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Why is Discipline so common in builds?


Dao Jones.6720

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I’ve got a fairly fresh 80 Warrior that I plan to run through all of the LW story content (which I’ve never actually played before), and as I’m looking to refine my build for solo/open world PvE I keep seeing Discipline crop up in every build, and I’m not sure I understand why.

Is weapon switching really just super common for everyone? I run Axe/Axe as my primary weapon set, and it doesn’t feel like I’m so short of things to do off cool down that a weapon swap would be super useful. Additionally, I like to keep a ranged weapon on swap for those few scenarios where I want to keep my distance (also out of habit from doing a lot of WvW roaming on my Ranger). Are the on swap synergies in the Discipline trait line plus swap runes in weapons really better than just leaning in on your primary weapon? Because if so, then that’s a PEBKAC issue for me, and I should get used to swapping.

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It shaves off 5s on weapon swap cooldown.That's huge as it opens up weapon combos and being able to have the right weapon in yur hands for whatever situation.

Secondary reasons are that it holds few important traits for Warrior :

  • Burst Mastery which is a stable source of Swiftness for Warriors
  • Warrior's Sprint which gives them the ability to break out of immobilization as well as increases their movespeed.
  • Axe Mastery for Axe builds
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The faster weapon swap, the condi cleanse, the possible damage increase, the removal of immobilize on movement skills, the might on swap and the essential burst mastery trait are all part of most warrior builds.

They enhance the warrior playstyle by a lot. The minor traits have a 4 sec ICD, which means achieving the lowest possible weapon swap CD (Discipline + Runes of the Warrior) allows you to gain might (great synergy with Strength/Tactics for self heal potential), cleanse 1 condition (in combination with a cleansing sigil +3 cleanses per 9 sec) and generally make everything easier for a warrior.

The BurstMastery restores adrenaline on bursts and grants swiftness. With no warhorn and without wasting a Balanced Stance for swiftness, our only means of getting it (plus picking traited banners, also on Discipline). Again removal of immobilized is a massive advantage without burning through a cleanse. Immobilize is commonly used for enemies to land bursts on you and avoiding getting hit brings counterplay to that.

The speed bonus is nice, but I don't think it stacks with swiftness. Still good to have nonetheless when with no swiftness. A nice bonus.

Swapping is the most essential mechanic on warriors. Swap fast enough when needed and kill your enemy in a single rotation. That is why you won't see discipline used in tankier builds or builds meant to be played with allies. The warrior then prefers more damage output or superior defense rather than utility.

Finally, Discipline really shines on Spellbreaker where you can generate Insight and instantly refresh your bursts. At that point, the lowest the weapon swap CD the better.

Edit: speaking from a WvW roaming and PvP perspective. In PvE, run whatever. It doesn't matter, unless you need a dedicated build for Raids, Fractals or Dungeons.

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Warrior has one main mechanic Burst skills, most of the traits need burst skills to trigger, Discipline is about burst skills and adrenaline generation the 5 sec weapon swap is huge and weapons have been balanced around that idea, so warrior can't really do its main mechanic well without Discipline. The one set of weapons that can work standalone without weapon swap is axe axe but the trait is in Discipline.

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I think discipline so common in build because of the Fast Hands 5 seconds weapon swap and Axe mastery. In PvE highest damage for warrior now is Axe/Axe because of that axe mastery giving a lot of ferocity.On WvW/PvP you get 1 extra condi cleanse from weapon swap, ability to remove immobilize with movement skill, return a bit adrenaline after burst.

If Fasthand going as base warrior and Axe Mastery went to Arms and some redesign of Arms spec, I think we will see Strength/Arms for PvE and then with competitive it will be Strength Discipline or something?

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If Fast Hands was ever made Baseline I think warriors would only run Disc for axe mastery if they ran axe in competitive. For PvE it would still be Discipline due to Double Standards and the requirement that we play as their banner slaves (the traits keeps you from LOOSING dps just to maintain the banners, in all honestly make it triple the state gain instead of double so that the warrior at least gets the same DPS boost as the party).

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Thank you everyone for the replies. I definitely get the value for pvp/WvW, or for specific builds. I really wish Axe/Axe had a movement skill in there to take advantage of Warrior’s Sprint (and Brave Stride); Sword/Axe isn’t quite as fun to play, and Greatsword just feels clunky.

