly, if you don't want that rating enough to take 3 minutes form a team through an LFG to help support the purpose of the rating actually reflecting real player skill in a 5 man environment rather than a bunch of dice throw gambling in yolo/duo, maybe you shouldn't be worried about rating at all. Because the rest of us want a system that means something again, where matches are clean.

    Solo queue is casual man. Rating has no place in a casual environment full of bots and synch queue match manipulation. Sorry but it doesn't.

    Rating/Badge system needs to be slid over to AT monthly seasons that begin and end with MAT. Ranked rewards can be slid over to Unranked.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is the best, just from what i have seen teamQ only system is much MUCH worse.

    You haven't seen anything. You keep referencing WoW and saying things that if you had ever played a 5 man team even once, you'd know weren't true. I mean, say what you want man. Just stop making assumptions about what's going on in GW2 based off of WoW. These are two very different lists of problems.

    I dont have time atm to reponce to everything , but i will a bit later, but i want to mention that personal attacks as " you dont know nothing" do not back up your point but only show that you dont like people disagreing with you, if you cannot back up your point with facts or logic dont even try.

    I will respond to everything a bit later, but lets keep the conversation constructive.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    Thats the problem mate, i dont want to stay hours in LFG as in WoW, and WoW has much bigger player base and you still have more hours in LFG than actually playing pvp. YOu have ATs at the moment so you can have your "true" competitive experience there, no need to ruin rated pvp, for those of us which are playing more casually (which i believe is much more ppl than the high end AT players).

    You said you are playing casually so you probably aren't deep enough into the community to recognize how much match manipulation & botting is happening in the ranked mode solo/duo only. If you had recognized it, you'd be agreeing with me once you realized solid 5 man queues full of humans is the only way to stop garbage match making.

    TeamQ only, has a lot of problems of its own, i can give couple of examples if you want:
    1. People will mostly search people with higher rating than them in LFG and shunt people with lower rating,
    2. People will accept you in group only if you play meta build or comp specific build and reject you if you dont,
    3. People will leave after 1 lost match, so you will have to again spend time in LFG in order to replace.

    Looks like you don't run ATs often, if you ever have at all. Nothing you've said here is even remotely true.

    1. No one searches higher rating than them in LFG because LFG groups are labeled things like "Plat +" and everyone in the Plat + community knows each other, so if people join who are not Plat +, they get kicked. If people join who you don't know, you badge check. Same goes for w/e LFG you post. It's actually rather easy to form a team for AT in the LFG. If you had ever tried it even once, you'd already know this.
    2. No one boots anyone out based on "meta builds" they boot people out based on the merit of your personal reputation and/or current rating.
    3. People don't leave after 1 loss. In all the time I've spent in ATs, which is a lot of time at this point, I've seen that happen maybe twice. Maybe it's a problem for "Anyone Join Groups", but groups who are even Gold + do not have this problem. People at Gold + levels who join an AT know what they're getting themselves into beforehand. They are joining not for big rewards but rather for good games, and they have an open willingness to get trashed by Plat + teams because they want to learn and get better. <- This is the difference between yolo/duo gamble dice throw ranked reward casual play, and competitive AT team play. And might I add HOW MUCH LOWER the toxicity is in AT play for this very reason.

    All of this problems are seen in WoW (which i repeat has much bigger player base) and people are leaving because of it, From the last report which i have seen 42% of the WoW player base stop playing (just in about 2 month period) and very big part of that is because of the pvp and LFG related issues.

    Stop comparing this to WoW. What's going on here is nothing like WoW. It really isn't.

    Last month of WoW playing i spended around 100 hours in the game and 60-70 hours were just waiting in LFG searching for teammates , i dont want to experience that anymore, thats why most of the WoW PvP community are asking for soloQ from years, specially the new and casual people , because they are suffering the most from teamQ only system, so i suggest lets learn from other game's mistakes instead of doing the same mistakes which are did there, which would lead to even worse results in pvp participation.

