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Guards Need...

Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

Since everything has been nerf since the feb patch guards need a tiny boost.

Guards needs a better healthpool atleast a medium one. The lowest one for a heavy armor class is an outdated concept.

And a speedboost trait thats not on an elite spec!!! For far too many years guards( mostly non support) have been hard stuck with a speed rune and recetly a shout that most of the time takes up a skill slot that could be used better.

Comments

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Guardian has a low health pool because of their access to active defenses, passively gaining aegis and such.

    The chances of them buffing their health pool is really close to zero.

    Thats an outdates concept for when there were only core classes.

    Now every profession has access to all that and more thanks to elite spec and buffs. Just look at the elite specs of Necs Revs Engi Ele Wars Rangers ans Mes (until it got nerf)

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Guardian has a low health pool because of their access to active defenses, passively gaining aegis and such.

    The chances of them buffing their health pool is really close to zero.

    Thats an outdates concept for when there were only core classes.

    Now every profession has access to all that and more thanks to elite spec and buffs. Just look at the elite specs of Necs Revs Engi Ele Wars Rangers ans Mes (until it got nerf)

    This would just be an argument if guardian wouldn't have elite specs to enhance their defenses as well. Which is not the case.

    Guardian is still one of the classes at the upper end of active defenses available, similar like thief. Are you suggesting that we should buff thief's health pool to medium as well "because it is an outdated concept"?

    DH is mostly an offensive elite spec and FB had been nerf so much its bearly one.

    Thieves elite specs focuses on even more stealth, evades and mobility to keep them alive so I dont see a diffrence there.

    Also let this sinck in... all defensive amultes have been basically removed something guards use to make their core concept to full use right? What if thief lost most dps amulets? What then?

    Most ppl would say then buff thiefs dmg to offset this right? See the double standars?

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

  • Paradoxoglanis.1904Paradoxoglanis.1904 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:
    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

    Guard has more options than most classes. Their traits are very strong and all the traitlines are viable in some way, they have a lot of strong utilities, and lots of viable weapons. Being slow is part of their class design, just as being fast is part of thief class design. And even then they have pretty solid combat mobility through JI, sword 2, gs 3, and f2 with DH. If you really want movement speed without running runes or swiftness skills then play with someone who can share it. It kind of sounds like guardian isnt the right class for you given all the complaints you have.

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

    Guard has more options than most classes. Their traits are very strong and all the traitlines are viable in some way, they have a lot of strong utilities, and lots of viable weapons. Being slow is part of their class design, just as being fast is part of thief class design. And even then they have pretty solid combat mobility through JI, sword 2, gs 3, and f2 with DH. If you really want movement speed without running runes or swiftness skills then play with someone who can share it. It kind of sounds like guardian isnt the right class for you given all the complaints you have.

    See you cant just compare a 25% speed trait to a thief mobility. Also JI and sword 2 are conditional mobility.

    Anyways Im just asking for a way to get more rune and amulets options and suggested a way to get it.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

    Guard has more options than most classes. Their traits are very strong and all the traitlines are viable in some way, they have a lot of strong utilities, and lots of viable weapons. Being slow is part of their class design, just as being fast is part of thief class design. And even then they have pretty solid combat mobility through JI, sword 2, gs 3, and f2 with DH. If you really want movement speed without running runes or swiftness skills then play with someone who can share it. It kind of sounds like guardian isnt the right class for you given all the complaints you have.

    See you cant just compare a 25% speed trait to a thief mobility. Also JI and sword 2 are conditional mobility.

    Anyways Im just asking for a way to get more rune and amulets options and suggested a way to get it.

    Rework grandmaster minor in virtues to: Gain 11% movement speed for every virtue off cooldown.

    This will help guardian to rotate faster, but won't help with in-combat movement speed.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

    Guard has more options than most classes. Their traits are very strong and all the traitlines are viable in some way, they have a lot of strong utilities, and lots of viable weapons. Being slow is part of their class design, just as being fast is part of thief class design. And even then they have pretty solid combat mobility through JI, sword 2, gs 3, and f2 with DH. If you really want movement speed without running runes or swiftness skills then play with someone who can share it. It kind of sounds like guardian isnt the right class for you given all the complaints you have.

    See you cant just compare a 25% speed trait to a thief mobility. Also JI and sword 2 are conditional mobility.

