It it me or is guild wars losing it's diversity and direction? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

It it me or is guild wars losing it's diversity and direction?

I have really enjoyed some of this game and at times loathed much of it. For me Halloween aka Mad King was fun. And that's where I had an opportunity to look back at the old vs the new.

Mobs are losing their identity. What I mean by this, is every mob has some form of a ranged attack and can be tough in close or far range. I really don't like this particular change to NPC's in general. There should be a diversity of close combat mobs and ranged mobs that don't intermix. This allows player to utilize their weapons/ skills to the fight, if all of the mobs hit hard no matter how you fight them then it becomes a race to do the most damage.

Too much projectile hate. This just goes for mobs and many special abilities that are outright broken. For instance smokescale/ smogscale/ dust lions all have some for of an AOE projectile field that no projectiles can hit them in it (even when your outside the field and not affected by the blind). A veteran Smokescale can one shot a full health character with it's opening attack. The abilities have long durations and little downtime. Dust lions added long duration knock downs to this annoyance. Though to be fair their field isn't as long lasting as the smokescale.

Every awakened undead applies slow/ cripple combo for super long durations. Not to mention the one that bursts out of the ground and can down you in one attack since knock down takes way too long to recover from.

Look at two condi's they buffed torment and confusion, and how many of the new mobs use those particular condi's.

I'm concerned with the constant escalation of damage and health of mobs. And this leads to a massive balance problem with the entire gameplay, Veterans that are worse than champions is now a here to stay problem (you can thank HoT being about group play for that one), but it's not just there you can find basic mobs that put vets to shame, then there's champions that are worse than world bosses. It's really starting to feel like there is no balance or more accurately keeping the mobs in check when it comes to gameplay. I would like to see a return to some semblance of balance and mob type, though at this point we already have had an entire expansion where this was ignored.

I enjoy the game for much of the time I play and this is where I'm torn. If I quit, that's it. I won't come back as nostalgia for the old isn't what I like spending time on.

I do hope this game does get back to basics with less muddying of the water, only time will tell. Better gameplay should be more important than a new shiny.

<1

Comments

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That 2nd line I'm soooo annoyed with.
    One you forgot mentioned also was the Chak and the Branded earth elementals in PoF

  • Haishao.6851Haishao.6851 Member ✭✭✭

    Now I want to know what champion is worse than a world boss.

  • nah just pay 60$$ and become a god.

  • masskillerxploit.2165masskillerxploit.2165 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    I don't agree with any of the assessment.

    I think part of a growing / changing game is getting players to learn and adapt. No one should take range only options nor melee only. You should learn to carry a stunbreak/condi cleanse or transfer.

    Unfortunately people don't for some reason realize this and would rather complain about "hard Open World content" when its equally as challenging as GW1 only back there you actually adapted and changed your builds/comp accordingly.

    First off Guild Wars 2's hardest PvE content is baby tier easy compared to HM areas in Gw1 or Raids in WoW. This isn't about diversity in having 3 or more builds being viable, its rather certain skills/weps out shine the hell out of most weps or skills available. Power creep is the cause of this, and anet struggling financially.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @troops.8276 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    I don't agree with any of the assessment.

    I think part of a growing / changing game is getting players to learn and adapt. No one should take range only options nor melee only. You should learn to carry a stunbreak/condi cleanse or transfer.

    Unfortunately people don't for some reason realize this and would rather complain about "hard Open World content" when its equally as challenging as GW1 only back there you actually adapted and changed your builds/comp accordingly.

    "Growing/changing". That makes it sound like some deep personal growth. They opened a new wing to the themepark and the new ride is called 'aoe/condi'. Yeh it grew bigger but c'mon man....it's still shallow af.

    I mean you say this but how big was that Eater of Souls thread again ?

  • troops.8276troops.8276 Member ✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @troops.8276 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    I don't agree with any of the assessment.

    I think part of a growing / changing game is getting players to learn and adapt. No one should take range only options nor melee only. You should learn to carry a stunbreak/condi cleanse or transfer.

    Unfortunately people don't for some reason realize this and would rather complain about "hard Open World content" when its equally as challenging as GW1 only back there you actually adapted and changed your builds/comp accordingly.

    "Growing/changing". That makes it sound like some deep personal growth. They opened a new wing to the themepark and the new ride is called 'aoe/condi'. Yeh it grew bigger but c'mon man....it's still shallow af.

    I mean you say this but how big was that Eater of Souls thread again ?

    Is this misdirection?

  • Ayakaru.6583Ayakaru.6583 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every expansion is getting easier.
    The world is no longer alive.
    Race is no longer relevant.....
    I fear you may be right

    To defeat the dragons, see the good in them.
    Zhaitan reunites lost ones, primordus creates fertile land, mordremoth spreads the green, and jormag..
    ..jormag? Who's that?

  • Fallesafe.5932Fallesafe.5932 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I have really enjoyed some of this game and at times loathed much of it. For me Halloween aka Mad King was fun. And that's where I had an opportunity to look back at the old vs the new.