    You should actually try LFGing an AT team in GW2 instead of assumin everything is like WoW. You'd see that the LFG AT team will fill up usually within about 2 or 3 minutes with a Gold + listing. You go Plat + and it starts turning into 10+ minute organization through LFG. You go Plat 2 + and then it begins turning into a 20+ minute organize sometimes requiring personal invites to fill the roster.

    I also think it's hilarious that you say "we should learn from other games" yet you literally said "WoW's population is much higher. WoW does not have solo queue pvp." Did it ever occur to you that the reason why GW2's population was so low is because the conversion to solo/duo drove people off with the problems it created? If you had been an avid player all of these years and had somewhere near 20,000 games played, you'd already recognize this fact. Many players up and left GW2 pvp when they realized how much math manipulation solo/duo ranked brought into the game.

    If you don't know what smurfing, synching, throwing, multi box botting, win trading is, you have no idea what's going on my man. The leaderboards are ruined in GW2 because of all this. The solo queue mode you love so dearly as a casual player is almost entirely responsible for enabling these problems. If you don't understand why, well that's a topic for a different thread.

    From what is seen in WoW easily can be concluded that teamQ system only ,work good only for hard core players and it is very punishing from casual and new players, thats why i am strongly against removing soloQ from ranked or making ranked games only at specific hours. About the rewards in ranked as i said i prefer to be able to make gold in ranked pvp, but if they are removed that wont stop me from playing pvp since thats the content which i enjoy the most.

    And that's why I said that the hardcore players can go do their 5 man in ATs, and then everyone else can go to Unranked with Ranked rewards for their mixed queue system. You aren't understanding that the suggestion I propose would help players like yourself. It would put the try hards in a different fish tank where they are trying to compete for clout of rating and badges and MAT wins. Everyone else can have fun making their gold and getting pips for shards and w/e in Unranked that has Ranked rewards shuffled to it.

    Look man, it sounds like you want to compete for rating which is why you argued against me to begin with. But honestly, if you don't want that rating enough to take 3 minutes form a team through an LFG to help support the purpose of the rating actually reflecting real player skill in a 5 man environment rather than a bunch of dice throw gambling in yolo/duo, maybe you shouldn't be worried about rating at all. Because the rest of us want a system that means something again, where matches are clean.

    Solo queue is casual man. Rating has no place in a casual environment full of bots and synch queue match manipulation. Sorry but it doesn't.

    Rating/Badge system needs to be slid over to AT monthly seasons that begin and end with MAT. Ranked rewards can be slid over to Unranked.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is the best, just from what i have seen teamQ only system is much MUCH worse.

    You haven't seen anything. You keep referencing WoW and saying things that if you had ever played a 5 man team even once, you'd know weren't true. I mean, say what you want man. Just stop making assumptions about what's going on in GW2 based off of WoW. These are two very different lists of problems.

    I dont have time atm to reponce to everything , but i will a bit later, but i want to mention that personal attacks as " you dont know nothing" do not back up your point but only show that you dont like people disagreing with you, if you cannot back up your point with facts or logic dont even try.

    I will respond to everything a bit later, but lets keep the conversation constructive.

    I simply pointed out things you claim that are wrong. It's not an attack if you're just being corrected on things that everyone else knows is true.

    Look man, no one criticizes this game more than the guys in the pvp subforum, we get it. But a lot of what you are saying is just not accurate. It seems you're creating a hypothesis on GW2 based on your experience with WoW. Literally anyone who runs an AT or two every couple of days can see this in your post.

    Arguing with me here will not be constructive to anything other than some itch you have to do it. So this will be my last post to you.