    Anyways Im just asking for a way to get more rune and amulets options and suggested a way to get it.

    Rework grandmaster minor in virtues to: Gain 11% movement speed for every virtue off cooldown.

    This will help guardian to rotate faster, but won't help with in-combat movement speed.

    This is a really good idea! I like it.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:
    I should have been more specific but yes by thief dmg I ment what you wrote.

    Dont get me wrong a buff to defensive skill of guard would be a welcome thing. But most of the time when trying to make a guard build you are always limited by either runes with 25% speed ( which are only 2) or retreat which without trait is almost useless and an amulet that has to have vitality (which are few that have vitality with the other combination of stats you may need) or else suffer with 11k health.

    Basically I want them to have more options and variety of rune and amulets when making a build.

    Guard has more options than most classes. Their traits are very strong and all the traitlines are viable in some way, they have a lot of strong utilities, and lots of viable weapons. Being slow is part of their class design, just as being fast is part of thief class design. And even then they have pretty solid combat mobility through JI, sword 2, gs 3, and f2 with DH. If you really want movement speed without running runes or swiftness skills then play with someone who can share it. It kind of sounds like guardian isnt the right class for you given all the complaints you have.

    See you cant just compare a 25% speed trait to a thief mobility. Also JI and sword 2 are conditional mobility.

    Anyways Im just asking for a way to get more rune and amulets options and suggested a way to get it.

    Rework grandmaster minor in virtues to: Gain 11% movement speed for every virtue off cooldown.

    This will help guardian to rotate faster, but won't help with in-combat movement speed.

    This is a really good idea! I like it.

    I've brought up that example in the shadow meetings with cmc already. He liked it, but need the skill team to rework it.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2021

    Lets hope it goes to live then 🙂. No more hard lock to speed runes or retreat.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:
    Lets hope it goes to live then 🙂. No more hard lock to speed runes or retreat.

    Unfortunately, it is unlikely to happen anytime soon.
    Skill team is currently working on elite specs for EoD, hence why balance changes currently are just number changes.

    So this most likely won't get implemented before EoD releases.

  • pikachu.2510pikachu.2510 Member ✭✭

    yeah can we make ele high health pool?

  • Exile.8160Exile.8160 Member ✭✭✭

    @pikachu.2510 said:
    yeah can we make ele high health pool?

    Maybe raise the low healthpool a bit up in general.

  • pikachu.2510pikachu.2510 Member ✭✭

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @pikachu.2510 said:
    yeah can we make ele high health pool?

    Maybe raise the low healthpool a bit up in general.

    doing so would mean Thief,Ele and Guard will have to lose something like Guards access to blocks, Thieves Mobility or Eles Teles or invulns

  • Skyroar.2974Skyroar.2974 Member ✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:

    Rework grandmaster minor in virtues to: Gain 11% movement speed for every virtue off cooldown.

    This will help guardian to rotate faster, but won't help with in-combat movement speed.

    That's a pretty nice idea.

    What other changes did you suggest for guardian?

  • Brokensunday.4098Brokensunday.4098 Member ✭✭✭

    @pikachu.2510 said:

    @Exile.8160 said:

    @pikachu.2510 said:
    yeah can we make ele high health pool?

    Maybe raise the low healthpool a bit up in general.

    doing so would mean Thief,Ele and Guard will have to lose something like Guards access to blocks, Thieves Mobility or Eles Teles or invulns

    So lose basically their classes mechanics for some hp lol

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am in favor of eliminating the low health pool. But at the class balance quality (pvp) and quantity (how many months ago was last pve patch?) I do not think so.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    at least i think low hp classes can be raised to 13k. the difference between high and medium is 3k and i don't think another 2k hp is gonna break anything. it might open up no hp amulet use but with a vitality rune, and more diversity is better.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hederrain.9207 said:
    Guards Need... to be nerfed more

    Yeah, they are really overperforming down in silver. Where I assume you play.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hederrain.9207 said:
    Guards Need... to be nerfed more

    Oh man someone said it. I was waiting for it.

    Biggest upset in the forum for this next quarter.

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Hederrain.9207 said:
    Guards Need... to be nerfed more

    Oh man someone said it. I was waiting for it.

    Biggest upset in the forum for this next quarter.

