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Desert borderland why ?

moutzaheadin.4029moutzaheadin.4029 Member ✭✭✭

I think it’s long over due to pull this thing out of the game. On mag, it’s basically free ppt for any server that’s sweaty enough to endure the boredom of taking it.

There is plenty of other people that see that map as “just no”.

Discuss.

<1

Comments

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Some people call it tanking, I call it red that week.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • because Alpine is the most boring competitive map of all time... i honestly hate that map with so much a passion that soon after launch, after making my original elementalist into level 80... the hard way (lol?). a few weeks on Alpine made me quit the game for almost a year before coming back. i returned PvE-only around the time of the Toxic Tower in Kessex Hills during living world season 1. i didn't try WvW again until Edge of the Mists map, then quit WvW when EotM no longer offered regular WvW rewards. (i was rank 180ish). I didn't return to WvW until Warclaw was released, and joined TWO guilds that enjoy Desert map. and there are actually quite a few guilds on quite a few different servers that prefer Desert map over Alpine. (i say from experience on NON-Q times fighting other guilds on Desert, even map-blob zerg guilds.)

    a short rehash:
    ~ i personally still won't be happy as long as there are two boring ALpine maps in WvW, but at least i can avoid Alpine with Desert
    ~ Alpine needs to be changed... 1) there are no shrines 2) there is way too much wasted space on the north of the map: ie the skritt and centaur areas
    ~ so far, the only reason i hear for "hating" desert is the lack of being able to trebuchet walled-objectives from the "safety" of other walled-objectives, which many consider to be cowardly for the game mode. all the other "excuses" are whining about losing/ such as getting pushed off a cliff and falling to death. (yeah, it's happened to me before, too. you can't rack up 2100 ranks in WvW without dying thousands of times when you can't 1v1)

    "Bacon Defeciency DIsorder Sux"
    ~ The Baconnaire

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Alpine has more strategic importance to towers. If there's a new map that should be a focus , there could just be a recolored and elevation changed jungle/forest version of Alpine and people would likely be happy with it (provided mounts did not provide extra speed).

    That said, Desert BL has been improved a lot in terms of accessibility after multiple iterations. I tested the original Desert BL map on the test server, endured the lagfest laser on the first iterations of the map, and got lost for a while on the original versions of the map without the ramps and the shortcuts (eagles , hay bales, and otherwise).

    Did you know that Desert BL fire keep used to have lava where the grates currently are?

  • Rukasu.3097Rukasu.3097 Member ✭✭
    edited April 6, 2021

    I hate desert borderlands because it's the most difficult one to defend. It's too big, takes a year to reach keeps and southern towers from garri or citadel. There are rarely any scouts.

    It's the perfect place for ppt monkeys who like to sneak objectives.
    Also, the northern towers are too easy to reach and generally badly placed (at least imo). Can't recall how many times we lost a t3 tower "just so" because a sneaky 5-man monkey squad cata'ed walls from a spot unreachable for the built watchtower, which wasn't able to mark them.

    I may be flora, but you and I can have some fauna.

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    Another reason why WvW doesn't get much work on. Honestly Alpine map has been there since release and it has been the same aside from the middle section that was converted even then it was ages ago. There is a lot more things in RBL that offers strategic incentives to capturing the shrines especially earth shrines where you are able to jump from kitten to AK in seconds, not to mention the reveal around garri. As a roamer desert bl is honestly the best place to roam at, the only issue with that map is it is too big for the cap size, other then that it is a great map.
    Also little things like jumping in haystacks prevents fall damage just makes the place even better.
    People just like Alpine better because they are simply use to it.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's a great map to roam in, has interesting mechanics and i routinely go there with squads and no one really has a problem with it. I'm on EU. Fights for the Desert Garri are one of the best usually.
    I like the map, idk how it is on NA (you mentioned mag, that's NA right?), but i've had some of the best fights there, as well as weird tactic "power moves" that commander do. It's a more difficult map, for sure, but that makes it more fun.

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭

    Maguma at this point is a meme server, everyone in NA knows that Mag only bunkers EBG specifically they only want SMC and that is about it.

  • TwoGhosts.6790TwoGhosts.6790 Member ✭✭✭

    I really like it, even for its flaws, of which their are many.