    Oh and one more thing. I did not say "You don't know nothing". I said "You haven't seen anything" . <- Consider the difference in emotional inflection between these two catch phrases, and that maybe you are seeing what you want to see and not necessarily what something actually is. What you did here is very similar to you arguing with me about the practicalities of how the AT community works, as if you had these facts that you KNEW, but in reality it is quite clear that you lack experience & immersion time participating in organized team play in GW2, which you pretty much stated this yourself in your own response. And you know what? That's perfectly fine. Just don't argue facts about something like that from the sheer standpoint WoW hypothesis only. literally everything you've come at me with has seriously been a hypothetical comparison to WoW. I mean.. yeah alright, w/e.

    Do what you want man.

  • razaelll.8324razaelll.8324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @razaelll.8324 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    I've been saying it for awhile now:
    2. Tie rating/badge system to AT seasons that begin and end with monthly AT.
    .

    Why rating should go to ATs, as far as i know ATs are running only at specific hours and also you cannot soloQ for them, i am against that , becuase forcing people to be at the game at specific hour in order to compete for rating is not good idea in my opinion. Also i prefer to have the soloQ option, forced to make a team everytime when i want to do ranked is not very healthy for the game specially for new people, as example WoW can be used, it does not have soloQ, people there are asking for it from years and a lot players are leaving the pvp becuase they are spending more time in searching for people in LFG that actually playing the game(one of the reasons i left WoW) also there are other issues related to the teamQ only ranked pvp.

    In short in my opinion based on the experience which i have in pvp in many other mmorpgs ranked pvp should not be connected to the ATs .

    About the rewards i prefer to be able to gain gold from ranked because in that way i am not forced to do content which i do not want for gold, but even if it is removed thats not a big problem for me personally.

    Then you can form a team like all of the other competitive players if you really care to compete in less reward more rating based environment.

    I'm sorry but it just needs to happen at this point for those of us who want good competitive games again, and have the rating actually mean something.

    Thats the problem mate, i dont want to stay hours in LFG as in WoW, and WoW has much bigger player base and you still have more hours in LFG than actually playing pvp. YOu have ATs at the moment so you can have your "true" competitive experience there, no need to ruin rated pvp, for those of us which are playing more casually (which i believe is much more ppl than the high end AT players).

    You said you are playing casually so you probably aren't deep enough into the community to recognize how much match manipulation & botting is happening in the ranked mode solo/duo only. If you had recognized it, you'd be agreeing with me once you realized solid 5 man queues full of humans is the only way to stop garbage match making.

    TeamQ only, has a lot of problems of its own, i can give couple of examples if you want:
    1. People will mostly search people with higher rating than them in LFG and shunt people with lower rating,
    2. People will accept you in group only if you play meta build or comp specific build and reject you if you dont,
    3. People will leave after 1 lost match, so you will have to again spend time in LFG in order to replace.

    Looks like you don't run ATs often, if you ever have at all. Nothing you've said here is even remotely true.

    1. No one searches higher rating than them in LFG because LFG groups are labeled things like "Plat +" and everyone in the Plat + community knows each other, so if people join who are not Plat +, they get kicked. If people join who you don't know, you badge check. Same goes for w/e LFG you post. It's actually rather easy to form a team for AT in the LFG. If you had ever tried it even once, you'd already know this.
    2. No one boots anyone out based on "meta builds" they boot people out based on the merit of your personal reputation and/or current rating.
    3. People don't leave after 1 loss. In all the time I've spent in ATs, which is a lot of time at this point, I've seen that happen maybe twice. Maybe it's a problem for "Anyone Join Groups", but groups who are even Gold + do not have this problem. People at Gold + levels who join an AT know what they're getting themselves into beforehand. They are joining not for big rewards but rather for good games, and they have an open willingness to get trashed by Plat + teams because they want to learn and get better. <- This is the difference between yolo/duo gamble dice throw ranked reward casual play, and competitive AT team play. And might I add HOW MUCH LOWER the toxicity is in AT play for this very reason.

