Bring back Dungeons as 1 to 5 player experience — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Bring back Dungeons as 1 to 5 player experience

In the expansion I would love to see dungeons coming back as an experience for groups of 1 to 5.
Why?
Now we have pve contents for groups of 5 and 10 but no endgame content for smaller groups and solo players so dungeon could cover that.
Dungeons don't need to have a big story arc connected like the original ones, that might be too much work. A vibe it's easier, like the fire dungeon where you obviously(like cof) you get to fight fire enemies and a quest giver asking you to get resources from the dungeon.
Dungeons could be reworked to be an endless dungeon delve, with modular rooms with encounters, jumping puzzles and puzzles that randomly spawn and the deeper you get the more resources and loot you get.

Or
Dungeons could be finite with a definite map but with a chest at the end that replenishes every day or like 3 times a day that gives you good loot like stuff for the ascended equipment or legendary so there is more push to actually run it. They should scale depending on the party size and could have at least 2 leveles of difficulty, the hard mode being for hardcore players and giving more loot. So you could go for hard mode and run less dungeons or go for easy and run it more times.

I know it's not a new idea but I'm really missing this kind of content and I think it could be possible.

What do you think?

Comments

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I thought that fractals replaced dungeons. Now, it seems that DRMs might be replacing fractals?

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • mercury ranique.2170mercury ranique.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I thought that fractals replaced dungeons. Now, it seems that DRMs might be replacing fractals?

    A replacement means the format is no longer in the game. Fractals are an addition that is/was the current way to implement end game content for 5 players. It does not mean they can not go back to expanding dungeons or move forward to DRM's or have DRM's next to fractals and also do more dungeons, etc. Anything is possible.

    However, it is unlikely that new dungeons will be added as the format hasn't received any significant update in ages.

    I'm personally not a fan to hinge too much on a format. Maybe the OP can explain what kind of content het wants. Maybe he can be catered in fractals or drm's

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    Now, it seems that DRMs might be replacing fractals?

    DRMs will never replace fractals, not unless they do something to match rewards and the gold you earn from doing T4s. in fact DRMs really suck for rewards... i just mentioned DRMs to the OP since they wanted single player content that could also work for groups, which DRMs already provide

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1) I'd be all for it.
    2) It won't happen. ANet never looks back and has abandoned Dungeons years ago for fractals, then fractals for raids, then raids for Strikes, then strikes for DRMs. Who know what will replace DRMs in a few weeks.
    3) "B..but they did mounts, so everything is possible!" - Sure, maybe ANet will turn this game into FiFa/Cyberpunk/Pinball, because everything is possible. There's even a statistical chance that gravity will work differently tomorrow than it does today. That does not make a good argument. Sure, they could devote resources into reworking dungeons along with setting up new ones, I just heavily doubt that it will happen.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • I have asked for this a time or two over the years. No mention that it will ever be a thing, sadly. I would love it though.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Afaik fractals replaced dungeons. (Or were meant to get people into dungeons. Since it was 5-player content on a smaller scale - less time needed to complete 1 fractal.) Similar with strikes and raids.

    I have not tried DRMs yet ... but maybe they are just standalone - as easy to produce thing which they made while most of their resources (developers) were working on the expansion. Probably they are not planned to be made anymore in the future.

    Though I have not played them yet. Maybe they also were intended as easier version of fractals? But I don't think the replayability is that good. Aren't people just doing them for some skin sets/drop and/or achievements? Or is there other stuff that makes them farmable long-term (without being too much worse then fractals - rewards compared to time you need to spend?)

    Have not done my even my story dungeons. since I usually avoided group content - but the fractal rush got me into fractals and I'm trying to get into strikes with the public mode (when it is on daily for the ones I want to do) and later maybe using lfg tool.

    New expansion should focus on PvE content. And maybe good nice open world stuff like HoT (good meta events there!) had. And maybe 1 raid or so ... for people that like raids. Maybe a mix. 1 raid, 1 dungeon, 1 strike mission. A bit of everything. So every type of player gets something. For dungeons I' prefer a "dungeon rush" to liven up the old content. (With bonus chests.)

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I thought that fractals replaced dungeons. Now, it seems that DRMs might be replacing fractals?

    Doubt it.. DRM's have not been received all that well from a lot of the posts i've seen since this last part of the saga came around.
    Not a bad concept at all, just not very well implemented imo.

    Personally I've enjoyed the DRM's overall, but I've gotten really tired of the mobilizing allies stuff and being forced to play the same DRM'S over and over as dailies for the tokens.. this has ultimately spoiled the DRM's for me quite a bit.
    I don't like farming or grinding.. I don't like spending a long period of time doing my dailies either.

