Stuns seem a little much here lately — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Stuns seem a little much here lately

DaVid Darksoul.4985DaVid Darksoul.4985 Member ✭✭✭

Have any changes been made to stuns? They seem pretty prevalent and for classes like Necro overwhelming.

Adversity is the medium thru which strength and greatness are forged.

Comments

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not that I can think of. You may be experiencing a rise in Immobilize-heavy builds in the meta?

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    Stun,immo,stun,stun,stun,immo,stun,stun,
    down,gg. Tyanet

  • frareanselm.1925frareanselm.1925 Member ✭✭✭

    stun is not too much when the skill that inflict the stun make zero damage. Stun+damage is what would be overpowered.

  • Excursion.9752Excursion.9752 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stun breakers and cleanses are your friends. WvW is like a dark alley in the middle of the night.... Don't want to be caught alone.

                                                              There is a 50% chance you will not agree with me and a 50% chance I will not agree with you
    
  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 2, 2021

    I don't know your class well, but isn't cc basically the only way to put down the super tanky condi heavy variants? I guess, put another way, there are some super lethal and/or tanky necro builds out there and I wonder if slotting more stunbreaks to deal with all the cc is possible, even if it would rightly come with a cost of reduced lethality or general sustain.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svarty.8019 said:
    It's like 2002 all over again.

    Come on now. Star Wars Episode II wasnt that bad.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the crazy cc-spam started in 2020, funnily after they started to "fix" cc skills by stripping most dmg from them.

    this happened, because they additionally also nerfed several sources of stab-provinding skills, therefore cc-spamming had a far easier way to disable smaller numbers of player + anyone without a lot of stunbreaks or firebrands nearby completely, for big amounts of time.

    so yeah, basically another big jump into the wrong direction, by a completely clueless balance team (or some drunken hamster working for anet) ... doing random things and selling it as "bALanCe", gg no re

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    the crazy cc-spam started in 2020, funnily after they started to "fix" cc skills by stripping most dmg from them.

    this happened, because they additionally also nerfed several sources of stab-provinding skills, therefore cc-spamming had a far easier way to disable smaller numbers of player + anyone without a lot of stunbreaks or firebrands nearby completely, for big amounts of time.

    so yeah, basically another big jump into the wrong direction, by a completely clueless balance team (or some drunken hamster working for anet) ... doing random things and selling it as "bALanCe", gg no re

    I miss the old days when stability just meant you couldn't be cc'd, and strips/corrupts/steals weren't as wide spread (I can't even remember if stab could be taken, it happened so rarely). Sure, individual stab didn't necessarily last as long as it might now, but it allowed skilled groups of 10-15 take on 40-50 person blobs like mighty heroes.

    Also, RIP hammer warrior.... :(

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    hammer spellbreaker is still the metabuild :P the dmg is gone surely tho, yeah.

    but that hurts the gameplay of all classes nearly. the overconfident but clueless balancing people completely missed that they would make everything far more narrow-minded by destroying basically 30% of all used skills (roughly) with their "5 years too late emergency nerf package".

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021

    The reason why you feel like there is a overwhelming influx of stuns is because they removed nearly all stab from necro aside from reaper, lichform, and scourge which only gives 1 stack. Also the fact that necros pretty much cant get away because the class itself is designed to be a tank or turret, being cc chained is not uncommon. Letting a necro freecast is just asking for death.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021

    @Salt Mode.3780 said:
    The reason why you feel like there is a overwhelming influx of stuns is because they removed nearly all stab from necro aside from reaper, lichform, and scourge which only gives 1 stack. Also the fact that necros pretty much cant get away because the class itself is designed to be a tank or turret, being cc chained is not uncommon. Letting a necro freecast is just asking for death.

    Thats like saying the reason there are so many permastealth thieves is because they made gyros into wells.

    It makes absolutely zero sense.

    The actual reason there are so much stuns is because of the minizerg zerg meta that spread to roaming. In a zerg vs zerg fight there is tons and tons of stab, but for the minizerg vs roamers this become completely loopsided. Instead of groups with 3+ roaming builds that can fight independantly and make sacrificies to build sustain, mobility and damage, the minizerg will have at least one firebrand/scrapper that can carry up to 5 people, another of them can go full stunlock build and the rest can go full dps (usually only like 20% of the group), which they then use to lock down and single target focus when they run down people 3+v1.

