[Study Results] Current Class Rankings for Roaming and 1v1s — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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[Study Results] Current Class Rankings for Roaming and 1v1s

oscuro.9720oscuro.9720 Member ✭✭

Hello everyone! I recently ran a poll on here (and some discords) to collect your thoughts on the rankings of the classes for roaming and 1v1s. I am here today with the results!

Well then, here's the data:

Data

Respondents: 43
Average class ranking for roaming:(sorted best to worst)
1. Thief: 3.44
2. Ranger: 3.94
3. Revenant: 4.33
4. Engineer: 4.65
5. Necro (Tie!): 5.5
6. Guardian(Tie!): 5.5
7. Mesmer: 5.65
8. Elementalist: 5.91
9. Warrior: 6.09

Average class ranking for 1v1:(sorted best to worst)
1. Thief: 3.59
2. Revenant: 4.21
3. Ranger: 4.35
4. Engineer: 4.7
5. Guardian: 5.29
6. Necromancer: 5.38
7. Elementalist: 5.62
8. Mesmer: 5.79
9. Warrior: 6.06

Discussion

There are some discernable tiers based on the results of the provided data;
S Tier - Thief
Thief came in first resoundingly, with over half the respondents ranking thief the strongest class at both roaming and 1v1s. This should come as no surprise, as thief dominates the game in mobility and stomp security, two critical components of roaming, while having good burst, a high ceiling, and being a hard counter for several popular classes. Considering roaming is basically the only role thief fills well, it makes sense they come in first.

A Tier - Ranger, Revenant, and Engineer
The second tier could be defined as the classes that are competent at everything. Simply put, these are the classes that are good at small group or solo right now. These classes all have good sustain, mobility, burst, and mitigation. This gives them both good dueling potential as well as the ability to take on multiple opponents more easily than the lower classes. Each of these classes ranked near each other and are separated from lower classes by a sizeable margin. With the strength of certain builds on each of these classes, they, along with thief, are the roaming meta currently.

B Tier - Guardian and Necromancer
B tier classes are not bad, but are lacking a little something. In fact, that something is very clear; mobility. Each of these classes has good sustain, burst, and cleave, but are rather slow and hindered by long cooldowns. In good hands, they can be effective at roaming, but generally rely on a group to really shine. Their in-combat mobility is not bad, but when put in a poor situation (i.e. outnumbered), most players will be stuck with no escape when playing these classes.

C Tier - Elementalist and Mesmer
C tier classes are lacking more than just a little. While each has their own strengths, the amount of other categories they have to sacrifice (sustain, mobility, etc.) to get to a competitive level of damage causes them to require an experienced and competent player. Simply put, these classes are outperformed in whatever they do by the classes above them.

D tier - Warrior
Like thief was voted first by over half of respondents, warrior was voted last by over half of the respondents. Most of the other responses were second worst, so it didn't get much better. Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class. It is outperformed by most classes on this list at everything.

There you have it. The rankings came in around where I expected them to with very little deviation. Disagree? Don't like how I described your class? Are you one of the wierdos who put thief last or warrior first? Feel free to comment below :smile:

Comments

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Fully agree with the list

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Really enjoyed taking part on this poll and I also agree with the list!

    Make Banner Warrior for Zergs great again!!!

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class.

    Lol to all those things. Well except the stun part, thats true.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class.

    Lol to all those things. Well except the stun part, thats true.

    Warrior is hugely telegraphed.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    D tier - Warrior
    Like thief was voted first by over half of respondents, warrior was voted last by over half of the respondents. Most of the other responses were second worst, so it didn't get much better. Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class. It is outperformed by most classes on this list at everything.

    Wait a minute...if half voted warrior first and then voted last by the other half wouldn't that put Warrior as more of a C+ tier? I kill way to many of those other classes on my warrior, so pardon my disconnect here.

    For it to be D tier you wouldn't have had so many people vote for it to be first.

    • Warrior sustain can be very high if you build for it, like +25k healing in one skill and not even the actual heal skill.
    • GS+Dagger/Shield or GS+Sword/Shield are highly mobile sets and are what most people run,. Even without a second set Greatsword+Bulls Charge can cover 2400 range, which is hardly even average mobility considering they do not require a target.
    • Burst is lower in this awful meta sure, but you can still one shot people with the right builds so it isn't fair to consider it mediocre. I mean I've almost one shot Thieves with Eviscerate using Sentinel stats during this meta. The sustained damage is still fairly good.

