Why can mesmers insta-down people? - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why can mesmers insta-down people?

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  • @Baldrick.8967 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:

    @eoz.1834 said:
    why noone mentions fresh air weaver? It can literally burst you down in 2 secs meanwhile having stab/immunes etc. you can even reset or kite with fgs. its not only mesmers can oneshot ppl. they should tune down whole one-shot cheese specs in the game. 1vs1 you can avoid some of combos and do counter burst but in wvw where you were busy focusing on some opponent and some random dude burst you down in 2 secs with cheese specs is sorta frustrating experience for some does small-scaled fights instead blobbing.

    Because you can see FA Weaver coming from three expansions away.

    You only see them if you aren't fighting against some other people, or they don't have a handy source of stealth helping.

    I'm now running into pairs and even threes of these cancers running around, all of whom can unload 20+ damage ticks in under 0.2 seconds (macro abuse much?) and then escape to safety before you can so much as blink.

    Hopefully the 'balance team' will be looking at extremes and swinging the nerf bat on these.

    There is a simple fix, which is to have an internal cooldown between each skill usage. Quarter of a second is enough, so no one can spam more than 4 skills a second.

    Its like I'm reading the forums from back in the day all over again.

    Yes, damage spikes have been around for ages in this game. Getting ganked 1v3+ is actually pretty common. I know we see all these vids of some guy doing a 1v5 and coming out victorious, but I can't even fathom how many time they died before getting that clip. I once 1v3'd some guys on a warrior I had. Killed them more than once. Two of them switched up their builds, found me again and rolfstomped me. Seriously, it happens all the time. Part of the game.

    Greck Howlbane - Firebrand
    Sorrow's Furnace For Life

  • Menzo.2185Menzo.2185 Member ✭✭✭

    One Shot Mesmer?
    And One Second (Hit Kill) Thieves?

    Capturar.JPG Capturar1.JPG

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @K THEN.5162 said:

    @Kilo.2539 said:
    I was playing an alt account on CD with my SB - You sir, spiked me (instant death) where my passive Endure Pain never had a chance to proc. I was so "impressed" with the stealth spike I took note of your name, ouch.

    I have roamed on a lot of poor mirages/ chrono power specs but you- on that vanilla mesmer, is strange indeed.

    XD thanks for the shoutout! What most likely happened is that my mirror blade/mantra charge didn't crit to bring you below 50% and then the mindwrack bursted through it. I must admit, I can understand your frustration when you're running a trait that is supposed to hard counter 1 shot builds and it can't be relied on but I assure you that 19/20 cases of me trying to burst a warrior, the passive endure pain activates ^_^ (still though I do think the burst damage is a bit overtuned)
    Also I roam on core mesmer because I find it easier to 100-0 players who don't see me coming due to the extended stealth duration as opposed to spamming their defences as soon they see a mirage coming towards them.

    Cheers and happy WvWing!

    Let's say that it's true about the first part that mirror blade ect did not crit and hit the guy to 51%. Warriors have 19...20k at least in wvw due to world buff so your single mind wrack must of hit for 10k?

    that is not true if lets say warrior was at 52% before mindwrack then the first mindwrack wont trigger endure pain but the 2nd so you just need like 6k mindwrack.

    My point was that to "1" shot the warrior and bypass endure pain from 51% he must of hit for at least 10k. Anything less and defy pain kicks in halting the burst.

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2018

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @K THEN.5162 said:

    @Kilo.2539 said:
    I was playing an alt account on CD with my SB - You sir, spiked me (instant death) where my passive Endure Pain never had a chance to proc. I was so "impressed" with the stealth spike I took note of your name, ouch.

    I have roamed on a lot of poor mirages/ chrono power specs but you- on that vanilla mesmer, is strange indeed.

    XD thanks for the shoutout! What most likely happened is that my mirror blade/mantra charge didn't crit to bring you below 50% and then the mindwrack bursted through it. I must admit, I can understand your frustration when you're running a trait that is supposed to hard counter 1 shot builds and it can't be relied on but I assure you that 19/20 cases of me trying to burst a warrior, the passive endure pain activates ^_^ (still though I do think the burst damage is a bit overtuned)
    Also I roam on core mesmer because I find it easier to 100-0 players who don't see me coming due to the extended stealth duration as opposed to spamming their defences as soon they see a mirage coming towards them.

    Cheers and happy WvWing!

    Let's say that it's true about the first part that mirror blade ect did not crit and hit the guy to 51%. Warriors have 19...20k at least in wvw due to world buff so your single mind wrack must of hit for 10k?

    that is not true if lets say warrior was at 52% before mindwrack then the first mindwrack wont trigger endure pain but the 2nd so you just need like 6k mindwrack.

    My point was that to "1" shot the warrior and bypass endure pain from 51% he must of hit for at least 10k. Anything less and defy pain kicks in halting the burst.