    Some days I just want to pop on and get them done asap then play something else.. but the mobilizing stuff has me playing daily DRM's that I don't feel like playing and sometimes even waiting around for hours for a specific world boss to spawn.. it's annoying and it's sucked a lot of the fun out of DRM's for me.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I thought that fractals replaced dungeons. Now, it seems that DRMs might be replacing fractals?

    Doubt it.. DRM's have not been received all that well from a lot of the posts i've seen since this last part of the saga came around.
    Not a bad concept at all, just not very well implemented imo.

    Personally I've enjoyed the DRM's overall, but I've gotten really tired of the mobilizing allies stuff and being forced to play the same DRM'S over and over as dailies for the tokens.. this has ultimately spoiled the DRM's for me quite a bit.
    I don't like farming or grinding.. I don't like spending a long period of time doing my dailies either.

    Some days I just want to pop on and get them done asap then play something else.. but the mobilizing stuff has me playing daily DRM's that I don't feel like playing and sometimes even waiting around for hours for a specific world boss to spawn.. it's annoying and it's sucked a lot of the fun out of DRM's for me.

    You could be right, but the forums represent such a small portion of the player base. ANet has the statistics on how popular DRMs actually are, although such stats may not indicate the "why". /shrug

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    In order to improve both the dungeon and the raid game modes the developers have to change the aggro mechanics, because with the current mechanics these two modes are destined to fall short in popularity. I have had the best dungeon experience playing WoW where aggro is another risk factor that could mean a team wipe.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭✭

    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    Legendary Armory ?

  • Astyrah.4015Astyrah.4015 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    dungeons: much longer per run, annoying or broken mechanics from environment or the bosses, some lore attached to it, poor rewards

    fractals: much shorter per run, much more polished (but still buggy on certain fractal scales), less lore attached to it, significantly better rewards (tier dependent), variable difficulty that ranges from much easier than dungeons (tier1) to 2x~3x harder than dungeons (tier4)

    but both of them are instanced pve content meant for a full party of 5 people and all of them are pretty much doable if everyone in the party knows how to play their class/spec and contributes properly to the group

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    dungeons: much longer per run, annoying or broken mechanics from environment or the bosses, some lore attached to it, poor rewards

    even when both dungeons and fractals have similarly annoying mechanics, dungeons have more of it although most of it

    fractals: much shorter per run, much more polished (but still buggy on certain fractal scales), less lore attached to it, significantly better rewards (tier dependent), variable difficulty that ranges from much easier than dungeons (tier1) to 2x~3x harder than dungeons (tier4)

    also depends on the dungeon, there are some pretty bad dungeon mobs

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    Pretty much that yea

  • @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    Gameplay wise they are more-or-less the same but there are a couple of key differences
    1.They use a different code-base, dev's have stated in the past that the core dungeons are difficult to work on because of how messed up the code is.
    2.Fractles are shorter and don't have 4 paths each.
    3.Fractles happen in the mist so their setting can be much more varied
    4. Fractles reward hook is different

    There's alot of benefit to bringing back dungeons imo.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    Gameplay wise they are more-or-less the same but there are a couple of key differences
    1.They use a different code-base, dev's have stated in the past that the core dungeons are difficult to work on because of how messed up the code is.
    2.Fractles are shorter and don't have 4 paths each.
    3.Fractles happen in the mist so their setting can be much more varied
    4. Fractles reward hook is different

    There's alot of benefit to bringing back dungeons imo.

    1 not relevant to game play no benefit
    2 4 path thats all shorter not so much no benefit nothing stops developer to make fractals bigger look deepstone frac
    3 thats a superior point why go back to inferior? no benefit again
    4 rewards are not game play also fractals offer better reward

    I cant see zero benefit from ur list only limitations and messy code

    Legendary Armory ?

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    I always thought of Dungoens as "stories that revolve around the location" where Fractals are "the story of whatever person you are currently occupying". Dungeons are huge maps and the different paths each tell a story in one corner of it. I really liked that concept and I guess, had ANet continued with Dungeons, many of the existing ones would have gotten additional paths like TA did with Aetherpath and new Dungeons would have been added with each expansion and maybe with the LS every now and then. Would have been nice to have a post-HoT/LS path for CM for example, or a post-IBS path for CoF.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lokh.2695 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    I always thought of Dungoens as "stories that revolve around the location" where Fractals are "the story of whatever person you are currently occupying". Dungeons are huge maps and the different paths each tell a story in one corner of it. I really liked that concept and I guess, had ANet continued with Dungeons, many of the existing ones would have gotten additional paths like TA did with Aetherpath and new Dungeons would have been added with each expansion and maybe with the LS every now and then. Would have been nice to have a post-HoT/LS path for CM for example, or a post-IBS path for CoF.