  • I hate the copypasted fronts of each server. It should be 1 diferent map for every front with a flow of "higher ground" for defenders and "lower ground" for attacking servers.

    I think the desert map is fine, but the eternal battlegrounds. I think the whole of WvW needs a massive remake. But yeah, get rid of those frontline server maps, they ugly.

  • Samug.6512Samug.6512 Member ✭✭✭

    @moutzaheadin.4029 said:
    I think it’s long over due to pull this thing out of the game. On mag, it’s basically free ppt for any server that’s sweaty enough to endure the boredom of taking it.

    There is plenty of other people that see that map as “just no”.

    Discuss.

    There are as many people that see that map as "best map".
    Alpine environment is boring. Tower & keep lords are basically damage sponges, might as well put a training dummy in their place.
    We can just exchange arguments like that over and over again. If the game launched with desert instead, people would hate on alpine.
    I would like to see double alpine removed and 3rd map introduced.

    [NUKE]

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Perhaps we will get a Cantha themed map to replace it. But I doubt they will burn their hands again on a new wvw map :)

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I have always loved it - I thank the mysterious devs who worked on it (whom also inadvertantly/unintentionally seemed to mentally torture people who can't deal with this type of map), there could be improvements just like the other maps but I feel the map is very workable. I wouldn't mind a third map in next expac - I'd rather they not introduce 3-6 new ones. They can always expand on current maps with connecting "islands" or utilize empty spaces but that would come at a price of cpu/gpu/mem resources of players. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Samug.6512 said:

    @moutzaheadin.4029 said:
    I think it’s long over due to pull this thing out of the game. On mag, it’s basically free ppt for any server that’s sweaty enough to endure the boredom of taking it.

    There is plenty of other people that see that map as “just no”.

    Discuss.

    There are as many people that see that map as "best map".
    Alpine environment is boring. Tower & keep lords are basically damage sponges, might as well put a training dummy in their place.
    We can just exchange arguments like that over and over again. If the game launched with desert instead, people would hate on alpine.
    I would like to see double alpine removed and 3rd map introduced.

    Lol no...
    The layout of alpine is what makes it a good map. And most of the updates to it were made well too. The snowy cliffs and spring meadows have helped carry the feel of the environment as well. There is a reason alpine hasn't dropped in popularity compared to desert bl, which has been out a long time too now. Is desert bl a bad map? No. Is it a good map? No. Alpine squeezes players toward the center line of the map but has secondary pathing on the outside to assist outnumbered players. Desert has a giant hole in the middle and encourages players toward the outside of the map with its secondary pathing way way way above where nobody can see each other. To this day I still don't understand the pathing of the desert bl. Its a mess that inherently drives people away through frustration.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Solanum.6983Solanum.6983 Member ✭✭✭

    I actually think the Desert is an amazing map, You can tell how much work went into it and I wish the older maps got updated to be similar.
    The problem with the Desert is it's size, as an EB it's size would be okay but as a borderlands It takes way too long to traverse if something is being attacked on the other side of the map. There's also some siege spot issues but those could be fixed easily if the devs ever wanted to tend to WvW maps.

  • Kondor.2904Kondor.2904 Member ✭✭✭

    I think this is the map that comes the closest to what open world pvp would look like. The size is perfectly fine, You should be punished for dying and I don't think everything should be clustered within 5 meters from each other and the spawn like Alpine. I do, however, think that devs should add more meaningful mechanics to the map (especially to the empty spots of enormous size) and possibly encourage player movements to deviate more from the main "middle route" so to speak, so that the inner and outer parts of the map actually have a reason to exist.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I rather remove EBG than Desert.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you ever thought that watercamp has bad textures, oh boii. Desert is one big circus of that kind, playing anything with blink/flash/shadowstep and so on is just masochistic, you gonna end up with at least half failed attempts because of some incompetent devs.
    Imo its too big, too many useless structural textures, lords are too annoying, there are too many texture bugs that allow ppl to get into either towers or keeps etc. Just bad design. Also this sand everywhere, jeez, you start feeling like Anakin at some point.

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • @Samug.6512 said:

    @moutzaheadin.4029 said:
    I think it’s long over due to pull this thing out of the game. On mag, it’s basically free ppt for any server that’s sweaty enough to endure the boredom of taking it.

    There is plenty of other people that see that map as “just no”.

    Discuss.

    There are as many people that see that map as "best map".

    Considering we went from 3 Desert BL's to 1 Desert BL & 2 Alpine. I think it's safe to say the devs have stats that prove the idea that "there are as many people that see that map as "best map"" objectively false.

    In fact, if you actually go and pull up wvw stats. You can see that Desert BL pretty consistently has the lowest Kill/Death activity.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Perhaps we will get a Cantha themed map to replace it. But I doubt they will burn their hands again on a new wvw map :)

    The only way this would possibly be better than Tangled Depths is if its an all underwater Cantha map.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Bristingr.5034Bristingr.5034 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @Rukasu.3097 said:
    I hate desert borderlands because it's the most difficult one to defend. It's too big, takes a year to reach keeps and southern towers from garri or citadel. There are rarely any scouts.

    It's the perfect place for ppt monkeys who like to sneak objectives.
    Also, the northern towers are too easy to reach and generally badly placed (at least imo). Can't recall how many times we lost a t3 tower "just so" because a sneaky 5-man monkey squad cata'ed walls from a spot unreachable for the built watchtower, which wasn't able to mark them.

    That sounds like a problem from your server if nobody wants to scout. On TC, when we run around on RBL, I swear there's always 15 scouts in every god kitten objective.
    Regarding the Northern towers, you can "sneak" NWT on Alpine too by cataing it from outside it's mark zone.

    @Salt Mode.3780 said:
    Maguma at this point is a meme server, everyone in NA knows that Mag only bunkers EBG specifically they only want SMC and that is about it.

    Shhh, the moderators don't like it when we actually talk truths about another server.

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:
    Perhaps we will get a Cantha themed map to replace it. But I doubt they will burn their hands again on a new wvw map :)

    The only way this would possibly be better than Tangled Depths is if its an all underwater Cantha map.

    Underwater WvW map sounds like fun. Everyone's tired of the current meta anyway, so we should welcome our new tempest overlords with a water map.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • xikira.3264xikira.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    I enjoy the desert bl. It was a absolute nightmare when it first came out due to the barricades and poorly places waypoints. But once they fixed it it became great. I am not fond of the alpine maps they are way to small and the ai for the lords is outdated compared to the desert lords.

  • @xikira.3264 said:
    the ai for the lords is outdated compared to the desert lords.

    I'll never understand why everyone and their dog that likes the desert BL particularly like the PvE aspect of desert BL.
    Personally I find the CC spamming lords on DBL to be actively making the game worse. They exist almost solely to compensate for the fact that actually moving around the map to defend these keeps takes so long.

    Almost as if there's a glaring flaw with making a map significantly larger than the rest, and then locking the methods of moving around faster in it behind having all 3 PvE shrines, which you're basically never going to have if someone is attacking your keep, because they're going to walk right past a minimum of 1 shrine to get to your keep.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2021

    @Solanum.6983 said:
    I actually think the Desert is an amazing map, You can tell how much work went into it and I wish the older maps got updated to be similar.
    The problem with the Desert is it's size, as an EB it's size would be okay but as a borderlands It takes way too long to traverse if something is being attacked on the other side of the map. There's also some siege spot issues but those could be fixed easily if the devs ever wanted to tend to WvW maps.

    This.

    I love roaming on DBL, I just wish it was 50% smaller.

    EB and alpine sicken me. I play them because I have to, but after 2000+ hours...

    I feel they should just have a map designed for small roaming gangs. Small objectives, shorter distances, I think it would be a lot of fun.

  • When tag asks 'stay in this borefest, go dbl or ebg' I vote dbl every time. It is a lovely map. Lots of space to scrim with other guilds for example. Lots of ways to be sneaky if you just want to solo something for daily and a big plus: the map chat in dbl is bearable. Unlike ebg where the toxic elements and trolls congregate.

  • Rukasu.3097Rukasu.3097 Member ✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    When tag asks 'stay in this borefest, go dbl or ebg' I vote dbl every time. It is a lovely map. Lots of space to scrim with other guilds for example. Lots of ways to be sneaky if you just want to solo something for daily and a big plus: the map chat in dbl is bearable. Unlike ebg where the toxic elements and trolls congregate.

    Fun for invaders and ppt monkeys who like to sneak objectives. Not so fun for defending server and that's the problem.
    Truly a dream map for Piken.

    I may be flora, but you and I can have some fauna.

  • Baldrick.8967Baldrick.8967 Member ✭✭✭

    Considering it's been over 3 years and they haven't got close to alliances, dreaming of a new map/removing a map/any sort of overall of wvw is pure fantasy.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2021

    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11, 2021

    Red map is funny to see groups that have no where to hide when they fail to take over a structure due distance and map layout, in alpine and EB u can get across easilly to the latest capped strucutre or blob empty structre while some "bots" will mass treb other emptyu strutures(i call it the maps of the fools who need to be carried), EB and Alpine is is also more oriented to new players, on Red map its more towards zone controlling wich is strange cause could be a decent way to structure maps and the gameplay but GW2 at the moment conflicts with this concept, gw2 is a game to cap close structures then leave or hide back to the latest captured structure to go cap something that is just PVD(and mostly like Gw1 ABA most time omni groups would just cap and leave to next shrine), this behaviour leads to red map being mostly abandoned, theres zones to control yet game dot not evolve around that concept, so it will be used to cap empty stuff mostly and then leave.

    The problem with red bl is that WvW is a weak gamemode that runs on a very weak concept.
    Its ment to please players that want to get carried by blobbing empty structures, fight smalled groups, and groups that change server to have less fights and more caps.

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like it, the map/s I dislike the most are the Alpine maps.
    Admittedly this is because they have duplicates and once upon a time I was forced to map complete 3 of them per character to get world completion.

    I'd rather see another new map come in to replace the last duplicate alpine so we finally have 4 unique maps for WvW.

    If you dislike Desert so much then just don't play on it and take the loss..
    If you choose "not" to partake in battles because you dislike the field then don't complain when your enemies take more territory than you :P

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They need to get rid of the home borderland concept, but it won't happen because they won't work on new or old maps.

    If they had started with all maps designed evenly like ebg, wvw probably would have been in a better place for maps at this point, with a match having one each of ebg/alpine/desert/eotm, and even better with rotating lockouts on maps to move players around maps like warhammer online and planetside did for their maps. On top of that the flexibility to move map count up or down if four seemed too much or too little.

    But everyone would have had access to their favorite map in a match and the rewards available on all of them (which we know everyone plays for, but for some reason don't want to improve!). Carry on.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
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  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    their original intentions were pretty good, but back then also no gliding and warclaw existed (or was gliding yet introduced? notsure).

    either way, the spawn is placed wrong (if it was south of garri there, map would be not that much worse than alpines, despite the heights)

    in the end, there should be a random choice of 1* alpine 1* desert 1*newother border outside of EBG per matchup. the RNG element to lottery borders towards colors would make way more sense and break the staleness. even in present, usually only one of the alpine borders gets heavy content (mostly by ppters), while the other one is used mainly by fighting groups and stays untouched, at best paper keeps at the exposed spots traded around.

    the heavy bias of people towards desert border is just not justified.

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Forgotten Legend.9281 said:
    2) there is way too much wasted space on the north of the map: ie the skritt and centaur areas

    You can't seriously kitten on Alpine for "wasted space" while praising Desert BL. That has got to be a troll.
    Desert BL is a walking simulator. And the only saving grace to it is if you know the few hay bale spots that make it somewhat tolerable to navigate.

    Compared to Desert BL, Alpine is nice and cozy. Who cares about that space to the north.

    Also, the shrines are easily one of the worst gimmicks on Desert BL.

    yeah, desert has more wasted space, bc the space in desert isn't really usable for much due to the big amount of obstructions (doodads). which is not a valid excuse for the literally useless mercanaries of the both alpine borders, tho.
    i'm not a huge fan of the shrines either, but they don't really need a change. i think overall all borders' ruins are way more problematic than shrines.

    that to be said, all maps need heavy mechanics updates. the npcs are on the one hand a bit too massed up on some spots, on other spots they are pointless or just there to make u stuck in battle without any point, other are that very hidden that they could just be removed as well. and the powercreep of players versus keep lords/supervisors is another thing.

    also, everyone always forgets about EotM :P

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021

    The terrain is more complex, the cliffs are higher, and the paths are windier, resulting in an even deeper field of battle.