    If these weren't true I wouldn't be getting the amount of kills on my warrior that I do. Grant it, it could be that I encounter only bad players, but I highly doubt that.

    I do agree that the animations are overly long for their payoffs though... Those should be fixed, or at least change Body Blow to do power damage instead of bleeds.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    • Burst is lower in this awful meta sure, but you can still one shot people with the right builds so it isn't fair to consider it mediocre. I mean I've almost one shot Thieves with Eviscerate using Sentinel stats during this meta. The sustained damage is still fairly good.

    I'm terrible at warrior and when I was harassing a zerg the other day on garri lord (like 5v40), a big stronk dps scrapper decided he was going after me. I wasnt really doing much against the zerg (rifle vs basicly range immune zerg) but as soon as he came into melee range I flipped to axe/axe and he died in seconds, lol. Pretty sure he was as surprised as I was. Almost 300% crit damage kind of hurt.

    Either way this list misrepresent the classes because this description for "A tier" classes - "These classes all have good sustain, mobility, burst, and mitigation" - literally describe all classes on their roaming builds.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    D tier - Warrior
    Like thief was voted first by over half of respondents, warrior was voted last by over half of the respondents. Most of the other responses were second worst, so it didn't get much better. Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class. It is outperformed by most classes on this list at everything.

    Wait a minute...if half voted warrior first and then voted last by the other half wouldn't that put Warrior as more of a C+ tier? I kill way to many of those other classes on my warrior, so pardon my disconnect here.

    You misread it. Thief was voted first by over half of the respondents. Warrior was not.

    You are right, I did misread that part. My critiques are all still valid. Since the reasoning given does not reflect my experiences roaming as a warrior.

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns.

    And all of those stuns are highly telegraphed & hit like a wet noodle. Nothing like hitting hammer 5 and doing a crit for 7 damage.

    They seriously need to revisit that BS...

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    • Burst is lower in this awful meta sure, but you can still one shot people with the right builds so it isn't fair to consider it mediocre. I mean I've almost one shot Thieves with Eviscerate using Sentinel stats during this meta. The sustained damage is still fairly good.

    I'm terrible at warrior and when I was harassing a zerg the other day on garri lord (like 5v40), a big stronk dps scrapper decided he was going after me. I wasnt really doing much against the zerg (rifle vs basicly range immune zerg) but as soon as he came into melee range I flipped to axe/axe and he died in seconds, lol. Pretty sure he was as surprised as I was. Almost 300% crit damage kind of hurt.

    Either way this list misrepresent the classes because this description for "A tier" classes - "These classes all have good sustain, mobility, burst, and mitigation" - literally describe all classes on their roaming builds.

    I bet you had Warrior's Cunning didn't you? It's always fun to instagib scrappers with that trait. Axe/Axe is part of why I take these claims of mediocre burst damage and low sustained damage as utter garbage. Axe/Axe even on non glass setup is still big D dps.

  • Widmo.3186Widmo.3186 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Overall I agree. My opinion is that teef should be kinda lower in terms of pure 1v1, and Im not so sure with warrior on the last place. In good hands, warri could be B-tier, guard/necro/ele A-tier and ranger S-tier, but its about statistically average, so kinda okay-ish. Nice poll and project

    Dont mind me, I just randomly spam 35 skill-buttons
    25.02.2020 edit - Nevermind, now I spam only 29 skill-buttons

  • TheOneWhoSighs.7513TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    D tier - Warrior
    Like thief was voted first by over half of respondents, warrior was voted last by over half of the respondents. Most of the other responses were second worst, so it didn't get much better. Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns. However, its low sustain, mediocre burst, low sustained damage, average mobility, and long, obvious animations make it worse than every other class. It is outperformed by most classes on this list at everything.

    Wait a minute...if half voted warrior first and then voted last by the other half wouldn't that put Warrior as more of a C+ tier? I kill way to many of those other classes on my warrior, so pardon my disconnect here.

