OK... So we still have 6 Gods!

How could I miss this?! One month after I did the story...

We have a new God of War! I don't know I am the only one that realized this so late...

Rytlock Brimstone: Or the five. Balthazar is one of the Six.Kormir: No. He isn't. Balthazar has been stripped of his claim and title. He is no longer one of the Six.

Kormir says "no longer one of the Six" sooo there are still 6 gods!

Grenth, Melandru, Dwayna, Kormir, Lyssa and... Menzies!

Menzies is the new God of War!

So it looks like this myth that Menzies was "Evil Half-Brother of Balthazar" was just a myth.

Cheers for the new God of War!

Or with "the Six" she could mean "One of us".

Or maybe the new 6th is the soul of the hero of GW1.

It could be anything. Anything but Abaddon, Dhuum, and Menzies. They make demons, you know. Bad stuff.

Correction: Abaddon and Dhuum make Demons while Menzies creates Shadow Army members and Undead. Menzies may have allied with Abaddon yet let's not forget that GW1's Hero allied with Palawa Joko who is also evil and had aided Mad King Thorn's attempt to escape into Tyria which would have corrupted it just as much as Abaddon's return would have.

New character mode likely

Or maybe Kasmeer is the new God of War. It'd explain why all the gods are rooting for her and her alone, regardless of the fact it's the person next to her that will be performing the important feats.

@Arden.7480 said:How could I miss this?! One month after I did the story...

We have a new God of War! I don't know I am the only one that realized this so late...

Rytlock Brimstone: Or the five. Balthazar is one of the Six.Kormir: No. He isn't. Balthazar has been stripped of his claim and title. He is no longer one of the Six.

Kormir says "no longer one of the Six" sooo there are still 6 gods!

Grenth, Melandru, Dwayna, Kormir, Lyssa and... Menzies!

Menzies is the new God of War!

So it looks like this myth that Menzies was "Evil Half-Brother of Balthazar" was just a myth.

Cheers for the new God of War!

This is not the absolute fact you state it to be. There's been a lot of speculation on this and there is an interesting thread in the lore forum speculating the GW1 PC embodies the new God of War. In short, we have no idea who this new 6th God is, but I personally don't see it being Menzies.

@Mickey Frogeater.1470 said:Correction: Abaddon and Dhuum make Demons while Menzies creates Shadow Army members and Undead. Menzies may have allied with Abaddon yet let's not forget that GW1's Hero allied with Palawa Joko who is also evil and had aided Mad King Thorn's attempt to escape into Tyria which would have corrupted it just as much as Abaddon's return would have.

His darknesses are demons.

I think it's more the fact that there have been six gods for a long, long time and, as a result, the moniker of "The Six" is so ingrained into Human history that, even if they are no longer a group of six, the remaining five are still referred to as "The Six." This would make sense especially since, looking at the current timeline of events, it was only recently that Balthazar was deposed meaning that, until the most current point in the timeline, referring to all of the Human gods as "The Six" still makes sense.

If you consider that there would have been only five Human gods had Kormir not absorbed Abaddon's powers in order to stop another disaster, such as the one that created what we know as The Desolation, and that Kormir only became a god because she absorbed his powers

! then it would be safe to say that, after the events that occurred at the end of the PoF story with Kralkatorrik consuming Balthazar's power, it is likely that there are now, and will be, only five gods going forward.

I bet, we(!) will be a god later

Lyssa could still be two gods. :o

I think you're possibly misinterpreting this. Think of it this way: had Kormir said, "He is no longer one of the Five", would that have even made sense?

It's similar to the way that Kasmeer says "I—please excuse me, Goddess. Perhaps I wasn't clear—we can't hope to defeat Balthazar without the aid of the Six". How can she asks for the help of the Six in defeating Balthazar, when as far as she knows Balthazar is one of them and so she is asking for Balthazar's help in defeating himself?

@Tamias.7059 said:I think you're possibly misinterpreting this. Think of it this way: had Kormir said, "He is no longer one of the Five", would that have even made sense?

It's similar to the way that Kasmeer says "I—please excuse me, Goddess. Perhaps I wasn't clear—we can't hope to defeat Balthazar without the aid of the Six". How can she asks for the help of the Six in defeating Balthazar, when as far as she knows Balthazar is one of them and so she is asking for Balthazar's help in defeating himself?

But she said that before even Kormir'd said anything (I mean except "Rise Lady Meade"). SKas said that she is so used to say "By the Six" etc because she has 20+ years and she has some habits that will be hard to get rid of.

