Breaking the Boon Meta — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Breaking the Boon Meta

Rather than buffing the boon meta even more to open up spots on teams (that will only be filled with DPS spots anyway), why not nerf the current boon meta so that boon builds become a choice, rather than a mandate?

Alacrity: 25% instead of 33%
Frost Spirit: 50% chance to give 5% bonus
Grace of the Land: 1% damage bonus, 1% condition bonus, 5 stack max, 12s duration
Might: 25 or 20 power instead of 30
Quickness: 33% or 25% instead of 50%
Sun Spirit: 50% chance to apply 2 stacks of burning

Hit Spotter, Empower Allies, and similar abilities with a drop from 150 to 100 (150 for assassin’s presence). Drop banners to +100, too. All of that works with lower DPS on boonbots to make them a choice, not a mandate, and hopefully open up the meta.

Comments

  • Why not? The value of the boon meta now is that it grants far more DPS than it costs. Reduce that grant to be more in line with the cost and you create a meta where you don’t need boonbots at all.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Why not? The value of the boon meta now is that it grants far more DPS than it costs. Reduce that grant to be more in line with the cost and you create a meta where you don’t need boonbots at all.

    I'd certainly hope that supports provided more dps than the DPS themselves given that they are sacrificing for the greater good and not playing greed.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The value of boon meta is that it creates gameplay that isn't "fire off all your damage skills". It creates different roles in the team by having cross-class/build synergies. It makes the game an actual multiplayer instead of a some sort of "time-shared single player".

  • For balance, they should provide no more team DPS than what they give up personally. So if they give up 20k, they should give out 2k in boons to 10 squad members. Perfect balance may not be the goal, so give them a token benefit over that, but nothing like the massive benefits they offer now.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    For balance, they should provide no more team DPS than what they give up personally. So if they give up 20k, they should give out 2k in boons to 10 squad members. Perfect balance may not be the goal, so give them a token benefit over that, but nothing like the massive benefits they offer now.

    Here's the problem with that: if you don't reward the sacrifice in personal dps properly, it makes no sense to make it. Why bother building a support which relies on having a group to do the dps when you can go dps and do equally well both in group and solo?

  • Cuon Alpinus.7645Cuon Alpinus.7645 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2017

    What would this accomplish? Did you actually think this through, or did you just slap numbers together because you thought they feel good?
    Why objectively make the raid experience worse? This won't get rid of the holy mirror trinity, as you'd still need these buffs for optimal play- it would only make things harder and slower. By specifically targeting boons, you're severely hurting the DPS builds as well, not just the Support builds. And your argument against the 10-man is that the remaining 3 slots would just "fill up with DPS builds anyway." So let me get this straight: you don't want more slots available to DPS, but you ALSO want to drastically nerf supports? What's your goal here? To force every party member to be a suboptimal hybrid support/dps build?

    The reason people suggest the 5 > 10 man buff is because it removes the need for the mirror without damaging your ability to clear. With the three extra slots, people would be able to experiment with hybrid builds to cover gaps in support rotations, to maximize dps for hyper-optimal runs, or to cover lost bonuses should boons be balanced around the 10 man buff. But that's the thing- they're BALANCE changes, not "make everything better" or "make everything worse" changes.

    Permanently Embiggened

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All this would do is create even more pressure to bring top tier dps since the entire raid now suffers from lack of damage of utilitie buffs.

    Nerfing something does not more value create. If you leave the requirements unchanged in the raid, any loss of efficiency will be bought at a high price.

    Following though example: best would actually be to balance utility skills for 10 man groups. That way no 2 classes of mesmer, ranger or warrior would be required. In the end, buffing the 3 support classes would far better achieve the result of more class diversity than nerfing them.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    said it on the necro forum already. while the intention is good ... the outcome is super boring. because we are going back to stacking 4 warrior + 1 mesmer (pre HoT)... difference is probably instead of warrior it is going to be 4-5 weaver ... in terms of raids: 8 weaver + heal + tank in the extreme of extreme cases.

    that would boost the discrimination vs classes even more. atleast thats what i fear

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    For balance, they should provide no more team DPS than what they give up personally. So if they give up 20k, they should give out 2k in boons to 10 squad members. Perfect balance may not be the goal, so give them a token benefit over that, but nothing like the massive benefits they offer now.