    TL;DR minstrels is the root of all evil.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭

    Actually as a roamer on a class that has mobility stuns dont seem to affect me much at all. So sorry I personally dont see the increase on CC because zergs have been around regardless. What I was trying to say is as a necro it is easier to get CC locked regardless of zerg or no zerg.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not really, though I usually run stability.

    How many stunbreaks do you folks normally run; I usually have on average of 2 on my builds; except Scrapper that only has 1 (but it is Elixir S though)

  • Faolain.2374Faolain.2374 Member ✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021

    It’s more so that this is how big groups cheese much smaller groups that they can’t actually fight. I’d say that since the stab change ( which wasn’t even that drastic?) there are people playing builds specifically to stun lock smaller groups since these kind of builds would be near useless in equal numbered/outnumbered fights.

    When you’re fighting 5v10+ and suddenly you see people playing sketchy builds like full tank, full cc scrapper with absolutely zero damage, multiple thieves running scorpion wire, necro running spectral grasp/ring, minstrel spell breakers running rampage+stomp+kick+bulls rush and ofc chrono, you might as well just take your hands off the keyboard. This is my experience on EU and has been for a while now on near every server. These special players running full cc builds while outnumbering are the ones basically killing roaming, there is basically no counter to it unless you take some form of support otherwise you just can’t move/press buttons.

    Just to specify, these are not support builds, these are builds specifically to tank the damage and just spam cc.

    It baffles me that people hate the fact that roaming groups now take firebrands, but the people complaining about boon ball are the exact reason why people play boon ball. There are absolutely zero ways to play when you have 10+ roamers ganking with the builds above.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArchonWing.9480 said:
    Not really, though I usually run stability.

    How many stunbreaks do you folks normally run; I usually have on average of 2 on my builds; except Scrapper that only has 1 (but it is Elixir S though)

    When I run Berserker I have 5 stun breaks on my bar :wink:

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021

    @Salt Mode.3780 said:
    Actually as a roamer on a class that has mobility stuns dont seem to affect me much at all. So sorry I personally dont see the increase on CC because zergs have been around regardless. What I was trying to say is as a necro it is easier to get CC locked regardless of zerg or no zerg.

    as necro, u have trail of anguish, core necro isn't really used, reaper has to take more care when not in reaper form. that's about it... the stab removing happened to more classes. i am nearly sure that the healing skills of herald had built-in stab when i started playing.
    also, its the same with herald or weaver, if u let them freecast its your own fault. that is no argument however for having like a stab:cc relation of like 1:20 on everthing that's not firebrand or scrapper :P

    @Faolain.2374 not drastic it may seem, but it is the obvious trigger of this. the easier gank targets have less stab and therefore can get cc-chained without much effort. that's it. this is highly abuseable, and therefore ppl do it.

    the receipe to 100% beat tryhard smallgroups: when u play 5 vs 15 u just won't win either way in most cases. five players is basically a group of a zerg. in that comp, they can tank 10 ppl likely, but only if those are not experienced enough. like if there are 4/12 very new to the game and get cought off guard and die fast, its 5v8... then it's sorta clear who will win. pulls are having a crazy range and not all are avoidable, depending on your graphics settings. the small groups will try to fish for kills there, if u understand that, u can fight them better. they wait for ppl to yolo in into them in small numbers and couldn't sustain a full push.

    by the way, if u mean 35-50 people groups of two colors killing one smaller group of 20-30 of the other color first, then it is bc they fear they might get doublepushed. a 20ish group is able to dish out valid dmg yet. on the right flank, they can farm two 45 ish groups that are throwing each other with poo.

    complaints about boonball are a joke. roll a necro, make a scourge... try it. learn it. then you'll love to see boonballs, it's basically free real bags.

    @Dawdler.8521 minstrel does not matter, it matters only in long fights or against big bombs. there's probably like 10 other bulky stat combos that could make scrapper and firebrand work pretty similar. would just make it weaker in smallscale. and more vulnerable to the yet overpowered glass cannon cancerbuilds that all the smallscale gankergroups run.

    @ArchonWing.9480 well, on scourge i think i have not even two stab sources. i run the mender pvp scourge for the memes lately. gankers hate that they cannot gank it , in 90% of all cases.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kamikharzeeh.8016 said:
    complaints about boonball are a joke. roll a necro, make a scourge... try it. learn it. then you'll love to see boonballs, it's basically free real bags.