    And has more kitten plant stumps on the ground for you to stub your toe on. Every 2sec you need to look where you're stepping so you don't get freely immobilized by the terrain.

    Keeps and towers are more distinctive than before. They all have unique architecture, unique guards, and a unique lord protecting the capture point. The three keeps are elementally themed—air, earth, and fire.

    Sure, cool, themes, too bad it does nothing for their value sitting in the middle of nowhere now. Not even interconnect like alpines.

    We’ve made towers more strategically important. Rather than simply being isolated landmarks for invaders to easily sidestep, towers now wall off larger sections of the map and create real choke points. Controlling one of these towers not only allows your team to pass easily into another section of the map but also creates a noticeable impediment to the movement of enemy armies. The gates of towers and keeps are now more dangerous to attack head-on. Invaders must pass underneath a kill box of arched walls, putting them at risk for attacks from above on all sides. Even the terrain itself is more geared toward giving players the opportunity to make intelligent—or foolish—tactical plays in nuanced terrain.

    Yeah made them into chokes, I mean jokes, except for zergs that could just go through the barricade, oh and place the waypoints in the south towers instead of the side keeps which made those useless. The north towers weren't even chokes to territories, just more kitten pain to defend. Gates being dangerous kill boxes, lmao, sure if pulls wasn't a thing, or lets just cata off to the side and completely avoid it. Even if alpines was more open, it at least made towers important places where you could siege the keeps, a lesson they failed to carry over.

    The center of the map is a giant jungle oasis. It’s filled with complex rocky terrain, winding streams, bamboo walkways through the trees, an enormous golden temple, and dinosaurs. This is an environment that caters to roamers, ambushers, and gankers.

    Hey gankers never say anet didn't keep you in mind for this oasis!... that got overrun by zergs for the lag cannon event, and remained useless in between because no one wants to fight gankers, and playing in an empty area is actually a waste of time which is better spent taking camps and shrines instead.

    We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

    By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.
    Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    All Guilds Carried By Boon Ball [BQQN]

  • Salt Mode.3780Salt Mode.3780 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

    By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.
    Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

    Its not uncommon back then that a 5 man or small skirmish group would take t3 stuff or pressure enemy BL to alleviate pressure from the main fight. Not to mention its easier to take stuff in a small group rather then a large group because it takes forever to kill the lord due to scaling.

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    taking stuff "back then" was afaik more prestigious, bc at some point there been tournaments, and probably the earlier stuff to get was rarer compared to these days?

    plus, u had to pay gold for leveling settlements, right? (or paying the workers, no idea how this really gone) - that's giving them more worth alone by doing that. would be interesting to get numbers of how many of the very old Wvwers still play either. From the guilds i kinda think that the biggest amount of them are way younger. notsure if i know any real fighting guild that is older than 2016 /17 even.

  • @XenesisII.1540 said:
    They need to get rid of the home borderland concept, but it won't happen because they won't work on new or old maps.

    If they had started with all maps designed evenly like ebg, wvw probably would have been in a better place for maps at this point, with a match having one each of ebg/alpine/desert/eotm, and even better with rotating lockouts on maps to move players around maps like warhammer online and planetside did for their maps. On top of that the flexibility to move map count up or down if four seemed too much or too little.

    But everyone would have had access to their favorite map in a match and the rewards available on all of them (which we know everyone plays for, but for some reason don't want to improve!). Carry on.

    Exactly this. The "home borderland" concept is bad and can't be fixed. Nothing kills the fun in a competitive mode more than a map that is supposed to be mostly controlled by only one side out of three.

  • Bristingr.5034Bristingr.5034 Member ✭✭✭

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Salt Mode.3780 said:

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

    By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.
    Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

    Its not uncommon back then that a 5 man or small skirmish group would take t3 stuff or pressure enemy BL to alleviate pressure from the main fight. Not to mention its easier to take stuff in a small group rather then a large group because it takes forever to kill the lord due to scaling.

    Yes I know, I was part of a guild that use to 5 man sneak cap t3 keeps in under 3 mins all the time, something that required hours of prep for it to even happen, capping camps, breaking down siege, building omegas and then stashing them in the right spots for the quick rush, meanwhile pulling the enemy eyes off targets and waiting for cool down periods to make it happen. We use to harass the enemy all the time to pull their numbers off our side.