    You're assuming this isnt currently the case, I'd argue its pretty dang close to the case.

    If you rate each support (druid/chrono/war) the combined increase in DPS from all of these is roughly 10-12k ? that's 4k each which isn't some earth-shattering number given that a personal dps role can crank out near 30k with minor issues. Meaning these guys who don't come close to that are giving about what the currently lose out on.

  • Why would you want to nerf boons?
    Even if you nerf them, you would still take them over everything else. I'd rather have 50% quickness than no quickness, 25% alacrity than no alacrity

  • savacli.8172savacli.8172 Member ✭✭✭

    @nextgen.3750 said:
    Why would you want to nerf boons?
    Even if you nerf them, you would still take them over everything else. I'd rather have 50% quickness than no quickness, 25% alacrity than no alacrity

    ^ This

    To fulfill what OP is asking you would have to nerf boons to the ground or remove them altogether. At that point you would take away all diversity. Remember the 5 Warrior meta when the game first released? No other class was needed since a warrior running 5 signets at the time was about as strong as it gets so why not run 5 of them? Same thing would happen to raids in that players would find the single best class for the encounter and then just stack that. Sure, you may have diversity across encounters, but you would end up with something like 10 Power Holo's on VG or 10 Condi Mirages on Matthias.

    While not perfect, the "Boon meta" does place DPS builds within close enough of a margin where its viable to take a handful of DPS classes on any given encounter.

  • The goal is to change the meta from “you have 4 spots to fill” to “you have 10 spots to fill” by bringing boon performance (X) more inline with individual performance (Y). The closer X is to Y, the less value the boon meta has. I’m not against expanding boons to 10 people as the standard, either, just making sure that the value doesn’t unreasonably exceed the commitment.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    The goal is to change the meta from “you have 4 spots to fill” to “you have 10 spots to fill” by bringing boon performance (X) more inline with individual performance (Y). The closer X is to Y, the less value the boon meta has. I’m not against expanding boons to 10 people as the standard, either, just making sure that the value doesn’t unreasonably exceed the commitment.

    As said before, why would anyone bother with a support who brings the same net DPS as an actual dedicated DPS, but is total trash outside group play by comparison?

    A support relies on his allies doing their duties properly to benefit from that support. A sole DPS player only relies on himself.

    What's more, in order to nerf druid you are royally screwing over all other ranger builds which are plain mediocre at the moment. Ranger spirits are terrible in pvp and wvw, and you want to make them obsolete kitten in PvE as well where the spirits only have marginal value in a group while being made completely useless solo.

  • The thing about the boon meta is that every either every profession should be able to participate in it so that you can puzzle out successful comps that don't require specific classes to bring certain buffs, or every boon skill should be rebalanced to function like Hard Light Arena where it gives more benefit to the caster over allies. No wishiwashiness between "this profession brings absolutely required utility to groups" and "this profession's utility would be overpowered when applied to groups."

  • vicious.5683vicious.5683 Member ✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    Making something useless isn't creating a choice.

    Ofc it is. They made Necromancers useless and now everyone CHOOSE not to bring them to raids.

  • @Feanor.2358 said:

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    For balance, they should provide no more team DPS than what they give up personally. So if they give up 20k, they should give out 2k in boons to 10 squad members. Perfect balance may not be the goal, so give them a token benefit over that, but nothing like the massive benefits they offer now.

    Here's the problem with that: if you don't reward the sacrifice in personal dps properly, it makes no sense to make it. Why bother building a support which relies on having a group to do the dps when you can go dps and do equally well both in group and solo?