That being said, I’ve dropped Discipline into my build, and added Kick as an on-demand movement skill (as well as a hard CC). Figure it’s worth getting used to running with it if I ever decide to do WvW with this guy (instead of my Ranger or Necro).

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:If Fast Hands was ever made Baseline I think warriors would only run Disc for axe mastery if they ran axe in competitive. For PvE it would still be Discipline due to Double Standards and the requirement that we play as their banner slaves (the traits keeps you from LOOSING dps just to maintain the banners, in all honestly make it triple the state gain instead of double so that the warrior at least gets the same DPS boost as the party).

Triple will be nice to get extra boost to precision and crit chance but... Please tweak the banner and this trait, I mean the trait doesn't even affect the elite banner like wtf.But again if anet redesign arm and put axe mastery on new arms, I think we should can be free from BS and go pure DPS? what do you think?

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Arms should definitely have it condi role bumped up. Some better flat damage options and a means of selfish sustain would be appreciated too. It's the only line with 0 defense value and I believe that it shouldn't be like that for warrior.

I digress though, time to think about some meaningful changes for Discipline ig. Suggestiosn that will never be seen by anet XD

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Discipline is the trait line related to ferocity and crit damage historically. Axe mastery belongs there. What Arms needs is for Opportunist, Unsuspecting Foe, and Dual Wielding to be completely reworked and for Burst Precision to linger for a number of seconds after you use a burst based on the adrenaline spent.

@Dao Jones.6720 Eviscerate is a movement skill.

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@"DKRathalos.9625" said:But again if anet redesign arm and put axe mastery on new arms, I think we should can be free from BS and go pure DPS? what do you think?Warrior can already go "pure dps", not sure what this hypothetical is supposed to be? :DIt's just that IF you're the only warrior in the squad then not taking banners is overal loss of dps, so not sure why you'd want to do that.

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Arms should definitely have it condi role bumped up. Some better flat damage options and a means of selfish sustain would be appreciated too. It's the only line with 0 defense value and I believe that it shouldn't be like that for warrior.

Why not? You pick 3 specs, not every line has to have everything. I'd say it's quite the opposite tbh.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"DKRathalos.9625" said:But again if anet redesign arm and put axe mastery on new arms, I think we should can be free from BS and go pure DPS? what do you think?Warrior can already go "pure dps", not sure what this hypothetical is supposed to be? :DIt's just that IF you're the only warrior in the squad then not taking banners is overal loss of dps, so not sure why you'd want to do that.

I mean this has to be tandem with the banner design, so hopefully they bumped up warrior to be like a really good DPS as in hitting high number like the other classes so people doesn't always "Oh warrior just go banner." so now warrior will have to have option becoming dps or banner while the only warrior on squad.Power Warrior still have a lot of critical chance problem as in. I ever wrote it before

Take a look at Engi, Necro, and Guardian

  • Engi got 15% crit chance when attacking at 300range, super easy to maintain since engi rarely played at range. Plus the 10% crit chance when hitting bleeding target, bleeding is sooo common especially if raiding there is always bleeding condi.
  • Guardian got 25% crit chance when having retaliation and 10% crit chance when hitting burning target.
  • Reaper just take that 33% crit chance and ferocity trait when on shroud

Those class very easy hitting the crit cap just with Fury buff.

Warrior even with fury, precision signet and banner (traited) won't get the crit cap.I think I mentioned this crit problem at @Lan Deathrider.5910 's Omnibus trait.

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@"DKRathalos.9625" said:

I mean this has to be tandem with the banner design, so hopefully they bumped up warrior to be like a really good DPS as in hitting high number like the other classes so people doesn't always "Oh warrior just go banner." so now warrior will have to have option becoming dps or banner while the only warrior on squad.Power Warrior still have a lot of critical chance problem as in. I ever wrote it before

Take a look at Engi, Necro, and Guardian

  • Engi got 15% crit chance when attacking at 300range, super easy to maintain since engi rarely played at range. Plus the 10% crit chance when hitting bleeding target, bleeding is sooo common especially if raiding there is always bleeding condi.
  • Guardian got 25% crit chance when having retaliation and 10% crit chance when hitting burning target.
  • Reaper just take that 33% crit chance and ferocity trait when on shroud

Those class very easy hitting the crit cap just with Fury buff.

Warrior even with fury, precision signet and banner (traited) won't get the crit cap.I think I mentioned this crit problem at @Lan Deathrider.5910 's Omnibus trait.

You can easily hit Crit cap versus CC'd targets, including broken breakbars with Unsuspecting Foe. The problem is that in WvW/PvP there are way to many stunbreaks and stability for that trait to be useful there. Don't get me wrong, I've used it in WvW while running Sentinel gear and Precision runes to nuke people after a bull's charge, but it is an unreliable source of crit chance unlike the ones listed above. Burst Precision is better, but is limited to only the Burst.

What would be best is for Burst Precision to linger for 1s based on the amount of adrenaline spent, so a T3 Burst will give you 3s of 100% crit chance. That may be too high of a duration for 100% chance to crit, but you'd only get it if you hit with the burst. I'd be fine with it being reduced to 25% or 50% if we got the effect as a persisting one.

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@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@DKRathalos.9625 said:But again if anet redesign arm and put axe mastery on new arms, I think we should can be free from BS and go pure DPS? what do you think?Warrior can already go "pure dps", not sure what this hypothetical is supposed to be? :DIt's just that IF you're the only warrior in the squad then not taking banners is overal loss of dps, so not sure why you'd want to do that.

I mean this has to be tandem with the banner design, so hopefully they bumped up warrior to be like a really good DPS as in hitting high number like the other classes so people doesn't always "Oh warrior just go banner." so now warrior will have to have option becoming dps or banner while the only warrior on squad.

But warrior already hits good dps values. And people will still want you to go banners if you're the only warrior in the squad, because you'll still provide unique squad-wide buffs that nobody else can. It's like claiming that by slightly increasing rev dmg, people suddenly won't call for alacren. They still will. And banners are even more unique than that.

Power Warrior still have a lot of critical chance problem as in. I ever wrote it before

Take a look at Engi, Necro, and Guardian

  • Engi got 15% crit chance when attacking at 300range, super easy to maintain since engi rarely played at range. Plus the 10% crit chance when hitting bleeding target, bleeding is sooo common especially if raiding there is always bleeding condi.
  • Guardian got 25% crit chance when having retaliation and 10% crit chance when hitting burning target.
  • Reaper just take that 33% crit chance and ferocity trait when on shroud

Those class very easy hitting the crit cap just with Fury buff.

Warrior even with fury, precision signet and banner (traited) won't get the crit cap.I think I mentioned this crit problem at @Lan Deathrider.5910 's Omnibus trait.

The snowcrows build has 99.95% crit chance (with fury and banner, without spotter), not sure how that's supposed to be problematic? I seriously don't understand what you're talking about here.

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@"Sobx.1758" said:The snowcrows build has 99.95% crit chance (with fury and banner, without spotter), not sure how that's supposed to be problematic? I seriously don't understand what you're talking about here.Edit: 99.95% crit chance is with spotter without spotter is 95.19%

OK sorry I maybe not explaining very well, I will try to with my limited language. Warrior have to make "Sacrifice" while the other class just not making any sacrifice.I checked the snowcrow build they use thief rune. The precision is nice but the other stat is condition damage? we can ignore that condition damage since not affecting power build.10% hitting from side or behind, raid maybe you can get this constantly but I am not sure on doing open world and metas, sometimes it's not the wise to hit monster from side/behind like on chak gerent encounter.

Compared to other power class which can just use Scholar Rune which benefit them as scholar got power and ferocity both stat affecting power build without have to worry about increasing the crit chance, because they already selfproviding critchance to get nearcap with just fury. Of course scholar got it's own problem with health must be above 90% but it's not position dependant.

Now imagine if Arms redesign could make Warrior near selfcap with fury and banner then allowing them to use scholar rune, the damage could be higher? This might sound "Oh so greedy" but remember that warrior only rely on the weapon skill to deal damage, not like other class which has utility to deal quite serious damage aside from weapon skill. Warrior utility is just for buff and pure utility nothing really deal serious damage.

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@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:The snowcrows build has 99.95% crit chance (with fury and banner, without spotter), not sure how that's supposed to be problematic? I seriously don't understand what you're talking about here.Edit: 99.95% crit chance is with spotter without spotter is 95.19%

Nope, it's 99,95% without spotter too, read up.

OK sorry I maybe not explaining very well, I will try to with my limited language. Warrior have to make "Sacrifice" while the other class just not making any sacrifice.I checked the snowcrow build they use thief rune. The precision is nice but the other stat is condition damage? we can ignore that condition damage since not affecting power build.

What "sacrifice"? If you think you're "sacrifcing" anything by using this rune then use a different one. But you're not, condi damage while not being some kind of main source of dps still adds up because you're passively spamming it on the target anyways.

10% hitting from side or behind, raid maybe you can get this constantly but I am not sure on doing open world and metas, sometimes it's not the wise to hit monster from side/behind like on chak gerent encounter.

Cool. You mostly won't be playing raid builds in open world anyways. You also probably won't be expected to play banners, because you won't be running in premade squads most of the time so it doesn't seem your banner complaint applies here in any way. Which is also why I wasn't even talking about that, but w/e.

Compared to other power class which can just use Scholar Rune which benefit them as scholar got power and ferocity both stat affecting power build without have to worry about increasing the crit chance, because they already selfproviding critchance to get nearcap with just fury. Of course scholar got it's own problem with health must be above 90% but it's not position dependant.

"I WANT TO USE THE EXACT SAME GEAR ON EVERY CLASS" is a rather weak and pointless complaint to me. Nobody ever said you're supposed to just spam full berk schollar builds on everything everywhere (even tho you still easly can). Not sure what you're complaining about here. Suddenly open world warrior is now problematic?And of course somehow being "position dependant" is a total deal breaker (how??), but not being touched on a glass build somehow isn't. You seem to be "a little" biased here.

Now imagine if Arms redesign could make Warrior near selfcap with fury and banner then allowing them to use scholar rune, the damage could be higher? This might sound "Oh so greedy" but remember that warrior only rely on the weapon skill to deal damage, not like other class which has utility to deal quite serious damage aside from weapon skill. Warrior utility is just for buff and pure utility nothing really deal serious damage.

Now imagine if everything for every class was "baseline" including every trait from every spec. It would be stronger, so apparently this is what the game needs. But I'll agree with one thing you've said here: "this might sound oh so greedy" -yup, it does and it's because it is. And you know it. Anything always "just could be stronger", I don't see that as any kind of argument.As for the utility skills, it really depends on the class AND the build they're going for, so it's definitely not some "universal truth". Not only that, but I also don't see the relevance of that claim to anything that was said before.

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@Sobx.1758 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:The snowcrows build has 99.95% crit chance (with fury and banner, without spotter), not sure how that's supposed to be problematic? I seriously don't understand what you're talking about here.Edit: 99.95% crit chance is with spotter without spotter is 95.19%

Nope, it's 99,95% without spotter too, read up.Edit: Wrong Link
Check what is wrong here because I am pretty sure this is already correct.

"I WANT TO USE THE EXACT SAME GEAR ON EVERY CLASS" is a rather weak and pointless complaint to me. Nobody ever said you're supposed to just spam full berk schollar builds on everything everywhere (even tho you still easly can). Not sure what you're complaining about here. Suddenly open world warrior is now problematic?Yet if you see snowcrow every other class using power damage is full berserk (some with 1-2 piece assassin) with scholar, then why warrior got discriminated?
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@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:Arms should definitely have it condi role bumped up. Some better flat damage options and a means of selfish sustain would be appreciated too. It's the only line with 0 defense value and I believe that it shouldn't be like that for warrior.

Why not? You pick 3 specs, not every line has to have everything. I'd say it's quite the opposite tbh.

In order to reinforce more diversity. When you can have a means of selfish sustain in every line, you won't be locked into always picking strength for might makes right, or defense for adrenal health. With something very minor in arms too (like heal 45 HP per vulnerability stack inflicted, although some reworks are needed for this one which I posted with the help of Lan in the Omnibus thread) you open the possibilities for warriors utilizing Arms as a main traitline instead of a secondary one. Strength and DIscipline are the 2 main lines and that kinda takes away from the buildcrafting.

Not saying Arms cannot be used at all right now, but it is much better to pick Tactics as a third spec or a second spec instead, which can guarantee some hefty dmg modifiers as well as selfish heals via might share. As such, we have reached a point where the line of priority for specializations on warriors are like this: 1) Strength/Discipline, 2)Tactics/Defense, 3)Arms

Point being; all traitlines should be more or less equal on what they bring to the table to enhance diverse gameplay. I doubt that something as minor as a Major Master dedicated to some selfish heal in Arms would make warriors dull and repeatable in terms of options. Rather, it would push warriors into choosing that line over say, strength, which vastly outperforms Arms right now in every way, despite both being the "heavy dmg" lines.

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@DKRathalos.9625 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:The snowcrows build has 99.95% crit chance (with fury and banner, without spotter), not sure how that's supposed to be problematic? I seriously don't understand what you're talking about here.Edit: 99.95% crit chance is with spotter without spotter is 95.19%

Nope, it's 99,95% without spotter too, read up.Edit: Wrong Link
Check what is wrong here because I am pretty sure this is already correct.

Food -when I said "read up", I should be more precise and say: read descriptions of builds you're planning to use.

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@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Arms should definitely have it condi role bumped up. Some better flat damage options and a means of selfish sustain would be appreciated too. It's the only line with 0 defense value and I believe that it shouldn't be like that for warrior.

Why not? You pick 3 specs, not every line has to have everything. I'd say it's quite the opposite tbh.

In order to reinforce more diversity. When you can have a means of selfish sustain in every line, you won't be locked into always picking strength for might makes right, or defense for adrenal health. With something very minor in arms too (like heal 45 HP per vulnerability stack inflicted, although some reworks are needed for this one which I posted with the help of Lan in the Omnibus thread) you open the possibilities for warriors utilizing Arms as a main traitline instead of a secondary one. Strength and DIscipline are the 2 main lines and that kinda takes away from the buildcrafting.

Not saying Arms cannot be used at all right now, but it is much better to pick Tactics as a third spec or a second spec instead, which can guarantee some hefty dmg modifiers as well as selfish heals via might share. As such, we have reached a point where the line of priority for specializations on warriors are like this: 1) Strength/Discipline, 2)Tactics/Defense, 3)Arms

Point being; all traitlines should be more or less equal on what they bring to the table to enhance diverse gameplay. I doubt that something as minor as a Major Master dedicated to some selfish heal in Arms would make warriors dull and repeatable in terms of options. Rather, it would push warriors into choosing that line over say, strength, which vastly outperforms Arms right now in every way, despite both being the "heavy dmg" lines.

This is part of why small heals on inflicting vulnerability may be a good thing for warrior. You would have a small source of sustain in 4 of the core traitlines (small is relative, MMR isn't exactly small). On paper Arms has a lot of power, but so does Strength. In Strength's case most of the theoretical power is wasted since it shares a slot with our single most important sustain source, MMR. You could argue that MMR is in the wrong traitline then, but whatever traitline you move it to becomes mandatory then. Frankly I think MMR should be merged into Pinnacle of Strength and a new Grandmaster trait be put in its former place. Something like increasing the distance traveled by movement skills, or gaining swiftness or superspeed upon using a movement skill.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:Arms should definitely have it condi role bumped up. Some better flat damage options and a means of selfish sustain would be appreciated too. It's the only line with 0 defense value and I believe that it shouldn't be like that for warrior.

Why not? You pick 3 specs, not every line has to have everything. I'd say it's quite the opposite tbh.

In order to reinforce more diversity. When you can have a means of selfish sustain in every line, you won't be locked into always picking strength for might makes right, or defense for adrenal health. With something very minor in arms too (like heal 45 HP per vulnerability stack inflicted, although some reworks are needed for this one which I posted with the help of Lan in the Omnibus thread) you open the possibilities for warriors utilizing Arms as a main traitline instead of a secondary one. Strength and DIscipline are the 2 main lines and that kinda takes away from the buildcrafting.

Not saying Arms cannot be used at all right now, but it is much better to pick Tactics as a third spec or a second spec instead, which can guarantee some hefty dmg modifiers as well as selfish heals via might share. As such, we have reached a point where the line of priority for specializations on warriors are like this: 1) Strength/Discipline, 2)Tactics/Defense, 3)Arms

Point being; all traitlines should be more or less equal on what they bring to the table to enhance diverse gameplay. I doubt that something as minor as a Major Master dedicated to some selfish heal in Arms would make warriors dull and repeatable in terms of options. Rather, it would push warriors into choosing that line over say, strength, which vastly outperforms Arms right now in every way, despite both being the "heavy dmg" lines.

This is part of why small heals on inflicting vulnerability may be a good thing for warrior. You would have a small source of sustain in 4 of the core traitlines (small is relative, MMR isn't exactly small). On paper Arms has a lot of power, but so does Strength. In Strength's case most of the theoretical power is wasted since it shares a slot with our single most important sustain source, MMR. You could argue that MMR is in the wrong traitline then, but whatever traitline you move it to becomes mandatory then. Frankly I think MMR should be merged into Pinnacle of Strength and a new Grandmaster trait be put in its former place. Something like increasing the distance traveled by movement skills, or gaining swiftness or superspeed upon using a movement skill.