    Mobs are losing their identity. What I mean by this, is every mob has some form of a ranged attack and can be tough in close or far range. I really don't like this particular change to NPC's in general. There should be a diversity of close combat mobs and ranged mobs that don't intermix. This allows player to utilize their weapons/ skills to the fight, if all of the mobs hit hard no matter how you fight them then it becomes a race to do the most damage.

    Too much projectile hate. This just goes for mobs and many special abilities that are outright broken. For instance smokescale/ smogscale/ dust lions all have some for of an AOE projectile field that no projectiles can hit them in it (even when your outside the field and not affected by the blind). A veteran Smokescale can one shot a full health character with it's opening attack. The abilities have long durations and little downtime. Dust lions added long duration knock downs to this annoyance. Though to be fair their field isn't as long lasting as the smokescale.

    Every awakened undead applies slow/ cripple combo for super long durations. Not to mention the one that bursts out of the ground and can down you in one attack since knock down takes way too long to recover from.

    Look at two condi's they buffed torment and confusion, and how many of the new mobs use those particular condi's.

    I'm concerned with the constant escalation of damage and health of mobs. And this leads to a massive balance problem with the entire gameplay, Veterans that are worse than champions is now a here to stay problem (you can thank HoT being about group play for that one), but it's not just there you can find basic mobs that put vets to shame, then there's champions that are worse than world bosses. It's really starting to feel like there is no balance or more accurately keeping the mobs in check when it comes to gameplay. I would like to see a return to some semblance of balance and mob type, though at this point we already have had an entire expansion where this was ignored.

    I enjoy the game for much of the time I play and this is where I'm torn. If I quit, that's it. I won't come back as nostalgia for the old isn't what I like spending time on.

    I do hope this game does get back to basics with less muddying of the water, only time will tell. Better gameplay should be more important than a new shiny.

    I get the sense that 90% of the complaints people make about mob difficulty are based on the yardstick of standing in a fairly stationary way and only using damage-skills and heals. But the mobs should be thought of as puzzles that each have unique solutions. Mess with your build. Study for tells. Catalogue all the attacks and their timing. Load up stuns, and cleanses, and invulerabilities. Watch for break-bars and bust them down, etc etc etc. There's almost nothing in this game that can withstand an analytical, experimental, persistent attitude.

  • Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @Haishao.6851 said:
    Now I want to know what champion is worse than a world boss.

    There's a few, offhand I couldn't name them as it's been a while since I've had to fight them. I think what many forget it's usually the adds that make them worse and in the case of the bounties it's that everything is elite around them. There's a few Mordrem champs that can put Teq to shame.

    Not so worried about the mechanics in this post, I'm ok with mechanics provided they don't undermine balance. This has to do with the mobs feeling like the same fight over and over. If planning your attack has no benefit above just burning them down quickly is that a game you'll play for long?

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would argue that diversity of mobs is massively increased over the core game which really showed very little due to the ease of kill. I think what you are seeing is that mobs are using more clear skills and showing what profession they relate to in the same way they used to in GW1. That is good thing for better gameplay. For example, we are seeing Harpies use Spellbreaker skills and Candids being quite unique in their fighting style, with other mobs showing the ability to block, snipe, melee, swarm and other such tactics. I think this is something that they really started with HoT and even earlier perhaps with LS2, but have fleshed out further in PoF.

    Are they more annoying/challenging? I think there is an argument that some of the wildlife could be more faceroll or less dense in numbers, with all mobs being less reliant on so much spamming of cc. I've seen drakes decimate other mobs and players from confusion stacks for example and harpies swarm in destructive numbers. Sure it adds a sense of danger, but really most of the danger should be coming from the 3 main factions of Branded, Awakened and Forged. With the exception of Djinn and Hydra, other mobs could relax things a little whilst exploring.

    It is a minor point though since there is no major imbalance, there is just potential for some tweaking, especially in the overuse of crowd control.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • I'm not asking for easy content, more of a balance in mob levels. Since gear doesn't improve 80 is all there is, it really doesn't make sense that every expansion is higher health and more add spam. If the mob fights like a champ don't tag it as elite. Their type should be a clue of which one is the most dangerous aka takes priority. They can keep the difficulty the same and yet mark the mobs more based upon how challenging they are by type and it would improve gameplay. Second having mobs that all fight the same packs of branded, forged, and awaken doesn't make them feel unique, more of just the same with a different skin.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not quite sure what you mean but I'm loving the game and type of content we're getting. I just want it to be faster! I guess I want more so fast because its so fun

    HARRY! DIDYA PUT YER NAME IN DA GOBLET OF FIYAH?!

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I'm not asking for easy content, more of a balance in mob levels. Since gear doesn't improve 80 is all there is, it really doesn't make sense that every expansion is higher health and more add spam. If the mob fights like a champ don't tag it as elite. Their type should be a clue of which one is the most dangerous aka takes priority. They can keep the difficulty the same and yet mark the mobs more based upon how challenging they are by type and it would improve gameplay. Second having mobs that all fight the same packs of branded, forged, and awaken doesn't make them feel unique, more of just the same with a different skin.