    All of this problems are seen in WoW (which i repeat has much bigger player base) and people are leaving because of it, From the last report which i have seen 42% of the WoW player base stop playing (just in about 2 month period) and very big part of that is because of the pvp and LFG related issues.

    Stop comparing this to WoW. What's going on here is nothing like WoW. It really isn't.

    Last month of WoW playing i spended around 100 hours in the game and 60-70 hours were just waiting in LFG searching for teammates , i dont want to experience that anymore, thats why most of the WoW PvP community are asking for soloQ from years, specially the new and casual people , because they are suffering the most from teamQ only system, so i suggest lets learn from other game's mistakes instead of doing the same mistakes which are did there, which would lead to even worse results in pvp participation.

    You should actually try LFGing an AT team in GW2 instead of assumin everything is like WoW. You'd see that the LFG AT team will fill up usually within about 2 or 3 minutes with a Gold + listing. You go Plat + and it starts turning into 10+ minute organization through LFG. You go Plat 2 + and then it begins turning into a 20+ minute organize sometimes requiring personal invites to fill the roster.

    I also think it's hilarious that you say "we should learn from other games" yet you literally said "WoW's population is much higher. WoW does not have solo queue pvp." Did it ever occur to you that the reason why GW2's population was so low is because the conversion to solo/duo drove people off with the problems it created? If you had been an avid player all of these years and had somewhere near 20,000 games played, you'd already recognize this fact. Many players up and left GW2 pvp when they realized how much math manipulation solo/duo ranked brought into the game.

    If you don't know what smurfing, synching, throwing, multi box botting, win trading is, you have no idea what's going on my man. The leaderboards are ruined in GW2 because of all this. The solo queue mode you love so dearly as a casual player is almost entirely responsible for enabling these problems. If you don't understand why, well that's a topic for a different thread.

    From what is seen in WoW easily can be concluded that teamQ system only ,work good only for hard core players and it is very punishing from casual and new players, thats why i am strongly against removing soloQ from ranked or making ranked games only at specific hours. About the rewards in ranked as i said i prefer to be able to make gold in ranked pvp, but if they are removed that wont stop me from playing pvp since thats the content which i enjoy the most.

    And that's why I said that the hardcore players can go do their 5 man in ATs, and then everyone else can go to Unranked with Ranked rewards for their mixed queue system. You aren't understanding that the suggestion I propose would help players like yourself. It would put the try hards in a different fish tank where they are trying to compete for clout of rating and badges and MAT wins. Everyone else can have fun making their gold and getting pips for shards and w/e in Unranked that has Ranked rewards shuffled to it.

    Look man, it sounds like you want to compete for rating which is why you argued against me to begin with. But honestly, if you don't want that rating enough to take 3 minutes form a team through an LFG to help support the purpose of the rating actually reflecting real player skill in a 5 man environment rather than a bunch of dice throw gambling in yolo/duo, maybe you shouldn't be worried about rating at all. Because the rest of us want a system that means something again, where matches are clean.

    Solo queue is casual man. Rating has no place in a casual environment full of bots and synch queue match manipulation. Sorry but it doesn't.

    Rating/Badge system needs to be slid over to AT monthly seasons that begin and end with MAT. Ranked rewards can be slid over to Unranked.

    Please dont get me wrong i am not saying that the current system is the best, just from what i have seen teamQ only system is much MUCH worse.

    You haven't seen anything. You keep referencing WoW and saying things that if you had ever played a 5 man team even once, you'd know weren't true. I mean, say what you want man. Just stop making assumptions about what's going on in GW2 based off of WoW. These are two very different lists of problems.

    I dont have time atm to reponce to everything , but i will a bit later, but i want to mention that personal attacks as " you dont know nothing" do not back up your point but only show that you dont like people disagreing with you, if you cannot back up your point with facts or logic dont even try.

    I will respond to everything a bit later, but lets keep the conversation constructive.

    I simply pointed out things you claim that are wrong. It's not an attack if you're just being corrected on things that everyone else knows is true.

