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Entropo.1524

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Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

Surprisingly.

Now if we can do this:

  1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
  2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
  3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
  4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

Surprisingly.

Now if we can do this:

  1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
  2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
  3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
  4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

warrior is already strong as fuck, dont know what you want to buff.

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@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

Surprisingly.

Now if we can do this:

  1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
  2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
  3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
  4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

Objectively, even if you address those 4 points, you'd find yourself with a whole new set of points to address. The "next in-line OP builds" are always biding their time, waiting for their time to shine.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Mes/Chrono/Mirage is actually in the best spot it's been... ever... I'd say.

Surprisingly.

Now if we can do this:

  1. Buff War a tiiiiny bit
  2. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Revs
  3. Shave a weeeee bit of damage off Weaver
  4. Address Rune of Sanct and Blood Bank on Scourge

Honestly we'd have the most balanced meta we've seen in years.

Just want to point out that Warrior general damage is much higher than Revenant if you care to use something else than Main Hand Dagger (Reason being if Dagger did Axe damage, why even bother).

Lowering Revenant damage won't change the fact that players aren't careful for their approach to bursting which is Quick but also the only thing they have. That's like asking to not have any punish if someone eats the whole thing.

Deathstrike/Chilling Isolation don't do anymore damage than Warrior Axe overall Cleave and latter options to which DS depends on a higher CD, with Infuse Light changes there's been a significant increase in the Risk, which is pretty much equal to the High Reward now.

If Revenant looks OP finishing off escaping targets, that's because that's what the Shiro Stance and Swift Termination is for, however in every other scenario it doesn't do much fit but as a Power slot.

I agree that Deathstrike is too fast and should be slowed down if it can get Slow and Chill back, I also agree that Duelist Preparation should be brought back as a counter attack damage skill that would keep current damage in but cannot be used senseless like it is right now. It will tone down damage on Revenant as a result without nerfing it in anyway.

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Shave more damage off of weaver?

What's left to shave? We've hit fire weaver, lightning rod, fresh air, staff. The most viable of the bunch is fire weaver, and they're fine after the most recent sustain cut.The last thing ele needs is a damage shave. If anything they need a damage buff. They should do more than they do given they have the lowest base health, lowest armor value, and require you to be in melee range to deal the bulk of your damage.

These factors are why most weavers invest heavily into defense. If they actually had damage to compensate for their squishiness we might start seeing more weavers building offensively, meaning they themselves can be more easily killed.

Dps Ele has been nerfed enough.

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@Kuma.1503 said:Shave more damage off of weaver?

What's left to shave? We've hit fire weaver, lightning rod, fresh air, staff. The most viable of the bunch is fire weaver, and they're fine after the most recent sustain cut.The last thing ele needs is a damage shave. If anything they need a damage buff. They should do more than they do given they have the lowest base health, lowest armor value, and require you to be in melee range to deal the bulk of your damage.

These factors are why most weavers invest heavily into defense. If they actually had damage to compensate for their squishiness we might start seeing more weavers building offensively, meaning they themselves can be more easily killed.

Dps Ele has been nerfed enough.I forgot that I wanted to point out in my last post, Weaver is fine. So is Core in term of what we should expect, what's not fine is the utility. Out of everything that has been nerfed too hard besides Signets, it's easy to see what still performs. (Signets) They really need to lower most cantrips cooldowns along restoring many of the Arcane features to their old levels so we have can a reason to use them.

Mist Form and Stone Armor are just too high to be justified with the amount of CC people take, Signet of Air is even competitive with Twist of Fate. Also removing damage from Lightning Flash entirely instead of just shaving it a little hurts the burst potential, same for Electric Discharge, yes they are instant casts but they don't have to be absolutely useless.

Arcane Blast used to have 3 charges, was indeed strong before hence why they nerfed it but now? 2 charges is weak, might as well go Arcane Wave and that's not everything either, the Immobilize is EXTREMELY weak, 2 seconds barely did it before. 1 second does absolutely nothing. Needs to be restored.

Power because of poor sustain available is mostly a one trick pony sadly, Condition is definitely not off the table just yet though, especially if taking all Signets, Fire is extremely strong.

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@Shao.7236 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Shave
more
damage off of weaver?

What's left to shave? We've hit fire weaver, lightning rod, fresh air, staff. The most viable of the bunch is fire weaver, and they're fine after the most recent sustain cut.The last thing ele needs is a damage shave. If anything they need a damage buff. They should do more than they do given they have the lowest base health, lowest armor value, and require you to be in melee range to deal the bulk of your damage.

These factors are why most weavers invest heavily into defense. If they actually had damage to compensate for their squishiness we might start seeing more weavers building offensively, meaning they themselves can be more easily killed.

Dps Ele has been nerfed enough.I forgot that I wanted to point out in my last post, Weaver is fine. So is Core in term of what we should expect, what's not fine is the utility. Out of everything that has been nerfed too hard besides Signets, it's easy to see what still performs. (Signets) They really need to lower most cantrips cooldowns along restoring many of the Arcane features to their old levels so we have can a reason to use them.

Mist Form and Stone Armor are just too high to be justified with the amount of CC people take, Signet of Air is even competitive with Twist of Fate. Also removing damage from Lightning Flash entirely instead of just shaving it a little hurts he burst potential, same for Electric Discharge, yes they are instand casts but they don't have to be absolutely useless.

Arcane Blast used to have 3 charges, was indeed strong before hence why they nerfed it but now? 2 charges is weak, might as well go Arcane Wave and that's not everything either, the Immobilize is EXTREMELY weak, 2 seconds barely did it before. 1 second does absolutely nothing. Needs to be restored.