    Mobs were always like this, it just is more noticeable due them being tougher to fight. And it is the same with most mmos too.

    Part of the reason is because mobs are built on set frames, which makes it easier and cheaper to overlay new skins and tweak skills to either look different or do only slightly different things. That is just how game design for mobs work in mmos. You get very few genuinely new open world mobs appear due to time and costs involved in making them.

    Also you have to remember, Anet has stated that the skill level overall of the community has gone up greatly since HoT. This means damage and hp of mobs is increasing to match player skill and power creep from elites.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I can understand your complaint. However I'm the opposite. I honestly think hot maps and hp bosses and mordremoth were far more harder then POF. You might disagree however the reason I say this is I got all my hps in POF by myself. Thief. Ranger. However I had a lil hard part with one, with my engi. Other than that mobs, and Veterans are nothing close to hot maps. However I understand why since many people in forums do say that want hot maps to be easier. And people complain hot maps and bosses were too hard. So POF is nerfed down.

    However I don't think they are losing direction. Even though POF got nerfed down for new people to play, the maps are still fun. Hps are still fun. And soon I'm going to do the POF story again. As for will it be detrimental to rating and people? No. I think it gives another opportunity for new people or old players to just play the game without stressing to get through the map. Hot first time playing was annoying. But going through it again knowing routes it's fun. POF first time is a breeze. Think that's the difference. I think you probably have a wrong build? I'm just running exotics so it's not like I'm running ascended through the map. I'm running average armor and doing great in POF maps. I think the direction was a great different approach.

  • @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I'm not asking for easy content, more of a balance in mob levels. Since gear doesn't improve 80 is all there is, it really doesn't make sense that every expansion is higher health and more add spam. If the mob fights like a champ don't tag it as elite. Their type should be a clue of which one is the most dangerous aka takes priority. They can keep the difficulty the same and yet mark the mobs more based upon how challenging they are by type and it would improve gameplay. Second having mobs that all fight the same packs of branded, forged, and awaken doesn't make them feel unique, more of just the same with a different skin.

    I can't agree with any of that, except that ANet should be careful about tagging foes as Champs, Elites, and Vets (which, for the most part, they are). "Most dangerous" isn't always the Champ; that's never been the case for any game that I've played, including this one. Groups of mobs having the same 5 foes also seems fine to me (although I haven't seen them always exactly the same five); each mob has its specialty and which one needs to go down first often depends on which prof I'm on.

    It absolutely makes sense to me that each expansion brings some new level of difficulty to simply wandering about. That's more a matter of preference than of "improved gameplay." I like having to learn to adapt, rather than being able to rely on what worked in the previous areas. If ANet could afford it, I'd love to see an expansion that extended Vanilla Tyria (with similar difficulty of mobs) as well as introduce new zones. And while I'm dreaming, also have content that changed parts of some zones (like we saw in LS1), new races, new profs, and so.

    But since ANet is limited in being able to offer a limited amount of new stuff, I prefer them to keep on doing what they have done: mobs in new zones take on new skills/traits/powers, that things get progressively more challenging even just walking around, and that the expansions are generally not just extensions of the old zones.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017

    @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I'm not asking for easy content, more of a balance in mob levels. Since gear doesn't improve 80 is all there is, it really doesn't make sense that every expansion is higher health and more add spam. If the mob fights like a champ don't tag it as elite. Their type should be a clue of which one is the most dangerous aka takes priority. They can keep the difficulty the same and yet mark the mobs more based upon how challenging they are by type and it would improve gameplay. Second having mobs that all fight the same packs of branded, forged, and awaken doesn't make them feel unique, more of just the same with a different skin.

    The problem is right here. You think that level and stats are what makes you good at this game, and that's not true. This game has always been about skill progression. A guy in greens with good technique can do things that a guy who can't play well can't do in exotics. Your stats don't have to go up for you to get better. And we are more powerful in some ways due to elite specs anyway. If you have doubt of that, run dungeons again. Dungeons are much faster and easier to beat now than they've ever been.

    Yes, the difficulty needs to increase, because we get betters (well some of us do) by fighting harder foes.

    Edit: This was true even in Guild Wars 1. Max level cap was 20, but when Eye of the North came out, we were fighting things that were 24 level minimum and even 28 level and 30th level in the "open world". Our levels and stats didn't go up, but what we were fighting got more powerful. Even the weakest eye of the north enemies had more health and armor than enemies prior to that, with no gain in player stats or level.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2017

    I like the new direction Anet have been going - it's a tad more interesting than roaming core maps playing with what equates to a legendary boss mob. With HoT, LS3 and PoF, you're somewhat required to deviate from your usual build to fit the circumstance, lest you suffer the consequences.

    The only concern I have is in how Anet handles champion mobs, specifically the breakbar that either doesn't work in low level content or exists for a short period in high level content. I really don’t get why Anet couldn’t build boss-level monsters while keeping cc mechanics in mind.

  • Kalocin.5982Kalocin.5982 Member ✭✭✭

    I do think there's an argument here about difficulty being more reliant on mob damage than mob patterns/skills. Having high damage mobs is not really a good way of scaling difficulty, and I can only point to something like FFXIV where there's currently an unbeatable raid purely due to mechanics. Open world as a whole is harder to balance for though simply due to the nature of casual vs hardcore, and honestly I prefer the former as a preference while keeping hard encounters in their own arenas.

  • @Zenith.7301 said:
    I hate the duration of the current debuffs. I can end a fight in 5-7 seconds but am kept in combat for 10+ seconds because the slow and poison/vulnerability durations are so long....and then some pat has come by or the mob packs have respawned by the time the debuffs wear off and I'm in combat again.

    I especially hate those non-condition effects that you can't remove. They're very prevalent in PoF.

  • ThomasC.1056ThomasC.1056 Member ✭✭✭

    There're tons of mobs that have insanely OP, or have on-steroids versions of character's skills. That's the only cheap way they found to bring players challenge. Heck ! Even a veteran civilian ghost can hit with her bare hands harder than the commander of the pact in full ascended armor and weapons ! (pilgrim ghosts near augury rock)

    What is challenge in GW2 now ? It's really simple. New mobs are made so that you're ineffective 80% (not real figure) of the time. Like those gorillas that have 3 skills that can knock you down for 3 seconds, with a 4,5 sec cooldown. So they're perma knocking you down, and stab is no use. Lions with the projectile denying, so you need to melee them, but you're perma blind. Like those scarabs that can summon their blinding tornado with no CD (I ran some tests, and if it's not "no CD" then it's really short). And the list could drag. Perma condi application, perma boon re-application, perma stun... It feels like WvW !

    Issue is : that's no challenge. That's no fun. That's boring. That's dragging an uninteresting fight far beyond what it should be. These aren't really difficult mobs, yet they become a pain because players are denied their abilities, their hits, their skills because... ? Because otherwise, fights would be done in a matter of seconds, and developpers didn't want that. They didn't want players to clear content too fast. So they create frustration, mistaking it with challenge.

    First, they created toys for us to play with. Second, they created toys for us to play against. Third, they created toys for them to play with. And now, they're creating toys for them to play against us.

    Look at that—you broke Scruffy's sarcasm meters. ~ Taimi.

  • Illconceived Was Na.9781Illconceived Was Na.9781 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2017

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Edit: This was true even in Guild Wars 1. Max level cap was 20, but when Eye of the North came out, we were fighting things that were 24 level minimum and even 28 level and 30th level in the "open world". Our levels and stats didn't go up, but what we were fighting got more powerful. Even the weakest eye of the north enemies had more health and armor than enemies prior to that, with no gain in player stats or level.

    And it got more interesting in Guild Wars: Beyond. Foes were not only high level, but acted a lot like some of the more deadly hero builds. Lots of people loved it; some felt overwhelmed. I loved that it was overwhelming — it became some of the most difficult content in the game, to solo or even for teams, so being able to succeed was extremely satisfying, when I finally figured it out. It required having good builds and good tactics both.

    Whether that was a good thing for GW1 (or GW2 in PoF) is a matter of preference, as is true with so much of gaming. There's no way of establishing that this content is "interesting" or "boring" nor whether this mob is OP or not; it depends on the player. That doesn't mean I don't hate fighting the desert lions — I do — but unlike the OP, I consider that my problem for not learning how to manage them better, rather than a problem with the difficulty of PoF.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I'm concerned with the constant escalation of damage and health of mobs. And this leads to a massive balance problem with the entire gameplay, Veterans that are worse than champions is now a here to stay problem (you can thank HoT being about group play for that one), but it's not just there you can find basic mobs that put vets to shame, then there's champions that are worse than world bosses. It's really starting to feel like there is no balance or more accurately keeping the mobs in check when it comes to gameplay. I would like to see a return to some semblance of balance and mob type, though at this point we already have had an entire expansion where this was ignored.

    To be fair the mobs in both HoT and PoF have less overall health than core mobs, especially mobs that hit hard, for example Smokescales and the Shadowleapers have half the hit points of other mobs and Pocket Raptors have a little more health than critters. In PoF mobs that appear in large numbers usually have lower health totals, Sand Lions, Ibogas, the biped versions of Forged, Awakened Mummies and most types of Choya have less health than Risen mobs in Orr and die much faster. And that's normal, the higher the damage and/or numbers, the less the hit points.

    I don't think the game lost it's direction but rather it finally found it. When you can fight even Champions in core tyria without using your entire skillbar then there is something wrong with a game. Why give you all these skills and abilities when you can auto-attack to death every mob around? With average masterwork gear you can stand still and auto-attack to death most Risen in Orr without fear of death, unless it's a Noble, then you need to move out of their aoe field. With PoF and HoT they force players to use their tools in order to fight the mobs, something core tyria never did.