    Because the zerg meta is a myth huh.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Maybe Stand your Ground should be a special WvW skill that every profession has access when it is in WvW :)

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    it's more about having small personal stab as skill or traits passives (like warrior has on the meta healbreaker set) ... stand your ground isn't more useful than the other self-stab methods that allclasses have.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Though 5 sec fears are annoying as well and they are being used by simply having the counter to them to start with (Corrupt stab). Wvw is a hard cc mess soft cc are a bit better but they are too on and off with the resistance boon.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021

    @Faolain.2374 said:
    It’s more so that this is how big groups cheese much smaller groups that they can’t actually fight. I’d say that since the stab change ( which wasn’t even that drastic?) there are people playing builds specifically to stun lock smaller groups since these kind of builds would be near useless in equal numbered/outnumbered fights.

    When you’re fighting 5v10+ and suddenly you see people playing sketchy builds like full tank, full cc scrapper with absolutely zero damage, multiple thieves running scorpion wire, necro running spectral grasp/ring, minstrel spell breakers running rampage+stomp+kick+bulls rush and ofc chrono, you might as well just take your hands off the keyboard. This is my experience on EU and has been for a while now on near every server. These special players running full cc builds while outnumbering are the ones basically killing roaming, there is basically no counter to it unless you take some form of support otherwise you just can’t move/press buttons.

    Just to specify, these are not support builds, these are builds specifically to tank the damage and just spam cc.

    It baffles me that people hate the fact that roaming groups now take firebrands, but the people complaining about boon ball are the exact reason why people play boon ball. There are absolutely zero ways to play when you have 10+ roamers ganking with the builds above.

    I get what you're saying, but something like Scorpion wire isn't new and likely not there just because of that composition. I've been using Scorpion Wire and have packed a lot of Control for years because treating everyone like they have a break bar to keep their mitigation in check has always been more manageable than being a glass cannon or a bunker. Something that is a quick Projectile for Fields and a possible Interrupt for Leech just makes sense to have most of the time, even if it's not a big hitter it's a reasonable cooldown and ammo fed, and likely that other stuff you mentioned is taken similarly. If you use something and people see it work in any scale fight, you'll see it used around a lot for awhile. Pull someone off a wall to their death after they've plugged a few of yours and someone else will want to do that to.

    I think you'll feel a lot of your list in large zerg fights also.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i mean the full fear necro is more of a meme build honestly. the worst about pulling are mesmers i'd say, while also quickswitch thief packs have unexpected wallpull option and reapers are quite annoying if they run pull (which is quite random, reaper can be anything)

    well, one thing that could been done is to re-forge the old elite skills of the gw2-races. remember the melandru tree form, the balthazar doges etc? all have absurdly large cooldown times and barely any effects. they could be given at least sorta passive effect that procs stab under specific circumstances, then they might have any use at least :P

    (melandru avatar: become big thicc tree, 240 cd, have stab during beeing a useless slow tree, gratz enjoy your existance; hounds of baltzi: 170 sec cd, summon two fire doggos who have barely HP and no dmg output at all and last not very long. nice, u have a long cooldown now for pretty much nothing gained)

  • @kash.9213 said:

    I get what you're saying, but something like Scorpion wire isn't new and likely not there just because of that composition. I've been using Scorpion Wire and have packed a lot of Control for years because treating everyone like they have a break bar to keep their mitigation in check has always been more manageable than being a glass cannon or a bunker. Something that is a quick Projectile for Fields and a possible Interrupt for Leech just makes sense to have most of the time, even if it's not a big hitter it's a reasonable cooldown and ammo fed, and likely that other stuff you mentioned is taken similarly. If you use something and people see it work in any scale fight, you'll see it used around a lot for awhile. Pull someone off a wall to their death after they've plugged a few of yours and someone else will want to do that to.

    I think you'll feel a lot of your list in large zerg fights also.

    I mean I understand some of these skills like Scorpion Wire/Spectral Gasp being used by roamers, but i feel you're missing my point. Since these are not "proper" builds I listed, I doubt anyone is actually running these builds in zergs because as others have mentioned many times, zergs basically have perma stability. People are using these builds specifically to troll and gank. Sure there are variants of chrono, spb and necro being used in that scale but none are full cc builds, surely they are just ineffective builds vs. so many firebrands? I'm talking about builds being made specifically to abuse how stupid cc is in the lower scales, while also outnumbering. Even in a 2vs1, you can have someone running a full cc build who will completely stun lock you, while the other person autos and they will eventually kill you.

