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Entropo.1524Entropo.1524 Member ✭✭

mirage . anyone other than bots play mirage anymore .. or mesmer for that matter . im realy intersted to know how many of u play mes regularly in pvp

<13

Comments

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Mirage is the most balanced it has ever been right now, its just not a faceroll build anymore. You actually have to know how to combo skills together and not waste cds.

    now we need to wait for other 8 classes to follow the same rules :D

    If only they did :(

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    plenty of mirage plat+, mechanically still better then warrior/ranger, which is way even shaved hard on number, it is still the mechanically carried build in ranked that is not tournament with pre made team. like thief. plenty of thief in top rating

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mirage needs a little more sustain without its second dodge.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    Objectively, even if you address those 4 points, you'd find yourself with a whole new set of points to address. The "next in-line OP builds" are always biding their time, waiting for their time to shine.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    Just want to point out that Warrior general damage is much higher than Revenant if you care to use something else than Main Hand Dagger (Reason being if Dagger did Axe damage, why even bother).

    Lowering Revenant damage won't change the fact that players aren't careful for their approach to bursting which is Quick but also the only thing they have. That's like asking to not have any punish if someone eats the whole thing.

    Deathstrike/Chilling Isolation don't do anymore damage than Warrior Axe overall Cleave and latter options to which DS depends on a higher CD, with Infuse Light changes there's been a significant increase in the Risk, which is pretty much equal to the High Reward now.

    If Revenant looks OP finishing off escaping targets, that's because that's what the Shiro Stance and Swift Termination is for, however in every other scenario it doesn't do much fit but as a Power slot.

    I agree that Deathstrike is too fast and should be slowed down if it can get Slow and Chill back, I also agree that Duelist Preparation should be brought back as a counter attack damage skill that would keep current damage in but cannot be used senseless like it is right now. It will tone down damage on Revenant as a result without nerfing it in anyway.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I see plenty of mirages in plat - they are doing fine.

    Meh~

  • Stallic.2397Stallic.2397 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 3, 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Shave more damage off of weaver?

    What's left to shave? We've hit fire weaver, lightning rod, fresh air, staff. The most viable of the bunch is fire weaver, and they're fine after the most recent sustain cut.
    The last thing ele needs is a damage shave. If anything they need a damage buff. They should do more than they do given they have the lowest base health, lowest armor value, and require you to be in melee range to deal the bulk of your damage.

    These factors are why most weavers invest heavily into defense. If they actually had damage to compensate for their squishiness we might start seeing more weavers building offensively, meaning they themselves can be more easily killed.

    Dps Ele has been nerfed enough.

    I forgot that I wanted to point out in my last post, Weaver is fine. So is Core in term of what we should expect, what's not fine is the utility. Out of everything that has been nerfed too hard besides Signets, it's easy to see what still performs. (Signets) They really need to lower most cantrips cooldowns along restoring many of the Arcane features to their old levels so we have can a reason to use them.

    Mist Form and Stone Armor are just too high to be justified with the amount of CC people take, Signet of Air is even competitive with Twist of Fate. Also removing damage from Lightning Flash entirely instead of just shaving it a little hurts he burst potential, same for Electric Discharge, yes they are instand casts but they don't have to be absolutely useless.

    Arcane Blast used to have 3 charges, was indeed strong before hence why they nerfed it but now? 2 charges is weak, might as well go Arcane Wave and that's not everything either, the Immobilize is EXTREMELY weak, 2 seconds barely did it before. 1 second does absolutely nothing. Needs to be restored.

    Power because of poor sustain available is mostly a one trick pony sadly, Condition is definitely not off the tablet just yet though, especially if taking all Signets, Fire is extremely strong.

    Signets are pretty good right now. I use them all the time. But utilities in general do need a buff. Cantrips, conjures, and arcane abilities.

    Before buffing arcane, I would buff Earth first. It's so unused and barely does good condi cleanse even though it's specialized to. Anet should add barrier to the spec, buff stab (especially earth's embrace which is still unusable), and create a better cleanse idea. Diamond skin just isn't good- for any elite specialization. Especially when Cleansing Aura or Cleansing Water has way better synergy. The trait needs a buff/rework.