    You misread it. Thief was voted first by over half of the respondents. Warrior was not.

    You are right, I did misread that part. My critiques are all still valid. Since the reasoning given does not reflect my experiences roaming as a warrior.

    Yeah, not much of a warrior player myself. Warrior seems to have good damage. Problem in my mind with roaming is that your ability to stick to a lot of classes is going to be pretty bad. As well, other's ability to burst from afar puts you in a nasty spot.

    But that all comes with the caveat that most players in WvW are not good at fighting on small scale. So there's plenty of people to stab regardless of how good/bad your class is.

    @oscuro.9720 said:
    Warrior is bad. The only thing warrior has is long stuns.

    And all of those stuns are highly telegraphed & hit like a wet noodle. Nothing like hitting hammer 5 and doing a crit for 7 damage.

    They seriously need to revisit that BS...

    They won't, lol. ANet's only answer to anything that they feel is power creeped is either to tweak it ever so slightly so that you can't even tell they touched it. Or to press the delete key.

    You know. Like they did for the water PvP map, 70% of stat sets in SPvP, a plethora of traits on every class that used to be pretty powerful but now have ridiculous things like 240 second cool downs.

    The devs kinda just gave up on balancing very early on. I wouldn't be surprised if we see one day where WvW has SPvP style stat sets.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • Sazukikrah.5036Sazukikrah.5036 Member ✭✭✭

    Meh. ....

  • Sazukikrah.5036Sazukikrah.5036 Member ✭✭✭

    To be fair though, Guild Wars 2 has never been balanced around 1 v 1 combat. That is something players have come up with not Developers. So some builds / game play styles are going to vary based on the player not because of the development or the decisions the Devs made.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    Yeah, not much of a warrior player myself. Warrior seems to have good damage. Problem in my mind with roaming is that your ability to stick to a lot of classes is going to be pretty bad. As well, other's ability to burst from afar puts you in a nasty spot.

    That is why Rifle surprises people. No running away from me. That and pocket gunflames are always fun.

    But that all comes with the caveat that most players in WvW are not good at fighting on small scale. So there's plenty of people to stab regardless of how good/bad your class is.

    Tell me about it. I wrecked a core necro who should have kept me fear locked yesterday. Never had to dodge or touch my heal skill. Salty s.ob. mailed me some hilarious trash talk given how bad they were.

    They won't, lol. ANet's only answer to anything that they feel is power creeped is either to tweak it ever so slightly so that you can't even tell they touched it. Or to press the delete key.

    You know. Like they did for the water PvP map, 70% of stat sets in SPvP, a plethora of traits on every class that used to be pretty powerful but now have ridiculous things like 240 second cool downs.

    The devs kinda just gave up on balancing very early on. I wouldn't be surprised if we see one day where WvW has SPvP style stat sets.

    I don't see WvW getting PvP style sets ever. I can see the Devs turning Body Blow into Power damage instead of bleeds though.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gotejjeken.1267 said:
    I think this is less of a roaming poll and more of a ganking one. Thieves and SBs (assuming glass ones) are very good at ganking or +1'ing but if they run into a bunker well the SB usually loses and the thief runs. Same holds true if they run into multiple people. Of course they are also the two most complained about on the forums by pepole that think 'warclaw = invincible' so they'd rank highly in this poll.

    If you meet actually good roamers / duelers, a good tempest / reaper / berserker can ruin your day pretty quick.

    Pretty much this. Lets not pretend thieves and rangers are universal gods in 1v1 scenarios, plenty of builds on all of the other professions can deal with them just fine. I'd personally swap mesmer and necro around, as well, in the context of roaming and 1v1s. It ultimately boils down to what builds you choose to play on each profession and what their inherent strengths and weaknesses are.