    Look man, no one criticizes this game more than the guys in the pvp subforum, we get it. But a lot of what you are saying is just not accurate. It seems you're creating a hypothesis on GW2 based on your experience with WoW. Literally anyone who runs an AT or two every couple of days can see this in your post.

    Arguing with me here will not be constructive to anything other than some itch you have to do it. So this will be my last post to you.

    Oh and one more thing. I did not say "You don't know nothing". I said "You haven't seen anything" . <- Consider the difference in emotional inflection between these two catch phrases, and that maybe you are seeing what you want to see and not necessarily what something actually is. What you did here is very similar to you arguing with me about the practicalities of how the AT community works, as if you had these facts that you KNEW, but in reality it is quite clear that you lack experience & immersion time participating in organized team play in GW2, which you pretty much stated this yourself in your own response. And you know what? That's perfectly fine. Just don't argue facts about something like that from the sheer standpoint WoW hypothesis only. literally everything you've come at me with has seriously been a hypothetical comparison to WoW. I mean.. yeah alright, w/e.

    Do what you want man.

    .

    I simply pointed out things you claim that are wrong.

    You didnt back up your claim with anything, which do NOT prove me wrong , but only shows that we disagree with each other, how did you prove me wrong exactly?

    Solo queue is casual man. Rating has no place in a casual environment full of bots and synch queue match manipulation. Sorry but it doesn't.

    looks like you dont know the difference of ranked and unranked.

    lack experience & immersion time participating in organized team play in GW2,

    i never stated that i have experience in it. I stated that teamQ only system probably wont be that good as you think it will be , because of reason which we already saw in different games(not only WOW every mmo with just teamQ has this problems so i dont think GW2 will be any different). It does not work in games which are much bigger than GW2 , what exactly makes you believe that it will be different in GW2?

    If you don't know what smurfing, synching, throwing, multi box botting, win trading is, you have no idea what's going on my man.

    all of this is happening in WoW which dont have soloQ , so yea looks like teamQ is not the answer to that either. Also as far as i know there was some cases of win trading in ATs too...

    Bots are not in pvp because of soloQ , but because they can gain easy money (gold)from it, so removing rewards will definitely help in that regards, so no need to remove soloQ to get out the bots

    Arguing with me here will not be constructive to anything other than some itch you have to do it. So this will be my last post to you.

    so you dont even want to read my point of view and my arguments , which only prove that you just dont like people which disagree with you. Good , then certainly the conversation with you is just pointless.

    I just hope GW2 developers dont listen to you blindly. You have very good suggestions in other posts, but this one is not one of them in my opinion.

    Have a great day and be healthy mate!

  • Flumek.9043Flumek.9043 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @memausz.7264 said:
    For the few of us who are still playing PvP (because people are leaving the game mode in droves - just look at the NA leaderboard.... no one above 1900 or even 1800 at this point), ArenaNet seriously needs to adjust the rating gain/loss from winning/losing PvP ranked matches. So many of us are frustrated and get -21 for losing games that cannot be carried and yet our 200 lower rated teammates only lose 8 rating points. It really should be even across the whole team - that way, the better players will win more games and go up over time, whereas the weaker players will continue to lose themselves into their proper division. It's the best you can do with such a low population that 6 minute ranked queues are normal and you still end up with outmatched games. :/

    There isnt a solution for low playerbase.

    Youre always playing with the next best player available. Doesnt matter if youre 200elo apart, it simply means theres NOBODY from 1800-1600 there.

    Also, Leaderboards NEVER produce actual tournament winner in nr1 spots.
    Its always a reliable, bit cheezy, soloq hero that climbs the ladder playing ladder strats, where as the organized team players usually place in middle of top spots.
    So dont lose nerves over who gets nr1 tittle if we all know the best player is like on spot nr20.

    Only thing they can do is maybe lower legendary tier, but its just cosmetic change.