    I see no reason why an extra story part of ascalon or any dungeon story can't be added to fractals. We have multiply fractals who telling stories of Dredge and other very similar to dungeon path ones already even.

    Fractals have multiple difficulties which makes it beginner to expert friendly

    all in one place with daily rotations, without the need to go different maps

    I feel ppl want dungeons is more about nostalgia

    What's better on dungeon than fractals ? It's the dungeon armor and weapons, but that's also not game play related

    Legendary Armory ?

  • Dantert.1803Dantert.1803 Member ✭✭✭

    What I would like to see is pve content other than events, that can be done even in a team of less than 5.
    I understand the need to have massive groups since that is what a MMO is but sometimes it just doesn't fit the number of players that you have in the party and if you are missing people for less popular content you are bound to wait for ages to get the players missing for a full comp, or even if you don't have the commander tag sometimes it gets tricky.
    Also there is no structured endgame content for those small groups, meaning from 2 to 4, so something that scales properly in a closed environment like a dungeon, that is repeatable and has some loot to support the effort would work great imo.
    DRM are fine but still for some you have to team up, otherwise you are screwed and in the wrong hour you could find no one to fill the comp so it's not the best solution.
    So yeah I could see drm's being the solution if they change the difficulty to scale it based on the number of players and maybe make them less story driven so that you don't get bored listening to the same dialogues over and over.
    The problem with filling the comp is also about the population that is getting smaller in gw2, I remember some years ago to always being able to find people even for metas in old maps now it's just about the most important ones while the other maps are left alone, so you end up with metas that require big groups that you are not able to finish because you are missing the population.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantert.1803 Drms already scale with the number of people mate.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astyrah.4015 said:

    @Dantert.1803 said:
    In the expansion I would love to see dungeons coming back as an experience for groups of 1 to 5.

    i think DRMs do a good job for single player content that scales up to 5 people.

    they just need to rebrand it to another name in EoD and change the setting to a dungeon-like experience instead of openworld and maybe tweak the rewards system or something but the core foundation should already be present right now in-game (DRMs)

    Its all about the marketing. IF they would have sold DRMs as the newest iteration of dungeons! = all praise. But with basically no communication players were left to fill in the blanks with accusing ANET of stretching out one episode into 4 parts as a delaying tactic. Only one of those appearances can even be remotely seen as a good thing. Also, having the masteries time-gated this long makes the DRMS a slog to wade through. The more masteries you have the more easier the DRMS are.

  • HotDelirium.7984HotDelirium.7984 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    @Dantert.1803 Drms already scale with the number of people mate.

    Too bad the allies don't. They still die all the time and super easily. Its a failure to have it be this long and them not even trying to fix ally survivability.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lokh.2695 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:
    whats the difference between dungeons and fractals? not needing to port to different maps for each dunguon?

    I always thought of Dungoens as "stories that revolve around the location" where Fractals are "the story of whatever person you are currently occupying". Dungeons are huge maps and the different paths each tell a story in one corner of it. I really liked that concept and I guess, had ANet continued with Dungeons, many of the existing ones would have gotten additional paths like TA did with Aetherpath and new Dungeons would have been added with each expansion and maybe with the LS every now and then. Would have been nice to have a post-HoT/LS path for CM for example, or a post-IBS path for CoF.

    That is looking at it from the perspective of what exist rather than what can be made.

    Dungeons are restricted to places in the game world, happened somewhere during the launch of the game and current date and needs some way to tie in with the player character.

    Fractals pretty much have no restriction. They can be about anyone, anywhere, at anytime, and on any subject.

    A post HoT/LS addition to CM would paint the Seraph(and maybe Queen Jennah and the Shining Blades) as being absolutely incompetent. Having those stuff happen under their noses while Caudecus was still alive and in power is fine but not afterwards.

    @Linken.6345 said:
    @Dantert.1803 Drms already scale with the number of people mate.

    The enemies scale but do the objectives scale?

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    @Dantert.1803 Drms already scale with the number of people mate.

    Too bad the allies don't. They still die all the time and super easily. Its a failure to have it be this long and them not even trying to fix ally survivability.

    Useless allies is exactly the same as dungeons. That can be considered a feature considering the topic of this thread.

    That just makes DRMs more dungeon like. ;)

  • Dantert.1803Dantert.1803 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    @Dantert.1803 Drms already scale with the number of people mate.

    You are right I got confused with the strike missions that don't.
    Still the structures of drms is so short and repetitive that I could see them being refactored as a dungeon, meaning exploring an enclosed area cleaning up mobs and getting useful loot.