  • Lanhelin.3480Lanhelin.3480 Member ✭✭✭

    As Mesmer there's one thing I find pretty annoying about some mobs: if I summon an illusion in the second they become invulnerable, they make my illusion even not appearing at all but only the skill going on cd. Invulnerability should block attacks only but not the illusion itself.

  • @Lanhelin.3480 said:
    As Mesmer there's one thing I find pretty annoying about some mobs: if I summon an illusion in the second they become invulnerable, they make my illusion even not appearing at all but only the skill going on cd. Invulnerability should block attacks only but not the illusion itself.

    That's always been the bane of PvE mesmer. At launch, nearly all illusion skills worked without a target, but that turned out to be OP'd in competitive combat (for a variety of reasons, some of which even applied to PvE). Since then, quite a lot of mesmer skills illusions fail without an available target within line-of-sight.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • @ThomasC.1056 said:
    There're tons of mobs that have insanely OP, or have on-steroids versions of character's skills. That's the only cheap way they found to bring players challenge. Heck ! Even a veteran civilian ghost can hit with her bare hands harder than the commander of the pact in full ascended armor and weapons ! (pilgrim ghosts near augury rock)

    What is challenge in GW2 now ? It's really simple. New mobs are made so that you're ineffective 80% (not real figure) of the time. Like those gorillas that have 3 skills that can knock you down for 3 seconds, with a 4,5 sec cooldown. So they're perma knocking you down, and stab is no use. Lions with the projectile denying, so you need to melee them, but you're perma blind. Like those scarabs that can summon their blinding tornado with no CD (I ran some tests, and if it's not "no CD" then it's really short). And the list could drag. Perma condi application, perma boon re-application, perma stun... It feels like WvW !

    Issue is : that's no challenge. That's no fun. That's boring. That's dragging an uninteresting fight far beyond what it should be. These aren't really difficult mobs, yet they become a pain because players are denied their abilities, their hits, their skills because... ? Because otherwise, fights would be done in a matter of seconds, and developpers didn't want that. They didn't want players to clear content too fast. So they create frustration, mistaking it with challenge.

    First, they created toys for us to play with. Second, they created toys for us to play against. Third, they created toys for them to play with. And now, they're creating toys for them to play against us.

    I fully agree with your post. The mobs in PoF especially, gives me no challange they're just utterly boring. Personally I find it to be a lazy way of 'enhancing' combat equipping npc enemies with huge healthpools and infinate cc's, sharpshooters keeping their aim through building and mountains, while having no new tactics just the same old suicidal behaviour. Knocked over, limping crippled, chilled, dazed, blinded etc, waiting for our same old bog cleanses to come out of cooldown only to get a new batch of stacks on you since now there's 3 times as many npc's around you. One has to be into bondage to appreciate this...

  • The Veteran Fire Djinni hero point by the skimmer ranch wrecks every character I attempt it with. Meanwhile, the Champion Fire Djinni in the NE corner of Vabi is a cakewalk in comparison. It constantly drops easily avoidable aoe's that do little damage even if they hit.

  • Mil.3562Mil.3562 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 has already lost it's direction when Anet decided to go ascended 4 years ago : P

    Not just bosses, it is not safe at all to park yourself even in the most remote places or even at some waypoints, if you need to afk for just a minute. Mobs will just spawned out of nowhere and attacked you. I think this is working as intended :/

  • IndigoSundown.5419IndigoSundown.5419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2017

    @Morgan.5170 said:
    The Veteran Fire Djinni hero point by the skimmer ranch wrecks every character I attempt it with.

    Did you mean the Lohrashi the Mournful HC SE of Skimmer Ranch? He's a Ghost Fire Elementalist, not a Fire Djinn.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Annika.7084 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    There're tons of mobs that have insanely OP, or have on-steroids versions of character's skills. That's the only cheap way they found to bring players challenge. Heck ! Even a veteran civilian ghost can hit with her bare hands harder than the commander of the pact in full ascended armor and weapons ! (pilgrim ghosts near augury rock)

    What is challenge in GW2 now ? It's really simple. New mobs are made so that you're ineffective 80% (not real figure) of the time. Like those gorillas that have 3 skills that can knock you down for 3 seconds, with a 4,5 sec cooldown. So they're perma knocking you down, and stab is no use. Lions with the projectile denying, so you need to melee them, but you're perma blind. Like those scarabs that can summon their blinding tornado with no CD (I ran some tests, and if it's not "no CD" then it's really short). And the list could drag. Perma condi application, perma boon re-application, perma stun... It feels like WvW !

    Issue is : that's no challenge. That's no fun. That's boring. That's dragging an uninteresting fight far beyond what it should be. These aren't really difficult mobs, yet they become a pain because players are denied their abilities, their hits, their skills because... ? Because otherwise, fights would be done in a matter of seconds, and developpers didn't want that. They didn't want players to clear content too fast. So they create frustration, mistaking it with challenge.

