Viewing ATs and streaming

There is a partner streaming tournaments including displaying builds for all to see without people knowing. First question is why is this not a feature for everyone, and why is this being streamed without people's permission? If this is going to be a feature for everyone in the future will there be an option to not allow builds to be displayed?

First of all hi :)

2nd of all, yes, we should ask permission. First two matches I didn't which I have changed. We used to when having previous permissions.

3rd, this is an intended feature from Arenanet to bring more content to the PvP community.

I will ask permission to cast games as we did previously. This is a new feature to the partners and is one that will need to be fleshed out. I can understand the insecurities players may have of being watched/streamed especially if they lose a matchup.

There could be issues with the system but until it is implemented and tested within the partner program we cannot pick out those issues and rectify them.

Thanks for your post. There are no rulings stating we are not able to produce content from ATs as this is the direct intention.

Jebro

In Grenth's Game on October 26th 2017 (today) a partner was in observe on a few (if not all) of Tournament matches. He typed in map chat. I have a few points to make:

1. His typing in map chat disturbed a few players, especially as they were not expecting it, as the person typing was not on either team. This map chat disrupted their concentration and game play. (That is not a good thing to happen in a match).

2. That same partner was actually playing in that tournament, and went on to win. How is it fair or ethical that he could observe his competitors during all of that tournament? That could lead to match manipulation and cheating, and Anet is giving him the power to do that. It is almost like having a poker game with one person being able to see all the cards in other people's hands.

3. He was not given permission by a few people to shoutcast/observe them, they did not want this. There is an issue of privacy here. I understand some in the pvp community want to observe, but that is not true for everyone, and people deserve to have a choice (some people do not want to ever be shoutcasted/observed/streamed/recorded).

All ranked PvP matches (GvG and HoH) were automatically streamed in-game (with a delay) for GW1 if any of the participants were above a certain team rank. I think that greatly benefited the community and the game modes. It was just something that was built into the system (I don't know if it was immediately available, I started GW1 a short bit before Factions). I know in GW2 that system isn't present (at least yet), but maybe it would hype things up a bit if there was an automated stream for automated tournaments as there was before. No need for direct participation of partners to avoid conflicts of interest, and since you couldn't spectate live there would be no advantages. Of course, participation in the tournaments would be agreeing to this stream happening, as it would be automatic. Takes the pressure off the partners, the streams would be available to everyone equally so there would be no advantage available to those that might try to get one, etc.

That doesn't address the situation completely from the above post, but it would be a step. All depends on dev time and if it's a desired feature for this game.

@"itsbadcompany.7893" As far as I'm aware, he only said "hi" in map chat while spectating, not streaming. Are you sure this wasn't a bit of an over reaction on your teammate's part?

https://imgur.com/k4AEPqd

All of what Jebro said is correct.Also we always inform people of when we're in the match and will ask to stay and shoutcast it.In no way is anyone using it to manipulate matches (hopefully).I understand insecurities, but not everything revolves around one person. This was intended to grow the PvP Scene for more publicity, because not everyone can cover the AT Monthlies.Of course if anyone does stream, we'll put some delay.

Streams of the tournament are required to have a two minute delay. Partners abusing the feature will also be punished, so be sure to submit proof if you see that.

I loved this feature in GW1. It wasn't introduced at launch but shortly after and made the PvP a lot more exciting. You couldn't view builds other than seeing what skills people were using, and you could chat with other people viewing the matches too. Obviously there was a delay but there was no way people could interfere with matches. I'd love to see this implemented in GW2, clearly they have the ability to do it and there must be a reason why they don't.

1. @OlrunTheBlade.1486, you were not told the truth. You can see from my screencap that he did a lot more than just say hi, and this typing did disrupt players, their concentration, and the match. Notice I have not included any whispered chat, as that in my opinion should be respected as being private.

https://imgur.com/a/zlRQq

2. You will also notice that no permission was asked, and no permission was given.

3. The point of shoutcasting is to grow the PvP scene supposedly - but what has happened is that some players have been upset, and have been put off playing in Tournaments.

4. Choice and consideration need to be shown to Tournament entrants, and being streamed or shoutcasted should not be forced on them. Some players just want to play, and not be observed or broadcast (and judged, humiliated and trolled for their build, lack of skill etc).