Would absolutely love to see something new there myself.

Something to add since we talk about Arms and signets are part of Arms, as mentioned countless times, Healing Signet has been butchered. Now if it was a better passive heal, maybe I wouldn't advocate for a form of sustain in arms, but there's that.

Strength and Discipline can lowkey be altered way more than the eye can see tbh. And while we are at it, Major Master 3 in Strength also looks like a subpar trait, cause extra vit was never really an issue with warrior. perhaps something like this could be instead implemented in Discipline, so we can have some form of sustain option (heal/vit) inb all 5 core specs. This would greatly enhance the elite specs too, without crazy sustain coming from them either (for what it's worth, spellbreaker was way too many powerful defense options).

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@Dao Jones.6720 I apologize that your thread for derailed away from Discipline, but you've touched a nerve on the state of Warrior traitlines. Discipline is so common really because after Strength there really isn't anything better unless you are rolling an elite spec.

So here is the skinny.

Strength offers 490 power, 3-5% extra raw damage, Physical skill CD reduction, MASSIVE might gain, massive endurance gain, and because of that massive might generation, even more endurance gain and very strong healing. Strength is as much a personal sustain line as it is our personal DPS line.

Discipline offers 3-7% more damage with swiftness, removal of immob on movement skills, shorter weapon swap, might gain and adrenaline gain on weapon swap, shorter Burst CDs, adrenaline refund on Burst, 7% more damage on a burst OR massive criticals and adrenaline gain with Axe.

What do the other core traitlines offer?

Arms:~15% condi duration, a small amount of fury, adrenaline and extra condi damage on critical, extra bleed duration, bleed on crit but lol 1s duration. It can also offer 33% critical damage, 50% crit chance vs CCd targets (which will not last long), 10 Vuln on targets you hit with a Burst, 100% crit chance but only on highly telegraphed Burst attacks, or potentially 20% increased attack speed that does not stack with any other source.

Defense:Blocks reflect projectiles and grant might (lol 1s), gain small amount of regen and a small reduction in movement impairing conditions, 7% damage versus weakened foes with a chance to weaken them, a 300s CD defensive trait, toughness -> power conversion, increased CC duration but only with mace (a slow af weapon), ANOTHER 300s cd defensive trait, gain adrenaline on hit and cleanse condi on burst, gain 1000 toughness on a stunbreak and a small heal. The best things in Defense are Adrenal Health for a medium health regen upon burst, 5% damage reduction at high HP, and 10% damage reduction with retaliation but said trait is the only source of retaliation on core.

Tactics:Immob on Crit + 7% more damage, heal on burst but with a 15s CD, more boons on Warhorn, Massive damage versus high HP targets and even more massive damage if they have barrier (but not in PvP because stupid reasons), heal when you cleanse damaging condis and auto stunbreak, +100 power for you team, weapon CD reduction of 3s every 15s, healing shouts, Might sharing. You also get more damage per boon on you, might on burst (15s cd) and gain 50 hp per stack of might you grant to ANYONE.

Outside of taking an elite spec, of those 5 options which 3 would you take now knowing the full summation of what the traitlines offer?

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@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

Would absolutely love to see something new there myself.

Something to add since we talk about Arms and signets are part of Arms, as mentioned countless times, Healing Signet has been butchered. Now if it was a better passive heal, maybe I wouldn't advocate for a form of sustain in arms, but there's that.

Strength and Discipline can lowkey be altered way more than the eye can see tbh. And while we are at it, Major Master 3 in Strength also looks like a subpar trait, cause extra vit was never really an issue with warrior. perhaps something like this could be instead implemented in Discipline, so we can have some form of sustain option (heal/vit) inb all 5 core specs. This would greatly enhance the elite specs too, without crazy sustain coming from them either (for what it's worth, spellbreaker was way too many powerful defense options).

My take on what needs to happen to Strength:

Remove Great Fortitude and replace it with:Deadly Sprint: Movement Skills grant swiftness (5s), 10s CD. Swiftness grants 1/2 stacks of might (5s) per second. (PvE/Comp split)

Merge Might Makes Right into Pinnacle of Strength, reduce the healing scaling from 0.02 to 0.01, in its place in the Grandmaster Tier add the following:Unstoppable Momentum: Movement skills travel longer distances. Each movement skill travels 150 further.

Change Restorative Strength to:When you use a heal skill cast Lesser "For Great Justice!".Lesser For Great Justice: Grant 3 stacks of might for 6s and fury for 6s to allies within range. No split. Yes, it counts as a shout. Yes, I am aware of the relevant trait interactions, that is why it is only 3 might stacks.

Body Blow:Change the single stack of bleed to 500 damage (0.6 scaling), can critically hit. Body Blow otherwise is unchanged, which means Stability will negate the extra damage, but that AoE CCs will do AoE damage, and Hammer gets to actually benefit from Merciless Hammer.

With those changes you have in Strength a line that enhances damage via might and power increases or flat damage modifiers, a line that enhances CCs ,reduces the CDs of physical skills most of which are CCs, and a line that enhances movement skills, one of each such line in each tier directly competing with one another WHICH IS INHERENTLY SELF BALANCING.

Merging MMR into Pinnacle of Strength opens up build diversity since it is such a critical trait to warrior survivability it has become mandatory, and such things should be placed within minor traits. The healing scaling reduction is for moving it to a minor trait, alternatively the base heal could be reduced to 75 hp in competitive play.

This results in a more cohesive traitline where each trait has a distinct purpose, is not dead weight, and is worthy of taking each in their own right and thus actually compete for their slots. It also solidifies the theme of the traitline to be Endurance and HP gain on the minor traits and Damage, CC, and Mobility enhancements via the major traits.

Each traitline, on every class, needs to be treated like this. Each of the three traits in a tier need to have themes that are common across the tiers, that are equally useful, and stand on their own with anything that is viewed as absolutely mandatory placed into or merged into a minor trait. If Fast Hands were a major trait, it would always be taken, there is a reason it is a minor trait.

Takes Arms for example.

In each tier one trait needs to augment condition builds, one to augment critical hit chance or precision, and that last needs to be a trait focused on dual wielding. Dual wielding is a theme of Arms along with critical hit chance and condition damage, but was only ever relegated to a single useless trait. There needs to be three traits there, one in each tier focused on dual wielding.

I would merge Crack Shot into Wounding Precision (keep the Crack Shot name), make the current AA effects it grants baseline, and turn it into:Crack Shot:Gain 10% Condition duration. This Duration is doubled if using a ranged weapon. Ranged weapons have 20% reduced weapon skill CDs.

In Crack Shot's former place in Discipline I would add in +25% critical damage versus foes under 50% HP trait, call it Warrior's Ferocity.

Signet Mastery:Change to grant stacks of Signet of Precision (+100 precision per stack) otherwise it is unchanged. This change is because Discipline is the historical Ferocity traitline, not Arms.

Unsuspecting Foe:Disabling a foe grants fury (5s), 10s CD. Fury you gain has increased effectiveness (Fury grants 30% Critical hit chance).

Replace Opportunist with the following:Weapon Master:When wielding an mainhand weapon in you offhand your critical strikes gain enhanced effects:Axe: 33% chance on crit to inflict cripple (2s).Sword: 33% chance to inflict torment (5s).Mace: 33% chance to inflict weakness (2s).Dagger: 33% chance to strip a boon.(And if we get Pistol/Pistol or /Pistol there would have to be a relevant effect here based on Pistol's theme(s).)

Change Sundering Burst to Sundering Blows:Sundering Blows:Critical hits have a 50% chance to inflict vulnerability (5s). Inflicting vulnerability heals you for 45 hp. These effects are doubled if you are wielding an mainhand weapon in your offhand. No healing scaling, just a flat 45 heal, 90 if you are dual wielding. Taking the FGS approach here to greater shore up the dual wielding theme, but I want other weapons to have access to a small source of sustain within Arms.

Burst Precision:Reduce the critical hit chance to +25%. This effect now lingers for 1s per bar of adrenaline spent.With the new Signet Mastery and Unsuspecting Foe you can run a 0 Precision build like some other classes can. This offers more build diversity since it opens up a stat for other things. You'd lose out on other things though, so it may not be an optimal decision to make since it requires 3 traits, one of which requires a ramp up time.

Dual Wielding:Gain 15% increased attack speed. This effect is doubled if you wield a mainhand weapon in your offhand. *Special notes: I would advocate for the increased attack speed from Berserk Mode to stack with this effect. The base increase is to help with Warrior's chronically telegraphed attacks to be a bit faster and less telegraphed, you just have to take a trait for it.

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