    For the record I voted engi as the best roamer/1v1er as they have access to a slew of practically everything (healing, quickness, stealth, stupid superspeed uptime, leaps, stuns, dazes, blocks/reflects/invulns, tons of cleaning, boon access, practically every field with the ability to blast multiple times on their own) all on relatively low cooldowns (15~25s) and at least 2/3rd of the above can be worked into a single build. In a straight race across the map with everyone moving at in-combat speed a thief spec'd for teleport-spam would probably win, but a scrapper or holo wouldn't be far behind, well ahead of ranger/mesmer/warrior etc.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    As somebody with multiple invested mains: ranger -guardian -warrior -ele and necro I gladly repeat what I have stated: the list is 100% correct. Playing ranger compared to the rest of my other mains...I feel like god mode when roaming, it does well in small skirmish too with either soulbeast (supportish custom build..does its job family enough) or druid; of my other main...warrior is, without doubt, the weakest quickly followed by ele, with which I can yes win some 1v1 given enough time and situation which rarely happens, despite running power stats ( no condi BS ) I can rarely hit the 5k mark without meticulous set up beforehand and my escape options are limited to lighting flash but...given how even reapers can easily catch up...dunno what's even the point in using it most of the time.

    The main reasons behind all of this is that the bottom professions have to sacrifice almost everything to have either damage or sustain...on ranger, necro I can have it all, likewise on thief(which I don't play but got hundreds of fights against this class after 8 years) and engineer is the same story. Guardian has no mobility otherwise yes it would be up there with the rest....it does good 1v1 too...better than ele in most instances thx to teleports and better traits overall.

    Mesmer and Revenant are like the middle of the table considering sustain, damage and mobility ratio with respect to the effort required to do well, I am not suggesting now to nerf top professions but...the bottom professions need most of the nerfs reverted and some traits/utilities need update

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    nice! Op should do best zerg class poll since zergging is the biggest component in wvw and compare how vastly different the lists are :).

  • TheOneWhoSighs.7513TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    nice! Op should do best zerg class poll since zergging is the biggest component in wvw and compare how vastly different the lists are :).

    Tbh, the lists would still be pretty similar imo. The big movers on the list are Guardian/Thief/Ranger.

    1. Guardian
    2. Engineer
    3. Revenant
    4. Necromancer
    5. Warrior
    6. Elementalist
    7. Mesmer (this slots in as #1 if you're the commander)
    8. Ranger

    And then there's thief. 3 miles away from the rest.

    There's some play for how you order Necro/War/Ele/Mes, but imo they're all pretty close to each other in terms of viability in a zerg.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    nice! Op should do best zerg class poll since zergging is the biggest component in wvw and compare how vastly different the lists are :).

    Tbh, the lists would still be pretty similar imo. The big movers on the list are Guardian/Thief/Ranger.

    1. Guardian
    2. Engineer
    3. Revenant
    4. Necromancer
    5. Warrior
    6. Elementalist
    7. Mesmer (this slots in as #1 if you're the commander)
    8. Ranger

    And then there's thief. 3 miles away from the rest.

    There's some play for how you order Necro/War/Ele/Mes, but imo they're all pretty close to each other in terms of viability in a zerg.

    Yeah very true

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gotejjeken.1267 said:
    I think this is less of a roaming poll and more of a ganking one. Thieves and SBs (assuming glass ones) are very good at ganking or +1'ing but if they run into a bunker well the SB usually loses and the thief runs. Same holds true if they run into multiple people. Of course they are also the two most complained about on the forums by pepole that think 'warclaw = invincible' so they'd rank highly in this poll.

    Yeah I agree, its funny that thief was voted number 1 in 1v1, when it either loses the 1v1, or runs against the next 4 spots. Hell, the only time Im worried about facing a thief in WvW is when I can't be bothered to switch off of my PvE DE, and even thats only because thief actually genuinely hard counters DE. If Im playing Core Engineer? I'd rather face a thief than 6 other classes.

    If you meet actually good roamers / duelers, a good tempest / reaper / berserker can ruin your day pretty quick.

    Also true, for the most part. I think Berserker is kinda easy to shut down, but core warrior or spellbreaker can be a real threat if they know what theyre doing.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Gotejjeken.1267 said:
    I think this is less of a roaming poll and more of a ganking one. Thieves and SBs (assuming glass ones) are very good at ganking or +1'ing but if they run into a bunker well the SB usually loses and the thief runs. Same holds true if they run into multiple people. Of course they are also the two most complained about on the forums by pepole that think 'warclaw = invincible' so they'd rank highly in this poll.