@itsbadcompany.7893 said:

1. @OlrunTheBlade.1486, you were not told the truth. You can see from my screencap that he did a lot more than just say hi, and this typing did disrupt players, their concentration, and the match. Notice I have not included any whispered chat, as that in my opinion should be respected as being private.

https://imgur.com/a/zlRQq

2. You will also notice that no permission was asked, and no permission was given.

3. The point of shoutcasting is to grow the PvP scene supposedly - but what has happened is that some players have been upset, and have been put off playing in Tournaments.

4. Choice and consideration need to be shown to Tournament entrants, and being streamed or shoutcasted should not be forced on them. Some players just want to play, and not be observed or broadcast (and judged, humiliated and trolled for their build, lack of skill etc).

I'm pretty sure tournament as a public event, everyone has the right to observe you without your permission

I just don't get it. If anet would just do what they did in GW1, which is to have the game broadcast after the match has already been played. No need to shoutcast it at all.

Introducing a shoutcaster in real-time can be, in one way or another be used for match manipulation. A shoutcaster could just be in coms with one of the teams, and it'll give away certain builds, or point to where certain players are heading (in and out of stealth btw.)

Anyway who needs common sense, this is gw2, land of the burst home of the supertanky.

I don't see anything in your screenshot that could be taken as remotely disruptive. Also, participation in tournaments generally means you're consenting to being streamed. This hasn't been true for the mATs because of technical reasons, but if you ever participated in the Mistpedia Weeklies, AG Weeklies, Go4 Weeklies, ToLs, or Pro League, participants could all be streamed. I understand that in this particular case you may have entered the tournament unaware that you could be spectators, but you should assume as much if you enter future tournaments. It's a major way that ArenaNet markets the game. If you can't handle that, don't play in ATs. As far as I know, your team is the only one that has had issues with spectators, and my screenshot shows pretty well the frame of mind of the player complaining. I could link more, but I don't think anybody wants that. I have no issues linking PMs, though, since I do so with the recipient's permission. I will block out the names, though, to prevent it leading to any sort of harassment.

@itsbadcompany.7893 said:

1. @OlrunTheBlade.1486, you were not told the truth. You can see from my screencap that he did a lot more than just say hi, and this typing did disrupt players, their concentration, and the match. Notice I have not included any whispered chat, as that in my opinion should be respected as being private.

https://imgur.com/a/zlRQq

2. You will also notice that no permission was asked, and no permission was given.

3. The point of shoutcasting is to grow the PvP scene supposedly - but what has happened is that some players have been upset, and have been put off playing in Tournaments.

4. Choice and consideration need to be shown to Tournament entrants, and being streamed or shoutcasted should not be forced on them. Some players just want to play, and not be observed or broadcast (and judged, humiliated and trolled for their build, lack of skill etc).

You don't have a right to privacy. It is the same thing if a streamer gets into your match in a ranked Q. They can publicly display you in PvP matches without permission. ATs should not be any different because players are allowed to play in them while streaming so you can easily be against a streamer in an AT. Even in PvE raids or dungeons you could be with a streamer who can display you. So what are the real complaints of privacy? Builds are the only thing that can be compromised, and that could be an issue, though I highly doubt that build sniping makes any difference other than in the highest tier matches where the skill levels are comparable. So as a player I have never seen before, you have no real complaint against AT spectating. However some players like moobs who think their firebrand build is so innovative (as innovative as u can really be with a support guardian) have requested to not show build when streamed have somewhat more reason to. Though Jebro was denied permission to show builds, he has every other right to display the match publicly.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Rebroadcasting a GW2 match would be much more difficult than a GW1 match because of how much more is involved. Maybe in the future they will do something of the sort, but I doubt it.

On the topic of ghosting, it is possible. However, the number of partners allowed to use the system is fairly limited. Abuse of the system would be very risky for involved parties. I do hope it doesn't come to that, though.

I'm actually impressed and satisfied that this is going on. When did anet start allowing official streaming of ATs?

Two days ago.

@itsbadcompany.7893 said:

1. @OlrunTheBlade.1486, you were not told the truth. You can see from my screencap that he did a lot more than just say hi, and this typing did disrupt players, their concentration, and the match. Notice I have not included any whispered chat, as that in my opinion should be respected as being private.

https://imgur.com/a/zlRQq

2. You will also notice that no permission was asked, and no permission was given.

3. The point of shoutcasting is to grow the PvP scene supposedly - but what has happened is that some players have been upset, and have been put off playing in Tournaments.