    Arcane utilities are still bad, even with Elemental surge to lower the CD. Either the condis need buffed or the charges.

    As for Core Ele. It's close to being good, but not there yet. They should really just create a passive that grants any Elemental adept trait to Core Ele in any attunement. So Empowering Flame, Stone Flesh, Zephyr's Speed or Soothing Mist now works in any attunement if you trait into it and you're a core Ele.

    That's all they need to get back into the meta.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    When players from all other classes are universally unanimous in saying "Wow! This class here that I don't play, yeah this is the real balanced one!" it probably points towards that class being underpowered.

    I disagree with this sentiment. They're right in this instance. Mesmer isn't "the real balanced class", as if the other classes all need to have nerfs pushed to them to equalize them against it. it's just finally gotten tapped down to the point where you can make plays against it after having a history of long stretches not being that.

    Since there are bigger windows where you can hit them and see the effects of your damage, it is more engaging to fight them. There are still quite a few mesmers out there that can make you regret getting into a fight with them, but it is exceedingly clear that they know what they are doing. There's also a healthy amount of mesmers in plat, as mentioned above.

    This, followed by the consume plasma nerf to thief, were good moves. I don't entirely agree with the endurance removal for mirage, but the alternative would be reworking grandmasters/cloak mechanic and Anet clearly doesn't want to do that.

    People will probably be more inclined to refer to Mes balance because Mesmer has a history of being egregiously unbalanced and constantly escaping the chopping block.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    now we need to wait for other 8 classes to follow the same rules :D

    Make everyone have only one dodge 🤡

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • FrownyClown.8402FrownyClown.8402 Member ✭✭✭

    Mesmer has great utility for team play. Prob why you see it in ATs and no where else.

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    now we need to wait for other 8 classes to follow the same rules :D

    Make everyone have only one dodge 🤡

    I do not mind giving mirage 2 dodges back, or even three and as long change back the portal, as long as they put a cast time on f1 f2 and f3. F3 only daze once, and f4 does not benefit from the offensive traits.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

    Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

    Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

    Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

    You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

    you make it sound like dodge when CCed is actually insane.
    Meanwhile firebrand gets
    Toughness
    Protection
    Stability
    Aegis
    Pulsing Resistance
    Stun break
    Reflect
    Taunt
    Retaliation
    Swiftness
    Boon convert
    Healing increase
    Healing
    Vigor
    Regeneration
    Burning
    Bleeding
    Damage
    Pull
    Weakness

    First of all, I never hid that I think firebrand is ridiculous as well. The spec gets too much stuff at once, I oftenly stated here on the boards that the tomes should have been a grandmaster choice for firebrand at least, so they don't get all of this stuff at the same time, but actually have to make a choice.

    This being said, all the stuff you listed there are still "conventional mechanics" at least. Yes, they get tons of different boons. But they are still boons... a mechanic that is in the game since launch already and the game was balanced around this.

    Meanwhile "my dodges can ignore your CC" is a new mechanic.
    Anet just is too willing to bend the rules of the game when it comes to mesmer. Sure, it is pretty cool thematically that chronomancer gets to rewind time to reset their health and cooldowns. But they should sometimes start to ask themselves: would such a mechanic actually be healthy for the game, even if it's cool thematically?

    And when it comes to balance for competitive, then being able to dodge while CCed is huge. Other classes have to dodge the CC skill itself to prevent getting CCed and bursted or have to spend a stunbreak if they can't dodge the CC. Mirage on the other hand can simply ignore the consequence of getting hit by CC, since they still get to dodge the burst afterwards. Not to mention that even more power is put into their dodge mechanic by giving them ambushes on top of this.

    Their dodge became so powerful that their thought to nerf it was to simply give you less access to it... by reducing endurance.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Kodama.6453 dodging while controlled is not a power-full mechanic, most classes pack so much ways to ignore CC they dont get stunned at all
    be it either more evasion to avoid the CC or more ways to remove it on top of stability, I sure as hell dont feel CC on core ranger while I do feel it on mirage, even more so if I just run blink and no SoM.
    When it boils down to it most mesmer have 0 stab, and 1 - 2 ways to remove CC, out of which 1 is used to engage/rotate anyways.
    While all other builds run 2-3 ways to remove CC, often times on top of stability, so while technically you can dodge while controlled, every time you are forced to do it, other class would have simply removed it or not get stunned in the first place.
    With chrono I agree, chronophantasma, danger time and csplit are so stupid it hurts my mind.

    You act like mirage has just mirage cloak while all other classes have more defensive mechanics on top of their dodge to prevent CC.

    You have evasion frames. You got vigor for more dodges. You got distortion. You got deceptions, which add another source of mirage cloak through the mirrors (as far as I can tell, the healing skill for example is currently meta). And there surely are more defensive mechanics I am not mentioning right now.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:
    Mirage is the most balanced it has ever been right now, its just not a faceroll build anymore. You actually have to know how to combo skills together and not waste cds.

    When players from all other classes are universally unanimous in saying "Wow! This class here that I don't play, yeah this is the real balanced one!" it probably points towards that class being underpowered.

    What is the alternative? Buff mirage back to its old overpowered state where a brand new player could mindlessly spam and win duels vs most people? That is how we get low skill metas with builds like scourge, burn guard, MM necro, condi thief, condi herald... etc. Mesmer has a high skill cap and there is a large range of player effectiveness with it. That is a very good thing, and should be the goal for balancing every class.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    Power Mirage feels super clunky and is unfun for how heavily you handicap yourself. You can still GS combo but you need dom and dueling to have any semblance of effective damage, and the mirage line offers virtually nothing and takes away an evade.. And even then core is only carried by Chaos line stealth while having less on demand stealth and evade than thief (and ranger for that matter), while being more constrained with burst frequency and in combat options than a thief.

  • @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    @Kodama.6453 dodging while controlled is not a power-full mechanic, most classes pack so much ways to ignore CC they dont get stunned at all
    be it either more evasion to avoid the CC or more ways to remove it on top of stability, I sure as hell dont feel CC on core ranger while I do feel it on mirage, even more so if I just run blink and no SoM.
    When it boils down to it most mesmer have 0 stab, and 1 - 2 ways to remove CC, out of which 1 is used to engage/rotate anyways.
    While all other builds run 2-3 ways to remove CC, often times on top of stability, so while technically you can dodge while controlled, every time you are forced to do it, other class would have simply removed it or not get stunned in the first place.
    With chrono I agree, chronophantasma, danger time and csplit are so stupid it hurts my mind.

    Mesmer can also use 3 utility skills as breakstuns, so? Why they have "4th stunbreak" via dodge alone?
    That "dodge while controlled" is one of the most broken mechanics in the entire game, it's not just "ignore cc", but a "i can screw and don't get punished for it", which is disgusting. Ye ye, you can use it for "attacking", but you don't have to use it offensively, do you? Mirage is Mesmer+ after all, so all skills work the same way...
    I though that Chronomancer was A-net "peak" of most broken designs, but then PoF happened...

    Classes have been able to instantly avoid damage while stunned in billions of different ways since the start of the game.

    Guardians can Aegis while stunned in multiple ways. Necros have always been able to shroud and instant cast fear while stunned. Rangers tend to be impossible to stun by default as they run around with absurd uptimes stability since the start of the game.

    Literally every class is loaded up with multiple "I can screw up and don't get punished for it" mechanics. I mean heck, what is stability as a stat except a boon that literally exists to say "I can screw up and don't get punished for it". It's always been this way for every class and if mesmer got the treatment other classes got on their utilities then stuff like Mirror Images and Signet of Midnight would do stuff like at 5 stability and swiftness for 10 seconds too and damage to boot.

    Literally every class can use evasion the "v" while being under CC without any kind of stab or resistance to negate incoming dmg, right? OH WAIT, only Mirage can do that! Do you even understand what you try to compare here or not? Every other class MUST use utility or f1-f5 skills(if possible) to BREAKSTUN to avoid the "whatever following kitten", but MIRAGE only need to press "v" and dandy.
    I'm pretty sure that MIRAGE is still able to equip utility skills with "BREAK STUN" to negate CCs, unless somehow MIRAGE traitline mechanically removes all "BREAK STUN" from all other traits/utilities/shatter/whatever of Mesmer class, which is not the case, right?

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    warrior is already strong as kitten, dont know what you want to buff.

    Not saying it’s dumpster tier, but strong af? No way.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    warrior is already strong as kitten, dont know what you want to buff.

    Not saying it’s dumpster tier, but strong af? No way.

    yes way, warrior is really kitten strong one of the best side-noders rn

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

    Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

    Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

    Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

    You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

    main reason chrono is good in pve is alacrity not cs

    // Yanim

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    warrior is already strong as kitten, dont know what you want to buff.

    Not saying it’s dumpster tier, but strong af? No way.

    yes way, warrior is really kitten strong one of the best side-noders rn

    Well it can’t hold node, not much node presence, has to kite off point to sustain, and struggles to escape getting plussed. Pretty sure there are superior options.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

    Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

    Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

    Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

    You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

    main reason chrono is good in pve is alacrity not cs

    Really? You think the fact that chronomancer can double summon phantasms (which are some of their highest damage skills) with chronophantasma and that they can then double all their dps skills again with chronoshift isn't one of the major reasons why this class is top performer in dps?

    Oh, and btw, benchmarks are usually recorded under the condition of permanent alacrity anyway. So alacrity obviously can't be the reason why power chronomancer has the highest benchmark of all.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    warrior is already strong as kitten, dont know what you want to buff.

    Not saying it’s dumpster tier, but strong af? No way.

    yes way, warrior is really kitten strong one of the best side-noders rn

    Well it can’t hold node, not much node presence, has to kite off point to sustain, and struggles to escape getting plussed. Pretty sure there are superior options.

    its amazing how everything you just said is wrong

  • ProverbsofHell.2307ProverbsofHell.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ProverbsofHell.2307 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

    Surprisingly.

    Now if we can do this:

    1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
    2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
    3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
    4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

    Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

    warrior is already strong as kitten, dont know what you want to buff.

    Not saying it’s dumpster tier, but strong af? No way.

    yes way, warrior is really kitten strong one of the best side-noders rn

    Well it can’t hold node, not much node presence, has to kite off point to sustain, and struggles to escape getting plussed. Pretty sure there are superior options.

    its amazing how everything you just said is wrong

    and yet you don't even attempt to make a case for why you think so. There are sidenoders with superior range and mobility to warrior, and warrior itself lacks any skills that cover node.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

    Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

    Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

    Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

    You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

    main reason chrono is good in pve is alacrity not cs

    Really? You think the fact that chronomancer can double summon phantasms (which are some of their highest damage skills) with chronophantasma and that they can then double all their dps skills again with chronoshift isn't one of the major reasons why this class is top performer in dps?

    Oh, and btw, benchmarks are usually recorded under the condition of permanent alacrity anyway. So alacrity obviously can't be the reason why power chronomancer has the highest benchmark of all.

    oh sorry, i said "main reason chrono is good in pve". when it comes to dps, chronophantasma is the main culprit (a trait that should be removed, which i've said literally for years).

    what is conventional or not is irrelevant and stupid thing to say. is perfect stealth with no drawback a conventional mechanic? how about necro having more than double the effective hp of other classes? how about thief being able to use their skills multiple times with zero cooldown? how about rev thief guard being able to teleport burst you through walls. who knows - and who cares.

    // Yanim

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mirage needs both its dodge rolls back though.

    Find a different way to balance it. It doesn't enough front loaded defenses to survive any serious offense at this point.

    It isn't just about dodge rolls, there's Jaunt, Blink, Stealth, target breaking, visual clutter, rng dazes, F4.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mirage needs both its dodge rolls back though.

    Find a different way to balance it. It doesn't enough front loaded defenses to survive any serious offense at this point.