    Yeah I agree, its funny that thief was voted number 1 in 1v1, when it either loses the 1v1, or runs against the next 4 spots. Hell, the only time Im worried about facing a thief in WvW is when I can't be bothered to switch off of my PvE DE, and even thats only because thief actually genuinely hard counters DE. If Im playing Core Engineer? I'd rather face a thief than 6 other classes.

    I personally would still vote it number 1 in 1v1. First of all, a good thief is straight up annoying to 1v1 on any class. And second of all, every thief has the ability to choose their fights more easily than other classes.

    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    But in WvW style 1v1s, picking your fights is a big thing.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Gotejjeken.1267 said:
    I think this is less of a roaming poll and more of a ganking one. Thieves and SBs (assuming glass ones) are very good at ganking or +1'ing but if they run into a bunker well the SB usually loses and the thief runs. Same holds true if they run into multiple people. Of course they are also the two most complained about on the forums by pepole that think 'warclaw = invincible' so they'd rank highly in this poll.

    Yeah I agree, its funny that thief was voted number 1 in 1v1, when it either loses the 1v1, or runs against the next 4 spots. Hell, the only time Im worried about facing a thief in WvW is when I can't be bothered to switch off of my PvE DE, and even thats only because thief actually genuinely hard counters DE. If Im playing Core Engineer? I'd rather face a thief than 6 other classes.

    I personally would still vote it number 1 in 1v1. First of all, a good thief is straight up annoying to 1v1 on any class. And second of all, every thief has the ability to choose their fights more easily than other classes.

    Annoying is not the same as effective. And sure, thief has the ability to choose their fights, but running away from a fight because you cant win to me is the same as losing the fight. And thats what thief does against most of the classes.

    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    It wouldnt be high up. If you cant run away at all, itd be 7th, maybe 8th. There is a reason why in PvPs 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is entirely unplayable.

    But in WvW style 1v1s, picking your fights is a big thing.

    Sure, but that doesnt mean youre good at 1v1s. If you only pick fights you can win, which are fights against maybe 2 classes, and against players that are significantly worse than you, but run away from 80+% of all fights, youre pretty terrible at 1v1s. And even then, Ranger can pick their fights just as well, except they can actually win most 1v1s.

  • Skada.1362Skada.1362 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021

    Ranger is arguably a better 1v1er vs more builds than a thief, but a ranger cannot escape nearly as well. Atleast not a greatsword/lb ranger. You get what 1 leap on GS and maybe 1 more if you use gazelle/bird/whatever over smokescale? The other on my soulbeast, a gs / dagger spellbreaker chased me from alpine garrison all the way to south camp, i wasnt able to shrug him off of me and leave combat and eventually got rekt :S. The GS leap, bow stealth and smokescale stealth, swiftness and lightning reflexes wasnt even close to enough. Would be the same story vs alot of other builds too. But ye sure a ranger with like GS + sword/x + some leap pet has great mobility and can pick their fights alot easier but i think its safe to say the majority of rangers use greatsword + longbow.

    Derpocalypse Piken Square [Idol]

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My list:

    Roaming

    Thief/Ranger
    Engineer
    Revenant
    Mesmer
    Warrior
    Elementalist
    Guardian
    Necromancer

    1v1

    Ranger
    Revenant
    Thief
    Engineer
    Mesmer
    Warrior
    Elementalist
    Guardian
    Necromancer

    Roaming
    Thief and Ranger both have superb mobility and the tools to deal with any fight they find themselves in. That doesn't mean every fight is a winning fight, but that they have no hard counters, only soft. Some fights will be uphill, but because they can so easily control fights and frequently have skills (this means utility, trait, etc.) that are flexible enough to be of value against anything, they are pretty far ahead of the rest of the classes when it comes to floating around WvW.

    I would put Engineer pretty close behind Thief and Ranger for its versatility. A well played one can handle pretty much anything, although unlike Thief and Ranger it does have a couple hard counters.

    Revenant, Warrior, and Mesmer are all pretty well off when it comes to fight control, but Warrior and Mesmer may struggle to finish fights a little more than Rev.

    Elementalist is underrated as a roamer. Because it can recover from chip damage a lot more easily than most classes can due to frequent small/large heals and/or Barrier, it can sustain through outnumbered fights for a very long time.

