Why can mesmers insta-down people?

Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

With spellbreakers and scourges running around I think we have bigger problems than mesmers in wvw. I have never been one shot by a mesmer on wvw. If someone run full zerker schoolar mesmer they would still need to waste 2/3 utilities to stealth, teleport to melee range and produce 3 clones to shatter on you. If that fails they are dead.

@EvilSardine.9635 said:I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

Really? You're new to the build and you can pull off the gs combo perfectly on 3 people at once? Never mind the fact that a large part of the burst comes from blinking into mirror blade making it hit the same (single) target multiple times.Let's see some footage of that hmm?

Yep, after Scrouge, nerf all other classes to the same level (as scrouge), then nobody can complain anymore. :)

Defy Pain only works if you take a hit below 50% that doesn't down you, so if you have 20k hp, and you're at 11k hp, and you get hit for 15k damage, you go down because the trait doesn't proc because you were above 50% hp the entire time, the same logic applies to a 25k Death's Judgement hitting that same Warrior. I've never had a berserker mesmer one shot me anytime I've been playing warrior with Defy Pain, it's extremely unlikely to happen, less defensive stats could actually help you in that same situation as a Mind Wrack would hit after the Defy Pain procs, doing no damage anymore.

@Hiraldo.7954 said:

@EvilSardine.9635 said:I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

Anyone who has played mesmer at all can pull off any mesmer combo. You just described how easy it is to do most of the burst......blink in and let it bounce between you and target. Those are two button presses. LOL.

Sounds like an exploit or at the very least an oversight.

I would say: Probably not going to get fixed. Because this isn't new and has been around for the past 2 years. We used to have people complain but Anet is playing the three monkeys. Monkey dont see monkey dont hear and monkey dont say.

What I see happening is that Spellbreakers if built right have a rotation that blocks and evades everything. Keep in mind mesmers and thiefs could already do that in the past. Spellbreakers have just made this problem more apparent Spellbreakrs in short gave the community a tipping point that forced people to zerg. I even made a thread about how people don't roam as much as they did.

And I'll leave you with a quote that I just made up on the spot. The many are ignorant the few are wise. Take heed of the wise ignore the majority.

Hi there, as a power Mesmer player I can understand your frustration and whether the burst combo is broken or not there are traits on each class that can prevent you from being 1 shot entirely.

Those being:Ele: Arcane Shielding/Earth's EmbraceMesmer: Mirror of Anguish cause we always open with a stunNecro: Reaper's Protection (same reason as above), Unholy SanctuaryThief: Instant ReflexesRanger: Stoneform, Protective WardEngineer: Self-Regulating Defenses, Protection InjectionGuardian: Passive Aegis, Valorous AegisRevenant: Soothing BastionWarrior: Defy Pain

I think the common theme of frustration comes from folks that feel one shotting should not be an option for anyone. Many people want the chance to make a mistake or 2 and have a chance... even if you lose because the other player was a bit better.

When you introduce a system where a player can be decimated unless they have super twitch reflexes the complaints are gonna happen.

If you are killing the majority of players you attack without any return damage within the first few seconds... you have to know deep down you are rolling a broken spec....

I don't mind one shot builds existing, under some conditions:

• They shouldn't be able to start, or even land their entire burst, in stealth
• They shouldn't be able to do it at long range. 900 range would be the absolute maximum a one shot build can hit you from
• Complete glass cannons. All gear, traits, and skills devoted towards one shotting people. You shouldn't be able to take passive proccing defensive traits and still have a one shot build. You shouldn't be able to take a defensive traitline and still one shot people. Period
• You should have limited disengage ability. If your burst fails you should pay for it, by not being able to disengage easily, or at all. This is where thiefs break these conditions more often than not.

If a class meets all of those, then I don't have a problem with one shot builds, because if they make a mistake, they pay for it.

Edit - For clarification - What these conditions boil down to is that every trait they take, and every skill 6-0 on the bar needs to be contributing to the one shot burst combo. Whether its stuff like signets that grant you passive bonuses, or skills that give you buffs/condis on the enemy, every single skill should have to be devoted to it for the burst to be successful.

i didnt get oneshot by a mesmer for ages but i allways run builds that wouldnt survive a successful try. so i dont have a problem with it. and this has been possible for ages dunno why you come up with it now, your opening post reads to me a bit like you want to justify deadeyes DJ with mesmer having a 'better' oneshot.

and mind i dont have an issue with DJ, i use that one alot myself.

same way engineers can CC you to death =D

@Kirin.7306 said:same way engineers can CC you to death =D

How exactly tha works? I cannot remember the last time a engineer actually beat me. Even less by CC'ing me to death.