    Personally I think CC skills should only be utility skills and removed from all weapon skills. This way only builds specifically made to cc can do so. Its stupid that support firebrand, support tempest or anything can add to the cc lock with zero investment into that playstyle other than having a cc skill(s) on a weapon which wasn't even chosen for that purpose. Although it doesn't really solve the overall cc issue in smaller scales, I think it'd bring a massive change in the amount of cc, since people would specifically have to invest into that playstyle.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Immob druid, moa mesmer, heal/stab firebrand, gyro scrapper, any thief for pull and stomp security, the new 5v1 roamer gank meta!
    Pull, signet of domination stun, immob, moa, all five hit their 1, thief stealth shadowstep stomp, done.
    Psst don't worry mesmers I'm making you meta again with two critical moves in that combo!
    Listen, I know it'll be a tough fight, ok, but I assure you that even that perma evade thief, or a perma stealth deadeye, will not get away!
    Trust me on this!

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    All Guilds Carried By Boon Ball [BQQN]

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faolain.2374 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    I get what you're saying, but something like Scorpion wire isn't new and likely not there just because of that composition. I've been using Scorpion Wire and have packed a lot of Control for years because treating everyone like they have a break bar to keep their mitigation in check has always been more manageable than being a glass cannon or a bunker. Something that is a quick Projectile for Fields and a possible Interrupt for Leech just makes sense to have most of the time, even if it's not a big hitter it's a reasonable cooldown and ammo fed, and likely that other stuff you mentioned is taken similarly. If you use something and people see it work in any scale fight, you'll see it used around a lot for awhile. Pull someone off a wall to their death after they've plugged a few of yours and someone else will want to do that to.

    I think you'll feel a lot of your list in large zerg fights also.

    I mean I understand some of these skills like Scorpion Wire/Spectral Gasp being used by roamers, but i feel you're missing my point. Since these are not "proper" builds I listed, I doubt anyone is actually running these builds in zergs because as others have mentioned many times, zergs basically have perma stability. People are using these builds specifically to troll and gank. Sure there are variants of chrono, spb and necro being used in that scale but none are full cc builds, surely they are just ineffective builds vs. so many firebrands? I'm talking about builds being made specifically to abuse how stupid cc is in the lower scales, while also outnumbering. Even in a 2vs1, you can have someone running a full cc build who will completely stun lock you, while the other person autos and they will eventually kill you.

    Personally I think CC skills should only be utility skills and removed from all weapon skills. This way only builds specifically made to cc can do so. Its stupid that support firebrand, support tempest or anything can add to the cc lock with zero investment into that playstyle other than having a cc skill(s) on a weapon which wasn't even chosen for that purpose. Although it doesn't really solve the overall cc issue in smaller scales, I think it'd bring a massive change in the amount of cc, since people would specifically have to invest into that playstyle.

    I pack a lot of control every day for zerg fights. The only way to break up anything of any size is to dismantle it. We can call it an abuse of a build, but everyone is abusing it, not just roamers. Hit up any siege or large open back and forth and take notice of what's killing proper builds on walls or bunkered up and what's being used as a clutch play and at what part of the other sides meta comp when that side gets pushed. Maybe some people are building specifically for some zergs meta still but they have to get babysat. I'm not too worried about it really, cc is a lot more fun then standing in a ball of light until another ball of light runs over you, but they could maybe re-add the old short duration cc immunity or something, unless I'm thinking of a different game.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    I pack a lot of control every day for zerg fights. The only way to break up anything of any size is to dismantle it. We can call it an abuse of a build, but everyone is abusing it, not just roamers. Hit up any siege or large open back and forth and take notice of what's killing proper builds on walls or bunkered up and what's being used as a clutch play and at what part of the other sides meta comp when that side gets pushed. Maybe some people are building specifically for some zergs meta still but they have to get babysat. I'm not too worried about it really, cc is a lot more fun then standing in a ball of light until another ball of light runs over you, but they could maybe re-add the old short duration cc immunity or something, unless I'm thinking of a different game.

    One person using Scorpion wire is hardly dismantling a zerg. It sounds like more suicide risk for you than effective for your zerg. Last I checked thief wasn’t meta in zergs anyway?

