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Guardian get nerf...

Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

Guardians get nerf on every count on every patch to the point where they have no good dps build (on plat lvl) yet necros are on pretty much on every match?! The biase is strong on them
I see.

Comments

  • Zodi.8932Zodi.8932 Member ✭✭

    I’m still going pretty strong tbh on my burn DH in G3, P1. I win most 1 on 1s.

    But yeah necros are simply another level at the moment. A decent scourge or reaper carries matches alone and I have seen them solo kill 3 players in a few games recently.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Zodi.8932 said:
    I’m still going pretty strong tbh on my burn DH in G3, P1. I win most 1 on 1s.

    But yeah necros are simply another level at the moment. A decent scourge or reaper carries matches alone and I have seen them solo kill 3 players in a few games recently.

    I bet 1000 gold you would lose 1v1 against every Plat 1 Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Weaver, Reaper, Mirage, Power Herald, Condi Herald, Core Necro, Spellbreaker, Holo and Scrapper 5-95. What are you even talking about when you play practically a glasscanon in terms of traits who can‘t put on any form of pressure anymore, since they nerfed burn by 50%. They could have made Sword of Justice a one-hit skill and the problem would have been solved - instead they nerfed the whole spec into uselessness

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With mesmer, thief, warrior, ranger and now guard being trash tier, we must be heading towards some pretty good balance.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dps guard hits hard and it's as a support still viable just scourge is now overshadowing, but without guard it's only half viable

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Dps guard hits hard and it's as a support still viable just scourge is now overshadowing, but without guard it's only half viable

    I agree dps guard hits hard. The problem is after you use 3 or 4 skills to hit "hard" (not hard enough to get a kill most of the time) they have no follow up. On Plat level thats a death sentence for them 80% to 90% of the time.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    Guardians get nerf on every count on every patch to the point where they have no good dps build (on plat lvl) yet necros are on pretty much on every match?! The biase is strong on them
    I see.

    Pretty sure the guys who say Guard is still „fine“ are probably Gold/Silver or unranked players. Fact is Burn DH, which was already a meme build, got nerfed by over 200% which makes it utterly useless considering Burn DH had to trait full glasscanon to do that amount of damage.
    Offensive Power Guard has 11K HP and loses to every single other roamer in the meta, without a single favorable match-up

    explain how guard got nerfed by 200%? lol

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    Guardians get nerf on every count on every patch to the point where they have no good dps build (on plat lvl) yet necros are on pretty much on every match?! The biase is strong on them
    I see.

    Pretty sure the guys who say Guard is still „fine“ are probably Gold/Silver or unranked players. Fact is Burn DH, which was already a meme build, got nerfed by over 200% which makes it utterly useless considering Burn DH had to trait full glasscanon to do that amount of damage.
    Offensive Power Guard has 11K HP and loses to every single other roamer in the meta, without a single favorable match-up

    explain how guard got nerfed by 200%? lol

    Lol sorry, I of course meant it got cut in half twice, was writing this on my phone while walking. Condition damage output is dependent on the condition duration you can apply. Burn Guard got first Permeating Wrath cut by 50% and Eternal Armory as well by 50%, as well as removing one charge from Sword of Justice making it a damage reduction for the build of >50%. Corrected it, thank you for making me aware of that

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    Guardians get nerf on every count on every patch to the point where they have no good dps build (on plat lvl) yet necros are on pretty much on every match?! The biase is strong on them
    I see.

    Pretty sure the guys who say Guard is still „fine“ are probably Gold/Silver or unranked players. Fact is Burn DH, which was already a meme build, got nerfed by over 200% which makes it utterly useless considering Burn DH had to trait full glasscanon to do that amount of damage.
    Offensive Power Guard has 11K HP and loses to every single other roamer in the meta, without a single favorable match-up

    explain how guard got nerfed by 200%? lol

    Lol sorry, I of course meant it got cut in half twice, was writing this on my phone while walking. Condition damage output is dependent on the condition duration you can apply. Burn Guard got first Permeating Wrath cut by 50% and Eternal Armory as well by 50%, as well as removing one charge from Sword of Justice making it a damage reduction for the build of >75%. Corrected it, thank you for making me aware of that

    thats a 50% dmg nerf my man, not even that since burn-guard relies on bursting people, and duration nerf wont prevent it.
    It will just make it kitten then it already is in smaller-scale fights
    Over-all typical anet balance, lets gooo 50% nerf goes brzzt

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Zodi.8932 said:
    I’m still going pretty strong tbh on my burn DH in G3, P1. I win most 1 on 1s.

    But yeah necros are simply another level at the moment. A decent scourge or reaper carries matches alone and I have seen them solo kill 3 players in a few games recently.