    My problem is them actually designing an entire map for this, to be sneaky, more small groups, more chokes, shrines, more hinderances to big numbers, meanwhile putting in tools that killed that size of groups anyways like watch tower and increasing guild cata supply cost, ewp, putting in disablers was a good idea, for large groups, for small groups it's all that's needed to kill hours of planning and give defenders enough time to respond to that small group. Numbers still overcome any of this kitten.

    These days sure you can still do it on the side when your zerg is taking up all the defender manpower (easy to do in desert cause barely anyone gives a kitten), let's not mention those groups that do it just to cap stuff and run at the first sign of trouble, or hop maps after one wipe, they're part of the reason why wvw is so terrible these days. But what's the point anyways in a system where winning no longer matters, you just do it for a fight and hope the enemy doesn't respond with 2x your numbers.

    So bottom line, bring more numbers is always better anyways, and design a map where all the objectives are actually connected and give you a reason to go after them instead of disconnected gimmicks.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    All Guilds Carried By Boon Ball [BQQN]

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bristingr.5034 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

    They could lower map caps, which helps with lag, to spread players to more maps.... It's an option.

    ^ Another derailing post - Anet
    Perma stealth is needed to outrun zergs. - Thieves
    /Stomps Mirage-Scourge-Warclaw, boon ball balance! - Anet
    All Guilds Carried By Boon Ball [BQQN]

  • @Bristingr.5034 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

    Nowadays, basically never.
    With a new expac coming though, there's potential for a lot of old members to come back, and many people are going to want to try out the new specs in WvW. There is a genuine conversation you could have on the development team about planning around trying to keep said players.

    That said, ANet's never thought that far ahead, so I fully expect the population to decline even more in the long term.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • Spartacus.3192Spartacus.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd rather uninstall the game than play on RBL. If i happen to be in a squad and the commander calls for map hop to RBL it's my que to drop from squad and go roaming.

  • LetoII.3782LetoII.3782 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Bristingr.5034 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

    With a new expac coming though, there's potential for a lot of old members to come back, and many people are going to want to try out the new specs in WvW.

    People didnt leave in the first place due to gw2's combat, it's generally considered the game's big standout achievement. They left because of the environment that combat takes place in...

    And that won't change with this expac any more than it has since launch, Living Story gets the lions share of resources to the exclusion of everything else and mass participation zerging buffs if wvw gets thrown a bone at all.

    [HUNT] the predatory instinct

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021

    @XenesisII.1540 said:

    @Bristingr.5034 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

    They could lower map caps, which helps with lag, to spread players to more maps.... It's an option.

    just no... its yet around 70ish only, the caps got lowered once or twice within the last two years. if we keep going by that, you won't be able to field full squads anymore... Wvw dies with increased pug-pirateships. it's so toxic having to play on maps that have 30-40 ppl open formating cloudfighting. that'd be really a reason to abandon gw2 for the last serious players.

  • TheOneWhoSighs.7513TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021

    @LetoII.3782 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Bristingr.5034 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

    Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

    Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

    Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

    With a new expac coming though, there's potential for a lot of old members to come back, and many people are going to want to try out the new specs in WvW.

    People didnt leave in the first place due to gw2's combat, it's generally considered the game's big standout achievement. They left because of the environment that combat takes place in...

    And that won't change with this expac any more than it has since launch, Living Story gets the lions share of resources to the exclusion of everything else and mass participation zerging buffs if wvw gets thrown a bone at all.

    Homie, people have 100% dipped because of the combat. HoT saw a massive shedding of the player base. PoF did too. The game's big "standout achievement" has been in absolute shambles ever since they introduced specializations over the original traits. You get a small surge of players, and then you lose those players and many of the long standing veterans give up because it's clear the current ANet development team has absolutely no clue what they're doing in terms of balancing things.

    I mean, we're talking about a dev team that put Bolt to the Heart & Fresh Air on the same level for specializations, when they were different for traits. Nerfing an already weak meme Elementalist scepter spec into non-existence. Something they still haven't fixed, mind you. And that's one example out of a billion when you start going over every single class.

    And that's not even getting into the rampant hacker problem the game has had over all these years, that has made many an SPvP player quit.

    If you think the environments are the reason why people quit, then you're blind bro.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?