    Guardian and Necromancer both have their moments, but low mobility and high cooldowns mean every fight is a cage match and the first mistake is probably the fight ender.

    1v1
    Although people love to say Thief is the best 1v1'er, I pretty strongly disagree. It has the virtue of fight control, but that doesn't mean it's not going to have a lot of hard fights. It's just that it can choose to leave any time it wants, and 99% of the time people will spill their cards making it easy for the Thief to turn the favor.
    Ranger on the other hand has both the mobility and the versatility to handle anything it fights. Assuming open field, Ranger in WvW is easily the best 1v1'er, and not just because many use Longbow. It can be an extremely durable bruiser without sacrificing killing power, a glass cannon without sacrificing defenses, or even hybrid albeit the least durable of the line up.

    Similarly to Engineer as a roamer, a well played Revenant can handle pretty much anything in a 1v1. Why I place it lower as a roamer and higher as a 1v1er is because Rev is heavily reliant on in combat mobility. It will struggle to escape a fight it can't handle, and as we all know, roaming rarely consists of 1v1's.

    I pretty much covered Thief in point 1.

    The rest are all pretty close as 1v1'ers, although I think I'd put Mesmer and Engineer just a touch higher than the others. And just because I place Necro and Guard at the bottom doesn't mean I think they're bad 1v1'ers either, but someone had to be at the bottom.
    Guard is actually quite strong in 1v1's, but patience tends to wear it down, and a good player will know it's just a matter of waiting out the cooldowns. Necro is pretty much the same, although with Necro it's more about how weak it is to CC and how much there is in the game. It does have one very strong 1v1 build being the Signet core build, but I'd still say with the amount of damage potential things have in WvW it's worse off than Guard. Still, I think everything below Thief has at least a couple builds that are strong for 1v1's, where as Thief and everything above are just good at 1v1 in general basically regardless of build.

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  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thief is so broken in wvw too. They can just hang around in stealth with siege disabler. Disabling siege is most important job in wvw.

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  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've been rebuilding a thief from scratch. Exotics. Some lower level trinkets. I just barely unlocked Warclaw.

    I can still 1v2. It's a lot harder but anyone who says thief can't beat ranger 1v1 in most cases isn't playing the right build.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • mistsim.2748mistsim.2748 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I've been rebuilding a thief from scratch. Exotics. Some lower level trinkets. I just barely unlocked Warclaw.

    I can still 1v2. It's a lot harder but anyone who says thief can't beat ranger 1v1 in most cases isn't playing the right build.

    I can crush the common Daredevil and Deadeye on my condi Soulbeast....if he decides to stick around. I pretty much farm these guys, if they feel like dueling. I poop condis and have unlimited sustain in a 1v1, sometimes a 1v2.

    Thief will always be a +1'er even in WvW. There are way better attrition specs across multiple professions. A good thief is hugely valuable, but in a small gang context. For the record, I think an average thief can defeat an average power Soulbeast without too many issues. Personally, I feel the pew pew Soulbeast isnt anything special in a 1v1, but also excels as a +1er.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    imo necro cant be placed into one spot.

    Reaper , Scourge and core necro cant be compared to each in any way.

    Condi core Necro definetely deserves a 3.7 in both.

  • TheOneWhoSighs.7513TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:
    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    It wouldnt be high up. If you cant run away at all, itd be 7th, maybe 8th. There is a reason why in PvPs 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is entirely unplayable.

    Nah, it'd still be high up. The thing is, in a 1v1 the thief can play around as long as it needs to. In 2v2/3v3, and similarly with SPvP, a thief cannot do that. The thief has teammates. The thief has a timer to compete with. These are things that actually severely hinder one of the core strengths of a thief, that being controlling the engagement.

    If we're talking about a straight up, 1v1. No timers. No interference. No running away. The thief has a lot that they can do to control the fight & eventually get it into their favor against every class in the game. And I do mean every class in the game.

    Sure, you can beat a thief on a number of classes. But it's not about whether thief is beatable or not. It's about whether it's good at 1v1s. And honestly, it is.

    I also find bringing up 2v2/3v3 to be wholly irrelevant. I mean, any class with some good AoE damage is going to do stupid well in 2v2/3v3 arena. AoE's that are a lot weaker in a small scale open world fight.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:
    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    It wouldnt be high up. If you cant run away at all, itd be 7th, maybe 8th. There is a reason why in PvPs 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is entirely unplayable.

    Nah, it'd still be high up. The thing is, in a 1v1 the thief can play around as long as it needs to. In 2v2/3v3, and similarly with SPvP, a thief cannot do that. The thief has teammates. The thief has a timer to compete with. These are things that actually severely hinder one of the core strengths of a thief, that being controlling the engagement.

    We're talking without running away here. What youre referring to is running away.

    If we're talking about a straight up, 1v1. No timers. No interference. No running away. The thief has a lot that they can do to control the fight & eventually get it into their favor against every class in the game. And I do mean every class in the game.

    No, they have nothing. The enemy can just grind down their defenses then kill them. They have nothing they can do to actually control the fight, and they can only get a favourable position against 2 classes.

    Sure, you can beat a thief on a number of classes. But it's not about whether thief is beatable or not. It's about whether it's good at 1v1s. And honestly, it is.

    Its not. Again, we also had 1v1 PvP events, and thief ate dirt in every one.

    I also find bringing up 2v2/3v3 to be wholly irrelevant. I mean, any class with some good AoE damage is going to do stupid well in 2v2/3v3 arena. AoE's that are a lot weaker in a small scale open world fight.

    There are good single-target classes in 2v2/3v3 as well. Thieves issue isnt that. Thieves issue is that it cant run away. So it just dies.

  • TheOneWhoSighs.7513TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 12, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:
    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    It wouldnt be high up. If you cant run away at all, itd be 7th, maybe 8th. There is a reason why in PvPs 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is entirely unplayable.

    Nah, it'd still be high up. The thing is, in a 1v1 the thief can play around as long as it needs to. In 2v2/3v3, and similarly with SPvP, a thief cannot do that. The thief has teammates. The thief has a timer to compete with. These are things that actually severely hinder one of the core strengths of a thief, that being controlling the engagement.

    We're talking without running away here. What youre referring to is running away.

    Staying in combat, in or out of stealth, is not running away.

    If we're talking about a straight up, 1v1. No timers. No interference. No running away. The thief has a lot that they can do to control the fight & eventually get it into their favor against every class in the game. And I do mean every class in the game.

    No, they have nothing. The enemy can just grind down their defenses then kill them. They have nothing they can do to actually control the fight, and they can only get a favourable position against 2 classes.

    This is just silly. "The enemy can grind down their defenses". So can they.

    Sure, you can beat a thief on a number of classes. But it's not about whether thief is beatable or not. It's about whether it's good at 1v1s. And honestly, it is.

    Its not. Again, we also had 1v1 PvP events, and thief ate dirt in every one.

    Yeah, that's actually fair. I can't find post PoF stats, but post HoT stats don't look good. Meh.

    Can the forum devs please make the dev tracker actually usable. No one wants to see posts in which a dev has commented on 2 months ago pop up just because some random person commented on it today.

    Why are we put here, just to suffer?

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the thing is WvW design makes thief good. but in reality a thief isnt that good.
    i mean put thief in a cage with limited space and all of sudden hes off his nr1 spot probably all the way down to nearly last place ;).

    tbh i personally dont care i have my thief catching dust nowdays. but only thing that makes a thief good in 1v1 90% of the time is a load of patience.
    its not the dmg its not the stealth (well maybe) its simply the patience u just pick on ur enemy and wait for him to use certain skills and then when he did and u know he has nothing left u start wacking harder.

    but then whats a 1v1? for me the 1v1 in world vs world arent really 1v1 tbh.. but then again this game isnt really made for 1v1 either so who cares.
    but i dont think thief is nr1 at anything its just the world that has given the thief advantage due to stealth and mobility, mobility alone nowadays wont cut it as many classes have pretty good leaps and or ports aswell nowadays.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reddie.5861 said:
    the thing is WvW design makes thief good. but in reality a thief isnt that good.
    i mean put thief in a cage with limited space and all of sudden hes off his nr1 spot probably all the way down to nearly last place ;).

    tbh i personally dont care i have my thief catching dust nowdays. but only thing that makes a thief good in 1v1 90% of the time is a load of patience.
    its not the dmg its not the stealth (well maybe) its simply the patience u just pick on ur enemy and wait for him to use certain skills and then when he did and u know he has nothing left u start wacking harder.

    but then whats a 1v1? for me the 1v1 in world vs world arent really 1v1 tbh.. but then again this game isnt really made for 1v1 either so who cares.
    but i dont think thief is nr1 at anything its just the world that has given the thief advantage due to stealth and mobility, mobility alone nowadays wont cut it as many classes have pretty good leaps and or ports aswell nowadays.