Some mirages can down you extremely fast but I think thats more of people not being used to new class mechanics and just facetanking damage. Ive been victim to that twice in the last few days of simply not reacting and wanting to see what it actually did. The damage was good but it wast ridiculously overpowered. Still yes they can hit hard and do, but thats more an issue of passive protections the class has allowing them to build full glass and run away.

@Malachi.1836 said:Some mirages can down you extremely fast but I think thats more of people not being used to new class mechanics and just facetanking damage. Ive been victim to that twice in the last few days of simply not reacting and wanting to see what it actually did. The damage was good but it wast ridiculously overpowered. Still yes they can hit hard and do, but thats more an issue of passive protections the class has allowing them to build full glass and run away.

This isn't specific of Mirage... any mesmer running Mental Anguish + Superity Complex with a Full Glass Cannon setup will do this kind of damage...

I told you. If not me, someone else will complain. Specs that one-shot people from stealth make roaming shittier.

Because builds that require 10 buttons to do 20k damage and 5 buttons to 20k damage are not on the same level of cancer in Anet's eyes. The former should be allowed to stay apparently.

RIP gazelle

@EvilSardine.9635 said:

@Hiraldo.7954 said:

@EvilSardine.9635 said:I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

Sure, but how does this explain the other 2 targets going down? You mentioned 3 people going instantly down (well you didn't mention their health so I guess 3 low life targets?).

@shadowpass.4236 said:Because builds that require 10 buttons to do 20k damage and 5 buttons to 20k damage are not on the same level of cancer in Anet's eyes. The former should be allowed to stay apparently.

RIP gazelle

The buttons would probably factor in a little but this isn't really about buttons. It's what vambrace said. It's getting insta-downed without any reaction time that makes things less fun. People don't complain about death judgement itself but how players are exploiting gaining malice stacks off ambients to down players. It's the same thing here, you get downed before you can do anything. Just think about it, after you put in your hard work clearing a camp (possibly running through the entire BL to get to that camp) and you're happily sitting in the ring, you suddenly get downed from wtf was that. Now how is that any fun?

My only real frustration with the build (notably chrono enabling it) is that it can go go into distortion immediately after the burst if it wants to continue to follow-through or run away unscathed.Aside from these situations, such builds usually aren't that amazing. DP warrior/SoS trait ranger among others don't really need to be scared at all since the MW damage is multiple hits which means they can't be one-combo-killed. If anything, the more valid complaint is how the combo can work on nearly any build and still fairly safely chunk most people to like 25% while retaining full kit functionality, which is mostly just a result of frustrations yet again coming from chrono with s/sh allowing so much in terms of defenses.

Raw damage? An all-in glass power shatter mesmer easily has the best burst in the game, but it's probably one of the more mechanically-demanding kits to play with little margin for error. Basically, it iswhat old signet thief was before it was effectively removed from the game somewhat recently, except that they just had different rewards and different capacities of being able to outplay people in different types of encounters.

I don't mind that the damage exists at all. The stealth-burst nonsense is still nonsense, but I've been saying that even as an ex-thief for years. Unfortunately GW2 devs seem to like the concept of Build Wars on failed concepts more than anything else.

Is this the mesmer build where you get cc'd locked and burnt in 2 seconds? Fought a few today, where the elite well drop on me, and i was cc'd into obvilion and then ~22k burnt in less then 2 seconds. Granted i was on a glass SB, but i didnt even have time to pop SoS (and i was paying attention), which is kinda crappy .

@EvilSardine.9635 said:

@Hiraldo.7954 said:

@EvilSardine.9635 said:I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

That is... not even close to being most of the burst lol. Thats like 4/6k damage max.

So anyone who's played mesmer at all can continuum split -> mirror blade/blink/mind stab/daze mantra or f2 (all at the same time) -> mirror images -> f1 shatter, all within the duration of a 0 clone CS? Because that's the basic chrono oneshot combo.

Funny, I recall a thread today calling anyone who could pull that off a macro user, but according to you anybody can do it no problem. Hmm.

I got also one shotted be a mesmer today. So we have 1Shot Mesmers & 1Shot Waeavers...hmm =( An both is worse because mesmer comes out of stealth so u don't see them and weaver blinks in + it is AoE.

I have a shortlist of issues with the potency of roaming Mesmer builds, but power damage is not on that list.While the damage may seem instantaneous, there are usually several attacks in quick succession involved with that burst. Therefore Endure Pain will work most of the time.

~ Kovu