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Why does WvW have the worst reward structure?


Firebeard.1746

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I really hate how back-loaded the skirmish tracks are. Mathing it out it will take me a ridiculous amount of time to earn the legendaries from WvW on my current schedule. I could probably swing sPVP but wouldn't have much fun. It's kind of crazy that 3 chests in you're making almost double your first chest as far as those blasted tickets go (at least it feels that way).

sPVP is weird because it's bimodal, the 2 chests just before the top one have some pretty bad pip/ascended shard ratios but the top one I believe is slightly better. So if you're casual you earn things in a catchup amount of time, but if you no-life it, your'e rewarded too.

I like that the WvW tracks go faster as you rank up, but my rank won't hit cap before I get the tickets I need, and it'll probably be years before I see a significant increase in pips/tick. I might quit the game before that.

I dont want to talk about raiding but I'll mention raiding beats both PVP and WvW handily if you have a static that can reliably clear some bosses. Each boss would take a maximum of 10 minutes, and the value of a single LI/LD is pretty high in terms of time spent vs % completion of a legendary in that context vs other forms of progression.

I'm just starting to feel miffed because the most efficient progression comes from game modes I have trouble motivating myself to do (or finding people to do them with). And on paper, GW2 is raid or die if you consider the time progression value in the presence of a static and you're concerned about legendary armor progression. ON paper the resource caps are very similar in terms of gating, but in practice WvW and PVP are really grindy, with WvW being particularly atrocious.

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Yeah, right now, you don't play WvW for the rewards. You play it because you like it and that's about it...I agree though, for a casual player, the rewards are just not there and that's the only incentive for some people.Really dedicated players do get tickets, and repeated diamond tracks get you mats but it also doesn't feel balanced to the time they're spending in the game compared to rewards they'd get if they spent the same amount of time in literally any other game mode.

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@Veprovina.4876 said:Yeah, right now, you don't play WvW for the rewards. You play it because you like it and that's about it...I agree though, for a casual player, the rewards are just not there and that's the only incentive for some people.Really dedicated players do get tickets, and repeated diamond tracks get you mats but it also doesn't feel balanced to the time they're spending in the game compared to rewards they'd get if they spent the same amount of time in literally any other game mode.

Yeah this is my problem. And I don't like the other game modes. Also I like the WvW armors the best.

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Because WVW was supposed to be the 24/7 endgame content unlike weekly timegated raids (which didn't exist at launch) , dungeons (no longer "supported"), fractals (soft-gated at daily), or any openworld meta reward. The problem is after megaservers , linking, then they added raiding... and people then compare speedclears which aren't the average player.

Before skirmish tracks (which is what this thread is about) people still played WvW. Back then we had to pay for repairs, no mounts existed, food was only personal (no ascended platters) , and you had to pay to upgrade keeps and towers. There were no squads nor were there skirmishes , it was 24/7 ticking. The worlds that did well had a minor PVE bonus. Did you know ascended gear didn't exist at launch? The moment ascended weapons were added there was a 5% delta between people that did fractals often and those that did not because at the time there was a ~300g cost per ascended armor piece to craft.

PVP isn't really endgame content as it is unlocked immediately , it's more of a separate mode since gear isn't shared with PvE. Ranked is unlocked at PvP rank 20. The continued gold payout from the PVP league tracks is what has led to bots in PVP.

As in every other "increase WvW rewards thread" I would say instead of increasing rewards that only have implications for PvE players it is better to introduce things that have value for primarily WvW players.Examples:

  • Conflux
  • Warbringer (350 WvW rank)
  • Warlord's armor set
  • Triumphant hero armor set (zero WvW rank required)
  • Mistforged triumphant hero armor set (500 WvW rank)
  • Removal of repair costs and upgrade costs for structures
  • Ascended food

Examples of things that would actually help WvW players (i.e. anything that is priced for a 10 man squad but can be used for 50+ people would be an example):

  • Remove grandmaster mark shards, replace them all with grandmaster marks
  • Legendary accessory / trinket using emblems similar to Conflux , effect is optional
  • Alternate recipes for bountiful maintenance oil to make supports less costly to play
  • Add lvl 70 account-bound heal utility to Permanent Portable Provisioner
  • Accountbound utility station (Sharpening Stone Station) for power damage that doesn't cost ludicrous amounts of gold to make (Thesis of Masterful Strength doesn't seem to be popular enough due to cost) and uses WvW ingredients such as testimonies of heroics or emblems instead of Deldrimor Steel
  • Lower the thresholds for the WvW masteries so new players (and alts) have a decent shot
  • Disable karka potion in WVW
  • Dungeon token trader for testimonies of heroics or badges of honor , to make monk runes easier to obtain for new WvW players (240 tokens + 1 piece of armor per reward track right now = 3 runes tops) --- to prevent abuse make it runes only
  • Remove daily veteran slayer and put in daily yak defender which is similarly low effort, the daily veteran slayer does nothing for the matchup and encourages afking at the spawn point
  • Allow for merging +5 WvW stat infusion with +9 agony infusion for non-cosmetic +9 agony with +5 stats , the cost could be reasonably high 200g+ and it would not matter
  • Reintroduce a prestige level armor , mistforged with the addition of a dye channel for the light blue armor glow. Require 2000 WvW rank as the mistforged set used to require and the mistforged set fully unlocked, plus the armor traded in must be WvW legendary armor. If it has to be even harder, make it similar to Envoy's Herald where every single mistforged set must be unlocked first.
  • Mystic clover weekly vendor that uses legendary spikes / emblems similar to festival vendor --- not another participation reward for "being there"

Adjusted Gross Income is Income - Deductible Expenses. Same principle should apply to WvW, where there should be focus on reducing expenses incurred. Food + utility have been largely addressed for power specs , tactics have been introduced into skirmish chests, superior siege (not guild siege) is obtainable from testimonies of heroics.

edit: add grandmaster mark shard note , add utility note

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@"Infusion.7149" said:Because WVW was supposed to be the 24/7 endgame content unlike weekly timegated raids (which didn't exist at launch) , dungeons (no longer "supported"), fractals (soft-gated at daily), or any openworld meta reward. The problem is after megaservers , linking, then they added raiding... and people then compare speedclears which aren't the average player.

I said 10 minutes in my calculation. That's a standard clear of not hitting an enrage timer with no wips, a static should be able to do that regularly at some point, though you're right, it can go much faster.

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There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.

Also, i'd argue that - Legendary armor is more of a WvW endgame thing rather than PvE because WvW uses much more diverse stats and combinations than PvE ever did, so if anything, WvW legendary armor should fall into the category of "WvW mode specific items" even though it can be used everywhere. The fact that acquiring it is so insulting to people's time is well... Insulting... Remember, even if people don't clear all raids per week, they're still going to get their full set +achievement collections WAY faster than an average WvW player that barely finishes Gold per week. And that's uncompareable. This should be addressed. But not just for armor, for skirmish tickets in general, there's infusions to be had with those and other WvW specific items that you're just not getting if you don't 24/7 in the mode (which - even if people want to, they mostly can't due to RL commintments and priorities). The whole skirmish ticket system is also just very backwards. You'll start getting them by the time you no longer need them for anything. And then they're useless. So additional items, probably WvW related should be made able to purchase with them.

Again, the time required to be "rewarded" in any other game mode is in great disbalance compared to WvW. PvP might be up there too, but i can't comment on that because i don't play it.

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@"Firebeard.1746" said:I really hate how back-loaded the skirmish tracks are. Mathing it out it will take me a ridiculous amount of time to earn the legendaries from WvW on my current schedule. I could probably swing sPVP but wouldn't have much fun. It's kind of crazy that 3 chests in you're making almost double your first chest as far as those blasted tickets go (at least it feels that way).

sPVP is weird because it's bimodal, the 2 chests just before the top one have some pretty bad pip/ascended shard ratios but the top one I believe is slightly better. So if you're casual you earn things in a catchup amount of time, but if you no-life it, your'e rewarded too.

In wvw youre rewarded if you afk. Literally.

I like that the WvW tracks go faster as you rank up, but my rank won't hit cap before I get the tickets I need, and it'll probably be years before I see a significant increase in pips/tick. I might quit the game before that.

Rank has absolutely nothing to do with reward track progress. A diamond gains as many points per tick as a bronze. Ticket progress is another thing, anet increased base pips for eveyone at some point. Otherwise, afking in outnumbered maps makes you gain tickets as if you were a diamond rank player. Out of curiosity, what's your rank?

I dont want to talk about raiding but I'll mention raiding beats both PVP and WvW handily if you have a static that can reliably clear some bosses. Each boss would take a maximum of 10 minutes, and the value of a single LI/LD is pretty high in terms of time spent vs % completion of a legendary in that context vs other forms of progression.

By the time you actually do manage to kill a raidboss in 10 minutes, you will have to have invested MANY hours in training to learn HOW to kill said boss in 10 minutes. Not solo, like youre in wvw and gain your pips, but with 9 other people. Good luck with that!

I'm just starting to feel miffed because the most efficient progression comes from game modes I have trouble motivating myself to do (or finding people to do them with). And on paper, GW2 is raid or die if you consider the time progression value in the presence of a static and you're concerned about legendary armor progression. ON paper the resource caps are very similar in terms of gating, but in practice WvW and PVP are really grindy, with WvW being particularly atrocious.

So... What is your suggestion? Apart from complaining, how would you make legendary armor acquisition "fair"? I cant raid, real life issues prevent me from getting some prestigious skins. Should anet dumb it down for me? Should i get triple LI because i am new at raiding, and not too successful at it? How would it devalue the time, money and effort spent by others who are now labeled as "veteran raiders"?

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@Voltekka.2375 said:

@"Firebeard.1746" said:I really hate how back-loaded the skirmish tracks are. Mathing it out it will take me a ridiculous amount of time to earn the legendaries from WvW on my current schedule. I could probably swing sPVP but wouldn't have much fun. It's kind of crazy that 3 chests in you're making almost double your first chest as far as those blasted tickets go (at least it feels that way).

sPVP is weird because it's bimodal, the 2 chests just before the top one have some pretty bad pip/ascended shard ratios but the top one I believe is slightly better. So if you're casual you earn things in a catchup amount of time, but if you no-life it, your'e rewarded too.

In wvw youre rewarded if you afk. Literally.

What game are you playing? Your pips for the legendary armors are tied to participation. In fact if you're not level 5 or above you get none. You have to do something every now and then. And if you're roaming and someone is ganking you, preventing you from doing anything, you can actually lose participation and not get anything. Rare, but it can happen.

I like that the WvW tracks go faster as you rank up, but my rank won't hit cap before I get the tickets I need, and it'll probably be years before I see a significant increase in pips/tick. I might quit the game before that.

Rank has absolutely nothing to do with reward track progress. A diamond gains as many points per tick as a bronze. Ticket progress is another thing, anet increased base pips for eveyone at some point. Otherwise, afking in outnumbered maps makes you gain tickets as if you were a diamond rank player. Out of curiosity, what's your rank?

I'm talking about skirmishes not the normal reward track. Google "WvW skirmish track" I think we're talking about 2 different things.

I dont want to talk about raiding but I'll mention raiding beats both PVP and WvW handily if you have a static that can reliably clear some bosses. Each boss would take a maximum of 10 minutes, and the value of a single LI/LD is pretty high in terms of time spent vs % completion of a legendary in that context vs other forms of progression.

By the time you actually do manage to kill a raidboss in 10 minutes, you will have to have invested MANY hours in training to learn HOW to kill said boss in 10 minutes. Not solo, like youre in wvw and gain your pips, but with 9 other people. Good luck with that!

This is only true for the really hard bosses. Even casually downing 5-6 of the easier ones could give you an armor set in a year. If I had a static, that wouldn't be an issue, I know which encounters etc. are easier. Hell even if you wiped a few times you'd still be crushing other means.

I'm just starting to feel miffed because the most efficient progression comes from game modes I have trouble motivating myself to do (or finding people to do them with). And on paper, GW2 is raid or die if you consider the time progression value in the presence of a static and you're concerned about legendary armor progression. ON paper the resource caps are very similar in terms of gating, but in practice WvW and PVP are really grindy, with WvW being particularly atrocious.

So... What is your suggestion? Apart from complaining, how would you make legendary armor acquisition "fair"? I cant raid, real life issues prevent me from getting some prestigious skins. Should anet dumb it down for me? Should i get triple LI because i am new at raiding, and not too successful at it? How would it devalue the time, money and effort spent by others who are now labeled as "veteran raiders"?

I would at least just flatten the Skirmish track skirmish tickets, instead of backloading them. I wouldn't immediately advocate accelerating them because rank does give you more pips per tick, but instead of backloading them and encouraging no-lifing it I'd flatten ticket gain per pip across chests. That's really the biggest issue imo. I would also crunch pip/h against an average sPVP queue and make sure the % legendary material/h is equal between the two for a given armor set for an average player. I don't think it's that hard. I just think it's insane they attach the most value to the least enjoyable game modes. If I could form a static for raiding, I would. That's really why hardcore raiders play in progression statics at least.

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@Firebeard.1746 said:

@Firebeard.1746 said:I really hate how back-loaded the skirmish tracks are. Mathing it out it will take me a ridiculous amount of time to earn the legendaries from WvW on my current schedule. I could probably swing sPVP but wouldn't have much fun. It's kind of crazy that 3 chests in you're making almost double your first chest as far as those blasted tickets go (at least it feels that way).

sPVP is weird because it's bimodal, the 2 chests just before the top one have some pretty bad pip/ascended shard ratios but the top one I believe is slightly better. So if you're casual you earn things in a catchup amount of time, but if you no-life it, your'e rewarded too.

In wvw youre rewarded if you afk. Literally.

What game are you playing? Your pips for the legendary armors are tied to participation. In fact if you're not level 5 or above you get none. You have to do something every now and then. And if you're roaming and someone is ganking you, preventing you from doing anything, you can actually lose participation and not get anything. Rare, but it can happen.

I like that the WvW tracks go faster as you rank up, but my rank won't hit cap before I get the tickets I need, and it'll probably be years before I see a significant increase in pips/tick. I might quit the game before that.

Rank has absolutely nothing to do with reward track progress. A diamond gains as many points per tick as a bronze. Ticket progress is another thing, anet increased base pips for eveyone at some point. Otherwise, afking in outnumbered maps makes you gain tickets as if you were a diamond rank player. Out of curiosity, what's your rank?

I'm talking about skirmishes not the normal reward track. Google "WvW skirmish track" I think we're talking about 2 different things.

I dont want to talk about raiding but I'll mention raiding beats both PVP and WvW handily if you have a static that can reliably clear some bosses. Each boss would take a maximum of 10 minutes, and the value of a single LI/LD is pretty high in terms of time spent vs % completion of a legendary in that context vs other forms of progression.

By the time you actually do manage to kill a raidboss in 10 minutes, you will have to have invested MANY hours in training to learn HOW to kill said boss in 10 minutes. Not solo, like youre in wvw and gain your pips, but with 9 other people. Good luck with that!

This is only true for the really hard bosses. Even casually downing 5-6 of the easier ones could give you an armor set in a year. If I had a static, that wouldn't be an issue, I know which encounters etc. are easier. Hell even if you wiped a few times you'd still be crushing other means.

I'm just starting to feel miffed because the most efficient progression comes from game modes I have trouble motivating myself to do (or finding people to do them with). And on paper, GW2 is raid or die if you consider the time progression value in the presence of a static and you're concerned about legendary armor progression. ON paper the resource caps are very similar in terms of gating, but in practice WvW and PVP are really grindy, with WvW being particularly atrocious.

So... What is your suggestion? Apart from complaining, how would you make legendary armor acquisition "fair"? I cant raid, real life issues prevent me from getting some prestigious skins. Should anet dumb it down for me? Should i get triple LI because i am new at raiding, and not too successful at it? How would it devalue the time, money and effort spent by others who are now labeled as "veteran raiders"?

I would at least just flatten the Skirmish track skirmish tickets, instead of backloading them. I wouldn't immediately advocate accelerating them because rank does give you more pips per tick, but instead of backloading them and encouraging no-lifing it I'd flatten ticket gain per pip across chests. That's really the biggest issue imo. I would also crunch pip/h against an average sPVP queue and make sure the % legendary material/h is equal between the two for a given armor set for an average player. I don't think it's that hard. I just think it's insane they attach the most value to the least enjoyable game modes. If I could form a static for raiding, I would. That's really why hardcore raiders play in progression statics at least.

Participation Tier 3 means pips, not tier 5. You can keep participation t6 by capping a camp every 10 mins, hence the afking.I get it, we all do, youre relatively new to wvw (thats why you dont mention rank, probably) the EZ mode for leggy armor. Keep in mind that this is a game, for all purposes it is supposed to bring you FUN. If you have an issue with "the least enjoyable game modes", petition for an OW leggy armor set, make your suggestions.Personally, i enjoy wvw. Tickets come with playing what i enjoy. The "no-lifing" part is YOUR issue.