    First, they created toys for us to play with. Second, they created toys for us to play against. Third, they created toys for them to play with. And now, they're creating toys for them to play against us.

    I fully agree with your post. The mobs in PoF especially, gives me no challange they're just utterly boring. Personally I find it to be a lazy way of 'enhancing' combat equipping npc enemies with huge healthpools and infinate cc's, sharpshooters keeping their aim through building and mountains, while having no new tactics just the same old suicidal behaviour. Knocked over, limping crippled, chilled, dazed, blinded etc, waiting for our same old bog cleanses to come out of cooldown only to get a new batch of stacks on you since now there's 3 times as many npc's around you. One has to be into bondage to appreciate this...

    I don't know what games you have been playing but your design complaints sounds like any game design whatsoever.

    The fact that the player character has a vast array of skills with mobs that will use their own array of skills to try counter you. But generallly speaking, in any other games with a trinity for example, you can yell at your other teammate for doing a poor job at "cleansing" you.

    To me it sounds like you just spam your skills, burn your cooldown, without much thought behind it, and then complain that there is too much of obstacles ruining your fun. It is not because you build for some stab that you are going to cc free. It is not because you can build for some condition clear that you are going to be conditions free. And it is certainly not because you build for high toughness and vitality that you can disregard your dodges. What matters is to use your abilities when appropriate and really needed.

    Personally my only gripe in PoF in terms of mobs are the Jacarandas with no real animations of their skills.

  • @flog.3485 said:

    @Annika.7084 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    There're tons of mobs that have insanely OP, or have on-steroids versions of character's skills. That's the only cheap way they found to bring players challenge. Heck ! Even a veteran civilian ghost can hit with her bare hands harder than the commander of the pact in full ascended armor and weapons ! (pilgrim ghosts near augury rock)

    What is challenge in GW2 now ? It's really simple. New mobs are made so that you're ineffective 80% (not real figure) of the time. Like those gorillas that have 3 skills that can knock you down for 3 seconds, with a 4,5 sec cooldown. So they're perma knocking you down, and stab is no use. Lions with the projectile denying, so you need to melee them, but you're perma blind. Like those scarabs that can summon their blinding tornado with no CD (I ran some tests, and if it's not "no CD" then it's really short). And the list could drag. Perma condi application, perma boon re-application, perma stun... It feels like WvW !

    Issue is : that's no challenge. That's no fun. That's boring. That's dragging an uninteresting fight far beyond what it should be. These aren't really difficult mobs, yet they become a pain because players are denied their abilities, their hits, their skills because... ? Because otherwise, fights would be done in a matter of seconds, and developpers didn't want that. They didn't want players to clear content too fast. So they create frustration, mistaking it with challenge.

    First, they created toys for us to play with. Second, they created toys for us to play against. Third, they created toys for them to play with. And now, they're creating toys for them to play against us.

    I fully agree with your post. The mobs in PoF especially, gives me no challange they're just utterly boring. Personally I find it to be a lazy way of 'enhancing' combat equipping npc enemies with huge healthpools and infinate cc's, sharpshooters keeping their aim through building and mountains, while having no new tactics just the same old suicidal behaviour. Knocked over, limping crippled, chilled, dazed, blinded etc, waiting for our same old bog cleanses to come out of cooldown only to get a new batch of stacks on you since now there's 3 times as many npc's around you. One has to be into bondage to appreciate this...

    I don't know what games you have been playing but your design complaints sounds like any game design whatsoever.

    The fact that the player character has a vast array of skills with mobs that will use their own array of skills to try counter you. But generallly speaking, in any other games with a trinity for example, you can yell at your other teammate for doing a poor job at "cleansing" you.

    To me it sounds like you just spam your skills, burn your cooldown, without much thought behind it, and then complain that there is too much of obstacles ruining your fun. It is not because you build for some stab that you are going to cc free. It is not because you can build for some condition clear that you are going to be conditions free. And it is certainly not because you build for high toughness and vitality that you can disregard your dodges. What matters is to use your abilities when appropriate and really needed.

    Personally my only gripe in PoF in terms of mobs are the Jacarandas with no real animations of their skills.

    The reflections I added to the post I quoted were personal and I won't deviate from them.

    Yet I'm very thankful you explained the elementaries of combat mechanics is such an educational way. I had no idea I would have to dodge with toughness and vitatily, I always thought I was unkillable with those. I suppose clearing the 5 maps on all my 8 characters getting all the masteries, mounts, achievements etc I sailed through on plain luck spamming away my skillzorx.

    Oh, how does one "burn your cooldown" ?? Can you make yours longer? Shorter?