    I’m all for rewarding the sacrifice of personal DPS. Just don’t make the reward so overwhelming that there literally is no substitute.

  • Belenwyn.8674Belenwyn.8674 Member ✭✭
    edited October 27, 2017

    To counter a boon meta you have to begin with the mob and encounter design. Boon stealing, corrupting or removing enemies would be a very effective counter. You can adjust which boons will be addressed and the length of the neutralised boons. You could have encounters with 50% uptime for alacrity and might or only 20 %.

    Clever designed encounters would vary the importance of certain boons. For encounter A you would need a high uptime and strength for regeneration, protection and resistance whereas might plays no big role. Encounter B could favor high uptime for might.

    Instead of mindless boon spamming for 100% uptime encounters should encourage a situational usage of certain boons.

  • savacli.8172savacli.8172 Member ✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    The goal is to change the meta from “you have 4 spots to fill” to “you have 10 spots to fill” by bringing boon performance (X) more inline with individual performance (Y). The closer X is to Y, the less value the boon meta has. I’m not against expanding boons to 10 people as the standard, either, just making sure that the value doesn’t unreasonably exceed the commitment.

    To "fix that you indeed would have to increase boon/buff availability to other classes. As in right now you have 3/5 party members bringing every possible combination of boons and buffs that a party could potentially need. That's not so much a problem with the boons/buffs themselves but rather the access that classes have to them. While I do agree that there should be a certain degree of class exclusivity when it comes to a unique buff of sort I believe every class should have something unique that makes them compelling/attractive. As in Chrono has Alacrity why not give another class an Alacrity-esque buff. It doesn't have to work exactly like Alacrity but said esque buff should work in a similar manner in regards to affecting cooldowns.

    Alternatively (or additionally), you could spread out the currently available buffs so that other classes have a shot at filling the role. E.G. Support Renegade grants 25 stacks of might, minor healing and okay-ish Alacrity. Firebrand provides some Quickness uptime, block uptime, and healing in a pinch. both these classes are moving in a good direction as far as spreading support but obviously there not quite competitive enough to be handed the torch.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    Banners, EA, frost spirit and all special buffs should be converted to boons.

  • Walhalla.5473Walhalla.5473 Member ✭✭✭

    Poorly thought out suggestion. What do you hope to accomplish by this? What sort of meta do you want to create with this?

    This here just looks like " Don't like it, nerf it by some random numbers"

  • Nerfing boons doesn't change the boon meta, it just makes it worse. If you want to avoid "permanently stacking" boons then you need to hit their durations, but even that wouldn't honestly do much other than limit group compositions since there are so many sources for the various necessary boons.

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  • Not worried about boon duration, just about balance between classes. Support should be approximately as valuable as any other category.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Not worried about boon duration, just about balance between classes. Support should be approximately as valuable as any other category.

    That will never be the case in 10 man raids. This is the same as any other raid MMO with raids of this size.

    You will always have a necessity of minimum support classes (be it healers, tanks, or what ever) to provide what ever the raid design requires. The rest gets filled up with damage dealers. This is what every meta always comes back to. At a size of 10 players, this will just about always come down to 50-60% support classes, rest damage dealers.

    Creating more demand for support characters does exactly the opposite of reducing the demand for them.

    For example, by halfing the provided alacrity and quickness (as example), the current meta would shift from 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS to 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS, 2 firebrand and 2 renegade. Both Firebrand and Renegade would have to cover the missing alacrity and quickness and bringing 4 chronos would not be an option due to to much damage loss (or the meta would change to 4 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS and 2 damage dealers). Both results are far more restricting than what we have now.

    The easiest solution to a problem (class to strong, must nerf) is not always the one which leads to a desired result. The desired result (more flexibility in raid slots) goes contrary to the effect (less demand for class x) because nothing as far as requirements of the raid design were changed.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Not worried about boon duration, just about balance between classes. Support should be approximately as valuable as any other category.