    It isn't just about dodge rolls, there's Jaunt, Blink, Stealth, target breaking, visual clutter, rng dazes, F4.

    Indeed. But see, they can't stay on a node anymore with that stuff. To use all that stealth and teleport disengage, they have to functionally retreat and sacrifice the node to do it. This doesn't work well for Mirage in conquest.

    Coming from someone who runs a strong blindside, similar to the kind of DPS pressure laid by a good Power Shiro, I notice lately that Chronomancers actually survive vicious offensive onslaughts better than Mirage. Which is unfortunate because being "dodgey" was kind of the point of Mirage. Seems like I notice that this happens because Chrono still has 2 front loaded dodges to survive a burst in conjunction with the other mechanisms it has for CCs and resets and counter offensive pressure. At this point Mirage is just missing too much of its original defense. They also removed the amulets that made Mirage good in the past.

    Earlier I said that "Mes/Chrono/Mirage is in the best place it's been in a long time" but really I should have been more careful in how I said that. It's really just Chrono that's in a good place and functionally balanced imo. Core Mes and Mirage are hurting. Good Chronos are dangerous right now though.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mirage needs both its dodge rolls back though.

    Find a different way to balance it. It doesn't enough front loaded defenses to survive any serious offense at this point.

    It isn't just about dodge rolls, there's Jaunt, Blink, Stealth, target breaking, visual clutter, rng dazes, F4.

    Indeed. But see, they can't stay on a node anymore with that stuff. To use all that stealth and teleport disengage, they have to functionally retreat and sacrifice the node to do it. This doesn't work well for Mirage in conquest.

    Coming from someone who runs a strong blindside, similar to the kind of DPS pressure laid by a good Power Shiro, I notice lately that Chronomancers actually survive vicious offensive onslaughts better than Mirage. Which is unfortunate because being "dodgey" was kind of the point of Mirage. Seems like I notice that this happens because Chrono still has 2 front loaded dodges to survive a burst in conjunction with the other mechanisms it has for CCs and resets and counter offensive pressure. At this point Mirage is just missing too much of its original defense. They also removed the amulets that made Mirage good in the past.

    Earlier I said that "Mes/Chrono/Mirage is in the best place it's been in a long time" but really I should have been more careful in how I said that. It's really just Chrono that's in a good place and functionally balanced imo. Core Mes and Mirage are hurting. Good Chronos are dangerous right now though.

    Mirrors should be laid around the node to be used, if anything. Mirage or Mesmer in general outside of the old chrono is not something I've ever seen stand on node outside of full signets Chrono. They're good and kitting around anyway because standing on node is not gonna help deceive opponents.

    When they had two dodges, it mean for not only a bit of sustain but also significant damage which was part of the bigger problem, asking players to stunlock a mirage is pratically useless with all those tools because you never can punish.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mirage needs both its dodge rolls back though.

    Find a different way to balance it. It doesn't enough front loaded defenses to survive any serious offense at this point.

    It isn't just about dodge rolls, there's Jaunt, Blink, Stealth, target breaking, visual clutter, rng dazes, F4.

    which rng dazes?

    // Yanim

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    which rng dazes?

    Can just guess that he meant Chaos Storm with that, but this skill doesn't daze randomly anymore, but always at the first strike.

    However, even stronger than a random daze, mesmer has access to instant dazes. Instant ranged CC is a pretty strong mechanic, considering that it basically makes it impossible for you to use your healing skill as long as you are not buffed with stability.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    Mirage needs both its dodge rolls back though.

    Find a different way to balance it. It doesn't enough front loaded defenses to survive any serious offense at this point.

    It isn't just about dodge rolls, there's Jaunt, Blink, Stealth, target breaking, visual clutter, rng dazes, F4.

    which rng dazes?

    Clones pathing inconsistency can sometimes lead to extended durations of dazes or even interrupts that may ruin an entire fight for someone.

    If it was me, I wouldn't have daze shatters chase anyone to avoid these ridiculous lucky events. Only shatter on the spot and be done with it.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz