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Why not make clones and mesmer do the same power damage?


Nabbut.7480

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I do think this would be a good idea as an optional balance element. Like if you pick a clone-based trait, it wouldn't be that they do identical damage to you (because roughly quartering your base damage would be super weird), but it would be split more evenly, so that if you picked that trait, it might reduce the base Mesmer damage by say 40%, but give each Clone a damage buff equivalent to 20% of your damage, so with two clones out you break even, and with three you get an edge, set-up cost => reward. I mean, they might need to tweak those numbers a bit to reach the right balance, but in principle I think it's an interesting idea.

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Clones only have 1 attack skill... So I like the idea, but I'm not sure how to balance that out as clones attack once every 3-5 seconds, while the mesmer can use several skills in that time window. For this to work I think the clones would at least need access to the full aa rotation, but without spawning a clone on the third hit (scepter aa *3) for instance. It could also be interesting if damage was split ~equally~ between mesmer and clones with a slight advantage to the mesmer :) 1 clone is 60/40 split between mesmer/clone, 2 clones is 40/30/30 between mesmer and clones and 3 clones is 31/23/23/23. Or something along those lines.

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@"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:Clones only have 1 attack skill... So I like the idea, but I'm not sure how to balance that out as clones attack once every 3-5 seconds, while the mesmer can use several skills in that time window.

Well, they could balance it either way. They could either make it so that the Clone's AA attack deals way more damage than a player's AA, but it balances out, OR they could make it so that the clone does more attacks. The point is, the Clone would deal "X amount of DPS," however they reach that number is fine.

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@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:(hint: you do not have 100% uptime on 3 clones)

Damn, that gives me the most amazing idea for an elite spec. I mean I'd call it the Mirage because that trainwreck might just work out this way, but what if:

  • You always have 3 clones up. They swap weapons as you do.
  • If you shatter, the clones will re-appear soon after.
  • All shatter skills also have a short (5-10 seconds) shared CD to prevent 1-2-3-4 spam.
  • Clones always instantly swap target with you auto-attacking something you have targeted.
  • Phantasms briefly replace a clone, do their attack once, then turn back into a clone. In return their attack is stronger.
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Cause it will blur (heh) the distinction between Phantasm and Clone. I mean it would be great and add some DPS, but it doesn't really add much. If Phantasms still end up doing more damage than Clones then it will be the same summon 3 iSwordsman and forget playstyle. If it ends up otherwise, then it's just the same thing but with Sword Clones.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:(hint: you do not have 100% uptime on 3 clones)

kitten, that gives me
the
most amazing idea for an elite spec. I mean I'd call it the Mirage because that trainwreck might just work out this way, but what if:
  • You always have 3 clones up. They swap weapons as you do.
  • If you shatter, the clones will re-appear soon after.
  • All shatter skills also have a short (5-10 seconds) shared CD to prevent 1-2-3-4 spam.
  • Clones always instantly swap target with you auto-attacking something you have targeted.
  • Phantasms briefly replace a clone, do their attack once, then turn back into a clone. In return their attack is stronger.

Yes, please. This is actually a really interesting idea. It would make mirage differ from base mes in terms of class mechanics (just like scourge differs from base nec, for example)

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Guys lets be real here, mesmer auto attacks are already among the worst in the game. Its not like the clones would be dealing any significant amounts of damage if they matched our power level, since they just perform auto attacks. Dealing too much damage is not a reason to not implement this, because its simply not true. Phantasms would still outdamage clones, and clones would still be paper.

That said, as I understand it, we used to have clones like this and then they were removed because Anet thought it was too powerful? If that's true than I can't see it coming back, sadly.

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Pretty much since we have terrible damage with autos why not let a trait buff clones to deal similar damage anyway, it's not going to make mesmers OP all of a sudden lol, it might make us a little more competitive and also create a reason why opponents don't just ignore all the clones and phantasms and go after the mesmer player only. It might blur the lines between phantasm and clone indeed which could be interesting...

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From a PvP perspective I've been curious how well it would go down current day if we let illusions do damage (like 500 a hit on a power build)

However with what the topic suggests we'd lose DPS.

But hey, if we're doing well on DPS charts now, I would not be opposed to this nerf since it gives more functionality to our mechanic, since apart from shatters they are only decent for stacking condis.

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@Daishi.6027 said:From a PvP perspective I've been curious how well it would go down current day if we let illusions do damage (like 500 a hit on a power build)

However with what the topic suggests we'd lose DPS.

But hey, if we're doing well on DPS charts now, I would not be opposed to this nerf since it gives more functionality to our mechanic, since apart from shatters they are only decent for stacking condis.

Considering clones/illusions don't take our multipliers it would end up just being an overall nerf to damage output.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:(hint: you do not have 100% uptime on 3 clones)

kitten, that gives me
the
most amazing idea for an elite spec. I mean I'd call it the Mirage because that trainwreck might just work out this way, but what if:
  • You always have 3 clones up. They swap weapons as you do.
  • If you shatter, the clones will re-appear soon after.
  • All shatter skills also have a short (5-10 seconds) shared CD to prevent 1-2-3-4 spam.
  • Clones always instantly swap target with you auto-attacking something you have targeted.
  • Phantasms briefly replace a clone, do their attack once, then turn back into a clone. In return their attack is stronger.

That's amazing - far more appealing than current mirage.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:(hint: you do not have 100% uptime on 3 clones)

kitten, that gives me
the
most amazing idea for an elite spec. I mean I'd call it the Mirage because that trainwreck might just work out this way, but what if:
  • You always have 3 clones up. They swap weapons as you do.
  • If you shatter, the clones will re-appear soon after.
  • All shatter skills also have a short (5-10 seconds) shared CD to prevent 1-2-3-4 spam.
  • Clones always instantly swap target with you auto-attacking something you have targeted.
  • Phantasms briefly replace a clone, do their attack once, then turn back into a clone. In return their attack is stronger.

This sounds really FUN.... therefore I am quite sure we will never get something like this.

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@Levetty.1279 said:Thats how it worked in the beta of the core game. Then they removed the damage from clones for no reason and left the damage of the Mesmer the same. Thats why none of our attacks hit hard.

Because in the Beta people couldn't instantly tell who the real Mesmer were and they were getting omfgwtf overwhelmed so it was considered cancerous. Once players had more than a weekend to play the game, they realized that it was pretty easy to find the real Mesmer instantly.

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@paShadoWn.5723 said:Clones in this game are already nerfed in that they all not spawn simultaneously like in Naruto but the point is that there is a disparage of power clones doing almost no damage as opposed to condition ones, so moving some power dmg from 1 to clones seems a sensible thing to do.

Hell no! Do not make our auto attacks even weaker. Clones should just have their damage buffed, they shouldn't steal some of our personal damage.

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@Esplen.3940 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:Thats how it worked in the beta of the core game. Then they removed the damage from clones for no reason and left the damage of the Mesmer the same. Thats why none of our attacks hit hard.

Because in the Beta people couldn't instantly tell who the real Mesmer were and they were getting omfgwtf overwhelmed so it was considered cancerous. Once players had more than a weekend to play the game, they realized that it was pretty easy to find the real Mesmer instantly.

Yeah and due to this there's really no harm in giving it back to clones. Would be great to see that happen.

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