    That will never be the case in 10 man raids. This is the same as any other raid MMO with raids of this size.

    You will always have a necessity of minimum support classes (be it healers, tanks, or what ever) to provide what ever the raid design requires. The rest gets filled up with damage dealers. This is what every meta always comes back to. At a size of 10 players, this will just about always come down to 50-60% support classes, rest damage dealers.

    Creating more demand for support characters does exactly the opposite of reducing the demand for them.

    For example, by halfing the provided alacrity and quickness (as example), the current meta would shift from 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS to 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS, 2 firebrand and 2 renegade. Both Firebrand and Renegade would have to cover the missing alacrity and quickness and bringing 4 chronos would not be an option due to to much damage loss (or the meta would change to 4 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS and 2 damage dealers). Both results are far more restricting than what we have now.

    Reducing the effect is not reducing the duration, so I’m not sure where you’re going here? Reiterating that I don’t care about duration at all. 100% duration is fine, 10-person boons are fine, but the value of that support needs to be normalized.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly removing concentration and gear that provides boon duration from the game (along with expertise and condi duration gear) would be a step in the right direction in my opinion. It shouldn't be so easy to stack permanent boons, especially by a single player. As much as I love chronomancer, it should be impossible for 1 chrono to stack 100% quickness uptime by themselves.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately once they put those stats in, it all goes to hell.

    They did the same with expertise and conditon classes. Ferocity is there as well. They should have stuck with power and precision as universal offensive stats and rebalanced conditions so they can crit.

    Splitting condition damage from power just created way too many balance problems, as did the introduction of boon duration and healing power. Balance the kitten baseline values and it gets a lot easier than having to deal with so much variability in gear combinations.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Not worried about boon duration, just about balance between classes. Support should be approximately as valuable as any other category.

    That will never be the case in 10 man raids. This is the same as any other raid MMO with raids of this size.

    You will always have a necessity of minimum support classes (be it healers, tanks, or what ever) to provide what ever the raid design requires. The rest gets filled up with damage dealers. This is what every meta always comes back to. At a size of 10 players, this will just about always come down to 50-60% support classes, rest damage dealers.

    Creating more demand for support characters does exactly the opposite of reducing the demand for them.

    For example, by halfing the provided alacrity and quickness (as example), the current meta would shift from 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS to 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS, 2 firebrand and 2 renegade. Both Firebrand and Renegade would have to cover the missing alacrity and quickness and bringing 4 chronos would not be an option due to to much damage loss (or the meta would change to 4 chronos, 2 druids, 2 cPS and 2 damage dealers). Both results are far more restricting than what we have now.

    Reducing the effect is not reducing the duration, so I’m not sure where you’re going here? Reiterating that I don’t care about duration at all. 100% duration is fine, 10-person boons are fine, but the value of that support needs to be normalized.

    The result remains almost the same, reducing the effectiveness of the utility will increase the pressure on the damdage dealers.

    Even with your suggested changes, some benfit is better than no benefit.

    Best case some of the now mandatory support classes get exchanged by others (say healing tempest for druid, firebrand+renegade for mesmer). The overall result becomes more toxic and more restrictive.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mygamingid.5816 said:

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    For balance, they should provide no more team DPS than what they give up personally. So if they give up 20k, they should give out 2k in boons to 10 squad members. Perfect balance may not be the goal, so give them a token benefit over that, but nothing like the massive benefits they offer now.

    Here's the problem with that: if you don't reward the sacrifice in personal dps properly, it makes no sense to make it. Why bother building a support which relies on having a group to do the dps when you can go dps and do equally well both in group and solo?

    I’m all for rewarding the sacrifice of personal DPS. Just don’t make the reward so overwhelming that there literally is no substitute.

    There's no way around. You either outweigh the sacrificed personal dps or the sacrifice becomes meaningless. Because you're trading unconditional performance for conditional one, which is always inferior.