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WvW rewards system is so strange to me.The rewards in general are very low in comparison to other game modes and I don't get why they decided to tie it so heavily to time spent in game over anything else, I wish they'd change the system to reward capping and defending and holding objectives more.

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@Solanum.6983 said:WvW rewards system is so strange to me.The rewards in general are very low in comparison to other game modes and I don't get why they decided to tie it so heavily to time spent in game over anything else, I wish they'd change the system to reward capping and defending and holding objectives more.

Probably because they don't want to force players into a specific playstyle. One thing that makes WvW great is the freedom and variety it offers to the players and the reward system should not work against that. The current reward system is certainly not optimal, but it is very hard to provide fair and not too easily exploitable rewards.

Generally i think WvW is not something that should be played primarily for rewards, as reward farming is usually all about minimising effort and risk, which leads to as little interaction with opposing players as possible and that's the opposite of what WvW is supposd to be.

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@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@Solanum.6983 said:WvW rewards system is so strange to me.The rewards in general are very low in comparison to other game modes and I don't get why they decided to tie it so heavily to time spent in game over anything else, I wish they'd change the system to reward capping and defending and holding objectives more.

Probably because they don't want to force players into a specific playstyle. One thing that makes WvW great is the freedom and variety it offers to the players and the reward system should not work against that. The current reward system is certainly not optimal, but it is very hard to provide fair and not too easily exploitable rewards.

Generally i think WvW is not something that should be played primarily for rewards, as reward farming is usually all about minimising effort and risk, which leads to as little interaction with opposing players as possible and that's the opposite of what WvW is supposd to be.

you are 100% correct. if you tie rewards to holding stuff ppl will just play tower ranger and never leave the keep, get rewarded for pew pewing the few roamers down 1v5 and 2v5 etc. and you already get participation for capping stuff so ..

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@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121597/add-in-daily-weekly-and-monthly-vendors-into-wvw

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

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I understand this is a frequently talked about topic, but IMO, something needs to be changed to the reward system. I agree with OP that I find myself less motivated to play WvW for rewards purposes than the other game modes. I've been grinding sPvP lately so I can get Legendary Armor at a more reasonable rate of time and get the gold needed for the materials.

The thing that benefits me as a player in sPvP more is that it isn't weekly time gated. It's a 2 month season where I can semi-casually play and reach the last tier of rewards every season. This isn't possible for me in WvW. If I feel like I can't dump a decent amount of time in WvW that week, it almost seems like a waste of play time (from a rewards perspective).

Is there anyway WvW can be turned into seasonal rewards tracks like sPvP that syncs with the re-links? Then maybe have special events for the 2 week mini-season? In this way, the elite players can repeat the last track for nice rewards but players that can't play alot of hours ever week can still get decent rewards by climbing the reward track over time. We can still have the weekly matchups and your participation the prior week can still affect your pip-rate the following week. Then maybe at the end of the 2 month season, players can be rewarded for how many pips they contributed along with the normal reward track. I'm sure they'll be ways for players to exploit this, but is something like this feasible?

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here:

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

Yes, your thread! :smile:

Yes, we totally need a way to trade the items we get by default that have no use. Some people grind GoB for clovers and obsidian, others will fight a lot and have tons of emblems of avenger, PPT people will get more emblems of the conqueror probably etc., and they just at one point just start piling up with no use. And just deleting something in this game feels really bad. Avenger emblems are cool for tracking your kills but that should be an automated UI thing, not an item, but i digress.

(BTW is bumping against the rules? I'd bump your thread but i don't want it deleted.)

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here:

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

Yes, your thread! :smile:

Yes, we totally need a way to trade the items we get by default that have no use. Some people grind GoB for clovers and obsidian, others will fight a lot and have tons of emblems of avenger, PPT people will get more emblems of the conqueror probably etc., and they just at one point just start piling up with no use. And just deleting something in this game feels really bad. Avenger emblems are cool for tracking your kills but that should be an automated UI thing, not an item, but i digress.

(BTW is bumping against the rules? I'd bump your thread but i don't want it deleted.)

You have my express permission to go necro that thread and add any commentary you want. Tag all the Anet forum devs you want to your little heart's desire.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here:

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

Yes, your thread! :smile:

Yes, we totally need a way to trade the items we get by default that have no use. Some people grind GoB for clovers and obsidian, others will fight a lot and have tons of emblems of avenger, PPT people will get more emblems of the conqueror probably etc., and they just at one point just start piling up with no use. And just deleting something in this game feels really bad. Avenger emblems are cool for tracking your kills but that should be an automated UI thing, not an item, but i digress.

(BTW is bumping against the rules? I'd bump your thread but i don't want it deleted.)

You have my express permission to go necro that thread and add any commentary you want. Tag all the Anet forum devs you want to your little heart's desire.

Hey, tagging Anet might be a good idea though! :smile:

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here:

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

Yes, your thread! :smile:

Yes, we totally need a way to trade the items we get by default that have no use. Some people grind GoB for clovers and obsidian, others will fight a lot and have tons of emblems of avenger, PPT people will get more emblems of the conqueror probably etc., and they just at one point just start piling up with no use. And just deleting something in this game feels really bad. Avenger emblems are cool for tracking your kills but that should be an automated UI thing, not an item, but i digress.

(BTW is bumping against the rules? I'd bump your thread but i don't want it deleted.)

You have my express permission to go necro that thread and add any commentary you want. Tag all the Anet forum devs you want to your little heart's desire.

Hey, tagging Anet might be a good idea though! :smile:

By all means have at it.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:There was one thread in WvW that suggested we get to trade GoB and other stuff for some WvW and general items like converting sometihng to skirmish tickets to buy WvW stuff with, etc. Kinda like @"Infusion.7149" suggested. That would help greatly to establish "mode specific" rewards he's talking about (as skirmish tickets mostly give you WvW stuff).

But i can't find it anymore, it's probably buried by now.You mean my thread?

Here let me shamelessly plug it here:

That thread was for exchanging GoBs, and Emblems for Memories of Battle, Skirmish Tickets, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers at various amounts via a daily vendor, a weekly vendor, and a monthly vendor. The point was to have a means of trading some of the rewards we all build up over time for something more concrete and tailored to several different needs. Some people need Memories of Battle, some need Skirmish Tickets, some need Clovers, and some just need the Coins. There were higher exchange amounts on the monthly vendor so people with large hoards could offload some of it, but only once a month to limit supply shocks.

Yes, your thread! :smile:

Yes, we totally need a way to trade the items we get by default that have no use. Some people grind GoB for clovers and obsidian, others will fight a lot and have tons of emblems of avenger, PPT people will get more emblems of the conqueror probably etc., and they just at one point just start piling up with no use. And just deleting something in this game feels really bad. Avenger emblems are cool for tracking your kills but that should be an automated UI thing, not an item, but i digress.

(BTW is bumping against the rules? I'd bump your thread but i don't want it deleted.)

You have my express permission to go necro that thread and add any commentary you want. Tag all the Anet forum devs you want to your little heart's desire.

Hey, tagging Anet might be a good idea though! :smile:

By all means have at it.

Done. :smile:

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@"Jaykay.9641" said:I understand this is a frequently talked about topic, but IMO, something needs to be changed to the reward system. I agree with OP that I find myself less motivated to play WvW for rewards purposes than the other game modes. I've been grinding sPvP lately so I can get Legendary Armor at a more reasonable rate of time and get the gold needed for the materials.

The thing that benefits me as a player in sPvP more is that it isn't weekly time gated. It's a 2 month season where I can semi-casually play and reach the last tier of rewards every season. This isn't possible for me in WvW. If I feel like I can't dump a decent amount of time in WvW that week, it almost seems like a waste of play time (from a rewards perspective).

Is there anyway WvW can be turned into seasonal rewards tracks like sPvP that syncs with the re-links? Then maybe have special events for the 2 week mini-season? In this way, the elite players can repeat the last track for nice rewards but players that can't play alot of hours ever week can still get decent rewards by climbing the reward track over time. We can still have the weekly matchups and your participation the prior week can still affect your pip-rate the following week. Then maybe at the end of the 2 month season, players can be rewarded for how many pips they contributed along with the normal reward track. I'm sure they'll be ways for players to exploit this, but is something like this feasible?

The amount of WvW pips you accumulated at the end of a week is recorded. It currently is of no use.

The never-ending gold reward in ranked SPVP is what has led to boting because there isn't diminishing returns. If it were up to me I would just auto-flag every account with an obscene amount of games in a season (if a game takes 10 minutes on average since you need time to queue then someone with thousands of games is highly likely to be a bot).

I find WvW more fun than PvP because you can choose who you wish to play with more or less and unless a server is "dead" you have activity at all times of the day. In sPvP unless you play unranked or ATs you don't have that luxury , 2v2 and 3v3 Deathmatch is a seasonal mode that has its own balance problems and botters/exploiters. Even if you play ATs or unranked you have to babysit the circles, which is less interesting of a mechanic than attacking or defending a structure IMO. There's also the time constraint involved, if you are going to play a full AT it is going to be roughly an hour with breaks in between depending on the matchup outcomes (i.e. if you get matched vs a top 10 try-hard team). Stronghold is existent only in unranked and is primarily based off the NPCs as you can't siege the objective yourself.

One of my friends that is a commander (that is on JQ now) actually started WvW years ago (2017-2018ish) because they didn't want to deal with raiding and find repetition of PvE mind-numbingly boring. So the idea that WvW legendary armor is too tedious isn't actually 100% true. People are more willing to play a mode they enjoy (key point) for a longer time than to put up with multiple hour training groups for raids with people that just want the rewards. If you treat WvW as "work" as original poster stated then yes it will be long and tedious. If your true goal is to wipe out the entire map and turn it your color, defend a T3 SMC tooth and nail until the next reset, or if you're a PPK guild to acquire 100 emblem of the avenger (which have no use beyond the first few) by the end the week as a personal goal, suddenly the hours of play doesn't seem so tedious.

So long as someone is willing to put in a modicum of effort to play a worthwhile build in WvW and pay attention to people that know what they are doing there shouldn't be an issue in picking it up. Capping and defending is an intuitive mechanic. The minutiae may take time to pick up and the WvW masteries deserve to be nerfed to <1000 rank but that is a separate issue.

To put it into perspective , how many people play 12+ hours in sPVP in a day that aren't bots or streamers (lol the esports dream)? How many people play WvW 12+ hours straight on reset weekend? I would say quite a few people. To add to that, I highly doubt raiders have that sort of dedication because speed is the goal (not the destination) unless it's a training group. After one or two wipes you're more likely to have people drop in PVE than in WVW. In WVW you see primarily PvE guilds wipe repeatedly and hop maps, but almost always fulfill their planned or scheduled time-slot.

edit: also WvW is the closest thing we have to GvG and "Guild Wars".

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There's been a lot of judgements and statements about me here that isn't accurate.

1) Yes, i'm a member of a wvw guild but that doesn't solve the time investment issue. It's kind of insulting really how much they expect you to play in 1 week if you want all the available tickets. Let alone getting gold which is probably the sanest baseline if you want to earn it before you quit the game

2) I'm not there for easy leggies. If i wanted them i'd literally do anything else. But i don't find them as fun.

Someone said i didn't talk about rank contributing when i did. Getting to 10k rank would take longer than earning the rewards and i've been barely playing wvw for 3 months and have 100 rank. This is with me using ley energy matter converter and karmic converter for rank as well, at this rate i might hit 10k in 30 years.

In theory if I wanted to be super effective at wvw i'd grind pvp for years before messing around there because as stated earlier, wvw requires more diverse stat sets than literally any other game mode.

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@Solanum.6983 said:WvW rewards system is so strange to me.The rewards in general are very low in comparison to other game modes and I don't get why they decided to tie it so heavily to time spent in game over anything else, I wish they'd change the system to reward capping and defending and holding objectives more.

They worry it'll become a EotM-style loot roundabout.

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So many people defend the mediocrity of the loot obtained through the game mode. But the base problem is if people do not feel that their time is valued they stop playing the game mode. Everyone here shops for the better value for their money and in video games peoples time is just as valuable as money. "Time is money" expression comes to mind. Most people have goals and if takes a noticeable amount of time longer to get to where you are going people start to go to other areas to obtain their goals faster.

The reward for WvW shouldn't be just playing WvW itself. That excuse is lacking and uninspired. Players should not be penalized because of the game mode they enjoy. No matter what game mode that may be.

Its funny when you think about how many people work on WvW. I believe they do not have a true team dedicated to the game mode because the game mode is dying (my opinion). But the game mode is dying because of their lack of staff. In order for changes to be made to make loot worth while would require them to actually acknowledge the game mode as important and devote a staff into making the proper adjustments to make the rewards more lucrative and desirable.

While I hope one day Anet will do the right thing, I am not going to hold my breath.

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