  • @Balsa.3951 said:

    1 not relevant to game play no benefit
    2 4 path thats all shorter not so much no benefit nothing stops developer to make fractals bigger look deepstone frac
    3 thats a superior point why go back to inferior? no benefit again
    4 rewards are not game play also fractals offer better reward

    I cant see zero benefit from ur list only limitations and messy code

    Like I said, the gameplay is more-or-less the same, just easier to work on and make. But as far as gameplay goes there isn't anything that a dungeon can do that fractal can't. That being said I still think dungeons coming back would be awesome. Gameplay wise dungeons can't do anything different, except for include a lot more mechanics and interesting encounters in 1 dungeon.
    We have examples of dungeons becoming fractals, aetherblade. They had to turn that into 2 different fractals, whereas the original dungeon was all in one package, and I think there's something to be said about that.
    Additionally dungeons being set in the open world allows for them to have actual relevance to the story of the open world. Also placement of dungeons being in the open world instead of it's own little isolated location allows for players to be funneled into more organized gameplay in the open world.
    Fractals and dungeons can co-exist after all. They serve different purposes and take different amounts of time. Only got 15-30 minutes? Do a fractal. Got an hour or 2? Do a dungeon.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:
    They had to turn that into 2 different fractals, whereas the original dungeon was all in one package, and I think there's something to be said about that.

    Much have already been said about that sort of thing in that every time a fractal beyond a particular length gets released there will be negative feedback about its length.

    Additionally dungeons being set in the open world allows for them to have actual relevance to the story of the open world. Also placement of dungeons being in the open world instead of it's own little isolated location allows for players to be funneled into more organized gameplay in the open world.

    That is more of a disadvantage since it imposes additional restrictions.

    Fractals and dungeons can co-exist after all. They serve different purposes and take different amounts of time. Only got 15-30 minutes? Do a fractal. Got an hour or 2? Do a dungeon.

    Most dungeons will not take that long unless you have a terrible team but if you have a terrible team fractals will take just as long. Had to spend an hour on a t3 cliffside once ...

  • Balsa.3951Balsa.3951 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @White Kitsunee.4620 said:

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    1 not relevant to game play no benefit
    2 4 path thats all shorter not so much no benefit nothing stops developer to make fractals bigger look deepstone frac
    3 thats a superior point why go back to inferior? no benefit again
    4 rewards are not game play also fractals offer better reward

    I cant see zero benefit from ur list only limitations and messy code

    Like I said, the gameplay is more-or-less the same, just easier to work on and make. But as far as gameplay goes there isn't anything that a dungeon can do that fractal can't. That being said I still think dungeons coming back would be awesome. Gameplay wise dungeons can't do anything different, except for include a lot more mechanics and interesting encounters in 1 dungeon.
    We have examples of dungeons becoming fractals, aetherblade. They had to turn that into 2 different fractals, whereas the original dungeon was all in one package, and I think there's something to be said about that.
    Additionally dungeons being set in the open world allows for them to have actual relevance to the story of the open world. Also placement of dungeons being in the open world instead of it's own little isolated location allows for players to be funneled into more organized gameplay in the open world.
    Fractals and dungeons can co-exist after all. They serve different purposes and take different amounts of time. Only got 15-30 minutes? Do a fractal. Got an hour or 2? Do a dungeon.

    2.Fractles are shorter and don't have 4 paths each.

    was that not ur point that dungeons are longer?

    anyway more content always welcome no matter how its called

    Legendary Armory ?

  • @Khisanth.2948 said:
    That is more of a disadvantage since it imposes additional restrictions.

    I actually completely disagree with you here. One of the biggest complaints about the LW is that they don't have a good chunk of content in them. People complain about this even when nre fractals are added, simply because open world and fractals are so discounted. The gameplay loop of open world maps needs a satisfying endpoint that they just don't have.

    @Khisanth.2948 said:
    Most dungeons will not take that long unless you have a terrible team but if you have a terrible team fractals will take just as long. Had to spend an hour on a t3 cliffside once ...

    When I said, "dungeons take an hour or 2" i was referring to vanilla, when dungeons were actually balanced. I played a lot in vanilla and my dungeon runs could easily go towards the hour mark. Especially for an un-experinced group. I did a run of AC just a year ago with nothing but new players and it took us several hours to clear 1 path.>

    @Balsa.3951 said:

    2.Fractles are shorter and don't have 4 paths each.

    was that not ur point that dungeons are longer?

    anyway more content always welcome no matter how its called

    Yes that is my point, its because fractals are short that they can serve different purposes from dungeons.

    Id really like it if dungeons and fractals co-existed like the way mythic+ and mega-dungeons do in WoW