  • even now taking 3rd dps instead of druid is almost no difference in dps. nerf druid buffs and you just eliminate it from comp.
    the answer is to make the buffs affect 10 ppl so comps can get more varied. and maybe then nerf their effects to prevent power creep

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  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    My question is why did we move to special effects that exist outside of boons and we can have them for 100% of the encounter in the first place? The boon system was fine there wasnt need for unique modifiers and class specific effects. At least not effects that you can upkeep for 100%. Effects that have small upkeep time and are powerful would be fine.

  • Malediktus.9250Malediktus.9250 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I very much like the 4 dps, 2 druid, 2 chrono and 2 ps war meta. No need to change anything

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 28, 2017

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Not worried about boon duration, just about balance between classes. Support should be approximately as valuable as any other category.

    And here's the crux of th problem: in order for support to be a reasonable option, it has to offer more than you sacifice to get it. Why? Because getting the most of your support build requires top performance not only from you, but also from everyone else in your group.

    Basically, if 10x dps group can dish out the same damage (and have the same survivability/etc) as a hybrid group, then you should take the dps group all the time. It's easier to create (you basically don't have to worry about role synnergy), and individual mistakes only create loss of dps for that person, and do not impact the performance of other players.

    If following your suggestion, then taking support would end up as an option where you needlessly complicate things for no gain at all. As such, it would be inferior to no-support choice.

    @Feanor.2358 said:
    There's no way around. You either outweigh the sacrificed personal dps or the sacrifice becomes meaningless. Because you're trading unconditional performance for conditional one, which is always inferior.

    So, basically this.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Malediktus.9250 said:
    I very much like the 4 dps, 2 druid, 2 chrono and 2 ps war meta. No need to change anything

    Agree, and as long as 1 of those 4 dps is Renegade I'm set!!! ;)

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭

    people talking about nerfing boons making allot of stuff and builds weak or useless/bad....

    then you remember necros don't even have the 80% of the ingame boons.......

  • savacli.8172savacli.8172 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:
    people talking about nerfing boons making allot of stuff and builds weak or useless/bad....

    then you remember necros don't even have the 80% of the ingame boons.......

    Necro's have access to Might, Regen, Protection, Stab, Fury, Retaliation, and Swiftness
    The only one's that they don't have access to are Aegis, Quickness, Resistance, and Vigor. Though you could get those through converting conditions.

    Weird...that's doesn't seem like 80%

  • Crinn.7864Crinn.7864 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2017

    @savacli.8172 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:
    people talking about nerfing boons making allot of stuff and builds weak or useless/bad....

    then you remember necros don't even have the 80% of the ingame boons.......

    Necro's have access to Might, Regen, Protection, Stab, Fury, Retaliation, and Swiftness
    The only one's that they don't have access to are Aegis, Quickness, Resistance, and Vigor. Though you could get those through converting conditions.

    Weird...that's doesn't seem like 80%

    Ahhh yes, the mightly spite/soul reaping/blood magic/curses/scourge build with warhorn, focus, and staff.

    Sarcasm aside, boon uptime is more important than boon access.

    Necromancers can only do 25 stacks of might on either a scourge build or a spite+reaper build. And the spite reaper can only do 25 stacks when hitting a target below 50% HP.
    Necros have 1 source of Fury on the entire class and it's uptime is pitiful.
    Necros can only do protection on a wells build and even then have to stack boon duration in order to get good uptimes out of it.
    Necro has 1 source of retal and the uptime is worse than our fury.
    Necro's only regen source is staff2 and focus4. But that regen is actually detrimental because it might overwrite the stronger regen from a support.
    Necro swiftness comes from either warhorn5 or Speed of Shadows, and again the uptime is meh in a real environment.
    Necro Stability, just lol.

    Condi-to-boon conversion is not boon access. You do not have control on what condis are applied to you, so conversion is not a reliable boon source. Moreover condi-to-boon conversion gives very low durations.

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  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crinn.7864 said:

    @savacli.8172 said:

    @Zoltreez.6435 said:
    people talking about nerfing boons making allot of stuff and builds weak or useless/bad....

    then you remember necros don't even have the 80% of the ingame boons.......

    Necro's have access to Might, Regen, Protection, Stab, Fury, Retaliation, and Swiftness
    The only one's that they don't have access to are Aegis, Quickness, Resistance, and Vigor. Though you could get those through converting conditions.

    Weird...that's doesn't seem like 80%

    Ahhh yes, the mightly spite/soul reaping/blood magic/curses/scourge build with warhorn, focus, and staff.

    Sarcasm aside, boon uptime is more important than boon access.

    Necromancers can only do 25 stacks of might on either a scourge build or a spite+reaper build. And the spite reaper can only do 25 stacks when hitting a target below 50% HP.
    Necros have 1 source of Fury on the entire class and it's uptime is pitiful.
    Necros can only do protection on a wells build and even then have to stack boon duration in order to get good uptimes out of it.
    Necro has 1 source of retal and the uptime is worse than our fury.
    Necro's only regen source is staff2 and focus4. But that regen is actually detrimental because it might overwrite the stronger regen from a support.
    Necro swiftness comes from either warhorn5 or Speed of Shadows, and again the uptime is meh in a real environment.
    Necro Stability, just lol.

    Condi-to-boon conversion is not boon access. You do not have control on what condis are applied to you, so conversion is not a reliable boon source. Moreover condi-to-boon conversion gives very low durations.

    I teared up...really. :(

  • Shiyo.3578Shiyo.3578 Member ✭✭✭

    Please stop nerfing boons. Supports are fun to have in MMO's and this is an rpg, it should retain RPG elements.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Why break a meta that is revolved around one of the core systems of the game?

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2017

    Breaking the boon meta? Put bosses/mobs that copy boons from players every second. Also make them like a scourge: aoe corrupting boons into conditions every second.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed. You might actually have a bit of an issue to be accepted into a squad if you are trying to join as the second support of "x class" right now. The only real exception being the chronomancers.
    The majority of the spots will still be taken by which ever DPS option is supposed to be best for the current encounters if you were going to go for the outmost efficiency which comes down to proper speed in the end.

    Don't really see why any further nerfs would be needed unless the goal was to completely remove those supports. Nor do I see why anyone would want mechanics which punish you for actually playing well. This includes boon uptime as much as dodges, blocks or positioning.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed.

    Yes. From 6/4 we went to 4/6 that's an obvious improvement but we need a bit more

  • Rezzet.3614Rezzet.3614 Member ✭✭✭

    Op isnt thinking things through and worse said nerfs would make the already op condi meta more broken youd now have boons that are only good used against you when corrupted

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed.

    Yes. From 6/4 we went to 4/6 that's an obvious improvement but we need a bit more

    We dont really. What we need is for fb to be a viable solo quickness stacker.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed.

    Yes. From 6/4 we went to 4/6 that's an obvious improvement but we need a bit more

    We dont really. What we need is for fb to be a viable solo quickness stacker.

    Do we really need that ?

    I mean of all the things i could think of the balance team needing to do that's on the bottom rung right there next to buffing ele.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed.

    Yes. From 6/4 we went to 4/6 that's an obvious improvement but we need a bit more

    We dont really. What we need is for fb to be a viable solo quickness stacker.

    Do we really need that ?

    I mean of all the things i could think of the balance team needing to do that's on the bottom rung right there next to buffing ele.

    If not that then the meta is in a perfect state and what needs to happen is bugf the underperforming dps specs abit.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What's ur exp in raid mygamingid

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    The recent changes opened up the META quite a bit. The old "6/4 - support/DPS" balance is no longer needed.

    Yes. From 6/4 we went to 4/6 that's an obvious improvement but we need a bit more

    I seem to miss how 1-2 supports + something like 8-9x current top DPS (so either weaver or mirage for the most part) would be a more open and "better" META.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

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