    People can't, unironically think dps guard is overperforming.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • @Math.5123 said:

    @Hederrain.9207 said:
    Guards Need... to be nerfed more

    Yeah, they are really overperforming down in silver. Where I assume you play.

    bronze is where its at boi .
    i just want it to be handled like they handled mes, nerf it down to 1 dodge meme status for all i care.
    i cant help but feel warm inside from all the guards crying that they got hit . HARD . feelsgreatman <3

    also dont pretend guard isnt in a good spot even after the nerf. can still hit like a truck (if u build for it, yea i know, radical idea)
    8k true shots i got hit by yday shows just that.. u being god tier guardian should have no problems comming up with a build ^^

  • Math.5123Math.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hederrain.9207 said:

    @Math.5123 said:

    @Hederrain.9207 said:
    Guards Need... to be nerfed more

    Yeah, they are really overperforming down in silver. Where I assume you play.

    bronze is where its at boi .
    i just want it to be handled like they handled mes, nerf it down to 1 dodge meme status for all i care.
    i cant help but feel warm inside from all the guards crying that they got hit . HARD . feelsgreatman <3

    also dont pretend guard isnt in a good spot even after the nerf. can still hit like a truck (if u build for it, yea i know, radical idea)
    8k true shots i got hit by yday shows just that.. u being god tier guardian should have no problems comming up with a build ^^

    I don't have an issue sitting in p3, regardless of the state of guardian. And yes, hitting for 8k with trueshot really isn't difficult if you build for it.

    The fact that you brought up 1 dodge shows your lack of understanding. Guard has no evade frames (one of two classes without one) and no vigor outside of the support line and a single utility skill. It also has no durational blocks outside of shelter.

    And no, power guard isn't in a good spot. It gets deleted by just about every other roamer.
    I'm not talking about other guard builds outside of power here.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Liewec.2896Liewec.2896 Member ✭✭✭

    yeah i like to play glasscannon zerkers who sacrifice survival for huge dmg.
    but dmg of every class keeps getting nerfed and nerfed and nerfed
    and now i can't really justify playing a "kinda decent" dmg guardian with 11k health...

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 8, 2021

    There was a time when arguing for guardian's higher health pool would've made for a fair case.

    Now is not the time.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021

    Firebrand definately got shafted in a lot of ways that didnt' make sense.

    1 second condi duratios on mantra of truth
    1 second of quickness on mantra of potence
    ~100 healing on mantra of resolve
    1 condi cleanse on mantra of lore (this heals for more than their heal skill does now. like what?)

    Firebrand definately needed a tone-down there's no doubt about that. This class is arguably the single most loaded class in the game. Problem is, Anet decided to just neuter various aspects of their kit into nothingness and call it a day. So you have parts that are broken and other parts that have been smiter's booned into uselessness, and naturally, buffing it is out of the question because everyone knows what Firebrand is like at its peak.

    This class needed changes, but in true Anet fashion they went about it in all the wrong ways.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021

    You all have the bends from being brought up suddenly from the depths of op. Happened to mirage, warrior, soulbeast, and thief mains, too.

    Hopefully CmC has a part 2 of this balancing direction where key skills get damage buffs.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 9, 2021

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    Firebrand definately got shafted in a lot of ways that didnt' make sense.

    1 second condi duratios on mantra of truth
    1 second of quickness on mantra of potence
    ~100 healing on mantra of resolve
    1 condi cleanse on mantra of lore (this heals for more than their heal skill does now. like what?)

    Firebrand definately needed a tone-down there's no doubt about that. This class is arguably the single most loaded class in the game. Problem is, Anet decided to just neuter various aspects of their kit into nothingness and call it a day. So you have parts that are broken and other parts that have been smiter's booned into uselessness, and naturally, buffing it is out of the question because everyone knows what Firebrand is like at its peak.

    This class needed changes, but in true Anet fashion they went about it in all the wrong ways.

    Firebrand got Berserkered with intention to fix it later but then they forgot like berserker so yeah. But then again everything is getting toned down now and it might some build to see the light of day even though it might not be the best build compared to other classes or even other guardian builds.
    Too many mights, Ifs and buts , but beggars can't be choosers and getting it to be playable even tough you will have try harder and maybe have easier time rerolling to something busted, it is a kind of a win for me ,while the other option is being totally non existent for several years.