    P.S.
    Some matches arent meant to be winnable.
    The wurms tryharding and going 68-0 in 3v3 also isnt fun for long. Its actually more stressfull, grindy and stupid cheezy and is just stat padding.
    Play the game how u enjoy it and stop when ur not having fun anymore.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    There isnt a solution for low playerbase.

    Not for GW2 PvP anyway. Anet gave up on it a long time ago ...

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just wish the game didn't punish me for playing it, like pre deciding the game before it start by stacking one team over the other since I have played X amount of games before and now I have to solo it even though it is supposed be a team game , because the matchmaker considers you 200+ rating over your current one. Get a kitten start bam now you are smerfing for god knows how many games till you reach your usual rating, half of your team is probably mouse skill clicking while the enemy team has all LB titles and after a while the game switches phases and now you are on the LB title team for some ez 500 0.
    The matchmaker is so predictable , that you can tell what will happen in the next game you queue in.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Master Ketsu.4569 said:
    The actual rating algorithm in matchmaking used isn't that bad. The problem lies in how it handles Duo Q / Party Q, failing to take many factors into account.

    This especially well said! Personally and I can imagine many other like-minded people have stopped PvP due to this, the more I was going up in rank and the more duo I would meet in the opposite team... sometimes 2x duo and the game would still punish me with -22 pts for losing ...no point in keeping up with that charade

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Flumek.9043 said:

    @memausz.7264 said:
    For the few of us who are still playing PvP (because people are leaving the game mode in droves - just look at the NA leaderboard.... no one above 1900 or even 1800 at this point), ArenaNet seriously needs to adjust the rating gain/loss from winning/losing PvP ranked matches. So many of us are frustrated and get -21 for losing games that cannot be carried and yet our 200 lower rated teammates only lose 8 rating points. It really should be even across the whole team - that way, the better players will win more games and go up over time, whereas the weaker players will continue to lose themselves into their proper division. It's the best you can do with such a low population that 6 minute ranked queues are normal and you still end up with outmatched games. :/

    There isnt a solution for low playerbase.

    Youre always playing with the next best player available. Doesnt matter if youre 200elo apart, it simply means theres NOBODY from 1800-1600 there.

    Also, Leaderboards NEVER produce actual tournament winner in nr1 spots.
    Its always a reliable, bit cheezy, soloq hero that climbs the ladder playing ladder strats, where as the organized team players usually place in middle of top spots.
    So dont lose nerves over who gets nr1 tittle if we all know the best player is like on spot nr20.

    Only thing they can do is maybe lower legendary tier, but its just cosmetic change.

    P.S.
    Some matches arent meant to be winnable.
    The wurms tryharding and going 68-0 in 3v3 also isnt fun for long. Its actually more stressfull, grindy and stupid cheezy and is just stat padding.
    Play the game how u enjoy it and stop when ur not having fun anymore.

    The solution would be to make players get better on their own terms...and not trying to climb the ladder while surfing on somebody else wave but that again would go against the "everybody a winner" mentality instilled by Anet since season 4 after the cries of players incapable of rising through the ranks with their own effort.

    They changed the MMR to the current one where new players start at 1200 after the tears of players who would start and finish in Bronze during season 1 to 3....that's your reason behind low playerbase

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    I have a different opinion on this. I find it fine for what it does. For the past year I have been playing different professions and had to make progress through different tiers. Every time I was getting better / more comfortable with the build I could feel my allies and opponents also being better.
    It has a few flaws but most of them come from people’s expectations (and a lot can be tied to the team comp / roles).
    The second thing you are describing is way more specific and linked to a huge ranking difference between the team members. I play solo (EU) more than 90% of the time and mostly around 21 until midnight during the week or the afternoon during the we. I only lost those amounts of points when playing with a silver guildmate, never in solo even when I was on my “previous” main (obviously after the start of the season where you can loose way more :)).