    Frankly you’re just pulling single targets into your zerg to gank, which is basically the issue in smallscale, but not an issue or even effective in bigger scales? 10 people all dedicated to it, in a scale which naturally has less counters for it makes it really cancer. You say everyone is using it, but is there an actual build in the zerg meta specifically the stun lock? Most likely not since firebrand exists, and for a pretty good reason. Is there a single solo roaming build which specifically tries to stun lock? most likely not since it’d lack damage.
    The play style of full cc builds is specifically to gank groups which aren’t big enough to have enough stab to withstand it, (which I guess links back to stab nerfs someone mentioned above) which then forces groups to run with more firebrands just so they can play the game. For how easy this playstyle is, it’s quite disgusting how effective it can be, especially when already outnumbering.

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 15, 2021

    @Faolain.2374 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    I pack a lot of control every day for zerg fights. The only way to break up anything of any size is to dismantle it. We can call it an abuse of a build, but everyone is abusing it, not just roamers. Hit up any siege or large open back and forth and take notice of what's killing proper builds on walls or bunkered up and what's being used as a clutch play and at what part of the other sides meta comp when that side gets pushed. Maybe some people are building specifically for some zergs meta still but they have to get babysat. I'm not too worried about it really, cc is a lot more fun then standing in a ball of light until another ball of light runs over you, but they could maybe re-add the old short duration cc immunity or something, unless I'm thinking of a different game.

    One person using Scorpion wire is hardly dismantling a zerg. It sounds like more suicide risk for you than effective for your zerg. Last I checked thief wasn’t meta in zergs anyway?

    Frankly you’re just pulling single targets into your zerg to gank, which is basically the issue in smallscale, but not an issue or even effective in bigger scales? 10 people all dedicated to it, in a scale which naturally has less counters for it makes it really cancer. You say everyone is using it, but is there an actual build in the zerg meta specifically the stun lock? Most likely not since firebrand exists, and for a pretty good reason. Is there a single solo roaming build which specifically tries to stun lock? most likely not since it’d lack damage.
    The play style of full cc builds is specifically to gank groups which aren’t big enough to have enough stab to withstand it, (which I guess links back to stab nerfs someone mentioned above) which then forces groups to run with more firebrands just so they can play the game. For how easy this playstyle is, it’s quite disgusting how effective it can be, especially when already outnumbering.

    Okay, keep doing what you're doing. Good luck.

    I used an example, why would you think I plan on taking on a zerg by myself with a Scorpion Wire? Woosh. Take out one of those Firebrand or two and watch the momentum of the fight change or fall a part quickly. You can bake in secondary mods into all of your control and make up that damage, or at least focus it. Why you're not building for your game mode is your business but they don't have any more skill and utility slots than you and they have roughly the same amount of people as you. Or do you mean to say that zerg builds are the only proper builds and way to play?

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • @kash.9213 said:

    Okay, keep doing what you're doing. Good luck.

    I used an example, why would you think I plan on taking on a zerg by myself with a Scorpion Wire? Woosh. Take out one of those Firebrand or two and watch the momentum of the fight change or fall a part quickly. You can bake in secondary mods into all of your control and make up that damage, or at least focus it. Why you're not building for your game mode is your business but they don't have any more skill and utility slots than you and they have roughly the same amount of people as you. Or do you mean to say that zerg builds are the only proper builds and way to play?

    Honestly at this point I can’t tell if you’re just trolling. You literally replied to my first post saying you use scorpion wire, then further go on to talk about what you do in zergs, so I assume you do indeed play this scorpion wire thief build in zergs, which when the zerg meta is considered, no scorpion wire thief is not a proper build there. I could argue and say you are not building for the game mode either, since you are basically picking the scraps in groups of people actually building for the game mode, with stuff like 1). Thief in a zerg and 2). scorpion wire in a situation where there’s permanent stability and permanent reflects?

    Since I have continuously mentioned in literally all my posts in this thread, I highlight how cc is an issue in smaller scales and not bigger scales....for example you don’t see thieves using scorpion wire in zergs (apart from in cases of exaggerated and deluded sense of effectiveness) yet when it’s a big group vs. A much smaller group, multiple thieves changing to that one skill becomes extremely problematic, let alone when someone decides to full cc on something like warrior/scrapper/chrono/reaper/dh/weaver etc. Like I said in my original post, people changing to full cc builds specifically to stun lock entire groups, who they are already outnumbering by quite a lot, is not healthy gameplay.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All stunbreaks used to break a stun should grant 3 seconds of stability or even just straight up cc immunity.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • kash.9213kash.9213 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Faolain.2374 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    Okay, keep doing what you're doing. Good luck.

    I used an example, why would you think I plan on taking on a zerg by myself with a Scorpion Wire? Woosh. Take out one of those Firebrand or two and watch the momentum of the fight change or fall a part quickly. You can bake in secondary mods into all of your control and make up that damage, or at least focus it. Why you're not building for your game mode is your business but they don't have any more skill and utility slots than you and they have roughly the same amount of people as you. Or do you mean to say that zerg builds are the only proper builds and way to play?

    Honestly at this point I can’t tell if you’re just trolling. You literally replied to my first post saying you use scorpion wire, then further go on to talk about what you do in zergs, so I assume you do indeed play this scorpion wire thief build in zergs, which when the zerg meta is considered, no scorpion wire thief is not a proper build there. I could argue and say you are not building for the game mode either, since you are basically picking the scraps in groups of people actually building for the game mode, with stuff like 1). Thief in a zerg and 2). scorpion wire in a situation where there’s permanent stability and permanent reflects?

    Since I have continuously mentioned in literally all my posts in this thread, I highlight how cc is an issue in smaller scales and not bigger scales....for example you don’t see thieves using scorpion wire in zergs (apart from in cases of exaggerated and deluded sense of effectiveness) yet when it’s a big group vs. A much smaller group, multiple thieves changing to that one skill becomes extremely problematic, let alone when someone decides to full cc on something like warrior/scrapper/chrono/reaper/dh/weaver etc. Like I said in my original post, people changing to full cc builds specifically to stun lock entire groups, who they are already outnumbering by quite a lot, is not healthy gameplay.

    Another woosh moment. I don't think you understand the idea of examples or nuance. I also don't think you're very observant if that's your take from WvW currently. Also, take even some of that cc from those roamers, even when they're grouped, and while you might be alright in your spawn to zerg trail, the game actually would get unhealthy at that point and zergs would have no counter at all, despite you thinking cc's are only a thing with roamers.

    Northern Shiverpeaks [EL] & [SD]

  • I've definitely run across a lot of stuns and immob during zerg fights. Over half the time its not necessarily on purpose from the larger group its all the darn rangers blotting out the sky with their blowflex machines. Worse when fighting certain groups of course. Not sure I'd say its a huge issue but I imagine that depends on the tier you are in.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    CC is much more noticeable now that you can be CCed instead of just straight killed by the skills that CC you.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @knightofmab.2593 lmfao no. tiers in Wvw have zero meaning about anything than player numbers and willingness to waste their time on ppt.

    brainless cc-chaining for days is more a basic issue... and no @God.2708 usually u do not get cc-locked now by those skills that earlier killed u - those ones are mainly spread out all over the field or used for their passive abilities only (drop the hammer, facet of chaos), bc most of the heavy largescale cc's have slow animations. ppl play for sure extra more cc-skills thanks to the smaller offensive output and also nerfed defensive abilities of everything. as long as you have 25% more players than the others, that is a hard to beat "strategy"

  • A question I have pondered is why Fear duration is capped at 2 and 4 sec but immobilize seems to be much higher, with the stacking ability more easily obtained? One reason offered was while immob u can still use skills so u have defense/offense, but then that is negated by the attacker going out of range and blasting you .Also if you manage to break immob it is merely applied right back. Add stealth into it and its extremely hard to counter and mostly a losing battle.

    Adversity is the medium thru which strength and greatness are forged.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 19, 2021

    @DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:
    Also if you manage to break immob it is merely applied right back.

    No it's not, unless we are talking about a specific ranger skill or spamming the same thief skills over and over.

    Immobilize actually have less max stacks than fear, but there's just not that much fear available whereas a ranger easily hit the immo cap. Most immobilize skills also are between 1.5 to 3s with just a few reaching 4s. But that's baseline of course, condi duration obvious increase it and an immobeast/druid probably max it.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @DaVid Darksoul.4985 said:
    Also if you manage to break immob it is merely applied right back.

    No it's not, unless we are talking about a specific ranger skill or spamming the same thief skills over and over.

    Immobilize actually have less max stacks than fear, but there's just not that much fear available whereas a ranger easily hit the immo cap. Most immobilize skills also are between 1.5 to 3s with just a few reaching 4s. But that's baseline of course, condi duration obvious increase it and an immobeast/druid probably max it.

    Thank you for validating my assertion

    Adversity is the medium thru which strength and greatness are forged.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    that is again another issue... the range entangle is really annoying.

    but the main cc-spam isn't only that. the problem now is that we again move towards a "nerf" discussion... ton of stuff just needs buffed again. then u can klick more than six buttons on your classes again :P