    Not quite how it works, defy pain only triggers when hit while below the threshold and it does not negate the hit that triggers it. So say we have a 20k hp warrior. Start of the burst takes him down to 11k hp or 55%. The first mind wrack can do a modest 6k which brings him down to only 5k hp but the endure pain proc still hasn't activated because he has not yet been hit while below 50% yet. The second mind wrack hit also does 6k which triggers the endure pain but it doesn't matter because the passive does not negate the hit that triggers it so warrior dies anyways. So you only need to be able to hit 2 5 to 6 k hits to by pass endure the pain if they hit at the right time.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2018

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @K THEN.5162 said:

    @Kilo.2539 said:
    I was playing an alt account on CD with my SB - You sir, spiked me (instant death) where my passive Endure Pain never had a chance to proc. I was so "impressed" with the stealth spike I took note of your name, ouch.

    I have roamed on a lot of poor mirages/ chrono power specs but you- on that vanilla mesmer, is strange indeed.

    XD thanks for the shoutout! What most likely happened is that my mirror blade/mantra charge didn't crit to bring you below 50% and then the mindwrack bursted through it. I must admit, I can understand your frustration when you're running a trait that is supposed to hard counter 1 shot builds and it can't be relied on but I assure you that 19/20 cases of me trying to burst a warrior, the passive endure pain activates ^_^ (still though I do think the burst damage is a bit overtuned)
    Also I roam on core mesmer because I find it easier to 100-0 players who don't see me coming due to the extended stealth duration as opposed to spamming their defences as soon they see a mirage coming towards them.

    Cheers and happy WvWing!

    Let's say that it's true about the first part that mirror blade ect did not crit and hit the guy to 51%. Warriors have 19...20k at least in wvw due to world buff so your single mind wrack must of hit for 10k?

    that is not true if lets say warrior was at 52% before mindwrack then the first mindwrack wont trigger endure pain but the 2nd so you just need like 6k mindwrack.

    My point was that to "1" shot the warrior and bypass endure pain from 51% he must of hit for at least 10k. Anything less and defy pain kicks in halting the burst.

    Not quite how it works, defy pain only triggers when hit while below the threshold and it does not negate the hit that triggers it. So say we have a 20k hp warrior. Start of the burst takes him down to 11k hp or 55%. The first mind wrack can do a modest 6k which brings him down to only 5k hp but the endure pain proc still hasn't activated because he has not yet been hit while below 50% yet. The second mind wrack hit also does 6k which triggers the endure pain but it doesn't matter because the passive does not negate the hit that triggers it so warrior dies anyways. So you only need to be able to hit 2 5 to 6 k hits to by pass endure the pain if they hit at the right time.

    Ok you clearly did not read the before posts. I am aware of how defy pain works, it triggers on the 50% health threshold. What happened is that person A claims to of gotton "1shot"well it's actually instant burst as a warrior with out defy pain kicking in from person B and nearly all warriors take defy pain. The only way for the mesmer to of done this burst was for the last attack to be over 10k in a single hit from 51% health to bypass defy pain. Anything less and the trait kicks in and prevents any further dmg (as we all know) giving the warrior a 3 second window to counter attack or do what ever and thus also stopping the Insta burst from mesmer.

    Edit actually you're right about the 2nd hit part as I thought it did trigger before the dmg like last stand ignore Inc cc. leaving original msg here though

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @ArthurDent.9538 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @MUDse.7623 said:

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

    @K THEN.5162 said:

    @Kilo.2539 said:
    I was playing an alt account on CD with my SB - You sir, spiked me (instant death) where my passive Endure Pain never had a chance to proc. I was so "impressed" with the stealth spike I took note of your name, ouch.

    I have roamed on a lot of poor mirages/ chrono power specs but you- on that vanilla mesmer, is strange indeed.

    XD thanks for the shoutout! What most likely happened is that my mirror blade/mantra charge didn't crit to bring you below 50% and then the mindwrack bursted through it. I must admit, I can understand your frustration when you're running a trait that is supposed to hard counter 1 shot builds and it can't be relied on but I assure you that 19/20 cases of me trying to burst a warrior, the passive endure pain activates ^_^ (still though I do think the burst damage is a bit overtuned)
    Also I roam on core mesmer because I find it easier to 100-0 players who don't see me coming due to the extended stealth duration as opposed to spamming their defences as soon they see a mirage coming towards them.

    Cheers and happy WvWing!

    Let's say that it's true about the first part that mirror blade ect did not crit and hit the guy to 51%. Warriors have 19...20k at least in wvw due to world buff so your single mind wrack must of hit for 10k?

    that is not true if lets say warrior was at 52% before mindwrack then the first mindwrack wont trigger endure pain but the 2nd so you just need like 6k mindwrack.

    My point was that to "1" shot the warrior and bypass endure pain from 51% he must of hit for at least 10k. Anything less and defy pain kicks in halting the burst.

    Not quite how it works, defy pain only triggers when hit while below the threshold and it does not negate the hit that triggers it. So say we have a 20k hp warrior. Start of the burst takes him down to 11k hp or 55%. The first mind wrack can do a modest 6k which brings him down to only 5k hp but the endure pain proc still hasn't activated because he has not yet been hit while below 50% yet. The second mind wrack hit also does 6k which triggers the endure pain but it doesn't matter because the passive does not negate the hit that triggers it so warrior dies anyways. So you only need to be able to hit 2 5 to 6 k hits to by pass endure the pain if they hit at the right time.

    Ok you clearly did not read the before posts. I am aware of how defy pain works, it triggers on the 50% health threshold. What happened is that person A claims to of gotton "1shot"well it's actually instant burst as a warrior with out defy pain kicking in from person B and nearly all warriors take defy pain. The only way for the mesmer to of done this burst was for the last attack to be over 10k in a single hit from 51% health to bypass defy pain. Anything less and the trait kicks in and prevents any further dmg (as we all know) giving the warrior a 3 second window to counter attack or do what ever and thus also stopping the Insta burst from mesmer

    no lets say warrior has 11k hp left -> 55% as above poster said, then a 6k mindwrack will get him down to 5k, wich in this case would be 25% HP but endure pain wouldn trigger yet as he did not get hit while he already was below 50%, then the next mindwrack hit, if it is above 5k will kill the warrior. so no need for a 10k hit.

    if the warrior is again at 11k HP 55% and first mindwrack is non crit 2k, then he will be at 9k hp 45% then next hit crit 5k will drop him to 4k and activate deify pain but he will already be down to 20%.

  • @Sora Shadow.9160 said:
    Wow, some players just try to change the mesmer topic to thief with 2012 video. Such a troll job.
    Just look at how a power mirage can instant down players. It's simple as easy as 1~2 sec blink time.

    Yup. This is a good video that shows what people are complaining about.

  • With grav well and the standard gs burst my record is 4 downs. Please dont nerf :3

    Idaeus [Eo]

  • Nidome.1365Nidome.1365 Member ✭✭✭

    Yesterday I saw an enemy in the distance, as soon as I was close enough to hit them with my longest range attack there was a flash - I was left on 300 health. The only reason I was still standing was because of the boost from a claimed friendly objective.
    I activated shroud as I was on reaper to survive what I expected to be a normal attack but a couple of seconds later another "flash" and my shroud was gone and I was down.
    I checked my combat log and found that the "flash" - as quick as the blink of an eye - consisted of multiple attacks staring with a jaunt, including a mirror blade and ending with a mind wrack.
    I can only assume that the attack involved some kind of macro as surely the key-presses required for such an attack would require a superhuman typing speed.

  • @K THEN.5162 said:
    Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

    Those being:
    Ele: Arcane Shielding/Earth's Embrace
    Mesmer: Mirror of Anguish cause we always open with a stun
    Necro: Reaper's Protection (same reason as above), Unholy Sanctuary
    Thief: Instant Reflexes
    Ranger: Stoneform, Protective Ward
    Engineer: Self-Regulating Defenses, Protection Injection
    Guardian: Passive Aegis, Valorous Aegis
    Revenant: Soothing Bastion
    Warrior: Defy Pain

    No one should be required to equip a specific ability to not be oneshot. You proven our point.

  • Zero.3871Zero.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    Welcome to mesmer wars xD. Everyone already knew that mesmer was most OP class before the patch and the "Balance" patch buffed them. Chrono alacrity have 50% cd reduce. chronos now have so short CDs on invuls, blocks while spiking every 5 sec with 20k+. 1 chrono alraedy have perma uptime for alacrity, 2 have it easier and are unkillable because of all that stunns, bombs, invuls, mobility (to sum up: EVERYTHING). mirages still unkillable because of stunbreak + invul on every dodge while bombing you out of life.

    ANET STOP THIS CLASS. THIS GAME IS COMPLETELY kitten with that OP class!

    i already tried spvp after years to flee from that overload of mesmers in wvw but in spvp 2/5 People playing mesm too. just lol.

    @k then, your suggestions dont help to not dying, because i can use rise + protection + infuing Terror and still get one shotted. and kitten, unholy sanctuary let me alive with 1 lifepoint and shroud( shroud that decay with 1k+ life per second. and reapers cannot heal up in shroud back to full. not even back to 50%. if shroud is gone you are dead. thats not a solution, its BS.

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @Corvus.2831 said:
    No one should be required to equip a specific ability to not be oneshot. You proven our point.

    Well my poor little muffin it seems you have 2 option:

    • You can either complain about your counterplay lacking build getting 1 shot by mesmers and demanding it gets nerfed in the next patch 3 months away
    • Or you can run a specific trait that every class has access to (and is in the game at this current moment) that effectively deals with this sort of build ^_^

    WHAT?!? Did you expect something special would be written here

  • K THEN.5162K THEN.5162 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:
    @k then, your suggestions dont help to not dying, because i can use rise + protection + infuing Terror and still get one shotted. and kitten, unholy sanctuary let me alive with 1 lifepoint and shroud( shroud that decay with 1k+ life per second. and reapers cannot heal up in shroud back to full. not even back to 50%. if shroud is gone you are dead. thats not a solution, its BS.

    Read " traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely" unholy sanctuary prevents you from being 1 shot, what determines if you're killed by the mesmers is your skill/build vs their skill/build. The traits I listed just prevent you from being 100 to 0ed, running them does not mean you will be immune to being killed by a mesmer, it just allows you to have some breathing room/counterplay

    WHAT?!? Did you expect something special would be written here

  • Why is Mesmer still not balanced and keeps on being broken ? Anet ?

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @offence.4726 said:
    Why is Mesmer still not balanced and keeps on being broken ? Anet ?

    This is DPS race game.... all that players need to do is find a lame way to win, being stackin tons of aoe, of tune up for super damage, not all classes sacrifice much far that roles.

    This is a game on core builted for basic pve players that might want to succeed on pvp, play what makes u win.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    So will this be fixed?

  • @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @offence.4726 said:
    Why is Mesmer still not balanced and keeps on being broken ? Anet ?

    This is DPS race game.... all that players need to do is find a lame way to win, being stackin tons of aoe, of tune up for super damage, not all classes sacrifice much far that roles.

    Yes I know what they are trying to do . but in all fairness this goes against having a balanced environment in a game where balance is KEY and especially in PvP / WvW . This is a mockery and ANET needs to step up and bring out that balance Hammer.

  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kirin.7306 said:
    So will this be fixed?

    not soon, would require major changes to all classes.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    @offence.4726 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @offence.4726 said:
    Why is Mesmer still not balanced and keeps on being broken ? Anet ?

    This is DPS race game.... all that players need to do is find a lame way to win, being stackin tons of aoe, of tune up for super damage, not all classes sacrifice much far that roles.

    Yes I know what they are trying to do but in all fairness this goes against having a balanced environment in a game where balance is KEY and especially in PvP / WvW . This is a mockery and ANET needs to step up and bring out that balance Hammer.

    I dont think that is what they want, if u get a balanced enviroment game kinda dies, tdlr "power creep" and basic roation gimmicks gameplay is all the game has to offer, Anet will always try to enforce them no matter what.
    It is like the visual clutter in the game if Anet removes it.. game kind alooses the visual apealing... still need to be cutted, even on small scale combat the visual clutter hides the skills being performed, this is the 1st thing that takes all the competiveness of the game and shows how much this is not a game towards pvp gameplay.

    As a pve game for pver's, every enviroment is ment to be designed for pve players to fin da way to succeed, power creep momentums build and strong gameplay based on gimmicks rather than player skill is what gw2 was ment for.
    Games based on heavy gimmicks rotations are the oposite of a skilled gameplay, it is not me saying it, is simple how it works and how it is defined, every game developer should know it.

    As a pvp game alone to play pvp game like dota, lol, cs etc etc, that is not what gw2 was ment to achieve, at the end this is not a good game to pvp, theres way to less stragegie implied in the matches, players just play this cause the other game require more player being much better IRL, better understanding of how a game works, better teamplay, with all that in mind gw2 will never be a good pvp game, cause core design and whi the gameplay/skills works dev's never cared about those things, it is interesting when some players get blinded with some tune up skills for pvp while the PVE issue conflicting with the pvp gameplay is not fixed....while Anet actually enforces more that conflict to happen in hope to get players from pve to pvp and ending always borking up pvp.
    It is all in the pretend and look ur decent while actually urt playing a strong gimmick rotation to farm some pvp titles then get back to pve, get clever, behave like a douxe bag find always something that is strong and makes u win with less effort.

    It is an enviroment for super casuals achieve shomething in games.

  • SnowHawk.3615SnowHawk.3615 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    Umm.. there is a nice mechanic called "DODGE!"
    Or block with shield? or aegis? or invul? Power mesmers can die just as fast as they kill you. It's a high risk high reward build and has been around for a few years now.

    Well they could do to mesmer what they did to ele and make them only tank/healers and power is pretty much suicide unless youre 100% ranged or extremely fast like idk a fresh air?
    You do know fresh air ele can kill just as fast or a high precision thief? Idk i play power mes and its very fun because condi mes is cheap. Oh yea and holosmith should be here as well
    TBH in all this I don't like the be on the receiving end of the power mes - but it's different once you're playing. it's a pure power trip.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    @SnowHawk.3615 said:
    Umm.. there is a nice mechanic called "DODGE!"
    Or block with shield? or aegis? or invul? Power mesmers can die just as fast as they kill you. It's a high risk high reward build and has been around for a few years now.

    Well they could do to mesmer what they did to ele and make them only tank/healers and power is pretty much suicide unless youre 100% ranged or extremely fast like idk a fresh air?
    You do know fresh air ele can kill just as fast or a high precision thief? Idk i play power mes and its very fun because condi mes is cheap. Oh yea and holosmith should be here as well

    mesmer have leet defensives+ offensives though. still if you want to believe its balanced go ahead.

  • Ubi.4136Ubi.4136 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:
    Welcome to mesmer wars xD. Everyone already knew that mesmer was most OP class before the patch and the "Balance" patch buffed them. Chrono alacrity have 50% cd reduce. chronos now have so short CDs on invuls, blocks while spiking every 5 sec with 20k+. 1 chrono alraedy have perma uptime for alacrity, 2 have it easier and are unkillable because of all that stunns, bombs, invuls, mobility (to sum up: EVERYTHING). mirages still unkillable because of stunbreak + invul on every dodge while bombing you out of life.

    ANET STOP THIS CLASS. THIS GAME IS COMPLETELY kitten with that OP class!

    i already tried spvp after years to flee from that overload of mesmers in wvw but in spvp 2/5 People playing mesm too. just lol.

    @k then, your suggestions dont help to not dying, because i can use rise + protection + infuing Terror and still get one shotted. and kitten, unholy sanctuary let me alive with 1 lifepoint and shroud( shroud that decay with 1k+ life per second. and reapers cannot heal up in shroud back to full. not even back to 50%. if shroud is gone you are dead. thats not a solution, its BS.

    And a single scourge bombed me in an instant for 7k hp a second yesterday.

    And a daredevil knocked 12k hp off less than a second from 1200 range while stunning me and instantly being back at 1200+ range.

    And a spellbreaker killed me while invoulnerable.

    And a weaver bombed 15k hp in less than a second.

    And a herald knocks 6k hp off each autoattack at 1200 range.

    And even if any of these do get a bomb in a firebrand can heal up from 0 to 100 in an instant.

    Etc and so on.

    Its not mesmers wars.

    Welcome to GW2. It is what it is. It doesnt matter what your class is, any time you complain about enemy classes look at your kitten own class first.

    Quoted for truth.

    Lost in the Maguuma (TC)
    For the geographically challenged, yes, Tarnished Coast is located IN the Maguuma Jungle.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2018

    (nevermind) and cant delete.

  • SnowHawk.3615SnowHawk.3615 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kirin.7306 said:

    @SnowHawk.3615 said:
    Umm.. there is a nice mechanic called "DODGE!"
    Or block with shield? or aegis? or invul? Power mesmers can die just as fast as they kill you. It's a high risk high reward build and has been around for a few years now.

    Well they could do to mesmer what they did to ele and make them only tank/healers and power is pretty much suicide unless youre 100% ranged or extremely fast like idk a fresh air?
    You do know fresh air ele can kill just as fast or a high precision thief? Idk i play power mes and its very fun because condi mes is cheap. Oh yea and holosmith should be here as well

    mesmer have leet defensives+ offensives though. still if you want to believe its balanced go ahead.

    No i dont think it's balanced at all never said it was. was just comparing it to others! :D

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Zero.3871 said:
    Welcome to mesmer wars xD. Everyone already knew that mesmer was most OP class before the patch and the "Balance" patch buffed them. Chrono alacrity have 50% cd reduce. chronos now have so short CDs on invuls, blocks while spiking every 5 sec with 20k+. 1 chrono alraedy have perma uptime for alacrity, 2 have it easier and are unkillable because of all that stunns, bombs, invuls, mobility (to sum up: EVERYTHING). mirages still unkillable because of stunbreak + invul on every dodge while bombing you out of life.

    ANET STOP THIS CLASS. THIS GAME IS COMPLETELY kitten with that OP class!

    i already tried spvp after years to flee from that overload of mesmers in wvw but in spvp 2/5 People playing mesm too. just lol.

    @k then, your suggestions dont help to not dying, because i can use rise + protection + infuing Terror and still get one shotted. and kitten, unholy sanctuary let me alive with 1 lifepoint and shroud( shroud that decay with 1k+ life per second. and reapers cannot heal up in shroud back to full. not even back to 50%. if shroud is gone you are dead. thats not a solution, its BS.

    And a single scourge bombed me in an instant for 7k hp a second yesterday.

    And a daredevil knocked 12k hp off less than a second from 1200 range while stunning me and instantly being back at 1200+ range.

    And a spellbreaker killed me while invoulnerable.

    And a weaver bombed 15k hp in less than a second.

    And a herald knocks 6k hp off each autoattack at 1200 range.

    And even if any of these do get a bomb in a firebrand can heal up from 0 to 100 in an instant.

    Etc and so on.

    Its not mesmers wars.

    Welcome to GW2. It is what it is. It doesnt matter what your class is, any time you complain about enemy classes look at your kitten own class first.

    Well, to be fair, the ele burst is so telegraphed you can easily dodge it if your paying attention. The warrior cheese can be dodge/kited/stealth/etc while he's invun. Herald is really only an issue in zergs, but reflect is your friend here, not to mention dodging behind something/someone else (auto doesnt pierce). Daredevil will implode if they make a tiny mistake. Can't commit on FB, I havent seen a roaming one in ages. Scourge is weak if you have condi clear (i handle them quite well on my reaper nowadays after much practice and swearing).

    My point is, that all these cheese mechanics are counterable in some fashion except for mesmer. The fact that they can do this cheese tactic instantly from stealth is what people are complaining about mostly. Only defense is to random 'guess' dodge when you think the shot is coming. That and the fact that once the either hit/miss their cheese, they easily kite with blocks/evades/stealth/clones until its back off cooldown.

    I've never seen a class in any game that had stealth & blocks & clones & evades & teleports ports & 1-shot damage. They should be sacrificing some of those 'options' to trait the others. It is BLATANTLY obvious, given past Anet videos/discussions, that Karl refuses to balance this class, as this class is his baby that he plays/uses for testing.

  • shagwell.1349shagwell.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    I wish they would tone down power mesmer/mirage dps by 25% straight or take away either their stealth or the option to port around almost endless. That's almost the same stupid mechanic which has almost no risk that we know from thieves and sorry, but that sucks balls.

  • @offence.4726 said:
    Why is Mesmer still not balanced and keeps on being broken ? Anet ?

    well, when you see some Anet guys running in wvw, make sure to login with your mesmer and just keep 1 shot them everytime.
    Tada...next balance patch, power mesmer nerfed.
    and any mesmer that cries, send em halloween toilet paper :)

  • I am curious, has ArenaNet ever mentioned any big plans to completely overhaul skills per game mode? Really taking a look at how the classes interact in PvE versus PvP/WvW and really taking a look at how to fix skills for a game mode and not just fix skills overall/generally? I always feel that games that have the PvE element, can balance well for PvE encounters, bosses, raids etc. But when looking at how classes interact with one another and fight each other is a whole different story. If anyone has any links to information they have provided about overhauling skills per game mode, I would be interested in reading it!

  • theres a youtube video that teaches you how to spec your mesmer for this one shot insta death build. yes it exist.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shagwell.1349 said:
    I wish they would tone down power mesmer/mirage dps by 25% straight or take away either their stealth or the option to port around almost endless. That's almost the same stupid mechanic which has almost no risk that we know from thieves and sorry, but that sucks balls.

    Then you are also in favor of toning down warrior, engie, rev, ele, ranger, guard, necro and thief dps by 25% straight off, or alternativly take away their invoulns? Did I miss any class capable of speccing OP? I dont think so. It would go a good way to reduce powercreep, yes.

    I would still like Anet to post the stats on what the average class composition is during 1h of primetime play. I'm guessing mesmer lands in the low single digit, compared to scourge and fb probably being 70%+

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • shagwell.1349shagwell.1349 Member ✭✭✭

    None of those you mentioned combine stealth, dps, invul and mobility. All those you mentioned lack in at least one the options.

  • coglin.1496coglin.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    @Corvus.2831 said:
    No one should be required to equip a specific ability to not be oneshot. You proven our point.

    Actually, if you are being "one shotted" you are either running a bad build or playing the build you are running badly. If you are not capable of not being killed by a single button press because of a skill issue, it is perfectly reasonable to utilize a skill, trait, or ability to defend yourself. Remember, your ability to die has as much to do with your skill level and build as it does with your opponents.

    Do not confuse your objective opinion with that of objective fact. Remember, what you say matters, not what you meant to say.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While I do think mesmers ability to spike is a bit too high for all the survivability given from the mirage spec the actual burst hasn't really changed too much in damage except being able to double shatter with duel, illu and mirage but that comes at a reduction in damage from not having dom.

    On the other hand lets say you "reduce mesmer dps by 25%" as someone mentioned above, what will happen? Mesmer can't burst past the healing being put out by most classes and it now lacks the sustained damage to do much of anything. Put simply you would effectively delete it from the game.

    The solution we need is a reduction in damage of all classes as well as nerfing the flat healing and upping the cool downs of a lot of defences a bit too, not a huge amount just 5-10s. We have had the same base health pools since launch but damage has just been escalating with the expansions (just look at PvE dps figure trends) yet no increase to base health at all to help with this, not that I think that's what is needed. If you think mirage is imba but think FB, Scourge, SB, Rev, Holo, Druid and Thief are fine then you're only showing your bias, doubly so all those saying FB is fine.

  • I have no strong feelings one way or the other when it comes to Mesmers and balance at this current time.

    I will say though that people should avoid saying thing like "learn to play" because it's not going to help strengthen the point you're trying to make in the slightest. Remember when ranger pets would stick to people like glue during the beta and destroy people? It would kinda be rude of me to say "just learn to play better" back then.

    So yeah just remember to use facts/logic/whatever to back up your points, don't use pointless phrases or else this is just going to turn into a thread of endless complaining on both ends.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @coglin.1496 said:

    @Corvus.2831 said:
    No one should be required to equip a specific ability to not be oneshot. You proven our point.

    Actually, if you are being "one shotted" you are either running a bad build or playing the build you are running badly. If you are not capable of not being killed by a single button press because of a skill issue, it is perfectly reasonable to utilize a skill, trait, or ability to defend yourself. Remember, your ability to die has as much to do with your skill level and build as it does with your opponents.

    Some class have no or close to none counter plays. When players say one shot, both party will be glass or very close to one. You can be tankie but its just a matter if time with mirage mechanics (Jaunt to gap close or disengage. their passive reflects and blurred frenzy). Mirage will need to time "The Prestige" explosion which grant them stealth beforehand as part of the one shot combo to be effective. This will make the opponent unaware or unable to take action which further amplifies the dmg. They can disengage or continue to press on with GS 5-4-3 mind stab combo immediately/afterwards while waiting for the cd resets.

  • coglin.1496coglin.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Some class have no or close to none counter plays.

    Link me the build, I will be happy to teach you at least one counterplay per build.

    When players say one shot, both party will be glass or very close to one.

    Do not run a glassy build, then cry if you die quickly. If you cannot handle surviving, being glassy, then you are not good enough to run a glassy build.

    You can be tankie but its just a matter if time with mirage mechanics (Jaunt to gap close or disengage. their passive reflects and blurred frenzy). Mirage will need to time "The Prestige" explosion which grant them stealth beforehand as part of the one shot combo to be effective.

    Please do not slap the words "one-shot" and "combo" next to each other, that is the worst kind of an oxymoron.

    If you are at a level in which a single off-hand skill on a single elite spec is causing you death PM me, I will be glad to get together in the game and teach you to deal with that simple situation. I would also like to share some information you seem possibly to be unaware of.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

    That is a wiki page of skills you might find useful.

    This will make the opponent unaware or unable to take action which further amplifies the dmg.

    Can you detail how this skill makes one "unable to take action"? When I was killing mesmers/thieves in WvW last night, or any day in the past, I have never encountered an action that could occur to me that prevented me from taking action. You may need to detail some more specifics as to your meaning.

    They can disengage or continue to press on with GS 5-4-3 mind stab combo immediately/ afterward while waiting for the cd resets.

    Yeah, this is where I either use a leap skill to close the gap or a pull skill. I have never found the mesmers GS to be particularly threatening when used against me.

    As to the use of skills left available while waiting for cooldown resets, don't we all do that?

    Do not confuse your objective opinion with that of objective fact. Remember, what you say matters, not what you meant to say.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Any viable ranger build for wvw?

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Any viable ranger build for wvw?

    Yes, mesmer.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2018

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Any viable ranger build for wvw?

    It depends on how lame you want to go, you can run minstrel druid with jacaranda and smokescale doing all your damage while you kite, stealth, heal and proc ancient seeds till the cows come home. You'll never die except from boredom but you'll pretty much win or draw every 1v1. Also means you'll do some serious healing to allies if it escalates but all damage is from pet so don't go zergin.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Any viable ranger build for wvw?

    It depends on how lame you want to go, you can run minstrel druid with jacaranda and smokescale doing all your damage while you kite, stealth, heal and proc ancient seeds till the cows come home. You'll never die except from boredom but you'll pretty much win or draw every 1v1. Also means you'll do some serious healing to allies if it escalates but all damage is from pet so don't go zergin.

    Very much as you described, was for solo purpose. The result of 1vs1 with a Mirage placed me on the defensive cause lack in dmg to put him down (the pets which holds a fair amount of my dmg will be idle, unable to choose a target between the clones and phantasm). Will win fights if the target(single) and squishy & can outruns a Mirage.

    Tried condi trapper, personally I don't recommend it. Takes forever to stack the condi, Mirage have the upper hand with evades, passive, and reflects. Aside from Mirage, Scourge will be another one of condi trapper concern with their Barrier and boon conversions. Honestly, never actually killed anyone with condi trapper, best I did was to annoy them.

    Power builds, I would say 50-50 in WvW. But chances of winning using it against a Mirage, will make a 1v3 look easier. So if there's any variant ranger build that can give 50% chance of winning against a Mirage, I'm all ears.

    PS : Probably a good time and easier to gear up my Spellbreaker. And don't get me wrong, I said it's possible for Mirage to instant burst to kill, did mention both side will be close to glass and it can be prevented with dodges etc. (I did) But it's a matter of time, to be overwhelmed by clones and phantasm (3 clones + phantasm) with Jaunt, there's where things get sticky on ranger.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 14, 2018

    @apharma.3741 said:
    While I do think mesmers ability to spike is a bit too high for all the survivability given from the mirage spec the actual burst hasn't really changed too much in damage except being able to double shatter with duel, illu and mirage but that comes at a reduction in damage from not having dom.

    On the other hand lets say you "reduce mesmer dps by 25%" as someone mentioned above, what will happen? Mesmer can't burst past the healing being put out by most classes and it now lacks the sustained damage to do much of anything. Put simply you would effectively delete it from the game.

    The solution we need is a reduction in damage of all classes as well as nerfing the flat healing and upping the cool downs of a lot of defences a bit too, not a huge amount just 5-10s. We have had the same base health pools since launch but damage has just been escalating with the expansions (just look at PvE dps figure trends) yet no increase to base health at all to help with this, not that I think that's what is needed. If you think mirage is imba but think FB, Scourge, SB, Rev, Holo, Druid and Thief are fine then you're only showing your bias, doubly so all those saying FB is fine.

    You're absolutely right, but good luck convincing almost anybody left playing this game to give up their busted spec/build. There are people still complaining that firebrand doesn't have enough defense and scourge is weak in the PvP formats because it does low damage.

    And I don't think ANet's profession devs could recognize bad class design if it slapped them in the face. I mean, the entirety of Deadeye's design is literally "just cheese them by abusing stealth for the OHKO," and that's the byproduct of sending them a document explaining specifically why we'd end up with what we have if we were to allow exactly what they implemented to exist, and how to get around it.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eramonster.2718 said:

    @apharma.3741 said:

    @Eramonster.2718 said:
    Any viable ranger build for wvw?

    It depends on how lame you want to go, you can run minstrel druid with jacaranda and smokescale doing all your damage while you kite, stealth, heal and proc ancient seeds till the cows come home. You'll never die except from boredom but you'll pretty much win or draw every 1v1. Also means you'll do some serious healing to allies if it escalates but all damage is from pet so don't go zergin.

    Very much as you described, was for solo purpose. The result of 1vs1 with a Mirage placed me on the defensive cause lack in dmg to put him down (the pets which holds a fair amount of my dmg will be idle, unable to choose a target between the clones and phantasm). Will win fights if the target(single) and squishy & can outruns a Mirage.

    Tried condi trapper, personally I don't recommend it. Takes forever to stack the condi, Mirage have the upper hand with evades, passive, and reflects. Aside from Mirage, Scourge will be another one of condi trapper concern with their Barrier and boon conversions. Honestly, never actually killed anyone with condi trapper, best I did was to annoy them.

    Power builds, I would say 50-50 in WvW. But chances of winning using it against a Mirage, will make a 1v3 look easier. So if there's any variant ranger build that can give 50% chance of winning against a Mirage, I'm all ears.

    PS : Probably a good time and easier to gear up my Spellbreaker. And don't get me wrong, I said it's possible for Mirage to instant burst to kill, did mention both side will be close to glass and it can be prevented with dodges etc. (I did) But it's a matter of time, to be overwhelmed by clones and phantasm (3 clones + phantasm) with Jaunt, there's where things get sticky on ranger.

    SB is super easy to gear up, I run marauder armour with durability runes then everything else zerk. I'm no pro warrior, not even close but I have 0 issues fighting outnumbered unless I severely overextend or don't pay any attention, fought some decent mirages on it and won but that's more my knowledge of mirage than skill on war.

  • What people are complaining about is that if you already have your mind on something else, and don't notice the 0.5s graphic tell that damage is incoming you will be downed. happened to me quite often as of lately.

    If you are dueling the mesmer and you know what to look for (and you use your evades correctly) it is actually really easy to counter.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 15, 2018

    Yes. The one shot is actually a combo of damage happening at the same time. The damage spike/ combined can happen instantaneously, bypassing threshold killing the player before immunity skill triggers. The recent patch changes made mesmer lose out constant dps, unintentionally increased the burst instead(phantasm). This put mesmers & mirage top tier in WvW roaming. Try not to be over defensive, when I was just trying to explain the one-shot.

    If you are dueling the mesmer and you know what to look for (and you use your evades correctly) it is actually really easy to counter.

    Yes, failing will pay a hefty price. There are many ways to start the "one shot". Usually with stealth, surprising the enemy & giving no target the enemy is unable to take action which will amplifies the dmg taken(trait).

    One of the memorable recent combat. A mirage was distorting/evading my projectile and went stealth. Baited my dodge with a duelist, magic bullet stun and shattered. The combat went into his favor after.
    Ps : The first shatter could've probably one shot glass, and duelist can deal up to 8k crit.

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's worth looking at the damage log and realising what that mesmer is running and doing, the video links don't seem to work for me so I can't view that but from the log there's a big clue in the frozen burst that was absorbed. He is running the complete burst set up where you attack from stealth, mirror blade into mindwrack, mindstab and then swap weapons for hydromancy (maybe geo too) and blurred frenzy. If he messes it up the guy has 0 skill and will run, most likely will not be an issue for 90s as these types burn mass invis for the stealth engage.

    I hate players like this, it is no skill and detracts from the people who are good with a power shatter build where they don't stealth engage because they're good enough to not need it, where they don't run mantra of distraction because they have the skill to not need it and don't run 2 mesmers same guild, same looks and everything to gank people.

    On a side note about the damage spike bypassing thresholds for auto procs, it's actually far more vulnerable to that than many bursts from classes as it's a multihit combo. In the example from the quote, had he been a war with endure pain he'd have stopped taking damage after the first mind wrack hit. A druid would have auto weakness on the mesmer as soon as they were touched, engineer elixir S would have gone off on the 2nd mirror blade hit though he'd be effectively dead at that point as it's a 25% health threshold but still a chance to heal and stealth to recover. Just a shame necro only has auto DS on a bad line but you get my drift.

    Anyway I said it before, all damage needs turning down as well as adjustments to healing, sustain and defences but we are firmly into power creep, every time they buff something underused it's creep.

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