4. Choice and consideration need to be shown to Tournament entrants, and being streamed or shoutcasted should not be forced on them. Some players just want to play, and not be observed or broadcast (and judged, humiliated and trolled for their build, lack of skill etc).

Disrupt? The match? I was in that match and wanted Marvin to stay and stream, but he left at around the 20-30 point mark. It was hardly disruptive. IIRC, his first message was sent before the match even began.

I'd advise your friend to stop harassing other players if she wants privacy. The last time I played against her, she was harassing my teammates and calling people names because we didn't go easy on them in an AT. On top of that, she's still harassing my friend. If she wants privacy, then maybe she should just calm down instead of sending stuff saying how she's crying and puking and stuff like this: https://imgur.com/03mfjow

My builds are top sekrit, nobody can view them. Those are the ones that allow me to consistently stay in Bronze after all.

@OlrunTheBlade.1486 said:I'd advise your friend to stop harassing other players if she wants privacy. The last time I played against her, she was harassing my teammates and calling people names because we didn't go easy on them in an AT. On top of that, she's still harassing my friend. If she wants privacy, then maybe she should just calm down instead of sending stuff saying how she's crying and puking and stuff like this: https://imgur.com/03mfjow

LOL, little does that person know they've been in streams a lot of times probably

Well, yeah. Helseth just streamed the uncensored version of that mail and tweeted it out like three times.

RIP privacy

That's what happens when you get stuck up about something--you end up exaggerating it.

The first issue was that ANET did not communicate with their players stating that this was going to be a new feature for shoutcasters. This is completely their fault for their lack of communication with their players-not even 1 forum post was made about this. Secondly, they released something and did not put any rules in about its use except apparently a 2 minute stream delay. People that were playing in that tournament were unaware of this and being streamed. ATs have never been a "public event"-just outside hosted tournaments that were advertised to be streamed. It is different if you go into it knowing that you are being streamed. Thirdly, thank you Jebro for hosting tournaments and trying to rebuild a completely broken pvp scene. This is obviously a rehack at the try to shoutcast high rank matches that failed before due to ANET's lack of effort causing people like BLU to run away and never return. Fourthly, as Whitworth said, this was a thing in GW1. You could see from first person perspective, but not look at builds. If a streamer gets into your match like in ranked queue they don't see your whole build. Being able to look at builds will ruin build diversity in the future as everyone will be running what they see winning. Additionally, some people enjoy running non-meta builds and the effort they put in to finding something better will just be wasted if everyone gets a free pass to look at amulets/sigils/runes/traits. I have no problem with a first/third person view and a built in delay. I think if they implement this in game for everyone, then it will be good for the game. Fifth, there is absolutely no reason someone observing should be able to talk in chat. None. It is disruptive. Anyone streaming can talk to their people or use their stream chat but there is no reason to have the observer map chat option either. 6th, the replays should be made available until the next instance of that tournament so other people can watch them at their leisure.

I think as it stands, there is a definite possibility to have a variety of negative repercussions from this, seeing as the gw2 pvp scene now has a long and sustained reputation for compromised integrity.

@Salvo.8290 said:Fourthly, as Whitworth said, this was a thing in GW1. You could see from first person perspective, but not look at builds. If a streamer gets into your match like in ranked queue they don't see your whole build. Being able to look at builds will ruin build diversity in the future as everyone will be running what they see winning. Additionally, some people enjoy running non-meta builds and the effort they put in to finding something better will just be wasted if everyone gets a free pass to look at amulets/sigils/runes/traits. I have no problem with a first/third person view and a built in delay. I think if they implement this in game for everyone, then it will be good for the game. Fifth, there is absolutely no reason someone observing should be able to talk in chat. None. It is disruptive. Anyone streaming can talk to their people or use their stream chat but there is no reason to have the observer map chat option either. 6th, the replays should be made available until the next instance of that tournament so other people can watch them at their leisure.

you are aware that metabattle.com exists and is way more accessible than an arenanet partnership? Calm down because no one wants to run your off meta dagger dagger soulbeast anyway.

Cool story. Thanks for your contribution. Go roleplay.