    I bet 1000 gold you would lose 1v1 against every Plat 1 Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Weaver, Reaper, Mirage, Power Herald, Condi Herald, Core Necro, Spellbreaker, Holo and Scrapper 5-95. What are you even talking about when you play practically a glasscanon in terms of traits who can‘t put on any form of pressure anymore, since they nerfed burn by 75%. They could have made Sword of Justice a one-hit skill and the problem would have been solved - instead they nerfed the whole spec into uselessness

    Tbh that's how it should be with burn DH. Its value scales up with the number of targets it hits. It's carry potential in teamfights is higher than all of the above, so it should be weaker in a 1v1.

    Also I should stress. The burst of the build was not touched, only the duration of the burning. They got the exact same treatment as weaver, and considering that build was fire weaver on steroids, I think that's fitting.

    That being said. I was completely against it when Anet decided to nerf fire weaver, scrapper, rune of resistance and healbreaker. All of those helped keep burn DH in check in one way or another. The problem with this whack-a-mole balance is that it doesn't balance the game long term. Every time you think you've whacked down every mole, a new one pops up.

  • snoow.1694snoow.1694 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    Guardians get nerf on every count on every patch to the point where they have no good dps build (on plat lvl) yet necros are on pretty much on every match?! The biase is strong on them
    I see.

    Pretty sure the guys who say Guard is still „fine“ are probably Gold/Silver or unranked players. Fact is Burn DH, which was already a meme build, got nerfed by over 200% which makes it utterly useless considering Burn DH had to trait full glasscanon to do that amount of damage.
    Offensive Power Guard has 11K HP and loses to every single other roamer in the meta, without a single favorable match-up

    explain how guard got nerfed by 200%? lol

    Lol sorry, I of course meant it got cut in half twice, was writing this on my phone while walking. Condition damage output is dependent on the condition duration you can apply. Burn Guard got first Permeating Wrath cut by 50% and Eternal Armory as well by 50%, as well as removing one charge from Sword of Justice making it a damage reduction for the build of >75%. Corrected it, thank you for making me aware of that

    thats a 50% dmg nerf my man, not even that since burn-guard relies on bursting people, and duration nerf wont prevent it.
    It will just make it kitten then it already is in smaller-scale fights
    Over-all typical anet balance, lets gooo 50% nerf goes brzzt

    Maths doesn‘t seem like my strongest subject lol but 50% is still too much. The condition duration nerf is a direct nerf on the burn stacks a Burn DH can apply. You can‘t apply over a certain amount of burn stacks if the burns last 2 seconds, which is the reason no one in plat plays the build anymore, as it started to lose popularity at higher rank already before the patch.

    I am not advertising Burn Guard, since I agree that it was degen. What I am saying is that Anet nerfed the damage of Guardian to such a degree, that we have to go full class canon to have the slightest DPS output and even then our damage is easily avoidable through bad mobility.
    Anet didn‘t just nerf Guardian in general with the February 2020 patch, but consequently destroyed builds afterwards through overnerfs in several balance patches, to the point where a meme build in Burn DH with 0 sustain other than through a rune and with 0 stunbreaks was picked up, because there was no more viable way of applying damage other than running full glass, which is basically the situation we are now in

    Balance Patch every 6 weeks kappa

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Dps guard hits hard and it's as a support still viable just scourge is now overshadowing, but without guard it's only half viable

    I agree dps guard hits hard. The problem is after you use 3 or 4 skills to hit "hard" (not hard enough to get a kill most of the time) they have no follow up. On Plat level thats a death sentence for them 80% to 90% of the time.

    What doesn't?

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    its not really the damage, power guard has no defense. once you use your burst you have to surrender point or even rotate cuz its pointless to try and stand toe to toe with classes that have good sustain. add on to that it has bad hard and soft cc, no weakness (the condi), aegis is a failed mechanic imo, so it can't really control a fight like other specs can.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Dps guard hits hard and it's as a support still viable just scourge is now overshadowing, but without guard it's only half viable

    I agree dps guard hits hard. The problem is after you use 3 or 4 skills to hit "hard" (not hard enough to get a kill most of the time) they have no follow up. On Plat level thats a death sentence for them 80% to 90% of the time.

    What doesn't?

    Rev, engi, nec, thief, ranger... even weaver ele.

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 4, 2021

    Scourges will be getting a major shave soon, it's been hinted for a while. Against Reapers it's always been a l2p issue. They have long animations and poor access to stab so just cc them, and it's over.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @snoow.1694 said:
    All within one year and all nerfs after the Feb 2020 patch btw. Support Core Guard is next on that list, since after Menders will be removed Tempest with Mist Form and blink or Healbreaker with Shield 5, mobility and Full Counter spam will be more likely to survive as supports than Guardians

    We can go back and the same applies to core guardian, Hammer followed by GS. Power DH. Power FB. Aegis shatter.

    Sure this happens with all classes to an extent, but for guardian in particular, every time a build becomes meta it gets deleted. In any case, this is the current state of spvp.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Avatar.3568 said:
    Dps guard hits hard and it's as a support still viable just scourge is now overshadowing, but without guard it's only half viable

    I agree dps guard hits hard. The problem is after you use 3 or 4 skills to hit "hard" (not hard enough to get a kill most of the time) they have no follow up. On Plat level thats a death sentence for them 80% to 90% of the time.

    What doesn't?

    Rev, engi, nec, thief, ranger... even weaver ele.

    Maybe Necromancer and Ranger, but Engi, Ele or Rev have the same short comings if you care to play your cards right, as it should be in this game lately. We're getting there.

    I and my friend still play Core Guard hammer (Plat)with the ease from back in the days, maybe give it a go yourself. FB surely has seen some bad time and could use some tweaks, but so far I don't see them played fast paced which might be where the gears fail to turn.

    DH has strong assets like Core to be good and fun, explore your options I don't think they're that hard to find, the best thing I could say is in 1v1 it works while in teamfights they feel more like a Warrior where you'd rather just y'know. 1v1.

    It's honestly no different as Rev, fights are chaotic and usually it's the teamwork that wins, not individual decisions exclusively.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.
    twitch.tv/shaoaz

  • Khalgir.3862Khalgir.3862 Member ✭✭

    There is a guy on YouTube who is p1 on guardian. He plays power longbow DH and he hits for 11k damage. Literally oneshotting everyone.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    @Khalgir.3862 said:
    There is a guy on YouTube who is p1 on guardian. He plays power longbow DH and he hits for 11k damage. Literally oneshotting everyone.

    My grandmother can take a troll build to P1. Okay... a bit of exaggeration, but P1 for anyone who has been playing this game for years is not remotely a challenge.

    Also, when you measure performance of... anything, there needs to be enough statistical evidence to support you conclusions. 1 player, heck 10 players, are no where close to enough. You typically need hundreds, if not thousands, to establish reliable results and conclusions.

    Point is, player A taking build B to tier C means... nothing.

  • Khalgir.3862Khalgir.3862 Member ✭✭
    edited April 5, 2021

    @otto.5684 said:

    @Khalgir.3862 said:
    There is a guy on YouTube who is p1 on guardian. He plays power longbow DH and he hits for 11k damage. Literally oneshotting everyone.

    My grandmother can take a troll build to P1. Okay... a bit of exaggeration, but P1 for anyone who has been playing this game for years is not remotely a challenge.

    Also, when you measure performance of... anything, there needs to be enough statistical evidence to support you conclusions. 1 player, heck 10 players, are no where close to enough. You typically need hundreds, if not thousands, to establish reliable results and conclusions.

    Point is, player A taking build B to tier C means... nothing.

    Don't really get the point or the purpose of your reply. I didn't state that I had measured performance. Could you please point me out where exactly you see that? Furthermore, I just stated the fact that there were players who can play well even on the builds considered bad.

  • Lol guardian was nerfed? XDDD Hes most broken class in the game right now so omega lol he was nerfed I wonder how broken was he before "nerf".
    Nerf this ...

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    DPS guard is still fine

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @zuzu.6014 said:
    Lol guardian was nerfed? XDDD Hes most broken class in the game right now so omega lol he was nerfed I wonder how broken was he before "nerf".
    Nerf this ...

    Why does that justify guard to be useless outside of support?

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    DPS guard is still fine

    Not even close.

  • Imagine reading this as a p2 playing mostly core guard zerk 😂. Necro doing 1vs3 kekw. My eyes are bleeding so much

  • Skyroar.2974Skyroar.2974 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    Any plats here playing core zerker guardians at their elo need to share their builds. I wanna try them out.

  • Core Ele & Core Engi: bruh, you sirius?

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:
    Core Ele & Core Engi: bruh, you sirius?

    Never said they didnt need help too. Im just point it out for a I class I know about and can safely say it needs help.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't know, I still crush ppl in p2 with my core power guard, maybe you just need to stop crying and get good?

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @snoow.1694 said:
    All within one year and all nerfs after the Feb 2020 patch btw. Support Core Guard is next on that list, since after Menders will be removed Tempest with Mist Form and blink or Healbreaker with Shield 5, mobility and Full Counter spam will be more likely to survive as supports than Guardians

    warrior had 1 meta build since feb 2020 and that lasted for 2 months in a total of 14 months, which means warrior is down for 12 months since feb 2020

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    I don't know, I still crush ppl in p2 with my core power guard, maybe you just need to stop crying and get good?

    Probe the same kind of people that win in a landslide because the enemy team was either fighting, had bots or a leaver and call themselves good and tell the rest to get good.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will debunk this today, I'll come back and stream some zerk guard tonight.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:
    I will debunk this today, I'll come back and stream some zerk guard tonight.

    I was gonna do same thing.

    Post with me so we can end this silly debacle.

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:
    I will debunk this today, I'll come back and stream some zerk guard tonight.

    Well make sure to put the whole stream up and not just the good bits to prove a point ;)

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Tharan.9085 said:
    I don't know, I still crush ppl in p2 with my core power guard, maybe you just need to stop crying and get good?

    Probe the same kind of people that win in a landslide because the enemy team was either fighting, had bots or a leaver and call themselves good and tell the rest to get good.

    that's why I am consisten up there on different classes and builds, makes sense

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Math.5123 said:
    I will debunk this today, I'll come back and stream some zerk guard tonight.

    Well make sure to put the whole stream up and not just the good bits to prove a point ;)

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Math.5123 said:
    I will debunk this today, I'll come back and stream some zerk guard tonight.

    I was gonna do same thing.

    Post with me so we can end this silly debacle.

    Going live in like 15.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's my fill for another 4 months. 2 games against mAT winners and God of PvP. The third game a classic plat queue.
    Queued with a power mirage that's just below p3 to boost the matchmaking a bit early on.
    Power guard is fine in ranked, very terrible in organized games.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    I say guard need more health and a speed trait thats not on dh and power could be better.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just played a plat game with 5 guards, most of them playing power core & dh. Guard is fine.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I ended up streaming a Druid test tonight rather than Guard, but I did find a decent Guard build that I felt was working well. I can say that DH and FB felt bad while running tests and trying to figure something out, but this one Core Guard build I threw together was working out surprisingly well. I made this build because I felt that traditional Core Burst Guard builds lack the disengage factor and sustained pressure to be able to deal with being caught in 1v1s against things like Holo or Renegade as examples. Try this build if you haven't tried something like this already. It works, just don't try to face tank like older builds. You need to kite and move, not soak damage:

    • Marauder/Speed Rune
    • Scepter/Shield Energy Courge - Greatsword Energy Courage
    • Valor 212 - Honor 331 - Virtue 123
    • 6 Litany - 7 Contemplation - 8 Stand Ground - 9 Retreat - 0 Feel Wrath

    It plays just like a Reaper that has a lot of team buffs for team fights. It's bringing team stability/stun breaks, a lot of team aegis, team quickness fury, team might buffing, and decent level of team cleanse.

    I'm not saying this build is massively OP, but it was working and seemed potent as a team fight presence. It can 1v1 everything on a side node except heavy boon removal or fire weavers. I'm not saying this is the BEST variant possible post patch, I'm just saying it works and it certainly has damage output.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭✭

    anything with teleport will be always good in ranked Q, meta only represents organized plays.
    plenty thief/mes in top rating.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @snoow.1694 said:

    @Zodi.8932 said:
    I’m still going pretty strong tbh on my burn DH in G3, P1. I win most 1 on 1s.

    But yeah necros are simply another level at the moment. A decent scourge or reaper carries matches alone and I have seen them solo kill 3 players in a few games recently.

    I bet 1000 gold you would lose 1v1 against every Plat 1 Soulbeast, Core Ranger, Weaver, Reaper, Mirage, Power Herald, Condi Herald, Core Necro, Spellbreaker, Holo and Scrapper 5-95. What are you even talking about when you play practically a glasscanon in terms of traits who can‘t put on any form of pressure anymore, since they nerfed burn by 50%. They could have made Sword of Justice a one-hit skill and the problem would have been solved - instead they nerfed the whole spec into uselessness

    You would have a good shot vs reaper maybe, everything else is spot on at least in PvP. Guardian is basically a hit and run class with no disengage and is basically one of the worst 1v1 professions atm because of that reason as far as PvP goes, the main defense(block) are on a rather high CD when you try to juggle between dmg and sustain

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just want Hammer to not suck to use anymore.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I just want Hammer to not suck to use anymore.

    Hammer works to a certain degree, even better in Wvw with signer of agility

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    I just want Hammer to not suck to use anymore.

    Hammer just needs a faster 3rd Auto Attack.

  • Tharan.9085Tharan.9085 Member ✭✭✭

    They should just fix the tracking issues on certain skills (scepter AA, GS5)