  • flog.3485flog.3485 Member ✭✭✭

    @Annika.7084 said:

    @flog.3485 said:

    @Annika.7084 said:

    @ThomasC.1056 said:
    There're tons of mobs that have insanely OP, or have on-steroids versions of character's skills. That's the only cheap way they found to bring players challenge. Heck ! Even a veteran civilian ghost can hit with her bare hands harder than the commander of the pact in full ascended armor and weapons ! (pilgrim ghosts near augury rock)

    What is challenge in GW2 now ? It's really simple. New mobs are made so that you're ineffective 80% (not real figure) of the time. Like those gorillas that have 3 skills that can knock you down for 3 seconds, with a 4,5 sec cooldown. So they're perma knocking you down, and stab is no use. Lions with the projectile denying, so you need to melee them, but you're perma blind. Like those scarabs that can summon their blinding tornado with no CD (I ran some tests, and if it's not "no CD" then it's really short). And the list could drag. Perma condi application, perma boon re-application, perma stun... It feels like WvW !

    Issue is : that's no challenge. That's no fun. That's boring. That's dragging an uninteresting fight far beyond what it should be. These aren't really difficult mobs, yet they become a pain because players are denied their abilities, their hits, their skills because... ? Because otherwise, fights would be done in a matter of seconds, and developpers didn't want that. They didn't want players to clear content too fast. So they create frustration, mistaking it with challenge.

    First, they created toys for us to play with. Second, they created toys for us to play against. Third, they created toys for them to play with. And now, they're creating toys for them to play against us.

    I fully agree with your post. The mobs in PoF especially, gives me no challange they're just utterly boring. Personally I find it to be a lazy way of 'enhancing' combat equipping npc enemies with huge healthpools and infinate cc's, sharpshooters keeping their aim through building and mountains, while having no new tactics just the same old suicidal behaviour. Knocked over, limping crippled, chilled, dazed, blinded etc, waiting for our same old bog cleanses to come out of cooldown only to get a new batch of stacks on you since now there's 3 times as many npc's around you. One has to be into bondage to appreciate this...

    I don't know what games you have been playing but your design complaints sounds like any game design whatsoever.

    The fact that the player character has a vast array of skills with mobs that will use their own array of skills to try counter you. But generallly speaking, in any other games with a trinity for example, you can yell at your other teammate for doing a poor job at "cleansing" you.

    To me it sounds like you just spam your skills, burn your cooldown, without much thought behind it, and then complain that there is too much of obstacles ruining your fun. It is not because you build for some stab that you are going to cc free. It is not because you can build for some condition clear that you are going to be conditions free. And it is certainly not because you build for high toughness and vitality that you can disregard your dodges. What matters is to use your abilities when appropriate and really needed.

    Personally my only gripe in PoF in terms of mobs are the Jacarandas with no real animations of their skills.

    The reflections I added to the post I quoted were personal and I won't deviate from them.

    Yet I'm very thankful you explained the elementaries of combat mechanics is such an educational way. I had no idea I would have to dodge with toughness and vitatily, I always thought I was unkillable with those. I suppose clearing the 5 maps on all my 8 characters getting all the masteries, mounts, achievements etc I sailed through on plain luck spamming away my skillzorx.

    Oh, how does one "burn your cooldown" ?? Can you make yours longer? Shorter?

    I only referred to the fact that you don't have to use your condition cleanse for every single condition that will affect you. Likewise it is unreasonable to think about using your dodge key to evade single AoE. That is what I am talking about when it comes to "burning cooldowns" imo. And generally speaking, from my own experience, mobs don't have time to use their own abilities because I stun/daze/interrupt and dps them down before they can become a pain to deal with.

    I am sorry you took personal offense. I was only speaking from personal experience but I never meant to imply that you were bad, that you needed to "git gud" or that you were inexperienced. Sorry again for being a bit too much upfront about my experience.

  • yes, it is farmville de luxe now...and the inflation is a sign of that
    the playerbase is still declining, but the gear and skill gap gets even bigger
    so, they have to work more and more, for lesser customers
    some of us can see, where this is going

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @masskillerxploit.2165 said:
    nah just pay 60$$ and become a god.

    Yeah i became a god when i bought the base game.

  • Zedek.8932Zedek.8932 Member ✭✭✭

    Excelsior.

    The reason why I put my Engineer (or Scrapper) on retirement was the "avoids ranged attacks" nonsense in HoT.
    This has barely to do with "adapting" as TexZero said, it's just stupid and feels very forced instead of, as the OP said, a identity.
    I mean, in shooter games like Halo for example, I remember found it stupid the Jackals had the shield, but you could hit trough that if you took care or just walked there and pistol-kitten them or if you distract them so they turn or if you throw a grenade (behind them) or... These were real solutions or "adaptions" as Tex would call it. But in GW, many things are just annoying as heck. Well, I have Shadowstep, so I can at least get out of some stupid situations here and there, but else, it really feels like everyone is doing everything. When back in Central Tyria or even in a place where Harpies are, or Griffons, I know: They can do ONE or TWO things and I have to counter them, which can be troublesome when in groups. When I fight PoF mobs I see 50 conditions on my statusbar before the fight even starts and it's just a mess of a fight.

    Smokescale for example is such a thing where I often just stand there and wait until this BS is over while getting hit down to 30% without any special counter (as Thief), then spam my attacks at it and win. Wow, such a great fight!!

    Excelsior, my name is Zedexx; Asuran Deadeye and assassin.
    The Hunter / 2x Darksteel Pistols / 2x Whisper's Secret Daggers and my Springer. That's all I need and trust.
    "We [Asura] are the concentrated magnificence!"

  • @Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921 said:
    I have really enjoyed some of this game and at times loathed much of it. For me Halloween aka Mad King was fun. And that's where I had an opportunity to look back at the old vs the new.

    Mobs are losing their identity. What I mean by this, is every mob has some form of a ranged attack and can be tough in close or far range. I really don't like this particular change to NPC's in general. There should be a diversity of close combat mobs and ranged mobs that don't intermix. This allows player to utilize their weapons/ skills to the fight, if all of the mobs hit hard no matter how you fight them then it becomes a race to do the most damage.

    Too much projectile hate. This just goes for mobs and many special abilities that are outright broken. For instance smokescale/ smogscale/ dust lions all have some for of an AOE projectile field that no projectiles can hit them in it (even when your outside the field and not affected by the blind). A veteran Smokescale can one shot a full health character with it's opening attack. The abilities have long durations and little downtime. Dust lions added long duration knock downs to this annoyance. Though to be fair their field isn't as long lasting as the smokescale.

    Every awakened undead applies slow/ cripple combo for super long durations. Not to mention the one that bursts out of the ground and can down you in one attack since knock down takes way too long to recover from.

    Look at two condi's they buffed torment and confusion, and how many of the new mobs use those particular condi's.

    I'm concerned with the constant escalation of damage and health of mobs. And this leads to a massive balance problem with the entire gameplay, Veterans that are worse than champions is now a here to stay problem (you can thank HoT being about group play for that one), but it's not just there you can find basic mobs that put vets to shame, then there's champions that are worse than world bosses. It's really starting to feel like there is no balance or more accurately keeping the mobs in check when it comes to gameplay. I would like to see a return to some semblance of balance and mob type, though at this point we already have had an entire expansion where this was ignored.

    I enjoy the game for much of the time I play and this is where I'm torn. If I quit, that's it. I won't come back as nostalgia for the old isn't what I like spending time on.

    I do hope this game does get back to basics with less muddying of the water, only time will tell. Better gameplay should be more important than a new shiny.

    You know, it would help your case if you understood how the abilities that you take issue with actually work. Take your first example, the smokescale. The field they produce does not block projectiles. It causes ALL attacks to miss as long as the smokescale is standing in the field. You have to drag the smokescale out of the field regardless of whether you're using melee or ranged attacks.

    Moving on. A veteran smokescale cannot "1-shot" anything. Its opening attack is, in fact, a multi-hit attack and its behavior is easily predictable as evidenced by the fact that even you know it always does the same move upon engagement. Just stun it when it teleports to you, or dodge if you don't have anything off cooldown.

    I like the way you can improve via practice and learning enemy moves. What at first seems impossible becomes totally doable, even many of the champions. PoF has been out for months and I'm still getting first-time solo kills on bounty champions even now. I just get better and better as I practice and learn the moves enemies make. I think that's a pretty good design, really.

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    "HoT being about group play" surely explains why its zones are best populated of all.
    I love that they're moving the game towards more challenge for casual players, forcing playing together to maximize effective play. Yes, much of that effective play is about making the most gold per hour, but frankly, I'm here for the grind because I LOVE IT. A great leather farm is not much less fun for me than any raid I've ever done.
    So hurrah to ANet for upping the game and fighting the Massively Single Player ehm Massive.

  • Chasind.3128Chasind.3128 Member ✭✭✭

    it's becoming like other asian mmos as far as fashion goes bc of all the shiny new items, gw2 has lost the aesthetic for me.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How does one measure "difficulty"?

    "I only died once, this boss is too easy!"
    "I died! This boss is too hard!"

    "I figured out this enemy mechanic right away, it's too easy!"
    "I can't figure out this enemy mechanic, it's too hard!"

    "I can take this enemy down with only weapon skills, too easy!"
    "This enemy takes too long to kill, too hard!"

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2018

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    I don't agree with any of the assessment.

    I think part of a growing / changing game is getting players to learn and adapt. No one should take range only options nor melee only. You should learn to carry a stunbreak/condi cleanse or transfer.

    Unfortunately people don't for some reason realize this and would rather complain about "hard Open World content" when its equally as challenging as GW1 only back there you actually adapted and changed your builds/comp accordingly.

    Too many people taking OW for granted ... it has its 'meta' builds for every class just like raids/fractals. You nailed it: Optimal OW builds included ranged and melee options, a stun breaker and a cleanse ... that's been true since day one. The only difference is that Anet has now created OW encounters in HoT and PoF that can mess you up bad instead of being a minor annoyance.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

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