Rytlock says: "Or Five", but then Kormir says: "He is no longer one of the Six" I am aware it can mean just he was one of the 6 but we are 5 now, but I think that just to keep a balance somebody replaced him. So "By the Six" will not be bad xD

It's so stupid that we couldn't ask additional questions to Kormir like: 'how did you claim his powers and chained him so he could reignite the sword and the chains could have been broken by one swing?"

And so or we should call 5 Gods- Gods of War, because if they took his powers, or somebody replaced him. Also there is something with Lyssa that he had her mirror and didn't curse her when he was about to die, so she didn't take a part in imprisoning him?

At this point of the story every stupid explanation can be true. This whole situation with the gods is so complicated- why the hell did they leave? Why were they afraid of Balthazar if they didn't know where he is and they have his powers so they can just smash him and be done with. Or just come down to Tyria, took him to the Mists and chain him again... That's so stupid... They gods are stupid or somebody manipulates us?

Chaos...

Technically they didn't make the demons, they allied with them - or at least that was the case for Abaddon. He did turn humans into demonic entities (Margonites) but the torment demons he was merely allied with. Dhuum's connection to the Darkness> @"Mickey Frogeater.1470" said:

Correction: Abaddon and Dhuum make Demons while Menzies creates Shadow Army members and Undead. Menzies may have allied with Abaddon yet let's not forget that GW1's Hero allied with Palawa Joko who is also evil and had aided Mad King Thorn's attempt to escape into Tyria which would have corrupted it just as much as Abaddon's return would have.

Correction on your correction: Abaddon is never shown making anything beyond alliances or turning humans into demonic entities (but not demons). The torment demons came not from Abaddon, but the Stygian Maw which was in alliance with Abaddon (and possibly elsewhere never stated). Dhuum's minions are primarily demons and souls (and the occasional skeleton), or constructs made of souls - dryders, the only demons under Dhuum's employ, do not have a known origin. Menzies had the Shadow Army, but no undead (beyond the Dragon Liches) - the Skeletal Army in the Fissure of Woe was as hostile to the Shadow Army as to the Eternals.

I wouldn't say Thorn's return would have "corrupted Tyria just as much as Abaddon's return would have" - you're saying Thorn is on par with a god with that claim.

@Llethander.3972 said:I think it's more the fact that there have been six gods for a long, long time and, as a result, the moniker of "The Six" is so ingrained into Human history that, even if they are no longer a group of six, the remaining five are still referred to as "The Six." This would make sense especially since, looking at the current timeline of events, it was only recently that Balthazar was deposed meaning that, until the most current point in the timeline, referring to all of the Human gods as "The Six" still makes sense.

If you consider that there would have been only five Human gods had Kormir not absorbed Abaddon's powers in order to stop another disaster, such as the one that created what we know as The Desolation, and that Kormir only became a god because she absorbed his powers

! then it would be safe to say that, after the events that occurred at the end of the PoF story with Kralkatorrik consuming Balthazar's power, it is likely that there are now, and will be, only five gods going forward.

Except that isn't true. Humans - even Kormir - had gone by the monicker "The Five" for 1075 years. Kormir herself called them such for most if not all her mortal life, and had they gone back to using "The Five" then she would have known the group as such for most of her divine life as well.

As far as known human history is concerned, they were called The Six for about 550 years, then The Five for 1,000 years, then The Six for 250 years. The majority of the time it was called The Five.

Also, Abaddon's death would have supposedly destroyed Tyria, not just turn a verdant coastline into a toxic wasteland and a sea into a desert.

Balthazar was outright stated, multiple times, to have been stripped of his power. The magic Kralkatorrik absorbed came from the Bloodstone, Primordus, and Jormag. His power as god of war had to go somewhere.

@Tamias.7059 said:I think you're possibly misinterpreting this. Think of it this way: had Kormir said, "He is no longer one of the Five", would that have even made sense?

It's similar to the way that Kasmeer says "I—please excuse me, Goddess. Perhaps I wasn't clear—we can't hope to defeat Balthazar without the aid of the Six". How can she asks for the help of the Six in defeating Balthazar, when as far as she knows Balthazar is one of them and so she is asking for Balthazar's help in defeating himself?

Why need to use "The Five" in that exact wording? Why not say "He is no longer one of the gods" or why not "We are once more The Five"?

You're thinking to linearly. There are dozens of ways to word Kormir's response while using "The Five" or simply not using "The Six" instead of calling the group of gods "The Six (Gods)". If Balthazar was no longer a god, and there was no successor, then the name of the group is a lie - hence why they went by the name "The Five" for 1,075 years.

And with Kasmeer's line, she's obviously asking the group which is called The Six because there are six gods, which is called The Five when there were only five gods, for help against one of their own. So her line is not assuming Balthazar had a replacement - she thought Balthazar to still be of the Six.

I think this is just battling semanthics, she probably just meant ‘no longer part of the pantheon’ referring to six as in there arevalways 6 domains.And does it matter? Like, at all? Since the gods have no 100% abandoned us.. whether there’s 1 or 25 gods out there, to us, there’s zero

It's just an awkwardly worded line. There could be another god, though. It's been a long time. But it wouldn't really matter since they all left.

actually if you pay attention when someone becomes at new god it seems they take the opposite role of the previous one that died before them, so if Kasmeer would become a god, she would become a god of peace.

@sniperman.1738 said:actually if you pay attention when someone becomes at new god it seems they take the opposite role of the previous one that died before them, so if Kasmeer would become a god, she would become a god of peace.

That's not entirely true. For starters, it seems that way because Dhuum and Abaddon had turned evil. Balthazar was not evil when he was stripped of power just... overzealous in wanting a battle, and definitely having a temper tantrum. But at that moment he was not yet enslaving souls and killing innocents in large (he didn't really began this until after we forced him into hostilities so had we worked with him from the beginning and not make that machine who knows how things would have gone).

But even then, despite Dhuum and Abaddon being evil, both Dhuum and Grenth were the gods of death who judged the dead, and both Abaddon and Kormir were gods of knowledge who kept the true knowledge both known and unknown by most in their domains. Kormir may be called the goddess of truth mosto f the times, but she's also called the goddess of secrets from time to time, but at the core she is the goddess of knowledge; similarly, Abaddon may be called the god of secrets most of the time post-exodus, but pre-exodus he was also called god of wisdom and at the core he was the god of knowledge.

Balthazar's successor, whomever it may be, would not be the "god of peace and pacifism" (opposite of war and conflict) nor would they necessarily be the "god of honorable combat" as Balthazar once was. He would, at the core, be the god of war. Whether the successor takes on a good or bad view of war and conflict is, ultimately, up to the successor's personality.

@sniperman.1738 said:actually if you pay attention when someone becomes at new god it seems they take the opposite role of the previous one that died before them, so if Kasmeer would become a god, she would become a god of peace.

Not from my observation. Grenth is still the god of Death like Dhuum was. Kormir is still the goddess of Knowledge like Abaddon - she is even called a goddess of secrets a few times.

Replacements can approach the domain from a different angle and have different policies regarding their domain, but they still have the same domain as their predecessor. Balthazar's successor, if there is one, would still be a deity of conflict, strength, and competition. They might still be able to take it in a less violent direction - a deity of sports and athleticism, say - but they wouldn't be an opposite.

@sniperman.1738 said:actually if you pay attention when someone becomes at new god it seems they take the opposite role of the previous one that died before them, so if Kasmeer would become a god, she would become a god of peace.

Secrets and Knowledge aren't opposites; one is shared and one is not.

That being said, I would totally be down for Menzies becoming the new God of War, if only for the fact that we would finally see Menzies.

I assumed another has been chosen to take Balthazar's place as god of war, not sure if it would be Menzies. I liked the idea that any god of war required someone to be at eternal war with, since Balthazar is gone Menzies alone wouldn't really fit the requirement, so some other two entities would be chosen to be locked in an eternal struggle.

I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

@Ardid.7203 said:I think it is a simple description of the hierarchy. There are 6 places for the gods. No matter how many got killed or banned, there will still be 6 divine aspects to fulfill, which will be eventually taken by someone. The Six will be "The Six" as long as this structure keeps in place: its a name of the Pantheon because it is the shape it has as a whole, not because the current number of people in charge.So Balthy was fired and no one has shown up to take the place, yet. So there are 5 gods in total. Well, they are still The Six, the seat for God of War is simply waiting applications.

There certainly seems to be something special about the number six in lore. But at the same time, we did manage to do fine for 1,000 years with only five gods (although Abaddon maybe wasn't stripped of his power in the same way that Balthazar had been?). And Balthazar mentions taking the other gods' power for his own, suggesting that to his mind at least, it's possible to concentrate the power of all the gods into a single being, so why wouldn't it be possible to distribute his power among the five remaining gods?

I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished:

@Redfeather.6401 said:I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished:

Joko seems to have banned worship of the gods (in favour of himself), so it's likely that the old traditions like the Festival of Lyss are no more.

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Redfeather.6401 said:I still think lyssa could be two entities and something significant happened between lyssa and balthazar (such as possibly becoming a retainer for his power?).Kind of suspicious that balthazar didn't curse lyssa, when cursing the gods by name, and that he had the mirror.Also suspicious that wintersday is right around the corner, and that means the beginning of the season of zephyr. Which means, the festival of lyss being celebrated in.... Vabbi! Possible Living Story episode? :astonished: