What's the future of raids in GW2? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What's the future of raids in GW2?

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  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    Yeah. You could play PvP without elite specs, i suppose. Just don't place too much hope on actually being competitive.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    ESO has gone FTP but you have to pay for the DLC, i.e. raids and such.

    The "DLC" of ESO has more than Raids.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    However.. I have read enough. Pretty much when all ya came out and said you wouldn't pay for more raids.. well.. that right there.. answers what's the future of raids.

    Why would anyone pay for something double the price?
    Make the Living World paid, make the new zones paid (separately), make the festivals paid, make every new collection paid, make jumping puzzles paid. How do you think that would work?

    That's why I said "and such".

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    current expansion would be created and sold even if raids never existed, raids would never happen if not for whole community funding this mode

    Raids were advertised as an expansion feature in HoT. And they get content the same way living story works with the current expansion. They are not founded by whales.

    Everything is funded by them. If anet made raids into seperate wallet funded by raiders only you would never see new raid again

    So you are one of the whales and feel betrayed because you can't play them?

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    Yeah. You could play PvP without elite specs, i suppose. Just don't place too much hope on actually being competitive.

    There are actually competitive builds without elite specialisations. Not for all classes but they exist.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Everything is funded by them. If anet made raids into seperate wallet funded by raiders only you would never see new raid again

    How about making all living world releases paid? Would we see any of those again?
    How about making jumping puzzles paid?
    World Bosses? Meta events? Collections? New mounts? Guild Halls? New Elite specs?

    It's all the same. We pay for the game as a whole. I bought expansions, I paid for raids as part of my purchase even though I would never pay single penny for them. There is no way you can cut content into pieces and expect it to be funded only by players interested in it. Because when raid is created (because it's example in this thread) they take resources from whole game - artists, designers, voice actors, coders etc. There is no way you can fund raid only by paying for raid. You would need to fund whole studio for this. The game is better, raids included, when its funded from one wallet and anet decides where money should go. The moment you decided to seperate this into pieces - like pvp, wvw, raid, etc - every one of this content dies because most of funds is coming from gemstore. And whales by definition will never put their money on content like raid or pvp.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    However.. I have read enough. Pretty much when all ya came out and said you wouldn't pay for more raids.. well.. that right there.. answers what's the future of raids.

    Why would anyone pay for something double the price?
    Make the Living World paid, make the new zones paid (separately), make the festivals paid, make every new collection paid, make jumping puzzles paid. How do you think that would work?

    LOL .. when you have to stoop to overly dramatic stuff like that, the discussion is lost.

    To use a more related example, The people asking for new Dungeons to be added made it clear they would pay for them, often times being very upfront about it, whereas, the people who want raids openly admit they are not worth paying for.

    I am sure that won't settle anything for you, but it should give you a nice wake up call as to would be a better ROI for their money.

    "Raids are not worth paying for"

    Now you know their future.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    Also if we use your logic here we may as well be calling it DDO6 considering the breadth of single player games like Icewind Dale, NWN/NWN2 that DDO steals from.

    Did you know those games had Totally different developers?

    Does it matter ?

    You wanted to compare CoRPG to MMO, so why is comparing your tRPG to your fabled MMO any worse an analogy when we're talking about sequels and original concepts.

    If you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights are Forgotten Realms, DDO is Ebberon, totally different universe, which they used just so they would not be building off the existing stuff like Icewind Dale or the R.A. books, By why let little things like truth get in the way of such wonderful hyperbola,

    Anyway, since I have no idea what, if any, point you had, beyond showing that you know nothing about DnD, or the Lore, or any of the games you are talking about, so I can only wager this some lame lash out sue to kitten after admitting that Raids were not worth spending money on, and realizing how bad that looks when you are fussing at Anet that they are not spending enough money and resources on them, so you are throwing out some hackneyed red herring just to continue fighting.. I guess .. because you want to win or something.. but you already lost when you said raids were not worth paying for.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    The moment you decided to seperate this into pieces - like pvp, wvw, raid, etc - every one of this content dies because most of funds is coming from gemstore.

    So no content will ever survive if they sell it separately. That's what I was trying to say, it's not only Raids that cannot survive with this system, it's everything.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    "Raids are not worth paying for"

    And anything else is? Way to dodge the question btw.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    "Raids are not worth paying for"

    And anything else is? Way to dodge the question btw.

    Unlike you.. I already said I would pay for more dungeons, and I had to buy Living Season. So yah.. other stuff is. At least in my book.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    The moment you decided to seperate this into pieces - like pvp, wvw, raid, etc - every one of this content dies because most of funds is coming from gemstore.

    So no content will ever survive if they sell it separately. That's what I was trying to say, it's not only Raids that cannot survive with this system, it's everything.

    Yeah, I think we agree on that.

  • @STIHL.2489 said:
    You say openly that what you want more of, is not worth paying for, yet you expect Anet to pay for it (it ain't free to make it)

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    Also if we use your logic here we may as well be calling it DDO6 considering the breadth of single player games like Icewind Dale, NWN/NWN2 that DDO steals from.

    Did you know those games had Totally different developers?

    Does it matter ?

    You wanted to compare CoRPG to MMO, so why is comparing your tRPG to your fabled MMO any worse an analogy when we're talking about sequels and original concepts.

    If you had any idea what you were talking about, you would know that Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights are Forgotten Realms, DDO is Ebberon, totally different universe, which they used just so they would not be building off the existing stuff like Icewind Dale or the R.A. books, By why let little things like truth get in the way of such wonderful hyperbola,

    Anyway, since I have no idea what, if any, point you had, beyond showing that you know nothing about DnD, or the Lore, or any of the games you are talking about, so I can only wager this some lame lash out sue to kitten after admitting that Raids were not worth spending money on, and realizing how bad that looks when you are fussing at Anet that they are not spending enough money and resources on them, so you are throwing out some hackneyed red herring just to continue fighting.. I guess .. because you want to win or something.. but you already lost when you said raids were not worth paying for.

    They are not worth paying for exactly because anet is not spending enough resources on them. They are too mediocre to be standalone.

  • Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    Is that number public by any chance?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online is free to play isn't it?
    And the adventure packs are how they do their content, they look more like Living World episodes, like selling Living World episodes for cash (or rather gems, because you can buy them with in-game currency too) which is exactly what Arenanet is doing too.

    So is this game. You pay for an expansion box that merely brings open world PvE maps. The raids have never come with the expansion box, and neither have fractals.

    Raid have come with the expansion box. I cannot play w1 and 2 if i dont own the box you see.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Raid have come with the expansion box. I cannot play w1 and 2 if i dont own the box you see.

    Yes. Raiders HAVE to buy the next expansions every time they want to see new Raids, so technically Raiders are already paying for their Raids.
    On the other hand, Fractal runners, dungeon runners (if any exist), PvP and WvW players, farmers (SW and elsewhere), TP Barons do not have to buy the next expansion to continue enjoying their game.

  • Just mentioning that if a raid is sold as a stand alone purchase everyone who bought it would expect to be able to complete it. Whether that is a reasonable assumption or not is irrelevant, but I think the result would be unhappy players in both the "hardcore" crowd who wants a challenge and the "casual" crowd who want to experience a raid kill, and were willing to pay for an entry point.

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    Is that number public by any chance?

    Nope =x

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    pretty sad when you think it's probably 5-10% of all active players

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    pretty sad when you think it's probably 5-10% of all active players

    Got any data to back that up?

  • Sykper.6583Sykper.6583 Member ✭✭✭

    Current Raiders in game is significant enough for Arenanet's numbers to continue making more.

    What any of us perceive as a good number is invalid. Hell it could be 0.0001% in reality and if Arenanet's logic says that's good enough, it's good enough period. Naturally, hyperbole is used here to make the point.

    I'm just waiting to see if they can improve upon what they've learned from the first set of raids, and what they've said so far is promising but we will have to see.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    pretty sad when you think it's probably 5-10% of all active players

    Got any data to back that up?

    It's expected "hardcore" community level for most mmos. So I said probably as Anet will never tell us exact numbers.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    It's expected "hardcore" community level for most mmos. So I said probably as Anet will never tell us exact numbers.

    There is no such thing as "expected" level. So you are saying that if GW2Raidar players were 5k they would be 5-10% of the community, if they were 10k, the same, if they were 50k, the same. I wonder now, how many players were active on GW2Raidar 2 months ago? 1 month ago? Were they still 5-10% of the community?
    We'll see how many people will be registered on GW2Raidar in 3 months from now, 30k? 50k? I guess they would still be 5-10% of the community because the 5-10% remains constant no matter what actual numbers appear. I also wonder how many players Raid yet don't have an account on GW2Raidar, if the numbers of GW2Raidar players are 5-10% then the total number of Raiders is what? 10-20%?

    Aside from all that, 25k loyal players that will buy every expansion Arenanet releases in the future, to get access to the content they like, is not a small number at all.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017

    Aside from all that, 25k loyal players that will buy every expansion Arenanet releases in the future, to get access to the content they like, is not a small number at all.

    For an AAA game? It's a disaster. Anyway, calling raiders loyal by default is a bit of a stretch. I am loyal player, or whoever funds this game for 5 years. If this person is a raider, cool. But seasonal heroes that just came here only to raid are not loyal community. And as we agreed before, there is no way these 25k players (let's tripple this amount assuming most raiders don't use raidar - so 75k) can fund raiding by themselves, not mentioning whole game.

    The only important player is loyal whale. I'm not one, you're most likely not one either but we all profit from them.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    For an AAA game? It's a disaster.

    True but it's the only number we have. GW2Raidar is very new, we'll see how many use it in 6 months or 1 year, or sooner, when the next Raid is released.

    But seasonal heroes that just came here only to raid are not loyal community.

    Those "seasonal heroes" that Raid play the game way more, and more actively than what the casual majority does, playing once per month, playing 30 minutes per week or any of the short that the most casual players play. Although it's assumed, without data, that the "hardcore" players of a game are a minority in terms of numbers, it's also safe to assume, without any data, that the hardcore population has the vast majority of the play time in any given game. The 10% has 90% of the playtime while the 90% has 10% of the playtime. A game without players that play every day, and every hour, to make it populated is a dead game, despite the "active numbers", especially when you count "active numbers" someone who logs at least once per month, which is a useless player anyway.

    Raiders ARE a loyal community, as long as Arenanet continues to make Raids of the quality expected, then these players will continue buying any expansion Arenanet releases, even if the expansion itself is absolute garbage. On the other hand, the non-Raiders will simply leave the game and not buy an expansion if the expansion isn't to their taste.

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    The only important player is loyal whale. I'm not one, you're most likely not one either but we all profit from them.

    Those whales need someone to play with. If the game has only the casual players that log-in once every century, then the whales won't have anyone to play with and leave. Whales + ACTIVE players is what is important. And by ACTIVE I mean those who log every day, for multiple hours, not that guy who logs once per month.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Those whales need someone to play with. If the game has only the casual players that log-in once every century, then the whales won't have anyone to play with and leave. Whales + ACTIVE players is what is important. And by ACTIVE I mean those who log every day, for multiple hours, not that guy who logs once per month.

    Whales by definition not play much as they spend their money, not their time for in game luxuries. And I don't think raid is where they want to show their good looking skins.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    Those whales need someone to play with. If the game has only the casual players that log-in once every century, then the whales won't have anyone to play with and leave. Whales + ACTIVE players is what is important. And by ACTIVE I mean those who log every day, for multiple hours, not that guy who logs once per month.

    Whales by definition not play much as they spend their money, not their time for in game luxuries. And I don't think raid is where they want to show their good looking skins.

    No but they need someone to show their good looking skins. Raiders don't play only Raids, even to make the Legendary Armor you must spend more time in the open world than inside the Raid itself. A Raider is part of the most active players, among others of course.

  • Torolan.5816Torolan.5816 Member ✭✭✭

    Answering the OPs not biased at all opinion I would say that Anet will fund raids as long as it pays out, then discard the topic quietly on the pile of things that occasionally have bones thrown at to keep the here.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    But seasonal heroes that just came here only to raid are not loyal community.

    I have several speed runners in my friend list and I can tell you they aren't online for raids most of the time. ^^
    Also, my raiding guid is pretty active in GW2: 2 fixed raid evenings - the rest is full with daily fractals, HoT metas, WvW, dailies, events like Halloween, gambling, styling, map exploring. The list goes on and on. And we all spend a good amount of money over the years. I'm more than sure that the assumption the majority of raiders only being there for raiding is wrong, completely. Raids are additional content for most of the playerbase, not an exclusive sidecontent for outsiders.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

    Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

    Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

    25k * 30$ = 750000$ from buying the expansion, and any expansion after it.
    It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for because in your own thread where you ask about what is worth paying for, only thing that appears to be wanted is dungeons and nothing else. I think asking players to pay for Living World expansions would lead to a much higher revenue wouldn't it? More players, more income right?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Regarding raiding population, we have a current unique count of just over 25k game accounts across all uploaded logs on GW2Raidar. Suffice to to say the raiding community is still pretty significant.

    Ok.. so lets go with this. 25K players. if they sold a raid for a paltry 10 dollars each (less then some outfits in the store) that would be $250,000, which I wager would be more then enough to self fund the production of the raid and more raids to follow. Now they said 6, but imagine if they could put out, lets say, realistically with a dedicated team, 4 raids a year, that would be 1 million annual income from one game mode. I am sure that would be a substantial enough ROI to allocate a totally dedicated team to just making more of such content.

    Too bad so many people say that raids are not worth paying for, not me obviously.. I am fine with paying for what I want and enjoy.. but other people on this topic.

    That's a no-money for Anet as they explained this when people whined about esport budget being 200k USD.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

    You can stop right there.. YOU and others LIKE YOU, are the one saying it, not me. I have no issues paying for what I want.

    Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 6, 2017

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

    You can stop right there.. YOU and others LIKE YOU, are the one saying it, not me. I have no issues paying for what I want.

    Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

    I never said that Raids are not worth paying for. I have no issues paying for Raids, if everything else in the game becomes paid too. Raids are worth every $ to pay for them, but I'm not gonna pay for Raids when I'm also FORCED to buy an expansion too in order to play, while at the same time other players enjoy their preferred game modes without even that.
    Why are PVP, WVW and Fractals players allowed to be freeloaders without even the requirement to buy an expansion to play their content? Only Raids absolutely require an expansion to play, the others can play without it.
    There is a difference between Raids being worth paying for, and being ripped-off by freeloaders.

    And I ask again, because you conveniently skipped it, do you think any other game mode is worth paying for?

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

    You can stop right there.. YOU and others LIKE YOU, are the one saying it, not me. I have no issues paying for what I want.

    It was me who said that actually. Can repeat it too. Raids in their current state are not worth the money if sold as a dlc for an expansion.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's funny that you are saying Raids aren't worth paying for

    You can stop right there.. YOU and others LIKE YOU, are the one saying it, not me. I have no issues paying for what I want.

    Whatever else you said was built off this lie.. and summery ignored.

    I see no reason to pay again for any content I already paid for buying expansion.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    And I ask again, because you conveniently skipped it, do you think any other game mode is worth paying for?

    I bought every living story (I tend to take breaks at all the wrong times), so.. Obviously I must think other game modes are worth paying for.

    As I said, I have no issues paying for what I enjoy.

    But, you don't see me crying out both sides of my mouth that Living story is awesome and saved the game for me but not wort paying for. If I think something is worth my time, then it is worth my money as well. I'd drop a Hamilton for a fun and engaging dungeon like AC (Arah can bite it), in fact.. on my own question.. I think I would be willing to drop money for additional festivals as well. So.. yah.. no problems at all for me.

    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    If that works for you.. Kudos.. not the way I live tho. My Hobbies are valuable to me.. and anything of value is worth paying for.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

    Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

    Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for more dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

    Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

    Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for more dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

    https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

    It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....
    I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

    Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

    Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for more dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

    https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

    It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....
    I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

    You do realize that is a HoT. (Heart of Thorns) advertisement?

    Never mind the fact that you got that raid, complete and done, with all the trimmings and legendary armor to go with it.

    The real question here is, Did you miss that I already mentioned that raids were advertised in HoT? Just wondering if you were paying any attention at all to what I typed.. you know when I said..

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Where they advertised like they were in HoT

    Now... do you have anything like that for PoF?

    So you know.. you are not just repeating what we all already knew?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    In fact, I never could understand how people could feel that something is worth breaths and hours of their life.. yet not worth any money.. that is like openly saying your pissing away your life doing something you directly feel is worthless.

    I paid for the expansion if you haven't noticed Raids are part of it.

    Are they? Where they advertised like they were in HoT, or do all you have is obscure dev post saying "Don't worry guys, raids will be there"

    Truth is a rough thing, but Raids are a part of the Expansion the same way Dungeons are part of core.. look at the people willing to pay for more dungeons.. most of them paid or the game too. Just saying.

    https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/#raids

    It helps to be factually accurate instead of being well.....
    I think the link speaks volumes for itself.

    You do realize that is a HoT. (Heart of Thorns) advertisement? Did you miss that I already mentioned that raids were advertised in HoT? Just wondering if you were paying any attention at all to what I typed.. you know when I said..

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    Where they advertised like they were in HoT

    Now... do you have anything like that for PoF? So you know.. you are not repeating what we all already knew?

    Figured you say that was waiting for it.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/74re46/pof_developer_ama_summary/

    Now then why would they even bother talking about raids if they werent coming....and if that wasn't clear enough for you
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/7788/unable-to-apply-weakness-to-w1-3-raid-bosses#latest
    Again why bother if we arent getting raids as a content release ?

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    Figured you say that was waiting for it.

    Why didn't you just open with what you had..

    Oh right.. because it was not what I asked for.

    Feel free to speculate, but unless Raid were directly advertised as part of the PoF expansion, then I'm sorry but you didn't pay for them nor is there any requirement on Anets part to deliver them.

    You paid for an expansion and you got one.

    Raids, if they come, are not necessarily part of it at this point anymore, given the raid portal is in Lions Arch, for all we know, all future Raids could be as much a part of the Core Game as Dungeons and Fractals are.

    yah.. not sure if that would make you feel better or worse.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion. You can come back to your flawed argumentation when they release new raid and people without PoF will be able to play it.

  • Blaeys.3102Blaeys.3102 Member ✭✭✭

    The future of raid rewards will be skins and continued easier access to ascended gear with new stats (including Griever's). I think anything more than that will cause an uproar similar to the one we saw with the lore heavy story in wing four.

    As far as the release timing, at this point, players need to accept that raids are not a primary feature of the game. They aren't meant for players who hop in and out of the game with long stretches of inactivity in between. They are side content designed to challenge those players who have mastered the game - part of which requires staying sharp and understanding the nuances of their characters. One or two a year - alongside new high level fractals - is plenty.

    Given their current design philosophy regarding raids, any additional developer resources should go toward other parts of the game (some of which are seriously in need of more attention) where there is greater mass appeal.

    Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blaeys.3102 said:
    Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

    Well PoF created some really huge gaps in performance, I'm saying that the game was perfect before PoF but PoF made things worse. I hope the patch today will tone down some of the over-performing specs while buffing the under-performing ones.

    At the very least, every elite spec should have at least one game mode that it shines at. Once we get to that point, we can go for multiple viable specs per profession.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Blaeys.3102 said:
    Finally, the single biggest thing they need to do regarding the future of raids isn't really about the raids themselves - but rather about the characters we play. They desperately need to balance professions for PVE better. I can tell you first hand that the single biggest thing keeping most players from raiding right now is the current state of profession and playstyle balance.

    Well PoF created some really huge gaps in performance, I'm saying that the game was perfect before PoF but PoF made things worse. I hope the patch today will tone down some of the over-performing specs while buffing the under-performing ones.

    At the very least, every elite spec should have at least one game mode that it shines at. Once we get to that point, we can go for multiple viable specs per profession.

    I think in terms of dps at least we need to come back to healthier 30-33k gap from before PoF. Also Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

    LOL. That is like saying that Wrath of the Lich King is really just part of Burning Crusade.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

    LOL. That is like saying that Wrath of the Lich King is really just part of Burning Crusade.

    Last time I checked we were talking about GW2, not WoW.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Everything that's gated by expansion is part of the expansion.

    LOL. That is like saying that Wrath of the Lich King is really just part of Burning Crusade.

    Last time I checked we were talking about GW2, not WoW.

    Last time I checked, people don't get lobotomized and changed their whole view on MMO's just because they playing a different game. hence all ya begging for Raids to start with. If You all took the mentality that this was GW2 and not WoW. Ya would have embraced the this was a Raidless game and moved on with your life.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Anet needs to find a solution for chrono/druid/ps being the holy support trinity.

    Why?

    That was the whole problem before, that there was not roles to be filled direct classes. Everyone fussed and fancied how great games like Wow were with their roles and raids. Everyone wanted some kind of Raid with a Trinity based Model put in.

    Congrats! You got what you wanted, now play your Chrno/Druid/PS.. and be sad.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

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