    So then a thief in WvW doing a 1v1 must be a unreal experience.

    It makes sense, most thieves on the forum doesnt seem to live in reality.

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  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:
    Like maybe if we're talking a straight up arena style 1v1 where running away isn't an option, then yea. Thief would arguably not be number 1 (it'd still be high up there).

    It wouldnt be high up. If you cant run away at all, itd be 7th, maybe 8th. There is a reason why in PvPs 2v2 and 3v3 gamemodes thief is entirely unplayable.

    Nah, it'd still be high up. The thing is, in a 1v1 the thief can play around as long as it needs to. In 2v2/3v3, and similarly with SPvP, a thief cannot do that. The thief has teammates. The thief has a timer to compete with. These are things that actually severely hinder one of the core strengths of a thief, that being controlling the engagement.

    We're talking without running away here. What youre referring to is running away.

    Staying in combat, in or out of stealth, is not running away.

    Sure, but if thief does that they die.

    If we're talking about a straight up, 1v1. No timers. No interference. No running away. The thief has a lot that they can do to control the fight & eventually get it into their favor against every class in the game. And I do mean every class in the game.

    No, they have nothing. The enemy can just grind down their defenses then kill them. They have nothing they can do to actually control the fight, and they can only get a favourable position against 2 classes.

    This is just silly. "The enemy can grind down their defenses". So can they.

    They precisely can't, thats the issue. Thief lacks both the offense and defense to do so. They run out of defense long before their enemy does, and then they get killed. There is a reason thieves run away so much.

    Sure, you can beat a thief on a number of classes. But it's not about whether thief is beatable or not. It's about whether it's good at 1v1s. And honestly, it is.

    Its not. Again, we also had 1v1 PvP events, and thief ate dirt in every one.

    Yeah, that's actually fair. I can't find post PoF stats, but post HoT stats don't look good. Meh.

    Post PoF dont look any better. Last time we had one I think almost all thieves got knocked out in the first round.

  • saerni.2584saerni.2584 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mistsim.2748 said:

    @saerni.2584 said:
    I've been rebuilding a thief from scratch. Exotics. Some lower level trinkets. I just barely unlocked Warclaw.

    I can still 1v2. It's a lot harder but anyone who says thief can't beat ranger 1v1 in most cases isn't playing the right build.

    I can crush the common Daredevil and Deadeye on my condi Soulbeast....if he decides to stick around. I pretty much farm these guys, if they feel like dueling. I poop condis and have unlimited sustain in a 1v1, sometimes a 1v2.

    Thief will always be a +1'er even in WvW. There are way better attrition specs across multiple professions. A good thief is hugely valuable, but in a small gang context. For the record, I think an average thief can defeat an average power Soulbeast without too many issues. Personally, I feel the pew pew Soulbeast isnt anything special in a 1v1, but also excels as a +1er.

    Anecdotally, I actually fought a couple of these (well one condi SB and one Druid) today. Both died fairly easily. Not sure about the sustain of these kinds of builds but people need to learn to hit their sustain abilities every now and again.

    Northern Shiverpeaks (NSP)
    Deadeye (Thief)
    Commandant of P/D and Apex Predator

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 14, 2021

    You can argue build specific weaknesses if you want but at the end of the day thieves and rangers have plenty of tools to deal with each other. Both are extremely versatile. Neither hard counters the other if (as pointed out above) the players invest in some sustain-oriented traits or utilities. Both professions have plenty of defensive options while still outputting high single target damage.
    I'd give the edge to ranger in a 1v1, on average, but its hardly a blowout. Maybe 55/45. Thieves also perform better overall against more builds than ranger across the other professions from my experience.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.