Power because of poor sustain available is mostly a one trick pony sadly, Condition is definitely not off the tablet just yet though, especially if taking all Signets, Fire is extremely strong.

Signets are pretty good right now. I use them all the time. But utilities in general do need a buff. Cantrips, conjures, and arcane abilities.

Before buffing arcane, I would buff Earth first. It's so unused and barely does good condi cleanse even though it's specialized to. Anet should add barrier to the spec, buff stab (especially earth's embrace which is still unusable), and create a better cleanse idea. Diamond skin just isn't good- for any elite specialization. Especially when Cleansing Aura or Cleansing Water has way better synergy. The trait needs a buff/rework.

Arcane utilities are still bad, even with Elemental surge to lower the CD. Either the condis need buffed or the charges.

As for Core Ele. It's close to being good, but not there yet. They should really just create a passive that grants any Elemental adept trait to Core Ele in any attunement. So Empowering Flame, Stone Flesh, Zephyr's Speed or Soothing Mist now works in any attunement if you trait into it and you're a core Ele.

That's all they need to get back into the meta.

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@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:Mirage is the most balanced it has ever been right now, its just not a faceroll build anymore. You actually have to know how to combo skills together and not waste cds.

When players from all other classes are universally unanimous in saying "Wow! This class here that I don't play, yeah this is the real balanced one!" it probably points towards that class being underpowered.

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@"mortrialus.3062" said:

When players from all other classes are universally unanimous in saying "Wow! This class here that I don't play, yeah this is the real balanced one!" it probably points towards that class being underpowered.

I disagree with this sentiment. They're right in this instance. Mesmer isn't "the real balanced class", as if the other classes all need to have nerfs pushed to them to equalize them against it. it's just finally gotten tapped down to the point where you can make plays against it after having a history of long stretches not being that.

Since there are bigger windows where you can hit them and see the effects of your damage, it is more engaging to fight them. There are still quite a few mesmers out there that can make you regret getting into a fight with them, but it is exceedingly clear that they know what they are doing. There's also a healthy amount of mesmers in plat, as mentioned above.

This, followed by the consume plasma nerf to thief, were good moves. I don't entirely agree with the endurance removal for mirage, but the alternative would be reworking grandmasters/cloak mechanic and Anet clearly doesn't want to do that.

People will probably be more inclined to refer to Mes balance because Mesmer has a history of being egregiously unbalanced and constantly escaping the chopping block.

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Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

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@"Kodama.6453" said:Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them the best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do twice?

Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

you make it sound like dodge when CCed is actually insane.Meanwhile firebrand getsToughnessProtectionStabilityAegisPulsing ResistanceStun breakReflectTauntRetaliationSwiftnessBoon convertHealing increaseHealingVigorRegenerationBurningBleedingDamagePullWeakness

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:Honestly, what are people expecting when it comes to balancing mesmer?

Anet keeps putting the most ridiculous effects onto this class. It is the one they are most "thinking outside of the box", which oftenly ends up with mechanics that are extremely hard to balance.

Chronomancer: Has the ability to reset all their cooldowns and health to a previous point. This mechanic is responsible for making them
the
best dps class in PvE by a large margin. It also makes them great tanks, btw. Who would have thought that it is really strong to be able to do everything your class can do
twice
?

Mirage: Gets the unique ability to dodge while being CCed, no other class can do this without having to invest a stunbreak.

You want mesmer to not get nerfed over and over again? Make Anet stop putting insane new mechanics onto that class and let them use "conventional" mechanics for once.

you make it sound like dodge when CCed is actually insane.Meanwhile firebrand getsToughnessProtectionStabilityAegisPulsing ResistanceStun breakReflectTauntRetaliationSwiftnessBoon convertHealing increaseHealingVigorRegenerationBurningBleedingDamagePullWeakness

First of all, I never hid that I think firebrand is ridiculous as well. The spec gets too much stuff at once, I oftenly stated here on the boards that the tomes should have been a grandmaster choice for firebrand at least, so they don't get all of this stuff at the same time, but actually have to make a choice.

This being said, all the stuff you listed there are still "conventional mechanics" at least. Yes, they get tons of different boons. But they are still boons... a mechanic that is in the game since launch already and the game was balanced around this.

Meanwhile "my dodges can ignore your CC" is a new mechanic.Anet just is too willing to bend the rules of the game when it comes to mesmer. Sure, it is pretty cool thematically that chronomancer gets to rewind time to reset their health and cooldowns. But they should sometimes start to ask themselves: would such a mechanic actually be healthy for the game, even if it's cool thematically?

And when it comes to balance for competitive, then being able to dodge while CCed is huge. Other classes have to dodge the CC skill itself to prevent getting CCed and bursted or have to spend a stunbreak if they can't dodge the CC. Mirage on the other hand can simply ignore the consequence of getting hit by CC, since they still get to dodge the burst afterwards. Not to mention that even more power is put into their dodge mechanic by giving them ambushes on top of this.

Their dodge became so powerful that their thought to nerf it was to simply give you less access to it... by reducing endurance.

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@Kodama.6453 dodging while controlled is not a power-full mechanic, most classes pack so much ways to ignore CC they dont get stunned at allbe it either more evasion to avoid the CC or more ways to remove it on top of stability, I sure as hell dont feel CC on core ranger while I do feel it on mirage, even more so if I just run blink and no SoM.When it boils down to it most mesmer have 0 stab, and 1 - 2 ways to remove CC, out of which 1 is used to engage/rotate anyways.While all other builds run 2-3 ways to remove CC, often times on top of stability, so while technically you can dodge while controlled, every time you are forced to do it, other class would have simply removed it or not get stunned in the first place.With chrono I agree, chronophantasma, danger time and csplit are so stupid it hurts my mind.

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